Comments on: Rumor: More Info on the Zire 71

Jon Acheson

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

The 5-way joystick on some of SonyEricsson's phones are extremely usable and I would love to see something like them on a PDA. I don't mean the one on the T68i - the T300, T600 and T610 type joysticks are amazing.

I am looking forward to more info on this possible little gem.

Wi-Fi SD Cards Delayed Until Mid-Year
http://www.brighthand.com/article/Wi-Fi_SD_Cards_Delayed_Until_Mid-Year

It's not a real surprise to me that these WiFi SD Cards are delayed. WiFi integrating into these small SD Cards is very tough imho. Bluetooth is much better qualified (size) to put into small cards and/or products

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

(sarcasm)

The most Zen part of Palm is the OS, Launcher and GUI. Most applications stick to Palm OS look and feel, but more and more are ignoring it.

Most users are not even aware how powerful and quick Palms built in HTML rendering and PQA's are, instead prefering to wait 30 seconds or more for a full rendering. Many applications could benefit from using this within them, but don't.

The weirdest thing about the death of Zen is the VFS solution. Instead of app designers writing software that runs seemlessly with all or some of it on a memory card they leave it up to people to buy third party solutions - So many users replace the launcher with a third party one.

All I want is Palm application designers to create their software so that if I install it on an SD card at Hotsync it runs as normal and can find it's databases. Is this too much to ask?

I don't think there is much room for the Zen of Palm anymore. Palm's seem very tricky to set up and get working to their best ability when they should be very simple.

Edward Green
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http://www.khite.co.uk

All you haters can drop dead.

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Am I the Man? The man I am.

"Where's the market leadership? This just tells me 'if you want to get the latest in features, get a Sony; if you want to get a cheap knock-off, get a Palm.'"

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And what this comment tells me is that you're really going overboard in yet another attempt at claiming that Sony is soon going to destroy Palm. Granted, Sony has beaten Palm to the punch on some high-profile features. But I don't think Sony was the first to offer built-in Bluetooth on a PalmOS device. And I don't believe Sony will be the first company to offer a device with OS5.2 and Graffiti2, especially at the rumored price point.

I understand your point--Palm wouldn't offer some features if Sony hadn't, but isn't that obvious for ANY competitive industry? HP is about to offer a dual-slot iPaq, but I bet if you check out the PPC boards, you won't see people complaining about the iPaq, as the "market leader," waiting so long to include this feature. And yet we have to see this drivel on PIC, and it's getting tiresome.

Oh, and on the subject of Graffiti 2, I'm hoping that someone will make an add on program (like Crossing Over or Graffiti Anywhere) that will add G1 back into the OS, kind of like a hack.

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

What's with that mentality anyway, and do these prophets and technology wizards ever say "I guess I missed that call" or is it "Wait until next year!"

Sony had had some innovations, and some of them have indeed been ala the Microsoft "Innovation" syndrome. But where would Sony be if they had no competition? Worse, where would the consumer be?

I tend to prefer Palm products over most others because of the basic form factor. Others (I don't think I need to even mention Sony) are trying to make THE All-in-One device, regardless of size.

Maybe Palm will try it someday, but I (and probably a few others) want a PDA- a personal digital assistant that I don't have to carry in an Alice pack, not a Portable Home Entertainmet Center.

For those who want IT all, fine. But to argue that failing to include a Direct TV dish in a PDA is the death knell, is laughable.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

If this Zire 71 is real -- and I think it probably is -- this looks like one of the best PalmOS PDAs in a long time (since the m505, I'd say).

I'm not sure that Palm really knows the answers to these questions."<<

Palm may not know the answer to them all, but I'm not sure that proves your point about the name. I mean, really, Palm V sells but Palm VII doesn't, and it's the name that's the reason? Not quite sure about that one.
Actually, considering Palm's ability to market devices like the m100 and the Zire successfully, I think you may be selling their marketing department short.

The name isn't the end-all, be-all. But it is an important part of product positioning. Especially the name of the product family. That tends to shape product perception. Which would customers prefer, a pentium 4, or a same speed pentium 4 relabeled with the celeron name? There's no difference, but most would want the P4 anyway.

"Actually, considering Palm's ability to market devices like the m100 and the Zire successfully, I think you
may be selling their marketing department short."

Sony is still growing in marketshare and numbers sold. Palm is still dropping in numbers sold and keeps even in marketshare only because everyone else but sony is losing marketshare. And this is despite the fact that every device sony sells is more expensive than the zire.

Palm's marketing pretty much amounts to letting engineers design specs, tossing the product out for sale, running a few ads, and hoping it does well. I've seen that same setup at many companies, and they mostly don't know why they succeed, and don't know why they fail.

The Palm hardware group is called the "solutions" group. I'm not really seeing many solutions coming out of there. More like bits and pieces of technology that the customer must tack together themselves. If they would actually target specific groups, then they could start making solutions that solve problems from out of the box. Finding these target groups is a marketing problem.

I bet that Palm could sell 2M zires per year to schools alone if they would target them correctly.

Go to: www.robofish.com/download/beta/tealscrp.zip

Let there be Virtual Graffiti / Jotness.

