Comments on: Palm OS Market Share Rises in Second Half of '02
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RE: Other side of the coin
The truth hurts I guess...
RE: Other side of the coin
"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown
RE: Way to go Palm OS!!!
http://www.palmsource.com/press/2003/012703.html
Related article:
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-982286.html?tag=fd_top
Market share leader Palm saw shipments decline 12.2 percent in 2002 to about 4.4 million units from about 5.1 million units in 2001, according to Dataquest. Hewlett-Packard, which holds the No. 2 market share spot and is the market share leader for devices using Microsoft's OS, saw worldwide shipments drop by 27.2 percent to 1.6 million units from 2.2 million units.
The Palm operating system still dominates the handheld market with 55.2 percent or 6.7 million units shipped using the Palm OS. About 25.7 percent of handhelds shipped, or 3.1 million units, used Microsoft's Windows CE OS.
Kort said that the Zire made up about a third of Palm's shipments in the fourth quarter and helped the company maintain its unit market share, but brought down Palm's average selling price for devices.
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Basically, HP tank last year because of the merger, Zire rule, Dell will chew up Q1.
RE: Way to go Palm OS!!!
> Dell will chew up Q1 ...
Only if they can actually sell AND ship product. Wasn't there a CNET article about Dell quoting some very delayed shipment dates?
RE: Way to go Palm OS!!!
HP Q3-Q4 performance, as oppose to year to year performance cited in C|NET, they seems to be recovering. 292,850 to 438,069.
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/030127d.html
RE: Way to go Palm OS!!!
"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: Way to go Palm OS!!!
xolstis
Market share?
"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
Just more proof...
"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown
RE: Just more proof...
"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: Just more proof...
What again?!! How many times are they gonna fail already?! Heard that before...
RE: Just more proof...
"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown
RE: Just more proof...
I would like to pretend that those 1-1.8 million Axims on order for this week are only displacing Ipaq sales, but I have to think that a fair percentage of people are looking at the Palm M130 and comparing it to the low end Axim and they just can't see spending the same price to get so much less hardware in the Palm.
And yet, to launch a model competitive with the Axim for a price lower than the Sony SJ22, Palm would have to bet every penny of their $200,000,000 in cash reserves. Quite a risky bet, but that is what Dell promised for those 1 million units without knowing that they could sell them. But then, $200 million is a drop in the bucket of Dell's reserves.
RE: Just more proof...
RE: Just more proof...
I have yet to see anyone wandering the halls where I work with an Axim. I would see it too. They would either have it strapped to their belt, or be tugging it along behind them in a little red wagon with a Honda generator to squeeze two hours of run time out of it.
Please get off the Axim/PPC is gonna kill Palm garbage unless you have some kind of market data that backs it up. What I SEE is that Palms have 55% share and PPCs have 25%. That's a long row to hoe. Last time I checked, Pocket PC software is not even in the same ball park as far as the number of apps available on Handango.
I think it's a little premature to start the victory dance. The fat lady is not even in the stadium. I think she is at home playing Billiards on her Tungsten T.
RE: Just more proof...
"does anybody have any freakin data that shows that dell is outselling anybody in handhelds???? "
Well here is some data published on Cnet form Dataquest. According to the article in 2002 the total number of shipments of pda's by OEM were:
1) Palm: 4.4 million (down 12.2%)
2) HP: 1.6 million (dwon 27.2%)
3) Sony
4) Handspring
5) Toshiba
Exact numbers weren't published for other three. As for Dell, they shipped only 51,000 units. But that is expected to rise.
RE: Just more proof...
Only? 51k is very successful performance considering that was just the debut month of sales for Axim. And Dell still hasn't kept up with demand, which implies well over 51k+ sales. If Dell were able to fill orders, it would be quite interesting to see what the actual number would be.
"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: Just more proof...
