Comments on: New m500 series USB Sync Problem Solution

A friend of mine is on his third replacement unit from Palm. They have treated him like dirt throughout the process. They have refused to give him any option to upgrade (or downgrade) to a non-500-series unit. A fairly strong civil case could probably be built for fraud that would could lead to a sizeable settlement provided enough victims joined. I'm no fan of tort, but this is a crock, and Palm has just been horrid to its customers.

I certainly won't be buying any more of their products.

Way to go Palm!

Michael T. Ashby
Director
InterPUG
http://www.interpug.com

I would prefer continuing to use the USB connection and then be eligable for the final remedy, which, I asume, would involve some kind of shielding to prevent build up of charge, or another more convenient way of causing the charge to dissipate/

Of course I tried all the usual solutions - uninstalling and reinstalling the Palm Desktop software, hard reset, changing USB ports, installing Palm Desktop on my brother's computer and attempting HotSync, switching to my old cradle (I received the improved "H" model last year from Palm), none of which worked.

Today I finally searched online for more help and discovered the old articles and discussions on the battery drain and disconnect fixes. My Palm is draining even as I type this, but I have a few lingering and disturbing (to me) questions:

1. Does a complete drain shorten the life of the battery? I have done some reading about the Li-Ion batteries and I think the answer is YES.

2. Has Palm fixed this problem on new m505's and m515's (or even the Tungsten & Zire)? Somebody "from Palm" remarked that it had been fixed after "October" (2001, I'm guessing).

3. This new backup card solution only applies to warranteed users, correct? I bought my m505 in July 2001, so am I hanging out to dry?

4. An "Electrical Engineer" mentioned that you have to completely drain the battery and everything else (e.g. CPU and circuit board), otherwise you will short circuit the Palm - with a little power it is still in discharge mode and you try to charge it = Palm meltdown? Is this true?

5. Is the USB chip being zapped or not? If it is then the damage would be permanent, right? How does draining the unit fix this?

6. If powering the unit down works, isn't there a software/hack way to "clear" whatever setings are messed up on the Palm? Then we wouldn't have to wait, open our Palms, receive backup cards from Palm, or damage our batteries.

Thanks everybody for all your effort - despite all this trouble I still love my Palm and recommend the Palm OS and hardware to friends and relatives.

I only wish that Palm had been less circumspect in their communications with end users and the press. If you play nice, nobody will say "lawsuit"
;-)

Palm m505 User

The TT, or m550, is technically part of the m500 line. Since Palm has known about SUDS since the m505, you'd think if they were able to completely fix this problem then the m515 would be SUDS free... This is not the case.

Anyone care to speculate??

Still though, it's a pretty good idea for a solution to the problem. It even took them too long to rebrand someone else's idea.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

Additionally, if Palm won't give the cards to these users (and you're one of those users), there is another way without adding software or anything. Do a hard reset, goto memo pad. Make sure the backlight is on. in a new memo do shortcut period 3, then shortcut period 1. This method normally only takes 5 hours rather than a full 8

-Pepper

I love my Palm . . . do you?

Sounds good to me!

Now why on earth would you want to sue a company who is trying to work with you long after your product warranty has expired?

Thanks & Keep Palming :-D

Palm m505 User

The response I received was:

"Thank you very much for your inquiry.

I understand that you are unable to perform a HotSync(R) operation with your Palm(TM) m505 handheld using the USB HotSync(R) cradle. I realize the inconvenience caused to you.

Currently, there is no card available for resolving the USB HotSync(R) issue. We are unaware whether any such card will be released or not in the near future. I cannot comment on our company's decision. I suggest that you keep visiting our Palm site for the latest updates at the following URL: http://www.palm.com/"

The email then proceeded to instruct me to try removing all the palm desktop software from my computer, as well as removing all palm usb info from the registry, and then reinstalling the software, just to see if it works.

I know that it's not the software, and so does Palm. It's the USB static problem. It's not the cradle. It's not the software. It's the USB chip.

Freakin' jerks. They know that their product has a well-documented flaw. They should own up to it and make it right, instead of making everyone jump through hoops so that they can exchange their units for refurbs or worse.

