Comments on: Bradley Says New palmOne Handhelds In April
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Will you pay $1,150?
But have you considered the cost?
At the current cost, most of you already don't want to buy the Treo 600.
Higher resolution screens, higher resolution cameras, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, long-life battery, and any other improvements to the Treo 600 will only cause the retail price to go higher.
Would you pay for a Treo with everything on your wish list if the retail price was $1,150?
Of course, there is also the issue of bulk and weight. The more bells and whistles you add, the bigger and heavier the Treo might grow.
RE: First Post Wooohooo
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PDAs: Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > Toshiba e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3/HP h4150 (est arrival 25th March)
Mobiles: StarTac > Ericsson T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630
DigiCam: Minolta DiMage E323
April 2004 - I'd like to see
1. Palm Tungsten T4 - same as T3 but no slider, thinner, smaller, lighter, 128MB+, with OS6 and Wi-Fi built-in. Camera would be nice too.
2. Palm Treo 6XX - same as Treo 600 but 480x320, OS6, 64MB+, and better battery life.
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
#2 definitely won't happen until we make better batteries. Dude, havin a 320x480 screen will suck batteries faster than turning on wifi, and bluetooth simultaneously! (well prob not, but it will suck a TON of battery). i doubt the treo's will go past 320x320 until battery technology does improve
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
As it is now, the 600 is great for light surfing and passable at ebook reading (suprisingly so. I think it's because the screen is physically smaller that the fonts don't look as bad as others do).
As it is now, the only thing the T3 misses is wifi for it to be a perfect main PDA to go with a treo 600.
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
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PDAs: Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > Toshiba e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3
Mobiles: StarTac > Ericsson T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630
DigiCam: Minolta DiMage E323
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
2. Palm Treo 6XX - same as Treo 600 but 480x320, OS6, 64MB+, and better battery life."
1. As much as I applaud the thought, I don't think Cobalt is April-close. This concept is almost uptopian in nature. You can't get smaller, thinner, lighter and WiFi AND the battery that would be required to make it all happen. The T|3 (I think, don't grill me here) saves some screen juice when its slider is closed, extending battery life, and the battery life is horrible anyway. To truly have a device with all the features, you'd need a monster 1500 mah battery, and that kills the smaller, thinner, lighter part.
2. Same problem with the Treos. I think that putting such a big screen on a communicator is counter-productive at this time. After all, what's the two biggest battery minders you own? Your phone and your Palm, right? Put 'em together and whaddya got, a battery vortex. Add a 320x480, and you might as well get a battery belt (should I patent that?).
Now a fuel cell is what we need.
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
---
PDAs: Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > Toshiba e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3/HP h4150 (est arrival 25th March)
Mobiles: StarTac > Ericsson T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630
DigiCam: Minolta DiMage E323
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
> Palm Tungsten T4 - same as T3 but no slider ...
Then where do you put the buttons?
The T3 slider allows the buttons+navigator and the HVGA display to overlap, which allow the unit to fit in your pocket. Sony had to stick buttons on the back of the TH55 to keep the size reasonable, which is not the preference of many users (gamers?).
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
The Treo brand is for smartphones. If you put wi-fi into it then you have two systems which drain the battery - the cellular radio and the wi-fi. I see 802.11b in a smartphone as being redundant because:
1) Cellular coverage is wider than 802.11b - if you're going to be tethered to the 100m 802.11b range then what's the point of a mobile?
2) GPRS and EDGE through the cellular network offer the same advantage of 802.11b anyway - that of always on connection. Granted 802.11b is faster but EDGE will narrow the gap a little.
Bluetooth is more useful as it's handy for handsfree headsets, which you need for a mobile.
I think in time wi-fi will become absorbed into the cellular infrastructure. Albeit I write this from a European perspective, where the cellular infrastructure is far more widespread than in North America.
All being said it's probable that technology advances will lead to a device that will have cellular and wi-fi with good battery life but that time is not yet here. Therefore today's smartPHONE has to concentrate on the PHONE, not on the wi-fi. There's no point of having a phone with wi-fi if you can only have thirty minutes use before recharging.
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
That said, a 320x320 screen would draw almost the same amount of power as a 160x160 screen. The main power draw isn't in the number of pixels; it's in the backlight, which would stay the same size.
