Comments on: AlphaSmart Dana Palm OS Laptop Available Now
AlphaSmart has unveiled Dana, a portable device larger than a handheld and less expensive than a laptop, intended for students. Powered by Palm OS 4.1, Dana includes a full-size, integrated keyboard and a 560 by 160 pixel touch screen that is roughly 7.5 by 2.25 inches. It has 8 MB of memory and two SD/MMC slots. It costs $399 and is available now from the Palm Store.
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RE: Flip Sideways
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I suport pudlik edicashun.
RE: Flip Sideways
RE:
owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: breakthrough
RE:
The Lottery Ticket Dispenser and to a lesser degree the HYVAC test tool, and likely a number of other lesser known devices pre-date that category:
RE:
Industrial vs Academic devices
~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~
RE:
RE:
RE:
Perhaps you could clue me in as to how this is a breakthrough product?
RE:
I would say yes.
Of all the previous attempts to market these devices one element was severely lacking. All the way back to the original Radio Shack TR Model 100 to the last Alphasmarts they have lacked on very needed feature that this one has.
I know this market quite well, as I have wanted one of these for like forever. I have owned only one of them the Brother PowerNote and it was a model with only 16k storage space. It turned out to be useless for this reason. Fortunately, I did not spend anything on it. I got it hand-me-down from my brother and nephew who both used it but gave up, as it lacked some crucial features.
The Laser PC7, QuickPad, Seiko WPS word processor notepad, and others had good battery life, useful screens, and eventually just barely enough memory for useful work. But by the time they were made useful, they were too close in price to used laptops.
So, what does this model add that is a breakthrough? Software. Expansion was available for some of the earlier models, but what could you put in it? A few spell chekcer cards or other simple stuff. But no software like this Dana has out of the barrel. Even the Windows CE units that were in some cases attractive (The Jornada clamshell model...what was it called 820? and the Clio was fascinating with that swing screen deal) had no software to add. The CEs had powerful enough software built, but to bring up painful memories.....My opinion of CE was that it was just too buggy to trust with any real work.
This Dana has all the features that made the previous AlphaSmarts profitable for the company. (I learned from one of their own people on the PDABUzz site that they have actually been selling similar models to schools for years. They have sold 2 million or so. That is certainly far more than total CE models of this sort sold.
I would say that the market offers far better value with a Clie (or for the true bargain driven, a Clemente) with a Stowaway. But, I wish this Dana well and it does have this key breakthough feature; 10,000 add on programs.
My daughter brought one of these sorts of type pads home last year. They use them for take-home special assignments.
I wonder what happens the first time one comes back to school with "The Palma Sutra" installed on it!
RE:
And, I don't see EdH's remarks as trolling. He is more than welcome to have an opinion here. All of us would expect the same welcome at PocketPCThoughts and we would hope not to get discounted just because we are Palm OS users.
RE:
I DON'T think it's necessarily a breakthrough product (at least not at this price), that's not the point. It doesn't mean you should be listened to at face value however (we should all consider the source).
Timothy Rapson:
For the record, I read a few weeks back a post from the site admin at PPC Thoughts telling Palm OS (or at least "device agnostic") posters to go "troll" somewhere else. So no, you probably wouldn't get the same level of respect over there that you would here.
Regardless, I don't care if he posts here. Just those that don't know what he's up to should be made aware.
RE: Breakthrough device?
I used this a lot at school, and found it very handy (though some of the teachers at the time were a bit dubious) -- it had a mammouth 256k memory, was expandable and had backup storage via EPROM (that had to be wiped using UV Light -- this was in the days before Flash ROM!). It also had a built in wordprocessor/spreadsheet/database, communications software (VT52 emulation too!); and BASIC. There was also a thriving community writing software for it (sort of CP/M based I seem to remember).
As I said, as a student it was very useful. But, this was in the days before colour laptops, PDAs, and indeed affordable laptops (from the ad you will see it costs ~$300, a laptop would cost you around $5000-6000). Things have moved on. Students are wealthier, more tech aware, and most importantly, require stylish technological solutions (one only has to look at the penetration of Nokia mobile phones amongst students and the young to observe this behaviour). The Dana's main drawback is it is plain ugly -- it looks just like an industrial unit, not out of place stock taking in a warehouse or somewhere. Students will not want something that does not have the 'wow' factor.
