Comments on: Rumor: Hands on Pictures of the Palm Tungsten T

The Russian handheld website,, has obtained and published hands on pictures of the upcoming Palm Tungsten T. The pictures show the screen of the Tungsten T at various angles and a side by side comparison with a HP Journada 568. One noticeable change is, new default icons in the launcher screen.
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It's indeed that small

asiayeah @ 10/17/2002 2:38:01 AM #
The device is really compact when the graffiti area is not exposed! I wonder can the cover slides out itself automatically when the device is powered on?

The screen looks good as well.

RE: It's indeed that small
yOyOYoo @ 10/17/2002 2:59:29 AM #
yeah its very small, but NO virtual graffiti!!

that is my one complaint.

RE: It's indeed that small
hotpaw4 @ 10/17/2002 3:10:38 AM #
Don't forget that virtual graffiti would require a bigger backlight which would shorten battery life. I have a T615c, but I think I'm going to like replacing it with a smaller volume unit with hopefully much better battery life. And I can't wait to benchmark a few armlet code modules and see if they really run more than 20 times faster.
RE: It's indeed that small
Fly-By-Night @ 10/17/2002 5:46:00 AM #
Also, VG will require a physically bigger screen, so the sized of the Tungsten will always be the same size as when it is expanded. I for one would be willing to go without VG for the sake of a significantly smaller form factor.

Having said that, I am still waiting to see what Sony reveals next. I have yet to make up my mind which OS5 device to get, but the Tungsten is the current front runner!


RE: It's indeed that small
Khunbenja @ 10/17/2002 7:52:42 AM #
I totally agree with the argument of a smaller form factor. I recently traded in my 665 for a SJ 30. Some people say I'm mad. For me, I believe that a small form factor over rides the incremental speed of the 66 MH gained with the 665. Although the SJ30 does not have the bells & whistles, I find that MP3 and the other "stuff" is worth the giveup compared to the smaller form factor. Now, If Sony produces a new SJ series with an ARM based processor and vertual grafitti, and put a phone into it, people, I believe we would have the ultimate PDA. What do you think???

RE: It's indeed that small
Dennizlerim @ 10/17/2002 9:51:28 AM #
would definelty be a nice idea... although I would prefer a SD-Slot in my PalmOS phone

Just a thought

RE: It's indeed *NOT* that small
orev @ 10/17/2002 10:00:56 AM #
It's really not that small at all. Just take a ruler to an m515, and the dimensions are almost identical to the _closed_ dimensions of the TT. Open it must be as long at the Sony NR series.
RE: It's indeed that small
kempokaraterulz @ 10/17/2002 10:07:02 AM #
I wonder can the cover slides out itself automatically when the device is powered on?

That would be
1 anoying
2 a waste of battery
and 3 just another thibng to break. I dont like the idea of mving parts on the handheld anyway.

Im even leery about mem expassion becasue of the moving parts which is nothing compared to this.

Long live the "T" Series!

RE: It's indeed that small
Dennizlerim @ 10/17/2002 10:07:42 AM #
What did you expect? An inch less?
I mean compared to the m5xx series and the features that come with the new tungtsen, I would say it is small.
Even if it is as long as the NR series when extended, how often would you use graffiti? And would it be bad?
I mean everybody here seams to love the NR s, so where is the problem if something is as small as????

Just a thought

RE: It's indeed that small
SaabCaptain @ 10/17/2002 10:24:16 AM #
But is saving .1 in height (only when closed) worth getting .1 thicker than a m515, .2 thicker than a m500, Toshiba e330, or ViewSonic V35? Is it worth having more limited case options that will continue to make the unit thicker? We'll see... god knows I'll buy one, I buy 'em all. :-)

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: It's indeed that small
ganoe @ 10/17/2002 11:13:32 AM #
> I wonder can the cover slides out itself automatically
> when the device is powered on?

Why would you want it to do that? The whole reason I think the slider could be a nice feature is that I often use my PDA with no need for text input.

RE: It's indeed that small
rsc1000 @ 10/17/2002 11:21:38 AM #
>>It's really not that small at all. Just take a ruler to an m515, and the dimensions are almost identical to the _closed_ dimensions of the TT. Open it must be as long at the Sony NR series.

I admit i haven't measured the height of an m505 or m515 myself, but the dimensions i have seen list those units as 4.5 inches in height. Thats a difference of .4 inches between those units and the Tungsten T. The other thing here is that the Tungsten T has a D-Pad which is larger in circumferance than the buttons are (so it takes up more 'height') - thus, the sliding mechanism isn't here just to make it .4 inches smaller then the m series - its here to keep keep it from being .4 inches larger.

RE: It's indeed that small
orev @ 10/17/2002 12:03:39 PM #
Hmm.. I measured my m515 again, and you're right, it's about 4.5" tall. I don't know what happenned with that...

RE: It's indeed that small
asiayeah @ 10/17/2002 1:50:53 PM #
>> I wonder can the cover slides out itself automatically
>> when the device is powered on?

>Why would you want it to do that? The whole reason I >think the slider could be a nice feature is that I often >use my PDA with no need for text input.

Yes, but how often do one needs to tap on the "Home" or the "Menu" icon in the silk screen? I think Palm needs to provide a software or hardware button equivalent for those two functions, if one wants to use the PDA without sliding the cover out.

To slide the cover out, it may solves the battery issue by using a mechanical spring. Just a thought.


With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: It's indeed that small
a @ 10/17/2002 2:17:58 PM #
something i just realized looking at the pictures: the sliding cover would rip off any screen protector you put on the graffiti area. Right?

I love my Treo 90
RE: It's indeed that small
HandyMan @ 10/17/2002 3:01:50 PM #
Since when is the SJ30 smaller than the T665? It's just an illusion. Shorter, yes, but if you multiply the 3Ds the SJ30 takes up more volume than the T665.

From previous pictures it was difficult to tell what Tungstun T is like, size-wise. Now, looking at these photos it changes my mind about how successful this wil be. I'll wait to see it in person to make my final judgement, but it looks like Plam has got a winner here.

I'm Cli fan, but I like what PalmSolutions is doing. Built-in Bluetooth in a compact size. There may be better hardware out there but noone really has it all down to this size.

Palm IIIe -> Sony Cli T665C -> ???

RE: It's indeed that small
blue9 @ 10/17/2002 3:09:54 PM #
Good point, it seems we'd have to apply two protectors to it; doesn't look easy applying one to the graffiti area. But I think I'm gonna have to get one of these babies next year; imo, The smaller the better. I trade off between using graffiti and the virtual keyboard now and then when one becomes annoying to use. So having the retractable graffiti part is cool. Very compact on the carry, quick and easy for input (using the vk). The thumb controller which consolidates the up/down left/right into one is a plus too; gamer friendly :-)
RE: It's indeed that small
asiayeah @ 10/18/2002 4:02:55 AM #
Can the device be turned on by simplying sliding the cover out?


With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: It's indeed that small
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 1:37:17 PM #
It is quite small but isn't that what we want?

Email me about anything at
Current PDA:= Palm M130
by the way, Can someone buy me a TT?

New Stylus (...and what's the text on the back)

ScottP @ 10/17/2002 2:59:58 AM #
What's everyone's thoughts on the new 'expanding' stylus..? Anybody notice where this fits in to the Tungsten|T or that there appears to be no raised area for easily removing it as for other styli?

