Comments on: PCMag looks at the Treo 600

PCMagazine has posted a preliminary review of a preproduction Handspring Treo 600. PCMag says the Treo 600 improves on the original in almost every way.
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Is that a mistake?

mikecane @ 6/27/2003 5:28:40 PM #
"Our unit did not ... come with a ... removable battery. At press time, Handspring had no plans to change [this] before the Treo's official release this fall."

Aren't removable batteries essential to cellphones? Don't all of them have that feature?

Is this a fatal error on HS's part?

RE: Is that a mistake?
Bioco @ 6/27/2003 5:38:51 PM #
NOPE, it is the new conspiration between companies to make you buy new equipment every 1.5 years. Look at the IPOD wich bateries are useless in a year and it is not replaceble and there are more examplesof this.

The blame is on us consumers who buy blindly and they know this. These are $500 dollars toys and are meant to break. Would you buy a electric stove from SEARS if you knew it would stop working in the next 2 years?Yet is costs about the same. Think about it!

RE: Is that a mistake?
mikecane @ 6/27/2003 5:50:34 PM #
Is that true about battery life? My CLIE S320 has a built-in LiOn battery and still holds a full charge very well now, going on -- my god! -- 20 months!

RE: Is that a mistake?
robrecht @ 6/27/2003 5:51:00 PM #
First of all, I think all high end handhelds and certainly all convergence smartphones should have replacable batteries.

As I recall, the original Handspring communicators had terrible battery life. I think this one has a much larger battery (1800 mA?) and there's been talk of some kind of clip-on extra battery that will be available. If this phone will not have an analog band (not a good thing IMO) it should have much better performance. At least Handspring seems to be trying to address this issue. Still, I won't buy it.

Is the SONY NZ the only currently manufactured Palm OS device to have a replacable battery? And, as others have pointed out, it's rather large to be called a handheld and it sounds like you need to replace the batteries rather frequently.

Palm should consult with Handera or just look to the HP 2200 which not only has a replacable battery but also a recharging slot in the cradle for a 2nd battery (not included).

Mike Cane showing an interest in cell phones? Maybe the end IS nigh.

Thanks, robrecht

RE: Is that a mistake?
mikecane @ 6/27/2003 6:13:05 PM #
>>Mike Cane showing an interest in cell phones? Maybe the end IS nigh.

HS looks to have created a very interesting device. As to whether that would make me actually want to *buy* it... or even want *any* sort of cellphone...

RE: Is that a mistake?
abosco @ 6/27/2003 6:43:28 PM #
Oh, don't worry. You'll sell out one of these days and become an obnoxious Nextel walkie-talkie freak like the rest of America.

Now where's that damn soap box. Oh, here we go. I hate anybody using Nextel who enjoys using it when they're at the mall and think nobody cares when they talk as loud as guys at a construction site. Just a few weeks ago some girl felt the need to talk about how pads aren't comfortable on a Nextel phone while browsing in the middle of a store. Oh yes, I lie not. What's worse, I was eating a sub I had snuck into the store.

So I say let's keep rechargeable batteries out of handsets. Let their batteries die. Anything to stop me from hearing about their "discomfort".

(But what's sad is that my $20 cell phone has a replaceable battery.)

-Bosco

RE: Is that a mistake?
mikecane @ 6/27/2003 10:01:09 PM #
>> Just a few weeks ago some girl felt the need to talk about how pads aren't comfortable on a Nextel phone while browsing in the middle of a store. Oh yes, I lie not. What's worse, I was eating a sub I had snuck into the store.

Really. I don't know which is more disgusting: the loud woman or abosco sneaking in food and actually *eating* it...

RE: Is that a mistake?
abosco @ 6/27/2003 10:04:29 PM #
LOL well I assumed you would understand, but as you may have already guessed, there was ketchup in that sandwich. The sub soon met a trashcan.

-Bosco
RE: Is that a mistake?
robrecht @ 6/27/2003 10:17:43 PM #
abosco, I usually like your posts, but that's vulgar.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Is that a mistake?
GregGaub @ 6/27/2003 10:27:17 PM #
Kyocera smartphones have replaceable batteries. They're also the bulkiest smartphones around. I'm sure the reason HS decided to keep it built-in was to reduce overall size of the unit, and because the batteries really do last a good long time these days (lifetime wise). I'd rather have a smaller phone than one with a replaceable battery I'll never need to replace.