Virtual Jaffiti? Sounds like a Jamiroquai tune...

But honestly: Gimme, gimme, I need, I need.

sundance

I think the VG is a absolutly necessay.
I've owned Palm Vx, foolishly preordered m505, and currently use NR60. I just cant go back to a square screen. I really want OS5 machine but I'm gonna wait for somehting like this Zire, but with VG and BT or WiFi.

IMHO!
Sam

Ay-Men. Better that I can't see the screen 5% of the week because it's too dark than that not being able to see it 20% of the week because the battery is dead and I haven't been by the cradle lately.

I'm worried that 'Broken record' people are going to drive good battery life units off the market before I buy my next PDA (Not for a while yet.)

The 1910 has a *smaller* screen in terms of pixel count, only 240 vs. 320 pixels in width, or 25% smaller. The display refresh power is roughly proportional to the number of pixels.

"As for your claim that reflectives are "brighter and richer" than tranflectives....I can only say...LAY OFF THE CRACK!! There is no way anyone could possibly believe that Toshiba's screens are "better" than the current generation of transflectives like the HP 1910. That's just crazy talk! ;)"

Please reread my post. I said the transflectives were brighter and richer than the reflectives. I understand this. I am not sure (for me) it is worth trading off even a little out of doors effectiveness. I use my PDA out of doors about 1/3 of the time and have to have at least as good a outside screen as I do with my NR.

Anyway, the screen of the NR, if transflective, is no brighter than most reflectives. It certainly is not as bright as the screens that I am 100% sure are transflectives; the 3900 and newer Ipaqs. In fact, I can hardly tell the difference (except for the VG, of course, between a Sony N760 and my NR)

How sure are you that the NR is transflective and how do you explain reports that the NZ is a whole level brighter than the NR or NX. (I am assuming here, that the TG uses the same screen technology as the NX, I haven't seen one up close and running yet.)

As for outdoor visibility problems, this is largely a myth. Both REFLECTIVE and TRANSFLECTIVE are made to be viewed outdoors. While it is true that Reflectives have a slight edge over Transflectives outdoors (transflectives have a slightly darker background), the difference is negligible. And anyone that says it is hard to view these screens outdoors is a liar. Usually these comments are made by TT apologists who try to justify their dust ridden $500 investment.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/71vg.jpg

This technology is already here, someone needs to just do it. The eBook reader flop that I think Franklin came out with was the closest I've seen. The SJ series(glass area) & garmin are gettin' this direction. HP1910 pretty strong too although from the "dark side".

Sorry for the crude photo edit & also don't try to make sense of that datebook either! :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

I don't think that PPC's can have displays with that resolution."
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PPC seems doing OK in chinese and japanese market, no display complain. In fact there are more company selling PPC in Japan than POS.,Palm Inc almost gone, Handspring bailing out, leaving only Sony. (PPC: Fujitsu, NEC, Tosh, Casio, Dell, HP...2 more smaller companies)

"That's a competitive advantage for Palm in terms of battery life (whether or not they know it). "
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I am sorry to prick your delusion, but current PPC has longer battery life than all ARM POS. In fact after PXA255, T|T will be dead last.

1.all ARM POS (T|T/NX) are in the LOW range of battery endurance compared to recent PPC. I say ARM POS because you are going to blurb about Zire, Vx, mxxx, SJ or whatever other dragonball paperweight and how those are the real PALM, what public wants, sell the most, or whatever other inane comment about what suppose to be a real PDA.

2.whatever announcement was printed on PIC. PPC uses any of new arm chip first. (SA, 250, 255). talking about it first doesn't mean jack until product hit the market.

3. there is NO new TI chip. it's OMAP 1510 period. PXA255 already out in the market and benchmark indicates it uses about 20-30% less power.

I also don't want a camera in my PDA. That's just a toy...I'd rather they used the space for a larger battery.

But hi res screen with OS5 is great.

Maybe the NEXT model out will have virtual graffitti.

************************************************

For what shall it profit a man if he were to gain the whole world, but lose his own soul.

Palm SG developed 100 preproduction units for testing. Agent #71 was fired yesterday when nobody stepped forward to offer information on who leaked a photo to PIC.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

This can easily be one of two things:

1) A proof copy (they are always riddled with errors, hence the proofing!)

2) A retailer's ad (man, can they make mistakes!!)

I believe this is real.

I *really* hope that the Graffiti area will be backlit on this one but I really don't think we are ever going to see another backlit fixed Graffiti area, G1 or G2 or otherwise. We'll have to wait 'til VG is embraced by Palm for that one!

Of course, maybe I just want to believe it. I want to upgrade my Clie T615 and I don't want a 3lb., folding brick with a keyboard, 5 Megapixel camera, and a toaster with a 45 minute battery life. Also, SD would be nice instead of Memory Schtick. Since Sony doesn't seem to understand this, I am hoping Palm does.

Just my own opinion.

Pepper, while you have the rep cornered, ask about the T|T2 for me... My kids were going to get me an upgrade and I've been waiting since January!

-Pepper

I love my Palm . . . do you?