On Another Thread...
Hard to tell is this is a Tungsten|T or an Oslo, due to the blurring of the top right corner. But you can just about make out the words 'Bluetooth 1.1 Compliant' on the back [under the reset pin hole] from one of the images, but anybody else able to read the others ... what's it state under OMAP))? Nice to get a better idea of the sliding mechanism though.

Still, can't wait to get the chance to have a play with one in a store.

RE: New Stylus (...and what's the text on the back)
ScottP @ 10/17/2002 3:08:20 AM #
Oops - Just worked out it only says 'Texas Instruments Technology' under OMAP)) so nothing exciting there :( Need my eyes testing I guess.
RE: New Stylus (...and what's the text on the back)
umichboy @ 10/17/2002 3:39:46 AM #
Looks good. My Newton 110 has one and I like it.
RE: New Stylus (...and what's the text on the back)
Palmcicle @ 10/17/2002 3:52:26 AM #
The size of the new stylus looks great! It will surely make the sony stylus feel...well...inadequate IYKWIM.

Phew! Whats that smell!?! Did someone Zire in here? Buy Palm's only a nickle.
RE: New Stylus (...and what's the text on the back)
kzemach @ 10/17/2002 3:56:34 PM #
For those of us who've been around since the early days, you may remember the DIY stylus for the Old Palm pros, 5000s, etc by a guy named Eric Handy. He used a radio shack antenna and the tip of a regular stylus. I made one following his directions- you ended up with a stylus that fit perfectly in the slot, had a much nicer, heavier feel, and then extended to over a FOOT in length, so that you could make it a decent pencil size (6") or use it as a pointer.

Gosh, I miss the old days...

RE: New Stylus (...and what's the text on the back)
DDrake @ 10/17/2002 7:40:04 PM #
oh man, that stylus is going to be expensive if you lose it!

The Privilege of a 22Km Tombstone
RE: New Stylus (...and what's the text on the back)
JKingGrim @ 10/18/2002 3:02:12 PM #
Someone please give me a link to the pictures. I can't read Russian!

New apps

McMagnus @ 10/17/2002 3:08:41 AM #
Hmmm... so why couldn't them ruskies have scrolled down the application list?? :)

The ones missing, after Prefs alphabetically, would be Security, SMS, To Do List and Welcome. Those four would be enough to account for two more rows and that's what seems to be missing according to the scrollbar. There could be two more though.

I mean, it's supposed to "take full advantage" of the multimedia capabilities. But where's that mediaplayer??

RE: New apps
Ricky @ 10/17/2002 3:30:14 AM #
If there was no way to play media, why would they include a headphone jack? Just to replay your audio notes? hmm...

RE: New apps
Palmcicle @ 10/17/2002 4:03:34 AM #
"Ruskies"? :)
RE: New apps
MacBirdie @ 10/17/2002 5:45:59 AM #
Besides the Memo Pad and Note Pad, there will be also Voice Pad.
RE: New apps
tiger_bb @ 10/17/2002 5:50:14 AM #
for MP3 playing, according to my experience on the previous OSLO i played with, it needs a 3rd party software.... that means, user have to pay for their own MP3 player software. Will Winamp enter the market???

RE: New apps
asiayeah @ 10/17/2002 6:11:05 AM #
Winamp for Palm? That would be cool!

Would we be able to play mp3 in the background? I hope I can use my Palm while listening to the MP3.

With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: New apps
Dennizlerim @ 10/17/2002 9:54:53 AM #
Probably Palm will do it like they always do.
Put in the basic progs and thats it.
But as we all know, a week after release there will be tons of software and if I remember right, there will be flash for palm. So why not Winamp for Palm....

Lets dream

RE: New apps
JKingGrim @ 10/18/2002 3:37:32 PM #
Actually, I disagree. Palm always has bonus software. With the m515, you get Documents to Go, Avant Go, Chapura, Power One Graphing Calculator, and several other apps. It would make perfect sense to include a media player to help promote sales.

I wonder if Hand Zipper and Insider come with it too?

RE: New apps
washer @ 10/20/2002 12:56:05 AM #
iTunes for palm- that would be awsome!

RE: New apps
tooele @ 10/9/2004 11:13:08 AM #

RE: New apps
tooele @ 10/9/2004 6:12:37 PM #
my annoying little brother wrote the above comment and I don't know why he put it on such an old story. By the way the TT is way better than the TT5.


Ricky @ 10/17/2002 3:17:30 AM #
Well, this answers most of our questions.
-The stylus does telescope
-175Mhz processor (as opposed to 144)
-Headphone Jack
-Some more info on how it must expand
I'm sure there are quite a few points I have missed, it is getting rather late...

I ran the russian web page through Altavista-you can get some useful info off of that-is there anyone here who knows Russian and would be willing to translate it for us?

As to whether this is the Oslo or T,

"I do not know accurately, to what series it belongs.that whether of Oslo, the whether Tungsten, marking was absent.According to some signs/ criteria, most likely, this of Oslo, the prototype Of tungsten.But the design of the first pal6ma. under the administration Of palm OS 5.0 will change hardly."

RE: Pics
SaabCaptain @ 10/17/2002 10:41:22 AM #
Perhaps the Oslo prototype did have a 175 mHz processor but for release they decided to back down to a 144 mHz unit on the Tungsten T? This was a Oslo prototype shown, not the Tungsten T.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Pics
JKingGrim @ 10/18/2002 3:42:24 PM #
Although the stylus telescopes, is that as far as it goes?

Small unit big stylus!!

Palmcicle @ 10/17/2002 3:47:21 AM #
That stylus looks GREAT! The unit is wonderfully COMPACT! This thing has Armani suit pocket written all over it! I am starting to feel better about this machine.

Phew! Whats that smell!?! Did someone Zire in here? Buy Palm's only a nickle.

Tungsten or Oslo?

pauleyc @ 10/17/2002 3:31:52 AM #
Hm, it's rather the Oslo prototype - one of the pictures shows signs of alteration, with a grey box over the place where the logo should be. That's were Oslo prototypes had their serial numbers, right? Also, the text more or less states that it's an Oslo.

My Russian isn't what it used to be years ago, but here's a brief translation / summary of features:
- metallic casing
- 16 MB installed, available only 14 MB (hm?)
- a non-covered SD slot
- Bluetooth and IR
- headphone jack
- scroller w. button, allows changing between categories (that would be a new feature, I think)
- I'm not sure, but the author suggests that, while the screen is not bad, the resolution is not
- no new applications, except for the Voice Recorder SW.


Plastic or metal case?

Palmcicle @ 10/17/2002 3:59:56 AM #
Any thoughts as to whether this thing has a plastic case? Or, is it metal?

Phew! Whats that smell!?! Did someone Zire in here? Buy Palm's only a nickle.
RE: Plastic or metal case?
IanJD @ 10/17/2002 4:28:28 AM #
The back view design makes me think it's metal, in common with the recent high end Palms. The sliding mechanism also looks much more robust than I'd anticipated.

RE: Plastic or metal case?
mrscarey @ 10/17/2002 8:41:37 AM #
My rudimentary Russian knowledge allows me to say that the article appears to say that the "body is made of aluminium"
( )


palmist and visionary

RE: Plastic or metal case?
devildoc @ 10/17/2002 3:50:25 PM #

Answer: Plastic

= looks like

The article has been /.ed so I can't go back and retranslate the whole article, but if I remember correctly, in a later paragraph they state that it isn't metal.

Interesting to see what kind of cases are made for it.