I think the Tungsten T series will always have a slider. It's a hallmark of the series. If you don't want a slider, wait for the Tungsten E2 (or whatever).
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
---
PDAs: Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > Toshiba e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3/HP h4150 (est arrival 25th March)
Mobiles: StarTac > Ericsson T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630
DigiCam: Minolta DiMage E323
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
>That said, a 320x320 screen would draw almost the same amount of power as a 160x160 screen. The main power draw isn't in the number of pixels; it's in the backlight, which would stay the same size.
The display refresh power is proportional to the number of pixels. That's why models with hires displays have a noticeably shorter battery life even with the backlight completely off.
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
Amen !! And get rid of that battery-hungry Intel processors !!
Regarding Treo or other PalmOS based smart phones, until unicode is supported by the OS I am not interested at all. Not everyone lives in USA you know.
RE: April 2004 - I'd like to see
Of course, the 7135 is horrifyingly expensive, so it's not like I'd ever get to *own* such a thing, but it would be nice to dream about. :)
*stares at her T|E enough until it starts looking like it has a stubby antenna... and wings, too! Bright happy wings!*
Any more news on the Tungsten E2?
RE: Any more news on the Tungsten E2?
--anarchangel
RE: Any more news on the Tungsten E2?
Tungsten E2 with 320x480vg screen, bluetooth, SDIO, universal connector, decent mutimedia capabilities, and 3rd party aps on CD-ROM not in ram. I need this device, and I need it now! Am I asking too much? Are you guys with me?
RE: Any more news on the Tungsten E2?
I think Palm's refocuing on shoring up the low end of the market before coming out in the fall with two or three OS6 high-end units.
The 2nd part of my fearless predictions is that Palm, in addition to the above units, will "refresh" their existing units by canning the original Zire, Z71, & T|T2 for good and dropping the MSRP on the Z21 and T|T3. T|E & T|C will stay where they are for the time being. I also think PalmOne will use April to redo their product packaging and start having the new logo on their handhelds. If we're lucky, all T3s & TCs produced with the new logo will have updated apps in ROM and will be built to higher tolerances than the earlier models.
So it looks like they are going to have a little more streamlined but more competitive lineup of non-Treo devices. Makes sense to hit all of the important price points-$100, $150, $200 etc. with less overlap than the lineup's had in the past. The reintroduction of the m500 late last year showed that even Palm acknowledges the huge gap between the Zire 21 and the T|E, feature-wise.
T3 with Wi-Fi
I just cannot believe that such a product does not exist yet. Yes, I know I can get a huge enfora case with it's own battery etc, but it's just not cool - it takes away all of the T3's coolness. Just look at the HP4155 - tiny package with Bluetooth & Wi-Fi - trouble is, it's a PPC.
Looks like we'll all have to defect to Sony's TH55 - without lanscape, to get a decent product... :-(
RE: T3 with Wi-Fi
Nick
RE: C2
In any case I doubt we will see any hardware update for the T|C soon.
RE: C2
Much more multimedia storage?
Scott
http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: Much more multimedia storage?
RE: Much more multimedia storage?
Scott
http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: Much more multimedia storage?
I would translate "improved multimedia" capabilities into not much more than basically better quality headphone output and mp3 playback (and a better Real player pre-loaded), alongside a 1.3mp digicam in the Z71 replacement that will also do video capture. Also posssibly an option to store voice memos as MP3s. Finally, I wouldn't rule out something along the lines of a swiveling camera ala Sony or the first Veo SDIO camera for the new Zire and an image assist light or a real flash.
RE: Much more multimedia storage?
I'd gladly pay $400-$450 for a T|E2 with a 480x320 display and a decent sized little hard drive.
RE: Much more multimedia storage?
Well, that does make for a substantially more intriguing comment, doesn't it? As nice as HD would be, I don't think the economic are there just yet for Palm (having far less buying power than Apple or Creative) and just imagine the support woes--if they can't make a Tungsten slider non-wobbly after 3 tries, imagine how flaky a first-time HD integration would be!
I am going to agree with you about 128mb of onboard memory or a split memory system like Sony's employed as of late. It's amazing how many reviews of the T3 comment on how not being able to store MP3s in main memory is a "negative aspect". Also, perhpas the beleagured Sandisk is going to try and team up with POne to...drumroll...bundle 128mb Sandisk SD cards with the next batch of Tungstens!
