Comments on: SanDisk Elaborates on Wi-Fi Driver Delay

SanDisk has recently elaborated on some of the reasons behind the continuing delay of the Palm OS Wi-Fi SD card driver. The driver has been delayed four times since first being announced a year ago and is now not expected until Q1 2004.
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Too bad...

davidtcollett @ 12/11/2003 7:00:15 PM #
First post :)

Too bad, I really wanted a SD wifi card soon. Guess I will have to pick up a Tungsten C, or wait for a C2...

RE: Too bad...
Gar @ 12/11/2003 7:26:28 PM #
Do you think it is because there is no future in 802.11? Nah... but Intel sure took a nice right off due to is't wireless losses. Just kidding on the no future of wireless, but it really is a hit and miss industry, isn't it?!

-----------------
My wife has to sell a lot of candles (www.ccandles.com) to buy her new Palm.
RE: Too bad...
mj6798 @ 12/12/2003 8:41:41 AM #
802.11 is not synonymous with wireless. In fact, 802.11 has a lot of problems: broken security, difficult configuration, no simple point-to-point mode, and high power consumption are some of them. Bluetooth is better in just about every respect for many handheld applications.

RE: Too bad...
palmit @ 12/12/2003 1:32:05 PM #
What about Bluetooth's limited range? As far as 802.11, its easy to configure, working on new security standards, and supports adhoc mode.

RE: Too bad...
Altema @ 12/12/2003 2:06:10 PM #
"What about Bluetooth's limited range?"

And speed. However, I've found that the bottleneck for speed is usually my connection to the net for my access point, unless I'm at work on a T1. Not a problem unless I'm web surfing in full desktop mode with the graphics set to "best". Regarding the range, 328 feet is certainly comparable to wi-fi, but you need both your AP and handheld to be BT class 1 devices. Typical range for BT class 2 is 35 feet. The Palm T series use class 2 radios but the range varies depending on the model. My original T had a working range of about 15 to 20 feet, but my current T3 is good for up to 50 feet with about 3 walls in the way (drywall, not wet plaster). This range is good for most anywhere in the house, but forget the backyard!

RE: Too bad...
Altema @ 12/12/2003 2:23:31 PM #
PS: Just so no one assumes that class 1 devices will work only with other class 1 devices, you can mix and match different BT devices, but the range will be limited by the weakest device.

For example, my BT access point is class 1, my T3 is class 2, my phone is class 2, and my headset is class 1. All of them play nicely with each other :)

RE: Too bad...
mmmarkiep @ 12/15/2003 4:34:13 PM #
The Which Is Better debate reminds me of the Apple vs. Microsoft debate. Regardless of which is better (and that largely depends on usage and personal preference), the fact remains that in the U.S. WiFi has the larger presence.

Even if you include a bluetooth phone into the equation, the GSM/GPRS networks in the US aren't built out enough to make it a viable solution for many people. A combination of the two, which I believe is what many of us were counting on this card for, approaches a more ideal solution.

The Truth?

Verteron @ 12/11/2003 8:32:32 PM #
If this is the full story (and it sounds reasonable...) then it seems to shift some of the blame from SanDisk on to Palm, for not building devices that can power SDIO cards properly and not sorting out driver licensing.

If they really want to beat Microsoft then I think it's rather important that drivers are easy to write. It seems this is going to change significantly with POS6 and it's new UNIX-style driver design. I hope. We'll see December 30th when the code goes gold I guess (five days after I unwrap my POS5 T|T3...).

RE: The Truth?
Khris @ 12/12/2003 8:51:22 AM #
The entire foundation which Palm devices were built upon is to be simplistic, easy to use, long lasting and dependable.

I'm guessing that Palm went with Bluetooth from the beginning rather then Wi-Fi due to the overall power consumption, hence keeping with their original founding view of long lasting (battiers that didn't get killed after 5 minutes of use).

To blame Palm for making a device "not up to wi-fi power standards" is just shifting the blame from one to another, it's a cop-out.

Let's *all* play the Blame Game...
RAMdŽd @ 12/12/2003 9:49:11 AM #
...and not sorting out driver licensing....