Zuber @ 10/17/2002 5:04:13 AM #
With the sliding mechanism, making a fully enclosed case will be tricky. I wonder what the case manufacturers will come up with.


RE: Interesting to see what kind of cases are made for it.
pauleyc @ 10/17/2002 5:16:37 AM #
Maybe they will choose the easy option, a case for an open Tungsten?

RE: Interesting to see what kind of cases are made for it.
robnet @ 10/17/2002 10:39:35 AM #
A sliding case? ;)

RE: Interesting to see what kind of cases are made for it.
c_blue @ 10/17/2002 11:15:03 AM #
I have a sliding case from Rhinosking. It won't work.

buy maybe one of this would.

it's not a case, but it will give you aluminum protection for the creen


Talking about Russia...

pdangel @ 10/17/2002 5:34:01 AM #

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

RE: Talking about Russia...
stupidnewpolicy @ 10/17/2002 11:43:39 AM #
There are two types of people.

Those who arbitrarily place everyone into two groups, and those who don't.


RE: Talking about Russia...
iJITSU @ 10/17/2002 2:06:57 PM #
you of course have just placed all people into two groups yourself, "ones who place other into two groups" and "ones that don't" thus commiting the same foul. i'm assuming you did that for humor's sake. If not, oh the irony.


gemikon @ 10/17/2002 5:48:35 AM #
Can we finally figure out if tungsten can play mp3?
I mean in 10 days that its going to be out do you think that we will be able straight away buy a 128mb sd card copy there 30.. mp3s and listen to them easily with the tung? Do we know if there is a media player in tungsten?
RE: mp3??
asiayeah @ 10/17/2002 6:08:15 AM #
If an mp3 player is not built-in, I am sure lots of 3rd party applications will be targeting at this market. Is there any mp3 player out there for Palm that uses the ARM processor?

With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: mp3??
Dennizlerim @ 10/17/2002 9:59:07 AM #
I dunno 'bout one, but I hope that Nullsoft will cope with that problem, allthough I don't like Winamp3.... but I guess thats another story....

RE: mp3??
Foo Fighter @ 10/17/2002 2:58:24 PM #
Uh..guys, just because this device has a headphone jack, and third party developers can create audio apps for it doesn't mean it can produce stereo quality MP3 music. This may not be much of a multimedia device at all, otherwise Palm would have supplied the software for it.

RE: mp3??
SaabCaptain @ 10/17/2002 6:17:56 PM #
I would suspect that all the OS 5 units will be able to play decent MP3 audio but an aftermarket program will be needed, hopefully some free programs show up. That said while I am very thankful Palm has finally embraced the future with modern processors and a new OS kernel, with this unit they are taking multimedia only half seriously. With most satisifed with PIM performance on OS 4.1 and the slow Dragonball processors (fast with OS 4.1 obviously) you have to assume the point of OS 5 is to open up the possibility of MULTIMEDIA for the first time on the Palm platform. Video/Music/Voice/Modern Games. The fact that their unit priced $250-300 more than some Pocket PC units which INCLUDE MP3 players, video players etc. without the built in softwear to get a start with music etc. is very disappointing.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: mp3??
somas1 @ 10/17/2002 7:06:41 PM #
I don't want to play mp3s. I want to be able to use the smallest fastest compression codec available and am annoyed that sonys nx is using mp3s and atrac instead of ogg vorbis

Thisis a joke

antny @ 10/17/2002 6:27:27 AM #
I guess this device is Palms answer to Sonys "Virtual Grafiti" This thing is ugly. The display comparison is a joke. Comparing it to a year old HP 56x series? Who is kidding who. So far, the ONLY hope Palm has of succeeding is Sony. And the price... 649 ... You can get a new fully loaded Pocket PC for 250 from Viewsonic and Dell (in about a month). 16 mb RAM ? Wasnt xscale supposed to break that AT barrier ?
RE: This is a joke
pauleyc @ 10/17/2002 6:49:56 AM #
Here are my thoughts:
- VG - it is really a matter of preference. Some like it, others do not.
- Ugliness - again, a matter of taste. De gustibus non est disputandum...
- Screen comparison - from what I understand it is a quick hands-on preview, not a proper review. Even the author states that he had only this HP at hand to compare it to the Oslo/Tungsten.
- Sony as Palm's only hope - oh pleeease, do we need *another* silly flame war?
- Price - you are right with this one. 640 Euro is way too much, even for a OS5 high-end device. Then again, I wonder how will Sony price their new handhelds for European markets...
- 16 MB RAM - yes, that is a bit low (ok, maybe 128 Mb low ;-)
- rival Pocket PCs - right, please see my comment re Sony.



RE: This is a joke
Zuber @ 10/17/2002 7:50:26 AM #
>>>- VG - it is really a matter of preference. Some like it, others do not.<<<

I don't think saying VG is a matter of preference is valid (IMHO). If VG is Implimented well, I can only think of 1 slight advantage over having VG. That is a small reduction in the battery consumption due to smaller screen.

The key here is implimented well. Some users prefer a fixed writing area then fine. Just make it a setting so the user can have the VG area always visible. This can alsobe used to improve compatibility with older software etc.

I suspect that the only reason, a Palm device with VG is not being released, is that Palm was unable to in the time/budget available. It will probably be done in some future release.

It's a great shame for me, because I am now left trying to balance what device I am likely to get the best use out of. Had VG been present, the decision would already be made. I'm also concerned that a good upgrade path is not going to be as likely as the next device may well have VG.

Just my opinions,


VG is not something I want
N473 @ 10/17/2002 9:53:35 AM #
I am a very happy Treo 90 owner. It is my sixth Palm OS device and it is the one I think they got right. The form factor is amazing. The thumbboard is easy to use and faster than grafitti. I do not want to use a stylus to write data into my machine. Bring on the thumbboards, forget VG.

VG / thumbboard / sliding lid
Lobotome @ 10/17/2002 11:08:43 AM #
Be sure that a sliding thumb board that replaces the standard sliding cover will be offered as an accessory or an option very, very soon.

RE: Thisis a joke
stupidnewpolicy @ 10/17/2002 1:26:51 PM #
One potential reason for Palm's not having included VG in any of their new line is this: Sony may not be letting them have it.

Remember, HandEra licensed it from Sony, Sony didn't GIVE it away. They didn't make the VG extensions part of the base PalmOS5. Those extensions are still that: extensions. And Sony may charge too much for their use for Palm to pay for it. They've made boneheaded decisions before with their machines, why assume they didn't this time around. Maybe they thought built-in bluetooth would make up for it. I dunno.

But I wouldn't assume that Palm devices will EVER use VG. They may not want to pony up the bucks.


RE: VG is not something I want
stupidnewpolicy @ 10/17/2002 1:41:57 PM #
I see a need for stylus AND kb methods of data entry. I prefer stylus myself, and not just because it comes free (tho that is a perk). I have tried a number of keyboards for pda's and besides a full-size normal kb (like the folding/rollable one by VIK), which isn't convenient for meetings, I haven't found a kb yet that works for me.

I have thick fingers. Stubby you could call them. My thumbs are each around 15/16" wide when pressing down on my Leatherman to measure them. Now, that's at their widest point. When pressing down at the point where I press using a thumboard, they are only 3/4" across, but that's still too wide to work a thumboard accurately with any decent speed (again, think meetings).

So I favor entry via the stylus. I type fairly well on a normal keyboard (50-60wpm), somewhat worse on a laptop keyboard (35-45wpm) and I write on my Palm about 20-30wpm, which is fine for taking notes.

