Comments on: Quickies: Zire, T615C, Edge, KB11, Palmtop User

Rumor: Someone who works for a national retailer says that one of his company's product placement reports shows there will be a replacement for the Palm m105 that will be called the Palm Zire. The model number will be P80707US. Rumors about the Zire have been circulating for weeks. -Ed

Circuit City is selling its remaining stock of Sony T615Cs for $250 while supplies last. -UZI4U182

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Palm Zire

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 9:27:24 AM #
But what's the announcement date? Will it have 8MB? Will it have a grayscale screen? Will it come with Documents To Go 5?
RE: Palm Zire
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 9:33:54 AM #
dude, chill out. If Ed. had the information from a reliable source, I'm sure it would have been included in the article. I hardly think that somehow he "forgot"
RE: Palm Zire
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 9:41:39 AM #
If you follow the link in that article, you'll find the answers to most of your questions.
RE: Palm Zire
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 10:19:50 AM #
No, it won't have any of those things, but it will come with a nice wind chime to hang at your front door, and a limited number of people will get a set of 6 steak knives with the Palm logo on the handle. (oh yeah, the handle will reflect 65,000 colors)
RE: Palm Zire
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 3:44:21 PM #
I would imagine it'll be the exact specs of the m105, but with a different casing and an idiotic new name.

This qualifies as "new?"

RE: Palm Zire
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 3:47:19 PM #
Another Palm with a different name and look.
Reminds me of the III series.

RE: Palm Zire
Token User @ 9/9/2002 5:08:40 PM #
To the previous two "I.M. Anonymous"' - you are either trolling or not reading PIC on a regular basis. Follow the rumours link ... the Zire is "rumoured" to be a departure from the hardware interface of others Palms - especially with only 2 app buttons. But, all the information we currently have is only rumour and should be taken with a grain of salt.

RE: Palm Zire
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 4:04:02 PM #
>> "To the previous two "I.M. Anonymous"' - you are either trolling or not reading PIC on a regular basis. Follow the rumours link ... the Zire is "rumoured" to be a departure from the hardware interface of others Palms - especially with only 2 app buttons." <<

Maybe YOU'RE not reading. The Zire is rumored to use OS4.1. The only major change is the 2 buttons, which is hardly monumental.

This isn't trolling, it's simply honesty: the Zire, if the rumors are correct, is lame. Just lower the price of the m105, for crying out loud.

RE: Palm Zire
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 11:06:34 PM #
First of all, the m105 costs quite a bit more for Palm to manufacture than the Zire will/does. It was never intended to be sold for such low margins as it is being sold for now (i've seen them for $50 after rebate lately).

The matter of whether or not it is a better buy than the Zire (of course it IS a better deal) is irrelevant--Palm needs a more profitable low end model.

Secondly, the loss of 2 hardware buttons _is_ huge. Just yesterday I was in Best Buy and OMax, looking at the pre-packaged Palm software available for retail sale. The overwhelming majority of those titles were games of the action vatiety (Serious sam, jetfighter, Bejeweled, Palm Games Pack etc) that a teen/20 something user targeted by the Zire would buy. ALmost all of these games require the use of all hardware buttons. How are you going to explain to new entry level customers that they have to patch all of those cool game demos beamed to them by their m105 owning friends?

Palmtop User Magazine

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 9:32:51 AM #
Don't you mean Pocket PC User magazine???????

RE: Palmtop User Magazine
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 10:03:16 AM #
No he means PalmTop User Magazine. A good one too. It is interesting to see the point of view of Great Britain/Europe.
RE: Palmtop User Magazine
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 10:31:47 AM #
Palmtop and PalmUser magazines were combined into a single publication calles Palmtop User.
Palmtop Publications stated that this was done following an overwhelming number of request's. Everyone else thinks it's to cut costs!
I have a subscription to this magazine since early this year. So far I've received (the last) PalmUser with a lot of already outdated news and now I have Issue 1 of the 'new' palmtop user magazine with news for PalmOS PDA user, Pocket PC users and Symbian/Psion users. Interesting, but not what I expected and the internet gives me the news directly. This magazine is already outdated the moment I receive it. So I will be cancelling my subscription.
Greetings from Holland, Roel.
RE: Palmtop User Magazine
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 11:56:46 AM #
Pocket PC content or not, Palmtop User still beats the pants off any other PDA mag, bar none. And they're about the only ones who do REALLY good, truly unbiased reviews. Just look at their review of Fossil PDA watch. They gave it 1.5 stars, and Handheld Computing gave it FIVE stars for christ sake! I know which review I'd believe. Sure news can't ever be the strong point of a bimonthly rag, but their reviews ROCK!