-- SeaPUG: http://www.seapug.com --
RE: Is that a mistake?
abosco @ 6/27/2003 10:58:44 PM #
>abosco, I usually like your posts, but that's vulgar.

Yeah, but imagine having BEEN there! I state the facts, no exaggerations.

That's what gave Nextel a flunking grade in my book.

-Bosco

RE: Is that a mistake?
Nebrie @ 6/27/2003 11:13:31 PM #
Umm, if your iPod battery died in a year, you need to get the update. They fixed that problem a *long* time ago.

RE: Is that a mistake?
mikecane @ 6/28/2003 10:16:44 AM #
absoco, that is GROSS! Thirty shoes upon your infidel head!

RE: Is that a mistake?
pstreck @ 6/29/2003 3:45:32 PM #
Most of these batterys are still replaceable, you just have to find a reseller and not be afraid to take your device apart. Heck, I replaced a couple Vx batteries and that case didn't have screws!

RE: Is that a mistake?
palmcoder @ 6/30/2003 9:40:54 AM #
> Look at the IPOD wich bateries are useless in a year and it is not replaceble and there are more examplesof this.

Pardon my bluntness, but that statement is complete BS. The iPod has an expected life of nearly 10 years. My 10 GB iPod still holds a charge for 8 hours and I've had it for nearly a year.

Besides, the iPod comes with a 1 year warranty. If the battery *did* die in less than a year, it's replaced free of charge.

If you want to make a point, try using facts instead of flames next time.

RE: Is that a mistake?
critic @ 6/30/2003 1:04:43 PM #
>> Look at the IPOD wich bateries are useless in a
>> year and it is not replaceble and there are more
>> examples of this.

>Pardon my bluntness, but that statement is complete
>BS. The iPod has an expected life of nearly 10 years.
>My 10 GB iPod still holds a charge for 8 hours and
>I've had it for nearly a year.

Agreed. I've had my (original generation, old-school scroll wheel) 5gb iPod since December of 2001, and the battery life is actually BETTER now than it was when I got it, thanks to Apple's patches.

As for the benefit of the ability to replace the battery - I can replace the battery in my cell phone, but that hasn't stopped me from upgrading every two years. And in my experience, replaceable batteries gain a memory faster than hard-wired batteries. YMMV, but I've had no problems.

----
What do you think, sirs?

Is it just me?

JKE @ 6/27/2003 5:57:54 PM #
I really like the looks of this unit but, why do they need the camera? It would be nice to have a simple nice phone/pda with out so many bells and whistles.

RE: Is it just me?
mikecane @ 6/27/2003 6:03:08 PM #
Don't use the camera! Do you think excluding it would have dropped the price? Not so. Just increased their profit margins...

RE: Is it just me?
RAMd®d @ 6/27/2003 6:41:40 PM #
No, a lot of us don't want a camera.

But few manufacturers will make two models of the same phone, with and without a camera.

I don't want a camera either, and would rather have the space back for more battery.

Cameras are really popular with the kids these days.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: Is it just me?
GregGaub @ 6/27/2003 10:29:16 PM #
camera phones are big money makers for the wireless carriers. a Treo without a camera probably wouldn't be interesting to the carriers and not be sold by them. Handspring needs to sell through the carriers to succeed in this business.
I'm glad you guys always have a high-res digicam with you, but I'd like to minimize what I carry. Having a snap-shot quality camera on my at all times is VERY nice. I love my Zire 71 and Treo 180. With the Treo 600, I'll be able to combine them.

-- SeaPUG: http://www.seapug.com --
RE: Is it just me?
mikecane @ 6/28/2003 10:17:16 AM #
Infidels and swine! Can you not imagine the *true* use of such cameras?

http://tinyurl.com/fhxd

Are you not men? Manly men?

