Comments on: Palm Slashes Prices, TT now $399

That's a rhetorical question, right?

We could have waited, but we had to have a TT RIGHT THEN. Place a nice game of MegaSoft Billiards and be at peace with your early purchase.

Depends on when and where you bought it. Many places have "Price Match" guarantees and most such "Price Match" guarantees include a "within 30-days" clause. So if you did purchase it from a place with a Price Match guarantee within 30-days ago, you should be able to get such a refund.

lol

You can test your own digitizer yourself by doing the following.

1. Create a new note in notepad
2. start to draw a line starting above the delete button. Bring your stylus up to the menu word "note" (do not take the stylus off the screen until you have finished step 5)
3. You should now have a line from above delete to where the draw area ends..
4. Now continue dragging the stylus over to the categories indicator (default is "Unfiled")
5. Now continue dragging the stylus back to where you started.
6. If your unit is good you will now have a three sided triangle. If you have a bad unit you will only have a line from above the delete button to the "note" menu option. And the second line down will not exist.

The problem is along the top the of the screen the digitizer on some units just doesn't work correctly! Contact palm and tell them the same thing I told you here. They will test it on there Palm Emulator on there computer and will see it needs to be a triangle. And not just one line.

Hope this helps some people out! I was thinking of putting images on my web page so other people can see the problem and know how to test the unit. Also you can get a program called "Ak Stylus" and it will allow you to test it. Just use the program and drag your stylus along the top of the screen and you will see that it will drop out at times and stop working if you have a bad digitizer on your Tungsten.

Good luck,
Bobby

Lemon

You misspelt: Palm - realizing thet they've once again released a single device that is outselling other companies' entire PDA lineups

Frankly, overall, the guy is not off mark, if you ask me.

The price being too high is probably a matter of opinion, but let's be honest here... there are LAPTOPS that can be had for less than twice what a Tungsten started out at.

As far as problems, while I'm not sure what the poster was referring to regarding the "Toggle," the TT has certainly been plagued with quite a few (hopefully youth) problems:

The digitizer - I've seen it with my own eyes and tried it with my own hands, it was so annoying I wouldn't have paid $50 for that particular handheld (I don't mean a TT in general, I mean one with a digitizer problem)

The Slider - again, seen it with my own eyes, the "self-retracting TT" ... that feature was not well thought out if you ask me... they should have implemented the little spring-loaded balls with grooves so that the handheld would stay securely OPEN or CLOSED based on the user's desires, not based on just how lucky you were when you picked your TT box.

Dust - Once again, seen it with my own eyes. any TT user can see it for themselves by making the screen black and keeping the backlight on. Some are luckier than others. Hopefully Palm either HAS or WILL take measures to ensure that no dust that isn't already in there can get in there. So far some reports have said otherwise.

Sound Issue - Sure, this *SHOULD* be fixed by the patch, but my coworker downloaded the patch and installed it and now MP3s sound better (though nothing like a coworker's Sony) but his alarms sound about the same loudness as my Vx's alarms do when my Vx is 3-4 times farther.

As far as "what will Palm do" ... unfortunatelly the poster (IMHO) may be right.

Palm released the Half-A$$ fix M515 after releasing the 505... meanwhile Sony'd been pushing HiRes for some time... not to mention that the M515 only solved one of the 505's shortcomings (screen brightness) while not solving SUDS, and giving up one EXCELLENT FEATURE of the 505 (lit graffiti area).

So, as a Palm fan myself, I'm hoping they get back on track (if you asked me the quality went down when they spun off 3Com... I haven't heard of endemic problems with the Vx, IIIc, IIIx, III, Pro etc... as soon as Palm spun off we got all sorts of things:

Suds, 12bit screens, dim screens, dust...

Here's hoping someone gives a nice tug to Palm's wheel and steers the ship back on course.

If there's one thing I miss from Palm's Vx/m5xx design, it's the slide-in flip leather cover. So far, I have yet to find a cover that I'm comfortable with on my Tungsten. Even though I use the supplied clear plastic cover, it just doesn't feel natural to use when clipped onto the back. So, I end up just taking it off on use.

I also blindly invested in a Scuba Sleeve from Palm. My advice for those contemplating purchasing this crap cover: Don't bother.

: Is anyone else as manic about size as I am?

/me raises hand. :)

Jim

If you are that stuck on the size of the V, why not go for the M515? Leather flip cover, more AVAILABLE memory than any other Palm, and more than twice the speed of the V. Not to mention color, faster hotsyncs, better buttons, and expansion. The TT2 is not going to be any smaller.

For the ultimate size reduction, get a Fossil and remove the band :)

You forgot lack of SDIO and incompatiblility with all other iPAQ expansion. And don't forget the fact that its s-l-o-w : 200mhz XScale is slower then 200mhz strongARM and significantly slower (if i understand correctly) than TI OMAP (especially one running Palm OS 5). I read recently: TT with OMAP(w/integrated DSP) = 575 MIPS vs. 400mhz XScale = 480 MIPS.

