Comments on: Sony Releases the NX80V and NX73V

My T615C is more than a year old and, frankly speaking, I'm getting tired of waiting for the 320x480 tablet PDA...

I've never liked this clamshell design but I have to be honest and say that these two PDA's are very nice... the backlit thumboard is a cool touch (sort of copied from Apples recent iPod and Powerbooks) if I didn't know that the Helix is coming I think I'd be preordering the NX73.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this two updates will get what it takes to boost Clie sales... guess time will tell us.

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Who? me. When? Now!

I agree with you, a3. I hate the clam shell. I'd love to see a 480x320 tablet PDA. No stupid camera. No stupid keyboard. Just a virt-G area. Get the size down somewhere close to that of my 760, if not smaller. And while they're at it, why not throw in a faster CPU with more memory? I just saw the T|C yesterday and while I hate the keyboard, the screen was nice and boy was it speedy and 64M of RAM.... Mmmmm... RAM....

Plus, no built-in WiFi or BT? Bah! I really want to upgrade my PDA, but nobody's gotten it right yet.

-sig

I agree with Sig. NO ONE, Not Palm nor Sony, has come out with a 760 killer. Small V-graffiti with blue tooth. First one out wins. I'll buy 2.

I totally agree with a3 and sigsegv.

I WANT 320x480 with VG and NO GIMMICKS like cameras, keyboards, etc.
But with Bluetooth and eventually also WiFi.

And I want it NOW.

Com'on. It can't be that difficult.

presently using m105 - waiting for Garmin iQue3600 with Bluetooth

I still have a lust for the n760c(n710, even, with a hack), but they abandoned it for the bulk. If they could just make it OS5 with a Zire71 camera, it'd be fine. I got a Zire71 because I couldn't wait. I can see the Zire71 going places, but Sony still can't find a groove.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

Allegedly, the Helix will have 128Mb RAM.

Regarding Verteron's comment, I have to agree that no one seems to be looking at our multiple requests for a tablet 320x480 palm. However that might not be true since Tapwave's Helix and Garmin's Ique (not shure about the latter) disclosed such specs initially. Additionally, Palm OS6 seems to have native support for VG so in one year that tablet shape may become standard (wishful thinking? maybe... maybe not)

Anyway, one thing's for sure: Palm has caught up with Sony's line up. As a matter of fact, to see guys saying so and even some that say that Palm has outgrown Sony is a mere indication that Palm's lineup has evolved incredibly... IMHO for the first time in the last couple of years I have a Palm SG PDA (Zire 71) in my list of possible buys.
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Never, never, never give up!

I just don't get it. Why can't Sony produce a T615 size unit with virtual graffiti and the new transflective typr of screen - why do we have to keep getting BIGGER in form factor? Go the other direction for heaven's sake

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Do you mean "clie-ches"?

As said above:

No one seems to be looking at our multiple requests for a tablet 320x480 palm. However that might not be true since Tapwave's Helix and Garmin's Ique (not shure about the latter) disclosed such specs initially for Palm OS5

Additionally, Palm OS6 seems to have native support for VG so in one year that 320x480 tablet shape with VG may become standard (wishful thinking? maybe... maybe not).

One thing is for sure if we don't find an answer for not having a 320x480 tablet, lets just watch accross the river: PPC2002 has 240x320 and PPC2003 will have 240x320 and on top of all no easy landscape mode (you have to reset it)... aint't it good to know that we're in the right side (even if you have a 320x320)?
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Already looking forward to an Apple PDA...

The Palm V was one of the hottest selling Palms ever, because it was small, thin, and had a better screen (at the time) than any other. If you want a killer PDA that will sweep the field with many users, focus on that form factor, add transflective 240x320 screen with virtual graffiti, SDIO (bluetooth would be great), and put on an integrated (but removable) flip cover like the Treo 90. This thing would clean up in the "organizer" crowd.

Patience, Grasshopper. You will soon have that which you seek.

If you asked me I agree with abosco. Its rediculous to bring almost exact version of the NX70 and not include bluetooth and more memory. I am talking about at the very least 64 RAM and fully available, not this crap 32RAM and 16 available for use!! That is what I have with the NX60 (use jackflash for that extra 4mb they left in rom), they did not even upgrade the speed! What does sony think we are stupid? and for the price?

Very minor updates, not worth the price.

What a disapointment. Any way, if we look at Sony's past history they usually better the second generation of devices and totally trash the 3rd!!!