Happy days - Davy

RE: Palmtop User Magazine
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 7:08:04 PM #
Unbiased reviews. I vote for that one! It's a lot less commercialized than the US offerings which tend to promote their advertiser's products in reviews and awards.
RE: Palmtop User Magazine
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 4:50:24 AM #
Be thankful that you even receive your copies. I subscribed to Palm User for the past couple of years and had to call on two occasions due to non arrival of the magazine. On the last occasion, I was accused of having received the magazine but phoning for a second copy! The last issue of my subscription never turned up at all. Apparently, the German postal service is to blame, even though I never have any problems with any of my other subscriptions.

Personally, I won't be renewing my subscription!

Steve Hyde

Visor Edge

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 11:13:15 AM #
I saw the Visor Edge being cleared out at a local Walmart for $99 - that's a deal...
RE: Visor Edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 11:15:34 AM #
I still think the Edge is way too overpriced.
And the T615? Good handheld, but why so much money if its on clearance now? 250 bucks is still alot to spend on a discontinued model.
About the Zire: Looks like a rather simple, yet unefficient approach from Palm.
RE: Visor Edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 12:40:30 PM #
Just got a 615 for $244 at Fry's. I love the sharpness
of the screen. However the color seperation is so bad,
it makes the m130 look good. And this is advertised as
a 16-bit screen! Better call the lawyers :-) Honestly,
on the new game that I'm developing, I couldn't tell
the difference between light gray and light yellow. On
my IIIc, these were clearly different. I'm keeping it
however, because It's great for testing... And that's
not a stylus, that's a toothpick :-)


RE: Visor Edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 2:12:22 PM #
Shoot, y'all, I saw the Edge on clearance a few monts ago for *$50* at a not-so-local walmart in the sticks of NC. They also had the Neo there for $99 and an ancient looking Platinum for $50 as well. I picked up a Prism recharge cradle, some extra styli, and a carry case all for a fraction of the MSRP. I'd have gotten the Edge as a gift for my dad had I not just gotten him a Prism a few days before.

I still wish they had released the Edge with 16 megs of ram and at a lower initial retail price...

RE: Visor Edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 3:46:23 PM #
Lower initial price is right.

The Edge simply was priced too high from the beginning, and even as it slowly came down, it was still too high.

$170 is too high. Try $125 and it'll be about right.

RE: Visor Edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 3:49:01 PM #
The Edge is the best PDA I have ever had. Slim and light are the big pluses. Too bad they didn't come in color but the monochrome screen is sharp and great outdoors/indoors.

Price was high initially but I got mine for a good price when they were clearing up locally. I can't even find these around anymore. Better than anything that Palm brings out now and that Zire sh?te.

RE: Visor Edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 4:08:09 PM #
Yup, I always felt HS could have transitioned from the Visor line to the Treo line a little more smoothly. Had they either released a cheaper Edge with 16 megs from the get go, or at least released an Edge II with color/more ram, they could have lived up to the hoopla surrounding the product's launch.

Such an Edge, along with a Prism II (more ram, better battery life) could have really helped replentish Handspring's coffers and permitted them to have a more stable, gradual rollout of the Treo communicators and slowly wean everyone off Springboards, instead of just dumping them almost overnight.

What I don't get is how Handspring keeps manazing to "resurrect" discontinued models-first the Platinum, and now the Edge! I theorize they are receiving unsold new units from retailers and trying to clear them out, not at a rock bottom price, but by trying to make everyone think (via the too high price) this is still an "in demand" item that they are not about to orphan.

The m100 series was/is a success despite its screen and formfactor because of its rock bottom price. The Edge was a flop solely because of its price (well, the lack of color didn't help either) despite what is still a nice formfactor,screen, and build quality.

Oh well, nothing we can do at this point...

RE: Visor Edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 4:07:16 PM #
>> "The Edge is the best PDA I have ever had." <<

Maybe so, but I'll bet your hardly EVER use the Springboard sled, do you?

RE: Visor Edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 4:35:20 PM #
I echo the previous poster's sentiments about transitioning more smoothly from the springboard era to the SD era. Had the Edge originally come with OS4, a SD slot and 16 megs of ram, it'd have been quite well-received (IMHO).

