Comments on: Rumor: Pictures and Details of Palm's Upcoming Smartphone
A very reliable anonymous source has supplied much more information about this model, including some images. This device will have a 320 by 320 color screen and a built-in keyboard. Also, it will have a 4-way directional pad (a D-pad) with a Select button in the middle.
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RE: Is that a sliding keyboard covering the Graffiti area?
Ken
RE: Is that a sliding keyboard covering the Graffiti area?
I think it's very strange that a speaker/mic aren't built in.
Palm also better watchout for a lawsuit from RIM. Gee, they've got Oval Shaped keys on their keyboard.
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What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html
Is that a sliding keyboard, or...
Hmmmm....
sundance
RE: Is that a sliding keyboard covering the Graffiti area?
My main problem with this unit is that if you need to plug the headset in to talk, it's not going to be brilliantly useful for answering calls. Think I'll hold out for an OS5 machine with bluetooth built-in, and let it talk to my t68i.
No sliding keyboard
---
News Editor
RE: Is that a sliding keyboard covering the Graffiti area?
RE: Is that a sliding keyboard covering the Graffiti area?
Oh well, better luck next time...
RE: Is that a sliding keyboard covering the Graffiti area?
RE: Is that a sliding keyboard covering the Graffiti area?
RE: Is that a sliding keyboard covering the Graffiti area?
RE: Is that a sliding keyboard covering the Graffiti area?
RE: Is that a sliding keyboard covering the Graffiti area?
Blackberry Killer?
Of course,looking at the keyboard, I am sure that RIM will be suing Palm about next Tuesday. <G>
RE: Blackberry Killer?
Phil
RE: Blackberry Killer?
RE: Blackberry Killer?
Blackberry's software seamlessly interacts with Exchange, and the end users where I work at cannot tell whether I sent my email from my Blackberry, or if I sent it from my desk.
That's about where Blackberry's advantages end. Calendaring is about equal, with the edge going to the Palm world. Address book, notes, and tasks are way ahead of anything that the Blackberry could put out, and the Intellisync version that comes with the Blackberry is horrid.
Unless Palm comes out with something that works as good or better than the Blackberry Enterprise Server, the Tungsten W will never be a "Blackberry Killer"....
Will it replace my Blackberry?
My question ... will this smartphone be always-on like a BB and get email in real-time, will it HotSync wirelessly or just send mail and surf? Should I wait and get a Kyocera 7135 which is designed as a better phone but has a smaller screen. More devices are not making it easier, instead of combining everything I want, they come out with combinations that always leave out something.
RE: Will it replace my Blackberry?
RE: Blackberry Killer?
because of the gprs you can be connected 24/7. you just pay for the ammount of data, it varies from country to country and from operator to operator but it's like 50 to 1.5 euro/usd a MB ...
so for emails, wap and a little browsing it's okey ...
the speed is like dial-up ...
p.s. i personaly preffer having two different devices ... one palm and one cellphone ...
RE: Blackberry Killer?
--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Blackberry Killer?
Interfacing with Exchange is indeed hard. If you are stuck with Exchange, my condolences--you have a white elephant and you are paying dearly for it, whether you know it or not. One of the indications of that is the fact that you think that a handheld needs to do something extra-special to talk to your mailer.
Unlike interfacing with a proprietary PC program like Exchange, interfacing with a real standards-compliant enterprise mail server is not a hard problem.
RE: Blackberry Killer?
I think the recent spat of RIM suits are desperate corporate death spasms. [Disclaimer: I know, I know… People LOVE their RIMs and they will continue to use them for years to come]. They had an awesome solution and a three-year lead, but they didn’t take it anywhere. In fact, they almost *couldn’t* take it anywhere. They were stymied by the Mobitex network’s limitations and GPRS in the U.S. does not have the coverage to make a practical solution for those who travel (i.e., RIM’s prime customers). RIM should have developed towards 1xRTT initially rather than focusing on GPRS (maybe there is some practical reason for this, but I have not heard it). By the time either the GPRS networks come up to a usable level, or they get their 1xRTT solution going the field will be way too crowded. They’ve had a hard time maintaining a business on the 300k units they’ve sold to date, now imagine Good, Palm and Handspring picking off customers during a time when growth is not really taking off (stupid recession!). Alas, the clock is ticking for RIM unless they have something big up their sleeve.