It certainly doesn't cost anything to make WAGs as to who's at fault.

But where licensing issues are concerned, there are at least two parties involved..

Or maybe it *is* Palm's fault for not throwing countless millions (they've got deep pockets, right?) at any and all parties concerned, and giving them percentage concessions, to. Why not, it's only money.

Geeeeze I wish I knew as much about running a business as some of the experts here.


______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

Yeah, and where's my wifi memory schtick?

Hal2000 @ 12/11/2003 9:22:01 PM #
Great,first a wifi delay for my Zodiac, and still no wifi for my tg50.Hey morons, are you listening? These will be bought in a heartbeat. Legal Schmegal, work it out. I can't get laid with a laptop in a twin bed.Hmmm, this delay could give "my handheld" a new meaning.

"One hour martinizing! Who is this guy martin anyhow?"

Enfora case

EthiopianFlash @ 12/11/2003 10:29:55 PM #
Has any one tried the Enfora case?
If so how do you like it?

SJ30 > T|T3
RE: Enfora case
madhatter @ 12/12/2003 10:54:24 AM #
I have the enfora case and use it with a T3. I have been using it for about a week, and it has good and bad about it..

First, there is an issue with a slightly loose connection with my T3. Enfora has included a little "button which sticks to the back of the PDA and then that holds the PDA in the case ( sort of a velco patch, but using larger "hooks"). I do lose connectivity when the PDA seems to wiggle loose. It is also not as fast as Tungsten C as there is a limit to how fast data can come in through the Universal Connector.

Also there is an incompatibility between Webpro and the enfora case. I can use Endoraweb software, but not the webpro. Blazer also locks up for some reason. Enfora is aware of the matter and is getting a fix on it. On a positive note, the Versamail program works great.

Even though it has some issues, I really do like using it. It lasts a long time between charges ( I can usually get an entire day even with heavy usage) and it does protect my pda. Also, my wife can use her Zire71 with it as well.

A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.

RE: Enfora case
TimSt @ 12/12/2003 1:58:45 PM #
My Enfora case has worked flawlessly with WebPro on my T3.

RE: Enfora case
mikecane @ 12/13/2003 3:13:17 PM #
Has anyone posted a variety of websites shown on the T3 sreen via WiFi?

Here's more on the Enfora:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?X15121DC6

-- with PICTURES (oooooh!).

Search for Enfora there and you will also see a picture of it being used with the Palm Wireless Keyboard! And the Tip Top Secret (unless you RTFM!) keyboard command to change screen orientation without using the stylus!

Hmmmmmmmm

RhinoSteve @ 12/11/2003 11:13:19 PM #
While there is some armwaving here, I see a lot of "port from PC" mindset here by needing CPU speeds and power consumptions. I still think there is more to this than what is being said and won't come out if someone supenas engineering documents. I highly doubt if a supena happens.

Concerning licensing, yup I can see that but man, this is no excuse to delay a project a year unless someone got short of budget really quick. Also, from the outside, IMO this project screames high turnover of developers and someone walked away with expertise that slowed the project to a crawl about six months ago. (i.e. Some network driver hotshot wasn't dealt right, he left and the floor fell out.)

This happened to one particular Bluetooth stack company a year or so ago.

How Come SONY can????

GearHead @ 12/12/2003 12:20:12 AM #
This is sucks! I am hoping to have a slick Palm with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. That'sall I want. Don't care for the camera or any other useless stuff. I don't wanna buy a UXG-50 come on guys just rev up those brains and bring this long waited Tungsten T4 or C2 whatever the hell you call!

I really don't wanna switch to Pocket PC like a HP h4150 device or something.

I have very little credit left for Palm on this Wi-Fi issue!

O hope this would wake those Palm Boyz up.

Who I am?

I'm the loyal Palm User since 96 I bought almost all the Palm models. But without Wi-Fi come on this is becoming really annoying!!!

Free 802.11 No More Wires!!!
Support your local WAN!

SanDisk sold out to M$

Konstantin @ 12/12/2003 1:48:00 AM #
Patethic excuses actualy, real problem is M$ no doubt.
With a little bit of evidence about this 'yet another monopolistic behavior from M$' and a new case could be formed.

