Comments on: Updated: More Details About Palm OS 6
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RE: Shennanigans
RE: Shennanigans
RE: Shennanigans
RE: Shennanigans
RE: Shennanigans
RE: Shennanigans
Yeah! OS 6 will not have any teething problems. Except we can't be sure if any pre-OS 6 software will work on handhelds running OS 6.
RE: Shennanigans
"
Palm released most of this info more than a year ago. Search through PIC's archives. People making handheld purchases either knew about this already and will either wait for OS 6 devices or will purchase OS 5 devices because they are useful. People who don't know about Be's team working at Palm really should stick to OS 4 or PPC.
RE: Shennanigans
Will OS 5 be upgradeable to OS 6? I think that chances are good with Tungsten T that it will be. It has the necessary horse power, flashable ROM (albeit a bit small, some built-in apps may have to move to RAM), and Palm's history shows that they've committed to this in the past. Sony is a different story (just looking at their history).
SR
RE: Shennanigans
Christmas is coming. No matter what Palm says about PalmOS 6, I'm sure many stockings will be filled with what's available now. (Pity that they'll be a couple months late with the Tungsten W!)
Jim
-------
James Sorenson
Upgrading to OS 6
Whether licensees will offer upgrades, though, depends; Palm SG, at least, is inheriting a good track record from Palm Inc; let's hope they maintain it.
.NET compatible
Does this mean we'll be able to run programs made for .NET (of the Compact Framework) on OS6?
_____
Fammy
RE: .NET compatible
RE: .NET compatible
Seán
RE: .NET compatible
Adios to zen of Palm? OS 6 is not simply .Net for Palm - though it will (apparently) contain that as 1 feature. OS 6 will have its own API - obviously designed as an extension / improvement on the existing OS 5. When Java came into existance (years ago now)there were those that said 'it looks like it's adios for windows and mac os' - obviously that didn't happen. And the comparison is a valid one - .Net borrows it's runtime enviroment approach from java. What this means is that - in theory - Palm users will be able to tap into .Net software. But there will continue to be a preference for (and market for) Palm OS optimized code.
RE: .NET compatible
Taking a ".PALM" approach could be an asset to the PPC community as well.
~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~
RE: .NET compatible
Long live Zen and the art of OS maintenance!
FBN
RE: .NET compatible
"More robust security featues"
RE: Security
"I just tested this with Filez and the memo data file is still plain-text, even with records set to "private".
IIRC, the reason why PalmSource talks about cryptography in OS5 is because there's now a built-in crypto library which developers can use in their own applications; Palm hasn't gone and actually added encryption to the built-in apps, they've just made it easier for developers to add crypto to theirs."
Don't buy OS5
RE: Don't buy OS5
The builtin bluetooth support? The 300 FPS+ video playback? The audio support? The hires support? Even faster PIM apps?
RE: Don't buy OS5
1. removal of 4k limit in memo
2. unlimited or larger clipboard buffer
3. native PIM encryption security
4. 32-64MB RAM
I will still buy a TT, but c'mon, these aren't rocket science.
RE: Don't buy OS5
"Slightly increased speed"
I have one of these Tungstens and it is blazingly fast, even compared to my NR70 at 66 mhz.
RE: Don't buy OS5
Buy OS5 now, get a good two years use 2003 & 2004 then buy a second-generation OS6 device at the end of 2004. I can still enjoy the screaming fun of OS5 and have something to look forward to.
cheers
matt
RE: Don't buy OS5
Wonder how many programs will be incmopatible with OS6 -- or will they do some more EMU on the legacy apps.?
RE: Don't buy OS5
RE: Don't buy OS5
I don't think these talks have anything to do with the status of Palm OS 5, which is just too early to say.
RE: Don't buy OS5
Cheers,
RE: OS5 diappointing (Was: Don't buy OS5)
What about OS5 is disappointing?
The builtin bluetooth support? The 300 FPS+ video playback? The audio support? The hires support? Even faster PIM apps?
Those are all features of the TT hardware, not OS5 itself.
