Comments on: Tungsten W Available Feb 28th

Palm SG has formally announced the availability of the Tungsten W. It is now available for pre-order online and will be on sale in selected retail stores beginning Feb 28th. The Tungsten W is a data-centric handheld with voice abilities.
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chinchorrero @ 2/20/2003 1:16:34 PM #
Great job Palm.

hkklife @ 2/20/2003 1:53:40 PM #
Hmmmm, well, I'd say it's a touch too expensive (for the feature set), a bit too underpowered, and a bit too late to merit a "good job, Palm" award. Now, if they get a refreshed version of the T|W out in a reasonable time frame with a 66mhz Dragonball while managing to keep the battery life and price decent, then they might have something. As-is, however, it's got essentially the same innards as the departing i705, aside from the extra ram. That CPU's going to have a hard time pushing around all of those extra pixels. I bought the Rayman MMC games from Palm a few months ago and it runs fairly well but not great on my T|T. Palm specifically recommends against using the game on the T|W. I think that anyone who is entertaining thoughts of doing any serious action gaming on this unit (high-res or otherwise) should reconsider their decision--though I do feel that it's the best execution yet of a wireless-capable handheld. I'm kinda curious to play with one myself, since it will probably "feel" smaller in real life than it looks in the pictures.

So now that Palm SG's "other" new unit is 100% on the market, what is next for them? I'm thinking a ~$250 color midrange unit, perhaps using the Zire formfactor but (hopefully) with a full set of buttons. Or perhaps a updated T|T, with more ram and running OS 5.2 standard, moving the original T|T down another $50 or so?

TooMuch @ 2/20/2003 2:25:19 PM #
I don't want my corporate wireless PIM for games. I want communication.

93LE @ 2/20/2003 3:33:16 PM #
Aah. So communicate on a wireless handheld that can't be used as a phone without a handsfree earphone, and that will take 2 months to render a webpage with it's 33mhz processor. NOW I see the wisdom of Palm...

rsc1000 @ 2/20/2003 3:36:34 PM #
>>That CPU's going to have a hard time pushing around all of those extra pixels.

Agreed - they should have gone with a 66mhz Dragonball - Sony has been using these for a year and how much more would that have cost? I bet the bigger concern was battery life. But with this unit doing so well in the battery department, they probably could afford a little extra juice for the 66mhz. I don't really see a need for an OS5 version at this point - just drives the cost and battery use up. All in all though - nice unit. Only wireless PDA to have 320x320, one of the few to have SDIO (theres the Kyocera, and i believe several PPC Phone Edition units have SD - though the Thera doesn't count because it's such a lame piece of s%@*!). Decent unit - just bring the price down by $200 and i might consider it.

TooMuch @ 2/20/2003 8:43:33 PM #
93LE, I must disagree with you. I have been using wireless pda for 12 months now. It will work fine...not by theory/anticipation...I have experienced differently. I have the older radio works fine...and the newer GSM radio is even faster. However, if you are looking for a pda/phone/gps/xbox/etc. then go ahead and wait for it - next decade when battery technology and a unified national digital service is available to drive it.

OS5 Smartphone

new505user @ 2/20/2003 2:12:56 PM #
Why aren't there any OS5 smartphones? The Kyocera, Handspring, Samsung, and Palm units all run on OS4 derivitives despite the fact that they all went on the market AFTER the introduction of OS5. Even worse, at the rate Palm introduces new products, it will be at least a year until it introduces a real competitor to, say, a Sony-Ericsson P800 (e.g. ARM processor etc.). Thoughts?

RE: OS5 Smartphone
hoodoo @ 2/20/2003 2:52:07 PM #
I don't know...

I'm ignorant here so help me out, what does OS5 offer **in the context of a smartphone** that 4.1 doesn't. Obviously the number one requirement for corporate use is stability and reliability. If the units are handed out to a group, probably a number have never used a Palm device before, and they're not about to surf around the web looking for patches for web browsers or MP3s or whatever. They've got a PIM, they get e-mail, they can make a phone call, and DOCstoGo, and a web browser that works, in hi-res.

So help me out, how would OS5 improve on this?

Mostly I see people here complaining ad nauseum about everything, no matter what.

RE: OS5 Smartphone
93LE @ 2/20/2003 3:28:42 PM #
It's not so much a matter of what OS5 can do (although the ARM process can handle web rendering faster, MP3 playing, etc.), it's the fact that the latest & greatest Palm wireless handheld is running a 5 year old processor and an older version of their operating system.