FBN
PS I still have my Z88 somewhere -- I wonder if it still works......
RE:
Scott
RE:
The level of FUD and the subsequent reactions (particularly on the part of the site admins) to those that logically point it out is so irrational that you've got to think that the entire thing is planned (or Jason Dunn and Co. really are that stupid). It's as if they're fighting some kind of battle on behalf of Microsoft.
So it makes perfect sense that that is exactly what EdH (a site admin at Pocket PC Thoughts) is here to do.
RE:
"I know this market quite well, as I have wanted one of these for like forever. "
but that's funny because you didn't mention the apple emate, quite possibly the best attempt at a notebook PDA, because it was small and relatively lightweight, but not as tiny as the clamshell EPOC and WinCE devices, as well as having a very nice 16-level grayscale 320x480 backlit screen and the ability to communicate easily with macs and PCs alike. it also came with some pretty nice word processing and spreadsheet software.
If you're seriously looking for a notebook PDA for composition purposes, you should seriously look on ebay or the http://www.thisoldnewt.com swap meet pages for an emate. it'd be worth it.
(I love my emate and my m505 both.)
--------------------------------------
"Well, if it isn't the leader of the wiener patrol, boning up on his nerd lessons"
http://stirwise.com
RE:
I chalked it up to Jason working too hard on the new site design and not much else. Anyway, I see a little less Palm bashing there since then, and I have tried to let a lot more of it go without comment there, since that appears to be what Jason wants. That's life.
RE:" RE:
kezza @ 10/21/2002 5:11:35 PM
Timothy Rapson said:
"I know this market quite well, as I have wanted one of these for like forever. "
but that's funny because you didn't mention the apple emate, quite possibly the best attempt at a notebook PDA, because it was small and relatively lightweight, but not as tiny as the clamshell EPOC and WinCE devices, as well as having a very nice 16-level grayscale 320x480 backlit screen and the ability to communicate easily with macs and PCs alike. it also came with some pretty nice word processing and spreadsheet software.
I should perhaps have mentioned the EMate. It has perhaps the happiest users of any of these devices except the RS Model 100 (those guys are religiously devoted. There are vanity sites all over the Net dedicated to the Model 100.) EMate was funky looking, too.
My personal favorite hopeful (though I never did buy one.) was the Laser PC (models 1-8 and still available)
RE:
"Don't know about you or other people, but I'd much rather have a PDA and then an external keyboard like the stowaway. These full keyboard units keep failing. Psion effectively went out of the PDA business and Microsoft has left the Handheld PCs to industrial devices."
I use both a HandEra 330 with an external Palm Portable Keyboard, as well as an AlphaSmart 3000, which is from the same family of products as the Dana. I've enjoyed using the HE-PPK combination, but after hearing about the Dana, I realise the Dana is the next step up for me after the HE-PPK. The HE-PPK works best on a flat surface, whereas the AlphaSmart (and the Dana, too) is literally a laptop - you could perch it on your lap and type without worrying about it falling over, etc.
As for the comment "These full keyboard units keep failing", that's a bit unfair on a new product, and a bit too early to say.
Y'all may want to check out the following post at the AlphaSmart Community Centre Board:
http://www1.alphasmart.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000068
Give the Dana a chance, and watch it fly. Check out its official web site, too:
http://www.flydana.com
RE:
Having said that - it is a good source of information, and it is always interesting to keep an eye on the views and thoughts of the opposition.
Happily trying to sync an iPod, Palm m505, T68i and PowerBook G4. Life is so simple!
Alphasmart & Dana
Some of its advantages are that it is light (2 lb), great battery life (4 AA. . .500+ hours and I still have the same batteries that I started with), and cheap ($200).
I teach at a local college and several of my students have also purchased it. I type much faster than I write.
I decided to try out the Dana. This is what I like about the Dana: light weight (2 lb), uses OS operating system (unlimited programs), larger screen (good for editing), font support, easy to synch to desktop, etc.
Now why would someone want a Dana over a laptop. My major reason is WEIGHT (2 lb). I hate lugging the 6.5 lb laptop around even though I like the color screen, all the applications, power, etc.
