Comments on: Palm OS 6 Will Be Finished In Late December

PalmSource has announced at its developer seminar, currently under way in Munich, that Palm OS 6, code-named Sahara, will be complete by December 29th. The new version will focus on wireless technology standards, security and multimedia.

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Happy 2004!

rened @ 9/23/2003 3:20:18 PM #

can't wait to see the Tungsten C2 (or 3)

RE: Happy 2004!

flevy @ 9/23/2003 4:18:31 PM #

I can't speak to the C# but if you want to see the

Tungsten T3, go to:

http://www.pdaclub.pl/view.php?news_id=6908

RE: Happy 2004!

ozz @ 9/23/2003 11:38:47 PM #

Wow! That pic of the T3 looks Great! Oh, BTW, what language is that web site? Looks like Pig Latin! Ha!

RE: Happy 2004!

blue9 @ 9/23/2003 11:59:00 PM #

Polish I think (.pl domain)

Core Apps

Quik_Fix @ 9/23/2003 3:20:18 PM #

Please please please! let this be the one where they upgrade the 4 core apps! I want better contact handling! I think the #1 change I would like to see in Palm is the ability to have more than one mailing address per contact (home and work). I'm amazed that all this time has passed and the four cores are still almost IDENTICAL to OS 1.0! Maybe they're holding on to them to continually claim the "Zen of Palm", but I'd really love to see the change. Let's hope those screenshots that were around before really are of OS 6. I'll skip 5 and move right on up!

Oh my God. They found me. I dunno how but they found me...
RUN FOR IT MARTY!

Quik_Fix
quikfix76@msn.com

RE: Core Apps

hotpaw4 @ 9/23/2003 3:27:33 PM #

I've heard that they've been limiting changes to the core PIM apps so as not to break installations of HotSync, the Palm desktop or 3rd party PIM enhancement applications. But one of the May PalmSource conference speakers said that the new PIM apps will be breaking the 15 category limit; if true it seems that some things will be changing in incompatible ways in OS 6.

RE: Core Apps

Quik_Fix @ 9/23/2003 3:59:26 PM #

In my ideal world, they would upgrade the core apps and provide a wizard to import my old core app info into it.

Oh my God. They found me. I dunno how but they found me...
RUN FOR IT MARTY!

Quik_Fix
quikfix76@msn.com

RE: Core Apps

helf @ 9/23/2003 5:34:01 PM #

Apparently there with no longer be a 4kb limit in memopad too :D

RE: Core Apps

bcombee @ 9/23/2003 6:58:12 PM #

David Fedor's talk from today at Munich touched upon the PIM apps slightly. He stated that the PIM apps would be using a new "schema database" system that debuts in Palm OS 6. This allows other apps to add fields to the records and to get info out of the records in a way that doesn't require them to know the internals of the apps. He said other apps could add fields to the PIM records and that the PIM programs may make those available to the user. On the category front, he said Palm OS 6 would support 255 categories, and a single record could be associated with multiple categories among the 255, i.e. a person could be a "friend", a "business contact", a "Californian", etc -- you don't have to pick just one.

They didn't show any PIM apps, but David Fedor did demo an app that showed the scaling font technology (TrueType compatible) along with drawing rotation and alpha blending. During the first run, the simulator crashed, but after restarting it, the app ran to completion... he said that alpha OS version had a memory leak.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: Core Apps

bcombee @ 9/23/2003 7:03:15 PM #

Just to add to this -- Palm OS 6 will support PACE, so most applications that work fine on OS 5 will also work well on OS 6. To take advantage of most of the new OS features, apps will need to be rebuilt as ARM native apps. Applications will not have direct access to screen memory for security reasons -- this prevents an app running in the background from reading the pixels of a secure foreground app, for example. Apps can have multiple threads, and they can run in a background process. OS 6 will have variable sized input areas; if a particular input area type doesn't need the whole standard "Grafitti" space, it can tell the OS it uses less height, and apps will have the ability to adjust their size to use the additional room.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: Core Apps

Gekko @ 9/23/2003 7:06:44 PM #

Dear Palm -

1. Please remove 4k Memo Limit.
2. Please add native security/encryption.

Thank you.

RE: Core Apps

Scott R @ 9/23/2003 7:18:09 PM #

I don't need more categories, though being able to assign one person to multiple categories is good. I also don't want tons of new fields that I have to scroll past like the PPC has (anyone know what a Radio Telephone # is for?). Here's a few core things I'd like to see (in addition to the multitasking that will be there):

1) Dedicated Birthday field that ties automatically to your address book to notify you about someone's birthday.
2) Tap-and-hold functionality as part of the core API.
3) Revive WeSync technology and integrate it into the OS. Being able to keep up-to-date with everyone in your family's schedule and/or team members' availability is a killer feature.