More of the Blame Game...
RAMdŽd @ 12/12/2003 9:56:55 AM #
Show us some of your evidence.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

Aha! I

Alric @ 12/12/2003 9:21:20 AM #
I knew Palm was somehow involved in the delay! Who would buy a T|C when you can get a T1 or T2 for cheaper and have Wi-Fi AND bluetooth.

My guess is that Palm's next device is either a T|4 with Wi-fi, a T|C with bluetooth or both..

Cheers,

RE: Aha! I
JonathanChoo @ 12/12/2003 9:33:06 AM #
The problem belongs to PalmSource and not PalmOne. I am sure PalmSource would want the drivers out asap too.

However this really sucks for those who need WiFi on their SDIO enabled OS5 PDAs...luckily I am not one. However for those with OS4 UC Palm devices I would recommend you to hunt down Xircom (now Intel) WiFi sled with built in battery.

Generic Casio > Psion 5/StarTac > Vx > m505 > Sony N770C > Sony T625C/Ericsson T39m > Sony NR70V > Toshiba e310 > Tungsten T/Ericsson T68m > HP h2210 > Tungsten T3/Ericsson T610

RAMdŽd @ 12/12/2003 9:58:41 AM #
I am sure PalmSource would want the drivers out asap too.

I agree. There is no conspiracy to sell T|Cs instead of SD W-Fi cards. It's an additional source of revenue, not a competeing one.


However this really sucks for those who need WiFi on their SDIO enabled OS5 PDAs

Well, I think "Maybe." on that one. If someone really (and I mean really) needed a Wi-Fi-ed PDA, why not buy one that is Wi-Fi-ed, instead of buying one assuming that one day there will be a card..

And while many may benefit from Wi-Fi on a PDA, I question the wisdom of putting one's self in the position of actually needing it and ending up not having it.

But as a cool, power sucking feature, I'd like to have a card for it, but not a dedicated device.

Unless is was part of my Two-Way Wrist Radio (with iSight, of course).

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

Ooops.
RAMdŽd @ 12/12/2003 10:07:25 AM #
I hate it when that happens.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.
RE: Aha! I
jishaq @ 12/12/2003 5:27:35 PM #
I don't know if I buy into the T|C conspiracy theory. As I understand it, those things aren't exactly flying off the shelves in the cosumer sector, anyway.

And if you're an enterprise IT manager making a buying decision, and I hate to say it, but the T|C doesn't compare very well to any of the PocketPC devices that 1) have built-in WiFi as well; 2) Probably sync seamlessly with Exchange Server out of the box; and, 3) Wouldn't cost quite as much. Oh, and 4) They have a "Start" menu button on them. :)

-Jeff


Believable...

orb2069 @ 12/12/2003 4:04:52 PM #
...At least sort of, at any rate. Not surprised in the least that Palm would make devices that can't deliver full SD spec voltage - At least not after the string of problems with SD and various models.

Still makes me wonder why Palm went with SD in the first place, the choice seems to invite this sort of disaster.

No SDIO Wifi for Treo 600?

jishaq @ 12/12/2003 5:13:03 PM #
Thanks for the news, Ryan. Therein, you mentioned, "some Palm Powered devices, like the Treo 600 for example, have maximum power specs below Wi-Fi needs."

Does this entirely preclude WiFi on the Treo 600? As far as I know, there are two ways to get WiFi on a Treo 600, in theory.

1) Via SDIO

2) Via the Palm Universal Connector on the bottom, aka the HotSync port. An example of this application would be a sled design or some kind of clunky cable contraption. (ugh)

Note that 1) and 2) are precisely the "Dual Expansion Architecture" that Palm, Inc. debuted with the m500 model back in March 2001. Hopefully the Treo 600 uses this architecture -- I'm not sure because I'm still waiting for Amazon.com to ship mine. :(

If SDIO WiFi is 100% not going to work on a Treo 600, that sucks. If it might, but maybe not by SanDisk's designs, that's good news I suppose. I've pretty much written off SanDisk anyway, because they have repeatedly deceived their customers.