Just seems goofy to me. Not to mention the fact that the Tungsten W is nothing more than a Treo 300 minus the flip cover and normal phone capability (without a handsfree kit), with a hi-res screen. Whoo friggin' hoo.

I think it's a downright shame this isn't a OS5 unit. Flame away, but I don't see any good reason it ISN'T a OS5/ARM device...

RE: OS5 Smartphone
frauen1 @ 2/20/2003 3:41:37 PM #
The biggest problem isn't device development - it's the way that telco carriers operate. They really don't want any device available to the public until they have verified it on their network.

What does this mean? It means that they want to run a lot of tests to make sure that the device can't tickle some bug or some unexpected sequence of events in the network that could cause it to interfere with other calls/callers, slow down processing on in-network equipment, bring down the network, etc. Carriers are very protective of their networks - they make IT shops look like early adopters. The W had to have been pretty much finished 9 months to a year ago so that they could get the device out and usable now.

I'm sure that's why we haven't heard of an OS 5 device from Handspring - they're really a smartphone vendor now, and they're learning how hard this market really is.

RE: OS5 Smartphone
rsc1000 @ 2/20/2003 3:44:31 PM #
>>Flame away, but I don't see any good reason it ISN'T a OS5/ARM device...


>>it's the fact that the latest & greatest Palm wireless handheld is running a 5 year old processor and an older version of their operating system.Just seems goofy to me.

Ohh - ok then. They should have gone with OS 5 because OS 4 is "goofy" to you. valid reason.

>>Not to mention the fact that the Tungsten W is nothing more than a Treo 300 minus the flip cover and normal phone capability (without a handsfree kit), with a hi-res screen.

NO. Treo uses some sub-version of OS 3.5. It also has no expansion (SDIO). And the 320 x 320 makes web pages, images (think web, MMS), and virtually every application look a hell of a lot nicer. Especially office apps (DocsToGo) - which i always found useless on 160x160 devices. With a web-centric device like this - being able to actually see more of a page as it was intended to be viewed, makes this %100 better then the treo - given the intended function.

RE: OS5 Smartphone
xolstis @ 2/20/2003 4:18:13 PM #
Its not OS5 simply b'cos they can't have an OS5 device b'cos they need to keep the device as small as they can and with decent battery life. ARM processors chew up batt power compared to the dragonballs for the same reason they din use a 66MHz and chose a 33MHz instead though IMHO I wud sacrifice say an hour or so of batt life for a 66MHz processor.

In terms of "smartphone" capabilty OS5 doesn't offer much I think. It just offers more in Multimedia apps and looks a lor nicer.

-the harbinger-

RE: OS5 Smartphone
gfunkmagic @ 2/20/2003 4:34:14 PM #
"Why aren't there any OS5 smartphones?"

Don't worry, HS should come out with by this summer if the rumors are correct. Furthermore, all these smartphones were in development before OS 5 was released. They took so long to come to market b/c every wireless provider puts these phones thru exaustive testing before they release on their networks. Just take for instance the lenghty delay of the Kyocera 7135 by Verizon. A bad phone can bring a network to stand still and thus smartphone development and release is far more complicated than pda's. Many OEM's, even Nokia, have had to embarrasingly withdraw mobiles from release b/c of their buggy nature on networks. Additionally, it is commonly stated that the smartphone product clycle is approximately 9 months behind the pda segment. Using that time frame, we should start seeing the 1st OS smartphones by June 2003 at the earliest if we're lucky, but then again the providers have to sign off as well...

RE: OS5 Smartphone
new505user @ 2/20/2003 4:35:59 PM #
I don't think that's necc. correct. In today's WSJ, Walt Mossberg reports that wrt to Sony-Ericsson's ARM9-equipped P800 "Battery life is spectacular, as long as you don't run it down playing music or games. Talk time can be as much as 13 hours." Furthermore, OS5 (and frankly 0S6 with real multitasking so I could talk on the Phone AND use an app at the same time...otherwise why else have the headset?) would offer real advantages such as faster rendering of webpages, ability to support multimedia apps like Realplayer (available on newest OS5 Clie) or MMS, and ability to open excel, word, and PDF files on the fly with the soon-to-be-available apps from DataViz et al. 0S5 is only barely comparable to Symbian OS7 and yet there still isn't a single Palm OS5 phone!! C'mon guys, give me a reason not to switch!!

