Comments on: Rumor: Is this the Tungsten T|2?

Tungsten T|2?A picture of what may be the next Tungsten T replacement has been posted to a Chinese PDA message board. Though not many details are known and the picture's authenticity can not be confirmed, this may be evidence of a coming updated Tungsten T.
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This one may actually be real

sgingras @ 6/5/2003 7:39:22 PM #
If that is a PhotoShop spoof, then it is a nice job. The screen looks realistic and has a Graffiti 2 icon. Of course, I bought stock in Enron.

cheers,
Steve

RE: This one may actually be real
rsc1000 @ 6/5/2003 10:59:50 PM #
>>The screen looks realistic and has a Graffiti 2 icon

Just to nit-pick - the graffit 2 icon is the same as trhe graffiti icon - with the number 2 added to the name of course. However, i belive this does look like a real photo. Afterall - if somebody was going to fake a new device they would most likely go for something more radically different than this. I think this will be a welcome update.

RE: This one may actually be real
Bones3D @ 6/6/2003 10:35:28 AM #
Maybe it's real, maybe it's not... but something doesn't quite add up... Why is someone who posts to a chinese-only message board using an english version of the Palm OS?

Just one more thing... I find it rather strange someone on the inside of Palm with access to the company's prototypes would have easy access to a flatbed scanner and enough time to scan the device with a sync cable attached to it. Seems to me, someone would have noticed that.

Just a thought. ;-)

8==8 Bones 8==8

RE: This one may actually be real
amflores @ 6/6/2003 11:05:19 AM #
Not to start a flame or something, just curiosity: how do you know he used a flatbed scanner and it´s not a digital photo?

RE: This one may actually be real
Bones3D @ 6/6/2003 11:25:37 AM #
Two things give it away:

First, the gradation of the background behind the PDA from light at the top (the cover is closest to the glass here) to the darkness at the bottom (the cover is farthest away here). Also, note the drop shadow on the PDA body is on the left of the image, while the shadow from the sync cable is clearly visible on the right of the image. If it was a stationary light source, the drop shadows would be on the same side of the image.

8==8 Bones 8==8

RE: This one may actually be real
Tere @ 6/6/2003 12:14:25 PM #
But if you look at the "Palm" logo "marble", yuo can see what appears to be the reflection of a florescent light fixture in the upper right quad. In the lower left edge of the hole where the marble is set, there appears to be glare form that light source.

The upper right corner of the background looks about the same shade as the lower right and lower left corner. I think there are multiple light sources, accounting for the multiple shadows.

As for English vs. Chinese OS, just because it was leaked to or by a Chinese rumor page doesn't mean it's Chinese device. I'd guess that first rounds of Palm devices would have an English OS.

- Tere

- Tere

RE: This one may actually be real
jchen @ 6/6/2003 4:13:26 PM #
Do you think that we Chinese doesn't know English? :)
Actually most of us in that forum can use English very well. All of high school students in China knows English. I'm using a English version of SONY Clie SJ30. So it's not surprised that an English version of TT appeared on a Chinese forum.

RE: This one may actually be real
enjolras @ 6/6/2003 4:13:31 PM #
The reason it's an English version of the OS is that it's likely what is being produced in the Chinese production facility. This could very well be a line unit that was pulled for quality assurance testing.



RE: This one may actually be real
Gremmie @ 6/6/2003 8:54:45 PM #
Well, a lot of PDA's have been leaked onto the internet (excluding FCC), some of those were leaked here. Other than the iWalk fake I really see no reason to say this is not real.

RE: This one may actually be real
naturefreak85 @ 6/7/2003 1:21:47 PM #
no way it is a photoshop spoof, the tungsten T has a more blueish color to it not a silverish color, so i suspect it is real

RE: This one may actually be real
bargainPDA @ 6/8/2003 11:49:49 AM #
I don't think it is a spoof, Adama Brown wrote this article for bargainpda and he's a professional in the world of graphics and editing and gives several reasons why it is not a fake:

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=1419

Comments on the Chinese Message Board

Fahad429 @ 6/5/2003 7:46:02 PM #
LOL! I don't want to sound mean or anything, but the comments on the message boards sound so hilarious! No offense anyone! This is all in good humor! ;)

RE: Comments on the Chinese Message Board
Fahad429 @ 6/5/2003 7:51:17 PM #
"Must change is not also difficult! RAM rises 32m, OS rises 5.2" hehe, that is what one guy said on there! Try saying it with a bit of an accent :)

RE: Comments on the Chinese Message Board
crustyedgeofinnovation @ 6/5/2003 8:12:55 PM #
Hey, I'm Chinese and I find that very offensive. And I'm a woman too so enough about blondes and boobies.

Just joking, hahaha... me chinese, me make new tt...

www.departmentofcomfort.com

RE: Comments on the Chinese Message Board
rogerkang @ 6/5/2003 8:51:38 PM #
you guys are messed up.
RE: Comments on the Chinese Message Board
Pepper @ 6/5/2003 9:53:30 PM #
You guys shouldn't use translators for chinese. i find they work well for french and spanish (although a tad shady) but the grammer structure is VERY different chinese. reading the responses without translating (this requires knowing chinese ;) ) you can see that it is proper chinese grammer (for the most part)

-Pepper

BTW: crusty edge -- now i know i'm not the only chinese speaking girl on the forums!! cool cool :)

I love my Palm . . . do you?

RE: Comments on the Chinese Message Board
ActionJackson @ 6/6/2003 12:45:02 AM #
On the flip side, if the people in China used a translator to read this PIC story they are also getting a good laugh. The third paragragh refers to the "Graffiti 2 hand-righting system." I wonder how that translates into chinese. ;)
RE: Comments on the Chinese Message Board
jchen @ 6/6/2003 4:08:56 PM #
Do you think that we Chinese doesn't know English? :)
Actually most of us in that forum can use English very well. All of high school students in China knows English. I'm using a English version of SONY Clie SJ30. So it's not surprised that an English version of TT appeared on a Chinese forum.

RE: Comments on the Chinese Message Board
elo @ 6/7/2003 6:31:07 PM #
Right - It's just Americans who only speak one language.

elo

RE: Comments on the Chinese Message Board
Lucky Bob @ 6/8/2003 8:58:05 AM #
Sad, huh?

(Why do some people say you can kill two birds with one stone when it's hard enough killing one bird with two stones?)

Cost? Date?

abosco @ 6/5/2003 7:56:05 PM #
I'm guessing $399, but I doubt this product will make a dent unless it has a powerful X-Scale and much improved battery life. And it should be a little thinner. And now that G2 is included, the slider may not have as much use... not that many people liked its usefulness in the first place, but we'll see.

Anybody want to try the release date?

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: Cost? Date?
TooMuch @ 6/5/2003 8:31:56 PM #
",,,not that many people liked its usefulness in the first place, but we'll see."

With such all-knowing insight, you tell us.

Signed,
One of five guys in our office who still love the soft input area because we hate scratches on the viewable screen and/or dislike blurring a beautiful screen with a penny's worth of static plastic.

RE: Cost? Date?
abosco @ 6/5/2003 11:20:49 PM #
Hey, I never talked bad about the slider. I think the slider wasn't a bad idea, but there weren't enough people who benefit from the functionality. All I did was read the Palm Inc section and deduct that not many people who post here find the slider to be the most useful thing. That's why alternatives like OKey and Graffiti Anywhere are used so frequently and recommended.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
RE: Cost? Date?
Davy Fields @ 6/6/2003 12:14:59 AM #
Well, of course, when people talk about stuff in forums, it's usually to complain about problems... I think that the slider did, and still does make sense... especially with G2... if you want to use the slider, do it.... if not, you never, ever have to!

-Davy Fields
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palm_OS_5/
RE: Cost? Date?
SingSong @ 6/6/2003 1:37:47 AM #
If priced at $399, how will the T/T @ its current price of $349 fare? Since I'm recent to Palm, does anyone recall what became of the m505 once the m515 was released?

I do agree that anything above $399 (e.g., $499...has Palm ever released a new product at $x49?) using the rumored specs (32 mb/TFT) would be unrealistic.

But then again, never discount the weak constitution of the early adopter.

RE: Cost? Date?
Sleuth255 @ 6/6/2003 10:48:00 AM #
I'll take a stab at the release date.

It will either be right around the same time as the compaq release (since the TT2 will be a direct competitor to the iPAQ 1945) or

It will be in the October/November timeframe; PSG's traditional new version introduction window which also marks the 1 yr anniversary of the TT. The M515 was released 1 yr after the M505's introduction as well. In this case it is fun to speculate that PSG themselves may have "leaked" the picture in an attempt to minimize customer loss to HP's new 1945.

I'm 50/50 here (I hope that its the first possibility though).

