Comments on: Palm Elaborates on the HandSpring Merger & PalmSource Spinoff

Palm has filed a registration statement on Form S-4 with the Securities and Exchange Commission in connection with the PalmSource spinoff and the acquisition of Handspring. The document outlines the process and details about the PalmSource spinoff and the Handspring merger.
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1st post!! Ha ha ah

Zippy @ 7/7/2003 6:55:25 PM #
Hey, is it just me, or is Palminfocenter getting kinda lame these days. The updates are far and few between and the competition seems to have more and better posts.

Just asking.

RE: 1st post!! Ha ha ah
Jonmills88 @ 7/7/2003 7:16:35 PM #
Well seeing as how it is the summer right after July 4th there isn't anything happening. There havent been any new handhelds for quite some time so news is kind of slow. Perhaps you should find something better to do with your time than check PIC everday

slow news
Admin @ 7/7/2003 7:26:59 PM #
Yes, the news has been on the slow side as is usually the case in the summer. I am planning on trying a new format soon and will be updating the site more often so please stay tuned. I appreciate your concern, PIC is not going away or "dying", there are always active discussions going on in our forums. As always, we welcome any volunteers that would be interested in contributing content, reviews, editorials or helping out with the site, just drop me a line.

-Ryan
webmaster@palminfocenter.com
RE: 1st post!! Ha ha ah
epall @ 7/7/2003 7:48:55 PM #
This is why I suggested a donation button. I would think that with more money, PIC could get more editors. More editors = more content. Am I missing something here?

Eh?
Lucky Bob @ 7/7/2003 9:10:49 PM #
"Perhaps you should find something better to do with your time than check PIC everday"

What's wrong with that???

(Why do some people say you can kill two birds with one stone when it's hard enough killing one bird with two stones?)

RE: 1st post!! Ha ha ah
abosco @ 7/8/2003 12:20:05 AM #
>Hey, is it just me, or is Palminfocenter getting
>kinda lame these days. The updates are far and few
>between and the competition seems to have more and
>better posts.

I'm sorry, but what competition? Brighthand? Infosync? ClieSource? Hate to break it to you, but you're not reading much Palm OS news anywhere. It's all either PPC or mobile phone stuff.

As for checking everyday, there's nothing wrong with that as long as you're a patient person. ;) Can't strangle the guy if he doesn't make a new post every three hours (yet).

-Bosco

RE: 1st post!! Ha ha ah
touchdown @ 7/8/2003 7:43:10 AM #
>I'm sorry, but what competition? Brighthand? >Infosync? ClieSource? Hate to break it to you, but >you're not reading much Palm OS news anywhere. It's >all either PPC or mobile phone stuff.

I must disagree. PDANews24.com , formerly "CliePlanet" it the place where I get my POS news.

They are updating the site with news about 6 days a week and it usually holds about 10 different small or big news stories each day.

Looking at that site it seems there sure is POS news, I just cant understand why it never makes it to PIC.


RE: 1st post!! Ha ha ah
SaabCaptain @ 7/8/2003 7:46:12 AM #
There isn't any big news... what do you want? When the new OS 6 models hit in the fall this place will be going crazy...

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, Tungsten T.
RE: 1st post!! Ha ha ah
rsc1000 @ 7/8/2003 8:36:17 AM #
>>Hate to break it to you, but you're not reading much Palm OS news anywhere. It's all either PPC or mobile phone stuff.

Thats because MS just released their new os - last fall/winter it was mostly POS news everywhere. As the poster above stated - when os 6 comes out it'll be nuts around here.


Dirth of Palm news
melopsittacus @ 7/8/2003 8:48:26 AM #
I agree, my sense is that PIC is less "energetic" these days. Things appear to have slipped a bit since Ed left for Brighthand. Less reviews about devices. Less reviews of programs. Less news about shows. Fewer rumors. Fewer interviews.

That said, I have tried Brighthand, but it seems to serve mostly as a conduit for PR companies. Further, I do not trust that their discussion boards are not being flooded by Microsoft stooges. PIC strikes me as a more honest site. It _would_ be interesting to compare the combined PPC advertising budgets of M$, Dell, H-P / Compaq, Toshiba, etc. compared with Palm and Sony. This comparison might account for the hype surrounding PPC devices and the lack of hype surrounding Palm OS devices. I mean, with OS6 so close we Palm should be getting people excited. Sadly, they are not. Afte Consumer Reports gave Palm devices such high marks there should have been a splash of hype. Again, there was not. My only explanation is that Palm is so distracted worrying about spinoffs and mergers that PR is suffering. Also, this only confirms the old addage "Microsoft is the world's premier PR firm that just happens to sell software."