I am not buying into an new device now. Tough love!! I am almost ready to switch back to Palm or a next generation of the NZ90. Lets see what they come up with.

ALso, let me make an additional comment that there's a pretty nice entertainment software bundle with this unit (list is on sonystyle.com).

I think the long-time Palm users and Graffiti afficionados should take a moment of silence, since the release of this unit is likely (IMHO) the last new Palm we'll see that ships with Graffiti 1 standard (well, the Garmin iQue might, since it's been in the pipeline so long). We can certainly count on Palm SG's units not having it and the licensees will likely follow suit in the near future (with the possible exception of another smartphone or two). The end of an era!

Bosco, are we the fanbase, or just the fanboys?

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

There is a good chance that the NX-73V will have Bluetooth.
As you can see at the Site qualweb.bluetoothsig.org (http://makeashorterlink.com/?L1C1251F4)
there is a Divece PEG-NX73v listed with the Bluetooth profiles:
- OPP-Client
- OPP-Server
- DUN-DT
- LAN-DT
- GAP
- Serial-DevA
- Serial-DevB
- OBEX
- BIP-ImagePush
- BIP-RemCam

But roumors say that this version will only appear on the european market

Well you are right and BT WAS overhyped as the next great thing that would solve all connection problems. It has been trying to recover from the hype ever since.
Availability of BT devices is just now starting to take off. There are BT headsets, and keyboards and mice are not too far away from taking off. The main usefullness does look to be with phones however. Despite all the hype about WIFI the fact is that there are few open access points for the public and the real wireless network that is already in place everywhere is the cellular network. You need a cellphone with data/modem functionality to use it and if you can connect your PDA by BT to such a phone then that is the way to go. Many cellphone manufactures are now announcing BT enabled phones and cellular data services are starting to take off.
I have said that what is needed now is a separate BT to WIFI access point. TI has just announced a chipset solution to BT and WIFI interference and connectivity which should result in such a device in the not too distant future. http://www.wirelessnewsfactor.com/perl/story/21731.html

Bluetooth, for most of us, is a solution looking for a problem. It's a useless interface unless you've found a killer app that suits your needs. Of course, in a forum like this, you shouldn't expect a fair representation of the typical PDA user.

The answer is actually very simple. Nobody care about Bluetooth in Japan. They have 2.5/3G phones that can already do lots of wireless stuffs.

Bluetooth technology is only relevent in other parts of the world like US and Europe, which is why it might be included in European and/or US models.

"The only easy day was yesterday"

I bought a Tungsten T for reasons other than the BT but as I have a BT phone (Nokia 6310i) I decided I might as well experiment, now I am hooked! Fewer cables to carry, no need to align IR ports. I use it for downloading mail, surfing the web (useful for boring meetings), dialling direct from my Address book, writing SMS and now for syncing to my home PC. I use BtToggle to turn BT on/off as required and have no problem with power drain.

a Brit in Clogland

Bluetooth, for most of us, is a solution looking for a problem.

That's what most people would say about Palms and Grafitti itself.

But if you go down the gadget route, you might as well go it down correctly. Bluetooth gives you wireless hotsync, anywhere Internet access (via GPRS phone), and dialing from your address book, and those are very useful capabilities that no other technologies makes available conveniently (IrDA tries to but is too inconvenient). Bluetooth works, it's cheap, and it's simple to use. And it is widely used outside the US. It should be a no-brainer.

It's only because people like you who judge things they don't know anything about that keep back the adoption of Bluetooth. Instead of Bluetooth, we get bulky power hungry WiFi PDAs that only work at "hotspots" and are a pain to configure. That is supposed to be better?

- Bluetooth, for most of us, is a solution looking for a problem.

That's what most people would say about Palms and Grafitti itself.

Comparing the relative merits of Bluetooth to those of Palms and Graffiti is a very weak argument, not even worth rebutting. If you're going to try to advocate the usefulness of Bluetooth you'll need to do a lot better.

Bluetooth missed its window of opportunity and will soon be about as important as IR ports on cellphones are for most people in North America.

"Bluetooth missed its window of opportunity and will soon be about as important as IR ports on cellphones are for most people in North America."

Somehow I get the feeling you think the world revolves around one continent. Bluetooth is useful because data services like GPRS are available and very cheap all over Europe. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that one carrier only recently introduced unlimited service in the US!

As I mentioned above, since GPRS depends on the existing GSM networks deployed everywhere with 100% coverage of the country (well, the European ones anyway), bluetooth lets you have easy and practical access to the internet anywhere you go. You do NOT depend on the existense of access points.