SingSong: the M505 was dropped from Palm's lineup when the M515 was introduced. This was also the case for the Palm V when the Vx was introduced, although the process was far less distinct. Early versions of the Vx didn't even have the updated nomenclature, which made them virtually impossible to identify.


RE: Cost? Date?
bcombee @ 6/6/2003 11:48:56 AM #
There are reports that new Tungsten T devices have not been shipped to stores lately and that the stock level on the device is very low. Based on this, I'd expect Palm SG to release the TT2 as a replacement in their lineup for the TT. I'd guess that they are waiting for Fathers Day to pass, ending the "Dads and Grads" season so they can sell the remaining TT's before introducing a device that makes the current TT stock obsolete.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Cost? Date?
CaptMyCapt @ 6/6/2003 7:27:08 PM #
Early versions of the Vx didn't even have the updated nomenclature, which made them virtually impossible to identify.
-------------------------------------------
Actually, the early version of the Vx were easy to ID. Although it was not obvious on the front, the "Palm Vx 3Com" registered logo was imprinted on the back, along with several other imprints (e.g., UL listed 40BK - which was just above the reset hole-, TUV, FC, CE, and others). I purchased in Washington DC, as soon as it was released, and two other people I know, one in New York and one in Florida, purchased the Vx sometime after I did, and they had the same imprints on the back.

Captain T

"You will never make progress trying to sail into the wind - chart your course!"

RE: Cost? Date?
Lucky Bob @ 6/8/2003 9:08:26 AM #
"e.g., $499...has Palm ever released a new product at $x49?"

The Tungsten W: $549

"If priced at $399, how will the T/T @ its current price of $349 fare? Since I'm recent to Palm, does anyone recall what became of the m505 once the m515 was released?"

When the m515 was released, the m505 hung around for a while. Then Palm put it into its Hall of Fame. The m505 has still made appearances in Palm's Store over the past year. Right now you can buy an open box m505 and receive an open box m125 for free.

(Why do some people say you can kill two birds with one stone when it's hard enough killing one bird with two stones?)

I think this is a hoax!

GearHead @ 6/5/2003 8:32:18 PM #
I think this is a lousy Photoshop job. Look at the lines next to T2 and distance between the separator and 2. However If this is true, I think current Tungsten T owners such as myself deserve a 5.2 OS and Grafitti 2 update on their machines.

Free 802.11 No More Wires!!!
Support your local WAN!
RE: I think this is a hoax!
Jeffry @ 6/5/2003 8:41:42 PM #
I think this is NOT a hoax. That TFT screen looks so real, the reflections look real. Remember the pics of the rumored Zire 71? People thought it was a photoshopped using a Tungsten T pic but it turns out that it looked indentical to the final product. In addition, the leaked Tungsten C pic looked like a W without an antenna and it came out to be true.

So... what are the chances of this being a hoax?

RE: I think this is a hoax!
infobhan @ 6/5/2003 8:45:11 PM #
This is a real picture. There are some JPEG artifacts, but don't let that fool you into thinking it's fake. The only question is how long before it appears. my guess is 1 month (perhaps July 14, when the current promotion ends)?

RE: I think this is a hoax!
helf @ 6/5/2003 8:47:03 PM #
blow up the area around the name of the unit and look it it.....

RE: I think this is a hoax!
sr @ 6/5/2003 9:08:47 PM #
In the original thread people have already recognized that the discoloration around the Palm logo is actually the clear protective film left on device to protect the screen, you can even see the film's air pockets along the right edge towards the top. I doubt a photoshopper would go through that much trouble when they could have easily chopped up a picture of T|T without the film.

RE: I think this is a hoax!
Crashless @ 6/6/2003 12:38:10 AM #
This is a tough one to call, there are a lot of JPEG artifacts that don't help the usual color gradient checks. But one place where I am tempted to cry foul is on the 'graffiti 2' text under the icon. The 'iti 2' doesn't gradate with the glare on the left side like the other icons above and below it, it's darker. This makes me think they slid the text to the left a little so it is still centered when they added the '2'.

Just my 2 cents.

RE: I think this is a hoax!
Burns @ 6/6/2003 1:19:41 AM #
I'd say fake. The color change around the . . . what is that a speaker or mic? . . . and the Tungsten|T2 logo seem to be a bad paste job. But hey, maybe that's just me. The Graffiti 2 . . . I'v seen programs that will change the displayed name of an app. It's no big deal. So change the name of the Graffiti app, take a pic, edit it so it says T2 and this is what you get. Fifteen minute job at most.
RE: I think this is a hoax!
kev @ 6/6/2003 5:07:49 AM #
don't know if this is genuine or not but i do know that the thing around the palm logo is the plastic screen protector's removal tab. you'll notice in the top right corner of the lcd that there's some cellophane type stuff there.

RE: I think this is a hoax!
abhinay @ 6/6/2003 7:14:38 AM #
actually, if you look at the Graffiti 2 icon, the text beneath, the 2 is a lot darker than the rest of the words.... seems like it's been pasted on. I'm not suggesting its fake, but hey... that just stood out a bit obviously :)

RE: I think this is a hoax!
GearHead @ 6/6/2003 7:34:55 AM #
No matter what you all think, I think this is a major Photoshop job. Also protective film could be real but, this could be a brand new Tungsten T. Why call this Tungsten T2, why not call it new Tungsten T?
On tp of everything there are no new features besides the 32MB RAM, updated OS, better screen and Graffiti 2. I think true update to Tungsten T should be as follows:

400mHz processor
64MB RAM
Built in wi-fi
Buil-in camera without hiding it in the sled, like those Ericsson P800s or new Nokia phones
Newest Screen
5.2 OS
Graffiti 2
etc.


Free 802.11 No More Wires!!!
Support your local WAN!

RE: I think this is a hoax!
Sleuth255 @ 6/6/2003 8:52:34 AM #
Jump into the Palm Inc. forum at this thread:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14158

There's several full size versions of the picture (5 times the resolution). It should help with your analysis.

The picture is real folks.

RE: I think this is a hoax!
timepilot84 @ 6/6/2003 9:16:28 AM #
The thing that makes me wonder the most about this picture is not the "T|2" itself, but the cable connected to it. Why would Palm take a picture of their newest prototype connected (only part way, if you notice) to a crappy third-party cable?

I own a that very crappy cable, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. If this were real, why wouldn't Palm use their own cable for the photo? Like I said, if you notice, the cable is not fully connected to the "T|2". This is the same problem that I had with that cable on my T|T. That end connector uses little hooks to hold itself to the Palm, and the hooks aren't substantial enough to hold on to the Palm for any length of time.

RE: I think this is a hoax!
Sleuth255 @ 6/6/2003 10:19:55 AM #
Darn! I thought that might be some new cradle design that would work with my InnoPocket case (which rules with the SD holder addtn. btw.)

RE: I think this is a hoax!
mszeto @ 6/6/2003 11:04:51 AM #
The plastic film excuse doesn't hold up - Why would they put a plastic film on a product they're not shipping? This is just a prototype!

RE: I think this is a hoax!
neoyuan @ 6/6/2003 11:06:09 AM #
This photo was obviously not taken by Palm. It must be a job of someone close to the factory in China.

Here are what I find:
1) The color of case has a yellow tint, while the T has a blue one.
2) USB hotsync/charge cable is very popular among palm users in China. The photographer used his own cable.

RE: I think this is a hoax!
infobhan @ 6/6/2003 11:11:57 AM #
I don't understand your logic: this is not a prototype. This is probably the real product ready to ship (hence the screen protector). I wouldn't be surprised if we see this in a month or so. They are probably beginning production now.

RE: I think this is a hoax!
Altema @ 6/6/2003 11:40:25 AM #
Think about the scenario: Someone at a manufacturing plant snatches one off the line. The battery has not been charged, and he/she wants to be discreet. So, they plug in their own sync cable so they can turn it on, and scan thing on an office scanner. The factory plastic screen protector was left in place so they could return it to where it belonged without being noticed.

Regardless of the photo being fake or not, the device is real and on the way.


Somebody call CSI!
RAMdŽd @ 6/6/2003 2:16:56 PM #
The forensic analysis offered here cracks me up. One very good point was made- artifacts are not proof of doctoring. Many, many genuine pics have artifacts when not shot well, and shown greatly enlarged.

I don't know if the photo is real or not, PShopped or not. But it always cracks me up that every single photo of a rumored product is always called a fake by somebody who says "...obvious PS job!" And more often than not, the photos are real. Real bad sometimes, but still real.

I don't spend much time here, so I wonder... Does anybody every call someone on their claim of "FAKE!" when the photo is later found to be real?

There must surely be "I told you so!"s when it *is* fake. Just curious.