Were any unwrapped so you could try the camera firsthand? I hope those pictures are an anomaly and that the camera is as good as the second-gen eyemodule from IDEO. If the camera is as bad as those half-a**ed efforts from Kodak, it'll be another nail in Palm's suicidal coffin...

See eyemodule samples here --

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2001/03/23/qt_authoring.html

By the way Dropper. YOU DA MAN!

Any idea if it will be able to record voice memos?

Hey, p_b_d -- what's up with that Date Book screen?! Did Palm SG (or S) really add all that color to the app? (Or is this just another marketeer's cruel mock-up?)

Hell, even if the stylus is plastic, please tell me it is still BETTER than that damn toothpick all CLIEs now ship with!

And, if you actually tried this thing, how well did the camera app integrate with the OS? Can you plop photos into Address too?

Is Palm planning to drop the price of their Tungsten T line significantly?? Because they'll never sell another one if this Zire is released at $250."

You're wrong. ;)

The TT has a metal body and collapses into a shorter device. The TT also has Bluetooth and comes bundled with DTG, which is at least $40, right? This device comes bundled with a photo viewer app (probably developed in-house) and a camera. So, I don't think the price difference is unreasonable considering that the metal body, compact size, and bluetooth of the TT will appeal to business users (who are used to spending more money).

Scott

Sorry, I guess I missed that one.

"Bluetooth is worthless to me, as is the silly slider. Certainly not worth $150 price difference.

Let me also add-- I am in business, and spending more money for a inferior product- is very poor business."

With all due respect, the fact that bluetooth is useless to YOU, doesn't really amount to much. I don't think Palm designs their devices just for you. The fact is that a lot of people DO want bluetooth. In fact, Palm once stated that all of their new devices would have some form of wireless, but costs seem to be preventing them from accomplishing that. Until BT becomes standard in ALL Palm devices, that nifty app they developed for sharing/rating apps you have installed on your device won't become a part of the core experience. On a side note, what does "I am in business" mean, anyway? Aren't we all (except for those out of work, of course)?

In any case, I like that "useless slider", because it makes the device more compact. So, I don't care about the slider, per se, just the end result. I also like the big nav pad better than that joystick, but I'll have to hold off my final opinion until I've actually had a chance to play with one first hand.

Scott

-Eric

I can't wait to try this baby.

We don't need to know his name. Right now, just him Da Man.

Yes, but some of us know better. Some of us know that you're real name sounds like a TV reporter. ;)

Scott

Scott

However the 64mb or ram and WiFi support means I'll probably be getting the T|C rather than the Z71.

I only wish this units were 320x480 instead of 320x320 (Virtual Grafiti).

-Eric

How would you say the screen compares to other competing handhelds, say the HP 1910 for example?

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

Well that doesn't bode well. Those pictures are absolutely awful. The main problem is not with lighting but sharpness. Color quality and brightness appear to be good, but if it can't take clearer pictures than those, I certainly won't be interested.

Other thoughts: That aluminum back looks kinda strange. Looks too shiny (like chrome). Reminds me of the metal plating manufacturers use on the inside of their devices for RF shielding.

Scott

>> Good thing I don't work for Palm eh. Or do I????

Backplate looks like "Made in China", anyone know if this is the case, and how many 2 finger white are working in a plant in China??

Hey Scott, That thing would not make a good rest. It is not flat. It goes in. It is not like this:
[]

It is like this:
[

Do you like my diagrams?

Not really fond of blue. And if someone has already asked this, and answered this, then sorry as I have ADD and reading takes too much time. :)

Thanks. Laterz.

-M

Meckter

Meckter 'late night' Vargas

You gonna attach your Z71 to your rocket and lauch it?
Smoke a pole.

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Am I the Man? The man I am.

They ALSO don't usually release one so.....good.

I am not a leech!!!!
I typed those comments myself! I did not steal this info. And the link to the phots weren't they also on this site?

I would give credit to the source! I work @ officemax and the specs were downloaded in our system that day. Thank you very much

PBD, you should change your signature to "I wish I was a man a man I wish I was"..

Oh and you're not even close to what Palm is doing..

That said, if history is any indicator, $249 is too high; the price will probably go below $200 sometime next year.

Well said. Being the market leader doesn't make you a success story when taking a $174 million loss.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

CUT THE PRICE *NOW*! CUT THE PRICE *NOW*! CUT THE PRICE *NOW*!

Yup, I could go for this palm sans camera.....I have no need for it.

Fatal mistake....

Averted....for now.

I just hope it comes out soon :-))

Thanks for the replies!

Lo_Pro

That is Sony's most recent patent for the Jog Dial - you can thank Sony for the device not appearing on PalmSG handhelds ...

The Z-71 isn't on their website.

None of the other stores had it though, including Best Buy. And, I asked the General Manager of CompUSA and he said it hadn't been released yet. Are these couple of stores jumping the gun?

I'm not interested if it's a reflective screen. Can't stand those (like on the Tungsten T). But if they've finally switched to transflective, I guess it's not bad, for the price. Though the lack of voice memo hurts it, and I doubt it's as capable for media stuff as Sony's NX series.