RE: Is it just me?
Dr Opinion @ 6/28/2003 2:02:21 PM #
The device would not be cheaper if there were "with camera" and "without camera" versions. The duplication would make the overall price of the device higher. Instead, the increased volumes (due to the camera) make the overall price lower. It's a finance thing. Don't worry, lot's of people can't get it. [;)]

"...I looked up "antediluvian", and they had a picture of a Pocket PC." ;)
RE: Is it just me?
dyspareunia @ 6/28/2003 2:22:09 PM #
With no bluetooth, no replaceable battery, and no video player, I think it makes a very expensive $500 phone.
RE: Is it just me?
Altema @ 6/28/2003 4:19:58 PM #
"Infidels and swine! Can you not imagine the *true* use of such cameras?"

Gee Mike, I hope you don't finance your home through that website... you might find your mortgage in arears.

RE: Is it just me?
mikecane @ 6/29/2003 8:30:48 AM #
Har-har. It's not my site. As if you didn't know that.

Samsung i500

digilaw @ 6/27/2003 7:08:40 PM #
Anyone have any updated info on when the Samsung sgh-i500 palm smartphone wll be coming out? Phone scoop has Q3 but we're in Q3 now. Spec-wise it blows the treo away and, knowing Samsung, will fall in the same price range. I don't know why its not getting as much press as the Treo (I don't mean here at pic but generally). I need a new phone and palm, it seems to fit the bill. Have to see it to be sure, the screen looks a bit small in the press releases. If only someone can convince the airlines that nothing bad will happen if the palm is on and the phone radio is off.

RE: Samsung i500
Appleman @ 6/27/2003 8:55:53 PM #
>>Spec-wise it blows the treo away and, knowing Samsung, will fall in the same price range.


How do you figure?

Samsung has Palm OS 4.1, 33MHz processor, 16 MB RAM. Treo has Palm OS 5.2.1, 144 MHz processor and 32 MB RAM. Screen is still debateable between the two, as none are listed as high-res.

RE: Samsung i500
ansmania @ 6/27/2003 9:36:01 PM #
Think he might be refering to the SGH-i500... not SPH...

RE: Samsung i500
robrecht @ 6/27/2003 9:46:25 PM #
The OS5 Samsung is GSM only so it may not get or deserve as much press in the US. The CDMA OS4 Samsung will be a bit smaller but, if I recall correctly, it doesn't have SD or MP3 so it will not deserve as much press as the Kyocera 7135 did receive. As nice as it is, it's hard to get too excited about the OS5 Samsung when the OS4 Samsung still has not been released.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Samsung i500
mikecane @ 6/27/2003 10:02:30 PM #
Why don't they give these things names, for God's sake? How far would the car industry have gone if cars were only numbered?!

Who'd feel romantic about their "BG789" or "765FR2"? Insert "Corvette" and "Mustang" -- and ahhh, nostalgia!

RE: Samsung i500
robrecht @ 6/27/2003 10:13:10 PM #
Now he wants to feel romantic about cell phones!

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Samsung i500
GregGaub @ 6/27/2003 10:31:35 PM #
the specs on the SGH-i500 and the Treo 600 are almost the same, last I checked. What about the SGH-i500 "blows away" the Treo 600?? IMHO, having a Treo 180 for over a year, I'd never want a smartphone without a thumboard. I love my Zire 71, but I keep wishing it had a phone and a thumboard in it. The Treo 600 is almost exactly that.

-- SeaPUG: http://www.seapug.com --
RE: Samsung i500
indesman @ 6/27/2003 11:48:33 PM #
Regarding the auto industry I'd just like to throw out a couple of numbers like: 911, 959, 928S4, 450SL, 500SEC. I'd take any one of those over a Whorevette any day.

RE: Samsung i500
M3wThr33 @ 6/28/2003 2:53:22 AM #
I don't really know much about cars, but last week I overhead my father talk about some engine called the Z71. I smiled.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.
RE: Samsung i500
mikecane @ 6/28/2003 10:18:55 AM #
>>Now he wants to feel romantic about cell phones!

I'd rather things have names instead of numbers.

"I'm not a number! I am a free man!"

According to some on this board, the next line would be, "Yeah, right. Get in line and take a number, pal."

RE: Samsung i500
Appleman @ 6/28/2003 12:45:21 PM #
>>Think he might be refering to the SGH-i500... not SPH...


Ooops, yeah I see that now. Still, as someone above metnioned, they practically have the same specs. I'll take the Treo's thumboard over the Samsungs high-res screen anyday. And I think the software integration with the phone will be much better on the Treo too.