I do feel the Dana is a bit pricey $400 (8 meg), no modem. When you start adding cards and modems, it can get expensive. However, for now, I love what it does.
SIZE and WEIGHT is everything to me.
I might add that I also own a desktop and a laptop.
Susan
Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers/specials_m_dimen2300.htm
$399 for Dana is a joke.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
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"WARNING - HOLE IN FLOOR ABOVE DOORWAY BELOW."
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
A school would need to provide power outlets for each student, an I.T. technician for maintenance and updates, a shop area for repairs and software reloads, and a good relationship with their shipping company to deal with returns/exchanges resulting from breakage. These are students, and if the going got rough, the Dell would be needing service before the Dana needed its first recharge.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2063224793
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
Happy Sony Clie User
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
Why the heck do you think there is such a large market for laptops and notebooks when they cost twice as much as a desktop machine! Why? Because there are thousands of people smarter than you with that stupid comparison. The laptop/notebook market is HUGE. And every single one of them are a heck of alot more than $399.
I work in an environment where I have to monitor and keep up a Unix network. I use a Sharp Zaurus because it has all of the networking tools I need to perform network intrusion, detection and administration via SSH. My Sony Clie T615 is great for its small form factor ... and I AM GLAD I bought both of them with a price value of over $600 combined over a $400 desktop PC because I would hate to lug my desktop around the building. And when I lug my $400 PC to another room, im going to have to crawl under a desk to plug the dang thing in ... do some monitoring and edit a spreadsheet or two ... then lug it to the next room doing the WHOLE THING OVER AGAIN. GIVE ME A BREAK.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
Just a pointless comparison.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
There is no small price differential. Even the cheapest decent PC for school use would cost twice as much, and that's not including the huge system administration and maintenance costs. Add in limited classroom space, which makes laptops a better but less reliable solution, plus system administration and maintenance and you're probably talking 6x the cost or more.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
This is a MYTH created by IT Departments in order to increase their budgets, staff, and importance/power within their specific organization. It's all BS.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
> staff, and importance/power within their specific organization. It's all BS.
Schools don't have IT departments, barely a budget to buy computers, and any so called IT staff is typically one or two people for a whole school district.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
Again ... you can't compare the two. Sure .. if you are looking for a computer you get a cheap one for like $400. But thats just it. If you are looking at the Dana you are NOT looking at buying a computer. You are looking at buying something that is portable enough to take with you in a backpack and not bulky enough to be hindering.
That is why I say you cant compare the two. Nobody in their right mind who is looking at getting a computer would get a Dana. They look for cheap computers. And nobody in their RIGHT MIND that is looking for a portable device would ever get a desktop computer.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
I think others have made the point about the need for ease of use and the need for a durable product (I don't see many milspec laptops for $550) One thing that I have not seen is the fact that $399.00 is retail. I suspect that Joe Sixpack school district will get a discount for a bulk order. Another thing, this could cut down on school supplies. I fully recognize that the paperless anything is a myth, but I can see beaming taking the place of handouts and some tests and quizzes for that matter.
Life is a great adventure or nothing.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
OK, well it would've cost at least $1200 in 1996, so make it $1200 then.
Of course, SDIO didn't exist in 1996, nor did USB, and IrDA was still barely in its infancy. Forget 30 hour battery life with a slim form and 2 pound weight as well.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
I do have children in school. No "if," and I think that desktops with all the bells and whistles are a WASTE of MONEY for schools. I want my kids reading books. I want them learning how to apply the scientific method in real experiments (not simulated). I want them learning mathematics (you don't need MathCad until college, Gekko). And I want them to learn how to write and efficiently use their time. Having not seen the Dana, I am not going to laud it's necessity, but your attitude that fancy computers are a must for schools is unfounded and reminds me of dot.com bubble hype.
Being formerly in IT support for schools, I can also assure you that it is no "myth" that such support requires a big chunk of change year in and year out. I am no longer in IT so I don't have a reason to add to any hypothetical "myth." Just the facts. Once a school district invests heavily in computers, then they need continual computer training, updates, repairs and so on. You've got liability issues with regards to viruses. You've got headaches about advertisements appearing on computers. You've got sky-rocketing power bills, and for what gain exactly?