RE: Blackberry Killer?
-cheers from Canada
Ed. Has the SD/MMC slot SDIO support?
Does one of your sources still stands with the info that maybe "every Palm would have integrated Bluetooth" in the future Ed?
A (GPRS-)Bluetooth-802.11 dual mode would be THE solution imho. Companies like Silicon Wave/Intersil (Blue802), Mobilian and others are working on it.
The sooner the better.
RE: Bluetooth Headset
Sony Designers
What were the Sony designers used for?
Brick
RE: Sony Designers
RE: Sony Designers
> OK, all the pic are out and I just have one question.
> What were the Sony designers used for?
I don't think this was the model that Sony designers helped work on. I believe it was the new ARM/OS5 Palm that you're referring to.
Second comment:
> The whole Sony designer thing is absolute FUD.
Uhm.. can you clarify? How could references to Sony designers who helped work on a Palm model be considered FUD?
Do you even know what FUD is?
Jim
RE: Sony Designers
1, It looks terrible
2, The keys look bad but I bet they work great (a D-pad! Alright!)
3, It looks like it was copied straight from the Treo blueprints.
In short, looks like RIM and Handspring will be suing Palm within days...
RE: Sony Designers
IT'S A PHONEY
RE: Sony Designers
RE: Sony Designers
RE: Sony Designers
What's Up With OS 4.1??
FWIW
DLM
RE: What's Up With OS 4.1??
Don't forget Palm hardware and Palm OS are now two totally seperate companies, so Palm the company can use whatever OS it deems necessary as it is no longer developing the OS.
RE: What's Up With OS 4.1??
RE: What's Up With OS 4.1??
It is already going to be a real trial to get the first Arm Palm devices glitch-free with reasonable battery-life. Adding integrated phone and network hardware only multiplies the problem. Battery-life in today's Smart-Phones already stink, so adding an Arm processor would be a real mistake.
I'm glad to see they thought this one through and stuck with a stable and energy-efficient processor for this phone. It would kill Palm if they tried to release something buggy with a short battery life.
Now, let's see. This is basically the Treo, but with a larger, high-resolution screen and built-in memory expansion. Perfect! Sign me up!
-------
James Sorenson
RE: What's Up With OS 4.1??
RE: What's Up With OS 4.1??
RE: What's Up With OS 4.1??
What's the point of PalmOS 5?
PalmOS 5 would not be a significant factor in my choice of handheld; OS 4.1 is cheaper and just as good for now.
RE: What's Up With OS 4.1??
Tungsten symbol is W for Wolfram
RE: Tungsten symbol is W for Wolfram
---
News Editor
heavy stone
RE: Tungsten symbol is W for Wolfram
Now that's funny. "Heavy stone" might also be translated as "brick." :)
Scott
Tungsten is the coil of metal in light bulbs
RE: Tungsten symbol is W for Wolfram
RE: Tungsten symbol is W for Wolfram
"However, if one ads Flourine or Xenon, or some other gasses, we can achieve thousands of color variations!"
Interesting! That's why the Tungsten line (even the smartphone) displays 320x320 in 16-bit colors. :)
This is my next cellphone, uh PDA also. :)
RE: Tungsten symbol is W for Wolfram
RE: Tungsten symbol is W for Wolfram
Is Tungsten a company or just than name of the model
The TT is a great unit but is Tungsten coming out with a TW?
Fugly
RE: Fugly
It's funny that all of you are so hung up on appearance. Are you really that shallow?
RE: Fugly
RE: Fugly
RE: Fugly
TSC
RE: Fugly
I never used the slot on the m505 much, w/o an mp3 player or other rich media format the 16 MB in a Treo is just fine for me. I'd like bluetooth, sure, but not sticking out of the unit.
RE: Fugly
The Kyocera is a Palm device made by a phone company, whereas this is a phone made by a Palm company. This will show through in the end, I think.
RE: Fugly
That thing is hideous. Is this a Halloween joke?