Imagine that. All things that don't require super-fast processors or anything.

Scott

http://TapLand.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: Core Apps

helf @ 9/23/2003 7:33:11 PM #

No direct screen access at all 'eh? That kinda sucks :|

FONTS, baby!!!

mikecane @ 9/23/2003 7:36:18 PM #

Ben: SCALABLE fonts?!

Thank you thank you thank you thank you PalmSource!!!

RE: Core Apps

arielb @ 9/24/2003 12:47:05 AM #

yes you can use beyond contacts...you can have any field you use in outlook

RE: Core Apps

braicheff @ 9/24/2003 4:04:14 AM #

Excuse me? No direct screen access? You must be kidding, right? I mean, you REALLY must be kidding. This sounds like the beginning of the end of this otherwise perfect OS. Now tell me that they'll redesign the API to look like the Symbian academic-style sh*t and I'll switch to using calculators as nothing really worth it left out there. Psion went down, PPC/WinCE is out of question, Symbian is worthless, and now Palm is heading the same direction.

RE: Core Apps

asiayeah @ 9/24/2003 5:04:25 AM #

Palm OS 6 will remove the 4k memo limit as well as the 15-category limit.

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Core Apps

helf @ 9/24/2003 9:21:18 AM #

braichef : hehe.. ti89 calcs are really nice.. :P

RE: Core Apps

JKingGrim @ 9/24/2003 12:02:53 PM #

No direct screen access at all 'eh? That kinda sucks :|

No direct screen access is not bad. Its good. You know those apps that worked on 160x160 but only appear in a small box in the corner on hires screens? This happens because the app is attempting direct screen access. Has it ever happened to you on windows when a video is playing on a media player, and then you try to switch to another app, but the video still plays on top? The media player was attempting direct screen access. Without direct access, apps can still write to the screen, they just cannot write directly to the system buffer. There is ABSOLUTELY NO loss of functionality.

RE: Core Apps

arielb @ 9/24/2003 3:31:06 PM #

it's a sad but inevitable reality that we need to compromise in order to get security. We'll need firewalls for our PDAs since they are increasingly being connected to the internet. There are even anti-virus programs for the 2 viruses out there!

RE: Core Apps

mikecane @ 9/24/2003 7:13:11 PM #

And won't no coding access to the screen mean that PalmSource is actually looking forward to screen resolutions *higher* than 320x480?

PalmOS Tablets?

RE: Core Apps

vixensjlin @ 9/24/2003 8:40:18 PM #

Scott R:

For your first wish:

Try HappyDays. It is free, it works very well for annv. days and birthdays. It connects Datebook and Address book very well, remainds you as wish.

RE: Core Apps

Scott R @ 9/24/2003 8:48:32 PM #

"Try HappyDays. It is free, it works very well for annv. days and birthdays. It connects Datebook and Address book very well, remainds you as wish."

Thanks. I already use that. The problem is that this doesn't automatically sync with your calendar. It requires an extra step for you to run HappyDays and have it automatically update your calendar for birthdays.

On the PPC, if I add a new contact and fill out the birthday field, the birthday will automagically pop up when that day comes around.

Scott

http://TapLand.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

Birthdays

Lucky Dragon @ 1/6/2004 2:01:23 PM #

"On the PPC, if I add a new contact and fill out the birthday field, the birthday will automagically pop up when that day comes around."

My Tungsten T3 works the same way: When I set up a new address book record, I can add in the person's birthday and it will program a reminder in Date Book automatically... I suspect they will they add this functionality into OS6 as well.

RE: Core Apps

smith847be @ 1/6/2004 5:42:47 PM #

Scott R: Note: PalmOS 5.2 series has a calendar-tied birthday field in the address book. Unfortunately, however, that is the only date field (no anniversary, etc).

Native files support?

Konstantin @ 9/23/2003 3:45:52 PM #

Did I missed it or there is nothing said about native file support in PalmOS 6 ?

RE: Native files support?

Admin @ 9/23/2003 3:56:13 PM #

I'm not at the conference so I'm relying on outside reports.
Is there anyone there that can post what is going on?

RE: Native files support?

hotpaw4 @ 9/23/2003 4:03:02 PM #

Several VFS aware applications already support "native" (to Windows?) files (for JPG's, word docs, etc.). And there's already a RAMdisk app which allows one to have a virtual VFS card in storage memory, IIRC.