Using a thumboard, I make so many typos hitting adjacent keys (also the problem I have with laptop kb's), I can usually only average 10-15wpm and I end up taking the thing off and using my stylus. So much so, I have gotten rid of the thumboards I had.

I also tried Fitaly, as well as some other software kb's and tho they make certain characters a bit more accessible, it's not enough of a speed improvement over Grafitti.

Just another experience-based opinion....


RE: Thisis a joke
ganoe @ 10/17/2002 2:58:31 PM #
> Sony may not be letting them [Palm] have it [virtual graffiti].
> Remember, HandEra licensed it from Sony, Sony didn't GIVE it away.

Well I'm not sure about the licensing, but HandEra had virtual graffiti on a Palm OS PDA about a year before Sony, and Samsung had it around a half year before. The implementations aren't the same either. So I really doubt HandEra got anything from Sony.

My understanding was that Sony's OS licensing agreement allowed for Palm to take any of Sony's OS additions they wanted, for free.

RE: Thisis a joke
stupidnewpolicy @ 10/17/2002 7:38:22 PM #
I stand (well... sit) corrected. Hope you're correct about Sony's license agreement - also hope that Palm starts using VG.

I also hope that prices fall a LOT more than they have. $500 is just too much for a PDA. A Notebook should be $500 (Pentium or Pentium II of course), but not a handheld.

The most I've paid for a Palm is $179 for my IIIc. That's about my limit. Paid $75 for my M500. That's about my limit for non-color. I can't wait until the NR70 models fall below $200. If they never do, I won't get one.


Page Gone

MasNick @ 10/17/2002 7:19:24 AM #
Looks like the page has been taken down. I wonder if Palm Inc had anything to do with that...

Copy of Page here.
Zane @ 10/17/2002 10:05:13 AM #
Thought it might disappear, so here's a copy:

OT: was RE: Page Gone
devildoc @ 10/17/2002 4:05:58 PM #

I've never used babelfish before [I followed your link re: Tungsten], but I am glad it is this poor at translating Russian. I don't have to worry about employment.

I don't see the need for the Sliding area.

Roberto_tores @ 10/17/2002 7:23:09 AM #
Some may say this is to make the device smaller, but the Clie SJ30 is almost as short as the Tungsten and does not use a sliding grafiti area.

This will just cause headaches to case makers and make the device look complicated for newbies.

RE: I don't see the need for the Sliding area.
Khunbenja @ 10/17/2002 8:06:08 AM #
Agree, I don't see the need for the sliding area. I wonder if the sliding movement is like the new Nokia series that slides up and down on a spring controlled action. On the Nokia, you press the sides and the phone moves up in a very high quality movement, sort of like hydrollics. If this is so, then I would give Palm a thumbs up for quality. I on the other hand would much prefer VG and the small form factor of the SJ Series.

RE: I don't see the need for the Sliding area.
amike @ 10/17/2002 8:13:00 AM #
SJ30 doesn't have D-Pad, THE single button for horizontal and vertical scroll...

Personnaly I found it difficult to user jogdial on my casio EM505f ...

RE: I don't see the need for the Sliding area.
c_blue @ 10/17/2002 11:21:35 AM #
Exactly, if you want SJ30 size and no sliding parts you must forget the D-PAD. I vote for the D_pad.

In any case I'll use fitaly either stamp or virtual.


What happened to the Zen?

Tuckermaclain @ 10/17/2002 8:00:39 AM #
What happened to the Zen of the Palm? Every click/step saved was precious. Now I have to pull the slider open and extend my stylus. I'm not thrilled. Maybe Sony will do better with the SJ when it goes to OS5.
RE: What happened to the Zen?
PacManFoo @ 10/17/2002 8:31:01 AM #
Buy a Zire!!!

RE: What happened to the Zen?
hkklife @ 10/17/2002 9:35:40 AM #
All joking aside, he has a point. The Zire takes the Zen philosophy and defeats it by taking several steps backwards. Greed is not synonimous with "Zen". Core features (backlight, hardware buttons) should not be trimmed in the same manner as "power user frills" (UC, SD slot, 33 mhz CPU, flash memory, long range IR port etc).

What Palm needs is essentially a low-cost, updated version of the Vx in plastic casing styled like the Zire. 4 to 8 megs of ram, full button set, rechargable battery, OS 4.1. Many of the people who like the Zire styling might be turned off by a more knowledgable friend or coworker and pointed in the direction of the m125. If they find that unit aesthetically unappealing it's bye-bye Palm-based PDAs and back to the Franklin Covey store for a nice organizer with a leather cover.

After seeing the Oslo/Tungsten T, I have to also say that Palm needs a high-end device in the style of the Vx. That formfactor could essentially have been Palm's "Startac", and like Motorola, they could have ridden that formfactor for years and years. Even recently, when you could pick up a Startac for next to nothing, most people still saw it as a nifty looking, espensive status symbol, despite the fact that the first analog version was released way back in 1996. I don't see the Tungsten (in its current form) having 6 months of longevity, much less 6 years.

RE: What happened to the Zen?
mashby @ 10/17/2002 9:42:08 AM #
Well, don't forget that there is a center button in the navigation circle. It would appear that you could navigate the device and then select items with the center button. I don't know this for certian, but that's what it looks like to me.

I would guess that you could navigate and select apps without having to open the grafitti area. You'd then only need it for data entry and not navigation.

For example, perhaps you can use it much like you would a jog dial and scroll through entries in your address book?

Michael T. Ashby

Sliding Graffiti Area & Virtual Graffiti

bytor @ 10/17/2002 8:41:59 AM #
I have seen a lot of stuff written about this topic. I have been a PDA uses since my first PalmPilot in 1997 (Still have in excellent condition and made in USA :o) ). Since that time, I have been through a Nino, E-11, E-105, Visor Prism and Visor pro. I have used both the Virtual Graffiti and the standard version. I can say that it is a matter of preference and there is little benefit of one over the other with the exception of screen size.

That being said, I would choose form factor over screen size. This is my PDA. I dont plan on taking over the world with it. I recently traveled to the UK with my Visor Pro and was able to listen to MP3's with my miniJam, check my email and type so documents via my stoaway. Everything worked just fine.

It looks like Palm has hit the nail on the head with this. Providing some multimedia support, hirez screen while still keeping the form factor acceptable. In addition, I like the idea of a sliding graffiti cover. I am sure that this is well thought out because it is indeed the weakest link in the whole device. I am sure a special machine was designed for the sole purpose of opening and closing the case about 15 gazillion times to work out the bugs.

The one issue I am mostly interested in is battery life. This should be everyones primart concern. You can have a great device with every bell and wistle imaginable. However, if you need to recharge it after 3 hours of use, whats the point. Palm has always been on top when this is concerned. There is a lot of speculation, and we will all be enlightened in about 10 days.


RE: Sliding Graffiti Area & Virtual Graffiti
TheMoo @ 10/17/2002 9:12:15 AM #
I'm Sold and am selling others!!!!!

RE: Sliding Graffiti Area & Virtual Graffiti
hkklife @ 10/17/2002 9:22:04 AM #
Agreed. I am almost certain that the sliding mechanism will be of super-high quality to withstand multiple thousands of sliding motions. If it's not,then Palm is toast.

While I'd prefer virtual Grafitti (who wouldn't?) the sliding mechanism (if done with a good quality feel to it) might grow on me. Now, it's the extending Stylus that worries me, if for no reason other than having to buy yet another aftermarket stylus and Palm replacement 3-pack.