Does anybody know for sure what Palm's plans regarding m500 series battery replacement are? I think the tone of the manual indicates that they consider the devices disposable after the power supply retires. Yes, I know that some 3rd-party companies are willing to replace batteries, but I am wondering if there is an official channel for battery changes.

Basically, I planned on keeping my m505 for more than 10 years (pause for readers' laughter) barring accidental destruction, but with the HotSync issue and impending battery death, my eye is starting to wander towards those sexy new OS5 devices with their extra speed, memory, and high resolutions...

Palm m505 User

In my phone conversation with Tech Support today, I learned a few revealing things about the attitude of Palm, the actual problem and how it is supposed to be fixed.

1. The main issue is electrostatic discharge. we know that.

2. The main reason is not the weather, but the metal case the device is housed in. The case is a perfect static generator, thus the problem. This doesn't happen to plastic case devices.

3. Palm Tech will run through the usual questioins to see if it is something else. Then will address the static issue with three options.

Option A:
Send your device to be repaired. Down time of two weeks or more.

Option B:
Advance Exchange program is now $39.95 with a 3-5 day wait for the replacement unit. (NOTE: This is extened further out due to the high demand for replacements)

Option C:
SD card for backup and drain down of the battery. The problem here is, there are no cards available until the end of February. They were all dispensed within 3 weeks of becoming available.

4. What is Palm doing to prevent this on future models? New cases with materials added to reduce the static buildup. New cradles that do the same.

4. Other issues for the m500 series are as follows. The devices are being shipped air freight instead of ground. While in the air the device freezes and stretches the wiring inside, thus pulling the connections loose or opening areas for a short circuit. Palm is changing the method of shipping because of this.

Bottom line folks, this has turned into a big pain in the butt for many of us. If you are like me and have a client base whom you have setup with m500 series devices, you are most likely at the end of your rope. True, it is Palm's problem. But, it reflects on those of us who have clients contacting them with problems. I am of the mind to find another Palm OS device like Sony or Handspring to offer my clients. There are far less issues with them.

I would like to continue to be a Palm specific device supporter, but having had to change out mulitiple units over the past few months, it is becoming difficult. Honestly, I find the Tech Support group less than adequate in the way things are handled. Also, the device itself lacks severly in one of the most crucial areas of operation. May I suggest that all of us drop an e-mail to every Corporate board member at Palm and PalmSource to let them know how we feel. Please keep in mind that your e-mail not be laced with profanity, idle threats or terrorist mentallity, but talk to them in a business manner. Well thought out expressions can get more attention than the later.

Today I will personally be e-mailing them and also making some phone calls to express my disappointment and concern over this. I just want a reliable device, not one that leaves me stranded. If Hot Syncing wasn't such a great tool, I would fall back to my pocket note pad and through this device in the drawer. But here we are on the cutting edge of technology and the smallest things cripple us.

I hope that this commentary will solicit good reactions.

Sincerely,

Kevin Bingham

Addicted to Palm

I'm even thinking of putting a repeating todo in my m515 to remind me to do it every week, because it is going to need it. I'm also blocking out an hour to make sure things are resetup correctly. (FontHack settings always have to be redone after using the card.)

The bottom line: The fix doesn't really solve the problem.

Rather then rant about how bad it is, I would love to see if anyone else can beat my HS_Reset Card count.

First, look at this USB ESD issue. The users figured it out, found a fix, and Palm finally started shipping SD Cards with the fix installed. Surely they could have done this earlier, and saved their own stock price from such a fall with the high cost of shipping one refurbished unit after another out to customers, some of whom repeated this process four to five times.

Second, their customer service is horrible. My device stopped HotSyncing a few weeks ago, and I contact Palm. I was told that I could do one of two things: (1) Ship my device back and they would repair it, and send it to me. I would have to pay the shipping to them, however. (2) The second option was to have them send me a refurbished unit. Now, my major problem with this method is that a customer who cares for their device, say by purchasing the Palm-brand aluminum case, does not want a device that someone else has used, and possibly mistreated. I think a new device should be shipped. Plain and simple. It would be cheaper than all these broken units with the same ESD problems floating around and being recycled at the cost of shipping to Palm. But, I went with a replacement option. Upon receiving it, I sent it back the next day. It was not in the same condition that my device was in, and I was not willing to trade down in quality simply because Palm could not get it right in their manufacturing. (Why are the other Palm OS device manufacturers not have these sorts of problems?)

