Comments on: Rumor: New palmOne Tungsten Image on Amazon

A possible image of a upcoming Tungsten handheld has shown up in a new listing on New rumors point to a slider-less model, with a 320x480 display and a release as early as next Tuesday.
Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments


The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Comments Closed Comments Closed
This article is no longer accepting new comments.


2 cents...

peitron @ 9/29/2004 12:57:59 PM #
A couple of thoughts....

If they eliminated the slider, and there is no wi-fi or voice recorder (?)what's the extra space for? Extra RAM isn't going to eat up all the space. A second SD slot? If so, I agree that the T5 would basically be a PPC from 2002.

At $400 + another $50 for a cradle, this unit is completly overpriced.

I see no use in upgrading my T3, other than to get a new version of the OS. If an OS upgrade is made available, the T5 may be a commercial fiasco.

IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

RE: 2 cents...
critic @ 9/29/2004 1:12:32 PM #
Where are you getting all this from, considering the only info in the Amazon posting is the info for the case?

Also, if you click through to Amazon's site, or click the image above, you can see in the full-size version that the handheld shown is from the "T" family. Of course, it COULD just be a mockup.

What do you think, sirs?

RE: 2 cents...
Altema @ 9/29/2004 1:25:51 PM #
It's my opinion that this is the new TE, being used as a distraction. However, if it IS the T5, I'm keeping my T3!

RE: 2 cents...
peitron @ 9/29/2004 2:19:52 PM #
But wasn't the new TE supposed to be delayed until the spring? It might just be a prototype that was leaked (as comment below reminds us, it's the same picture leaked at Brighthand).

IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx
RE: 2 cents...
Ronin @ 9/29/2004 2:38:00 PM #
Looks to me like the upgrade for the T|E not the upgrade to the T|T3. In fact, based on the image of the toolbar which is identical to the one on the T3, I would say it is running some flavor of OS5.

In the event that these photos are accurate and the rumored specs are on target, I think that this would be a reasonable upgrade to the T|E.

In the Spirit of Umoja,

RE: 2 cents...
hkklife @ 9/29/2004 2:53:27 PM #
There is NOTHING on this model (if the rumors are correct) that I'd find attractive in the slightest over my T3 to consider upgrading. Well, the fixed tablet shape is nice but not nearly enough to make me give up my T3.

This thing, whatever it is, SHOULD be called the T|E2 and priced at $300 max. It'd sell like hotcakes as the successor to the original T|E, regardless of OS version. Otherwise, I predict a slow death for it at $400.

But by calling it a T|T5, P1 is throwing all prior chronology out of whack. Unless their devious plan is to basically drop all of the current Tungstens other than the T5 & TC and just go with two Zires for the lower end of the market.

I still think it's far too early for them to gamble so much on the smartphone market. The presence of just one single Smartphone candybar formfactor makes it very worrying to me as well.

Predictions for October/November:

Zire 21: officially discontinued, unofficially still avaialable in stores through early '05, new MSRP <$100
Zire 31: Unchanged
Zire 72: New MSRP of $250 after current rebate offer ends

T|E: Discontinued as it'll steal sales from T5 and it still offers too much bang for the $
T|T3: Discontinued with a final price cut to move out existing units (also all remaining UC accessories are heavily discounted as well)
T|C: Stays around until spring '05 with new P1 packaging and a $50 price drop. P1 quietly ignores the fact that it is the lone unit still with UC.
T|T5: Launches at $400 to lackluster sales. P1 quickly comes up with a $400 bundle of T5 & Wi-Fi card and drops MSRP of handheld-only T5 to $300-$350.

Treo 600: MSRP dropped by ~$100 and all sorts of other deals depending on carrier
Treo 650: Launches with Sprint only for remainder of '04. Sells decently at $600 but not well enough to bet the farm on.

RE: 2 cents...
kevdo @ 9/29/2004 3:03:57 PM #
>If so, I agree that the T5 would basically be a PPC from 2002.

Sure. Except it has twice the screen resolution. That's no small selling point.

-Kevin Crossman, Palm Powered Software Champion

Is It Going to Fly?