I really am sick of Palm changing stylus design every time it releases a unit with only incremental changes to the formfactor (V series to m5xx, m100 to m125/130).

Finally, does anyone know if that Grafitti area is backlit? That was one of the main reasons (aside from cost) that prevented me from upgrading to an m515 from my m505.

RE: Sliding Graffiti Area & Virtual Graffiti
ska @ 10/17/2002 10:27:55 AM #
>>Agreed. I am almost certain that the sliding mechanism will be of super-high quality to withstand multiple thousands of sliding motions. If it's not,then Palm is toast.

but than again there is that failing digitizer, staticy cradle, botch m130 color, and low quality built of the m1xx. Can't always assume Palm will produce high quality product.

RE: Sliding Graffiti Area & Virtual Graffiti
amflores @ 10/17/2002 12:07:26 PM #
What "low quality on the m1xx series"? Never heard of that nor suffered of on my m105...It has even fall from a moving car on a slide and keep working perfectly before that, only minor scratches -really- and the screen never showed signs of the smallest crack, and that was almost a year ago.

If thats low quality, then I want more of that.

Dude, they're gonna get "Delled"!

sandbuck @ 10/17/2002 9:48:05 AM #
The picture with some actually holding it makes me think it is kind of a cool design. But not cute enough to pay $500 or more.
RE: Dude, they're gonna get
Mike Scott @ 10/17/2002 7:20:44 PM #
I entirely agree with you. With 32MB ROM/64MB RAM Pocket PCs for $300-$350 emerging from Dell, Viewsonic and Toshiba, if they list this much above $350, they're going to get their butts handed to them.

I've been using Palms (or Palm Pilots) since I worked for 3COM 4 or 5 years back. I'm currently using a IIIc and was waiting for OS 5 to upgrade, but I'm now considering ash-canning my considerable investment in Palm software and jumping ship.

RE: Dude, they're gonna get
Ronin @ 10/18/2002 1:30:54 PM #
This pricing issue is a serious concern.

For the first time, I recently considered a PPC because I was able to purchase a Toshiba e310 for $299.

I actually bought the device and tried it out. The device is slim and pocketable and the price was extremely reasonable thus addressing two of the three major reasons I had never considered a PPC before. The third reason could only be explored by actual hands on experience, that reason being the PPC OS itself. Bottom line, in less than a week the e310 was back in its box ready to be returned. IMO, the OS is terrible and buggy and something only a technophile with plenty of time on their hands could love. The experience made me appreciate the Palm OS (with all its "simplicity") all the more. The PPC OS is truly like having a Windows computer in your hand with all the problems attendant there to, it reminded me of a Win98 machine with crashes and concerns of memory management, etc. I have also decided that on a handheld, multitasking is not all its cracked up to be. I found it a lot easier to access information on the Palm with its ability to jump from program to program almost instantly. I also do not have to worry about saving data on a Palm since the moment you leave a program the data & your position are saved. I found myself feeling like I needed to press the equivalent of 'Ctrl-S' all the time just in case the computer crashed and needed to be reset.

I did walk away with this overwhelming feeling from the experience - Why can't Palm sell their devices with that kind of hardware at that price point. Even when the Toshiba e310 was first released at $399 the hardware was superior to any Palm hardware ever available. Comparable hardware has been released by Sony but at a considerably higher price.

I am now faced with a major question. If I buy a "next gen" Palm device am I allowing myself to be fleeced because the hardware is inferior to comparable machines from competitors or is the Palm OS and it is utility worth a premium in the long run?

In the Spirit of Umoja,

RE: Dude, they're gonna get
BTS @ 10/24/2002 7:43:44 PM #
The price of the new Palm OS computers has me very concerned. So, I'm forced to choose between a Toshiba or Dell $500 CDN or a Sony $999 CDN. Hmmmmm, that one is a no brainer.

Don't get me wrong - I love my Handera 330. I really wanted to get one of the new machines. However, I also own a PPC and simply have not had the crashing, slow performance, etc. that people seem to complain about. Other people that I know have not had any PPC problems either. As for crashing my Handera will do that quite frequently when running certain programs. Press "reset" and away you go.

Let's hope that Palm and Sony don't drop the ball on this one. It would be a shame for them to price themselves out.

Die Hard Palm User....but

ozzpalm @ 10/17/2002 10:01:50 AM #
The Tungsten T is very impressive but the early comments on Viewsonic's product seem to be noteworthy.
In any event, I can't wait to get my hands on the Tungsten T :-)

Screen Quality?

SaabCaptain @ 10/17/2002 10:16:14 AM #
They show the screen side by side with a Jornada which isn't the brightest or best Pocket PC screen out there... and the Tungsten T appears dimmer. While it is obvious it isn't bad like the m505 I am disappointed it doesn't appear brighter. I was hoping for a "world class" screen with brightness like the new ViewSonic V35. That said you can also think of it in the following ways:

1. Maybe the pictures weren't taken with the brightness all the way up, but I doubt it.
2. A slightly dimmer screen saves on battery life and hopefully this unit maintains at *least* the battery life of the m515.

Quick other notes: It is .2 thicker than the m500, Palm V, Toshiba e330, and ViewSonic V35. It is .1 thicker than the m505 and m515. The closed mode seems really tiny in height and saves a few millimeters on a m500 or m505 which is cool. I wonder how cases will work with this unit, you can't really make a total wrap around case ala the EBCases etc, it has to be more like a Slim Line case like Palm itself sells so the bottom can pop out when your using it. Also this review now implies once again the processor is 175 mHz which is good news indeed as for the price this baby is coming out for the 144 mHz just *sucked* compared to hardware available for much less.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.

RE: Screen Quality?
SaabCaptain @ 10/17/2002 10:37:33 AM #
PS: Just a quick note... I *think* the processor will be at 175 mHz but the european AD show earlier on this site said it will be at 144 mHz. This unit shown on the Russian site is a Oslo prototype NOT the Tungsten T (although visually they look the same) per the site's comments. Perhaps the prototype did have a 175 mHz processor but for release they are using a cheaper 144 mHz version? I sure hope not.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Screen Quality?
MJGunn @ 10/17/2002 11:02:26 AM #
It does look slightly dimmer, but I wouldn't really worry about that, all that might mean is that the brightness was turned down, and even if it wasn't, it still looks bright enough. What is important, however, is look at the quality of the screen compared to the jornada, its not milky and washed out like your typical pocket pc screen. I guess this answers my question as to whether or not they moved to a transflective screen for the Tungsten.


htejeda @ 10/17/2002 10:50:57 AM #
I personally don't like the design.

Jog Wheel?

CleverClaire @ 10/17/2002 10:57:50 AM #
I'm probably just nutz, but does it look like it might have an up/down rocker on the side? Look at the second picture down where a thumb wheel would be. It looks like something sticking out.

And on the 4th picture the dude's thumb is on the side like it might be on a rocker. Plus there is an arrow pointing there (not the headphone jack arrow, below that - right at the thumb) that says Ckponnop. Whatever that means. Anyone translate????


RE: Jog Wheel?
pauleyc @ 10/17/2002 11:21:29 AM #
Actually, the text on the 4th picture says "Scroller (under the finger ;)".

Apparently Palm included a scrolling wheel with button (jog dial, rocher, whatever) with the T; the text says it is used to change between the launcher categories (though I would assume it is not limited to just this operation ;).