What do you folks think?
-Jeff

RE: No SDIO Wifi for Treo 600?
rmhurdman @ 12/12/2003 6:58:37 PM #
The idea that the Treo's maximum power spec is too low for SDIO was an assumption made by the readers posting comments. The currently available Wifi implementations use a LOT of power (like my TC) and the article says that they Treo 600 couldn't support it.

However, there are new chips being developed that are intended to greatly reduce the power required by an 802.11b radio. I don't remember off the top of my head which company was testing new, low-power chips (Philips?), but the more PDA users demand Wifi, the more companies will look for ways to give it to us.

But don't hold your breath.

RE: No SDIO Wifi for Treo 600?
mwylde @ 12/13/2003 12:14:10 AM #
The Treo 600 doesn't use Palm's universal connector. It uses the same connector as the treo 300, as the treo 270, as the treo 180c and g, and as the treo 90. So any Wi-Fi that would come through that way would have to be made peticuraly for the treo. Besides, I have the 300 with unlimited imternet from Sprint, so I really don't care about having Wi-Fi, though it's faster.

"Matters of great concern should be taken lightly, matters of small concern should be taken seriously"
-ancient chimese adage
RE: No SDIO Wifi for Treo 600?
fleehartsell3 @ 12/13/2003 8:03:39 PM #
How about this combination....

Treo 600 + Bluetooth SD Card + Bluetooth access point.

Could this enable someone to use high speed internet at home? I realize that it may be an expensive proposition, especially for those of use who already have 802.11g access points at home. I'm just throwing out possibilities for getting wireless internet on the Treo 600 without dialup...

RE: No SDIO Wifi for Treo 600?
jrowell848 @ 12/14/2003 1:46:37 AM #
Is there a bluetooth sd card that will work with the Treo 600?

RE: No SDIO Wifi for Treo 600?
benixau @ 12/14/2003 10:50:41 PM #
There are currently no wireless connectivity SDIO cards that have OS5 drivers.
Funnily enough they all have drivers for the pocketpc market whcih is quickly moving to a combo BT+WiFi solution in most of its handhelds

RE: No SDIO Wifi for Treo 600?
shadedecho @ 12/18/2003 2:34:36 AM #
actually, there IS a palm supported bluetooth card for SDIO...

http://tinyurl.com/3elak

have been trying to find out if anyone has been able to successfully use this on a Treo600 yet.

RE: No SDIO Wifi for Treo 600?
joshgambit @ 12/19/2003 2:53:01 PM #
Actually, the SIDO card from Palm is not supported by OS5. That card will work with:

Palm™ Tungsten W, i705, m515, m505, m500, m130 and m125

I don't want a card - I want a sled!

cowpen @ 12/15/2003 11:33:30 AM #
To me, a sled makes so much more sense for occasional WiFi usage. I'd prefer to leave my SD card slot available for all my apps and dB's and avoid sucking my battery dry with a power-hungry WiFi card.

I do occasional WiFi security and coverage scans to test RF links and discover rogue AP's. As it is, my PPC-toting colleagues can do this with their handhelds, but I have to use my laptop. I'd love to have a solution for my TT to keep up with them.

Features I'd like:
1) slim design with internal rechargable battery
2) support for full power 100mW 802.11
2) decent range internal antenna with external connection
4) through-port charging and sync

Novatel's Merlin CDPD sleds for the Palm 500 series were really nice designs as opposed to Xircom's clunky WiFi sleds.


THE SLED IS THERE!!!
alexito @ 12/17/2003 1:10:53 PM #
I own one Xircom-Intel sled for Wi-Fi the problem is it is OS4 only, I've not tested I only have my old m130.

The good news are thet the firmware on the sled is upgradeable so we can make a driver for OS5, sound to me like a very interesting sourceforge project in wich I would like to participate. anybody to coordinate it?
Maybe I can make the coordination part but I need some really good coders, we may even sell the dirver =)

I'm not a great coder but would be great if we all join in and show those f*** companies how to do things.

On the other hand I think I should stick with my old wardare since I dont like the sound of a TC, better buy a dedicated mp3 player. If the power issue is true about the Treo 600 that would be sad news, because it was the device of my dreams.

Technology moves faster than you can afford... at least for me.

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