Robotica1 @ 9/29/2004 1:26:26 PM #
Looks like the T-3 build style. It's a solid business PDA in looks. But if the rumored specs are correct, it will be underwhelming. More memory and a tablet shape will not make T-3 owners jump to buy it. Even a new OS might not be enough to get me to pay-up. What would be interesing:

> an advanced multi-media engine
> enhanced amplifier for MP3 playback
> faster processor
> Wi-Fi (it's still low on the growth curve but the buzz is great and PPC's have made it derigueur
> dual SD slots


RE: Is It Going to Fly?
LiveFaith @ 9/29/2004 5:09:38 PM #
NO WAY PalmOne is going to attempt to push this thing off as an advancement called the T5. Forget it!

Pat Horne;

I *like* the slider!

skeezix @ 9/29/2004 1:48:53 PM #

All these rumours include dropping the slider..

All I can say is that would be *terrible* in my opinion :) (So many people say they hate it, but I'm betting many of those aren't ones who own the devices in question. Though many who do own them dislike it... *sigh*)..

If the new T|T comes out, with no slider.. I won't buy it. I picked up a sexy vaja case for the T|T1, used it with the T|T2, and it still fit (though not quite perfeclty) my beloved T|T3. The slider is essential -- keeps the unit small and portable without looking like you've got a banana in your pocket :)

So I for one love the slider design and will be sorely disappointed if they drop it :( How could I buy another device that doesn't fit my sleek vaja case? :)


(OKay, for those keeping track, I'm a developer and I buy a lot of devices. But I'll take a pass on this one if no slider!)

The Shadow knows!

RE: I *like* the slider!
peitron @ 9/29/2004 2:13:53 PM #

Love the slider.

PalmOne would be walking like a crab if it markets this unit as a model T.

IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

RE: I *like* the slider!
Patrick @ 9/29/2004 2:48:29 PM #
I own a slider device and I massively detest it.
I think you make great software, Jeff, but you have lousy taste in hardware. ;-)

I am not a very good artist, but I lay down this challenge:

Take a T3 and open the slider. On a sheet of paper, make an outline of the device and, as best you can, overlay an outline of the full, expanded screen. Now close the device and line it up with your previous paper outline. Draw where the bottom of the collapsed T3 case goes relative to the previous outline.

Now take a look. You'll find that below the screen outline and above the outline of the collapsed case there is PLENTY of room for a D-Pad and hardware buttons.

In other words: It is very, very possible for P1 to design a device with the best of both worlds: no slider, yet still the size of the T3 collapsed.

There is NO size advantage to the slider. It only takes a little bit of thoughtful design to get your cake and eat it too.

RE: I *like* the slider!
skeezix @ 9/29/2004 3:09:10 PM #
Sure, if you toss out the d-pad and such, theres lots of room ;)

To me, size is everything; I want the device small and in pocket; comparing it to a NX60 Clie or the like.. forget it, they're huge. No way. If you toss the slider out and gain half an inch.. its too much :)

What they really need is the same specs, and alternate choices (ie: We buy via specs, and have input preferences.); T|T5a and b and c -- slider, no slider large screen, and 320x320 Variation on input, but same specs otherwise. The T|C is really just a specialized T|T3 in my books .. no slider, but thumboard; both have fast CPUs and such, different software bundled, plus the 802.11.

Ah, I'm not picky; I change devices frequently (I even wrote a tool to copy and restore all my personal data to SD card, so I swap devices in less than 5 minutes for the most part :) .. but I like my slider. It doesn't matter to me if anyone else likes it :)


The Shadow knows!

RE: I *like* the slider!
Hotoru @ 9/29/2004 4:13:57 PM #
I agree.. 100% I have the T3 and I LOVE the silder design. I love taking it out of my pocket and sliding it open to turn the unit on. then closed when I want to turn it off. In addition, I read books with the slider closes as it does not seem to use up battery as quickly (I think it doesnt light the bottom 1/3rd of screen closed).

RE: I *like* the slider!
CaptMyCapt @ 9/29/2004 4:31:08 PM #
Exactly! The slider was a brainstorm success. I've owned all slider Ts. Love the heck out of it. Fix the d**n digitizer, do the other adders (i.e., WiFi, BT, etc.) and leave the darn slider alone.

I, Captain

"You will never make progress trying to sail into the wind - chart your course!"