Then a revamped Prism would have sent the Springboard platform off in style and there would have been a much clearer transition period from the Visors to the Edge to the Treos.

More people complain about the futility of hte springboard sled for the Edge than anything else...but that lovely form factor could have kept its svelte lines by merely including an SD/MMC slot--it's not like Handspring didn't already know at that time that they were going to drop support for the Springboard...

Palm Dire ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 1:04:48 PM #
... is what this product should be called. Entering into the low-end PDA market - already crowded with Sharp and a hundred other Far Eastern manufacturers - does not bode well for Palm Inc. The sooner Palm dies the better. Hopefully Sony can pick up the limbs of PalmSource and take strategic leadership of the Palm OS, just as they have thus far in innovation of Palm compatible hardware.
RE: Palm Dire ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 1:40:51 PM #
You aren't the first person to think super cheap organizers will doom Palm and you, and everyone else, have always been wrong before. Go grab a copy of "Piloting Palm" (the book on the creation of Palm) and look on page 141. On this page is the reaction from the person in charge of organizers at a Best Buy when the Palm (called the Pilot back then) was first shown to him. He said $20 organizers would doom it from the start. "You guys are dead." 6 years and at least 25 millions handhelds later, I think we know who was correct.
RE: Palm Dire ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 2:40:27 PM #
>" "You guys are dead." 6 years and at least 25 millions handhelds later, I think we know who was correct. "

Do we? Palm is at .78/share.

RE: Palm Dire ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 6:50:05 PM #
Palm has over $270 million in cash on hand(not including other assets)!! Translation - the stock is under priced / over-corrected. The base of the company is solid - ie. 3Com still owns the majority of stock and its own Chairman of the Board is now again the CEO of Palm. That is why its stock is up over 60% in last month. You can swear at it, while I keep making money off of it right now. I believe that this penny stock is fixed for about a 400% jump by the end of the quarter.
RE: Palm Dire ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 7:49:34 PM #
>"the stock is under priced"

OK, dude. Put your money where your mouth is - Back up the truck and load up on PALM!!!

At .78, you can get 40,000 shares for a little over $30K.

RE: Palm Dire ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 10:06:30 PM #
LOL. Yeah. Put your $$ where your mouth is dude.
RE: Palm Dire ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 9:52:59 AM #
Please stop with all the "Sony Will Save The World" BS! Sony makes some very nice Palm OS pda's, big deal. Palm is not going anywhere, and for that matter neither is Handspring or HandEra. If you truely were interested in having the best best pda possible you would realize that having all of these companies around is the best thing. Do you really think that Sony would have come with the cool machines they have if Palm, HS and HandEra were not around? The original poster of this thread is an idiot.
RE: Palm Dire ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 5:27:06 PM #
Knock on. Just remember when the share hits $2 that you were tipped on how to double your money instead of ridiculous predictions of death. Buyout? Perhaps. But death is BLIND STUPIDITY.

What's the Palm Xire?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 3:38:08 PM #
on the palmsource trademarks page there is a Palm Xire. I've never heard of this one...
RE: What's the Palm Xire?
Moosecat @ 9/9/2002 4:33:11 PM #
Very interesting (and a good catch!). I wonder if the rumor-providers have been misspelling the name...

(See about half-way down this page:

RE: What's the Palm Xire?
Moosecat @ 9/9/2002 4:36:05 PM #
Oh, I see that Zire (and Tungsten and Veld) are on that list too... So much for my misspelling theory ...

RE: What's the Palm Xire?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 4:43:45 PM #
Probably a typo like
"Thinairapps, Thirairapps & T Design"

Thir vs Thin

RE: What's the Palm Xire?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 5:03:27 PM #
I can't believe that these are simply typos as the trademark claims can be very tricky and if they claim the "xire" as being their trademark, when it's really not, then they can catch some legal heat. Besides who's typing this page over at palmsource? It should be their lawyers and I think they would be more diligent than this.


cyruski @ 9/9/2002 3:52:25 PM #
I kept hoping that it would be a codename but... It is ugly! Palm Zire... Tungsten is even more uglier. It's been 3 years since they changed to the new name scheme and they're changing again.

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 6:57:02 PM #
Yeah ugly like "T615c" / "br549" or those other brands.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 7:16:52 PM #
br549? t655c are nice names. but zire tungsten? tungsten means the lights are brownish and not plain white. well yeah it really fits palms backlight.