RE: Native files support?

helf @ 9/23/2003 5:34:39 PM #

yes yes, we know that. we are talking about native supprot for files in RAM with no 3rd party help. I could careless about this, but tons of people want it.

As long as I don't have to start putting "dlls" in a system folder and an app in anotehr then ill be happy.. :P

RE: Native files support?

JKingGrim @ 9/24/2003 12:10:12 PM #

Don't rule it out just because its not mentioned. Im keeping my fingers crossed.

RE: Native files support?

ganoe @ 9/24/2003 1:27:09 PM #

> Don't rule it out just because its not mentioned.
> Im keeping my fingers crossed.

Well don't hurt yourself doing it. If you really had to buy a third party app for it (like already exists), would it be that difficult???

RE: Native files support?

JKingGrim @ 9/25/2003 8:00:42 PM #

Yes it would. Those third party apps don't actually make the entire RAM a real file system. They set aside a portion of the RAM that imitates a file system. To give the entire RAM a file system with real files and folders would confuse every single POS app that asumes the RAM is just a list of databases. With the help of PACE, it probably can be done in a way that will not render all current apps useless, but it requires much thinking.

RE: Native files support?

bcombee @ 9/26/2003 5:30:17 AM #

I was thinking about this problem earlier. It is technically possible to make a VFS volume driver that would expose a subset of the Palm OS device's databases as files in a single folder. Since Palm OS 3, there has been a file streaming API that lets you treat special databases as files. This is used internally by the beaming system to hold data while its being received, and apps like Palm Photos (on the Z71 and T|C) store JPEG files as file streams.

This could be an interesting program to write. It wouldn't have the dedicated storage issue that a RAM disk driver has, but figuring out a way to expose the flat Palm OS DB list as a directory structure may be difficult, but if you use a meta database to hold directory settings or store the info in the file stream's AppInfo block, it could work.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: Native files support?

ganoe @ 9/29/2003 1:06:33 PM #

> They set aside a portion of the RAM that imitates a file system.

If it looks and smells like a file system, it is a file system.

> To give the entire RAM a file system with real files and folders would
> confuse every single POS app that asumes the RAM is just a list of databases.

Uh ... not necessarily (since you'd be changing the OS in the process anyhow), but what's your point? Databases aren't "files" in the abstract sense, and there's no reason to treat them as such (especially since there's already functionality to beam them and copy them to/from regular files). So why in the world would you want them in a user accessable file space??? Do you really have some great need to put your address book database in an "Addresses" folder?

UPDATE

bluecat @ 9/23/2003 4:29:03 PM #

Hope that 6.0 will work on my ol' Tungsten. Would be nice..... Will there be an upgrade.... anyone?

RE: UPDATE

crustyedgeofinnovation @ 9/23/2003 4:41:25 PM #

i hope so

www.departmentofcomfort.com

RE: UPDATE

hucsman @ 9/23/2003 5:03:52 PM #

Well, upgrading will be entirely up to palmone. I do believe that they have a good record on providing OS upgrades for their consumers of older devices, plus any ARM device should be able to technically be upgraded. I think the only major upgrade they didn´t offer was from OS4.1 to OS5 but that is because it is impossible hardwarewise. Of course, that was way before when palmsource and palmone were not independent of each other. Maybe someone could give them a call and see what they have to say about 5 to 6 upgrade? (I can´t, I don´t live in the US).

RE: UPDATE

Scott R @ 9/23/2003 7:23:41 PM #

"I do believe that they have a good record on providing OS upgrades for their consumers of older devices..."

Actually, that used to be the case, but no more. How long was OS5.1 out for, and was an upgrade ever offered for the Tungsten T? OS5.2 is out for a while now and I haven't heard about updates to that either.

Scott

http://TapLand.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: UPDATE

Dmitri_J @ 9/24/2003 3:53:17 AM #

I think it's not good to announce new OS without chance to upgrade from the current one. I want to by new PDA, but I have to be sure in this opportunity.

I wish you good hangover.

accessories

midtoad @ 9/23/2003 5:04:48 PM #

Maybe by the time they release PalmOS 6, the drivers will be out for hardware accessories to support PalmOS 5 !

Seriously, PalmOS 5 was released in June 2002 and there are *still* lots of accessories (e.g. PocketTop keyboard, Micro Innovations keyboard, Logitech keyboard, Targus thumbboard) that do not support it, and thus can't be used on Tungsten models.

Palm isn't doing a very good job of bringing along the builders of accesories.