RE: Fugly
RE: Fugly
If you need a keyboard, install Silkyboard... that's what I'm going to do.
RE: Fugly
Looks OK, but not exciting
I'll never switch to PPC, but I sure would like to see Palm OS 5 in an mm02 XDA (aka T-Mobile PPC) form factor.
====
Boze
====
RE: Looks OK, but not exciting
RE: Looks OK, but not exciting
Now if you go to T-Mobile you can pay $400 for the same phone.
---
Sir Tez
Sir Tez
IT is a rough life
RE: Looks OK, but not exciting
RE: Looks OK, but not exciting
---
Sir-Tez
Sir Tez
IT is a rough life
RE: Looks OK, but not exciting
Over here in the EU you can get the T68m for free with a contractm while the T68i is still costing 100 eruos or so.
There are cheaper BT / GPRS solutions of course. The T39 and R520 are both old models that you should be able to get cheaply.
this is so going to
The Treo isn't selling well...
What are the advantages over TREO?
I hate fat phones and this has a bigger waist line than the TREO. I think TREO is the maximum I can carry and this thing, I don't care what pad it has, is not going to be hot PERIOD
Sony, please don't make this mistake and give me a good PDA to go with my T68i.
RE: The Treo isn't selling well...
The Treo isn't selling good because of the lack of high speed wireless networks. These are starting to come online and products that connect to them will start to sell better.
The powerful brandname "Palm" will also help. Most people have never heard of HandSpring.
RE: What are the advantages over TREO?
I'm with you though, I'll probably stick with an excellent PDA connected to an excellent phone via Bluetooth. Let's you have all the best in both worlds.
RE: What are the advantages over TREO?
RE: What are the advantages over TREO?
For Dutch Palm-users: http://www.palmclub.nl
RE: The Treo isn't selling well...
This a great data/voice connected PIM.
I just hope it's not any thicker than 0.5" or Palm should worry.
RE: The Treo isn't selling well...
RE: The Treo isn't selling well...
- GPRS
- use like regular mobile phone
- no SD slot
- no hi-res
Palm:
- GPRS
- has SD slot
- has hi-res
- requires headset
Pick your poison...
RE: The Treo isn't selling well...
The Treo is first and foremost a CELLPHONE with data capability. Clam shell design, ability to put it up to your ear and talk, and relatively small form factor to appeal to cellphone users that might want PDA functionality.
The Tungsten is designed to be a PDA with wireless data access, and oh yeah, it also does calling with an earpiece (much like the new RIM Blackberry device - except in colour, with more expandability, blah, blah, blah).
I am still leaning towards the Kyocera 7135, regardless of the lack of "full" keyboard - YVMV.
RE: The Treo isn't selling well...
The Tungsten W has the advantage of the bigger higer res screen and the SD slot.
The Treo has the better GPRS. The GPRS on the Treo is always on, even when the device is turned off - as soon as you turn it on your're connected and can hit a link in a browser and go there. With the Tungsten W you have to reconnet to the net every time you turn on, so it's not really always-on.
RE: The Treo isn't selling well...
RE: The Treo isn't selling well...
Very interesting info, if true. Where are you getting this from? The Treo isn't yet available with GPRS except in a few locales (the Middle East??) and the Tungsten isn't available yet period...
RE: What are the advantages over TREO?
Who is going to sue Palm?
RE: Who is going to sue Palm?
I highly doubt that Handspring and Palm will sue each other...it's possible that Handspring and Palm collaborated on some of the design specs....and borrowed heavily from each other.
RE: Who is going to sue Palm?
Here comes blackberry lawsuit!!
RE: Who is going to sue Palm?
oh... and the early Psion devices certainly had those small keyboards...
RE: Who is going to sue Palm?
Tungsten pics and info
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002Sep/bpd20020920016426.htm
RE: Tungsten pics and info
RE: Tungsten pics and info
RE: Tungsten pics and info
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=4192
Please continue your discussion of it there.
p.s. The earlier comment wasn't deleted; it was moved to an article where it was on topic.
----
News Editor
RE: Tungsten pics and info
--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: OS4.1? Are they nuts?