RE: Samsung i500
abosco @ 6/28/2003 2:35:39 PM #
Well even awesome cars have numbers. Chevy Corvette Z06, Ferrari 360 Modena, as well as the entire line of Mercedes and BMW. At least Palm is trying to make things easier with Zire and Tungsten.

-Bosco
RE: Samsung i500
Altema @ 6/28/2003 4:24:34 PM #
You could really simplify things by getting an Audi TT and a Palm TT as a matched set. Just don't try to find the back seat of the Audi by yanking on the trunk...

RE: Samsung i500
rsc1000 @ 6/28/2003 5:59:58 PM #
>>Still, as someone above metnioned, they practically have the same specs. I'll take the Treo's thumboard over the Samsungs high-res screen anyday.

I think the the treo 600 sounds pretty good - but, you would give up a 324x342 TFT screen w/16bit color, for ancient palm low-res (160x160) CSTN screen with only 4096 colors?? The only reason i'd want to pay a premium for an OS 5 treo (or any OS 5 device) is for multi-media capabilities - so whats the point in going OS 5 and then crippling the graphics/screen? I mean - people who think that the 600 is acceptable with this screen would probably bitch if the device was OS 4.1 - but without hi-res the reasons for OS 5 are significantly less (BTW i know that hi-res is not essential to OS 5 - but the standardization of hi-res support for OS 5 is an important benefit). I mean - adding an mp3 subsystem to an OS 4 device is no biggy.

The other thing nice about the samsung: its a clamshell design with an external screen for important info - so when not using it, the screen wont get scratched up like the treo.

RE: Samsung i500
Appleman @ 6/29/2003 12:19:28 AM #
>>you would give up a 324x342 TFT screen w/16bit color, for ancient palm low-res (160x160) CSTN screen with only 4096 colors??

Of course I would prefer a better screen and enjoy the multimedia features a lot more. However, many reviews have stated that the screen is pretty respectable. And yes, I would trade the screen for a thumboard.

Wow!

Fzara2000 @ 6/27/2003 11:44:44 PM #
Sweet device..but one thing which stunned me when I saw that picture was...what kind of car is that!?

It kinda looks like the MINI, but i'm not sure.



"Now thats just PRIME!"

RE: Wow!
jm00 @ 6/28/2003 12:42:03 AM #
Definitely a Mini.

The name of the device!

temp_user @ 6/28/2003 5:56:35 AM #

Would this phone be called Palm Treo 600, or handspring Treo 600, when it is released?

I hope it is Palm Tre 600, as I like Palm, otherwise I might not buy it, even if I like it!

Regards

RE: The name of the device!
mikecane @ 6/28/2003 10:20:22 AM #
Hahahaha! Palm Tre. That's good.

RE: The name of the device!
temp_user @ 6/28/2003 10:47:28 AM #

Well I ment Palm Treo 600, not Palm Tree 600 :-)

RE: The name of the device!
Be_True @ 6/28/2003 12:46:37 PM #
As I recall, the official company information stated that it would be initially released as a Handspring Treo 600, then changed to Palm Treo 600 as the company change becomes official.

As you may remember, the initial Palm III's were not made by "Palm"

-Chris

RE: The name of the device!
temp_user @ 6/30/2003 6:28:12 AM #
That is good, because if Palm doesn’t use its strong brand, I find it hard to see how they can enter the competitive smart phone market. Personally I believe in the brand, Palm. It is a well-known and respected brand, if they combine it with breaking through products, success might follow.

Regards


Photo Editor Needed

Timothy Rapson @ 6/28/2003 8:23:35 AM #
So this Fall, there will be 7 count 'em SEVEN Palm OS models with cameras, including my Clie NR70V that has been out for over a year, and there is still not one, not a single, photo editing program from a third party.

This is pathetic. Come on, developers. The other PDAs have photo editing software. I want TealPaint with high resolution, fonts, and external memory support. I want Photogenics, PocketArtist, or even the HandCom Mobile photo and paint program available for the Linux OS Zaurus.

Do I have to sit here with my $25-40 in hand forever waiting on you deadbeats!

