Comments on: Sony CLIE SJ33 First Impressions Review

I dunno...

That glossy plastic shell doesn't look like it'll hold up to everyday scuffing too well.

It's too bad Sony didn't go with a textured, pebbled plastic shell. My old Palm IIIxe had such a shell and it was remarkably scratch-resistant. If the case does become scuffed, the texture helps to camoflauge it.

It's also too bad that this thing is so thick and heavy.

Brand new device, no MemSTick Pro and .86 inches thick? My iPAQ *with* a CF sleeve isn't much thicker than that.

point. set. match. abosco.

why the constant PPC comparisons? its so pointless.

"However, it is sad that the Axim can be so cheap."

Why is that "sad"? If the Axim is cheap, then Palm will be forced to lower prices to compete, and that's good.

"$299 is a bit much IMHO for a not-so-small PDA"

not-so-small? by your own post you demonstrate that the sj33 is a full 3/4" inch shorter (16% shorter!) and a third of an inch narrower (10% reduction in width) than the axim. when you hold these things in your hand these fractions of an inch make a *big* difference.

i finally picked up and played with an sj-30 at a sony store last night and was very impressed by the size, style and form factor. i would hardly call it 'not-so-small'...

"I think the idea of using Palm OS5 for a 640x480 tablet is pretty silly, actually. The Palm OS GUI wasn't designed for those kinds of screens. And the limitations on memory make that implausible, too. Maybe with Palm OS6, this will make more sense."

This isn't what was meant by "tablet" OS 5 device. He meant something like an m515 with OS 5 or a T665c with OS 5. The upcoming TG50 is a tablet OS 5 device.

Now, Ed, while you bring up a good point as to the hardware presented, I'll point out that the 66 MHz processor is fast enough for all multimedia needs. For Palm OS, this is the cheapest PDA with an MP3 player. Very impressive. Of course, it's nothing new in the PPC arena since, you know, Microshaft mandates multimedia into their OS, severly limiting choices presented to the consumer, so companies either have to survive on razor thin profit margins to get into the low-end or they'll just have to forget about it.

And this thing IS significantly smaller than the Axim. While this may be thicker, it's shorter, and call me crazy, but I'd take a slightly thicker, yet shorter device over a longer, but thinner device in the same volume any day.

This shouldn't be your target if you're looking to compare PPC's to Palms. Try the TG50. OS 5, 200 MHz (that's right, 200 MHz... we don't have the X-Scale bottleneck that PPC's do), Bluetooth, all the multimedia goodies, keyboard, 320x320, built-in flipcover, and it's at $399 ready to ship April 1st.

Or you could go down to the SJ22. $199 and you get 320x320 16 bit color and all of the features of the SJ30 in a package that is rumored to be like the SJ33.

And Ed, I'm still waiting for your *fair* simplicity editorial. Comparing the 3955 to the m100 isn't exactly the fairest of editorials I've ever seen.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

The Dana already has a tablet width display; the NX/NR series have tablet height.

Yes, and the companies that created those machines had to license Palm OS, hack it up, and add their own APIs. And existing applications don't automatically adapt to the size of those new displays--they have to be hacked up specially or the OS merely scales them up. Contrast that with other window systems, where the same application runs on screens with a wide variety of sizes and resolutions.

The RAM sizes have been limited mainly by battery size and the use of older processor chips. But a PalmOS tablet would have room for a much bigger heavier battery, and an OS 5/6 tablet can use processor chips which can address a lot more memory than 16/32 MB.

Again, you can stick more memory into the machine, but it doesn't look like regular Palm applications will be able to take advantage of it; the extra memory will just end up being there for data storage.

To let applications take advantage of larger screens and large memories, Palm needs to make big changes to the APIs. Let's hope they will do that in Palm OS 6.

"I never fired up the advanced features on the Pocket PC to make comparisons."

Haha, oh that's rich. Here's a few snipets from your article:

"Tap the word "meeting" and the PPC enters "ting" followed by a space, quickly readying you for your next word. All of this is easily and intuitively customizable in the keyboard options, available in Options above the list of keyboards available when you switch from QWERTY to Character Recognizer and in the Input icon in system settings. Graffiti, in contrast, requires you to input all 7 characters and the space manually. Note that the Graffiti emulator on the Pocket PC still takes advantage of Word Completion."