RE: I *like* the slider!
Altema @ 9/29/2004 4:49:16 PM #
Patrick, to get a real picture of things, you need to remove the slider and measure what is really below the screen. There is only 4.2 millimeters of hardware below that point without the slider. The bottom of the slider itself is 7mm below the bottom of the screen. Keep in mind that the physical screen is larger than what you see, the actual bottom is not the bottom of the status bar. The current T3 button layout is 22mm high and 45mm wide, with the d-pad itself being 15mm by 22mm.

The 7mm space you are proposing as plenty of space would be pretty tight, seeing as just the select button itself is almost 6mm high. palmOne would have to make a slider-less T5 longer than a closed T3 just to have enough room for the buttons. On the plus side, they could also make the device thinner and have a larger battery. However, it will not be as small as a closed T3.

This is actually why I like the slider... I get generous buttons and enough device to get a good grip on, as well as a large screen, all on one of the most compact devices around. Despite being an extreme user, I don't need any more memory or speed, just more battery and ocassional wi-fi.

RE: I *like* the slider!
LiveFaith @ 9/29/2004 5:14:10 PM #
I like the slider too. Keeps the unity compressed and small 4/5ths of the time, yet allows widescreen usage for books, spreadsheets, games or web only when desired. The T3 is an awesome and useful form factor. Hard to get a replaceable battery that way tho + a little "rickety" compared to a Vx or m5xx.

Pat Horne;
RE: I *like* the slider!
radleyp @ 9/29/2004 5:37:02 PM #
Patrick, the unit you are describing exists (or at least existed). It's the SonyTH55 and the instant I started operating it, I realized that the buttons and the "d-pad" were a disaster. Much too small! Your design sense is fooling you because you are using the dimensions of the Palm and its slider without considering the dimensions of a person's hand and fingers (and FYI I have small hands). I do like the slider, but I could also use a unit without one (and did for a quite a while). For those like me, however, for whom size is a crucial element, the slider is a brilliant solution. Philippe Radley

RE: I *like* the slider!
Patrick @ 9/29/2004 5:39:32 PM #
Althema... If I understand you correctly, I don't think you are being fair! By removing the slider portion you are making the device smaller than what it is in its normal "closed" position.

I think there is more room than what you have suggested. Basically, I'm saying take the outline of a closed T3 and overlay on that outline where the screen is -- not the closed screen, the full 320x480 screen. Now look below the screen and you'll find that there is plenty of room for the hardware buttons. They may be a tad smaller than the ones that are on the device now, but they would still be quite servicable, IMO.

That way you get a no-slider, always-open T3, but the size of a T3 when it is CLOSED. Again, I say THE SLIDER DOES NOT MAKE THE DEVICE SMALLER. An ever-so-slightly better hardware button design can completely obviate the need for a mechanical slider.

RE: I *like* the slider!
Patrick @ 9/29/2004 5:44:08 PM #
Radleyp ... Sorry, but I could never accept Sony hardware button design as an argument to prove anything. Not even that the sky is blue. You may be right, but not because of the fact that Sony's buttons are crap.

RE: I *like* the slider!
hotpaw4 @ 9/29/2004 6:31:27 PM #
If the width of the SD cards in the photo of the case are correctly scaled, then whatever handheld might be pictured in the case is about 4.5" tall (count the pixels). This is the same height as the T|E, and about a quarter inch taller than a closed T|T3. Note that the Palm V was also 4.5" tall.

So the T3 slider would allow larger buttons while saving a quarter inch. There's less room below a 320x480 display for buttons than you think because, just like a TV, the physical glass needs to be bigger than the usable active display area.

I will leave it as an exercise for the student to infer a display DPI from the photo.

