Comments on: Palm Offering Full Refund to m130 Owners

(Obviously if you don't have the game or you feel upset about missing 10% of your colour range, take them up on their offer.)

TAKE THE FREAKING MONEY..DUH

Than if you really like your Palm, go buy another one, that can be purchased CHEAPER, and with a brand new and fresh WARRANTY.

Some people just don't see an opportunity if you sholve a million bucks up their ***... They'd still insist that working for 8 bucks an hour is the best thing.

Laters! Smarten Up!

1) I think I paidtoo much for a 12 bit screen PDA so I get a refund
2) When I go for shopping I see a M130 selling for less and I think that price justify for a 12 bit screen PDA so I buy it.

I don't see any dishonest in both action 1 and 2 ..
but I do see dishonest in giving customers false information.

Why don't you go steal a handheld with a 16 bit screen? Or you could rob a few people and use their money to buy a handheld. It shouldn't bother you. You already made it clear you don't have any morals.

e.g. they could say this monitor can run 1024X768 at 100Hz .. but turns out it runs at 75Hz, and I am pretty sure your eyes can't count that the monitor refreshes 75 times every second. So CRT makers should all jsut say their CRT can refresh at 1000Hz, becasue human eyes can't count so fast, hay I can say whatever Hertz I want!

Sometimes something your eyes can't "see" doesn't mean it doesn't affect the user experience.

:-)

I wish I had a m130 'cause then I'd get SimCity for nix! D'oh! Silly me bought a m515 instead... oh well...

I have to side with the folks who say that if not for all of the bad publicity and threat of a class action lawsuit, this buy-back offer would probably not exist.

Furthermore, I think Palm would do well to reword the "58,000 color combination" nonsense and come clean. Otherwise, they could get bitten twice with this. Imagine, someone takes the free copy of SimCity then when someone else threatens a class action because the device isn't capable of 58,000 colors, but only 4096, they have to buy back the device or offer some other extra piece of software. Just bite the bullet and state it clearly as follows: "The Palm m130 can display 4096 colors but is able to play 16-bit applications." If they're afraid that 4096 colors sounds too limited, then say "thousands of colors" (which they're doing in some places), but drop the 58,000 color combinations nonsense, please.

Scott

It's unfortunate that it won't be perfect for everyone, since not everyone wants the game (a $25-40 credit for software or accessory would have been better), but still... If you're that unhappy, take the refund.

Rolando

I also wanted to address this issue of the class action suit that was filed. I doubt strongly that this had any real impact on Palm's decision. I say this because a class action suit does not begin in the same way every other suit begins, that is, the aggrieved party commences a suit against the party they believe has wronged them. A class action suit is filed and before the suit can proceed the court must certify the class or group of individuals that the suit proports to represent. The court can easily (and quite often does) decline to certify a class for various reasons including that the class (group) of people are not clearly defined or the harm caused to the group is too vague and not actionable (these are just examples). Thus the suit filed on this matter could not reasonably be considered viable at this early stage because it has several significant hurdles to overcome before Palm really needed to take it seriously.

I should add that now that Palm has taken action to address the harm, the difficulty of pursuing a class action suit is even greater because Palm can show that it has provided a remedy that is proportionate to the harm caused and that it has made diligent efforts to publish the remedy to the potential class.

More likely, the bad press was a big motivating factor. I also think that Palm is a fairly honest and above board company (despite this misrepresentation, which I chose to believe was accidental not intentional). In a time of revelations about companies inflating their bottom line for years on end, Palm has consistently been honest about its earnings (or lack thereof), financial difficulties and missteps. Considering that they are, by far, the leader in the market, it would have been easy to lie about profits and inflate stock value but they did not and took the lumps that came along with it. So, in my opinion, Palm generally does do the right thing (definitely not the most innovative or cutting edge thing) and I always cheer for people and companies that try to do the right thing.

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin

***

Some people on this board are just plain evil and YOU certainly count among them.

Have a nice day and watch the traffic on the way to work.

I don't own a M130. I don't own a colour PDA.

This is a deal between M130 owners and Palm, not Sony NR70V owners and Palm, or M515 owners and Palm.