Here's an example that shows you didn't even give a try at Palm OS. There's an application called WORDCOMPLETE and guess what it does? Exactly what you just said. You can customize it to your liking. It's freeware and takes up <125k.

"I tested this on both an NX70 and Treo with the built in thumb boards. To enter contacts with the keyboard on the NX70, you must tap the screen to move between fields. The TAB key is non-functional for moving around fields on the Palm."

You're completely right. Tab doesn't do it on an NX. You have to hit CTRL and TAB. Tab inserts a tab. Simple enough.

"Custom Field 1 in Joe Smith's contact may be his URL and in Sarah Black's contact may be her assistant's name."

Here you are talking about the address book, but neglect to mention that you can change the name of the fields. Gee, where could it be... Menu -> Options -> Rename custom fields. Boy, that was tough.

"Now, let's enter a more complex appointment. Three hours, with an alarm. On the Palm, enter the appointment name on the first hour. Now, select Details then tap on the Time box. You can now modify the start and end times, change it to All Day, set the alarms, etc. So for that three hour appointment, it would be Details|Time|End Time|Pick the End Time, check the Alarm box and press OK. On the Pocket PC, you tap and drag over a three hour range, press New and enter the subject. The three hour time will be pre-filled in for you. Hmmm... not so complex anymore, but instead, consistent. Not two different methods."

Okay this is boring me because there's so many things and I'm not even halfway down the article, but if you want to talk about doing a workaround on the PPC like draging the stylus from one time box to another, also talk about the workaround on the Palm. Just start writing the time of the appointment's start. If it starts at 6:35, write 635 and tap OK since the time dialogue box automatically pops up to make a 1 hour appointment. For an end time, tap that time box and write 935 for a three hour appointment. There's workarounds for boths and it's extremely unfair to compare the more advanced features of one OS to another's basic features.

I've already shown you a while ago about the internet and IM thing Palm OS 5 is capable of, so let's just skip that one. I'd hate having to retype all of that.

"On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is easy (like turning your device on) and 10 is hard (like messing with Connection Manager) many Palm features are in the 1-3 range and max out there. The Pocket PC has some in the 1 range, but more in the 2-4 range. Of course configuring a VPN connection to allow your Terminal Services connection to work via GPRS is closer to a 9, but the power that has is simply not replicable on a Palm."

If you want a VPN client, there's two applications that you can use that do so.

http://www.win-hand.com
http://www.mergic.com

Hey? What do you know, Palm OS can also do some 9-range things. Funny how you failed to mention this, huh?

"The bottom line is today, in December of 2002, there is no Palm device that even comes close to touching the functionality and beautiful rich color screens of the Pocket PCs regardless of what prices they are listed at."

WHAT??? Did you forget about the NX70v released November? Even the NR70v that was released last May??? BS!

Last one: "When you get into more sophisticated operations like emailing documents, creating spreadsheets, playing music, storing data on your storage card, synchronizing files, connecting to your LAN, etc., it is clear which device is easier to use. The Pocket PC has all of that built in. No hacks needed, no additional software necessary. Even small things like having a light sensor integrated into the hardware so you don't have to manually turn the back light on means it is one less thing you have to do. Isn't that simple?"

While you say it's built-in to the OS, you forget to mention that many users don't like Pocket Excel and Pocket Word because of the formatting issues when you edit it. Everything that you said in that list is capable on the NX70v and is in fact built-into the whole package that you buy. Dataviz Mail or Clie Mail, Spreadsheet to Go, Audio Player, saving things to the storage card is built-in, Hotsyncing syncs and backups all data onto the computer, Preferences handles logging into the network over an LAN with the NX wifi card, etc, respectively.

This is what I mean by writing up a more fair article. If you're going to address the Palm as being simple for less daunting tasks but incapable of daunting tasks, you BETTER bring up some evidence to back it up. Next time, compare a 3955 to an NX for simplicity and advanced features and see what the outcome is.