RE: 1st post!! Ha ha ah
hkklife @ 7/8/2003 9:06:14 AM #
This is precisely what I worried about happening a few years ago if Palm didn't sign another "big name" licensee (Apple, Dell, IBM etc)-a slow erosion/shrinking excitement about the Palm OS market.

I think that Sony has reached the point where they don't want to sink as much money into new models as they did two years or so ago. The most recent batch of oversized, underperforming clamshell NX/NZ devices confirm this. Really, guys, when was the last time you said "Wow!" to new Palm machine (it can be argued the Garmin has such a wow factor but IMHO it's been delayed faaaaaaaar too long and by the time it is finally released (much like the T|T2) it will be likely be considered underwhelming spec-wise.

The T|C might end up doing more harm than good to any models released for the rest of the year-we've already confirmed that the T|T2, iQue, and new NX Sonys all have far less ram than the C. Since we're not playing the clockspeed game that much (yet) in the handheld market, Joe 6-pack will pretty much buy based on price, size, and amount of memory.

On the subject of the website, perhaps the dude that runs Palmstation.com should give it up finally and jump ship to PIC. I have to admit, though, not receiving any sample units to review from Palm is just about the dagger in the heart for any site that is trying to be the one-stop reference site for all things Palm like PIC is.

Quality or Quantity
Fammy @ 7/8/2003 9:45:16 AM #
It sounds like some of you want quantity over quality. There is a small amount of POS news during the summer. Sure this can be made up by posting press releases as news (ack!) or reviews of various software. I'd prefer the updates for the sake of updating be skipped. I can do without.

As Ryan said, you can provide content via reviews and what-not. I'd love to donate a little spare time for some free software/hardware. =)

_____
Fammy

RE: 1st post!! Ha ha ah
Mausoleum @ 7/8/2003 10:51:58 AM #
Mhmm... I just read pdanew24.... Yeah, they have a lot more news.... "My friend got a new flip cover and wrote his thoughts", "Game xyz was converted to HiRes", "My Dog is sick", "I am bored"...


hmmm... Most of it is just fluff... I think it's great that PIC only posts noteworthy stuff... from the looks of pdanews24, I did not miss anything that I mind... and if I want all the fluff low-profile news, PIC also has it... on the lower right... "Notable stories"

MST

RE: 1st post!! Ha ha ah
hkklife @ 7/8/2003 11:58:06 AM #
I was recently pleasantly surprised by going to www.pdarcade.com

Of course, not as much Palm gaming coverage as PPC but there still were some overlooked gems in there. I've really gotten tired of Astraware's endlessly rehashed day-glo puzzle games and was looking for some notable Palm games from smaller companies. I just think that if PIC were to somehow team up with a site like that (rebrand their coverage of Palm OS entertainment titles, for example) they could at least churn out some new content a few times per day.

Since it seems' PIC's output has dimished considerably since registration became mandatory, why don't we try to make it a point to generate some user or guest reviews or something ourselves? Pepper?

(I'd be willing to do a quick roundup of the recent batch of entertainment titles on MMC(Rayman, PopCap, Sega, Game Essentials), since I bought all of them as soon as they were released in a combined fit of air travel boredom and Palm loyalty)

RE: 1st post!! Ha ha ah
abosco @ 7/8/2003 1:43:36 PM #
>They are updating the site with news about 6 days a
>week and it usually holds about 10 different small
>or big news stories each day.
>
>Looking at that site it seems there sure is POS
>news, I just cant understand why it never makes it to PIC.

I disagree with that. It's more or less a blog. I stopped reading once I saw, "Sorry, but I wont be able to do any updates tomorrow. My son is getting a cist removed from between his testicles."

Sure, they update a lot, but they're not full stories or anything. Just two sentences and a link. A lot of that is covered by a weekly quickie. If you like smaller updates like that, cool.

Hey, I'm trying not to defend PIC, but don't blame them when there's simply no news to post.

-Bosco

Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...