Given that the FCC approval process for wirless information device takes a long time, it's plausible, indeed very probable, that the development of this product began before the appropriate availability of OS5.
Where's the FCC filing.....
RE: Where's the FCC filing.....
---
News Editor
RE: Where's the FCC filing.....
RE: Where's the FCC filing.....
OMG !!! FCC TAKING OVER THE WORLD !!
RE: Where's the FCC filing.....
It's like the CE and UL ratings for electrical devices....get one and the other is easy to get.
RE: Where's the FCC filing.....
RE: Will it replace my Blackberry?
It seems like every device that comes out is missing one of my necessary features:
-Bluetooth or GPRS
-Hi-Res
-Integrated thumb-board (or soft graffiti)
-OS 5
The Tungsten T leaves out the thumb-board/SOFT graffiti, and the W leaves out OS 5!
====
Boze
====
RE: Will it replace my Blackberry?
It is on the front page will all of the info you could ever want and more.
No mic and speaker = no thanks
I couldn't believe that BlackBerry did that, and I really can't believe that Palm seems to be in the process of doing it (isn't Blackberry coming out with one that has a mic and speaker, thus realizing their initial mistake?).
I guess we'll see what happens....
RE: No mic and speaker = no thanks
Let's ease up on new products that aren't designed for certain applications. It's like talking about the m500 or Palm V and saying "No color, no thanks." -- they aren't designed for color.
If you want a mic and speaker I'm sure Handspring would love you business.
-Kevin Crossman
RE: No mic and speaker = no thanks
I think this is a major blunder. How much would it cost to put a mic and speaker, anyway?!
RE: No mic and speaker = no thanks
RE: No mic and speaker = no thanks
Agreed. While the phone part of whatever phone/PDA I'll end up buying is the least important part of the device for me, I do want it to be reasonably usable. The whole point of a device like this is for it to be one-piece. Don't need to mess with separate pieces (e.g. cell phone + PDA), cables, etc. Requiring a headset means you do have to mess with two separate pieces and a tangly cable between them. Yuck. I'd be okay with a required headset only if it were integrated into the unit and were on a retracting (and internally swallowed-up) cable.
"(isn't Blackberry coming out with one that has a mic and speaker, thus realizing their initial mistake?)"
Yeah, I believe that's right. The current GPRS version (the 5810) requires a headset, but the new iDEN model appears to have a mic and speaker.
RE: No mic and speaker = no thanks
So What Is The Veld?
Palm, You Ugly Thing!
Now it looks like Palm is out of the running too. This thing is even uglier than the Treo, the flip cover doesn prevent you from accidentally pressing the keys and I bet you would get less stares if you had your shoe by your ear than this contraption. Please Sony, Kyocera, hurry up (and make it a world phone while at it:-)
RE: Palm, You Ugly Thing!
---
"Make a date from the Palm of your hand." -Magazine article
RE: Palm, You Ugly Thing!
To each his own, but I like my friends less nerdy looking (and forget about getting a date with this Palm:-))
RE: Palm, You Ugly Thing!
RE: Palm, You Ugly Thing!
Pointless flip cover
Yeah, what the heck is the point of the flip cover if it doesn't cover the keys and doesn't have a speaker on the inside to hold up to your ear?
If it's just protecting the screen, you might as well just use a disposable screen protector for that.
It's like they're copying the Treo's form factor for marketing but not technical purposes.
RE: Palm, You Ugly Thing!
Oops, we put the mic and speaker on the Tungsten T!
Fair enough if they want to make you use the headphone jack, but then to go and include it in the T is just stupid.
RE: Oops, we put the mic and speaker on the Tungsten T!
RE: Oops, we put the mic and speaker on the Tungsten T!
someone hit Palm with an ugly stick AND a stupid stick! :)
RE: Oops, we put the mic and speaker on the Tungsten T!
Screen Brightness??
Let's hope the brightness slider on the Tungsten is at 25% in this picture.........
For the record, I too look at this as an EXCELLENT upgrade to the i700. It doesn't need to be a phone, so long as the price is right.
This thing will sell for around $300, right????
Ahem......hack.....cough......just joking, put your spears away.