Now since this thread is horribly off topic, I'll end it by saying the SJ33 is at a pretty good price point. Compare the SJ33 to an HP1910. They both have some pretty good features and their drawbacks. The HP is thinner, the Sony has a better screen. HP has more multimedia built into the OS but doesn't have a standard headphone jack for you to plug in your $75 headphones, the Palm OS has standard connectors but a bit less multimedia. I'd say these two devices match up accordingly.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

Yeah. No case.

Someone said "I think the idea of using Palm OS5 for a 640x480 tablet is pretty silly, actually. The Palm OS GUI wasn't designed for those kinds of screens. And the limitations on memory make that implausible, too. Maybe with Palm OS6, this will make more sense."

In response, when I say "tablet," I mean 320*480 screen, NX60 style, only not sliding or swivelizing. That is, VG. I never said that there wouldn't need to be modifacations to the design: the SJ33's flip cover could use a bit of work and the smudgyness, and the screen/ Graffiti area isn't tall enough, I htink, foir a 320*480 screen. Whatever Sony does, Sony does.

Oh, and I agree with those who say that the TG50 is the compitition Sony's putting out for the Axim to compete with, for now.

----------------
Sulla has Spoken

If this thing had been out at this price point in the October/November time frame, I'd probably have gone for it over the T|T. I didn't have a need for all the T|T has to offer, but I definitely wanted a bit more oomph and ram than my old m505 had. A powerful OS4.1 Dragonball unit like this would have been about perfect...and I could have continued to use all of my old legacy apps and utilities like FastCPU to underclock that 66mhz CPU down to a minimal level when the speed's not necessary.

While the SJ33 is still a nice unit for today spec-wise, it's still about $50 too expensive and the feature set and formfactor are not ground-breaking by any means. Hopefully Sony will drop the price of it fairly soon. Still, kudos to Sony to see them listening to user complaints about substandard flip covers, buttons that are useless for gaming and even borrowing a trick from Palm to use a larger reset button hole.

The audioplayer is the same as my T665 (Audioplayer version 2.1.1) So the buttons are low res.

The MP3 player is the same on the SJ33 as the T665C, version 2.2.1. Go into the software and bring down the menu to "About Audio Player" I checked, and it it also skinable. The software CD comes with some skins, although they are pretty crappy. The original skin that was on the clie is much better. Now that I have NX70V, the audio player doesn't have the visual effects. that's to bad, because they were pretty cool, almost hypnotic :)

James

There are new pictures of the TG50 on ClieSource and Brighthand. From the side view, it looks like the TG50 might be only about 0.55 inches thick including its flip cover.

I'm not disillusioned, just stating my opinion. 6.1 ounces isn't heavy, but it's all a matter of what you're comparing it to. I was talking about the possibility of moving to a SJ33 from a unit that is half as thin and 1/3 lighter. Is that going to stop me from buying one? Probably not. I don't know until I try it out. The original poster asked for the thickness and I gave it. I also threw in my opinion. If you don't agree, so be it.

BTW, there are loads of people out there who love their NR/NX/NZ series clies. Size and weight in a PDA are important to me. I would never own an NR/NX/NZ series simply because it's too big for what I want. My opinion. That's all. I hope you and your 6 oz IIIe continue to be happy together.

all of the hig res clie models have an additional feature in the default launcher to show the "small" icon. This lets you display 7 x 5 grid of icons.

The tungsten and other OS5 models now display higher resolution icons, and the os 5 clies stillhave the option to display the small grid. Many of the third party launchers will allow you to display more icons on the screen like the sony models.

Pardon my gaff. I incorrectly assumed that the small icon view was available to Tungsten as well. I'm nowhere near ready to upgrade.

******************************************************
Note to Palm:

Will you people get your cranial matter out of your rectal area? Why didn't you include this? What a boneheaded decision. First no VG, and now no small mode taking advantage of the higher resolution? Give your customers some choice why don't ya?
******************************************************

Rant over - my apologies.