RE: Jog Wheel?
Mick @ 10/18/2002 10:42:15 AM #
No, it's not a wheel, just a scroll button was written.

Does it have a Universal Connector???

richs @ 10/17/2002 11:27:01 AM #
I cannot even imagine Palm changing again. Does anyone know if this has UC?
Also why only 16mb?? If OS5 can do more why not at least 32

RE: Does it have a Universal Connector???
izadwen @ 10/17/2002 1:56:05 PM #

RE: Does it have a Universal Connector???
twizza @ 10/17/2002 5:44:12 PM #
yes it has the UC
the reason for teh 16MB is probably more battery related than competition related. think back to when sony came out with hi-res palms, back then tehy siad that they would do hi-res when battery tech was able to keep up with the low power requirements that palm wanted. i am feeling that the 16mb issue is the same...the more memory present the more power that it will take to 'read' it. i am not too technical abuot it. but i know that 16mb draws much less power than 32mb. Let palm release this model, it will replace the m515 in a lot of respects, then Palm will have to release a 32mb tungsten and maybe even a 64...but only if they can make it power efficient for end users.

Will my m515 Cradles work with Tungsten?
Gekko @ 10/17/2002 6:40:48 PM #
Yes, I know it has the UC, but I own 3 m515 Cradles - I'm worried the shape at bottom is different/won't fit!!!

RE: Does it have a Universal Connector???
twizza @ 10/18/2002 1:46:40 PM #
knowing palm, they will ship teh same cradle that teh m515 has. maybe with a new color to match the Tungsten. i dont mind the cradle, at this point a silver version of it would be great to have next to my m515

Tungsten is ready to shipped at Staples

Edd @ 10/17/2002 11:24:40 AM #
For those who are interested, Staples warehouse on the west coast has around 500 of these unit in-stock. Ready to be shipped out to the stores as soon as Palm gives the order. Tungsten is already in the inventory system with the SKU number and price.
RE: Tungsten is ready to shipped at Staples
SaabCaptain @ 10/17/2002 11:30:16 AM #
What is the US price?

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Tungsten is ready to shipped at Staples
Edd @ 10/17/2002 11:31:05 AM #
I'll let you know around 4:30 - 5:00PM (PST). Now these prices sometimes they do change in the system. If my memory serve me correctly it was around $400.-
RE: Tungsten is ready to shipped at Staples
SaabCaptain @ 10/17/2002 3:05:31 PM #
$399 would be good, $449 would be typical but in todays market overpriced, $449+ would be a disaster for Palm.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Tungsten is ready to shipped at Staples
drivola80 @ 10/18/2002 7:45:56 AM #

did you found out the price ? Is 400 or 500 $ ?

RE: Tungsten is ready to shipped at Staples
Edd @ 10/18/2002 6:57:10 PM #
Sorry for the late reply, but here it is: Palm Tungsten T $469.98 SKU no. 498344

The warehouse has 420 units ready to be shipped.

RE: Tungsten is ready to shipped at Staples
Ricky @ 10/23/2002 12:06:15 AM #
If it is already in the inventory system, why doesn't it come up when you go to and search for "Tungsten"?

RE: Tungsten is ready to shipped at Staples
Edd @ 10/26/2002 12:39:42 AM #
It's in "internal" inventory system not online on I've seen the new boxes already it's clear plastic, on the side it's boasting Bluetooth and OS 5.


nlowhor @ 10/17/2002 12:30:38 PM #
We've seen a good bit of information on the new handhelds. What about the new OS? We know something about it's capabilities, but I want to see the interface and features. In actual use, how is it different from what we've been used to? Anyone got any info??
Zuber @ 10/17/2002 3:00:22 PM #
If you want to know about OS5, just get the emulator. Havn't got the link to hand, but just try a search. Main thing missing from it is the browser.


nlowhor @ 10/17/2002 3:58:34 PM #
I've got the emulator. Looks basically the same to me. I thought the interface might be different and I also thought it would allow multitasking.


SaabCaptain @ 10/17/2002 6:10:07 PM #
OS 6 will be the first to really change the GUI, allow multitasking and have truly native apps. If these units will be FLASH upgradeable, well some say yes, some say no... buyer beware.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: OS5 - will the MEMO SIZE Limit be gone?
Gekko @ 10/17/2002 6:43:19 PM #
will the MEMO SIZE Limit be gone?

hotpaw4 @ 10/17/2002 10:53:34 PM #
The MemoPad in the OS5 simulator seems to still only allow 4k max Memos (probably for backwards compatibility for those who want to sync their new memo's onto an older PalmPilot or Palm Desktop); however, there are *lots* of alternative memopads (PEdit32, Doc file editors, etc.)

Palm seem to be pretty good about trying to maintain backwards compatibility. Unlike another OS vendor where sometimes you can't open documents, created by a word processor of the same name and which have been sent to you, unless you've downgraded to a newer, slower, buggier, or more expensive release.

SaabCaptain @ 10/17/2002 11:39:56 PM #
Your argument about keeping backward compatibility is well founded and Palm is smart to do it... however at some point they have to move on. I have had these units since 1996 and little if anything has changed in terms of the feature set of the PIM applications, including Memo Pad. That is eons in PDA time and at some point Palm has to move on or be passed up.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
Gekko @ 10/18/2002 8:32:03 AM #
This is ridiculous! There is no reason that the 4K memo LIMIT should still exist in OS5!! Backward compatability is a B.S. excuse!!! We are just talking TEXT here!!!

First Noticable BeOS Influence - the Icons ...

Token User @ 10/17/2002 1:24:10 PM #
One noticeable change is, new default icons in the launcher screen.

All they need is a little stick figure lego man standing beside the isometric projection icons and the UI will have the same icon style :)

~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

Still needs dual expansion slots

gfunkmagic @ 10/17/2002 4:11:24 PM #
ThTungsten T would be perfect in my opinion if it had a dual expansion capability with both a SD and CF slot. I would much rather prefer this IMHO than a virtual graffiti screen.

RE: Still needs dual expansion slots
hotpaw4 @ 10/17/2002 11:05:32 PM #
Actually, this seems to have triple expansion capability: Bluetooth, SD and Universal connector (but I'm not sure if the OMAP can do IR and USB at the same time). wifi can be accomplished by either an external Bluetooth bridge or a sled, each with their own batteries.

The PPC and Sony NX wifi solutions which gives you almost no useful battery life seems pretty useless.


gulmatan @ 10/17/2002 4:52:02 PM #
Hi there.

First, it seems that the screenshots don't show 320-by-320 so, does this mean that the Tungsten can be switched between 160 and 320 resolution?

Secondly, what's the difference between Virtual Graffiti and using CIC's Jot! program with the "Write On Screen" option enabled? Wouldn't thaty be just as good as Virtual Graffiti?

Matt A.

RE: VG/Hi-Res
ganoe @ 10/17/2002 5:09:42 PM #
The screenshots are (very obvious to me) 320x320.

Using Jot! is not comparable to using virtual graffiti. The primary advantage to virtual graffiti is that you get extra screen real estate when you are not inputing text (33% more on current Palm OS devices that have it). Great for e-books, browsing the web, viewing pictures, and many kinds of data look-up.

Other adavntages are that the virtual graffiti area is typically backlit, can support echoing your graffiti strokes, can have customizable buttons (including replacing the whole area with a keypad), can be used to display data in landscape mode, and can display other info (like time of day, a favorite graphic, etc.). It's just far more flexible.