If, like me, you've ever used IR to link your phone and access the internet, you KNOW why bluetooth is essential.

Again, I want Wi-Fi access too. It is faster than GPRS and potentially could be deployed over large areas such as cities. But until then, I am afraid I am dependent on bluetooth.

[i]Bluetooth gives you wireless hotsync,[/i]
It's a nice thing to have, but until Bluetooth becomes as ubiquitous as IrDA, I won't bother.

[i]anywhere Internet access (via GPRS phone),[/i]
I don't use a GPRS phone, nor should I want to. I once thought too that "internet everywhere" would be the mother of all killer apps - in theory. In practice, I'm much too busy with people and surroundings to suddenly whip out a phone/pda duo to do a quick Google search. I'd much rather get some exercise running to the nearest terminal to use the internet.

[i]Bluetooth works, it's cheap, and it's simple to use.[i]
I don't doubt that it works. It may be "cheap", but there's always a cost to adoption.

[i]And it is widely used [b]outside[/b] the US. It should be a no-brainer.[/i]
Ah, but I am [i]in[/i] the US, where Bluetooth is relatively rare. No brainer.

[i]It's only because people like you who judge things they don't know anything about that keep back the adoption of Bluetooth.[/i]
I do have a right to judge things when my money is involved. If I'm "holding back" the worldwide adoption of Bluetooth, then so be it. It's a free market.

I don't use a GPRS phone,

Your loss.

I once thought too that "internet everywhere" would be the mother of all killer apps - in theory. In practice, I'm much too busy with people and surroundings to suddenly whip out a phone/pda duo to do a quick Google search.

Again, your loss. Ubiquitous Internet access is particularly important in the US because SMS doesn't work across carriers; that is, people use E-mail and IM instead of SMS because it's the only thing that really works.

I do have a right to judge things when my money is involved.

You have a right to be as judgemental and ignorant as you like--the US Constitution grants you that. But having the right to be that doesn't change the fact that you are that.

If I'm "holding back" the worldwide adoption of Bluetooth, then so be it. It's a free market.

Who said anything about "worldwide"? The world really doesn't care how much further behind the US falls. But as a US consumer, I find it a real nuisance that telecommunications and consumer electronics are so primitive here.

I found setting up the T|T BT to my T68i peachy....

Select the phone, select the carrier, tap ok... simple...

Write an SMS in the included SMS app, tap SEND and its done....

If it was so quick to set up your wifi, I think it probably deserves to be hacked, because unless you have spent the time to properly secure it, you might as well have a lan point on your mail box outside your house for all to plug into...

Bluetooth is a perfect IR replacement, Short range, secure, quick and easy.

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running round in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."
-Kristian Wilson, Nintendo Inc, 1989

You can tell Satan hasn't had any practical use with Bluetooth if he thinks all you do is surf the net with it.

This is getting really old. I hear this arguement all the time.

Bluetooth vs WiFi is like USB vs Firewire.

They were orginally designed for different purposes, even though they used similiar ideas.

One was released 2 years before the other, gained wider support sooner, so people expect it to become the **standard** and displace the other, late-coming technology.

However, it doesn't change the fundamental differences between them. They are still designed for different purposes, and their implementations reflect that.

Both USB and Firewire used differential serial signalling, support hi-speed transfer, and support multiple devices on each bus. When USB 2.0 was announced, many people expected it to displace Firewire since USB was everywhere and USB 2.0 has a maximum raw data rate of 480Mbps, as opposed to Firewire's 400Mbps.

Having a competitive raw data rate doesn't change the fact that they are **fundamentally different**. USB is a host-managed protocol with a star topology, while Firewire is a hostless protocol with a bus topology. Device support in USB is largely arbituary and drivers are device-specific. Firewire has a wide set of defined application layers atop of it (e.g. DV, mLAN), and drivers are largely device-agnostic as a result.

Likewise, there are very fundamental differences between Bluetooth and 802.11x. 802.11x is less secure, and is solely a networking protocol (unless you dare to run PPPoE over 802.11x), by definition host-managed, and requires TCP/IP (and dozens of other protocols on top for TCP/IP) for most purposes. Bluetooth is a hostless, device-to-device protocol, with a much better implementation of its application layer. 802.11x's power requirements also makes it prohibitive in a lot of applications.

In conclusion, Bluetooth and 802.11x are very different. As much as you want USB to replace Firewire, there are simply things that are practical with USB. Likewise, it doesn't matter how ubiquitous WiFi is, there's still place for Bluetooth.