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
Wonder what Average Jane is doing these days...
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
> I suspect that Joe Sixpack school district will get a discount
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
The other thing that makes this hugely different from Dell Desktops for Schools is the power, room and complexity. I know a teacher who has had 12 brand new Imacs sitting in the back of his classroom unopened for over a year. He can't set them up as there is not enough electricity for them. He got them with some of Al Gores education "hook every classroom to the Internet" program. Free Imacs that never get used. Ever.
Not that this would necessarily have fixed that problem. They would have just bought 20 Danas instead of the 10 Imacs and not budgeted money for batteries. Or maybe someone would use them.
I don't think the real question is whether AlphaSmart will sell a fair number of these to schools. They have shown that they can do that with even their current models. The real question to me is whether other consumers will buy them.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
Thanks for a rational post that considers all aspects of the issue.
Gekko: you really need to give this up. It's like you're simply trying to be more forceful in an attempt to seem right just because people disagree with you. You seem really desperate.
I'm a teacher who also happens to work in technology. Let me assure you, there's NO "IT Department" at my school. I'm it. And I teach a full schedule while trying to handle tech duties with about 1 spare hour per day. This for a staff of over 200 teachers, administrators, and support staff. Power? I'm not sure what schools you're talking about, Gekko.
With that in mind, I would say the Dana might be a useful purchase for some of the applications at my school. Obviously, we wouldn't use them for a digital graphics class. But I know plenty of English teachers who would jump at the chance to have a portable lab of, let's say, 35 of these machines that could be used for pretty basic word processing. Machines they could check out to students overnight so they could complete assignments.
I'd like to see a lower price on it, or I'd like to see it with 16mb of memory and a built-in web browser. Plus, I think they should go ahead and LEAVE OUT the PIM apps, unless they see these as being issued to students over the long-term.
RE: Why not get a REAL Computer for a mere $150 more?
If Sony had released it - everyone would be all over it ...
2 SD slots (how many peple bitch and moan about that one?)
2 REAL USB ports for attaching external devices.
No grafitti area.
Full size keyboard.
Rugged enough for throwing into a backpack and taking it to school.
This is NOT a desktop computer. This is NOT a replacement PDA. It is NOT intended to be a web browser. It has the type of apps included that make it a great device for the average high school student to use at their desk. When they get home, they can sync it up, and surf to their heats content.
A lot of people on this board need to get off their high horse about what PalmOS is all about. I wish Dana luck on this ... they have twelve months to sell schools on the concept before the 2003/2004 academic year starts.
[ Time to get off my own high horse and mosey into the bar for a well earned Sasparilla ... ]
~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~
RE: If Sony had released it - everyone would be all over it ...
There is a private high school in North Carolina that actually REQUIRES all high school students to own a PalmOS device (3.5 or greater) and to use it during class for tests and the like. This would be an ideal device for them to use during tests, or for note-taking during class to synch with their PDA at the end of class. Also great for checking your email just prior to leaving school without having to unpack your backpack.
http://www.fcds.org/news/Plain_Dealer_Palm_article.htm
Ick
RE: If Sony had released it - everyone would be all over it
It has dual SD slots, that means one could add a wireless connection card and a memory card to it simultaneously.
It also has USB ports. I just wonder how many USB devices would have drivers for it. It would be cool if it supports a USB mouse, that would probably be the first Palm OS device with a mouse?
I just wonder how a standard Palm 160x160 application will look on it.
--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: If Sony had released it - everyone would be all over it
On-screen Entry: On-screen entry uses Graffiti® in the WritePad area and can be configured for right- and left-handed users.
--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: If Sony had released it - everyone would be all over it ...
This Palm unit might make it if there were some kind of screen protection.
"Palm Pilots"
That article is pretty interesting. As a senior in high school, in NC no less, I wish they would do something like this in my classes.
Though... why does the reporter still call them "Palm Pilots"? I would understand if it was written a year ago, but this was written this month. It will never end.