Stewart Midwinter
PDA user since 1992 (Sharp PC-3100)
Palm Tungsten T, Handera HE330 and Compaq Aero 2110

RE: accessories

Arturus1 @ 9/23/2003 6:07:58 PM #

I'd agree with this. I would like to buy a keyboard based on Microwriting tecnology - but the IR link it uses won't work at all with OS 5, worked fine with the 500 series...

RE: accessories

bcombee @ 9/23/2003 10:22:57 PM #

David Fedor's talk indicated that drivers will be easier to write for OS 6, based on a UNIX driver model called STREAMS. For OS 5, you basically need to be a Palm OS Ready partner or a licensee to write drivers for the device, since you need a lot of private info that's not documented in the public SDKs.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

OS 5 was just a stopgap

Faux Plastic @ 9/24/2003 12:55:36 PM #

That's why the start money was in holding onto a 4.x device and waiting for OS 6. From the very moment OS 5 was announced, OS 6 was, too, and everyone knew that 5 was merely a transitional OS that wouldn't be around too long. Me and my beleagured NR70 are pleased to see that things are moving right along.

I think a lot of developers felt the same way and decided to just wait for 6.

RE: accessories

grantb4 @ 9/24/2003 1:35:07 PM #

There is no reason the keyboards can't be fixed to work with OS5. Admittedly it's a PITA, but we have written drivers that work for the Sony and Palm OS5 devices (they are IR, but serial ports ones should be even easier -- the Stowaway has an OS5 one working I believe).

Where's the upgrade?

peitron @ 9/23/2003 5:59:04 PM #

I'm still waiting for the OS 5.2 upgrade for my Palm TT!

_____________________________________________
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

RE: Where's the upgrade?

mikecane @ 9/23/2003 6:13:18 PM #

It's out! It's called the TT2. (Couldn't resist. The pain of early adopting!)

RE: Where's the upgrade?

peitron @ 9/23/2003 6:16:12 PM #

No way! Then I'd have to go out and buy T3 sometime in the next two months. I promised my wife that the T would last at least 18 months... Must be strong... Must resist...

_____________________________________________
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

RE: Where's the upgrade?

mikecane @ 9/23/2003 6:30:11 PM #

Must be strong? Must resist?! HAH!

Must *EBAY* the TT!

Can't resist that TT3, baby!

RE: Where's the upgrade?

Foo Fighter @ 9/23/2003 6:34:35 PM #

Quote: "Can't resist that TT3, baby!"

I just ordered mine.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: Where's the upgrade?

peitron @ 9/23/2003 6:47:40 PM #

I need my TT3! Must resist... Can't compute... Argh!

Pic of the TT3 and TE at http://tech.sina.com.cn/other/2003-09-11/1400231893.shtml

_____________________________________________
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

RE: Where's the upgrade?

GHaavy @ 9/23/2003 7:31:38 PM #

FOO! Buddy,

Where did you order it from?

telme, tellme, tellme

[slap!]

I'm just barely hangin' on here, man.

I'm not a smartass in real life, I just portray one on the web.

RE: Where's the upgrade?

mikecane @ 9/23/2003 7:37:33 PM #

>>fainting<<

Foo, the Arch Enemy of the Tungsten Slider, has ORDERED a TT3?!

Hmmm... just when Sony will announce the NON-sliding "T770" tomorrow. (KIDDING!!!)

RE: Where's the upgrade?

flevy @ 9/23/2003 7:39:45 PM #

Also check picture of T3 on

http://www.pdaclub.pl/view.php?news_id=6908

RE: Where's the upgrade?

mikecane @ 9/23/2003 7:46:40 PM #

From the other camp...

http://tinyurl.com/ofgs

VGA? How 20th century... >snort<

RE: Where's the upgrade?

Foo Fighter @ 9/23/2003 7:59:58 PM #

Quote: "FOO! Buddy, Where did you order it from?"

Office Depot.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: Where's the upgrade?

GHaavy @ 9/23/2003 8:01:04 PM #

Foo,
I couldn't figure out if I should thank you first, or rush out to the car and head for.. oh, right... van... ugh... family van... clothes for the little ones... food for the table... right.

[sigh]

Thanks, Foo Fighter.

Damn you, Reality!

I'm not a smartass in real life, I just portray one on the web.

RE: Where's the upgrade?

Foo Fighter @ 9/23/2003 8:02:31 PM #

Quote: "Foo, the Arch Enemy of the Tungsten Slider, has ORDERED a TT3?!"

Yes, and I still haven't changed my mind about the slider. I don't like it one damn bit. But I am willing to give this a shot because the T3 is just tooooo tempting!