Ick

For the standard launcher views:
Icon: 3x4 = 12 apps
List: 2x11 = 22 apps
Icon (s) = 4x7 = 28 apps
List (s) = 3x18 = 54 apps

And then there's the 320x480 screens on the NR/NX/NZ...

Yeah, it would be cool if the Palm 320x320 units included the (small) option.

- D

i got mine last week. I just read the review from this site and brighthand. One thing that suprised me is that both site claims the flip cover can't be removed.
However, based on the information from the manual, it stated that it can be removed and it's needed when using some accessories.
Don't know why but it's interesting...

I'd bet removing it would be good for using the MS Camera, especially if you wanted it facing the same way as the screen.

--------------------------------------
"Well, if it isn't the leader of the wiener patrol, boning up on his nerd lessons"
http://stirwise.com

no. he said nothing about any d-pad or up down buttons. he said he like the recessed buttons. ie they don't stick out of the surface of the device like most do which leads to inadvertent button presses when the device is in your pocket and therefore wastes the battery.

Where did you get the specs that state the battery is 800mA? I can't find the battery specs for the t665, how does it compare?

Talking about MS access Sony promised at CES that all new Clies would be MS Pro compatible, it looks like they already broke their promise. Bad Sony, bad Sony!!!

Happy Sony Clie User

Played with the other colours at the Sony Store in Ginza a couple of weeks ago. The blue model is beautiful. It is a deep, dark blue translucent plastic - you can see through it just enough to make out the components inside. The rounded edges give the unit an almost organic feel to it. VERY nice.

The orange one was OK too, but a little trendy and loud for business use (but I guess that depends on the business you are in).

Regardless of model, the flip lid was fairly unobtrusive, and "balanced" well on you hand.

~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

yeah but that's probably because you were running other applications on top of it, windows?.... palm os doesn't take very much cpu power, so therefore it is possible for the processor to playback mp3's alone. I remember one of my old portable mp3 players was only 16mhz, but it played back music fine withotu skipping or any inturruptions. Off course it didn't do much else, but that's besides the point. 66 mhz should be more than enough for the cpu to play mp3's.

yes! no dragonball processor-dased device has ever been able to play mp3s on its own. all OS 4 clies that play mp3's do so using a dedicated DSP built into the system in addition to the dragonball processor. the DSP is capable of mp3 playback, while the dargonball is not. speed has absolutely NOTHING to do with it!

Formfactor is the main thing and the 665 has a vibtating alarm.
The SJ33 has an improved battery life and flip cover.

I bought the t665 a week or two ago, and would not have bought it had I known this one was coming out. The t665 has the scroll button in a bizarre place, more than an inch away from the top left corner, forcing you to bend your thumb at a 90 degree angle to use it. The buttons on the t665 are terrible, not stylus friendly, and horrible for gaming. The sj33 puts the scroll button back up in the left hand corner, where it should be, and adds great buttons (as well as having the 66 mhz processor which is the main reason I didn't get the sj30). My main concern is that the fold down cover on the sj33 is going to present a problem for those wanting to use a leather cover. Why use a leather cover when you have this plastic thing? Because I drop my clie, everyone drops their clie, and a thick leather cover gives it some bounce as it hits the linoleum. The place where the grey, transparent cover mounts to the sj33 does not look removable and will present a challenge for flip up leather cover manufacturers (I believe, very well could be proven wrong). (I do not like the leather cases with side zippers because you have to set the clie down to use it...)

I have again checked the other method and accidentally found out that if the SJ33 is connecting with the power transformer, then the IR hotsync can be done.

But who will carry along the power transformer with SJ33 on the road?

This was reported to Sony HK technical supports, they are still searching the source of the problem!!

I already have the same problem hotsync SJ33 using accu power. I have a Thinkpad T23 as Notebook

best regads

juergen

I have a feeling ebay has some more colours. Also the cover does come off but it leaves the big ol hinge behind apparently.

The cover stays out of the way very nicely, and it makes a good sun shade for the screen. I acctauly prefer it over my t615 leather flip cover, which was pretty useless if you droped the thing.

"If cop a feel I must, than cop a feel I shall." - Professor Farnsworth, Futurama