This is coming to Canada
Tungsten W v.s. Treo v.s. Kyocera 7135
Currently, I have a VisorPhone.
Reasons why the Treo loses:
No memory slot. I travel for extended periods of time without being near my computer. I take A LOT of notes on my PDA. The thought of not being able to backup/restore while distant from home is horrifying. Also, the screen is low-resolution and WAY to small. I have to work with spreadsheets here, you know!
Reasons why the Kyocera loses:
I'm going to skip the whole GSM v.s. CDMA thing. Personally, I think it's mostly a holy war around here. At least it has memory expansion, and the MP3 player is a nice touch. The replaceable battery is a nice feature too. However, that screen is a deal-closer again. Tiny, and low resolution. The clamshell design makes it a pretty fat PDA, too. I have mixed feelings about the split graffiti pad. Looking at how much border there is around the screen, I think this phone is a lot bigger than most people think. True, it is only an ounce heavier than the Treo, but the dimensions are much larger.
Why the SmartPhone wins:
You know it's important to me: large, high-resolution, color screen, baby! If I'm going to surf the web, let's use a screen that can display more than one icon at a time. Email is now easy to read. Games are better, spreadsheets are easier, etc. This also has the needed memory expansion for backups, large files, and other devices. I like the keypad for email and documents, but that is just a personal preference. I think, like Handspring, they should consider making a graffiti version for the stylus-experts.
Now, about the size of the thing. It is already apparent in the picture that the thickness to width ratio of the Tungsten is much less than the Kyocera. Now, the Tungsten does have a larger screen, but it has a very thin border around the screen.
I think many will be surprised when they compare the size of the Tungsten to the Kyocera. The Tungsten is probably smaller than than they think.
I must admit, though, that requiring headphones is a bit of a pain. Oh well, the price you pay to save space. I am definately looking forward to seeing the Tungsten in person!
-------
James Sorenson
RE: Tungsten W v.s. Treo v.s. Kyocera 7135
Hopefully the Tungsten is exactly what you want and you'll love it! But making a blanket declaration that it is the winner is a rather self-centric view of the world. The winner will be the one that sells the most units (or simply stays in business!).
RE: Tungsten W v.s. Treo v.s. Kyocera 7135
I use the ear-piece already on my Visorphone, so the lack of a speaker doesn't really affect me.
My only true concern is that Palm is getting into the game a little late. At first I thought the hold-up was because they were going to try to squeeze an Arm processor into it. A lot of people who need this kind of device has probably already purchased a Treo (I would have if the dang thing had a memory slot). It should be interesting to see how sales go.
-------
James Sorenson
RE: Tungsten W v.s. Treo v.s. Kyocera 7135
RE: Tungsten W v.s. Treo v.s. Kyocera 7135
Well, I guess I'm a bit of a niche market. All I know is that I'm looking forward to a big color screen and not having to pull my VisorPhone module out every time I need to access my memory card. Compared to the brick I have now, the Tungsten W looks pretty sleek.
I'll let the market decide. Hopefully Palm at least breaks even with this one. Thanks for all your comments!
Jim
-------
James Sorenson
RE: Tungsten W v.s. Treo v.s. Kyocera 7135
Remember, it's a true clamsell design, and when closed it is thicker than the Treo... but when opened it's actually thinner (much like the Sony NR70).
But more important than thickness is width... and the 7135 is one of the narrowest Palm OS devices ever released. It's over a half inch narrower than my Palm Vx, which makes it quite comfortable to hold.
RE: Tungsten W v.s. Treo v.s. Kyocera 7135
If you're travelling somewhere with network coverage, you can always back up by FTP'ing files to an account somewhere. The lack of a memory slot seems like less of a problem for a communicator device vs. a "bare" PDA.
RE: Tungsten W v.s. Treo v.s. Kyocera 7135
Anyhow, I see that I'm the minority. Oh well. I still say the Tungsten W looks fine and has exactly what I need. Palm has nailed at least one customer, here.
-------
James Sorenson
RE: Keyboard !
RE: Keyboard !