Quote: "Hmmm... just when Sony will announce the NON-sliding "T770" tomorrow. (KIDDING!!!)"

Ha! If that happens I'm going to hang myself with a USB cable.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: Where's the upgrade?

sub_tex @ 9/23/2003 8:33:17 PM #

----------------
Foo said:
"Yes, and I still haven't changed my mind about the slider. I don't like it one damn bit."
----------------

Wait, so you'll have both a Zodiac AND the T3??

>:(

*looks at own N610C with anger. . .*

RE: Where's the upgrade?

Foo Fighter @ 9/23/2003 8:40:31 PM #

Quote: "Wait, so you'll have both a Zodiac AND the T3??"

Only briefly. I'll pick which one suits me best and ebay the other.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: Where's the upgrade?

ozz @ 9/24/2003 12:17:14 AM #

Ebay is a verb? Ha! I love it.

RE: Where's the upgrade?

gfunkmagic @ 9/24/2003 3:29:51 AM #

Quote:
"From the other camp...

http://tinyurl.com/ofgs

VGA? How 20th century... >snort<"
__________________

Actually, the e805 won't have a VGA screen afterall...

http://tinyurl.com/oi3q

Visit http://goodthatway.com/
-better living through better technology.

Toshiba 800? 640x480?

a3 @ 9/24/2003 8:46:39 AM #

Mike: Is that thing for real? if it is they're going to get ahead...

Anyway, I'm leaving... gotta go to office depot to order my TT3!!!

____________________________________________
Former Tapwave's Helix fan, now a T|T3 fan.

RE: Where's the upgrade?

mikecane @ 9/24/2003 9:16:11 AM #

As was pointed out in the post just above yours, that new Toshi will *NOT* have a VGA screen.

So basically what they are doing is taking the old gorgeous GENIO e and updating it in an UGLY case.

RE: Where's the upgrade?

arielb @ 9/24/2003 10:30:09 AM #

i knew it was unlikely for toshiba to go to 640x480. It would have meant OS support and unlike Sony, toshiba can't do much with the OS they were given

RE: Where's the upgrade?

mikecane @ 9/24/2003 10:38:39 AM #

Poor Toshiba. Should've gotten a PalmOS license! Hah!

RE: Where's the upgrade?

arielb @ 9/24/2003 10:46:42 AM #

yeah if sony was able to move from 160x160 to 320x320 to 320x480 to 480x320 then I certainly expect them to take the next step. Especially since the new zaurus does support vga
http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus7xx/index.shtml

RE: Where's the upgrade?

a3 @ 9/24/2003 12:52:39 PM #

Thanks for your answers!

Now, is it me or that Zaurus posted by arielb is exactly the same as Sony's UX series. I wonder who cheated who!

Don't bother going to office depot, there is no T|T3 there...

____________________________________________
Former Tapwave's Helix fan, now a T|T3 fan.

RE: Where's the upgrade?

Timothy Rapson @ 9/24/2003 1:55:33 PM #

Initial user report on the T3 from PDA Planet user:

"From Gavin-

I have just bought the TT3. I have powered it up. 1st impressions are amazing.

In rom - Quick Tour, Calc, Calendar, Card Info, Contacts, Dialer, Docs2go v6, Expense, Hotsync, Kinoma, Memos, Notepad, Phonelink, Photos, Prefs, RealOne, SMS, Tasks, Versamail, Voicememo, World Clock . This is the European model.It has 51.6mb free of RAM. With slider closed virtual buttons at bottom of screen, 9 in total include, Home, Find, Menu, Time, !, Bluetooth, a squiggle, portrait/landscape, hires . Slider opened these drop to bottom. When using apps these are always present.

Slider open virtual buttons include, Home, Docs2Go, Versamail and Photos.Preferences are updated.Lefty control, keylock etc..Screen colour is awesome. MP3 volume is loud now.Full report later."

Sound good Foo?(pardon the pun)

RE: Where's the upgrade?

mikecane @ 9/24/2003 7:15:32 PM #

Timothy -- that TT3 report is posted right here in PIC's Palm Inc. forum!

http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16873

Java VM

ganoe @ 9/23/2003 7:26:07 PM #

Any more info on the Java VM? Is this coming from PalmSource, or is it the same IBM MIDP one that's coming from PalmOne?

RE: Java VM

gfunkmagic @ 9/24/2003 3:31:02 AM #

yes, check this story out...will arrive later thsi year

Visit http://goodthatway.com/
-better living through better technology.

RE: Java VM

ganoe @ 9/24/2003 7:30:15 AM #

> check this story out...

Huh?!? Check what story out? The site you linked to is just some other general PDA website.