In fact, OS 5 is very disappointing. It's not more than an ARM port of OS 4.x, san traps for hacks. Even the NotePad stil has the same 4k limitation.
I haven't check the OS5 SDK yet, but I can safely assume that OS5 is a straight port of OS4.x, designed to run 68k apps only (with emulation, of course).
This is actually a good thing I think. If software today ships in both native ARM binaries and classic 68k binaries, it'd probably create a lot of confusion among the average users.
The TT is still a great piece of hardware. Hope it'll be upgradable to OS6 (and I think it will).
As nbig a change as OS X?
Sorry... Mac user, still having some issues....
RE: As nbig a change as OS X?
You may be having some problems, many people still have complaints which are being worked on, but OS X has helped the platform a lot, especially in terms of adoption among people who would never consider it before. I'd expect a potentially similar adoption rate for OS 6 devices from people who wouldn't consider Palm OS before.
-Mandroid
Flash ROM
Upgrade 5 to 6? Meh. Who cares at this point.
If this mirrored the Windoze world a bit more, then I'd agree. Even so, many are happy to run Windows 98SE than three generations up... Windows XP. Otherwise, there really isn't much concern over if you could upgrade 5 to 6. It's all but reserved to the 'geeks' (like me) that would care. The average joe wouldn't give a damn whether it could be upgraded. Then again, the average joe would have bought a Zire hehe :)
RE: Upgrade 5 to 6? Meh. Who cares at this point.
PalmOS 5 upgradable to PalmOS 6
Maybe a stupid questions, but anyway. If I buy the new cool Tungsten T, will I be able to upgrade to PalmOS 6?
RE: PalmOS 5 upgradable to PalmOS 6
Now if the ability to upgrade to the future OS 6 is going to be a make or break issue for you on whether to buy the Tungsten T or not, I’d say don’t get it. You may end up being disappointed.
Me, I’m getting one regardless. If they offer a upgrade, it will be a happy surprise, and if they don’t I won’t be disappointed.
RE: PalmOS 5 upgradable to PalmOS 6
RE: PalmOS 5 upgradable to PalmOS 6
As an footnote: I have an original pilot 5000 with the "2MB Upgrade Card" flashed to the latest OS4.1, so unlike other handheld platforms that I won't name, future-proofing on PalmOS high-end devices has a decent track record.
- Dan
RE: PalmOS 5 upgradable to PalmOS 6
1. As u stated, all Palm with Flash ROM has been upgradable (even when it's not officially supported by Palm).
2. It's very likely that the PalmSource OS team is writing OS6 for TT specificly right now. (If you're writing a new OS that's already late to maarket. what hardware would you write for? A product that's already shipping and available for debugging and wide-scale beta testing? Or some prototype over @ R&D?)
3. That "prototype @ R&D" at Palm is just an evolution of the current TT anyways. If OS6 runs on that, it should run on the TT.
Of course, OS6 is still in development, the final release might not fit in 4MB. However, I strongly believe that the OS6 team is using the TT for development interally.
In conclusion, I personally speculate that if OS6 ships no later than Q2/2004, there's a 80% chance that TT will be upgradable to OS6.
Slightly off topic, but interesting...
"Earlier this week, Gartner Dataquest released figures for worldwide and handheld shipments during the third quarter of this year. Today, it released a correction, as the previous report overstated how many units Hewlett-Packard shipped.
"HP's worldwide shipment numbers have been lowered by 89,000 (approximately 23 percent) from previous estimates due to a discrepancy in its earlier tabulations," said Todd Kort, principal analyst for Gartner Dataquest. "Based on this new information, market growth rates have declined, showing that the PDA industry is struggling more than previously reported."
Total shipments worldwide decreased by 2.4% compared with the same quarter in 2002 and shipments in the U.S. decreased by 1.4%. Previously, Dataquest said shipments had increased both globally and in the U.S.
Palm Inc. is still the leader is worldwide shipments, with 31.7% of the total. This is an increase from the 28.8% it had in the third quarter of last year. Palm shipped 808.8 thousand units during the quarter, a 7.2% annual increase.