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 9:09:58 PM #
IIRC, it hasn't even been 3 years since they began the "mx" and "ix" nomenclature scheme, since the m100 was the first unit to follow that plan...

SuccessWizard @ 9/9/2002 9:37:49 PM #
Palmsource has "Tungsten" trademarked. Does that mean that the makers of the periodic chart are now in violation?

Palm has both Xire and Zire in their list of properties.

Mike Lohsl
Palm & ACT! Advisor

[I]Proud user of a Palm i705 Mobile Office and Kyocera 6035 phone[/I]

N473 @ 9/9/2002 10:02:07 PM #

Youngster! If you grew up in the early 80s and watched a certain show with Roy and Minnie Pearl, then you'd get it...


I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 4:10:25 PM #
Of course, the requisite slamming of the Sony naming system in response to the slamming of Palm's new names.

Let's face it. Most people still refer to them as "Palm Pilots." Those of us who have a little more savvy refer to them as "Palms." I refer to my Sony as a "Clie." (BTW, that's Clee-AY, not CLEE or CLEE-Oh, as I've heard it from the more ignorant folk.) Lots of people simply refer to a "PDA."

I have yet to hear anyone talk about their Vx in conversation--or their T615C, their m515, or their Edge. What counts is the PRIMARY name for the product--Palm, Clie, Visor, Treo, etc.

So complain about the stupidity of the name Tungsten all you want, but please realize it'll almost NEVER see actual use in conversation.


UZI4U182 @ 9/9/2002 9:28:28 PM #
thanks ed =)

Palm OS apps, news, reviews and such

Handspring dumping?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 1:21:57 AM #
With the Visor's sellin so cheap. Sould they get busted for Price Dumping? I swear they are selling at below their cost.
RE: Handspring dumping?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 1:25:20 AM #
no it's never under their cost, PDA's never that expensive to make ... I thikn HP calculators cost more to make than Palm's PDA.
RE: Handspring dumping?
cdvd @ 9/11/2002 2:31:57 AM #
> Sould they get busted for Price Dumping?

I think there are different rules for what you can do with manufactured pieces after you stop making new ones. If there aren't, every electronics maker is breaking the law. It isn't just Handpring, people are selling the T615C for $250, which is probably below the production cost.

> I thikn HP calculators cost more to make than Palm's PDA.

This is not just incorrect, it is so obviously incorrect as to be silly.

Zire instead of m105

PIC mobile user @ 9/10/2002 8:45:41 AM #
Now there is a bad idea! The Zire doesn't look so cool anyway.

You're all so worryied about the name!

Rolando @ 9/10/2002 9:18:06 AM #
"Would someone hand me my P80707US?"

"Oh no! I left my P80707US in the car again!"

"My P80707US is like my second brain."

I think you have nothing to worry about.


T615 vs m515 dilemma

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 11:23:54 PM #
Can some1 share their views on pro and cons of
either pda? I sold my year old m500 yesterday--spur of the moment--got really good $$ for it. Now I need a new color pda. I think my life will be less organized and fun without one. Both have the best form factor out there, however T615 is cheaper now. Any suggestions?


RE: T615 vs m515 dilemma
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 5:36:01 PM #
I just got a 615 after looking around. My observations:

615 (~$250) Washed out color with really bad color seperation (it can make a m130 look good). Extremely sharp display (320x320).
515 (~$400) Sharp, well defined colors, but low resolution.
655 (~$400) Same as 615, but with excellent color.
NR70 (~$550) Best screen, hi-res, big, built in KB.
SJ30 (~$300) Best combination of price, color quality, and resolution (320x320).
visor prism (~$270 new, ~$180 reconditioned) practically the same as the 515, but bigger.
m130 (~$245) Not a bad device, but look for a reconditioned prism first.
Treo 90 (~$295) By far the most portable. Average screen quality with slow refresh (pretty much the same as a m130).

Personally I think the real choices are:
515: for that executive look,
SJ30: great screen w/ competitive price,
treo 90: portability.

I was looking for a testing device, which is the only reason I got a 615.
(As an aside, I personally *hate* the toothpick like stylus that comes w/ the sony clies. You might want to try it yourself first.)


Palm Zire Relaunch -> 07.10.2002

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/12/2002 6:23:00 AM #
Today we recieved a offical message from our management. It says that the Palm Zire will be released at 07.10.2002 worldwide. In Germany there will be 20.000 Units for the relaunch.

from Germany



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