RE: OS5 Smartphone
jlapp @ 2/20/2003 5:01:28 PM #
The only reason I can think of for OS5 is bluetooth, which would be very nice for this. (bt headset)
RE: OS5 Smartphone
Admin @ 2/20/2003 5:07:48 PM #
The W does have limited mulitasking abilities, i.e. you can work on a spreadsheet or take notes while in a call.
RE: OS5 Smartphone
xolstis @ 2/20/2003 5:42:19 PM #
Bah am still waiting for a dedicated PDA running OS5 with a small form factor to offer and alternative to the T|T. Not that I have anything against the T|T its a great PDA but it would be nice to have alternatives. When was the TG50 supposed to be released again?

If they can barely come up with dedicated PDAs with small enough form factor, running OS5, hi-res WITH a decent battery life, how long will it be before they can have a smartphone with all that specs?

-the harbinger-

RE: OS5 Smartphone
TooMuch @ 2/20/2003 8:54:22 PM #
Those who don't like the W can buy it's equivalent competitor...
Treo (no hi-res, weak battery, small screen, etc.)
Blackberry (no color, limited OS, no full-size peripheral keyboard)
Sony P800 (limited available addons for OS, limited peripherals, etc.)
Clie (no wireless)
Siemens Pocket PC (the name bothers me, etc.)

RE: OS5 Smartphone
james_sorenson @ 2/21/2003 10:52:24 AM #
Sorry guys, but this thing is just WAY behind the times! I'm not getting a Palm until it has a 1024x768 color 3D screen with a quad-processor, 2-year battery life, built-in joystick, USB, BlueTooth, Firewire, SCSI, and PCMCIA expansion slots!

Sheesh, don't you guys ever get tired of demanding technology that is either not available, or just too expensive for the general public? Palm could probably make what you want, but how many people want to carry an $800 phone on their belt?

Yes, the Pocket PC arena has some pretty powerful SmartPhones. Call me when they finally get a phone with more than 2-days battery life and an OS that doesn't tick me off. I will admit that Symbian is tough to beat, but there isn't much office software available for it.


James Sorenson

Nice but...

Midknyte @ 2/20/2003 4:06:26 PM #
...I'm holding out to see the Kyocera.

RE: Nice but...
drw @ 2/20/2003 8:03:04 PM #
Nice but I like my SPCS unlimited data for $30/month. Also, they should have done like the upcoming Samsung i700 and put a mic and speaker on the reverse side so you could hold it to your head with screen facing outwards (so it wouldn't get smudged).

RE: Nice but...
hkklife @ 2/21/2003 9:18:05 AM #
I'm also holding out for the Kyocera but it's really taking *far* too long to get this thing into the hands of the public. I've been amazed at how many "everyday Joe 6-pack" type users somehow found out about the existence (word of mouth, likely) of the Kyocera unit, rushed over to their SPrint/Verizon store, got a dazed and confused look, and then got frustrated and bought a Treo or just stuck with their m100 and bought a readily available color cell phone such as the Moto T720 or similar.

I know the FCC requires these devices to undergo a lengthy testing process, but it's very quickly approaching the time where the "next" great thing will be announced and will make the Kyocera's feature set pale by comparison. Even if 90% of the users out there don't need OS5, they will think it will somehow better them to wait for the first smartphone that uses it. I personally would have bought the Kyocera had it been readily available from Verizon a few months ago but I instead bought a T|T (when all I wanted was more ram and a bette screen over my m505), a cheap mp3 CD player, and stuck with my old v60.

Handspring R.I.P.

VisorMiser @ 2/20/2003 4:38:32 PM #
This may very well be Handspring's death blow. It's a ground-zero strike right in what's left of HS's market segment, offering techology features (too numerous to list) that HS was simply too slow if not downright unwilling to incorporate in a handheld.

I hope I'm wrong--Handspring started out with so much innovation--but I'm looking for HS in Chapter 11 (if not Chapter 7) by year-end.

the VisorMiser
Where will ya be when ya get where you're goin'?

RE: Handspring R.I.P.
Puck @ 2/20/2003 5:39:05 PM #
Naw - the Palm/Handspring merger is almost at hand...

RE: Handspring R.I.P.
rluxemburg @ 2/21/2003 1:49:34 AM #
Hardly. Treos rock.