I had something like this once
eMate 300
Heck, even I want one. No one could look at that screenshot of Quicksheet and *not* want one :-)
RE: eMate 300
RE: eMate 300
I don't see how much of a market there is for a device like this. Apple ended up dropping the eMate (didn't it run the Newton OS?).
Here is a link to the eMate. It's a lot like this device.
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/messagepad/stats/emate_300.html
Eston Bond
CEO Pine Tree Software
RE: eMate 300
AlphaSmart is not Apple, and I'm sure they did their homework to know there is a market for the Dana. What is the basis for your comment?
RE: eMate 300
I think the Dana will soon be coming to a school near you.
Almost There
There are a half dozen companies that make them. Laser PC, Quikpad, etc.
It needed a color screen and a size reduction to 1 by 8.5 by 11 inches.
Now, it also needs OS 5.
But with those additions I would have paid $400 for it. As it is I just got a NR70V and would more likely just get a Stowaway for the Clie.
But, lots of companies, schools, and individual information workers will find uses for the Dana.
The big improvements it has over the old CE, proprietary, and Newton OS predecessors is that it has a huge software library.
RE: Almost There
Why? What does OS5 give the end user that Sony, Handspring or Handera wasn't doing in OS4.x or even OS 3.5?
RE: Almost There
EdH @ 10/20/2002 9:28:20 AM
>Now, it also needs OS 5.
Why? What does OS5 give the end user that Sony, Handspring or Handera wasn't doing in OS4.x or even OS 3.5"
A future. Especially if they made it color. Several software companies have already announced OS 5 versions of their software, notably Acid Software. Sony has new full-screen versions of their stuff. With an OS 5 Dana one could swap files directly from the ....... oh bugger, there are the Memory Sticks vs MMC cards!
Seriously, I think we will see luscious new versions of most Palm suites, some amazing photo editing software, and web browsers that don't just clip text, but actually show web pages. Now, of all those things all I really do is word processing and photo manipulating, but many others do more. The new OS and it's access to the ARMS power will bring stuff that may surprise us all.
One important thing missing is built-in modem
RE: One important thing missing is built-in modem
nice form factor, lousy everything else
RE: nice form factor, lousy everything else
RE: nice form factor, lousy everything else
What's there to "deal with"? A well-implemented emulator is completely transparent.
The real question here is: what good is PalmOS for this? There is plenty of educational software for Apple II, DOS, Mac68k, even UNIX, software that could run great on a low-end device like this. But PalmOS?
RE: nice form factor, lousy everything else
RE: nice form factor, lousy everything else
TRS-80 Model-100
How much was a Model-100 brand new? 3 lbs., 8-bit CPU, 300 baud modem and 48k of memory? (and software personally written by Mr. Bill Gates.)
RE: TRS-80 Model-100
There have been lots of them, but the Model 100 was about the only one that sold substantially outside the schools. Too bad, I wanted one for the longest time, and would have paid $400 for the Dana......three years ago.
RE: TRS-80 Model-100
Cool fact: The Model 100/102 were originally created by Kyocera in Japan, and sold rebranded here in the US. Their software was developed by Microsoft. It is rumored that the BASIC for this device was the last big application that Bill Gates worked on as the primary developer. Kyocera is now a Palm OS licensee with their 6035 and 7135 smartphones, which are sold through many places, including Radio Shack stores.
Lots of fun Model 100 info at http://www.club100.org/index.html. The Dana looks to be the spiritual successor to this, running a much faster chip, with a much better OS.
--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: TRS-80 Model-100
Timex Sinclair 1000
Timex Sinclair 1000 - A memorium
...And I remember when they were selling for $20 with a free 16k expansion pack two years later.
...And I remember seeing one in a pawn shop last week - The guy wanted $5 for it, which was IMO, highway robbery. :)
My, how technology changes.
Palms in Education
Schools have been struggling with the problem of how to include computers as part of the curriculum since the 1980's. Until recently, the only real issue was cost---now, security and privacy are stepping up in importance. A product like the Dana is remarkably inexpensive for schools, not because of it's price tag (which is admittedly steep) but because of it's low maintenece costs. I would venture that most AlphaSmart's (Dana and all her precursors) will have passed from student to student for five or six years before any technology support staff has to perform any mainteneance whatsoever.