RE: VG/Hi-Res
SaabCaptain @ 10/17/2002 6:11:54 PM #
Clearly the screen is 320x320.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: VG/Hi-Res
Mick @ 10/18/2002 10:50:26 AM #
The author wrote there (believe me:) that resolution definitely not 320x320. That's why he guessed it is Oslo. I'd say comparison of two screens (Jornada and Palm) confirms that.
RE: VG/Hi-Res
SaabCaptain @ 10/18/2002 11:05:33 AM #
Again, totally wrong. The res in the picture IS 320x320. The jornada is 320x240 but the pixels are MUCH LARGER and the screen larger, but that doesn't mean the res is higher. The small square screen you see on the "Oslo" actually has more pixels than the jornada. Look at any current high end Sony with a 320x320 screen, it is identical. Also the image on the "Oslo" screen can't be made on a 160x160 screen, you can clearly see the high resoultion icons etc.

Please don't think small = low res. The "Oslo" in the picture has many more pixels then the jornada.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.

Fry's should have them on the 28th

iJITSU @ 10/17/2002 5:38:44 PM #
Someone at Fry's Electronics said that they have an ageement with Palm, and that they will have the Tungsten T on the shelves the day it's announced.

RE: Fry's should have them on the 28th
SaabCaptain @ 10/17/2002 6:12:54 PM #
Staples, Office Depot, maybe CompUSA/Best Buy will also have them the 28th. After the disaster that was the m500/m505 launch (they announced them 1 1/2 months before release and watched as mounds of Palm V's went un-sold) Palm has resolved to only announce units that can be bought immediatly.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.


JKingGrim @ 10/17/2002 6:09:35 PM #
I just wondr if the apps on the screen (Hand Zipper and Insider) come with the device.
RE: Apps
pocketscience @ 10/17/2002 6:32:17 PM #
Unless it's a new "Insider" I doubt very much if it will appear on the devices... it's a developer tool for checking out the contents of databases etc...

Of course it's a fairly generic name, so could be something new.


RE: Apps
ozzpalm @ 10/17/2002 6:49:11 PM #
What is "Hand Zipper"?

Just like Nokia 8850, 8890 and 8910 series!

momon526 @ 10/17/2002 9:00:48 PM #
many may disgust the form factor of tungsten/oslo, but remember that first impression may not last at all. remember when the Nokia 8850/8890 series came out at the market, many people says it's ugly. but when you take a real hold on the device... all u can say is wowww!!!

honestly, maybe Palm adapted the Nokia design factor.

The easiest way to hotsync?

gemikon @ 10/18/2002 4:40:16 AM #
As many of us are going soon to get the new Tungsten can you please tell me which is the best way to hotsync a new palm with all the info from an old one? I currently have a palm IIIxe and now I plan to get a tungsten. Is there a way with palm's hotsync program to transfer everything from the old palm to the new one? Thanks
RE: The easiest way to hotsync?
bytor @ 10/18/2002 8:14:21 AM #
First of all, all of your contact information, datebook, notes, etc will probably already HS automatically. If you are talking about programs, usually, when I upgrade to a new unit, I use that as an excuse to take the time and rethink what software I want to install. Over time, I usually end up with a lot of garbage on my machine and there are many apps, games, etc. that I just dont use any more. In addition, I also investigate new program launchers to see if there is something that is more functional that what I previously used. (No one uses the default launcher, right?)

Lastly, since this is somewhat of a significant OS upgrade, there may be some programs that are incompatable with OS5. I have heard that hacks may not work the same way. Hopefully there is some workaround because I think everyone would agree that they provide a degree of functionality that is vacant in the OS. I am also curious if DA's (Desktop Accessories) will be in the same boat.

As for myself, I will probably purchase one of these when it first hits the shelves. The former device I used to use, from a company that will remain nameless, has abandoned their design concept for a flimsy device with a thumb board. Maybe you can guess who?? *smile*

RE: The easiest way to hotsync?
gemikon @ 10/18/2002 9:34:00 AM #
Thank you for your suggestions. But I still dont know it the palm desktop I have only one profile of my cuurent palm. How will I be able to send all the info under my current palm profile to the new palm? Do I have to create a new profile? Do I have to select overwrite palm? Thanks
RE: The easiest way to hotsync?
bytor @ 10/18/2002 10:55:54 AM #
When you hotsync the new unit for the first time you should be given the option to sign on as a new user or select an existing user. You can do either. If you create a new profile, you should be able to HS all of your data directly to the new unit. I have 3 Visors, all with different programs but all with the same memo, contact, and datbook info. Works like a charm.


Long Live Visor Prism

RE: The easiest way to hotsync?
JKingGrim @ 10/18/2002 4:09:58 PM #
I am in the same situation (I too have a IIIxe and want a Tungsten), and I did consider using the same profile, but then I realized this could have serious consequences. Any hacks will not work on OS5 (as stated by PalmSource) and could mess up the devise. There may even be more difficulties with attempting to sync to a brand new OS, with a new processor. You may have to bite the bullet, and beam everything.

RE: The easiest way to hotsync?
Altema @ 10/18/2002 11:02:22 PM #
If you want choose what gets installed on your new device, here's a reliable way to do it which is easier than starting from scratch:

When you do a hotsync with a blank handheld and choose a user name, the contents of your backup folder are transferred to your handheld. This folder is usually C:\Program Files\Palm\username\Backup\.

Username in the path above would be a variation of your Hotsync name, like SmithJ if your name was John Smith. If you are installing a newer version of Palm Desktop, copy the contents of the Backup folder to another folder on your computer, like C:\Old Backup. If you are keeping your current Palm Desktop software, then just create a new folder called Old Backup and copy the contents of your Backup folder to Old Backup. You should delete any apps from C:\Program Files\Palm\username\Backup that are not compatable with the new handheld, especially hacks and special IRDA drivers for the III series Palms. Please note that the backup folder is primarily for your 3rd party apps. Your address book, datebook, expense, memopad, and notepad data is kept in individual folders within the C:\Program Files\Palm\username folder in Palm Desktop version 4.1.

This will keep all of your old data safe, and lets you pick and choose what gets installed to your new device. Remember that anything in your Backup folder will be installed to your new device when you hotsync for the first time.

RE: The easiest way to hotsync? BEAM IT!
Tungster Tee @ 10/26/2002 4:33:30 AM #
They way I like to upgrade a new unit it to beam my contact, memo, and schedule info to the new machine. Then install the programs I want to use. It's a bit time consuming but it makes for a clean new device.

Gonna geta Tungsten Tomorrow!!!!!!

ThinkDB/Smartlist is the killer app of Palm OS

Another story from Russia

Mick @ 10/18/2002 11:13:52 AM #
More adventures of Palm in Russia (looks like it's flooded with new Palms:). This is a link:

Not many pics, but there are few interesting things. It is not Tungsten T but Oslo - released last summer.
Specs are:
PalmOS 5.0
CPU OMAP1510, 200 Mhz - could be mistake though
16 Mb memory
screen resolution 160x160
Bluetooth (!)
microphone, speaker
Li-Lon battery, 15 hours life - not bad at all

He also writes - many (not all) old programs work ok under new OS

RE: Another story from Russia
SaabCaptain @ 10/18/2002 12:19:21 PM #
Yes, the Oslo prototypes made the rounds this summer. The Tungsten T WILL be identical in form to the Oslo. The Oslo units had a 175 mHz processor, the first AD in europe for the Tungsten T said it had a 144 mHz processor but that could be a typo.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Another story from Russia
formerlyanon @ 10/18/2002 2:07:29 PM #
the SysInfo 1.4 says it is 260mhz, 104 clockspeed, version 5.1 of palm os

My palm III was 50p from a charity shop, and introduced me to pdas

Tungsten replacement already started?

ska @ 10/18/2002 12:42:00 PM #
It seems Tungsten will be a very short lived product, since rumor about who is going to produced the next year version of OS 5.0 already emerge in trade news. If that is the case Tungstes shelf life will be one of the shortes in Palm Inc history, even shorter than the botched m505.