With the restatement in the number of units HP shipped, Sony moves up to second place. It had 13.5% of the market, making a huge jump up from 3.5% in the same quarter in 2001. Its number of handhelds shipped increased 280% to about 345 thousand units.
HP is now in third place with 11.5% of the total, down from 12.1%. It shipped 292.9 thousand handhelds last quarter, a 7.9% decrease from the same quarter of 2001.
Toshiba is another company that saw huge growth in the last year. It shipped 144.3 thousand units during the third quarter, a 1,705% increase. That was enough to put it in fourth place with 5.7% of the market.
In fifth place was Handspring, which now holds just 3.9% of the handheld market."
Go Palm...Go Sony!
Palm needs to worry about Toshiba!
Just my 2 cents
RE: Slightly off topic, but interesting...
(I've got that Friday feeling... whooooaaah that Friday feeling....).
FBN
RE: Slightly off topic, but interesting...
rah rah....Palm Inc rule the world.
PS. ever wonder what is in the "other" category?
RE: Slightly off topic, but interesting...
"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown
RE: Slightly off topic, but interesting...
But maybe they can do a Palm OS in parallel development, but if Palm decided to drop Acer's A600, what's the chance they gonna pick up Toshiba?
RE: Slightly off topic, but interesting...
Hmm, well the "top 5" have about 66.3% of the market so the other third is divided between a couple dozen other vendors from various platforms, who would have about 1-2% each on average.
- Dan
PS Having tracked market share results for a few years, I'd caution PIC readers to take anything from Gartner Dataquest with a grain of salt, IDC reports have more valid methods of data collection.
What, Palm worry?
"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown
Answers to questions
I wanted to comment on a couple of things...
>>PalmSource's Chief Competitive Officer, Mike Mace, says that we'll likely see a phased beta program with interim releases.
Need to correct this one. By interim releases, I meant there's the potential for dot-releases along the way, not an extended beta program. So you might see a dot-release of the OS with some of these features ahead of the full release.
The reason for mentioning this now is so that if there is an interim release, people won't think we just blew up the whole road map. The work's modular and we can change the priorities on some features.
>>Mace also said PalmSource intended the make the new OS Microsoft .NET compatible, and will likely partner with others to provide a run time for the platform.
Interoperating with .Net is a very complex proposition. We want to interoperate with web services in general, and we'll do our best to provide as much interoperability with .Net as Microsoft will allow -- but that might mean connecting in at lower levels than some people here are assuming (ie, through SOAP and XML). There are also other web services architectures that we want to interoperate with. Stay tuned.
>>I hope that MAYBE OS6 will only be a matter of software upgrades.
Generally, the answer is yes. We're designing Palm OS 6 to be upgradable onto Palm OS 5 hardware. In other words, we're looking at the footprint of products like the Palm Tungsten T and we intend to work within those constraints.
But responsibility for delivering the updgrade belongs to the hardware manufacturer. Because our licensees tweak the OS for their hardware, we can't just release a blanket upgrade the way Microsoft does for Windows. It's up to the licensees to decide if they want to offer an upgrade, so you need to ask them what their plans are.
>>We can't be sure if any pre-OS 6 software will work on handhelds running OS 6.
Actually, Palm OS 6 will include the same sort of software emulator as we have in Palm OS 5. So properly-written existing apps should continue to run.
>>The target audience of Palm OS 6 stuffs is analysts, financial/investment analysts, not Palm users like you and me.
It's not a matter of hyping the stock. Corporate IT managers and developers have to make long-term commitments to a platform, and they have been asking for more information about our long-term plans.
Mike
CCO, PalmSource
RE: Answers to questions
But responsibility for delivering the updgrade belongs to the hardware manufacturer. Because our licensees tweak the OS for their hardware, we can't just release a blanket upgrade the way Microsoft does for Windows. It's up to the licensees to decide if they want to offer an upgrade, so you need to ask them what their plans are.