What advantage does the 1910 have over the TT (aside form the price - which as this whole article points out - is becoming less of an issue). The only place where the 1910 wins is size (longer but thinner and less width) and virtual graffiti. I'll take the faster, better OS (couldn't resist...), nicer looking, higher-res, better battery life TT anyday.

I've had my m500 for the last year and a half and will not give it up until the next TT has a leather flip cover. Thanks for the scoop on the scuba cover, I've been trying to find out what it looks like at any other angle besides the single image that every website posts.
Why not upgrade to m515? Because what use is the color if you can't do anything with it? Okay so its a little, I repeat, a little more colorful, but that's all!

You may want to double check the test results, as they were done with the screen at 75%, not 100%, and the volume was on low at 25%. Also, are you claiming that the T|T cannot run for 2 hours and 20 minutes, or that the T|T cannot run a video file? Even though my device is not in the same league as the iPaq or the T|T, it ran the same test for over 5 and a half hours. I don't recall the T|T being THAT much worse than the M515.

Also interesting in the 1910 test is that it could not make it 4 hours, even with the screen turned OFF. Can anyone comment on comparative T|T tests?

Wow, is this not the most thoughtless comment I have ever read. Do you know what personal preference is? Everyone has different needs. Just because a T|T works for Julie and Judie doesn't mean it will work for Joe Guy over there.

------------------------
Mario Masitti
O/T Mod
I Love Tennis :)

You may want to double check the test results, as they were done with the screen at 75%, not 100%, and the volume was on low at 25%. Also, are you claiming that the T|T cannot run for 2 hours and 20 minutes, or that the T|T cannot run a video file? Even though my device is not in the same league as the iPaq or the T|T, it ran the same test for over 5 and a half hours. I don't recall the T|T being THAT much worse than the M515.
---------

No T|T cannot run 2:20 matching the gadgeteer condition. It is 75% brightness of transreflectivescreen, and continuous .mp3 with 25% built in speaker. One of the loudest in the market. The second set of test by Gadgeteer was conducted before the existence of OC utilities, something now commonly used to enhance h1910 mp3 mp3 battery endurance.

T|T is also incapable to run standard .wmf/.mpeg test. Something that has been tested in h1910 for a little more than 2 hrs. The only formal test ever published in an internet review nearing the first version of gadgeteer version does not back up what you say.
http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2495,2.html#OS

M515 is a different platform all together, and has sub par features offering compared to ARM class PDAs.

More seriously, my treo is the 4th palm pda I've bought, and the first that I carry constantly. The smaller size, weight, KB, and long battery life make a HUGE difference.

Please educate me. What is SDIO and why is it important?

I don't think so. Have you used Documents to go (free with palms).

Pocket Office does not syncs tables, graphs and pictures just look at the Brighthand article. And where is the PowerPint app in pocket office?

The programs you mention on the PPC like textmaker are expensive third party app.

Ahh - i wasn't talking about Mhz at all - in fact you completely missed my point. I am saying that although the PPCs (both StrongARm and Xscale) feature a HIGHER Mhz rating - the MIPS (millions of instructions per second) rating (a better - though not perfect - indication of performance than Mhz) is significantly higher on the Tungsten T/ OMAP. I suggest you re-read my post and that you think before you post a reply that proves the opposite of the point you are trying to make.

Sure do... that's why I posted it in the midst of this 'your device sucks because it's different from mine' thread. It was supposed to be light-hearted sarcasm. For some, PPC OS suits their preference. For others, it's Palm OS. I know that as well as anyone.

As I recall, most video tests are done using the Aliens video which is in AVI format, not MPEG. Most video encoders captire in AVI format (VideoWave and MovieStar for example), and then the output can be in in AVI, MPEG1, MPEG2, MPEG3, MPEG4, Real Video, VideoCD, etc.

Your claim is that there is only one codec that's valid for testing, correct?

In regards to mpeg being a better codec than Cinepak Mobile, in what regards? Quality? Compression algorithms? Forgive the many questions, but I'm trying to get an accurate perspective on your opinion.

As far as getting around the wasted space of a 640x480 mpeg on a 2 inch screen, do you really think that it is easier to dig around on the net for someone else's re-sized videos, rather than drag and drop anything you want?

The kind of stuff I want on my handheld is usually not the 15-30 second clips. I'm more interested in a few favorite scenes from a movie, or a CA video, or a half hour show, or a full length version of that movie that I never have the time to sit down and watch.

That leaves a problem for me, as I usually can't find exactly what I'm looking for on the net, and usually make it myself. An example is a 54 minute childrens video. Yea, junk to you and me, but you should see them plastered to that little screen! Being able to do so for 5 hours is a plus. Do the kids even care what format it's in?