And those who don't speak a foreign language, and yet make fun of it based on what they read via a software translator, or fail to understand cultural differences in syntax, seriously lack horsepower in the Gray Matter area. But then, they're pretty comical to "watch".


This also cracks me up:

I think true update to Tungsten T should be as follows:

400mHz processor
64MB RAM
Built in wi-fi
Buil-in camera without hiding it in the sled, like those Ericsson P800s or new Nokia phones
Newest Screen
5.2 OS
Graffiti 2
etc.

Maybe Palm should throw in a back pack for this "true update" to the T|T. He forgot to include a phone and electric toothbrush.



______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: I think this is a hoax!
mikecane @ 6/6/2003 2:35:08 PM #
>>He forgot to include a phone and electric toothbrush.

Damn. Now that's going to delay the release of the product!

RE: I think this is a hoax!
JKingGrim @ 6/6/2003 2:58:37 PM #
400mHz processor
64MB RAM
Built in wi-fi
Buil-in camera without hiding it in the sled, like those Ericsson P800s or new Nokia phones
Newest Screen
5.2 OS
Graffiti 2
etc.

Why? Why should it have wifi? The T|c has wifi. Just because you want wifi, doesn't mean the audience that the device is targeted for wants it. I don't want wifi. Why should it have a camera? To dry up Z71 sales? To make it bulky? The T|t is Palms line of compact PDAs.

RE: I think this is a hoax!
Lungboy @ 6/6/2003 3:30:42 PM #
How many hoaxes have been published here versus real images? I vote this to be real

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eagles may soar but at least weasles don't get sucked into jet engines.
RE: I think this is a hoax!
Fzara2000 @ 6/6/2003 5:51:00 PM #
They definitely need a dual-purpose device however.

They need BT and WiFi in one device; so far, that is the only thing I find to be missing with Palm's product line.

Some of you definitely have some good points for it being fake or not, but one thing I dont understand is why there is a blueish tint in screen under most of the icons, except for the white patches under "Date Book". Kind of makes me wonder, if you know what I mean.

"Now thats just PRIME!"

Static Plastic still on screen. Looks real.

TooMuch @ 6/5/2003 8:43:09 PM #
Looking at the larger image file you can see the protective static plastic cover tab protruding from the top of the screen. Looks real to me.

Still no bluetooth indicator...

Jeffry @ 6/5/2003 8:45:56 PM #
WTF. How do you know if the Bluetooth is on or off? I think Palm should redesign the cosmetic appearance of the TT2.

RE: Still no bluetooth indicator...
rsc1000 @ 6/5/2003 11:05:25 PM #
Nah - the TTs look is great. But i do agree with you on the BT indicator. They should just add an extra blue BT led to the same design - stick next to the existing green one.

RE: Still no bluetooth indicator...
RoelvdV @ 6/6/2003 6:11:10 AM #
I use BTToggle, so whenever I need Bluetooth to be turned on, this app does the job.
I also have a T68i with a flashing blue indicator (as well a yellow light on the other side) and I would like to be able to turn these off. It's no use and in the dark it looks like a lighthouse warning ships.

Just my 2 cents (we do have cents again in Holland since the Euro was introduced!).

All I want is an OS upgrade for my Tungsten|T (mark 1)

Greetings, Roel.



RE: Still no bluetooth indicator...
yebo @ 6/6/2003 7:33:27 PM #
Has anyone ever heard of a two color LED?
I've not seen a green/blue one but I have seen Green/Red leds.

A Redtooth indicator? :)

It may even be possible to mount two leds behind the "glass"

So we could have
Green=on
Flashing green=Alarm
Blue/Red=BT on

or they could do a different flash pattern to indicate BT?

It would also be nice if Palm could indicate when charging was finished.

So we probably need 3 indicators

Charge status
Alarm status
BT status

I hope that PSG have been listening to TT users and we see an improvement in the status indicator.

RE: Still no bluetooth indicator...
Altema @ 6/6/2003 11:15:23 PM #
Good idea, I just hope they did something more with the led than what's in the current T|T. Tri-color led's have been around for a while, I've seen green/yellow/red frequently, but it think the ideal for the T|T would be yellow/green/blue: Yellow for charging, green for full charge, blue for BT in use, and an occasional blue blink for BT turned on but not in use. Most T|T owners I've meet have BT turned on in the discoverable + wakeup mode... even those who never use it.

In regards to the charging, the ONLY disadvantage I see with having a charge indicator is that the device will get snatched off the cradle as soon as the green led comes on, rather than letting the device sit there and soak in a deeper charge.

RE: Still no bluetooth indicator...
Gremmie @ 6/6/2003 11:58:37 PM #
It may even be possible to mount two leds behind the "glass"

Some older pocket pc's did that; IMHO it was too difficult sometimes to distinguish

Fake-O-Rama!

mikecane @ 6/5/2003 8:52:02 PM #
Geez, Ryan, we just concluded in a PIC Forum that this thing was a very bad fake. Now it's a PIC headline?!

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
infobhan @ 6/5/2003 8:56:13 PM #
I recall many people concluding that pictures of the "Olso" were fake as well. Looks like they were wrong. JPEG artifact can often look like evidence of a fake. How do you fake the screen shown in the picture? It's clearly a better quality screen than the Tungsten Tcurrently has and has Tungsten T-specific apps (e.g. Phone-Link, Dialer).

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
mikecane @ 6/5/2003 9:11:31 PM #
Go to the forum and you will see another faked picture that looks just as real -- the bottom is pulled away to reveal NO Graffiti area. The screen continues!

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
infobhan @ 6/5/2003 9:42:40 PM #
The image with the extended screen is obviously photoshopped, but it is a photoshopped version of the original picture which is real.

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
mikecane @ 6/5/2003 9:43:46 PM #
I think they are both fakes. Eh. But we'll see. The TT is not something I'm willing to go to the mat about. I want a 320x480 screened unit (he said for the billionth trillionth time...)

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
Foo Fighter @ 6/5/2003 10:38:54 PM #
Looks real to me. And the subtle change in metal color makes sense in relation to Palm's latest Tungsten|C. Although I'm more partial to the earlier gunmetal gray.

If this is real and it has 32MB Ram, Transflective screen, and improved audio (enhanced volume please) I may jump ship to this T|T part deux.

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
abosco @ 6/5/2003 11:24:48 PM #
"I think they are both fakes. Eh. But we'll see. The TT is not something I'm willing to go to the mat about. I want a 320x480 screened unit (he said for the billionth trillionth time..."

No, this looks very real. The one with the extended 320x480 screen was openly said to be photoshopped, but this picture did not come from that user.

This one looks very real. But then again, I doubt it's very hard to get a TT's screen to look a touch brighter on an angle, and then to open it with PhotoShop and put in a 2 next to the Graffiti icon and change the Tungsten logo a bit.

I still stand my ground and say that it's real. I still have yet to be wrong when it comes to rumors.*** ;)

***Disclaimer: Of course I have.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
mikecane @ 6/6/2003 1:42:13 PM #
The second photo -- with huge screen -- looks just as real as the original, which I why I think the original is also fake.

None of this is to say that there isn't such a beast coming; just that I disbelieve this photo. Eh.

CSI says: Fake-O-Rama!
RAMdŽd @ 6/6/2003 2:33:14 PM #
I recall many people concluding that pictures of the "Olso" were fake as well. Looks like they were wrong. JPEG artifact can often look like evidence of a fake.


Exactly. I don't know why every psuedo-PS expert things artifacts from a greatly enlarged jpeg must be the work of Adobe.

There are a number of examples of shipping/shipped products that look "FAKE!" when "blown-up". Drag an image off of a manufacturer's site and enlarge it. Unless it's a pic intended for media use, it will often quickly degrade.

I'll wait until there is more "evidence" one way or another. The Oslow looked real enough to me, even with the artifacts and the PIC Peanut Gallery yelling "fake".

The good thing is that if one want's to make a judgement call (for whatever reason) it's a 50/50 proposition. Then it's either "I TOLD YOU SO!" like a little kid, or skulling away like it was never said.

Me- I hope it's real. I like the compactness, despite what someone said about very few people getting any use out of the "slider". What poll did that come from?


______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
enjolras @ 6/6/2003 4:33:31 PM #
[quote]The second photo -- with huge screen -- looks just as real as the original, which I why I think the original is also fake.[/quote]

That is the most unbeleivable leap of logic I've ever heard. So if I take a picture of MY Tungsten, do a good photo-chop job on it.. does that make the Tungsten that I'm looking at right now fake?

