Comments on: Quickies: Sony NX-70V, PPC to Palm, Worms , NFL and SnapperMail

The Clie Users Club in Japan have posted some excellent pictures of the Sony CLIE NX-70V and the new accessories. -Brooks

Back2Palm is a website made by a former Pocket PC user, that switched back to the Palm OS. It is an informative site, and has some head to head comparissons of the Palm OS to PPC. -Roman Pedan

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NX looks vs. NR looks

ardee @ 10/6/2002 3:27:53 PM #
What are any obvious differences in looks between the NX and the NR?

RE: NX looks vs. NR looks
ardee @ 10/6/2002 3:30:09 PM #
Oops, I mean other than the thickness for the CF slot.

Are there any differences in the keyboard, buttons, screen, etc?

RE: NX looks vs. NR looks
Admin @ 10/6/2002 3:38:57 PM #
Most of the changes with the new NX series are in the software (Palm OS 5, high res+ apps, and the new sony launcher) and under the hood (ARM, voice rec, improved Camera) etc...
RE: NX looks vs. NR looks
tvoung @ 10/6/2002 4:39:37 PM #
The NX has a square looking cam lens and the NR has a circular one.

RE: NX looks vs. NR looks
Palm_Otaku @ 10/6/2002 8:36:02 PM #
Other than what is mentioned above, there's also the optional "gun-metal" grey finish, and a couple subtle ones: a "Recording" LED beside the power button and the Mic case openings.

- D

RE: NX looks vs. NR looks
msmasitti @ 10/6/2002 9:43:28 PM #
There isn't much done to this device from the NR - Sony has a killer design down, so most changes are more enhancements than anything else. I know this will be in my stocking for Xmas. :)

O/T Mod

disappointed with both of them

mj6798 @ 10/6/2002 3:39:31 PM #
Yes, the Sony Clies have great hardware. But that's despite PalmOS, not because of it--PalmOS has made it pretty hard for Sony and software vendors even to do something as simple as support a larger screen. The one thing that PalmOS has going for it is that it was specifically designed for handhelds and its basic applications work.

PocketPCs have mediocre screens and an operating system that isn't well adapted to handhelds.

For basic PDA functions, Palm handhelds are still by far the best handhelds out there, but given the limited hardware and software they used, they are way overpriced. If the handheld market were competitive, they'd be drive out of business by $50 alternatives. But nobody who isn't Palm compatible can get a foot down.

Where does that leave us? We need more alternatives. Let's hope Psion will re-enter the market, and let's hope there will be more Linux-based PDAs.

RE: disappointed with both of them
ardee @ 10/6/2002 5:48:25 PM #
It's not like Palm Inc. is making massive profits on these things. (I know because I am an impoverished shareholder.)

RE: disappointed with both of them
orb2069 @ 10/6/2002 10:43:07 PM #
PalmOS has made it pretty hard for Sony and software vendors even to do something as simple as support a larger screen.

Tradeoffs. There's only so many clock cycles to go around, particularly on a mobile system. Do we write the OS so that it is infintely expandable (And therefore contains a LOT of not-totally-necessary code), or do we write it so that it runs fast?

I don't think it's a case of the PalmOS 'Making it hard on vendors', it's a case of Palm looking at reality, and saying 'This is our target platform - Give us the best performance possible.' That means they diden't build in OS support for oversized color screens, garage door openers or MP3 players. It only supports what it was designed for.

If they wanted to 'Make it hard' on people, they could do stuff like Apple does, dumping most of it's internals under an NDA and force everone to code to their specs.

Instead they publish most of what they've done and all of the relevant interfaces, and provide support for third parties who want to work on it. Heck, they even take the third parties' contributions, standardize them and intergrate them into the OS sometimes. Hardly 'Making it hard', I'd say.

...they are way overpriced. If the handheld market were competitive, they'd be drive out of business by $50 alternatives.

There are, what, five or six companies making PalmOS PDA's? Seems like plenty of competition to me.

But nobody who isn't Palm compatible can get a foot down.

Not for lack of trying... The ones I can think of off the top of my head are the DaVinci(Royal), the Rex(Rolodex?), the eBookman(Franklin), and a few others that I can remember without actually recalling the names. That one with the pastel metallic cases and the voice recorder, for example.

I think that if somebody could come up with something cheaper, that worked better, they would have done it already - there's been plenty of attempts.

Oh, if you don't care about input methods, and are only using the thing as a datebook/Calculator, there's lots of stuff in the Sub-$50 market. Try 's offering - For $12, it really IS kinda nice. Phone/email book, Alarm clock, datebook, games, beaming, syncs from a computer database, even lets you download personalization screens.