RE: Much more multimedia storage?
1. No PDA (even Ppod on PPC) is going to replace an iPod.
2. An iPod has none of the power hungry components a PDA has (400Mhz XScale processor, 64-128MB RAM, RF modules, huge backlit screen). And yet it's at about the minimum of expected battery life. In real word experience, you'll get maybe 6.5 hours out of a 40GB iPod assuming you don't touch it while playing, such that you don't unduly spin up the hard drive, or activate the backlight. But jump around from song to song, and you're looking at something closer to an hour. Imagine your battery life when you add the additional battery drain of a PDA feature set. No one (at least not a PalmOS user) will find less than an hour's battery life acceptable. Which is why again, it's important to have the two separate. The PDA has it's own battery life, the USB HD mass storage device has it's own. Sort of like the Enfora WiFi case approach.
3. A mobile interface (text entry, playlist edits, etc) would be pretty handy to an iPod user.
RE: Much more multimedia storage?
Hmmm, my Treo 600 has replaced my Rio 300, my Handspring Visor, and my old Nokia. If I had an old, old digital camera it would have replaced that as well. Who is to say that a Treo couldn't "some day" replace an iPod. The only thing it would probably couldn't duplicate exactly is the physical interface, but that may even be enhanced by searching for a song with the keyboard as you mentioned. Batteries are getting better and hard drives more effecient all the time. There's going to be a point, maybe 2 years from now, that the Treo (or a similar smartphone) has the capabilities of today's iPod.
"The PDA has it's own battery life, the USB HD mass storage device has it's own. Sort of like the Enfora WiFi case approach."
My Handspring Visor and Nokia cell phones had their separate power sources. Now they share the same one, and I quite enjoy having to only manage keeping one device plugged in. The key is to be able to power down the components you don't need. In a PDA with a hard drive it would make sense that you could power that down when you don't need that kind of storage. One short term limitation I could live with would be me manually having to copy from the HD storage the files I want to the main memory in bulk, so it wouldn't have to access the HD much, but I'd still have everything with me. Sure that wouldn't be a true iPod replacement, but it could easily be down with today's technology.
Price points?
Does everyone expect the TT3 to remain at $399 -- or to drop to $350, for instance?
That new color Zire -- $100 or $150? Will it necessarily spell the end of mono PDAs? Or will palmOne keep the mono Zire and just lower the price?
Of course, if anyone finds prices listed in a Staples or Office Depot inventory db, feel free to post!
RE: Price points?
Current Models:
-Zire EOL
-Zire21 $75-$85 MSRP. New POne palogo on case & packaging. Will be absurdly cheap by the tiume "Back to School" August '04 rolls around.
-Tungsten E. Either EOL (mostlikely) or MSRP reduced to $169ish to clear remaining inventory. New POne logo on case & packaging if not EOL.
-Zire71. EOL
-Tungsten T2. EOL
-Tungsten T3. MSRP reduced to $350. New POne logo on case & new blister see-thru packaging like the Zire71. Updated ROM apps, uniform screens & build quality improvements. No ROM updates for existing owners.
-Tungsten W. On life support. More rebates for new AT&T activations & dimished exposure as POne sells thru remaining stock. Will probably gradually fade away until Treo 610 launches (midsummer)?
-Tungsten C. MSRP possibly reduced by $50. Rebates will continue, but probably for $50 instead of $100. New POne logo on case & new packaging as mentioned above. Updated ROM apps & screen digitizer problems resolved. Possibly (but unlikely) the addition of stereo output to the headphone jack. ROM updates for existing T|C owners.
New Units for April '04:
-Zire31 (or whatever) specs as rumored (8mb ram, SD slot, 5-way navigator), $100-$120. Color 160*160 screen similar to m505. Will be $100 or less by fall '04.