RE: Handspring R.I.P.
Yao @ 2/21/2003 3:04:02 AM #
Yo Well Ive Been Ready all the Comments No body here knows or gets the Point heres why Palm is going to launch the palm W thats good I think the W Is very cool phone/PDa Etc as Handspring they got the Treos and they are no longer going to make the Visor series which I think its Pretty messed up but there market is going to Make More Treos and they no longer make the treo 180 what does that mean that there going to launch 2 new units in Early April or may with Verizon And Tmobile Just like the Treo 300 locked. with better screen SD ETC + handspring has the Blazer and palm does not blazer is the way to go Not WAP. Has anybody asked or thought that if you brake the earpiece part You are Fudged with the treos you SPeaker Flip lid and earbud I know you have to what till april to but the part for the W but thats why Blackberry is going out of business there Phones Suck and there selling there Instant Email to hanhspring so i think handspring started the PHOne/PDa devices and they have launched 3 treos and Palm only 1. I think handspring is going to come out on top. But I still think that The Palm W is A cool Device no ?.

RE: Handspring R.I.P.
VisorMiser @ 2/21/2003 4:16:47 PM #
There's no debating that Treos are fine products, they just aren't enough to bail out a company. Handspring alienated their core client base (i.e. Visor users) when its execs released the obit for the Visor when they released the Treo.

Regarding a Palm-Handspring merger, with my heart, I hope it happens--I own three Visors and it would be a symbolic blow if the Palm community were to lose it's capricious step-child to neglect. With my head, I don't see what Palm would gain by gobbling up Handspring. It's technology is dated and it's pipeline is thin.

Handspring was too slow to innovate (Hi-res, POS 4 & 5, SD, Bluetooth, ... you name it) and way too ****y when it did, "You Visor users had better all buy Treos because we're abandoning the product you're carrying". In a month, Donna & Co. alineated almost their entire market base because they forgot that every Handspring customers was a Visor owner at that time. They did keep their word--the Visor line has not seen an update in 2 years. The Treo is a fine product, necessary but not sufficient.

the VisorMiser
Where will ya be when ya get where you're goin'?

Why isn't ATT subsidising the cost of T|W?

gfunkmagic @ 2/20/2003 4:42:37 PM #
This is very peculiar IMO. Many other smartphones like the Treo 270/300 are subsidised by T-mobile/Sprint for large percentage of cost. Why hasn't ATT done so? Is this an early adopter tax? I hope the cut the price soon...

RE: Why isn't ATT subsidising the cost of T|W?
Admin @ 2/20/2003 5:09:05 PM #
The $549 is the price without a serivce contract. AT&T has not announced what they will price the device at but you can probably expect it to be roughly 100 ~ 150 less... Does anyone know what it's going for in Singapore with a new contract?
RE: Why isn't ATT subsidising the cost of T|W?
rogerkang @ 2/20/2003 5:21:32 PM #
I'm sure they are/will. The $549 price is w/o activation.

If they offer the Tungsten W w/ Sprint PCS and give it atleast a 66mhz processor, I'll buy it. I don't mind the fact that you have to use the earbud (how I use my phone usually anyways).

RE: Why isn't ATT subsidising the cost of T|W?
xolstis @ 2/20/2003 5:58:08 PM #
A quick surf to SPUG(singapore PUG) and singtel's website doesn't seem to tell anything about the availabilty of the T|W at all. One would think its not even available yet.

-the harbinger-
RE: Why isn't ATT subsidising the cost of T|W?
glenngillery @ 2/21/2003 4:01:10 AM #
When the Treo 300 first came out, it was $500 for the most part. A few months later is usually when the product starts getting discounted and/or subsidized.


As huge as the PPC Phone

twkermit @ 2/21/2003 1:27:33 AM #
the size of Tungsten W is as huge as the old Ipaq3630,
If so, why TW?

Just go to get a XDA,
at least, you can have MP3 and Video and 32M RAM.

Bluetooth SD Card + Headset

cyman777 @ 2/22/2003 5:32:27 PM #

Does anyone know if a BT headset works with the T|W if one plugs a BT SD card into it?

Would be great!!

If they could only let you chose between a keyboard and 480x320 screen with Graphity/Jot only I would opt against this small keyboard!

RE: Bluetooth SD Card + Headset
Best of Bread @ 2/22/2003 10:46:14 PM #
OK.. the best approach, if you're going to sign up with AT&T, is to do what I've done. I have a T/T and the Sony/Ericsson t68i (Which can be purchased for $50.00 with a plan). I also own the Jabra Freespeak bluetooth enabled headset that communicates directly and wirelessly with my t68i. (Great talk time and the best sound I've found.)

I make calls by touching the appropriate contact on my T/T. The call goes out to my t68i which communicates with my Freespeak. I hear a beep in my BT headset just before the first ring.