RE: Photo Editor Needed
mikecane @ 6/28/2003 10:20:53 AM #
No, of course not. Put down that money and make your hand useful:

http://tinyurl.com/fhxd

RE: Photo Editor Needed
abosco @ 6/28/2003 11:34:07 AM #
Sony's Photo Editor in ROM is pretty basic, but it has some nice features. It's particularly nice how it integrates with Clie Mail for direct email once you finish drawing on a template.

-Bosco
RE: Photo Editor Needed
mikecane @ 6/29/2003 8:32:42 AM #
Is that what you used to take the Infamous Picture of your girly-man hand? Boy, that could have used some touch-up! You could have gotten rid of that ugly nail polish, for one thing.

RE: Photo Editor Needed
abosco @ 6/29/2003 1:09:49 PM #
Yeah, I used Photo Editor to take a picture of me flipping you off. Clie Camera is for losers. Sony's stomach will roast in hell.

You're losing it, man.

-Bosco

RE: Photo Editor Needed
mikecane @ 6/29/2003 1:53:39 PM #
Infidel! Offspring of unclean swine! I meant your girly-man CLIE *camera* you man with girly-man paws.

RE: Photo Editor Needed
abosco @ 6/29/2003 1:58:13 PM #
At least I'm not a woman with man-hands like you. I thank God everyday for that.

-Bosco
RE: Photo Editor Needed
mikecane @ 6/29/2003 1:59:07 PM #
Is that the best you can come up with? Where's ska to sharpen your skills? They've grown pathetically flaccid. Just like... let's not go there.

RE: Photo Editor Needed
abosco @ 6/29/2003 2:06:40 PM #
You are not my target, although this would have been an easy comeback. My real target is still Foo for that mess he posted. I'll let this one slide. But be on guard. You're bound to screw up again.

-Bosco

SIM Card

ejamor @ 6/28/2003 3:38:52 PM #
Does anyone know if the TREO has a slot for a SIM card? Or is it hardwired inside and you can only get GSM service from a specific carrier?
I tried calling Palm for the same question about the Tungsten C and they hadn´t the slightest clue.

RE: SIM Card
Marshall Flinkman @ 6/28/2003 9:50:00 PM #
1) I've never seen a GSM phone that didn't have a SIM card slot. I seriously doubt they'd change that from the 180 and 270.

2) The Tungsten C does not have a SIM card slot, as it is not a phone. Methinks you mean the W, which is a phone and does have a SIM card slot.

More on SIM Cards on the Treo 600 and Tungsten W
Marshall Flinkman @ 6/29/2003 4:12:01 PM #
On the 600, there's a little door on the top (near the SD slot) and the SIM card slides in there--done that way to make the new design sturdier/to save space. (From a review I found on Treocentral).

On the Tungsten W, btw, there's a panel that opens on the back. Much like the Treo 180 and 270.

Treo 600 will be first DC3 - first test out for Handspring

lechter @ 7/2/2003 12:57:31 PM #
Let's face it, the BUSINESS angle on the Treo 300 sunk Handspring. The 600 will be the first "ready for prime time" smart phone.

I doubt Sprint will support it well when it comes out. Not 10,000 users but 100,000 users will create a wave of wait.

What Palm should do is to try to pre-ready it so that Sprint has to do little to activate it.

Historically it will be a huge model, as it is the first cute practical all in one phone.

Battery life

sidmill @ 8/20/2003 7:18:43 AM #
Battery life is not measured in years, as far as I know. Most Li-ion batteries have a useful life of about 500 charge cycles. That means if you charge it every day, it will last for 500 days.

Then it will die, even if each day you only top it up a little. That is why it is a good idea to let the battery drain to where you REALLY need to recharge.

My 270 gets charged on average every 1.5 days, because it really needs it. The Ericsson t68 that I have been using, while the Treo was being replaced from a cracked screen, lasts a good week between charges. The T68's battery will probably last at least 4 times as long.

The Treo 600 clearly has a battery that will go for longer between charges than the 270, and so the battery will probably last for a lot longer than the 270's.

SAR Radiation

sidmill @ 8/20/2003 7:26:56 AM #
It looks very much as if the Treo 600 is considerably worse than the 270 for SAR. Don't hold me to it, but I seem to remember that the 270 is about 0.65, the 600 is about 1.5, and the legal limit is 1.6.

Kinda makes a difference.

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