RE: I *like* the slider!
rsc1000 @ 9/29/2004 6:57:16 PM #
I like the slider IF the measurements are the same as the T|T1 - NOT the T|T3. IMO the look and feel of the T|1 is much better than the T3. It feels more solid and is more pocketable. Although the T3 has obviously better specs (and has been universally praised as a success by comparison) than the T1 - the T1 beats the T3 hands down in terms of ergonomics. It just feels much nicer and more solid than the cheapo feel of the T3 case. Yes - the T3 screen won't quite fit the T1 case - but it is close and i believe they could have done a much better compromise (or at least they could now). And it goes without saying that the T1 has a D-Pad that is 100x better than the crap square plastic thing that is supposed to be the T3s D-Pad. I own both and i end up using the T1 more for daily, on the road activity because of the afore mentioned ergonomics and superior battery life. If i get a new game the question i ask first is: will this run smoothly on my t1? If yes - then the game goes on my t1 where i can enjoy better playability because of the DPad. If not i put it on my T3 to get the extra horsepower (or extra heap if thats what the game needs). Getting off topic but oh well...

RE: I *like* the slider!
JonathanChoo @ 9/30/2004 4:00:57 AM #
This is just an opinion, IF this is the T5 then I would be sorely dissapointed.

I really like the slider and now its gone. Instead it shares the same design as the budget model TE. Even if it comes in real aluminium casing, WiFi, bigger battery, more RAM and processor speed I doubt I would be able to separate my money for such a design.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

I too, really *like* the slider!
RAMd®d @ 9/30/2004 9:54:18 AM #
But it could use some Teutonic execution.

My T3 loosened up somewhat, giving a slightly vague feel. For the first two weeks, it was terrific. If it *stayed* as tight as a SigSauer or hk, that would be a whole different story.

But, I'd be sorry to see the slider go. I want a lot of screen but in a form smaller than my iPAQ. (In fact, I'd love to see P1 bring out an updated Vx/m515. Svelte is good!).

I'm kind of wanting a Wi-Fi/BT Tungsten smaller than a breadbox.

We'll see what next week brings. My T3 still has some miles left, so I won't be heartbroken if the T5 doesn't WOW! me.

An armed society is a polite society.

RE: I *like* the slider!
Altema @ 9/30/2004 11:36:02 AM #
Patrick, the measurement from the bottom edge of the physical screen hardware, to the bottom of the closed slider, is 7mm. If there was a way to upload photos here I could show you directly, but since PIC does not allow that, I can only give the real measurements I took from an actual device.

I know the looks of the T3 are deceptive, that's why I measured it myself.

RE: I *like* the slider!
dagwud @ 9/30/2004 11:42:07 AM #
RAMd®d wrote:

"(In fact, I'd love to see P1 bring out an updated Vx/m515. Svelte is good!)"

Which is precisely the reason that I have stayed with my m515, in spite of all the neat stuff that an OS5 model would do for me.

RE: I *like* the slider!
LiveFaith @ 9/30/2004 2:22:52 PM #

I like the fact that your thinking about P1 making a smaller, tighter and ergonomic device. I think this is one area where P1 has advantage over most PPCs (except HPs excellent 19xx & 41xx form, imo).

One thing you are not considering in your "T3 pencil revelation" is the fact that just because the T3 viewable screen area ends at a certain point does not mean that the actual LCD hardware ends there. Actually, the slider (& on all others too) covers a significant extension of the hardware LCD and its thin wiring. To make measurements based on the viewable screen are not true measurements. Measurements must be made on the actual piece of LCD hardware which must be used. It's the same concept as looking at the CRT or LCD on the PC/Mac that you are reading this post on. You may have a 17" viewable monitor, but the plastic outer edge is covering some "underhand" or the actual tube or LCD circuitry.

The T3 is actually quite efficient and compact when you see the guts of it. The rounded bottom is aesthetically pleasing, yet probably wastes a bit of length. Otherwise the inside is quite well compacted.

While the slider offers the following drawbacks ... thickness, moving parts, weight, less solidity & expense, it has in my personal usage more advantages. Pocketability is very important for daily and hourly "power" usage and the Ts fit the bill, while having excellent spacious buttons. I even appreciate the much maligned circular T3 arrangement because of the way they "rotate" automatically and ergonomically when using the device in landscape mode.

One last point of importance for the slider. I have found personally that accessing my T3 with slider "closed" works perfectly for 80%-90% of tasks. This means that 80-90% of the time, I have a tiny PDA with an excellent button arrangement. Yet, when I want to play a game, view photos, movies, read the Bible or book, edit a Word doc etc which can benefit from the widescreen, my T3 is only a quick slide away from automatically becoming a "bigger" device. When it's ready to go back to the pocket "shazaam", it's tiny again. An important point is that most of the times we access data, which is the usage of most all PDAs, we do not need 320x480. The T3 slider makes it excellent in both worlds imo.