As versitile and powerful as desktop computers and laptops are, the cost to maintain them is enormous, and it's even larger among young users who tend to treat them a little more roughly. How many times have you had to reinstall your PalmOS? How many times have drivers for your peripherals suddenly stopped working and to be reinstalled? How many times has your Palm crashed (when you weren't running beta software or writing your own apps)? How many times have you lost critical data on your Palm inexplicably? These things just don't happen with the same frequency on Palms as they do on PC's. That represents a real advantage of the Dana over a laptop.
Everything about the AlphaSmart line, combined with core functions of the Palm like the PIM apps and eBooks, makes the Dana ideal for school markets. I predict, that with the right marketing campaign and good software support from the educational community, that the Dana will become one the most successful Palm OS devices ever produced.
Palm Researcher at the University of Texas at Austin
http://www.edb.utexas.edu/petrosino/pda
RE: Palms in Education
RE: Palms in Education
--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: Palms in Education
Happy Sony Clie User
RE: Palms in Education
it's = it is
its = possessive
Alphasmarts = plural
Alphasmart's = possessive
Sorry, I couldn't pass up a comment on this; these grammatical errors are far too common!!
BTW, I love the idea of 160*560 screen. Using a spreadsheet on a 160*160 screen is brutal!!
RE: Palms in Education
Tony
--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
New Trend?
Two SD slots in a Palm device, a Palm branded device no less. Here's hoping that this is a trend and not an anomaly!
RE: New Trend?
-Bartman007
This looks great for clinical work
The Dana has better screen dimensions [I'd like to take a baseball bat to the idiots who decided on the PalmOS screen factors], doesn't take two days to boot [MacOS, Wintel] a built-in keyboard, sturdy design [wonder if it will hold up to some kid ralphing on it?], probably fairly good battery life [3 AA vice, my 4 AAAs], and can fit into my labcoat pocket.
It needs to come down in price though. <=$299 would be about right.
I'd like to see a PalmOS device [not necessarily from Palm, Inc.] that has the screen resolution of my circa 1993 Newton 110. It would be a step in the right direction for commercial PalmOS use. [the other thing would be inductrial design, are Sony/HandEra/Palm devices flimsy or what?]
BTW, I didn't see in the Palm.com description 2 USB ports.
RE: This looks great for clinical work
--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: This looks great for clinical work
"The Dana has better screen dimensions [I'd like to take a baseball bat to the idiots who decided on the PalmOS screen factors], doesn't take two days to boot [MacOS, Wintel] a built-in keyboard, sturdy design [wonder if it will hold up to some kid ralphing on it?], probably fairly good battery life [3 AA vice, my 4 AAAs], and can fit into my labcoat pocket."
The test reports indicate 25 hours' battery life with the backlight on.
At 1.9" H x 12.4 " W x 9.3" D, I doubt the Dana can fit into your labcoat pocket. :)
$299 would be the number for me!
Direct link
http://store.palm.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1209839
Atul Chitnis
http://atulchitnis.net
RE: Direct link
RE: Direct link
Pricing, performance, etc...
As far as performance, I imagine that this thing is better by several orders of magnitudes as far as ruggedness and battery life are concerned. The only thing I can see here that the e-mate had over this was keyboard protection. (And hopefully the PalmOS was a little less confusing/cryptic than the OS on the e-mate I spent a week with last year.)
Personally, I've often thought near-modern design on laptops was kind of retarded. Who cares about DVD/Firewire/32bit color depth/graphic engine if you have to plug it into the wall every two hours? I thought the whole point of having a portable computer was that it be PORTABLE? To me, carrying around a power supply/extra batteries/cables/other crap makes it LESS portable, not more.
I think they've got a decent idea. If they package it with QuickOffice, or some other MS-Office(ugh) interface, it should be truly groovi.
RE: Pricing, performance, etc...
They do package the device with QuickOffice, which also has been modified to work on the wide-screen.
Tony
--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
Why is this being sold through Palm?
Scott
RE: Why is this being sold through Palm?
RE: Why is this being sold through Palm?