The people that need to be satisfied with the deal are the ones that own the M130. Everyone else should just shut up and sit down, and let the parties involved decide if it is a good deal or not.

Not that I feel that the color problem with the m130 was that bad, I mean, one could look at the quality of the screen and decide how well or badly it displayed colors before one bought it regardless of what the "specifications" stated. But how does getting a free GAME compensate for this mistake?"

To answer your question.. it's simple..

There are two kinds of people. Those who realised Palm was screwing the people, LIED, and really got away with it, (hence the refund) and those who have their heads so far in the clouds and thinks "Oh, Golly, a Game" and belives that a game will fix all the problems in the world!.

That's a rather simplistic view. Simply because an individual is not bothered by having only 4,096 colors as opposed to 65,536 colors, does not mean that said individual is not an intelligent person. For many people, the number of colors is not important. What is important is the usefulness of the handheld overall. I own an m505 which I am very happy with, despite complaints that many people have made about its clarity and brightness. My wife owns an m130 and she notices very little difference between it and any other color handheld, and furthermore, she does not care, because it does everything she wants it to. Palm screwed up and are taking actions to rectify in a reasonable fashion. My wife is not going to return her handheld for a refund, because she is happy with the m130. Frankly, she doesn't even care that they are offering a free game! It's not that important. That's just our take on the situation.

Regards,

Jeff

How about this I know what you want to say deep down inside

"Yeah, there are two kinds of people. The people who actually bought m130's and Sony employees that post here."

And here's the reality

"Yeah, there are two kinds of people. The people who actually bought m130's and Palm Inc. employees that post here."

We go from discussing the Palm M130 colour "issue", cuz that's all it is obviously, and it suddenly turns into someone pulling sony out of their *** and accusing that person of bashing them.... That's spectacular!!! Are you a psychic there buddy? Cuz you would have to be to pull that sony garbage out of the air. Geez... Now I remember why I stopped coming here....

The logic of this statement eludes me.

Do you also believe that if there were no plumbers, doctors, carpenters, soldiers, etc. (all professions you call on when you have a problem) that no one would ever need one?

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin

I represent the legal trademark holder of the "Spirit of Umoja" phrase which you have repeatedly used on this forum. My client has instructed me to file suit against you for trademark infringement. You will be personally served tomorrow a.m. Please have your lawyer call me regarding this matter.

A scumsucking lawyer

Dear Raji:

I represent a client who was injured while viewing the "What's Wrong With This Picture?" item posted on your website. While viewing this prank, he fell backwards in his chair and his head struck a hard table top, fracturing his C2 vertebre and causing instant quadrepelegic paralysis.

We feel you are responsible for this injury and are seeking damages including but not limted to medical expenses, lost future income, and pain and suffering. Please have your lawyer contact me immediately.

A scumsucking lawyer

If they get more lawsuits then it will not be long before Palm needs to read, on m515's ebook reader, "Chapter 11"

Read the news: Honest mistake. I doubt Palm is that stupid to lie about something that they will not be able to get away with in the long run.

You can find all the info on Palm's Support page:
www.palm.com/support/
Look for "Palm™ m130 Color Update Program" under Support News
(Sorry, the actual link is HUGE)

I disagree. The refund will have minimal effect. Considering only 8 people have called Palm to ask about this, the refunds will only be about $2400. :) Joking aside, only a few thousand people will ask for refunds. Even if 3,000 people want a refund, that's less than a million dollars. Last quarter, Palm had $165 million in revenues and it has $297 million in cash and short-term investments.

Actually you can find them for $120.00 at Fry's Electronics... and I saw at least 25 on the shelf.

A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.

Admitting an honest mistake and taking genuine steps to deal with the situation is bound to help with customer loyalty. The clear message from this is: buy a Palm and the company will stand by you; buy something else and you are on your own.

Mistakes like this should not be allowed to happen in the first place. But dealing with mistakes in such a forthright manner can only enhance customer loyalty. If the choice comes down to buying an over-hyped unit with a hi-res screen and buying a quality unit from reputable company, I know which I would choose.

Your pro-Microsoft bias is showing.