Now, if you use a T or T2 without the nice status bar, then I understand your frustration. The T3 is a totally different world compared to the "crippled" slider design of those original units.

Finally, if you were going to minimize the length of a tablet device, then button ergonomics will most certainly suffer. That may not show up on the spec sheet, but it will in real world usage.

Pat Horne;


VT-Vincent @ 9/29/2004 2:10:11 PM #
Wait a minute, hasn't this image been posted before, and already admitted to be a spoof by it's creator? As originally broke here - I don't understand how this could have come on Amazon's site unless one of their graphics designers thought it would be cute to put the hoax in the unreleased case.
RE: Spoof?
peitron @ 9/29/2004 2:17:15 PM #
Good point, unless the confession was a hoax to downplay the leak. This is all too confusing.

IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx
RE: Spoof?
superdork @ 9/29/2004 2:22:15 PM #
I am almost positive that if this thing is real, it is the new itteration of the Tungsten E line and not the T. I would almost bet money on it....almost! :)
I'll keep my HX4700 IPAQ until I find out more. It's gonna be hard to beat it's 640x480 screen, but if it has built in Wifi and looks more closely like the previous supposed hoax pictures,
I'll probably bite.(MS Mobile sucks something BIG!!)

RE: Spoof?
jack @ 9/29/2004 2:44:14 PM #
totally agree about Pocket PC sucking; can't believe I went to the dark side
. Let's hope. So far pen and paper beats Microsoft...

RE: Spoof?
Gekko @ 9/29/2004 2:47:42 PM #

It's a mystery, it's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma!

RE: Spoof?
hoodoo @ 9/29/2004 3:33:21 PM #
Thanks Winston

RE: Spoof?
A Tom B @ 9/29/2004 4:47:12 PM #
There's somebody at in IT at amazon right now laughing their a$$e$ off at all of you!!...somebody with some graphics extpertise of course!
RE: Spoof?
I.M Anonymous @ 9/30/2004 1:00:30 AM #
You are confusing your "leaks." The earlier pictures that looked like a T|C were fakes, and the creator admitted it. The pictures that looked like a T|E has several flaws, but 1src still claims they are real.

RE: Spoof?
ganoe @ 9/30/2004 8:55:35 AM #
These photos are from an ad for a case and a cradle. Isn't it possible that these are just mock-up PDAs to sell the case and crade?

tellit2be @ 9/30/2004 10:43:35 AM #
In an attempt to boost sales at the beginning of the fall shopping season, PalmOne officially announced the “Tungsten O”. Inside sources have confirmed that the device, of which only 1,000 were manufactured, will have an orange / metal casing - similar to that of the Tungsten E. The application buttons located at the bottom of the unit will be gray and black in color. The unit will run the new PalmOne OS, Cobalt, and have a 320 by 480 (portrait and landscape capable) screen. It will also include 512mb of onboard memory, and will come with the expandable stylus made famous by the first Tungsten. This model will be Wi-Fi and Bluetooth enabled.

Our sources also confirm the meaning behind the “O” moniker: “With the orange and black case, and the name Tungsten O, it’s pretty obvious that PalmOne created this device to sell during their October sales kickoff. Releasing a limited edition unit with strong specs may help season-opening sales in a market that is currently in a slump. While it is fabulous to find all of the listed specifications finally included within a single PalmOne unit, we are not sure how the public will react to the Halloween themed color scheme.”

The official release date of the PalmOne Tungsten O is October 5, 2004.

Picture located at :::

Tell It 2 Be

RE: Spoof?
lamp @ 9/30/2004 11:37:03 AM #
In an attempt to boost sales at the beginning of the fall shopping season, PalmOne officially announced the “Tungsten O”

Picture located at :::

Sort of looks like the Claudia Schiffer Model dressed up for Halloween. Mmmm, Claudia dressed as a witch... ZAP!!! Arg!! Damn it. She bought the T5 model with the built-in Taser.

RE: Spoof?
tellit2be @ 9/30/2004 12:26:56 PM #
Funny you mention it...