RE: Java VM

gfunkmagic @ 9/24/2003 3:52:32 PM #

oops.. I acidently didn't post the link...anyway, PIC reported the story on the front page today. Check it out. Cheers!

Visit http://goodthatway.com/
-better living through better technology.

RE: Java VM

ganoe @ 9/24/2003 10:40:32 PM #

> PIC reported the story on the front page today.

That VM is coming from PalmOne and is just (licensed) for the Tungsten series (and I mentioned it in my original question). This story is from a PalmSource developer seminar and talks about a reference Java VM for OS 6. My specific question was if this reference VM from PalmSource is the same or different than the IBM one from PalmOne?

Do I need to repeat my question a third time?

....ooooohhh.....Sahara!

treo007 @ 9/23/2003 7:30:08 PM #

Must these geeks always use "code names"? Jeez...it's a PDA operating system, not an invasion plan.

RE: ....ooooohhh.....Sahara!

helf @ 9/23/2003 7:35:06 PM #

What, you want them to call it "beta os 6 alpha version 14.658938 build 34382.2235 update 49" ? ;)

least they didnt pick some really dumb name like "longhorn"....

RE: ....ooooohhh.....Sahara!

mikecane @ 9/23/2003 7:38:47 PM #

Or a chip name like "Bulverde" (what's that coming out of a bull?)...

RE: ....ooooohhh.....Sahara!

treo007 @ 9/23/2003 11:53:44 PM #

Quote: "What, you want them to call it "beta os 6 alpha version 14.658938 build 34382.2235 update 49" ? ;)"

How about Palm OS 6.0?

RE: ....ooooohhh.....Sahara!

Konstantin @ 9/24/2003 4:19:57 PM #

Actualy Sahara is a codename for the whole project and PalmOS 6 is the actual OS release

RE: ....ooooohhh.....Sahara!

treo007 @ 9/24/2003 10:51:39 PM #

OK, so call the project Palm OS 6.0 to coincide with the release. This is what happens when organizations(tech companies) are run by people that play with Star Wars action figures.

RE: ....ooooohhh.....Sahara!

bcombee @ 9/25/2003 12:35:15 AM #

Actually, there is a very good reason for a corporate body to use codenames. It allows them to refer to projects before deciding on an official name. For example, you could have three teams all doing different designs to meet a market segment, and you would later pick the strongest design and give it the "market-friendly" name. Code names are also ways to detect information leaks; if your dev team uses a code name rather than the expected name and you see that name used in the outside world, you know that information is leaking out of the group.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: ....ooooohhh.....Sahara!

treo007 @ 9/25/2003 4:04:09 AM #

OK, so call them project A, project B, project C, etc!

Look, I know this is isn't really important in the grand scheme of things, but I just can't handle hearing dorks bandy about terms like Longhorn, Talisker, Sahara, whatever. It looks self important.

RE: ....ooooohhh.....Sahara!

mikecane @ 9/27/2003 5:18:08 PM #

>>>Look, I know this is isn't really important in the grand scheme of things, but I just can't handle hearing dorks bandy about terms like Longhorn, Talisker, Sahara, whatever. It looks self important.

All that from someone who goes by "Treo007" here.

And he doesn't even realize it!

Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

Jacques T @ 9/23/2003 9:05:31 PM #

Why do we need PPC style memory hogging, CPU slowing, system crashing multi-tasking? OS 5 already can do something of multi-tasking like playing MP3s in the background. I don't want OS 6 to become a clone of WM2003, and where I have to continually shut down apps in order to free RAM and lighten the load on the CPU. Why do we need "true" multi-tasking on small mobile CPUs anyways? The forefront app is the only one of interest and all of the PDA's ressources should be focused on it. Can anyone give me examples as to why PPC style multi-tasking is cool? My HP2210 "true multi-tasking" is nothing but a pain in the *BEEP*.

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

acaltabiano @ 9/23/2003 9:44:56 PM #

I will give you a prime example from my experience: I have splashmoney and use it to input ALL my finances, even pay-at-the-pump. My AAA visa offers 5% cash back on these purchases. Quick!! what's 5% of 24.39 rounded to the nearest cent!! oh, not fast enough... Could you have opened the calculator, computed this (it is $1.22 by the way), and opened Splashmoney agian to input this rebate, you would already have been done.
Can't do that. Must open calculator, which closes out Splashmoney (takes a while on m515), then go back to launcher(which takes a while to do on an m515) and open splashmoney again (which takes a while to do on an m515).