----------
Is Palm Inc. itself promising Tungsten T will be upgradable to OS 6.0? Will somebody Tungsten owner be able to purchase OS6.0 and make it run on the unit? (Or are you speaking as a representation from Palmsource with no authority to speak of the matter)
RE: Answers to questions
Mike
CCO, PalmSource
RE: Answers to questions
-how far will Palm source dictates minimum requirement of hardware? Or will licensee for PDA can add whatever hardware feature they like so that in the end application has to be develop specifically for each model of PDA. (eg. D-pad, DSP accel, screen size, various slots. Obviously a game design to run with D-pad will have to use alternative control in NX, etc.)
-who is responsible to write CF memory driver? (ie. odes Palm source has a program to help driver be written faster for CF, SD/IO, or varius other peripherals)
Thanks
RE: Answers to questions
Are you planning to include native virtual graffiti in the palm OS? If so when?, if not why?
_______________________________________
Nothing: the worst you can do.
RE: Answers to questions
RE: Answers to questions
My only concern is the "point" release possiblity you mention. OS 5 was orginally going to be the "big step" for the OS to a new GUI, full ARM, enhanced PIM etc. but that was eventually decided to be spread out over 2 releases to ease the transition and to prevent biting off more than you can chew. As a new Tungsten T owner I think you made the right choice as this gives a way to allow developers to work with ARM while at the same time get ARM capable machines into the hands of users. That said, it also means the time line of a real change to the OS that the user can see, other than multimedia apps, was delayed by more than a year. The possiblity of point releases that spread out very necessary changes such as enhanced PIM apps, multithreading apps, enhanced GUI, full ARM apps over "point releases" that may take much longer than the claimed 6-12 month span between OS 5 and 6 is a huge disappointment that only furthers the claim of Palm being slow in innovation and lacking frontline technology while now for the first time claiming some of the highest prices in the market.
That said, clearly the Tungsten T is a winner, the multimedia enhancements are no joke, and Palm has given themselves some breathing room. I am a non-programmer who has the luxury of sitting back and telling you what to do when of course I couldn't do it at all myself. Of course as you can see in my signature I am also the very market you seek with your high end handhelds and I admit I was tempted by the claims of $199-299 beautiful screened, thin, Pocket PC's but for now I see Palm still holds the slight lead because of the still amazing OS... but for how long.
I know maybe I am expecting miracles but Palm did just back in 1996 and I have high hopes a REAL OS 6 in the future can show us the light yet again.
Bravo Mike, your a standup guy!
owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: Answers to questions
This kinda gives me a relaxing comfort knowing that if I buy an OS 5, the general rule is that I'll be able to put OS 6 on it.
------------------------
Mario Masitti
O/T Mod
I Love Tennis :)
Where the He** is Handspring?
I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
U don't want windows on handleds too. The IT market must be much more colorful.
Anybody know why Palm TT has not so beatifull icons from previous PalmOS 5 screenshots?
http://www1.mconline.ru/post/14918/palmos5.jpg
Thank you.
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
- Michael Dell
October 2002
http://money.cnn.com/2002/10/28/news/companies/dell.reut/
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
Looks like Dell is trying to ridiculize Palm Os with that statement:
1) OS 5 does not suppor StronARM wich is an obsolete ARM 5 processor. OS 5 supports all current ARM 7 processors under the palmOS ready program and the only Intel processor supported is the new Xscale.
2) Palm OS was not simply "ported" it was rewritten for the ARM processors (and again not for the obsolete StrongARM).
Looks like Dell has something against Palm OS.
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
ARM Architectures explained: http://www.arm.com/armtech/ARM_Arch?OpenDocument
Intel ARM chips:
http://developer.intel.com/design/pca/applicationsprocessors/
--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
Palm 505 vs. TT
But will TT last for 7 days??? I dont know. I hope I will not miss my Palm 505 so much becouse I am buying TT this week I hope. what do u guys think?
RE: Palm 505 vs. TT
I loved my Cranberry but my m515 makes me lust for only the shell. The m515 runs circles for my needs over my 505.
If the TT performs like my experience, and I think from my limited play time at a local retail outlet was a great demo, you're in for a pleasent surprise.
Looking for a Tungsten-phone product to merge my world,
David
Owned a III, IIIe, IIIxe, m505, m130, m515
Latest Comments
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Shennanigans
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