I contacted Palm again. Not knowing about this SD Card that Palm was sending out as a fix, I asked for a new unit. I was told by Palm support, whose call center is located in Canada, that they had no authority to do this. So I asked for a number to the Palm corporate office. They gave me 408-503-7000 and I called it. The operator at this number gave me another number for Executive Escalation (847-493-7256). These guys handle all the angry customers who want to complain about Palm support. So I felt obligated to tell Mike how I felt. I explained that Palm support is not very helpful and they don't know in detail what is going on with this problem. I also explained to him that Executive Excalation should be more helpful, and a wait time of 15-20 minutes, on a toll call, for someone to answer the phone, is not customer service.

He offered me a serial cradle. I tured it down, stating that the device should work as it was intended, else they could upgrade me to a newer model that did, or send me a brand new version of my model. He stated that this was "not going to happen", and offered me the SD Card. I asked him why no one, in two days of being on the phone for hours, all toll calls, while I am still in warranty, had told me this prior to him. He stated, and stopped several time to choose his words very carefully ("...how can I say this...um..."), that he would have to speak to the manager of the individuals who I had already spoken to and have them coach the customer service agents on how to deal with this problem.

I was told that I would have the SD Card today, overnight. I have not received it and Airborne Express has already made deliveries for the day.

People have been talking about a class action lawsuit. Normally, I would agree with those against it, but in this case, companies need to understand that a customer...a loyal customer...cannot be treated in such a way.

I am very dissapointed with a company that I would have once defended (and did) with every breath. The fact is, Palm is not what it was. It is not the innovator that it was. It plays catch-up now to all its rivals, and I am thinking that it is time that the user community moved over to one of them (just pick one) to show Palm that issues like this should be handled properly and with respect to the customer.

I encourage everyone who reads this to contact the 847 number above and leave a message regarding how you feel. Perhaps having to listen to 500 users complain, one after another, in voicemail, will give the executives something concrete they can hear.

Good luck to all who have this problem, and remember that standing your ground, asking for a supervisor, a manager, or someone higher does work. If I had given up, they would have had me paying for shipping for a problem that they caused with their faulty manufacturing.

Dennis Metzcher
The Palm Review
http://palmreview.listbot.com

I just posted this on the Palm NG and was going send the folks here something, but it looks like they are on it.

Well, got my repair SD card two days ago. There are actually two programs on it, a Backup and Restore program. It's a 15 MB card and when I got it, all my
data was already off the 505, as I mentioned earlier. I tried everything to get it to HotSync, nothing worked. So when I called them and they said they
would send out the "Palm HotSync Reset Card" (that's what the name on the card reads), I was psyched. It took all night to drain the battery, that's what the
program does. Then I charged it for about 3 hours and pressed HotSync and poof, it HotSync'd with my desktop and everything was back the way it was before I had the problem.

After I got everything back on there, I ran the Back program and now all my data and programs that are on my palm are backed up on the SD Card. When I checked the card info, I have 10.9 MB free on the card, I guess I can use it for other programs...

If you are having problems HotSync'n, call customer service and get them to send the card... It's also nice to have for backing up your data. I wonder why
they aren't posting the program some where online for folks to download themselves? Maybe they are, anyone know...

Tom

PS. Last year I also exchanged my cradles, I have two, for the new "E" and still had the problem, looks like they finally found a fix... Good Luck!

So, I removed the back of the M515, noticed the battery wire was passing over one of the ICs (the one directly above and left of the battery). I re-routed the battery wire so that it hugged the top of the battery , down the side battery, and into the connector and replaced the back.

I have zapped it several times since (static is really a problem in my office) but, SUDS has NOT reappeared. As far as I am concerned, re-routing the battery wire away from the circuitry stopped the problem from occurring.