HP handled it exactly the same way Palm did... except HP did it much slower. HP's class action suit went to court before HP gave in and offered refunds. The suit that was filed against Palm never had a chance to get to court because Palm offered the full refund before it had a chance.

And Palm's screw up was with just the m130. HP used false advertising to sell three models for over a year before it got caught.

Tell me again how HP did it right?

What we do instead is make ignorant statements like "Humans can see millions of colors," then we utter the emphatic statement, "you're wrong." That alone should be enough for PIC posters to prove our point.

"I'm right, you're wrong." That's the motto of the classic PIC poster. Facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts, man. They only mess up our preconceived notions.

What we really want is
1) to claim that humans can see millions of colors. This allows us even more bitching rights about
2) the fact that the m130 only really displays 12-bit color. Then we feel more justified in claiming that
3) Palm should do even more than they've done. It's not enough that they should offer a free game or a refund; they should give us
4) free copies of WordSmith, Docs-to-Go, and Bejeweled, plus $150 cash.

Facts? Maturity? Logic? If you're on the PIC boards, you're in the wrong place for those antiquated ideals.

but, i defy anyone to count how many color they can "see" on the M130.

// az --

how about writting a small program which gradually changes the color of the screen at slight intervals and have the user press a button when they "see" a color change.

might be funny to see out of 100 shades the palm can display, how many people can see

No. Palm uses both frame-rate control [what you describe] and plain old side-by-side dithering to get 58 thousand-whatever colors on the m130.

See this article: www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=4049

And look under the section "How the m130 displays colors."

palm doesn't lose here - look, free PR on palm infocenter. just think about all the good things people are thinking about palm now - bringing up that good will aspect of marketing/distribution.

its just business.

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

I don't condone this sort of abuse, but let's be clear here. The initial "abuse" was by Palm in deceptively marketing this device. Hopefully some lost $$$ due to this buy-back will teach them not to try this again next time while not hurting them so bad financially that there will still be a "next time."

Scott

There was also a suggestion posted earlier that people trade in their m130, get the $300, then go buy another m130 at $250. That's abuse.

> As for adiri's statement that there's nothing out there that is the equivalent
> of the m130 at that price point, he, regrettably is incorrect.

ardiri didn't say that, useybird did. You are correct about there being other $300 models tho.

The m130 packaging explicitly said "65k colors". That, as has been revealed, was factually false. Palm has apologized for that, and is offering the (few) people who care a refund or free toy. HP did the same thing when they were caught with their pants down on the exact same issue.

If you equate the m505 brightness issue with this issue, then I can just as easily equate it with the Sony T665c having such awful buttons that the product is unusable. YOU may find it usable, but I can't stand it. Hundreds of thousands of m505 users found their devices usable as well. Deal.

--
This post is ROT26 encrypted. Reading it is a violation of the DMCA

And who wants to bet a million dollars Sony will be the first to come up with a Palm OS 5 Clie?

Perhaps you might like to queue up for a free brain from god.

Of course Sony will be the first to come up with a Palm OS 5 Clie! Sony is the only company that makes the Clie.

But, I think Palm will be the first to come out with a Palm OS 5 PDA.

Chances are, if you have a good unit, it never will give you any major problems.

Aside from the USB hotsync software problem (now rectified apparently), the rest of the problems were all with quality control. Some were good, some were bad, some were dim, some were brighter. I replaced mine because I needed more RAM and my own 505 was having problems.

My wife will not let her M505 go. It ran perfect from day one, always hotsyncs, and the screen is the same brightness as the M515 on low. I offered to upgrade it but she refused. She does not need the additional RAM, and would miss the backlit graffiti.

Do you see the difference here? There really is no use or logic comparing the m505 and m130. You bought the m505, you accepted it as it was, didn't return it when you saw the "dim" screen, so just let it go already.

My $.02

Let me guess...Bill O'Reilly? Rush Limbaugh? What an outrageous, and off-base, claim.

What?!?! Bwahahahaha!! Dude, your grasp on reality is very, very weak. Most newspapers, magazines, etc. are so pro-Microsoft, its a national tragedy. When Bill Gates sneezes, its on the front page of the New York Times. Anti-Microsoft, my foot.