I was gonna buy my girlfriend that model for her birthday, but she had a problem with it fitting in her purse or pocket.


Maybe they should make those optional SDIO and UC attachments.

Tell It 2 Be

No wifi - No sale

rikster @ 9/29/2004 3:39:04 PM #
I think the subject says it all....

There's no wifi icon on this model - so I'm not buying it. Bye bye palm, hello PPC. We've all been waiting too long for you to bring out a 2003 PPC competitor.

RE: No wifi - No sale
LiveFaith @ 9/29/2004 5:17:12 PM #
It's not the T5.

Pat Horne;
RE: No wifi - No sale
olmo47 @ 9/29/2004 6:59:01 PM #
Patience’s grasshopper.

RE: No wifi - No sale
rikster @ 9/30/2004 5:57:44 PM #
Dear Livefaith,

If you are so sure this is not the T5, then you must know what 'is' the T5.

Please enlighten us all - we cannot wait any more.

RE: No wifi - No sale
LiveFaith @ 9/30/2004 8:35:01 PM #

I would be more secure if Amazon has pawned us a photo of an M105 with a PSed TT5 logo on it.

Pat Horne;

Possible glimmer of hope?

hkklife @ 9/29/2004 4:09:42 PM #
Food for thought:

Guys, if we are this close to the official announcement of the T5, isn't it odd that Ryan is posting rumors/tips/accidental photos of the T5 from Amazon. He's always been under strict NDA in the past. Just think about the Oslo/T|T being the worst-kept secret by everyone but the head honchos of the major Palm news sites.

In fact, all of the major PDA news sits are still buzzin' away with T5 speculation so that leads me to believe that P1 either has decided that word of mouth buzz is a good thing (unlikely) or all of these are red herrings that P1 is carefully and deliberately leaking in order to throw us off. Or, for a longshot, there may actually be both a T5 and a T|E2 out there and some of the info is being intentionally overlapped in order to create confusion.

Let's face it, no one's yet come up with a good quality shot of an ACTUAL T5 in someone's hand or in use. The Treo 650 spy pics were also of surprisingly high quality so it is possible that those were nudged out by P1 as opposed to being leaked by someone without P1's permission.

Gekko, Mike Cane, Gfunk, et al: please feel free to take pot shots at my conspiracy theories.

RE: Possible glimmer of hope?
gfunkmagic @ 9/29/2004 4:16:53 PM #
>>>>Or, for a longshot, there may actually be both a T5 and a T|E2 out there and some of the info is being intentionally overlapped in order to create confusion.

That's my only hope at this point b/c the current rumored T5 specs are utterly disappointing imo. However I doubt PalmOne is releasing any other handhelds before 2005...unfortunately. Seriously though, my expectations from PalmOne are so low right now that perhaps something (anything) they release in addition to the T5 may be a positive...

I support


RE: Possible glimmer of hope?
palmato @ 9/29/2004 4:21:19 PM #
There's not much to take shots at. We all hope this is a hoax and the next T5 will have Wifi, voice recorder, metal casing, etc.

Unfortunately we'll get the pig ....

RE: Possible glimmer of hope?
hkklife @ 9/29/2004 4:26:50 PM #
Oh, my gut feeling IS that the specs are all genuine and basically the only thing left up in the air would be the inclusion of the wi-fi SDIO card in the box...not that it'd make one bit of difference to me. I was just trying to cheer myself and the fellow enthusiasts here up a bit before the inevitable announcement.

If this all ends up even 1/2 correct as rumored, then it'll be the first true sign that P1 is conceding the handheld market to the PPC camp and putting all of their remaining eggs in the smartphone market. Actually, I had a bad feeling back this spring when we just got two cheapie blue Zires and no new Tungsten models...This is starting to look eerily similar to the early death throes of some notable technical giants of yore (Commodore, Atari etc).

RE: Possible glimmer of hope?
Patrick @ 9/29/2004 5:08:52 PM #
I'm pretty sure any NDA would not cover information received through a third party. Ryan would be free to publish it, provided he didn't identify whether or not it was accurate.

RE: Possible glimmer of hope?
peitron @ 9/29/2004 6:26:41 PM #
If it's not the real thing, either there some wiseass at Amazon or JR, or there's a really bad marketing director at Palm One.