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

Jacques T @ 9/23/2003 9:54:47 PM #

I think you may be wrong. I was just playing Warfare Inc on my T|T. I just returned to the "Desktop", opened my calculator then went back to Warfare Inc and the game took off from where I left off. Palm OS 5 apps are "froze" in memory and not closed when flipping between programs in RAM.

Tip: 5nav launcher is simply a blessing for flying through many programs.

The Tungsten T|3's buttons seem awsome for gaming. Looks like a revolutionary PDA is coming our way on Oct 1! Woohoo!!

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

antikryst @ 9/23/2003 10:07:21 PM #

theres such a thing as pop up calculators and notepads so you dont have to close an application just to compute or write down something. :)

dont think i need multitasking as of yet...thats why i still have my workpad C3

but who knows..

hehehe i want the T3

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

grg @ 9/23/2003 11:33:29 PM #

How about a web browser downloading/rendering a page while yuo do something else ?

What I really need is:
1) Unicode
2) Java
3) Graffiti 1
4) Native file support
5) proxy-less browser

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

Galley_SimRacer @ 9/24/2003 1:37:59 AM #

I wanna see the Opera browser for PalmOS 6.

--
"Life is what you experience between racing games"
Galley

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

treo007 @ 9/24/2003 2:31:38 AM #

When it comes to implementing multi-tasking, the key for Palm is execution. PPC's had it since the beginning, but yes it's help make that bloated OS that much more unstable. I think Symbian's got it in some manner of fashion and it's supposedly rock solid.

I would like to have it for a couple of reasons:

1) Downloading email, IM's, and web pages in the background while doing something else would truly be great.

2) Being able to run a Palm based GPS and map application in my car while looking up and/or dialing a contact, or looking up an address, or I guess doing anything else for that matter.

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

helf @ 9/24/2003 9:31:45 AM #

Multitasking on my psion s5 is quite stable.. never have had a crash and very rarely does it slow even with 15 apps running.

Plus os6 devices will, I'm sure, have 16 meg or larger heaps. Apps will be using all of that and not your ram iirc. So we shouldnt have many of the probs ppc has.

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

hkklife @ 9/24/2003 9:43:07 AM #

Please, someone release a stable, FAST (not Tealscript!) Graffiti 1 plug-in. I'll pay for it. I'll *GLADLY* pay for it, even at the exhorbitant prices charged by many Palm developers for otherwise uesless litle utilities and games.

Xerox could stand to make some--ta-da--easy money here! Last I checked, the corporate coffers needed some replenishment. Sure, many users are happy with G2 but I'd wager that the vast majority of the long-time users like myself (going on 7 years now of P OS and Graffiti 1 usage) would gladly cough up some extra dough. Windows Media Player 9 doesn't support mp3 encoding in its default state, but there are plenty of $10 or so plugins you can download if you prefer MP3 over WMA. They also have DVD decoding codec plugins for DLable purchase as well.

Palm & Xerox need to get with it and work something out to put everyone (themselves and users) in a win-win situation instead of continued litigation!

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

mikecane @ 9/24/2003 10:03:11 AM #

I'll second that sentiment.

I *despise* G2!

And while we're at this business...

...I want Decuma Latin for PalmOne devices too! I'll pay for it as an add-on if it can't be built-in. I *love* Decuma!

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

Altema @ 9/24/2003 10:21:58 AM #

"I *despise* G2!"

Mike, anyone know if the graffit 1 replacement trick works on the T3? Probably not with the new screen api.

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

sub_tex @ 9/24/2003 10:35:31 AM #

"I want Decuma Latin for PalmOne devices too! I'll pay for it as an add-on if it can't be built-in. I *love* Decuma!"

I second that. Playing with it on the Clies at CUSA has made me a believer. It's the best handwriting input method I've used yet.

G1 on TT3?

mikecane @ 9/24/2003 10:36:06 AM #

I don't know. We'll have to wait for someone to try it. That fellow who got the early Tungsten E said he put G1 on his TE.

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

sub_tex @ 9/24/2003 11:36:50 AM #

The G1 hack should work fine on the T3. I don't see why it wouldn't.

BTW, if you go into CUSA, check out the ultra thin palm keyboard that's hanging by the laptops. The pic on the front shows the T|E. Looks like that device will be a good seller with the low price point it is said to debut with.

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

Kodiak @ 9/24/2003 11:54:22 AM #

"I want Decuma Latin for PalmOne devices too! I'll pay for it as an add-on if it can't be built-in. I *love* Decuma!"

I say amen to that! Decuma latin is easily the best input system out there, bar none.