Axim:1440mAh (~6hrs continuous, 14hrs .mp3 continuous)
T|T:900mAh (~4hrs continuous, unknown .mp3 continuous)
>>>Please get off the Axim/PPC is gonna kill Palm garbage unless you have some kind of market data that backs it up. What I SEE is that Palms have 55% share and PPCs have 25%.
The 55% number is based on global annual shipping data. '01
similar number.
1999 POS (~90%)
2000 POS (~80%)
2001 POS (57%)
2002 POS (55%)
>>> Last time I checked, Pocket PC software is not even in the same ball park as far as the number of apps available on Handango.
What the site counters say:
# of active titles at palmgear.com :: 16,371
# of active titles at pocketgear.com :: 13,712
Note: both are inflated and contain numerous junks
RE: Just more proof...
Here are the numbers one more time:
Palm OS handhelds shipped 6.7 million units and have 55% market share. Windows CE shipped 3.1 million units with 25% market share. That is less than half as many! The decline... according to the article being cited repeatedly is :
"The chief cause of this decline was the slumping economy, which slowed sales of the devices into big businesses, according to Dataquest analyst Todd Kort."
And, Trilobyte, I'm well aware of the battery size and capabilities of most if not all Pocket PCs. I've owned: Casio E105, HP Jornada 540, iPAQ 3670, iPAQ 3955, and an iPAQ 1910. I wouldn't trade a single one of these for my Tungsten. My previous statement was a humorous use of hyperbole. Um, you see, I didn't really expect to see anyone pulling a red wagon with a generator in it to power their Axim handheld. ???
Now, lets look at the rather ambitious projections for Axim sales... 51K shipments so far (I don't doubt this). As many as 150K this quarter (yeah right). So 150K X 4 quarters is 600,000 units this year. Let's throw in a generous Christmas '03 season... which I also doubt... and call it 700,000 units. We should also notice that HP's market share has dropped 27% according to the same article. This might possibly maybe could be suggest that Dell is nabbing their customers again... this time with PDAs. So how does 700K units in 2003 which is simultaneously eroding HP's market share compare with 6.7 million units shipped last year by Palm OS PDAs when the Tungsten didn't even hit the street until the last quarter in full swing? Let's not forget that Sony is expected to continue to pump out very nice S series and other PDAs in the $300 range.
I'm not hearing the death nell of Palm around any corners. Perhaps your ears are just better than mine... I doubt that one too.
RE: Just more proof...
RE: Just more proof...
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The 51K number is based on the last 2-3 weeks of December when Dell begun selling Axim. Your numerical assumption above are made with everything else hold constant, No new models, no price change, no major marketing effort, etc. just like the 3 weeks of December. Dell has been openly talked about introducing 2 new models on top of the X5, and that might explain their overall target. I Also doubt they can make over 1 million unit next year if they only have X5 on their hand.
And HPQ also has been rumored ready to refreshed their iPAQ line, and I seriously doubt big event like HP/Compaq merger resulting in major product reorganisation will happen again in 2003. Of course nobody know what stupid think might happen. Iraq might nuke HPQ headquarter for all we know. so...
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>>>... shipped last year by Palm OS PDAs when the Tungsten didn't even hit the street until the last quarter in full swing? Let's not forget that Sony is expected to continue to pump out very nice S series and other PDAs in the $300 range.
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T|T's sale is taking a hit after the introduction of h1910 and X5. This has been much discused. The S series is certainly an update, but I don't think it can compete against h1910 or the upcoming h1915/2200 in term of price and feature. The dragonball model won't hold at $300 market anymore.
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>>>I'm not hearing the death nell of Palm around any corners. Perhaps your ears are just better than mine... I doubt that one too.
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Not a death knell, but disappearing into the night maybe? Most statistical projection still put Palm as a sizeable PDA player at least another 3 years, so ...
RE: Just more proof...
Introduced Nov 17th at Comdex, 2002 sales 51K.
For the sake of argument, let's say they do 51K/month.