The Zire, NX70v, and NX73v have the same resolution camera. The Zire's lens is fixed, I think. Zire picture posts seem fuzzier and granier than Clie picture posts.

While the Zire's camera is nice, it's not quite at the quality of what the more expensive Clies do. The white balance is phenominal on the NX.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

The lower end Clie, which has the same specs as the Zire71, is starting at $499. The Zire71 is starting at $299. What the heck is Sony thinking?

"PS-I tried the TG50... and went screaming back to a unit with Grafitti. I'll NEVER drop dedicated grafitti, it was horrible. I'm tramatized by it."

Yes, the TG50 does have a rather horrible Thumboard...

But I've got a T|C, and the thumboard on it is actually usable!!

I was shocked!

Quite simply, I hate thumbboards. Give me a good messagease implementation, and I'll be very happy... but I wanted the T|C's speed, Ram, etc.

Now I'll admit that I do a lot more writing on my palm than the "ordinary" user - I write *long* emails, I write *long* journal entries, and I at least start to write complete books.

I actually used to do that happily with MessageaseKB on my m130, and I was getting pretty good/fast/accurate.

But I haven't been able to get MessageaseKB to work on my T|C, so I had to learn the thumboard (as G2's useless for me - I wasn't very good at G1 either).

So for me, at least, I can live with a TB until a tablet 320x420 comes along.

The Zire, NX70v, and NX73v have the same resolution camera. The Zire's lens is fixed, I think. Zire picture posts seem fuzzier and granier than Clie picture posts?

no the zire 71 is .3 megapixel..this one is 1.3

For $400 I could have a Sony with an inferior camera and the dreaded flip n'flounder clamshell. The clamshell has never really held much ooomf with me. I coudn't see myself flipping it all the time. The one smart thing they did with this form-factor is add those hardware buttons to the top so you can game and access stuff while folded screen out.

Or I could have the Zire. If it didn't mean having to get rid of my extra cradle, keyboard, mem stick etc, I would have gotten the T|T or the Zire last time I swapped out on my Best Buy plan.

The clamshell also acts as a case, and both the T|T and Zire need a screen cover. So, you either flip open the Clie, or you flip open the cover on the T|T or Zire. Basically, the Clie is like a Zire with a flip cover, except that the flip cover has a keyboard in it.

In terms of size, the Clies aren't all that big, in particular now that the bulge is gone.

In just about every other respect, the Clies are much nicer than the T|T or Zire. Of course, they are slightly more expensive, too.

yay. Someone that thinks like me.

Get rid of the friggin cams and make a small tablet palm and I might just switch to sonys.

well..i dont think the zire is lame..it packs a lot for $299

its just for the non pda power user though....hope they do get it right ith the T|T2

>> I believe that Palm / Sony are taking advantage of their pda market share by forcing us to buy such lame 16MB models at such insane prices ($400). Pretty much the same way as Microsoft always took advantage of its market share by forcing its lame products on us like Windows Me & IE.

Uh.. $400 is insane?! I paid that much for my 710C back in the day. I'd say holding low end at $400 is not too bad. Now $600, I can't quite do. When you factor in all of the accessories and dongles that you end up acquiring, that really tips the scale.

- I believe that Palm / Sony are taking advantage of their pda market share

What did you expect? They chased HandEra away from Palm OS and bought out Handspring. Palm and Sony will be selling these same models with a little tweak here or there 6 months to a year from now.

Get serious. Sony has put out approximately a dozen models in the past year. They're trying to see what sells right now, but expecting a radically different model to be released every second month is absurd. Even Palm has put out more truly new models in the past year than they ever have. Perhaps you're unaware how long it took Palm to make the dramatic leap from the V to the Vx. When these companies sit still, people complain. When they actually try to innovate, people complain. Bottom line is, one year from now you will be seeing hardware from Sony and Sony's Palm© division that makes current models look as lame as the Palm m505.

Now that Sony has started its takeover of Palm (http://biz.yahoo.com/e/030414/palm10-q.html), the HandEra wildcard has been effectively neutralized by Sonyzilla. HandEra management was - as always - clueless and the market will suffer because these "hick engineers" didn't have what it takes to compete at this level. Small, arrogant companies that try to run with big dogs like Sony and Microsoft will invariably get f***ed.

The TRGPro remains the best-designed PDA ever sold, almost four years after its release. This is a poor reflection on the remaining PDA manufacturers.