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
mikecane @ 6/6/2003 5:05:29 PM #
Yours is the most incredible feat of reading miscomprehension I've come across. Of course there's a Tungsten in there *somewhere* -- I'm just not convinced it's the touted T2. And as for the rest, ahhh, you're just too dumb to get it. Someone with more patience want to explain to this idiot my point about the 2nd photo?

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
bradleyboy @ 6/6/2003 5:12:50 PM #
I seldom chime in on matters such as these, but...

mikecane, I have no problem with you or anyone else speaking with conviction about their opinions or beliefs. In fact, it's a good thing, especially in this world where people rarely seem to take a stand for anything. I have to say, however, that the way you articulate yourself often sounds less like confident self-assurance, and more like arrogant certitude. How is it that you and the other brainy types "concluded" that this is fake? What evidence do you have to support your conclusion? The way you talk, the inauthenticity of these pictures is beyond question, and your tone implies that anyone who thinks otherwise is a complete dope. And what has your track record been on detecting fakes? What is your "win/loss" ratio, so to speak? These are not rhetorical questions; I'm simply trying to ascertain your skill. Maybe you do have the smarts to justify your assertion in this case. I do agree with what others have said; when pics like these surface, there are always tons of people who say, "this is SUCH a bad PhotoShop job", etc. I don't know whether you are one of those knee-jerk types or not; I'm just wondering if you could provide more detail. Please direct me to the thread where you made your conclusions, or kindly restate them here; I'm all ears.

Peace,

bradleyboy

RE: Fake-O-Rama! (VG version!)
LiveFaith @ 6/6/2003 8:01:45 PM #
I'm the creator of the VG version of the T2. This was a joke. The photo is a cheesy fake with false reflections, choopy edits and most obviously duplicated icons.

Unfortunately, that Fall 2009' release date that I predicted may be the only reality in the post. :-(

When Palm gives us VG on small form factor ... I'm upgradin'.

Here's the pic ... enjoy!

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/tvg.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
RAMdŽd @ 6/7/2003 12:32:40 AM #
That is the most unbeleivable leap of logic I've ever heard.

Yes, that was pretty funny. And quite generous of you to call it "logic".


In fact, it's a good thing, especially in this world where people rarely seem to take a stand for anything.

I don't know that taking a stand is a big deal, in this context. There are a lot of really more deserving issues than whether or not a photo is real.


...often sounds less like confident self-assurance, and more like arrogant certitude. ...How is it that you and the other brainy types "concluded" that this is fake? ...And what has your track record been on detecting fakes? What is your "win/loss" ratio, so to speak? ... I don't know whether you are one of those knee-jerk types or not...

Ok, you've really got patience, above and beyond. You should be a diplomat. Me, I just think he's a putz, a little insecure forum bully who really needs to be "right", all the time, at any expense, whether he is or not.

Me again- I hope this is a genuine picture ala The Oslo Affair.


______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
mikecane @ 6/7/2003 12:20:14 PM #
Such brains...

Look, let me explain it so the three posterboys above can understand it:

A quick glance at the second photo is just as convincing as a quick glance of the first. If you *didn't know* that the T has a sliding bottom, and was a careless viewer (which many here are!), it'd be just as convincing as the first photo. When you look closely at the second photo, you see the duplicated icons, so obviously it's a fake. But many people do not go that far.


RE: Fake-O-Rama!
abosco @ 6/7/2003 11:03:04 PM #
Alright Mike, lets make a bet. I put my money on it's a real photo and there will be no cosmetic differences and the specs posted so far are correct.

If I'm right, you have to make a nice thread in the announcement story of the new T2 that says, "BOSCO IS SMARTER THAN I AM." If I lose because the specs are incorrect or because there is a cosmetic change, I have to make a thread that says, "MIKE CANE IS SMARTER THAN I AM."

You've got nothing to lose because... well... I'm already smarter than you. Ohhh.... ;)

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
mikecane @ 6/8/2003 12:12:44 AM #
You behave or one of the Blues will come for your head.

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
abosco @ 6/8/2003 12:36:02 AM #
So do we have a deal?

Blue knows his place, which is to never try to undermine me again. As long as he stays out of my way, he's aOKAY with me. ;)

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: Fake-O-Rama!
blueBlade @ 6/8/2003 2:12:37 PM #
don't make me call up rose, or pink even ! you dont' want to start seeing pink blobs in your head.
RE: Fake-O-Rama!
abosco @ 6/8/2003 3:22:37 PM #
Too bad you can't call up Rose. Too scared. ;)

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
RE: Fake-O-Rama!
bradleyboy @ 6/13/2003 3:19:08 PM #
hmmm....my previous post seems to have mysteriously vanished...let's try this again.

mikecane, where are you? I wondered if you might comment on the fact that the growing evidence indicates pretty clearly that the photo was, in fact, real, and that your arrogant certitude led you down the wrong path. Again, I wouldn't normally make the point to note someone else's mistake, but I will in your case due to the fact that you felt it necessary to insult those of us who held a different opinion about the picture (and once again, we're talking about the first picture, as the second was an admitted fake).



RE: Fake-O-Rama!
bradleyboy @ 6/13/2003 3:42:49 PM #
For the record, I did find my "seems to have vanished" post...it got posted in another thread somehow...the point is the same.

Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks

bleedingedge @ 6/5/2003 9:02:29 PM #
Look at all that wasted real estate. They could easily lose the slider and make it VG, VG, VG. I keep asking myself, what, for the love of God, is it going to take for someone at Palm to listen to consumers? You obviously have the silly thumboard crowd giddy and satisfied, as do Handspring and Sony. Let's get something out there with some 320x480 action. PLEASE!

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
mikecane @ 6/5/2003 9:12:31 PM #
Thank you! Whenever I raise this, I am pilloried. Let's see if it happens to you -- or if they'll just come after me now for agreeing with you. Idiotic trolls. A damned Royal daVinci is more than they deserve...

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
TooMuch @ 6/5/2003 10:21:19 PM #
I'm looking for the 17" holographic TFT widescreen with an antigravity transducer so you can float the whole thang! Yup. That's right. NO HANDS and BIG! (or is that too much to ask;)

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
rsc1000 @ 6/5/2003 11:08:14 PM #
>>Thank you! Whenever I raise this, I am pilloried.

Who is diagreeing with you? All i ever hear from 90% of the people who post on PIC (or any other PDA forum) when PalmOS devices are discussed, is 'WE ALL WANT VG NOW!!!!!'. And damn it - whats the frickin' hold up already?

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
skeezix @ 6/6/2003 8:28:44 AM #
I love the slider. Most of the time I (like most people) read, not write. So I just want it small, and the slider does that. IF you just got rid of the bottom part, so it was still 320x320 with on-screen grafitti, it'd almost work.. except I hate onscreen grafitti, since it screws up all the apps (witness T|C chaos). So for me.. I'd keep the T|T design pretty mcuh as is.. near perfect.

So *someone* like it :)

jeff

The Shadow knows!

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
mikecane @ 6/6/2003 1:44:02 PM #
I don't want on-screen G, either. I tried a Hack -- ScreenWrite -- to do that years ago and hated toggling. Just give me a pop-up G area at the bottom (or better yet, not only pops up, but one I can drag to where I want -- maybe drop down from top? Oh, how kinky can I get?!).

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
hotpaw4 @ 6/6/2003 2:42:15 PM #
All OS 5.2 units already have VG on their square displays. If you want hires+, why not go for the Garmin or Sony NX/NZ units which have a big enough battery for pushing that many pixels?
RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
mikecane @ 6/6/2003 2:48:51 PM #
What happens if you do a diagonal stroke on that display? Do you get the CmdBar popping up?

I have no use for GPS. And I have even less use for that idiotic twistytwisty Sony nonsense.

One-piece with built-in WiFi or Bust!

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
bringer @ 6/6/2003 5:51:01 PM #
To me, the size of the unit is everything. I would give up screen size for total unit size any day. I use my TT with Graffiti Anywhere, Slide-Free and a screen protector. That way my TT is always in it's smallest state. The only time I extend the slider is to use the reset button.
If they got ride of the slider altogether and made the bottom section about 1/2 to 1/3 as long as it is now (may have to make the D-pad as small as the TC) that would make the unit the smallest thing around. Without the slider, they could probably make it thinner as well. I would love that.

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
mrhockey @ 6/7/2003 12:30:04 AM #
I have to say I am more concerned about total unit size as well, but I do agree with Mike: A popup or dropdown graffiti area is the way to go, eh. I would be willing to buy a device that was a tad longer to accomodate the larger screen area. I am concerned about the overall thickness of the device which is why I find the slider a bit off putting. Just my humble, and unsolicited opinion(s).