Sooo... that's 51K x 12 or 612,000 units/year. And that's given agressive advertising and selling below cost.
Yeah, they're gonna eat Palm too I guess...
RE: Just more proof...
Never bet against Michael Dell.
RE: Just more proof...
BTW. For Gekko,
I took the 1910 back because it was slow and the directional pad was wretched. Very stiff and hard to press. Other than that, it's a pretty cool machine. I use TomeRaider with a huge dictionary file... about 12MB. It was so slow that it was unusable on the 1910. The same file used on a 3955 is very speedy... also on my old 3670 with the StrongARM processor. THe 200Mhz XScale just didn't have to juice for it, though. The file works great on my new Tungsten.
The screen is beautiful, but the digitizer overlay seems kind of cheap and spongy compared to a 39XX series. You might love it. I wouldn't trade my TT for it, though.
Hope that helps you, Gekko.
RE: Just more proof...
RE: Just more proof...
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For such big file usually people use overclock tray during launch. h1910 is slow handling multi megabyte file like that at 200mHz. There are 3 OC utility out by now and one of them is free. Otherwise wait for the new h2200 or anything with that new PXA255.
PS. how do you feed 12MB dictionary into a TT?
RE: Just more proof...
The dictionary file is on the SD card. Works just as well as it did on the 3955. Very speedy lookups. No sluggishness when "Paging" to the next definition. Is that what you were asking???
I installed it via the HotSync conduit. I have CardExport now. That would've been a lot faster. Either way works.
The most astonishing fact is...
RE: The most astonishing fact is...
---
russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
RE: The most astonishing fact is...
EMEA PDAs & Smartphones:
#1 Symbian (42%)
#2 PalmOS (24%)
#3 HP (9%)
EMEA Smartphone:
#1 Symbian (84%)
#2 Orange SPV (5%)
#3 Others... including Treos we assume...
From: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/newsdisplay2.php?id=7144
RE: The most astonishing fact is...
"Smartphone market in the US - where Symbian has only released, what, one device? It's a diferent story in the EU."
True... It will be interesting to see how the 3650 fares in the states.
Also, I think we have to define what a smartphone is? Many people consider the t68i a smartphone? I think there's going to be a large spectrum of devices considered smartphones from phone-centric to data-centric devices. Perhpas there will me room enough for all the players to exist in thsi space...
RE: The most astonishing fact is...
I'm not sure how much volume smart phones are in the US, but I can tell you the world is a much bigger place. Somebody told me Nokia alone sells more than 100 million phones a year. Now, just think if in a couple years time all those phones become smart phones ...
RE: The most astonishing fact is...
RE: The most astonishing fact is...
In fact, speaking personally, over the years I have shifted my computer usage from PC to laptops, then to PDA (I don't carry laptop anymore). However, lately I found myself using my T68i more and more, and my Palm less and less. Even though my initial rationale for getting the T68i was to support my Palm via the Bluetooth now it appears the usage pattern has switched somewhat ...
RE: The most astonishing fact is...
Since my Handspring's digitzer went, I have been using my T68 for all my PIM functions -- for which it is actually very good (if you have Bluetooth on a laptop to sync data). In that respect, it is quite smart. On the other hand, you can't download new software to it like you can with most phones coming to market now. Most of these (from Nokia, Siemens, Sagem, etc.) don't look like smartphones; but effectively are.
FBN
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Ceci n'est pas une signature.
RE: The most astonishing fact is...
Symbian on the other hand is a very different story. With NOKIA and SONY-ERICSSON behind Symbian, this doesn't look too good for palmOS smartphones. For one it probably means we will never see a smartphone-clie series as sony will probably just leave the phones to its sony-ericsson venture. That leaves us with handspring, samsung and kyocera, all of which aren;t exactly heavyweights in the mobile phone scene.
xolstis
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Other side of the coin
Every company has some sort of line like this. Every company can spin numbers to make them look good.
Go Palm!
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Fammy