Hogwash. It's a lower-cost device so of course it uses some lower cost components. It was never advertized as 16-bit color, just 65k colors. It is obvious that Palm intended for it to support more than 12-bit, 4096 colors since they: 1. developed it such that it could work in 16-bit mode for 16-bit apps; and 2. actually implemented dithering such that it could display more "color combinations" (as they call it) to represent those 16-bit values. If Palm actually wanted to provide just a 12-bit 4096 color device, they could have done it for less money and less effort.

Hah! The Jornada didn't fail, but when HP merged, they decided to call it a "HP Ipaq". Because the Ipaq was more successful.

It wasn't because the jornada failed...

Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

Why should we have to pay the shipping cost to Palm?

Will Palm refund the price of the extended warranty that I purchased with my M130?

Why does it take 8-10 weeks for Palm to mail me a check that they can print up AS SOON AS THEY RECEIVE MY PALM?

If I live outside of the US, do I have to ship my Palm TO the US?

I don't believe that I should have to pay shipping of my M130 to Palm as part of this deal. It means that I'm STILL LOSING MONEY ON THEIR FALSE ADVERTISING!

I doubt that Palm will refund my extended warranty at $35, which means that when I throw in shipping to a US address, my costs will be somewhere in the $70 range. This is how much money I will lose in shipping my M130 back to palm. That is almost 1/4 of the purchase price.

Why does Palm have to have my money for an additional 8-10 weeks after they receive my M130? Isn't it considered reasonable to assume that they can mail the check the VERY NEXT DAY?

For most people, they're better off just taking the free game. Simcity was a VGA 256 color game, so it should work just fine on the M130 with its ability to display 4096 colors. I personally want a full refund of all expenses incurred with my return of my M130.

Tom Murdoch
Palm M130 Owner

The same people with Clie's that have nothing better to do than post here.

Some people are just natural whiners. How about if they buy all m130 employees a new house, shut down the company, and shoot all the employees? Would that make you happy?

Reminds me of a story I heard. I don't know if its true. I was told there was someone at one on the big department stores in NY part of whose job it is to get fired. If there is some whiney customer kicking up a scene, the manager would call this employee in and say "This person is responsible" and then turn to the employee and say "You're fired. Go clean out your desk." The employee would go off looking dejected and the customer would be satisfied. Of course, the employee would go back upsairs and get back to work, ready to do it all again the next time.

Ah, but that would mean actually DOING something. When you have no life, it's much easier to go BMW (Bitch Moan Whine) on a message board, especially when you've got the emotional maturity of a 6-year-old.

Try looking at a 32-bit photo on a 16-bit screen (on your computer set the display to 16-bit) and it will look almost the same as 32-bit, because our eyes can't really tell much of a difference (but there is a difference, albeit slight).
Now, if you can set your computer to display that same photo in 12-bit color (using photoshop or a similar tool), it will look like it has less color, it will also look washed out and will be less sharp (in focus).
Now try and display a 16-bit photo in 12-bit color, and it will look almost the same as the 32-bit one in 12-bit.

Now reduce the resolution of the screen by almost 31 times, and display that same photo on your Palm M130 which due to the lower resolution will make it look less sharp and in focus, but it will also magnify the poor dithering that was required to make this 32-bit or even 16-bit photo fit in the 12-bit display screen.

If the M130 displayed the colors advertised, you should only really see the resolution reduction, and less clarity due to there being less pixels. Instead, you see less clarity due to there being less pixels, as well as pixels being MERGED to make it appear like there is more colors, which reduces your resolution almost in half again which reduces the clarity even more.

Tom Murdoch
Palm M130 Owner

Apoligies and refunds are great, but at least get back to us within several days... I'm dying to verify the refund to buy another unit

>Time for a dose of reality. It has been exactly one business day since you filled out the form. One. You can't count Saturday or Sunday. They aren't business days.

Didn't know that servers adhered to 'business day' rules, maybe there's secret midgets pulling levers in that computer case, and they don't work until tuesday... which is today. And no email yet.

I spoke with palm australia and they could upgrade me, but for a full refund I had to deal with the site.

Hammer