But it's not going to replace my ex-gf's m100, much less my HE330, anytime soon.

RE: disappointed with both of them
Take1 @ 10/6/2002 11:18:42 PM #
I don't understand the mediocre screen jab at PPC. Yes it's not as nice as the NR-70 at 320 x 480 resolution, but I'd rather have 320 x 240 than 320 x 320. If Palm got with the times and made a 320 x 480 Tungsten, then PPC is running into some major competition. It would have done Palm and Sony a lot of good to agree on universal support of the 320 x 480 screen aspect ratio -- Palm will have to do it sooner or later, why not sooner?

I don't like the size of the NX series or the battery life. My NR-70 does just fine and could have benefited with a modem sled like the older models and a larger battery. A second MS slot would be far more advantageous than a bulky, crippled CF slot.

Price Cut on T665C

cypher76 @ 10/6/2002 4:46:40 PM #
Slightly off-topic, but when I followed the link to sonystyle for the NX70V, I noticed the price of the T665C is down to $350, and the T615C is no longer listed. It this new or did I just miss it before?
RE: Price Cut on T665C
UZI4U182 @ 10/6/2002 5:19:53 PM #
It's probably new. I just got a Circuit City flyer in the mail today saying the price was just cut back on the T665C to $348 after rebates.

--Devan-- | Email me:

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Proud owner of a Palm m100, Sony CLIÉ PEG-S320, and Sony CLIÉ PEG-SJ30!

RE: Price Cut on T665C
ardee @ 10/6/2002 5:50:20 PM #
It may be off topic, but I thank you for posting it! I have been waiting for this. Dell sells that model and with discounts, coupons, and free shipping, they often have the lowest price. But I was waiting for it to drop $50 list before buying.

Now that I'll buy a 665, anybody want to buy a used N760C cheap? ;-)

RE: Price Cut on T665C
cypher76 @ 10/6/2002 6:37:56 PM #
While the T665C looks compelling...I'd rather keep my N760C than get a T665C, regardless of cost. The battery life is the deal breaker for me. I use my Clié fairly heavy, listening to mp3's on the way to classes, taking notes, typing up homework, transferring project files in whatever computer lab I'm in (USB sync cable + MS Import + WindowsXP). I'd be afraid the battery of a T665C wouldn't survive a long day's use.
Also on a sidenote, I've noticed the headphone jack doesn't have that extra rectangular part (not sure the technical name, but its used by the control wand). While this may not be an issue for you, I'd really miss using the control wand, as I use the mp3 player function everyday.
This is just my opinion, but I'd wait to see how the battery life on whatever T-series form factor OS5 device Sony comes out with next.
RE: Price Cut on T665C
Palm_Otaku @ 10/6/2002 8:41:03 PM #
Hmm, we've seen Sony cut prices shortly before releasing a replacement. You don't suppose.....

- D

RE: Price Cut on T665C
ardee @ 10/8/2002 2:41:17 PM #
Dell hadn't lowered their prices on the T665C yet, but they are running a 2-day sale (15% off every peripheral), so I called them and they agreed to take the 15% off the _lower_ price. Bottom line: I'm getting a T665C delivered for a total of under $300!

I acknowledge the lower battery life as compared to my N760C, but the T665C's faster CPU and double RAM (and better IR) more than make up for that for me (I don't use the MP3 feature currently). Hint: doubling the CPU speed makes each chess program about 70 points stronger, which means a lot to a chess freak like me. :-)

Re: Palm Low-Cost Handheld Takes Aim at Scrap Paper

hotpaw4 @ 10/6/2002 9:25:34 PM #
The Technology section of has a Reuters news article on the Zire intorduction. One quote which gives a hint as to the true manufacturing costs of this device:

Palm CFO Judy Bruner: "This product was designed from the ground up to be very profitable at a low price."

Current gross margins on Palm products currently average around 31 percent.

RE: Re: Palm Low-Cost Handheld Takes Aim at Scrap Paper
peter167 @ 10/6/2002 9:44:16 PM #
Of course, it is very profitable. Give people 2 MB RAM but nothing else is for sure profitable. But who will buy it? The point of profit margin means nothing when the volume of the units is low.

Who would buy a SJ-20 at $200 if it only gives you 8MB RAM and no MS slot? The market determines the price, not the manufacturer. Who can say that Palm's units right now are not overpriced than any other models on the market (at least from the contents of the hardware)?

Lie is the future.