(Self-confessed Palm Geek)
Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
Palm Inc. says european users like more the 2 device combination "palm with bluetoot" and "mobile phone". They are really funny. For high end unsers the treo 270 with color screen, which has been introduced last month in europe, was the first 1 device combination. So how to say we like something more than something we didnt have until now??
GPRS was introduced about november 2001 (and february 2002 for the biggest provider swisscom) in switzerland.
If you read the major differences between gprs and hscsd you will quickly see that you will need both!!!
Having a palm wiht build in gsm-modem makes you really unflexible concerning never technologies. It's like having a compact hifi-stereo-device with everything build in.
Both the treo and the new palm device don't have build in hscsd. If you have a device with bluetoot you are free to combine it with the newest communication technologie in form of a mobile phone like for ex. the ericsson T68 or T68i or the Nokia 6310 (European Model-Number) which both have gprs and hscsd (ericsson 3 channel and nokia 4 channel)
Comparison of the Technologies based ont prices of swisscom.
GPRS
----
*You stay always online and connected with the internet or email and only pay the downloades amount of bytes.
*Is billed by bytes. Each 10000 bytes cost USD 0.13 (If you downloaded more than 1 MB per month everything over that will cost the half).
*As this is neither a speech- nor a data-connection you are able to answer incoming calls at any time even when surfing.
*When a lot of users use the phone-network, gprs has lower priority than speech-calls or gsm-data-calls like hscsd. Gprs connections may then fall down in connection speed as channels are used for higher priority connections. GPRS connections may even be terminated completely. Therefore this is not the best solution for data-downloads!!
*Ideal for loading wap-info-pages of about 1000 bytes per page, while reading these pages or your email you don't spend money as connection time doesnt count on your bill!
HSCSD
-----
*Is billed by online-minutes. 1 minute = USD 0.14
*Within 1 minute on 9600 bps (GSM Standard) you get about 72000 bytes.
*With HSCSD 4 channel (Nokia) you get 3 times 9600 bps which means you get 216000 bytes within 1 minute. This means 216000 bytes for the same price as 10000 gprs bytes!!! This is clearly the cheaper solution for reading real web-pages on the palm (comparing to the thin wap-pages).
*Connection is quaranteed throug the provider (which is not the case with gprs).
*As you have a data-call connection you can't get incoming speech-calls as long as your data-connection is busy.
*Not recommendet for reading emails, as each minute is billed even if you don't download a byte!
As you can see, an as the swisscom provider says, you should have both options and choose for each situation if you connect via gprs or via hscsd.
Welcome in this happy and confusing new world of communication.
Greetings from Switzerland, Christian.
PS: By the way after hours of test's and hours of talks to the mobile provider and even after having bought connection setup-managers which provide modem-strings for the above mentioned mobile phone's to activate hscsd in the palm network-settings it seems, that the architekture of the actual palm models (m505, n770c) don't allow hscsd-data speeds neither with bluetooth nor with infra-red.
Searchin in dejanews.com showed, that others have the same problem. By now these threads show, no one has found a solution out of this (It works with ppc ipaq).
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
GPRS is a Telecom Network Technology
Bluetooth is a Wireless Technology
Bluetooth and GPRS makes a perfect fit.
http://uk.gsmbox.com/news/mobile_news/all/62707.gsmbox
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
All I wanted to show - as of my own experiences - is, that none of the actual available devices (neither the treo nor the here per rumor introduced palm model) have the required technologie build in there devices.
Therefore it'ts better to have a slim bluetooth palm together with a mobile-phone whichs adds the latest technologie than a bulky all in one modell where the communication technologie can't be changend.
GPRS / WAP
----------
This is the name how GPRS was introduced in Switzerland and other european countries. Up to this moment mobile phone users could download wap-pages (Wireless Application Protocol a sort of reduced web-pags for mobile phones) at about 1000 bytes per page with regular gsm data-communication method and connection speed of about 9600 bps. You had to pay the mentioned USD 0.14 per minute or sometimes the same price as for a speech-connection (which usually was much more). WAP therefore wasn't used very much.
With the introduction of GPRS (with the above mentioned price sheme) mobile-phone-providers wanted to give the abillity to download the small wap-pages at about USD 0.013 per page (1000 bytes per page). This make's it a good deal for palm-pqa's too. (you dan for ex. use a wap-email-client to read your emails in pieces of 1000 bytes and decide if you want to read the rest in the office or at home).