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

arielb @ 9/24/2003 1:52:17 PM #

i haven't tried decuma. but isn't it print only? if it was cursive you'd be able to write much faster

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

helf @ 9/24/2003 5:47:57 PM #

who is the guy that got an early TE??

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

mikecane @ 9/24/2003 7:18:39 PM #

See TE report linked here:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16813

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

ganoe @ 9/24/2003 10:47:48 PM #

> I wanna see the Opera browser for PalmOS 6.

I just thought that comment was worth repeating.

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

iebnn @ 9/25/2003 8:32:56 AM #

OS5 apps aren't frozen in memory or anything. They work the same as OS4 apps in that respect -- it's just the app saving its state before it exits, then restoring it when you return to it. Not all apps do this, and OS5 doesn't do this automatically.

I'm sure Palm will handle multitasking better than Microsoft did with PPC.

Oh, and you can use DA's for something like a calculator opening in the app you're already in (pseudo multi tasking)

RE: Palm OS 6 w/ multi-tasking = PPC style slowdowns?

shurcooL @ 9/26/2003 9:02:02 PM #

taken from a Sony Clie UX-50 review from cliesource.com forums:

[i]"The mic is pretty good, easily picking up most of the conversation when left on a boardroom table. There's also no limit for time here (that I've ever hit), so it's pretty trivial to just record a whole meeting. The only complaint is that I don't think you can do background recording (ie, the clie isn't useable while it's recording). Thus, unless you have a laptop at meetings, (so you won't need to look anything up on the clie) this might not be so good."[/i]

'nuff said.

thanks,
shurcooL

Wow!

jbarr @ 9/24/2003 11:37:33 AM #

That'll give Sony ample opportunity to release several dozen or so new models! ;-)

RE: Wow!

ganoe @ 9/24/2003 12:08:04 PM #

You mean before December 29 right? ;)

Clipboard limit?

Electricus @ 9/25/2003 8:12:09 AM #

Will this problem be resolved with OS6? It's really frustrating performing a series of cuts and pastes. Unlimited clipboard -- or at least something much bigger -- would be great.

Beer!
JeffT

RE: Clipboard limit?

mikecane @ 9/27/2003 5:20:02 PM #

Hear, hear!!

Unicode Support?

tsubasaozora @ 9/25/2003 9:38:03 PM #

I am a Clie user uses palm to store my text in English/Chinese/Japanese.

Any light that future OS will include native unicode support?

As of now, anybody knows how palm handles unicode html page or emails?

Garnett (Tungsten T5) vs. Cobalt

tekhnogod @ 10/27/2004 5:46:19 PM #

I've read the Cobalt preview from this site and it really doesn't persuade me in anyway to wait for a Cobalt powered Palm device. I may have missed something but all it seems to offer is multitasking. All other things can be supplemented by software add-ons. Native 320x320 resolution? built in bluetooth? better security? This is great and all for the developers. But what does the common consumer like myself benefit from this? Nothing that I can see. But to clarify what kind of consumer I am. I just want something that has bluetooth (can't use 802.11b, it interferes with my 2.4ghz cordless phones), plays mp3s, organize my schedule and view spreadsheets. And of course something that is pocketable....meaning no pocket pc! Some of those pocket pcs have a VGA resolution....what are they thinking which part of "pocket" pc they dont understand. If I wanted to travel with a computer that has a large screen, why dont I just bring along my IBM T40?

RE: Garnett (Tungsten T5) vs. Cobalt

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/27/2004 11:13:42 PM #

I just want something that has bluetooth (can't use 802.11b, it interferes with my 2.4ghz cordless phones), plays mp3s, organize my schedule and view spreadsheets. And of course something that is pocketable

http://www.expansys-usa.com/product.asp?code=TH55

Cobalt would have been nice if Palm could have pulled it off a year ago and shipped it with some decent hardware wrapped around the OS. But Cobalt wasn't ready for prime time. Now it's too late for Cobalt to make much of an impact and PPC has gained enough momentum that it's now becoming yet another Microsoft Steamroller.

The way things are going, Cobalt may go down in history as the next BeOS or Amiga.

******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Garnett (Tungsten T5) vs. Cobalt

Surur @ 6/15/2005 6:00:15 AM #

I wonder what PDA you have currently. If you tell us we can objectively compare the size to other available devices.

Otherwise you may just be talking from preconceptions.

Many people make the point that the LifeDrive is the same size as the old Visor's. Yet when Visor's were around people were satisfied to carry them. Now the LifeDrive is an unmanageable brick.

So what are you carrying? If its a very old Palm it might be quite big, and if its a recent Palm it might be quite big too.

Surur