RE: Re: Palm Low-Cost Handheld Takes Aim at Scrap Paper
Take1 @ 10/6/2002 11:09:56 PM #
Wonder if Palm is shooting themselves in the foot with an ultra cheap device. Yes it will do basic PIM in low-res monochrome, but with the ultra-limited RAM, it reallly can't do a whole bunch of the really neat stuff Palms are able to do. eBooks will suck up quite a lot of space since there is no expansion and AvantGo is pretty much out of the question unless you limit yourself to 2 channels.

My NR-70 is unrecognizable from it's out-of-the-box state with YiShow, PowerJog, and a ton of hacks that are used through X-master. I suppose Palm expects the beginner to get a 'taste' of the Palm and then want to upgrade to be able to do more with hacks/programs. Don't know if that will entice or turn-off the newbie PDA user.

RE: Re: Palm Low-Cost Handheld Takes Aim at Scrap Paper
Kesh @ 10/6/2002 11:54:50 PM #
I think the Zire will do fairly well. It's aimed at the crowd who thinks Palms are neat, but won't spend $200 for an organizer (which is all they'd use it for). I'd say they'll get a good number of people interested in it right away, then drop the price around Christmastime. That'll make it attractive 'stocking stuffer' material.

Nice OS comparison

Tuckermaclain @ 10/7/2002 9:27:35 AM #
I never had a PPC and I don't care for the Windows platform. From hearing all the PPC advocates (trolls) in the past bashing Palm OS @PIC I always wondered if Palm was the way to go. Now I know it is. PPCs must be absolutely maddening to use if you believe what he says. Can't wait for the OS5 machines. On the lighter side, I really miss the entertaining converstions when we could post anonymously--people really said what they thought, and even at their rudest people were relatively civil. It's been really dry since the change. Can we go back?
RE: Nice OS comparison
Zuber @ 10/7/2002 10:15:57 AM #
I agree, you get a broader viewpoint when the forum is open to guests. If you get someone really pushing it, it should be possible to bar the IP address for a while or something.


RE: Nice OS comparison
Ce @ 10/7/2002 11:10:50 AM #
I didn't post on this forum for two reasons:

1. I couldn't stand the anonymous flaming, most of the time without any reason. They even flamed at people who didn't have English as their native language....and therefore made me:-)
2. A non-palm-opinion made you a troll, no matter how objective your opinion was. They never bothered to actualy read your post. "a troll is a troll and you never read posts of troll's"

RE: Nice OS comparison
rldunn @ 10/7/2002 1:03:54 PM #
I disagree, the comments were very often not civil and not relevant to the topic. I quit reading the comments before because it got so bad, and I've really appreciated the change!!

RE: Nice OS comparison
arielb @ 10/7/2002 8:46:25 PM #
I agree. i've had it to here with the anonymous posts

RE: Nice OS comparison
helf @ 10/8/2002 10:06:52 AM #
Me 2. It was really annoying having anon posting. Oh. And banning IP's won't work. I for one have a dynamic ip..You ban me..I wait 15mins and log back on :)


aviduser @ 10/7/2002 5:23:41 PM #
I tried it out & it is great. Will probably buy. I like it better than MultiMail.

RE: SnapperMail
Altema @ 10/8/2002 1:43:45 AM #
If they carry it out to do all it is supposed to do, it will be fantastic. In its beta form, the only document attachments it will handle are text and Word, and Word docs require Quickword. I have DTG and Wordsmith. Most of my attachmens are html and Excel, so this would not benefit me right now, but it looks like it will be exactly what I'm looking for when done as long as I don't have to buy ANOTHER office package. Wireless email w attachments is the way to go.

RE: SnapperMail
danger @ 10/8/2002 6:03:33 PM #
HTML is opened directly in Quickword. That probably doesn't help you with your combo of apps. I suggest writing to DataViz and BlueNomad and ask them to support the API.

The most impressive thing about apps that support SnapperMail's API is that they all inherit beaming support including files beamed from NON-PALM devices like a laptop or PocketPC. Anyone tried beaming a image from their MMS cellphone into JpegWatch Lite? That's cool.

NX Battery may not be that bad.

Zuber @ 10/7/2002 7:37:23 PM #
Just quoting from a headline on CliePlanet.

"spent over three hours checking out the NX70v unit taking pics, movies, voice recordings, making memos, editing photos, etc!!! More on the unit in an upcoming hands on review!"

From what I can make out, this is without being plugged into the mains and with a Wi-Fi card.

It's only a news brief, but that's the impression given. More when the review comes through I guess.

Check it out at

If it is not there anymore, it might be in the archive section.


RE: NX Battery may not be that bad.
Zuber @ 10/7/2002 7:44:40 PM #
Also, the Browser seams to have a Zoom mode that lets you see the whole page or just a section. Sounds interesting.




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