NYCLaw @ 7/7/2003 6:55:57 PM #
Since Handspring has embedded itself in the niche-market of lower-end Palm OS handhelds, Palm will probably grab a larger share of the PalmOS PDA market... I'm not sure if this has any relevance for us consumers, but I DID get the first post!

And, to PalmInfoCenter: Please, PLEASE try to update the page more often! I know I'm not the first person to ask, but I too used to be a PIC addict, and it's so disappointing to check in and see the same info all day, let alone for almost a FULL WEEK!
If you have to, we'd be happy if you made up the exciting Palm news!

(Guess I DIDN'T get the first post!)
NYCLaw @ 7/7/2003 6:59:39 PM #
Missed it by just a few seconds!
RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
treo007 @ 7/7/2003 7:17:32 PM #
Compete w/Sony??? No offense, but Sony's always had a hard time competing with Palm in terms of market share. Don't get me wrong, Sony makes good, innovative product. With the introduction of the Zire 71 and Tungsten C however, it would seem Palm is getting closer to (maybe even surpassing) Sony in the feature race.

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
abosco @ 7/8/2003 12:23:36 AM #
The T|C isn't innovation, it's crammed specs, and I like it. But I want innovation AND crammed specs. You see that T|T2? Why not put in some T|C specs in there? And the NX73v and NX80v? Put a 400 MHz processor and 64 MB RAM and you've got a golden product and some crazy innovation.

Point is, Sony is trying to catch up to Palm's marketshare while Palm is trying to catch up to Sony's innovation. I'd say both are doing a fair job. I still think OS 6 is when we're going to see the real innovation. The new devices are just stuff to hold us over until then, sort of like the entire idea behind OS 5.

-Bosco

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
Zippy @ 7/8/2003 1:48:16 AM #
Funny!! we both posted first and had the same concerns about PIC. He he he ( I still love it here, don't get me wrong)

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
treo007 @ 7/8/2003 12:39:01 PM #
>>The T|C isn't innovation, it's crammed specs, and I like it. But I want innovation AND crammed specs. You see that T|T2? Why not put in some T|C specs in there? And the NX73v and NX80v? Put a 400 MHz processor and 64 MB RAM and you've got a golden product and some crazy innovation.

Guess it depends on what you refer to as "innovation". I don't know of any other Wi-Fi PDA out there with that kind of battery, screen, memory, and form factor/weight.

I think Palm, like Nokia for instance, wants a PRODUCT LINE that will appeal to a wide customer base, and not just one "do-it-all" product that, in theory, would appeal to everyone. That's the thing about theories sometimes (they don't work). One "uber device" wouldn't necessarily sell that well as it would cost a great deal, wouldn't lead to frequent "upgrades" in the future (i.e. new consumer purchases), and may not be aesthetically pleasing to many customers.

In other words, they want a diverse product line rather than putting most of their eggs in one basket. Makes perfect business sense. My point is, in spite of all that, the T|C is quite an offering.

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
abosco @ 7/8/2003 1:33:37 PM #
>I don't know of any other Wi-Fi PDA out there with
>that kind of battery, screen, memory, and form
>factor/weight.

Arguably, there's the Toshiba e750 with dual slots. Like I said before, it's not innovation, it's just crammed specs. But I want those crammed specs with a touch of innovation. The keyboard wasn't a bad idea. But be the first to get a smaller 320x480 tablet PDA out! It's a disgrace that Garmin is the only one that's going to have it.

>In other words, they want a diverse product line
>rather than putting most of their eggs in one
>basket. Makes perfect business sense. My point is,
>in spite of all that, the T|C is quite an offering.

If only you saw what I think Palm's product line should be. I never said make a multimedia T|C and that's all you need. I KNOW they need things to appeal to a wide audience. But by wide audience, that also includes the HIGH END. I want multimedia, innovation, something that looks cool, and something with as many specs as humanly possible. And make sure it can last me a few hours while using constant Wifi and MP3 on full brightness. If they don't make something like this, they AREN'T appealing to the wide audience, and the premier-line is arguably the most important line because it shows investors and partners what the company is capable of. Not so much on the revenue side, but if you want me to be YOUR company's customer, give me what I want or I will move to the next company that can deliver it to me.