Developer Tools
RE: Developer Tools
http://www1.alphasmart.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=000001
RE: Developer Tools
this vs. normal palm + keyboard
But still, I'm not sure if this is much better than, say, my current Palm IIIc plus one of those folding keyboards. Yes, it has more screen real estate, and therefore is a much bette canidate for word processing, but still, since there's a tradeoff that you don't have a seperate PDA to put in your pocket...
I wonder, did my circa-1998 "dream app" for Palm ever get written, a progrm that lets you type and doodle graphical notes in the same document? (even if the 'doodles' were trapped in little embedded boxes). I've seen programs that kind of let you link sketches and documents, but that's not the same...
RE: this vs. normal palm + keyboard
There is a program from TealDoc called TealNote (I think) that allows you to create and place a note in about any text program (WordSmith for instance). It will even link to TealPaint to allow you to use all the graphics features of that powerhouse.
But, if you want to mix editable drawings on the same page as text and manipulate them with fonts and such. Well, you can't even do that on a 400 MZ PPC yet. TextWare has a new word processort that may allow it next month, but as of right now. No, not even on PPC.
This may not be the place to discuss this at length. You might think of doing it on a PPC with Pocket Artist. But, that is not really a word processing program.
And I wonder why my 16 MZ Mako allowed this when no other PDA really does. If you really want to mix graphics in word processing files on a sub-notebook, Psion sells a small clamshell notebook through what is left of their hardware company, Tellegenix (sp.)
Whew, that was an odd diversion.
RE: this vs. normal palm + keyboard
(I don't really like the way the software doesn't allow you to read from the original message or edit you post. oh well.)
RE: this vs. normal palm + keyboard
Is there a corresponding desktop application?
Anyway to get to the images from your PC?
RE: this vs. normal palm + keyboard
If you really wanted to do it right, you would get TealDOc, TealPaint, and Teal Note and then you should be able to do it all from there.
There is a new program out this week from overseas called PowerNote that is also designed to do exactly what you used to want. It is $20 and they don't offer a trial. I don't care to risk that much on a program that could be worthless for all I know.
DiddleBug and WordSmith work great for me. But DiddleBug does not sync so far as I can tell, so you can't work with them on the desktop.
Missing the point
1) Price. Even $150 less than the competition is considerable for institutional sales. And it is more like $450 less if you consider a laptop as an option.
2) Simplicity. It will perform the basic functions students need for writing papers and scientific calculations without the complexity of a desktop computer.
3) Durability. If the OS does crash, you can simply hard-reset the unit to restore full functionality.
4) Weight. 2 lbs is a lot more likely to be easily carried by 9 year olds around town.
5) Flexibility. The connectivity options are scalable: The teacher could simply beam the assignments from another Palm device, you could have a computer ho hotsync, or you could use Bluetooth cards or some similar network technology. My point is that it would be viable with different levels of infrastructure, from the minimalist to integrated networking.
I really do think this is a good device for grade school kids. It's a solution that even the teacher could maintain without much technical help.
RE: Missing the point
If I was in school, college even, I think it would be best to have something like this to take with me, and then that $650 desktop PC that has been mentioned. Total just over a grand, with a lot of flexibility and performance. That setup makes sense.
People seem to forget that Palm OS-devices really are pretty powerful computers when you consider everything. I bet these things would be great for doctor's offices and for clinics in third world countries. The 'clipboard' idea actually looks worthwhile. The amount of data that you could collect is far greater than with a regular Palm, and the added screen space makes spreadsheets and word processing really viable.
I wonder if communication peripherals and a web browser/mail solution are being considered. EudoraWeb/E-Mail would work well with this if modified for the screen.
Could USB modems or ethernet adaptors work? Hmm...
I think this is the type of computing device the world needs, something that has simplicity and environmental economy beyond 4-hour battery life. It won't replace my Powerbook, but it would be better for my kid than a Powerbook.
RE: Missing the point
There's a post on their website that implies there will be support for certain USB modems within a couple months. I hope they decide to add wired Ethernet support as well.
Since they got support from HandEra doing the large display, they should've licensed their CF card support as well and had one CF and one SD slot. It would have given them a lot more options for expansion, out of the box. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if CF expansions are slightly more power efficient than their USB counterparts.
RE: Missing the point
dana as a research tool
Still, you see the idea.