But with this gprs-price-modell you clearly go cheaper for every downloaded real web-page with the regular gsm-data connection (at 9600 bps) and the cost of USD 0.14 per connection minute. No one will use gprs for downloading palm apps (like it's possible with xiino) oder web-pages (using for ex. avantgo, xiino or handsprings web-browser for the palm). Each webpage uses much more bytes than a wap page. You can do that with your treo or the here mentioned tungsteen w. But you could do that for years this way.
HSCSD
-----
Having a model with build in hscsd (high speed circuit switched data) would allow you to get 2 times (ericsson) or 3 times of data for the same minute price.
As there is no palm-os modell available with this build in technologie, you could still get a pc-card-type II adapter put in on the back of your sony t-series or palm m5xx-series palm and buy a pc-card like the nokia-pc-card with hscsd. But probably this card doesn't know the stand-by mode of the palm. Letting you not beeing continuosly beeing online with gprs. I is rather probably that this combination will drain your batteries much more than any other solution.
As gprs is no real solution for real web-browsing or other more professional applications (it is mainly for wap-browsing or using palm pqa's consuming not too much bytes with the current price modells) as it was introduced in switzerland and other european countries, I suggest you get a palm model with build in bluetooth and combine with a mobile phone with the latest technologie build in. Anyway if you don't itend to buy a new palm every 6 month's or so, how will you keep pace with the change's on the mobile-market. As newer and cheaper technologies arise, with much higher data-transmission-speeds you are on the save side having the possibillity to connect via bluetooth to the latest cellphone. I your cellphone resides in your suit- or trousers-pocket or in your suitcase. Who will say if you have build in wireless technologie or not.
GPRS in Europe is no real solution for mobile professionals which download the usual amount of data as you use when you surf on websites, not with the current price model. The higher data-transmission-speed is of no big use. As you will have to use the usual gsm transmission speed of 9600 bps and regular gsm-data-connections to get the cheaper connections for the usual data.
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
I disagree completely! With GPRS on my Treo, surfing the Web is relatively fast. And using some unscientific benchmarks :-), I got speeds around 20-25Kbps - good enough to fetch my email, check web pages and even fetch some small Avantgo channels.
IMHO, GPRS is far superior for mobile professionals since it's always-on unlike HSCSD. It's great to have a email program running in the background!
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
You forgot to mention in which country you live and even more important what you pay for your gprs data connections.
In Switzerland you pay for 1 minute 4 channel hscsd at about 200000 downloaded bytes USD 0.14. Download the same data with gprs and you will pay USD 2.60 !! (USD 1.30, if you have already downloaded 1 MB within the same month. This might get you a really expensive hobby to use gprs as a mobile professional.
By the way, like I mentioned before, swisscom, the biggest mobile-provider of switzerland is suggesting to their customers to use hscsd for larger data. Because the data connection has a higher quality. I've been sitting in the train coming home from work (zürich to basel) and a lot of people were talking to there spouses using their cellular phones. No gprs connection was possible (in fact I was connected but I could download at all). But regular data connections with or without hscsd worked fine. Imagine you download a big webpage (usual webpages easily take more than 60000 bytes) or a avango channel and you will have to start again after half of download has been completet?
The swisscom-spokesperson clearly said, neither is the gprs connections-speed quaranteed nor is guaranteed, that the connection persists. For that reason they suggest to use regular gsm-data-connections with hscsd for these purposes (I should mention here that swisscom's service is very good. This employee called me on my own cellular phone and answerd my questions during 1 hour!).
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
Christian Stocker, c.stocker32@bluewin.ch
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
I live in Portugal. I pay 57€ per month that includes 20MB or around 2,85€/MB. It's not very cheap but it's much, much cheaper than HSCSD for the kinds of applications I use.