>wouldn't lead to frequent "upgrades" in the future
>(i.e. new consumer purchases)

Yeah, that's a great business practice. Half-ass things so they have to upgrade to your products. I'm sure that's working for Palm. NOT. They're losing marketshare for a reason. You may think they have the perfect business practice going on right now, but their current numbers tell otherwise. They need to straighten up, and the first thing to do is give the people what they want NOW.

-Bosco

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
orb2069 @ 7/8/2003 4:07:05 PM #
I want multimedia, innovation, something that looks cool, and something with as many specs as humanly possible. And make sure it can last me a few hours while using constant Wifi and MP3 on full brightness.

In other words, you want Palm to perfect some form of basic technology that dosen't exsist on the general market yet (ex: alcohol power cells, Long-life OLEDs, greatly improved heat/power ratio silicon), so that they can provide all the benefits of current technologies, without any of the drawbacks?

Do you need me to spell out the problem here? In case you haven't heard, life is a series of compromises - Anybody that tells you diffrent is probably in Public Relations.

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
mikecane @ 7/8/2003 4:56:35 PM #
God, this is so dull! Where the hell is ska, blueska, or whatever color s/he/it is this week?!

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
abosco @ 7/8/2003 5:34:05 PM #
Hmm, must I spell it out for you? I want T|C specs with the NX's multimedia features in a T-series form that will last me 3 hours of continuous Wifi with MP3 and full brightness. I'm sure it can be done. People have been asking for this for... oh... I don't know, about a year now? TG50 - keyboard + 400 MHz + 64 MB + 320x480 = success. Maybe even an H2215 with 320x480? I fail to see the problem. It's called innovating and finding new ways to get those crammed specs into a smaller package while adding something new.

>God, this is so dull! Where the hell is ska,
>blueska, or whatever color s/he/it is this week?!

Can you say summer? I remember last year we went days without an update during the summer. Ska has moved back to Brighthand after being thugged here by the Boscinator. ;)

-Bosco

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
mikecane @ 7/8/2003 6:28:17 PM #
"Maybe even an H2215 with 320x480?" -- bite your tongue! Not if it has that ^%$#@ing screen! They ditched that gorgeous 1910 screen and went with the ViewSonic V35 screen. Jihad hp!

Foo Fighter vs abosco
mikecane @ 7/8/2003 9:12:11 PM #
http://pocketfactory.com/ -- look what foo has now, abosco! When will you start yours, girly-man-handed girly man?

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
treo007 @ 7/9/2003 2:37:10 AM #
>>Arguably, there's the Toshiba e750 with dual slots. is the only one that's going to have it.

Yeah, but the only problem with the Toshiba is that it doesn't work...Again, the T|C delivers a faster wi-fi experience due to the efficiences of POS over PPC. The battery lasts longer than 20 minutes as well.

>>If only you saw what I think Palm's product line should be.

Remember, you're only one person and probably not indicative of the PDA market.

>>I want...something that looks cool, and something with as many specs as humanly possible.

Who said it doesn't "look cool"? Sounds rather subjective to me. And careful what you wish for with the specs. A good example is PPC: A jack of all trades and master of none. Or better yet, Sony seems to have crammed everything possible into the NZ-90. Of course, you need a hydraulic lift to carry it around with you....

>>Yeah, that's a great business practice. Half-ass things so they have to upgrade to your products. I'm sure that's working for Palm. NOT. They're losing marketshare for a reason. You may think they have the perfect business practice going on right now, but their current numbers tell otherwise. They need to straighten up, and the first thing to do is give the people what they want NOW.

Again, relatively different market segment, but it seems to work for Nokia. I don't think Palm's non-innovative past can necessarily be indicative of it's current offerings or future (that's my whole point). By the way, most of the quarterly market reports over the last year plus have showed little erosion of Palm's market share (it's actually increased some quarters I believe). Sony recently lost share to HP. Does that mean Sony's not innovating either?

The consensus seems to be an overwhelming thumbs up for the Zire 71 and T|C (I think the T|T2 will be a hit as well if it shows up with the rumored specs and screen of the recent models). Are there areas where those products can be improved? Sure. Are they lacking "innovation" compared to the rest of the market? Hardly.

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
mikecane @ 7/9/2003 6:03:04 PM #
> Yeah, but the only problem with the Toshiba is that it doesn't work...

What planet are you on? It works just fine. (Barring manufacturing deficiencies, which seem to plague PPCs as a whole...)