The research house added there was "a strong possibility" that Taiwanese manufacturers would bag orders for the Palm OS 5.0 model scheduled for launch next year.


gemikon @ 10/18/2002 12:57:45 PM #
and if i create a new profile for the new palm how is it then possible to get to the new palm all the memos, datebook... etc from the old profile?
RE: hotsync
bytor @ 10/18/2002 2:29:40 PM #
All of that info is maintained in your contact management program which I assume is outlook. Before you hotsync your new device, HS your old one first. Then, when you HS your new device, you should be given the option of transfering all of your outlook data to your new device.


Long Live Visor Prism

RE: hotsync
hotpaw4 @ 10/22/2002 1:32:16 AM #
HotSync under the old profile and then either blank (.. shortcut) or change the UserName AND UserID on the handheld (pilot-link install-user under linux). Then re-HotSync and use the new profile.

Too many steps to use graffiti

robrecht @ 10/18/2002 12:53:50 PM #
I am attracted to the more compact carrying size but not too enthusiastic about needing to 1) open the unit AND 2) expand the stylus, before I can begin to use graffiti. (I acutally thought the earlier discussion of a telescoping stylus was a joke!)

Thanks, Robrecht

RE: Too many steps to use graffiti
twizza @ 10/18/2002 1:43:21 PM #
expanding the unit might be a bit much for some. but the stylus would work the same extended or not. the reason that it extends would be because it has to compact and expand with the palmie.

RE: Too many steps to use graffiti
robrecht @ 10/18/2002 3:45:53 PM #
The stylus does not work the same if it is too short!

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: Too many steps to use graffiti
nyates @ 10/18/2002 5:05:37 PM #
Those of us who have experience with the (God rest it's soul) newton, remember the telescoping stylus, and I for one look forward to this. Yes it does feel a little different when it isn't extended, but if Palm made this anything like the newton stylus it will work just like a click pen (push down with your thumb to pop it up and push again to retract it). Take a click pen out of your drawer and see if it is too much trouble to click it before the tip hits paper. That should give you an idea of whether or not this stylus will work for you.

RE: Too many steps to use graffiti
robrecht @ 10/19/2002 10:59:54 AM #
If it works like a click pen, that sounds much better. I could probably live with that. I thought it might end up being a two-handed maneuver.

Thanks, Robrecht

The stylus

Be3G @ 10/18/2002 1:41:10 PM #
I'm not sure about this, but from what I can gather by looking at the pictures and article, the stylus may actually have a soft tip at the end of it.


Check out Computer Talk:


JKingGrim @ 10/18/2002 4:00:26 PM #
I've heard a lot of people say to get rid of grafitti, and this is not a good suggestion. Many apps rely on grafitti. I would really regret paying for Race Fever if grafitti was removed, and I had to use the buttons. There are also tons of developer shortcuts. Removing grafitti would attack the heart of palm OS. Perhaps putting a virtual keybord, switchable to grafitti, or a silkscreen keybord that still accepts grafitti stokes, but totally removing grafitti is out of the question.

Price of the T? $469.98

SaabCaptain @ 10/18/2002 11:38:52 PM #
From elsewhere on the board Staples it appears has this in their inventory for sale on Oct. 28th at $469.98 with 420 boxes already received.


owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.

RE: Price of the T? $469.98
SaabCaptain @ 10/27/2002 5:12:26 PM #
Several other stores are selling them for list, $499, although I am sure they will have to price match as major chains do. Staples does have them for $468.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.

Russian PDA sites...

Pustota @ 10/20/2002 2:51:49 PM #
Heh, Russians a lot of interesting sites about PDA! I have found a site where the information about bugs and problems almost all models - is collected. It is a lot of and known problems, but about many I have learned first time. So, the site in Russian, but AltaVista have very good translating systems.

Some Staples have received them already

Edd @ 10/25/2002 11:04:18 AM #
Some of the stores on the West Side have received the units already. But they can't sell you until the 28th. If you want, they can put on hold for you.
RE: Some Staples have received them already
lorinser1 @ 10/25/2002 5:38:32 PM #
DO you happen to know what the Staples part number is? The super smart people at my Staples say they dont know what it is. In other words if its not on the shelf they do not have it :)

TUNGSTEN out yet???
Gekko @ 10/25/2002 6:26:14 PM #
Where is it??? Has anyone tried to get one early?? I'm thinking of trying this weekend. Any news????????

RE: Some Staples have received them already
tonnerd @ 10/25/2002 11:28:56 PM #
I live in the Midwest and picked one up this afternoon from Staples, but haven't had time to set it up. Packaging is very different.

RE: Some Staples have received them already
Edd @ 10/26/2002 12:42:43 AM #
Sorry for the late reply, but here it is: Palm Tungsten T $469.98 SKU no. 498344. Don't bother search on because they haven't posted any Tungsten T there yet. The new box is in clear plastic with the new unit on top, on the side featuring Bluetooth and OS 5. The new stylus is very funky IMHO. It looks kinda like an antenna to me :)

Best Buy says another 2-3 weeks until Tungsten arrives

Gekko @ 10/26/2002 1:08:53 PM #
Are they BS-ing me? Anybody get one yet? Thanks.

RE: Best Buy says another 2-3 weeks until Tungsten arrives
Tungster Tee @ 10/26/2002 4:34:34 PM #
I went to the following stores today and got pretty much the same story (except staples...they said they would have them Sunday/Monday):

Circuit City
Best Buy
Office Depot
Office Max

Looks like staples on Monday for me...

ThinkDB/Smartlist is the killer app of Palm OS

RE: Best Buy says another 2-3 weeks until Tungsten arrives
Gekko @ 10/26/2002 5:28:24 PM #
Cables/Cradles Tungsten T, i705, m125/130/500 series

RE: NX60 at Frys in Phx, AZ
Bakedon @ 10/26/2002 8:59:05 PM #
Got to check out OS5 at least. No T although I waited around for them to stop stocking..hoping.
RE: Best Buy says another 2-3 weeks until Tungsten arrives
Gekko @ 10/27/2002 8:31:05 AM #
Where are the early reviews????? I thought for sure somebody could have picked one up by now and posted some initial-impression comments. This thing is supposed to be out tomorrow? Sheesh.


Gekko @ 10/27/2002 9:08:10 AM #
Sorry - I didn't realize there was so much info on the forums!!!

It's ok

SaabCaptain @ 10/27/2002 5:08:46 PM #
Go to the forums, several people have them and most Staples and a few Circuit Citys seem to be selling them already. The reviews are in general very positive about what the unit has, saying it is good build quality, a great screen, fast response... but many are disappointed at a lack of more than 16 megs of memory, no ARM based programs available, no audio/video softwear included with the unit, and that the web browser and bluetooth softwear are not in ROM and need to be added into memory.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.


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