-mrhockey

Life may have no meaning. Or even worse, it may have a meaning of which I disapprove. -- Ashleigh Brilliant


RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
bradleyboy @ 6/13/2003 9:46:03 AM #
Hmmmm...Where are you, mikecane, now that more facts are coming in? It would seem that you were wrong to brand the pic as fake (again, we are talking about the first picture, as the second was publicly stated as fake).

That's the problem with taking a stance of arrogant certitude. It makes you look more foolish when you turn out to be wrong. But since you never made a convicing arguement to defend your point of view in the first place, this all should not come as a big surprise.

Cheers!

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
Altema @ 6/13/2003 2:57:28 PM #
"I am concerned about the overall thickness of the device which is why I find the slider a bit off putting. Just my humble, and unsolicited opinion(s)."

It's actually thinner than an M515 with the flip cover, AND smaller in every other dimension, but looks thick due to being shorter. I was concerned also, having been through the M500, 505, and 515. But, it has been a very comfortable form factor to live with. The only things I would change are already in the T|T2, with the exception of keeping the slider and adding VG for movies/spreadsheets.

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
LiveFaith @ 6/13/2003 3:27:11 PM #
Whattaya mean NO VG ... here's a pic of my T2 that I just bought from the NewYorkTimes.com shopping section.

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/tvg.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
Wollombi @ 6/15/2003 9:40:05 PM #
>"Thank you! Whenever I raise this, I am pilloried. Let's see if it happens to you -- or if they'll just come after me now for agreeing with you. Idiotic trolls. A damned Royal daVinci is more than they deserve..."<

Sheesh Mike, take a valium or something! LOL =)


>"That's the problem with taking a stance of arrogant certitude. It makes you look more foolish when you turn out to be wrong. But since you never made a convicing arguement to defend your point of view in the first place, this all should not come as a big surprise."<

Bradleyboy, the only person looking arrogant and foolish right now is you. IMO, Mike is pretty smart to ignore your petty baiting. I see you haven't been here that much, so we'll just continue to ignore you until you learn some manners. Stop being obnoxious.

>"It's actually thinner than an M515 with the flip cover, AND smaller in every other dimension, but looks thick due to being shorter."<

You've got to be kidding! Ha. I have both in front of me right now and the T|T isn't even coming close to being able to be called thinner than the M515, even with it's little rail-mounted flip cover. Hmm...maybe I'm not drunk enough yet...... =)


_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
Altema @ 6/15/2003 11:30:23 PM #
"You've got to be kidding! Ha. I have both in front of me right now and the T|T isn't even coming close to being able to be called thinner than the M515, even with it's little rail-mounted flip cover. Hmm...maybe I'm not drunk enough yet...... =)"

Maybe you drank too much ;)

I've got an M505, M515, and T|T right here. Hmm, the one with the new flip cover is slightly thicker, the M515 (my old one) with the worn out and squashed flip cover is slightly thinner. OK, you win. I stand corrected.

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
bradleyboy @ 6/16/2003 8:29:24 AM #
"Bradleyboy, the only person looking arrogant and foolish right now is you. IMO, Mike is pretty smart to ignore your petty baiting. I see you haven't been here that much, so we'll just continue to ignore you until you learn some manners. Stop being obnoxious."

Sean,

Regarding my "petty baiting", I am simply responding to Mike's tendency to belittle people here who don't share his opinions. Words such as "stupid" and "idiot", and phrases such as "such brains" (sarcasm) were used toward me and some others who believe the photo is accurate. If you look at the thread entitled, "Fake-O-Rama", you'll see what I'm referring to. So no, Sean, it's not baiting. It's responding to someone who tends to be a bully and an insulting, and yes, arrogant, person. Again, I can only point to the forums themselves as my supporting argument. Of course, you and anyone else can disagree. Unlike Mike, I won't rip on people who don't share my view.

Peace,

bradleyboy

RE: Fake or not, slider sucks, no VG sucks
bradleyboy @ 6/16/2003 8:52:30 AM #
PS to you, Sean. According to your profile and mine, I've "been here" plenty long. In fact, nearly a year longer than you have. And my hunch is that I've seen more birthdays than you have, too. But what's the point? Let's just focus on talking about PDA's and our opinions about them. Yes, I did go out of my way to address Mike's manner of expressing himself, as well as asking him to back up his arguments with something more persuasive than "we concluded the picture was fake." All I know is that Mike had plenty to say when he was belittling people who didn't share his view, and he's silent here now. I have no personal grudge with you, or with Mike. I just think he could make this a friendlier, more constructive place to share our interest in PDA's if he didn't come down so hard on those of us who disagree with him. That's all.

Peace,

bradleyboy

T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...

Gekko @ 6/5/2003 9:52:39 PM #
1. Transflective display.
2. 64MB or more RAM.
3. Intel XScale PXA255 Processor.



RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
infobhan @ 6/5/2003 10:05:49 PM #
What about if there were a keyboard hidden behind the slider?

RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
gfunkmagic @ 6/5/2003 10:16:03 PM #
I would say this would be a significant upgrade if it has:


1)Transflective display (320x480 not realistic IMO)
2)more ram (32MB good, 64MB unlikely b/c will undercut T|C)
3)Bigger battery (1100mAh would be nice?)
4)better sound volume out of headphone jack (very important)
5)Fix for all bugs (digitizer, sound etc)


I think the previous is pretty realistic IMO. The only blockbuster would be if they included a 320x480 screen, but like I said, it's highly unlikely IMO...

----------------------------------------
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."

-Pablo Picasso.

RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
latortilla @ 6/5/2003 11:25:08 PM #
IMHO, even with those improvements, this will still only be an updated version of a very ho-hum handheld, especially when PalmSource gets the drivers up and running for the Bluetooth SD card (negating the advantage of built-in Bluetooth).
RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
abosco @ 6/5/2003 11:30:58 PM #
Sorry, but the screen definitely ends before the slider. Take a closer look at the bottom of the screen. I think it would be awesome if 320x320 were available when closed and 320x480 were available when open. That would be a hell of an idea, then.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
cconrad @ 6/6/2003 12:10:33 AM #
re. "(32MB good, 64MB unlikely b/c will undercut T|C)"

While you may be right, I would love the features of the T|C in the T|T size. One of the things I liked least about the T|T is that it's so big (see my review at http://www.epinions.com/content_100578266756). But I'm never owned anything but a Palm Vx and a Palm m500 for very long, so maybe my size expectations are unrealistic. Still, it's been a long time in IT years (like dog years?), so why can't I have the power of a T|C in a Palm m500 size?

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if 64MB is even enough, if PalmSource is serious about creating a beefy browser that can display most of the web sites out there, doesn't it take a lot of memory to render them quickly? Also, if OS 6 is as revolutionary as we're hoping (as big a change as OS X was for Apple, blah, blah), it might need more RAM generally. And the current crop of PSG OS 5 devices had better be flash upgradeable to OS 6...

Oh, and I'd really appreciate Wi-Fi in it this time instead of just Bluetooth.

One problem, if you read my T|C review, you'll probably get the impression that there are too many things I like about both the T|T and the T|C to reconcile them together into one device. (E.g. I like the T|T's size, looks, and real metal case, along with the built-in mic and voice-memo button on the left, but I like the T|C's wallet connection channel on the left. I like the T|T's stereo sound jack, but the T|C's potential for telephony via the mono headset jack. I like the T|T's Bluetooth, but the T|C's Wi-Fi. I like the T|T's big D-Pad, but I think I'm starting to like the T|C's thumboard. etc.)

So maybe my ideal device isn't out there yet, or it is, but spread across several devices. But I'd really like to see the T|T2 have a 400 MHz processor, 64 MB of RAM, and Wi-Fi, and then I'd buy for sure.

Chad

RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
kev @ 6/6/2003 5:11:01 AM #
i'd love the wifi stuff too, but how do you tackle the battery problem? wifi is the SUV of PDAs - the W and C are so fat because of the thor-sized battery they need to get any practical use of the energy-hungry technologies they use.

RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
GearHead @ 6/6/2003 7:33:06 AM #
Make that processor 400mHz I am on the same boat with you. Also no matter what I still think this is a major Photoshop job. Why call this Tungsten T2, why not call it new Tungsten T?

Free 802.11 No More Wires!!!
Support your local WAN!
RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
hkklife @ 6/6/2003 9:47:00 AM #
To be honest, even if Palm Source gets the BT drivers working properly and in the public's collective hands, I doubt that most people are going to be happy with their brand-spankin' new T|C with an unsightly, awkward BT card protruding from the expansion slot. What Palm/Toshiba/Panasonic need to do is get their act together and release a "normal" form factor BT card with BT. Having a bit of memory on the card as well would be icing on the cake but that's asking too much. The smaller BT card was shown sometime last year--I really did expect it to be available sometime in early '03 to be quite honest. We've already been disappointed by Sandisk's wi-fi card delays, so this would be a nice boost for the BT camp.

RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
naturefreak85 @ 6/7/2003 1:35:45 PM #
QUOTE GEARHEAD

Make that processor 400mHz I am on the same boat with you. Also no matter what I still think this is a major Photoshop job. Why call this Tungsten T2, why not call it new Tungsten T?

END QUOTE

Why not call it the "New Tungsten T?" well if they continue to sell the old Tungsten T afterwards until stock is out, then it would be hard to distinguish also the website, people wont know the difference and when someone has it it is like who wants to say I HAVE THE NEW TUNGSTEN T?
they would want to sound better saying I HAVE THE TUNGSTEN T2! USE LOGIC FOR GODS SAKE THINK BEFORE WRITING

RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
WileyCoyote @ 6/7/2003 1:36:48 PM #
I think the picture is genuine. It cracks me up when EVERY time there is a leak of a picture the same group of psuedo experts claim it is photoshopped. Artifacts in the picture are not evidence of forgery. Lots of jpegs have artifacts. I don't even recall a real time a photoshopped image was sent out as a hoax. Jokes or wishes yes but not an attempt to hoax. The fact that the protective screen tab is even visible shows that this is a production unit that is being made now and will be released in a few weeks.
The specs sound right and probably there will be no change in the processor although I certainly would like to see a lower power version.
I may just buy one- it depends on the price point..
I know that a lot of people say it should have WIFI in it but I am thinking that WIFI is still too power hungry and bluetooth is just fine. What is really needed is a WIFI to bluetoooth access point device that can be used with this. A portable WIFI access device with it's separate battery (car rechargeable) and a larger antenna (maybe even directional)that can be positioned for the best reception that then connects via bluetooth to the PDA would be extremely cool and usefull IMHO Instead of putting down every PDA that doesn't have WIFI we should be demanding a device like I described.



RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
mikecane @ 6/8/2003 12:14:04 AM #
>>USE LOGIC FOR GODS SAKE THINK BEFORE WRITING

-- my god! Do you want there to be NO comments?!

RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
naturefreak85 @ 6/8/2003 10:57:14 PM #
>>
>>USE LOGIC FOR GODS SAKE THINK BEFORE WRITING

-- my god! Do you want there to be NO comments?!

well i never once said i wanted no comments, because i scour the board and find people who actually use logic, people who realize that a unit cant be what they want because it will undermine others, people who realize that a company wants to make money and will keep two wireless technologies separate for now. it cracks me up how people just look at a picture and specs and because it isnt what they want they claim it is a fake, because they cant understand some things they claim it is a fake, i personally feel that it is genuine, and try to use logic in everything

RE: T2 will be noteworthy ONLY if it has...
radleyp @ 6/10/2003 11:17:48 AM #
That's a pretty confused statement. Did you reason out to that conclusion, or did you "feel" (to use your word) that this model must be genuine. "Logic" uses theses within parameters, and presumably everyone using it should wind up in the same place. I think you mean "common sense". radleyp

Say hello to then new boss, same as the old boss!

Louis Berk @ 6/6/2003 1:27:44 AM #
Well if it is not a fake this is one Palm product introduction where I will NOT be crying in my beer as a happy owner of a Tungsten T!

Good of them to name it after one of my favourite movies, though!

:-)

Louis

great!

orol @ 6/6/2003 9:08:10 AM #
I hope this is true! if th ecase it would be great pda
but what I really hope it'll have an xscale px 255cpu (even at 200) 32 mb ram (it's fine with me)
what is a must application-wise => palm web browser 2, versamail 2.5

RE: great!
orol @ 6/6/2003 9:12:12 AM #
p.s. I only hope the new tungsten T will hit the shop earlier then it's preceedor ..
do you remember the time between the pics of oslo leaked and the tungsten T was actually on the market ?

RE: great!
Sleuth255 @ 6/6/2003 10:32:09 AM #
WebBrowser 2 (netfront) and versamail 2.5 are a given. You can count on that. The folks at Novarra have indicated that WebPro will be available with OS 6 so we may see it on this device too. That would be nice: having two browser choices for this device.

Will it include Kinoma like the Zire and/or Docs2Go? Be nice if they bundled SplashPhoto too...

My question: what's gonna be the best way to upgrade software from my TT. I sure don't want to have to hotsync the rollup patch onto the new device.

RE: great!
Altema @ 6/6/2003 11:40:52 PM #
"My question: what's gonna be the best way to upgrade software from my TT. I sure don't want to have to hotsync the rollup patch onto the new device."

If you have a Windows machine, use Windows Explorer and go to C:\program files\palm\your user name\backup, or where ever your palm backup folder is located on your desktop, then move the files you do not want loaded to a temporary folder. You should be able to do similar on a Mac.


RE: great!
Altema @ 6/7/2003 10:49:43 AM #
"p.s. I only hope the new tungsten T will hit the shop earlier then it's preceedor ..
do you remember the time between the pics of oslo leaked and the tungsten T was actually on the market ?"

I hope it makes it to market soon as well. There is a significant difference between this leak and the leaked Oslo pics: The Oslo pic was of a pre-production prototype or test unit, while the T|T2 pic is of what looks like an actual production device. Palm normally has the assembly lines running in advance of their official announcement, in order to fill up the distribution pipeline (get the units to the stores in time).

Graffiti

robrecht @ 6/6/2003 9:41:14 AM #
Assuming this is real, I may get it (after comparing it the iQue, of course), but I don't think I want Graffiti 2.

I know there are a lot of graffiti enhancement programs out there. What is the best one for allowing me to use old graffiti in the dedicated graffiti area?

What are some of the other features with such a graffiti enhancement program, that may be valuable, eg, writing on main screen, customizing graffiti strokes, viewing graffiti trails on the screen, ...

Thanks, robrecht

RE: Graffiti
Sleuth255 @ 6/6/2003 10:36:13 AM #
the general consesus is to use tealscript to change the altered characters back to their Graffiti 1 counterparts.

RE: Graffiti
robrecht @ 6/6/2003 10:56:34 AM #
Thanks, Sleuth
iQue
mikecane @ 6/6/2003 1:47:58 PM #
Where is that thing?! Any release date? Anyone seen it anywhere?!

RE: Graffiti
Sleuth255 @ 6/6/2003 3:16:31 PM #
What? Tealscript?

here: http://www.tealpoint.com

It's available today. Enjoy!

RE: Graffiti
robrecht @ 6/6/2003 4:05:18 PM #
No, the iQue.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Graffiti
mikecane @ 6/6/2003 5:09:39 PM #
Shall we start putting pictures of it on milk cartons? (For the context-impaired: iQue, not TealScript.)

RE: Graffiti
Sleuth255 @ 6/6/2003 5:45:10 PM #
Sorry context-boy, but you changed titles in the RE: GRaffiti comments. You should start a new comment if you want answers in that content's context.

RE: Graffiti
mikecane @ 6/7/2003 12:32:51 PM #
You are probably right. Bad me.

Who Will Buy this Machine?

flevy @ 6/6/2003 11:30:40 AM #
Is it reasonable to assume that most people who would pay this much for a Palm device at this price point already have one? If the assumption is reasonable, a new model gets strong sales by encouraging current users to updgrade.

What is it in this model that can encourage significant upgrading?

RE: Who Will Buy this Machine?
Sleuth255 @ 6/6/2003 11:46:50 AM #
Transflective, double the memory, OS5.2. I'll update for those reasons alone. I'm down to 2.5 megs of available RAM these days. Perhaps an enhanced bluetooth stack will be available too; one that would support the headset and advanced audio profiles. That way I could make my TT2 a handsfree speakerphone and also hook up a pair of wireless stereo headphones for MP3 enjoyment.

I don't have a problem with the speed of my TT, but an XScale processor would certainly extend the battery life.

RE: Who Will Buy this Machine?
yebo @ 6/6/2003 7:42:46 PM #
I will!!!

I bought my wife has a TT in Feb and she reckons it is fantastic. (She likes it more than she likes me - can you file for divorce on technological grounds? :)

However, I recently tried to purchase one for my own use. After trying 4 units with various problems I have decided to wait until Palm offer a better screen. If they throw in more memory then that's a bonus as I'm a slightly more demanding user than my wife she currently has 7MB free memory while I ran out on the first day!

The TT form factor is perfect, especially as there are already solutions to minimise the use of the slider.



