Comments on: Palm Regains Lead and Shipments Up in W. Europe

The latest report out of Dataquest, a division of Gartner, said that PDA shipments in Western Europe are up 15% compared with the same quarter last year. Shipments of all PDAs to the area totalled 496,000 units in the third quarter. This follows four quarters of successive year-on-year declines.
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Link to European PDA report?

Palm_Otaku @ 10/22/2002 4:47:13 PM #
Hey Ryan, do you have a link? Was there any additional information about handheld manufacturers other than Palm Inc. and hp?

Inquiring minds want to know :-)

- Dan

RE: Link to European PDA report?
orol @ 10/22/2002 4:54:03 PM #
i found some tables:

http://kanez.sk/Q3_01.gif
http://kanez.sk/Q3_02.gif

btw. don't get confused by the big market share of symbian devices ... the reason is nokia 7650, which is sold very well over the europe

RE: Link to European PDA report?
Admin @ 10/22/2002 4:57:01 PM #
Here is the press release:
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/021021/1200000585_2.html

Unfortunately, there is not much info other than what I already covered.

There is a ton of info in Palms latest SEC Quarterly Report:
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/021011/palmd10-q.html

RE: Link to European PDA report?
Token User @ 10/22/2002 5:09:29 PM #
btw. don't get confused by the big market share of symbian devices ... the reason is nokia 7650, which is sold very well over the europeInteresting tables, but note that they are not specifc to the PDA market, but include phoens, smartphones, and other "hand held devices".

It used to be simple .. . Gartner/Dataquest/IDG/etc used to publish seperate "PDA" and "cellphone" charts. But with a number of devices, that destinction is blurring.

Should there be a new "Smartphone" category for devices, or should they allow some devices to live in both the PDA and Cellular world?

~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

RE: Link to European PDA report?
OcellNuri @ 10/22/2002 6:01:06 PM #
Yea, but then what happens when you have units that can be expanded to have wireless? Like the NX or Tungsten with Bluetooth? Do you say that a Smartphone must have voice? Does that make the Tungsten W a smartphone... even though you have to use a headset to do voice? The lines are indeed very blurred. It's great to watch convergence actually take place.

It's "Ocell" for short.

So many confusing reports...

gfunkmagic @ 10/22/2002 5:20:10 PM #
If this is indeed true, then what about the report that Symbian is the leading OS in Europe?

http://brighthand.com/article/EMEA_Q3_2002

RE: So many confusing reports...
Autometic @ 10/22/2002 5:52:12 PM #
Confusing if you start to include everything that has some sort of software in it.


In case you have lived outside the solar system for the last few years, Nokia is a company that develops mobile phones and this specific Nokia is also not a pda, it is a phone!

The only exception might be the communicator which does not nearly sell as well as the 7650!



RE: So many confusing reports...
Zuber @ 10/23/2002 2:34:38 AM #
I think the the Nokia 7650 has far more of a PDA than say the Zire. I bet the bottom end Palm devices are counted as PDAs though.

Please remind me that the Zire could do that the 7650 could not that makes it PDA. I am not talking about the fact that someone has not written the software for it yet. Palms have been around a lot longer.

Just to clarify,

You can now get the following for the 7650.

Web Browsing, check email, standard PIM apps. Games, List and Outliner Programs, etc.

You can write apps. for it using Java and C++.

These things are blurred and the distiction between Phone and PDA will continue to be blurred.

RE: So many confusing reports...
Altema @ 10/23/2002 6:54:46 AM #
"I think the the Nokia 7650 has far more of a PDA than say the Zire."

In regards to bells and whistles, yes, but you won't see the 7650 in a blister pack for $89 either. If I had the Zire, it would still be easier for email and web browsing (yes, I did that on a IIIe which is the same minus two buttons and backlight). Entering text on the Nokia is downright painful, and I usually do the web browsing in text mode. To make things easier, I'll use the phone as a modem and connect with my Palm instead... it's faster and more satisfying. The phone PIM is also lacking on ease of use. Games? The kids can tolerate them ever since I stopped letting them play on my Palm, but they usually play them for a while then hand the phone back. I always had to ask for the Palm back.

RE: So many confusing reports...
Zuber @ 10/23/2002 7:20:41 AM #
We are now in the realms of subjective arguments.

Point I am making is that people can't simply say that the 7650 is not a PDA and therefore dismiss it because they like the idea of Palm "winning" in terms of market share.

Zuber

RE: So many confusing reports...
Token User @ 10/23/2002 11:10:54 AM #
Point I am making is that people can't simply say that the 7650 is not a PDA and therefore dismiss it because they like the idea of Palm "winning" in terms of market share.

The big problem is that with reports that include cellphones and PDAs in a single mix, you start to get skewed results. Of course a cellphone sold for $50 after activation, rebates, and a two year contract will have a greater market penetration than a PDA for $400.

A figure quoted at the BREW developers conference earlier this year said that on average, cellphone users upgrade their phones every 18 months, so manufacturers need to embed more compelling features to help drive this cycle. I do not know what the average upgrade period is for a PDA user (excluding Sony users - they seem to upgrade every two months when a new model comes along 8^), but I have a Palm VII from 1999 I use for development, and a Visor Deluxe from 1998 that is still my "daily driver".

So to drive the markets cellphone companies are delivering more PDA style functionality in even basic models - PIM, Address Books. From the other direction, to drive the PDA market, PDA makers are adding more and more wireless capability.

The end result is that we are getting a convergence of devices from different directions, and ending up with data centric and phone centric smartphones. These should be pulled into a seperate category for tracking purposes ... it would be far more interesting to see an overall comparison of declinig PDA and cellphone sales, with a corresponding rise in smartphones sales.



~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

RE: So many confusing reports...
Zuber @ 10/23/2002 11:42:03 AM #
I'm loosing the plot now (and the will to live) :)

I tend to replace my "PDA" around 12 - 18 Months. I suspect that that is quite a common sweetspot.

Simple question,

What market or markets (multiple allowed) do the following fall into. I know some arn't available yet.

Palm M505
Sony NV70
Handspring Treo
Nokia 92XX
Nokia 7650
Nokia 3650
SonyEricsson P800
Microsofts New "Smartphone" (don't know what it is called yet)
XDA
Fujitsu Siemens Loox

To me, the overlaps are so big, it would be difficult to make really clear distictions.

Oh, and what was the point of this discussion anyway.

Zuber

Stories like this aren't the same without I.M. Anonymous

JonAcheson @ 10/23/2002 2:04:55 PM #
...And that's a good thing.

Jon Acheson


"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: Stories like this aren't the same without I.M. Anonymous
Zuber @ 10/24/2002 2:45:51 AM #
I used to quite enjoy reading the mine is better than yours discussions. Particularly where you would get the ones that would be willing to die for "their" OS company.

More importantly though, you got an alternative viewpoint from time to time as a reality check. On the whole, you are probably right I guess.

Zuber

RE: Stories like this aren't the same without I.M. Anonymous
JonAcheson @ 10/24/2002 12:10:55 PM #
I don't know, Zuber, sometimes it just seemed like people were reusing the same old arguments that had no connection to reality in the first place.

I think the signal-to-noise ratio has cleaned up immensely.

Jon Acheson


"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: Stories like this aren't the same without I.M. Anonymous
Gekko @ 10/24/2002 12:35:10 PM #
I miss the Anonymous posting. Not for my own use, but more for reading all of the raw commentary. The quanity and the quality of posts has declined. I miss it.


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