And, i wonder what the cost-effectiveness of one of these is over time...like, using a dana to transfer articles vs keeping a copy machine stocked and running...its a matter of the initial 399 investment versus maitenance on a machine that needs to be available for students...not that dana could replace them entirely, but certianly make that one extra one unnecessary. And speaking as a former student government kid, copy ink is expensive and difficult to deal with...copiers are much more finicky than palm os.
--carly
RE: dana as a research tool
RE: dana as a research tool
RE: All it needs is a floppy drive
RE: All it needs is a floppy drive
One thing you may not know -- the device can act like a USB keyboard as well. If you need to upload a document to a PC, you can hook it up, run the keyboard emulator, and have it "type" your documents to the PC. This is a feature it shared with the earlier AlphaSmart 3000 device.
--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: All it needs is a floppy drive
Floppy Disk capacity = 1.44 MB
SD Card capacity = 8.00 MB
USB Floppy disk drive= big bucks
SD Card = small bucks
SD Card Reader = small bucks
Hmmmm - not studying economics then?
mrscarey
palmist and visionary
Most of you do not get it
1. Dana is a product name. The Dana is made by AlphaSmart, Inc. which also makes a product called the AlphaSmart 3000.
2. I'd bet serious money that most of you would have been incredibly critical of the AlphaSmart when it first appeared (simple battery operated keyboard for writing) talking about Radio Shack model 100 and Timex Sinclair, etc. Well, there are over a million AlphaSmarts in the world. They are used by students, writers, journalists, and other professionals. I'm not saying this gives AlphaSmart, Inc. a crystal ball on which devices will fly but it gives them maybe a tad more credibility than many of you.
3. As some of you have noted, they decided on Palm OS for Dana because there's already an established software base for it and Palm OS devices are starting to show up in schools.
Given the number of you who use Stowaway or other keyboards on your PDAs and the number of people who choose to write with an AlphaSmart (full size keyboard) over a PDA the Dana is an interesting product that may fill a need. We don't know yet, it just started shipping.
4. I've spent some time with the Dana and I can tell you this:
- its sturdier than any PDA I know of (you can drop it from 4 feet)
- The Dana keyboard is quite nice for touch typing. Better in fact than an AlphaSmart.
- As a Palm/Stowaway user, I can tell you that you must have a flat surface to use a folding keyboard and they are fragile (cool engineering though). Dana can be put on a knee, on the ground, on any surface to type. This is very meaningful and a real difference if you plan to use a keyboard for text entry rather than a stylus or your computer and a sync. If you only occasionally use a keyboard with a PDA than maybe Dana is not for you. However, how do you know the reason you don't use a keyboard with a PDA more isn't because the Stowaway is so fragile and can't be used everywhere?
- AlphaSmart has modified many of the core Palm apps to take advantage of the wider screen and are releasing the new screen API to the developer community in the next week.
5. Will I toss my G4 out the window to use Dana full time? No and I doubt many of you have tossed your computers even though you use PDAs. However, there is a need as many of you have noted for a product that falls in between a PDA and a computer. Some folks see less expensive laptops like iBooks or cheap Windows machines filling that niche and for some that may be the answer (the state of Maine, for instance) but for others Dana will be an interesting alternative.
5. AlphaSmart, Inc. is not a backwater company; it's an incredibly well run company with some very smart, well connected folks at the helm. They do get it, whether or not Dana flies. They already have a very successful product as proof.
Give the product a chance. Many of you sound like you're worried it might prove successful and you might want one.
AlphaSmart 3000
alexp
You may want to check out the AlphaSmart 3000 for the uses mentioned above. It's from the same company that makes the Dana, and is meant specifically for writing. It's also cheaper, and many schools and libraries use it in the same way you suggested - allowing students and library users to check it out overnight.
There's a loaner programme available to let you try it out before deciding to buy. There are also discounts to schools for bulk purchases. Plus a Community Centre discussion board at the web site so you can read about what other schools and libraries have used it for, as well as ask any questions.
The loaner programme info is here:
http://www.alphasmart.com/ordering/evaluation.html
The Community Centre Board is here:
http://www1.alphasmart.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
nytimes circuits article about alphasmart and new dana
for more information on the dana, see:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I37D21CE2
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