I can also send SMS messages from my T/T directly to my t68i, as well as update my Avantgo through the t68i via the T/T.

Whenever I want to surf the web using my T/T, I just need to make sure that my t68i is within 10 meters of my T/T. This is the most amazing set up. I've been using it now for the past 4 months and cannot imagine ever going back to an all-in-one device (who's concept I now consider "toast."

A co-worker of mine who's been carrying around a handheld windows version with Sprint saw this set up and action and immediately put his all-in-one on Ebay.

Hope this helps.

RE: Bluetooth SD Card + Headset
kevinfreitas @ 2/25/2003 1:03:39 PM #
So, Best, can you tell me whether or not you have a data plan with your wireless carrier? If so, how did you set your T|T to hook up to the internet?

RE: Bluetooth SD Card + Headset
Best of Bread @ 2/27/2003 11:57:31 PM #

Yes, I have a data plan with AT&T that provides several meg for about $10.00 per month. I believe there is another plan that provides unlimited access for around $80.00.

The T/T has browser provided on the bonus CD that allows me to surf the web from my T/T through my T68i. Works like a champ!

Using the T/W on other networks

scribe @ 2/23/2003 1:54:01 AM #
Does anyone know how difficult it will be to install sim cards for other GSM-GPRS network providers in the Tungsten W? I live in Asia and have ordered a W unlocked (without a provider). I'm told that it should be no problem to install a sim card from an Asian provider with a compatible network. But I'm not sure why it's so difficult to do so in the U.S. if that's the case. Why is the W limited to the AT&T network when others like T-mobile also have GSM-GPRS service? Why is the Blackberry more flexible in this regard than the Palm?

wireless plan?

cyruski @ 2/23/2003 12:27:14 PM #
it seemed.. somewhat absurd.
$99 for 100mb!? it's free here!

Available now!!

greentruck15 @ 2/24/2003 8:18:58 AM #
This is available now on palm store!
Buy One!

Tungsten W not as good as Treo!

T.W.G @ 2/24/2003 12:13:18 PM #

as I had the opportunity to do a review on a preproduction unit last year I can say that this is NOT a competitor to the Treo-line from Handspring.

The Tungsten W had no lit up Keyboard and voicetelephony is possible ONLY via headset.

It run's on 4.1 and had this awful piezo-speaker like on a Palm V.
Volume is much to low and only the vibrating alert rocks ;-)

But: Buildquality seemed to be very good!
Display is the same blueish bad Display found on the Tungsten T.
The Sony Displays are much better in my opinion.

Excuse my english and Greetings from Germany :-)


Wireless ?

boo @ 2/26/2003 7:06:25 AM #
wireless without builtin mic and speaker is plain stoopid :( - i am disappointed.
Ive got a "W"
Origen @ 3/1/2003 9:34:54 PM #
It's a beautiful device. Seems a lot faster on loading pages than the Tungsten T with the Ericsson. (Even though a slower processor...curious). It would be cool if they just through BT in also, not only for headset options, which would have totally made it "wireless" but also for those times Im in range of my own LAN with the BT dongle for access.

The Treo 300 looks totally cheesy and Playskool-ish next to this.


RE: Wireless ?
donaldekelly @ 3/2/2003 12:15:27 AM #
the TW "does feature a Texas Instruments TCS2100 baseband processor for advanced GSM/GPRS performance. Palm says the device, as a result, offers one of the fastest data-transfer rates available over GPRS."
- Pen Computing Magazine December 2002

someone tell me how to add a picture, then I will really scare you all!

Triband -- Support for GSM, TDMA and Analog?

graystrickland @ 2/26/2003 10:57:15 AM #
A review of the Tungsten W whic appeared in PC Magazine,4149,903129,00.asp

refers to it as a "tri-band" phone. Does that mean that this phone will support GSM, TDMA *and* Analog Cellular?

I'm an ATT customer. I've been waiting forever for a Palm-enabled phone which would work on its existing TDMA and Analog Cellular network. GSM alone won't work for me. Even GSM+TDMA is not enough, because I travel to too many small towns.

RE: Triband -- Support for GSM, TDMA and Analog?
greentruck15 @ 2/28/2003 7:58:22 AM #
900/1800/1900 MHZ international radio

W now availabe in Franklin Covey Stores!

zrs70 @ 3/4/2003 2:26:04 PM #
Went to Franklin Covey in LA yesterday and played with the W for a while. They had three in stock. Great PDA!



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