Comments on: Master Thief 3D Coming Soon

Cascata Games is working on a first-person shooter called Master Thief based on the Deity 3D engine, which the company is licensing from MobileWizardry. Players of Master Thief will need to not just be quick with the trigger finger, but also use code-breaking skills, special weapons, and a lock pick to be successful. Additional level packs for the game will also be available. So far, Cascata has only said the game will be available this Fall, and hasn't yet released a price.
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Deity...

kozmo @ 9/9/2002 11:07:22 AM #
... was cool, but it was only in grayscale... I was waiting for colour version and finally here it comes :)

RE: Deity...
ChipKerchner @ 9/11/2002 8:14:35 PM #
You may be interested in knowing I added ULTRA mode to the list of quality modes (aka Low, High, Super and now Ultra). Ultra runs in 320x320 resolution and has twice the definition as Super. It looks totally awesome!!! And quiet fast (about 30 FPS on the ARM units and improving). This is a feature for those who will be upgrading to the OS5/ARM units.

Ivo has told me that he has lots of cool features in the game now and plans even more for the Deity3D II engine. Stay tuned!

Chip Kerchner
Co-Founder MobileWizardry
chip_kerchner@mobilewizardry.com
chip@ardiri.com

Bad strategy

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 11:17:41 AM #
I think they should have waited for OS5 to have taken full advantage of the processor.
bad move...
RE: Bad strategy
ardiri @ 9/9/2002 11:18:28 AM #
bad strategy? how so?

the application currently runs on OS5 - and, it is much faster than pre OS5 units :)

it just happens to be that we support pre-5.0 devices as well (although, better performance at lower quality). so, it will run on existing devices AND future devices will more balls (MHz). this is one of the first complex applications to have sucessfully be running in native modes in 68k (motorolla), ARM and x86 (intel).

we have been a bit quiet lately, most of the efforts to get this OS5 compatible were in porting the 68k assembly to C to be recompiled on multiple architectures. lets not forget the complexities with the development of armlets :)

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

RE: Bad strategy
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 11:29:42 AM #
Problem is Aaron, that users don't care about the devlopment process or how long it takes - they just want to see the end result (and get it for free in most cases).

But you are right, building armlets is a right pain in the .

Codewarrior, GCC and VisualStudio - never thought I'd see the day when 3 environments were required to build a single PRC!! Okay you can prolly do it all with GCC, but why the hell would ya!? :-P

RE: Bad strategy
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 11:29:42 AM #
The OS5 version of this product will run a several times the frame rate as a pre-OS5 unit. Plus you have the option to run the game in "SUPER" quality mode, which is really NICE (sprites and textures are displayed at twice the resolution as HIGH). We are still working on a lot of other cool features to add to the game including ones that will make you want to purchase a OS5 unit.

Chip Kerchner
Co-Founder Mobilewizardry
chip_kerchner@mobilewizardry.com
chip@ardiri.com

RE: Bad strategy
ardiri @ 9/9/2002 11:35:34 AM #
    Codewarrior, GCC and VisualStudio - never thought I'd see the day when 3 environments were required to build a single PRC!! Okay you can prolly do it all with GCC, but why the hell would ya!? :-P

um :) we use gcc all the way *g*, build with a single "make" command as well :P

m68k - m68k-palmos-gcc
arm - arm-elf-gcc
x86 - cygwin's gcc

IDE's? eww.. *g* bash + vim all the way!


// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

RE: Bad strategy
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 11:42:33 AM #
Why wouldn't they want to support the nearly 25 million loyal pre OS5 Palm users? I, for one, am glad to see some really killer apps for Palm. This game is going to ROCK! I WANT! I WANT!
RE: Bad strategy
big_raji @ 9/9/2002 11:56:02 AM #
How do you think the performance will be on a 66mhz Clie? Overclocked to 99mhz?

Will it be playable at the highest quality setting?

Any testing done on one of these yet?