RE: Who Will Buy this Machine?
Altema @ 6/6/2003 11:47:40 PM #
I'll buy one too. I have the current edition and my paticular device has two cosmetic defects (slight flaw in upper front case stamping, tilted Palm logo), but the screen is very nice and the performance has been flawless. Speed? Don't need anymore for myself... 98% of functions are instant. Still, if more speed is offered with improved battery life, I'll be among the first to accept it! The form factor is nice, different from the v, but still great in it's own unique way. I've had the M500, M505, and M515, and loved the thinness, but the T|T is certainly more comfortable to hold and use. Did you know the M515 with the just the flip cover is thicker than the T|T? The T|T looks fat because it is so vertically short. Plus, I can put it in my shirt pocket and button the pocket, which is something I could not do with the V/M5xx.

Then there's the buttons, IMHO the best I've ever used on any device.

What I WOULD change is more memory and larger ROM, plus better battery life. I can squeeze 7 hours, but to enjoy all the features of this device, 5-6 hours is more realistic (10-12 days for you normal folk). I could get up to 19 hours on my 515 if I really skimped, but there is a list of things the T|T can do that the 515 could not. Just to put even the speed difference in perspective, I loaded a large ebook in WordSmith on both devices, made the same edit change, then had both devices compress the ebook on the handheld. The M515 took 18 minutes to compress the entire book... the T|T took 20 seconds.

VG issues

Manicorp @ 6/6/2003 11:14:01 AM #
I own Clie NR70... and I love it. Not because it is sony, but because of its bigger screen. Many people complain about no killer apps for VG, but I show off my daughters Quick time video and splash photo in landscape mode and I always receive satisfying "Oooo" and "Ahaaa."
I think the Palm and Sony is perfectly aware of people wanting tablet mode with VG but they don't want to build one because of these reason.
1. Palm is invested in Graffiti 2 and 320x320 screen. They are flurting with the idea of getting rid of graffiti area altogether. They wont do it until they HAVE to.
2. Sony is invested in the NR/NX/NZ series of flip palms. To give VG in cheaper models is the undermine the top models. They will not do it.

So the conclusion is that other company will have to take the leap of faith and build one and see how well they will sell. Don't misunderstand me, I will flop $400-500 for light, long battery life, VG, dual SD slots or SD&CF, tablet palm in Zire 71 style,MP3 & light camera. However, I dont' think it will come from Sony or Palm anytime soon. My guess is that VG will come from SamSung or one of the chinese companies who are hungrier to sell... Exception is Garmin...

Oh well... Long live palm... OS! ;)

Mani

RE: VG issues
Davy Fields @ 6/6/2003 6:14:33 PM #
The thing is, you need a Palm or a Sony to introduce it.... see companies like Handera as an example... if the device they produce doesn't conform to a wide, wide user base, nobody's going to touch it... I mean, Sony has sold hundreds of thousands of 320x480 units, but how many programs are really out there still?

-Davy Fields
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palm_OS_5/
RE: VG issues
Wollombi @ 6/15/2003 9:58:35 PM #
Seems true, but Sony had Handera to copy! =)

Seriously, if Handera would even have released an ARM-based unit running OS5 with a color screen (and upped the resolution, hopefully), I would easily have bought it, even if it was the same old PalmIII form factor. The 330 was downright revolutionary as a PDA, and still has more features than most "newer" PalmOS PDAs, especially in power options. The dual slots and VG still rock, but color tempted me away, althought I still have it on my desk waiting for a long hiking trip or some other event that would keep me away from a charger for a long period of time.

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

Total Fake - Heres why.

xelnaga8080 @ 6/6/2003 12:40:33 PM #
If you will notice, a certain app is missing. This app
is present on both the Zire 71 and Tungsten C. It is
the palm photos app. This leads me to believe that
this handheld is running OS 5 and is really the original
tungsten T, since any new handheld from palm would
include this app.

"Life is a Cookie"
RE: Total Fake - Heres why.
jbeedham @ 6/6/2003 7:29:59 PM #
They would not need to put it on there. The T does nto have a camera.

-------------------------------------------------------
currently using Palm m125 and waiting for Garmin iQue.
RE: Total Fake - Heres why.
xelnaga8080 @ 7/23/2003 8:40:16 AM #
Ok, with the release of the the TT2, I am here to admit my being totally and 100% wrong. I made guess, but didn't count on them having Palm Photos not install in ROM, but on a bonus CD. Oh, well. No more 2 cents from me.

"Life is a Cookie"

Total Fake - Heres why.

xelnaga8080 @ 6/6/2003 12:40:33 PM #
If you will notice, a certain app is missing. This app
is present on both the Zire 71 and Tungsten C. It is
the palm photos app. This leads me to believe that
this handheld is running OS 5 and is really the original
tungsten T, since any new handheld from palm would
include this app.

"Life is a Cookie"
I dunno...
Quik_Fix @ 6/6/2003 2:30:45 PM #
Isn't the Photo app included on the disk for the user to put on at their discretion? I don't think it comes on there; I could be wrong. However, they might have decided to stop including it on this model. It wouldn't be the first time they changed the bundle for a new Palm.
RE: Total Fake - Heres why.
xelnaga8080 @ 6/7/2003 1:14:09 PM #
Your points are valid, but palm photos have been integrated into the palm desktop in its latest incarnation, like one of the pims or expense manager. The expense manager has been included on all the high end palms for quite a while, and the way this is included, I think it was designed to get away from 3rd party apps. Besides it is substantialy better than what has been included with the previous palms in the way of speed. I believe Palm or Palmsource has been seeking a to provide there own Photo program that would provide better speed and integration than what has been provided up to this point, and this seems to be it. Incedentily (forgive my spelling) the expense manager does not have to be installed on a palm.

"Life is a Cookie"

Screen edification?

RAMdŽd @ 6/6/2003 2:46:49 PM #
My pricipal PDA is a Palm V, but I occasionally use an iPAQ 3765 that I got as a gift.

Can somebody tell me what category screen the iPAQ uses? The thing I hate is that outdoors, it's almost useless. I have to turn it almost perpendicular to my line of vision to read the screen in direct sunlight.

Inside my car, on a bright day with no direct sunlight, I have to turn on the backlight or it's no joy.

Obviously these are not problems I have with my V. What kind of color screen will give me the same performance as the monochrome of my V?

The T|T uses what kind of screen compared the Z/71 (isn't that a Chevy truck?)? The Z's screen seems to have a bit more contrast as well, even when the brightness is dialed down to match the T|T.

Thanks for any information.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: Screen edification?
mikecane @ 6/7/2003 12:38:42 PM #
http://www.brighthand.com/article/ScreenTechnology

T2 Launch Date

acquiessense @ 6/7/2003 11:45:05 AM #
Well i'm planning to purchase a T|T at the end of this month. So that means that the T|T2 will be launched at some point between 1 - 4 weeks after this date.

Also i've had a quick look around my local vendors (including PC World that had a Zire 71 in stock on the day it was launched - i saw it - was completley shocked, then pulled my freshly synced palm out of my pocket, and proceeded to tell the sales advisor exactly what spec the new machine was - thanks PIC) and they have just one T|T in the cabinet, and the retailer next door (same parent company) has got no T|T's whatsoever.


the TT2 is what the original Tungsten T should have been

awdr @ 6/8/2003 11:07:04 AM #
It seems that the Tungsten T was the testdummy for the new one!

most useful improvements would be:
enhancend bluetooth for file sharing, headsets, printing

the killer thing would be if would be able to use your tungsten connected with a bluetooth mobile phone to use it as a mobile phone itself!

the same batteries like in the Tungsten C

the Zire 71 screen



Re phone handset

Linus @ 6/9/2003 2:51:35 AM #
This has nothing to do with the T2 but is there any software that makes a tungsten into a bluetooth handset to use with a bluetooth mobile phone. The Tungsten has a mic and a speaker so it should be able to be a phone handset.

In Search of the mythic T2?

Greg @ 6/10/2003 6:19:21 AM #
I purchased the Palm T|W back when it made it’s debut, I liked the unit it seemed solid and the internet was much faster then my i705 was. But reality struck and it was $549.00 and I negotiated it down to $399 with rebates and incentives but it was still too much money for what I was getting in my opinion so I promptly returned it.

While speaking with a AT&T rep I mentioned that I was disappointed in the unit she told me to hang tight that there was a new unit in the works… I asked her for details as any f us would and she told me that there was a new version of the Palm t|t coming out that was slated to work on the AT&T network. She said that it looked identical to the original but it was going to have a faster CPU run Palm OS 5 and incorporate Bluetooth and the GPRS service the AT&T uses with the T|W.

It seemed odd at the time but I have remained interested, maybe she unknowingly was talking about the elusive T2?