-Zire 72 (or whatever) 1.3mp digicam w/ image assist lamp or flash. 32mb RAM. Bluetooth. Blue case like Z71. 320*320 screen. MSRP of $250. No UC, just USB & charge port (Zire line will uniformly be UC-free)
-Tungsten E2. 32mb RAM. Fixed form factor, similar design to current T|E but in a darker color. 320*480 screen. MSRP of $250-$300. Bluetooth. No voice recorder. Universal Connector (selling point for Tungsten line from here on)
In fall '04 we will see a BT & Wi-Fi TC2 with OS6, 128mb memory and a 320*320 screen. We'll also see a T4 which will basically be a T3 but with 128mb memory & OS6 and an ATI Imageon graphics controller for pwerful 2D performance. Dual SDIO slots remain an outside possibility. PalmOne will also USB 2.0 enable their OS6 handhelds and may upgrade the ancient USB cradle in the process. Sandisk wi-fi drivers will be released June '04, buggy as a bait store but functional.
RE: Price points?
The T4 or whatever won't include WiFi as it has a worldwide target audience where outside the US, Bluetooth is more important. In many countries where WiFi penetration is less than 1% is makes no sense selling an expensive PDA with WiFi when the consumer won't use it. But The T5 probably will have. Somewhere along the line the TC will take a similar role as HP's h5xxx series while the TT will be the equavelant of HP's h4xxx series. The TE will become the slimline budget model (HP's h2xxx). The Zires will compete with HP's consumer line the h1xxx. The TW series could be revived to take on HP's h6xxx series.
Looking at Palm's business model, I doubt they will release same model with different wireless function in different regions like Sony does. For some reason they like to streamline their PDAs worldwide (standard support?).
And there won't be any Palm VGA PDAs this year...
---
PDAs: Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > Toshiba e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3/HP h4150 (est arrival 25th March)
Mobiles: StarTac > Ericsson T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630
DigiCam: Minolta DiMage E323
RE: Price points?
RE: Price points?
What is the point of having a "universal connector" if you then make your supposedly consumer line without it? Bah. If the whole PalmOne line is transitioning to USB, that's one thing, but I'm sorely disappointed if they are creating artificial divisions by having one type of connector on one product line and another on the other product line.
RE: Price points?
To answer Mike's concern:
Nah, they'd probably just keep the same SKUs on them. Same as having retail boxed hard drives from Maxtor but newer drives actually containing 10gb more than is stated on the outside of the box. I bought a 40gb HD 3 years ago and was elated when I opened the box and saw a little sticker that said "congratulations-you have a 45gb HD instead of 40gb!" No mention of it anywhere on the packaging. Same applies to different firmwares on CD/DVD burners or to generic retail brands like Hi-Val or Buslink--they might say a 52x CDRW but it might be a rebadged Lite-On, an Acer, or another brand but all with the same SKUs. Also, remember when the PC games industry switched from big boxes to small boxes? I would hunt around for the "larger" box version of a game b/c usually they had marked both prices the same but the big versions usually came w/ a printed manual. So I wouldn't expect too much confusion to be created by updated T3 & TC packaging.
RE: Price points?
Wow.
I love it too when people ask about "The Clee."
RE: Price points?
It supports CF, which is all you'd need to put a 4GB microdrive in internally (just like the iPod mini).
But regarless, my Ipod example only requires USB host (of which the Intel xScale supports 2 host ports and 1 device port), and a USB mass storage driver.
"Going over USB would be slow,slow,slow."
Compared to what? The PDA is the bottleneck, not USB. Our devices would be hard pressed to saturate even a fraction of USB 1.1 throughput.
April: PalmOS Five pointpoint what?
Waiting with bated breath
I'd rather not, but I'd definitelly pay T3 prices for that (assuming it's 100% T3 slider-free of course!)
As far as the comment re: much more storage for multimedia... I'd guess that maybe they're going to do the same thing Sony did and have some built in memory that pretends to be an SD card.
It would be pretty cool, as it would allow users to use their PDA as an MP3 player without having to buy an SD card. If they did this I'd predict they would provide a smallish storage space (32 -> 64mb ... so that they wouldn't really be killing off their SD memory card sales).
Alessandro
really hoping for that Z71 replacement... don't even care if it has QVGA or not. Better camera, more memory, Voice Recorder is all they NEED to sell me on it... everything else'd be icing on the cake.
Alessandro
RE: Waiting with bated breath
To get decent working times my old TT1 is now back in service but as many of my documents are on the SD card there's only limited space for music.
I would like to see 2 SD card slots and swappable batteries (ah, the happy days of my HP200 which ran on two AA batteries).
Dave
a Brit in Clogland
RE: Waiting with bated breath
(Screen off of course!)
Alessandro
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