Comments on: PalmSource Expands Java Support With IBM WebSphere

PalmSource announced today it has licensed IBM's WebSphere MicroEnvironment (WME) Java 2 Micro Edition (J2ME) certified runtime environment and WebSphere Studio Device Developer (WSDD) toolset for integration into the Palm OS platform.

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Not impressed yet

sremick @ 2/11/2004 5:07:34 PM #

I already have the beta J2ME VM that is native ARM on my T3 and so far I haven't been impressed. I've come across some midlets that worked (the generic ones) but they've been worse than running original Palm Pilot 160x160 B&W apps... there's so much more out there these days that's native-Palm and far better than this stuff. The cool stuff tends to be coded specific for certain cell phones and won't work.

RE: Not impressed yet

yerrago @ 2/11/2004 11:49:13 PM #

I agree. Somehow Java being sluggish even for a fast desktop PC doesn't make for a convincing argument for Java on any ARM processor-equipped PDA, smartphone, or anything.

RE: Not impressed yet

sremick @ 2/12/2004 2:07:01 PM #

Actually, I didn't find the J2ME to be slow at all. I installed a graphics demo and it was quite speedy (3D spinning wireframes and stuff).

I just wasn't impressed in the available midlets. All the generic ones were monocrome and had the graphics quality of the original Atari. Why would I want to fuss with a game like that when I can download something like Warfare that's made for Palm?

The J2ME seems to be focused on mobile phones, with them only being available via paid download directly from your carrier. You see lots of cool midlets at places like http://www.midlet-review.com/ but they won't work on your Palm+J2ME. In fact, many are only for specific phones (I've managed to obtain the .JAR files for some and try them).

Not sure what the point of coding to an open cross-platform language like J2ME when your resulting midlet will only work on the Nokia 60 or whatever.

RE: Not impressed yet

ganoe @ 2/12/2004 3:15:15 PM #

> I already have the beta J2ME VM that is native ARM on
> my T3 and so far I haven't been impressed.

See the thread below on CLDC vs. CDC. As long as all that Palm keeps offering is a Java implementation designed for phones, all that you are going to get is apps designed for phones.

WRONG

rsc1000 @ 2/12/2004 5:09:01 PM #

>>I already have the beta J2ME VM that is native ARM on my T3 and so far I haven't been impressed.

Umm - im pretty sure that the runtime is NOT native ARM. They have been careful to state this and that a native ARM version is coming. The VM that comes with (or the download ) the t3 is 68K running Pace. Considering this - its quite speedy. Especially when compared to the Java implementation i say running on PPC just 2 years ago (havent checked to see new version opf Java for PPC - anybody know about IBMs J2ME on PPCs?).

Anyway - read this from palmOnes site on the J2ME info page (under the heading 'Runtime Pricing and Availability'):

http://pluggedin.palmone.com/regac/pluggedin/JavaBG.jsp

My beef is that the demos they are using to showcase this dont utilize the extended screen api AND just dont run that well (check out some donloadable j2me demos like sketch or tabledemo- a bunch of bugs there.

Java on the Palm

Quickster @ 2/11/2004 7:43:42 PM #

Does anyone really care about this stuff? Java for the Palm has been available now for a couple of years and so far has gone no further than these news blurbs.

RE: Java on the Palm

rsc1000 @ 2/12/2004 5:17:21 PM #

I care and no there has nopt been a 'real' version of Java for Palm. SuperWaba is not real Java (not Sun certified, and well - not very good), and the only VM from Sun was not a release version. I believe they referred to it a 'proof of concept' and is in no way supported. The IBM j2me is much better and based on a newer j2me standard. It runs in PACE right now but the new native ARM version should be considerably better performance-wise.

RE: Java on the Palm

ganoe @ 2/12/2004 7:10:22 PM #

> the only VM from Sun was not a release version.
> I believe they referred to it a 'proof of concept'
> and is in no way supported. The IBM j2me is much
> better and based on a newer j2me standard.

I think you are talking about Sun's old KVM which was a proof of concept VM. Sun also did a J2ME CLDC MIDP 1.0 implementation for Palm.

http://java.sun.com/products/midp4palm/download.html

That's not to say that IBM's current implementation isn't better or much better supported, but CLDC and MIDP has been available on the Palm for a couple of years.

RE: Java on the Palm

rsc1000 @ 2/13/2004 4:08:11 PM #

Cool. I stand cortrected. thanx for the link.

CLDC versus CDC

DaM @ 2/12/2004 9:05:47 AM #

CLDC are for small, girly cell phones!
Why not give us the CDC (Connected Device Configuration)-edition? I think the Sharp Zaurus runs one, as well as Pocket-PC's.
When you have a 64 MB PDA it’s silly only to be able to run 64 KB Java-programs. Actually, I think the CDC-edition would be a great platform for many business-applications, whereas CLDC-applications typically are small, silly replicas of old arcade games.

RE: CLDC versus CDC

ganoe @ 2/12/2004 3:08:25 PM #

I agree. Palm, please wake me up when CDC Personal Profile is available for Palm OS 6, Cobalt, whatever you want to call it.

Just how many more years are we going to be listening to these announcements for MIDP??? It was available on the Palm probably 2 years ago at least, and lately we seem to be getting a monthly re-announcement. If I wanted Java for a phone, I could've bought a phone with it a year ago.