And having tried both, I'd rather have the Toshi over that TungC any day. I'm sick of White Castle hamburger square screens. (And Twist-the-Chicken's-Neck CLIEs.)

The Tung C demo model at my local CUSA *can't* connect to the net just as often as the e755! And it's harder to figure out *why* on the Tung C, than the e755!


RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
orb2069 @ 7/10/2003 12:28:38 AM #
I want T|C specs with the NX's multimedia features in a T-series form that will last me 3 hours of continuous Wifi with MP3 and full brightness. I'm sure it can be done. People have been asking for this for... oh... I don't know, about a year now?

Okay - If 'people have been asking for this' for a year, and it STILL hasn't 'Been done', woulden't that make you LESS sure it CAN be done, instead of MORE?

Or do you think some guy in a lab is just sitting there, chortling, waiting for you to whine sufficiently to release it?

Untill color screen technology changes signifigantly, anything with decent viewability is going to be a power hog. Ditto on wireless, MP3codecs/high-speed CPUs, etc.

Wish in one hand, dump in the other, and see which fills up first.

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
mikecane @ 7/10/2003 10:10:28 AM #
> Wish in one hand, dump in the other, and see which fills up first.

Owners reports indicate over *two* hours of continuous WiFi use with the new hp 2215 -- using *power-hungry* CF WiFi cards.

Er, what's that in your hands?

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
mikecane @ 7/10/2003 10:12:08 AM #
Eew. It's in my hands too.

I didn't see his wish about MP3 and full brightness *at the same time* as WiFi.

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
treo007 @ 7/10/2003 12:49:11 PM #
>>What planet are you on? It works just fine. (Barring manufacturing deficiencies, which seem to plague PPCs as a whole...)

The same planet in which PPC's repeatedly crash and reset, slow down to a crawl because of poor memory handling, and lose battery power after about 20 minutes of wi-fi usage. All this in addition to the manufacturing deficiences you mentioned (of which there a ton).

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
orb2069 @ 7/10/2003 4:43:33 PM #
Owners reports indicate over *two* hours of continuous WiFi use with the new hp 2215 -- using *power-hungry* CF WiFi cards.

Which, even if it wasn't exaggerating (What does FUD stand for again, folks? How many times has M$ been naild for PAYING trolls to plant this kind of stuff?), woulden't be the three hours he was asking for, or inclued MP3 playing. Thanks for proving my point, but I don't need the help.

Er, what's that in your hands?

Your lunch money. Have a nice day. Next?

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
mikecane @ 7/12/2003 7:59:00 PM #
> and lose battery power after about 20 minutes of wi-fi usage

Oh give me a break. This is so ill-informed. Actually, no. It's a downright lie.

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
abosco @ 7/13/2003 12:47:44 AM #
The T|C is said to go SEVERAL hours with constant Wifi usage due to its 1500 mAh battery. The H2215 has a 900 mAh battery, which is almost half that of the T|C. Now add in MP3 and a 320x480 screen on full brightness with Wifi, and you can get three good hours of straight usage. The T|C is average-sized, too.

I have FUD that Sony is over-emphasising some things. The retracting CF slot is a great idea, but it's poorly implemented. The ENTIRE design is .8 inches thick now WHEN CLOSED. The NX was .6 inches thick for half the unit, then crawled up to .9 inches up near the top for the CF slot, no matter if a card was inserted or not. I think the NX80v will feel worse in the pocket.

It can be done. Sony just suddenly feels the need to put a keyboard in everything $400+ these days and static graffiti for the rest.

-Bosco

RE: Maybe NOW Palm Can Compete With Sony...
orb2069 @ 7/15/2003 3:25:15 PM #
The H2215 has a 900 mAh battery, which is almost half that of the T|C. Now add in MP3 and a 320x480 screen on full brightness with Wifi, and you can get three good hours of straight usage.
...

The T|C is average-sized, too.

So, in short, if we take a machine that's bigger than a T|C, double the size of the battery, add in an MP3 player, and stick in a bigger screen, we'll have something that's the same size as the T|C with equivolent battery life?

And for an encore, you can strap a 12v wet-cell to the back of your laptop and get two days continuous runtime out of it! Wonderful!

It's an incredible idea! Do you happen to have a job in marketing? Or are you just a manager?

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