I currently use the Kyocera 7135 and think it is a great convergence devices OS 5 would have been nice but for the most part OS 5 is just a better looking interface but nothing breath taking at least not yet…

History lends credence to this rumour

Julian @ 6/10/2003 7:54:35 AM #
This particular report may or may not be true but a look at Palm's history certainly makes me think that a T2 should come out at some point. Palm release the V, aftermarket upgraders offer 8MB RAM upgrade and then Palm release the Vx, same case but upgraded electronics. Palm release the m505 and then sometime afterwards release the m515, same case but upgraded electronics. Palm release the Tungsten T and then release the Tungsten C that has interesting new electronics like 32MB RAM, better screen, different processor. If history repeats itself then we should expect Palm to do a technology refresh of the electronics but use the TT case.

I'm not a Palm insider but I would expect that the purchasing dept in Palm really wants a TT2. Just on the CPU, which is probably a big part of their bill of materials, they can go to Intel and say "how much of a better deal will you give us if we switch the TT across to Intel procs?". Higher volume means better discounts.

The one thing that I most hope for, along with some other posters here, is better battery life. The TC has a much more powerful battery than the TT, does anyone know if this is just due to more internal volume for the battery or is it newer technology giving better performance? If the former then I guess we can't hope for much in the way of extra battery life, if the latter then lets hope that this finds its way to TT2 as well.

RE: History lends credence to this rumour
Altema @ 6/10/2003 8:24:09 PM #
"The one thing that I most hope for, along with some other posters here, is better battery life. The TC has a much more powerful battery than the TT, does anyone know if this is just due to more internal volume for the battery or is it newer technology giving better performance?"

Lack of internal volume is the culprit. I've seen one of these guys apart, and the 900Mh battery is a tight fit at the bottom/back of the inside case. The T|T is a much more compact device than the T|C.

A possibility with the T|T2 is an internal design change to allow for a larger battery. The new screen may be thinner, since it does not need to be recessed deeply for frontlighting like the reflective screen of the original T|T. Another area where a couple millimeters could be gained, is the bottom of the case which is hidden inside the slider. The current device screws together here in clamshell fashion... if they made the two halves of the case interlock with a tab here, and kept the two screws at the top of the case, we might get enough extra space to fit the next size battery.

This, of course, does not rule out any advances in battery/cpu technology which would have a similar effect.

RE: History lends credence to this rumour
WileyCoyote @ 6/12/2003 8:40:16 AM #
Latest info is that the T2 probably useses one of the new OMAP processors which were announced here several months ago. They have much improved battery energy conservation. The new OMAPs have a sleep mode that uses one tenth the power of the current ones. New pictures on the discussions boards pretty well prove that this is real.

RE: History lends credence to this rumour
WileyCoyote @ 6/12/2003 12:00:02 PM #
Follow up. Here is the article from PIC on the new OMAP cpu series
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4944
Note that the new 1611 has builtin io for WIFI-G
and the 1612 has 32mb of sdram stacked.
The question I want to know is which chip did they use?
If the 1611 that would make it a LOT easier to build a SDIO WIFI card for the Tungsten.
If they used the 1612 that is going to be one fast Tungsten and with the memory on the chip may allow a smaller board which would in turn allow a bigger battery.
Which ever it is the T2 is going to be SWEET!
It should be out soon if all the leaks and the lack of inventory are any indication

May be coming soon...anyone hearing anything?

palmgator @ 6/11/2003 5:22:48 PM #
I went to circuit city today and I could have picked up a TT for less than $250 and they only had three in stock. I asked the clerk and they said they were not sure if they were getting more in>>>>HMMMMMM?

Training sales and real estate professionals on effective palm use!

it's no fake - check out this site

xulofex0 @ 6/13/2003 8:30:19 AM #
pictures at http://www.pumb.org/viewtopic.php?t=27584

More info. on TT2:
Color: Silver
CPU: 200-250MHz
RAM: 32MB RAM w/ 29.7MB usable
OS: PalmOS5.2
Screen: Transflective TFT (Same as Zire71, NO VG)
(Other spec. are exactly the same as TT)


RE: it's no fake - check out this site
Bioco @ 6/15/2003 2:01:34 AM #
You beaten me to it. Anyway I looked and the pictures and there's no way those ugly pics are made in photoshop (nobody can screw up that bad). SO the question is for all of you that have the Tungsten T: what has changed on the back? What is that New Logo? Is that the logo for Bluetooth, WiFi?

Come on keep on posting, this mistery is greater than the piramids.

http://www.pumb.org/viewtopic.php?t=27584&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

RE: it's no fake - check out this site
Wollombi @ 6/15/2003 10:10:15 PM #
It's a BlueTooth logo.

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

RE: it's no fake - check out this site
JeffRichardson @ 6/16/2003 11:46:11 AM #
Can anyone read the posts on the pumb.org cite? If so, please summarize them here in English. Thanks.
RE: it's no fake - check out this site
Bioco @ 6/16/2003 10:32:14 PM #
So, one has the logo and the other one not. The new one doesn't have Bluetooth or is it the other way?

Is there a logo for WIFI in Tungsten C?

RE: it's no fake - check out this site
naturefreak85 @ 7/16/2003 5:04:17 PM #
is it just me or do the color's of the t2 seem washed out.........that along with the fact that it seems blurry deters me from wanting to get it

RE: it's no fake - check out this site
naturefreak85 @ 7/16/2003 5:07:27 PM #
forget it i was wrong the normal t has the washed out colors

It's Real

KRamsauer @ 7/18/2003 10:41:42 PM #
I saw one at Fry's today. $399.

RE: It's Real
Jaguar45 @ 7/19/2003 2:01:07 PM #
I talked to a guy who works for Palm today. He's not a salesman, he...keeps tabs on stores, looks at what's selling and what the stores are offering, stuff like that.

Anyway, he couldn't tell me much (non-disclosure agreements) but the T|T2 will have a faster processor, upgraded internam memory, and BOTH WiFi and Bluetooth. Same size as the T|T. Retail, according to him, will be $350. I was very surprised that it would pack all of those features into such a small package for that price, but he answered yes each of the three times I confirmed it with him.

No official release date, but "soon" is what he was saying.

T|2 available for pre order

antikryst @ 7/21/2003 1:40:34 AM #
according to www.datavis.com tungsten t|2 is available for pre order. im guessing srp would be $399 because datavis is selling it for $349. (they sell stuff cheaper than srp)


from the site:
-------------------------------------------------------

Features:
* Compact and powerful - A fast ARM processor, the latest Palm OS, v5.2.1, and 32MB of memory are all delivered on a handheld that's one of Palm's most compact
* Outstanding color - A new easy-to-read, high resolution, 320x320 transflective color screen crisply displays presentations, video clips and graphics with vibrant, ultra-sharp clarity.
* Take your office with you - Create and edit Word, Excel and PowerPoint compatible files. Synchronize with Outlook's calendar, contacts, tasks and notes right out of the box.
* Built-in Bluetooth - Wirelessly access email, dial phone numbers, send text messages and connect to the Internet using a compatible mobile phone, share files, photos and more with other compatible Bluetooth devices.

Specifications:
Memory: 32MB
Screen: 16-bit, 320x320 transflective TFT color display supports more than 65,000 colors
Size and Weight: Height: 4"(4.8" open) x 3" x 0.6"; 5.6 oz
Processor: Texas Instruments OMAP1510 (enhanced ARM-based) processor
Operating System: Palm OS 5.2.1
Voice Memo Button: Capture and organize thoughts with a single
touch of a button. Files are automatically transferred to your computer,
where you can store, share and email them
5-way Navigator: Access information with just one hand
Battery: Rechargeable Lithium Ion/Polymer
Stereo Headphone Jack: Accepts 3.5mm stereo headphone plug
Palm Expansion slot: Accepts SD, MultiMediaCard, and SDIO cards
and peripherals.
Notification: Vibration, Audio, LED notification

Shipping end of July/03
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.datavis.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=441575&prmenbr=2000


so there ya go! no rumor after all. so next question is....T3???











Language

e_tellurian @ 10/5/2006 1:09:44 PM #
With all the power of creativity i am sure we can develop software that will allow none core language people, while learning a new language, the choice to efficiently speak into their PDA with their voice and have their voice translated into the language needed at the time of interaction.

The core we-com crew come from similar need economies, our language too is unique.

E-T

e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

RE: Language
naio21 @ 10/5/2006 1:39:31 PM #
W T F? Direct from the Time Tunnel? ;-O

Ivan
RE: Language
e_tellurian @ 10/6/2006 6:05:47 AM #
:-(lol)

These are not new thoughts just now may be the time to dust off some old thoughts, enhance with new technology and offer applications that offer more for PDA/smartphones to do.

Phones communicate by voice and wallets communicate with subtlety and grace. Nothing worse than a wealthy loud mouth or poor quite person. With just the right tone we can enhance both, the wealthy and the poor while the middle shares in the wealth of knowledge shared with all from one thought to a tangible trade offer.

E-T

e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

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