Thanks
-Raj

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Bad strategy
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 12:00:13 PM #
Right now the game plays at above 10 FPS for high quality mode and above 15 FPS for low quality (testing done on a 33 MHZ N610C Clie - no overclocking required). 66 MHZ Sony will be "nearly twice" that.

Sorry, you need a OS5 device for SUPER mode. :P

Chip Kerchner

RE: Bad strategy
ardiri @ 9/9/2002 12:02:01 PM #
if only we had a beta testing program *g*

but seriously, the game is sufficient with the HIGH quality setting, and, it'll run fine on the sony NR70 at a decent speed. LOW setting if for slower units, while, SUPER has really been targeted for ARM units.

of course, you will be able to have SUPER quality on a 16Mhz palm - but, hey, it'll be slow *g* but, not as slow as you'd think. at slower speeds - how will you have your multiplayer capabilities *hint* :P [for deity engine]

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

RE: Bad strategy
bcombee @ 9/9/2002 12:33:43 PM #
Why three development environments?

You can merge the CodeWarrior for Palm OS (68K) and CodeWarrior for Windows (Win32 x86) toolsets into one IDE, and our ARMlet tools will be part of the V9 release, so you could have all versions building from one project file. <GRIN>

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: Bad strategy
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 1:36:00 PM #
When are they going to port QuakeII to PALM? It's an old game come on. Somebody?
RE: Bad strategy
Foo Fighter @ 9/9/2002 2:19:14 PM #
> "When are they going to port QuakeII to PALM?"

When Palm develops a REAL OS. This isn't a flame, its just that under the current architecture, a piece of software as advanced as Quake is next to impossible under the current set of APIs. The graphics libraries are WAY too complex for PalmOS to handle. The file(s) footprint alone would never even fit onto a Palm organizer. You need a dedicated 3D engine that's a heck of a lot more powerful than MobileWizardry's Deity...with all due respect to the talented folks over there. And even if, or when, some clever developer finds a way to port Quake to PalmOS...you can't bet your bottom dollar it's not going to run on legacy m68k hardware.

Perhaps OS6 will make this dream possible.

RE: Bad strategy
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 9:35:57 PM #
One thing I do miss coming from an iPAQ is that the Palm OS really stinks at gaming -- there are very few games even worth considering -- but OS6 might make Palm somewhat competitive against the PPC. This is where Palm's weakness is most evident -- multimedia (or lack thereof) 33 MHz or 66 MHz can't cut the mustard on hi-res 3D rendering. Add to that the palm button layout stinks for gaming (game pad required -- if you're lucky enough to have one made for your device).
RE: Bad strategy
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 1:34:39 AM #
Ben said:

>Why three development environments?

>You can merge the CodeWarrior for Palm OS (68K) and >CodeWarrior for Windows (Win32 x86) toolsets into one >IDE, and our ARMlet tools will be part of the V9 >release, so you could have all versions building from >one project file.

Well I already own VS, and don't own CW for Windows...! Plus you haven't got V9 out the door yet Ben. I'm building this stuff today, not in 3 months time... :-)

RE: Bad strategy
ardiri @ 9/10/2002 3:43:45 AM #
> "When are they going to port QuakeII to PALM?"

porting something like this will take some time to port to the PalmOS - once you understand the limitations of the platform. we have already been approached by some third parties who have the license to various "3D games" on handheld computers to do ports - it is something we are considering.

we did Deity3D as a challenge. its a custom built 3D engine specific to what we want - and, we have optimized it for our needs. you cannot compare such engines to Doom/Quake.

PalmOS 5+ brings ARM processors, similar to those of the iPAQ (and, maybe even faster). file sizes are an issue, but, thats what expansion cards are for, as for graphics? where is the problem? sure, you dont have the same architecture that exists on the PC, but, it doesn't say anything is impossible. there is no standard mechanism for hardware page flipping etc - so, from the start you'll have a double buffering issue.

we are happy Deity3D still runs on 68k :) it'll just run faster and have more features on arm and future devices.



// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

RE: Bad strategy
ardiri @ 9/10/2002 3:49:34 AM #
> I'm building this stuff today, not in 3 months time... :-)

gcc :)

here are some helpers:

http://prc-tools.sourceforge.net/
http://www.ardiri.com/arm-elf-gcc.HOWTO
http://www.cygwin.com/

i cannot find the reference to tell you how to create DLL files with cygwin, but, i did find it a while back *g* it wasn't too bad once you knew how to do it.


// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

Web site?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 11:17:48 AM #
I've tried a few times to get to the Master Thief web site - "no DNS entry". Hmm...

RE: Web site?
ardiri @ 9/9/2002 11:23:51 AM #
i have similar problems at home getting to the website, but, at work it is possible. Another link worthwhile would be our press release on the matter:

http://mobilewizardry.com/press/20020908-mastertheif.php

it has pretty much the same info as on cascata's website.


// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

RE: Web site?
Ed @ 9/9/2002 11:27:27 AM #
I think they are having website problems. I can't reach it either and I was on it just a couple hours ago while writing this article.

---
News Editor

Beep, beep, tap.

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 12:14:26 PM #
They should stick to space games. Palm OS has support for the best outer space games there is. After all, in space there really is no sound!
RE: Beep, beep, tap.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 12:17:46 PM #
Any chance of this including extra sounds for the enhanced speakers on the Sony T and NR series? And maybe an MP3 to play in the background?
RE: Beep, beep, tap.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 12:20:53 PM #
Or the better speakers on OS 5 models?
RE: Beep, beep, tap.
irwjager @ 9/9/2002 12:32:02 PM #
Digital sound FX and music is definately something we want to dig into in the near future. However, at this stage we are very keen on keeping the footprint very small (500k at most) to accomodate almost every Palm outthere (not to mention the upcoming $99 Zire model)
Bottom line is: not right now, but never say never. ;)

Ivo Jager
MT3D lead developer
ivo_jager@mobilewizardry.com

RE: Beep, beep, tap.
ahecht @ 9/9/2002 1:52:44 PM #
I just want to say that I think it's great that no less than 3 people from MobileWizardry have come here and answered our questions and addressed our comments. If only Sony or Palm did that!

RE: Beep, beep, tap.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 2:22:11 PM #
Yup, and don't forget Howard from Astraware popped in last week and promptly replied to the Astraware game update article. What a great gathering of talent we have had here on PIC in the past few days!

Ugh.

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 2:39:27 PM #
And here cometh the 3D generation for Palm... here cometh the Doom. Prior incarnations were mere Wolfensteins. I see the day where Microsoft will give up and buy Palm and slap a Start button on it.
RE: Ugh.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 4:57:31 PM #
>I see the day where Microsoft will give up and buy Palm and slap a Start button on it.

Yeah. Pocket PCs have increasing market share, Palms have decreasing marketshare and today Palm now has an app that looks like Doom from 1993 on my old 386 but without the sound.

How will MS ever compete?

RE: Ugh.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/9/2002 5:30:43 PM #
Did your old 386 ever run off of two double-A batteries?

BTW, This game does have sound...

Point is Palms have come a LONG WAY. And hopefully we'll see better games (and apps) every year.

RE: Ugh.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 2:56:09 AM #
Of course, PPC already had Doom quite a while back :) I remember playing it on my Casio PPC. Forgot the model number.
RE: Ugh.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 5:29:32 AM #
Sony will be the device for gaming since they've always embraced multimedia and faster processors.

1st person shooters always play awkward on PDAs simply due to the lack of a mouse and lousy button layout.

I'd be happy with a hi-rez+ Diablo clone (better than Kyle's Quest or Solskia).

RE: Ugh.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/10/2002 10:56:52 AM #
>Did your old 386 ever run off of two double-A batteries?

No. And neither does the Pocket PC which has had DOOM for a couple of years now - http://www.jimmysoftware.com/Software/Doom4CE/screenshots.asp

Free by the way. With real sound.

test

Qube @ 11/15/2002 2:08:28 AM #
test

[img=http://pf012.hypermart.net/misc/sig.jpg]
RE: test
Qube @ 11/15/2002 2:09:34 AM #
t

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