So I'm back to the decision of what work best for me: being able to play someone else's selections, or make what I really want to see? I could re-size and maintain the mpeg codec, but I know first hand that this is no easier than converting to Cinepak Mobile, and the results are no better.

In conclusion, I have to state that there is no quality or compression advantage to keeping files in the mpeg format that has been demonstrated. There is no speed advantage to keeping the mpeg format, as it is quicker to convert and sync other formats than it is to simply sync a native mpeg... unless you get one that was already converted. No one has done direct comparitive testing between the two platforms, so we only have a loose collection of random results on which to base our opinions. The good thing is that we can each have our opinions and have fun with our PDAs.

The goal of any video player is image quality, good sound sync, and respectable frame rate. If that's what you have, then I'm happy for you. I have that too, even if the sound sucks on my current device :)

PS: In MiniCalc, I was referring to the charting. I prefer it's charting options, but that does not necessarily mean it's the best in other functions.

No my claim is, .mpeg is the most common and widely accepted file format for compressing file specially for portable handheld. It has far superior compression algorithm for the picture quality and memory.

an ideal codec would be: near movie screen qualtiy, at cost of no CPU load and reduce the file size to almost nothing all with easily accessible tools for user. .mpeg certainly can beat some of this criteria than cinepak. (does anybody actually use this codec beside a few Palm user?)

Minicalc: I post CHART on the link. A type of chart that minicalc cannot do "radar" chart.

Third down
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=456001

Except we are not talking about PDA format here, but file format. (ie. a PDA capability to handle widest available formats) And file format in Palm are more balkanized than the former Yugoslavia. There isn't even a universal office suit file format in the entire platform, let alone with the rest of computing world (desktop)

"MPEG:
30fps, 160x120 size, 712kbps data rate, mono audio @ 8Khz sampling, file size = 96,177kb
Cinepak Mobile:
30fps, 160x120 size, 720kbps data rate, mono audio @ 8Khz sampling, file size = 10,839kb"

1.Cinepak Codec license is expensive.
2.Tool is not widely available in desktop
3.Picture quality at same low rate is not as good, specially fast moving scene. (notice how you test at 712kbps, instead of asking, how much space can I shrink Spiderman DVD heh... )
4.has far stronger backing by the industry, resulting in hardware .mpeg4 chip for eg.
5.Most NX Clie user will say kinoma doesn't match their built in ,mpeg based player. (maybe illusion, but Kinoma sure doens't play withsound on NX).

"I don't use radar charts, but I'm sure there are lots of peole that do use them. I prefer the MiniCalc charts because I like how they look on the charts I use. It's a preference not a mandate. "

after confronted with limitation of a type of charting feature, all of a sudden now you say, you prefer Minicalc because it taste like chocolate. Well guess what, I prefer pocket excel because it smells like morning dew. (Hint: You started the whole deal with feature comparison/specification, not if I like this or that better)

Instead, I ordered from Staples.com. After $50 coupon, plus tax, the net price tag becomes $361. Not too bad either...

Furthermore, PalmSG had also stated that their 1st smartphone device would run on TI chips, presumably the new OMAP. Thus, the "Veld" may be the name of a new smartphone from PalmSG as well. In fact there was a pic of a design reference leaked to PIC a few months ago.

In any case, the drop in T|T prices indicates to me that perhaps PalmSG is shifting the Tungsten line to the midrange or high-midrange? You can already find the T|T for approx. $350 on many sites. I would imagine the prices will eventually drop even lower to the $300 price point with time. If this happens, the T|T will be a dmaned good bargin for a midrange pda IMHO..

"I carry a phone, pager and a pda. If a products exist that integrates all three units into just one, I would buy it"

Hey TSC, so do I!! The primary reason I still carry a pager is b/c the signal strength and coverage is still stronger than my mobile, especially inside large steel/concrete bulidings as often the case in hospitals etc (i.e. doctors are one of the last major markets for pagers). Also you don't want to give your cell number to everyone either! What I would ideally want is a convergence device that could have two numbers assigned to it: one for the mobile and one for the pager. Alas, this is not possible. SMS, email functionality like in the Treo 300 is great, but I need simple numeric paging as well...

Also while its very true that it wud be a simple and relatively cheap thing to add in a piece of hardware to give it a mic and speaker I personally dun like hardware add-ins as they alter the overall form factor and possibly the pocketability of the device.

-the harbinger-

-----
Ceci n'est pas une signature.

I bought the Tungsten at the higher price, but I can't be mad at Palm for doing business the way they see fit. They made an offer to me to buy a particular device at a particular cost and I said yes. I won't turn around now and say "You guys screwed me." If anybody screwed me, it was me for making the decision to buy.

Come on, folks, take some responsibility for your own decisions.