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
in austria you get for 30 euro 30MB and then you pay for every extra MB 1,5 euro so that's not so but ... i mean for palm+gprs phone to be connected via ssh, check emails i't just perfect and even for some browsing using palm (i use blazer, or even lynx/links on the remote machine)
to the topic hscsd vs. gprs from my point of view is gprs better because you can be online 24/7 and it's in that case far more cheaper compared to hscsd, and if i want samething to download while i'm in terain i do it via ssh on the remote machine ... but that are just my 4 cents (we have really high taxes in here :)
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
You sure about that? It was my understanding that only so-called "class A" GSM/GPRS devices support simultaneous voice and data, and currently no such devices exist.
RE: GPRS Always on
...
"GPRS... As this is neither a speech- nor a data-connection you are able to answer incoming calls at any time even when surfing."
"You sure about that? It was my understanding that only so-called "class A" GSM/GPRS devices support simultaneous voice and data, and currently no such devices exist." ...
Dear Dan, I do work in the Information Technologie, but I didn't ever think about "Class A GSM/GPRS devices". What I definitely know is that my Ericsson T68m lets me answer incoming calls or short-messages (sms) at any time while connected via gprs. There is a context-help menu letting me get back to the main menu or to the stand-by mode of the phone, when I'm connected. Each time I press the hang-up button the phone ask's me if I want to discontinue the current gprs-data-session. That's where I choose "NO". Because my mobile-provider (swisscom) is doing some kind of sum of my daily bill when I disconnect. If I stay online they do that only every 6 hours.
You should ask a treo-user, which has already got the gprs update (like one in this thread before). Because these devices stay always on.
When I connect my Clie to mobile-phone (either via bluetoot or via infrared) and the palm shut's of after the so set 3 minuts the gprs-connection is terminated auomatically. Letting my palm always on would drain the battery too much.
A usual gsm-data-connection (with or without hscsd) does not allow me to get other incoming calls (I didnt try what happenes if i park the connection, but I think the download will have to be started again).
Greetings from Switzerland, Christian.
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
"Class A phones can make full use of NOM 1 networks: they can use circuit-switched voice and GPRS data services at the same time. Class B phones can register circuit-switched voice and packet-switched data services at the same time but may only use one at a time. Should the user receive a call while on the internet, they can take the call and GPRS service will be suspended, resuming once the voice call is ended. Resuming GPRS service is much faster than re-establishing a data call. Class C phones can only register for packet-switched data or for circuit-switched voice services; if the user chooses GPRS, then they will be totally unavailable for GSM calls and reciprocally."
So you are indeed correct that you can receive incoming calls while using GPRS as long as your phone is class B or better. With class A you could actually have your data continue in the background while you were on your call.
I read on another page (can't give you the URL as that IE window has frozen) that SMS can be received during GPRS usage even on class C phones.
Anyway, I believe that _all_ CDMA 2000 1xRTT devices are the equivalent of class C GSM/GPRS devices, so that's a nice advantage of GPRS to know about. I believe this is supposed to be fixed in followups to 1xRTT.
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
Treo supports simultaneous voice and data.
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
No, I don't believe that's true. Do you have a reference for that? I understand the Treo's GPRS implementation to be a class B device -- that is, you can receive notification of an incoming voice call while using GPRS data, but to answer that call you must suspend your data transmission. You can't do both at the same time.
RE: Why better choose Bluetooth than build in GSM/GPRS
You are spot on. Just tried it on my GPRS enabled Treo. Whilst talking to my wife, I could not surf "You must disable the call first... bla bla"
Not that my wife is boring. Just testing out the GPRS... honest :)
Would you buy this thing as mobile replacement?
S#%!, My Phone's ringing!...
RE: S#%!, My Phone's ringing!...
Bluetooth Headphones?
Perhaps it's possible to buy a bluetooth headset for this new smartphone? Then, once you dial, the device could sit in your pocket while you chat on a handsfree headset.
Perhaps the Bluetooth/Palm OS 5 experts could shed some light on this theory...?
RE: Bluetooth Headphones?
FWIW, I'm currently using a m515, Ericsson T39 and a Bluetooth headset - it all works quite nicely together. So I'll probably go for the model T instead (does it come in black?!)
I got my BT headset from here (Australian site): http://www.pocketscience.com.au/bluetooth.asp
Dimension and weight?
Dual input for Tungsten w?
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