I refuse to believe that some marketing genius would be dumb enough to leak false negative information about a future product. Would they be trying to set expectations so low as to not disspoint with the new unit? Only a lame loser who doesn't have faith in his product could try to pull something like that.

If it's someone at JR or Amazon, I take my hat off to them and wish them good luck in their new employment.

IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

RE: Possible glimmer of hope?
LiveFaith @ 9/30/2004 2:49:56 PM #

Hear me now and believe me later ... this aint gonna happen! If this is a T5 and PalmOne banks their future on this flagship model, then I'm gonna start buying puts on margin on my credit card issued to me by an Italian guy in Jersey named Brutas.

Pat Horne;

RE: Possible glimmer of hope?
rikster @ 9/30/2004 5:59:40 PM #
Come on LiveFaith - tell us all what 'is' the T5.

Sounds like you have actually got some 'real' T5 info....

RE: Possible glimmer of hope?
mikecane @ 9/30/2004 6:26:22 PM #
Let's all remember LiveFaith's comment for TUESDAY!

RE: Possible glimmer of hope?
tiocsti @ 10/1/2004 12:34:15 PM #
Hear me now and believe me later ... this aint gonna happen! If this is a T5 and PalmOne banks their future on this flagship model, then I'm gonna start buying puts on margin on my credit card issued to me by an Italian guy in Jersey named Brutas.

I dunno what's really so bad about the T5... I'm in the minority in that I want it to dump bluetooth and use the space for a smaller unit and/or to provide longer battery life.

Also, you cant buy options on margin, except for leaps and I don't believe plmo leaps are available (besides, leaps tend to have tiny delta and gamma).

RE: Possible glimmer of hope?
RAMd®d @ 10/1/2004 2:41:20 PM #
When was the last time Palm, palmOne, or any PDA manufacturer released a Red Herring to "throw everyone off"?

I remember pShopped photos that were declared real only to be acknowledged as fakes/conepts, and real photos denounced by the forensic experts here, as fakes.

But I don't remember seeing any manufacturer release/leak phony images to... What, exactly?

An armed society is a polite society.

Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!

gfunkmagic @ 9/29/2004 4:10:13 PM #
Could PalmOne really have a monstrous debacle on their hands if the rumored specs turn out true and disappoint so many as anticipated, especially amongst the enthusiast community? If the T5 has no wifi and Cobalt as widely discussed and is priced at $400, this could be one of the most underwhelming, underachieving PalmOne handhelds in a long time. This would have been a great pda a couple years ago, or even a year ago...but not today. :(

I support


RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
palmato @ 9/29/2004 4:25:27 PM #
Well, if
- the casing is metal and not plastic
- there's a voice recorder (mic + button)
- battery life is at least 4 hours (effective)
- pricing is at 300$-350$

Then it might still be successfull, at least IMHO. T1 and T2 users may have a reason to upgrade, while T3 users would not have many.

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
bsquare @ 9/29/2004 4:40:58 PM #

Close, but not quite... M515. That was the most lack luster upgrade effort P1 ever put forth.

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
hkklife @ 9/29/2004 4:44:07 PM #
IIRC, the m125 launched by itself fall of '01. That was a very miserable time for Palm(much like the present), as the m505 was under fire for its pitiful screen and the rest of the lineup was ancient. Then the i705 came out late (it was supposed to launch alongside the m125 I think) in early '02 and caught a bunch of flak as well. Finally that whole miserable period was capped off with the release of the m130 (remember the "thousands of colors" debacle?) and the underwhelming & overpriced m515 in spring '02. Had the T|T & Zire that fall not been such huge successes, Palm might not have lasted long enough to split up and cough up another underwhelming, overpriced (do you see a trend?) handheld in fall '04...

So now it looks like the series of home runs in '03--Treo 600, T|C, Z71, T|E, & T3-- were all flukes after all.

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
Patrick @ 9/29/2004 5:01:48 PM #
I dunno if you can discount the enthusiasts role in the success of a high-end device. There is an almost unanimous outpouring of grief from the news sites over this ridiculous T5. I know I won't be recommending this device to anyone, will you? Surely there will be a knock-on effect, reviewers will pick up on it and then the general buying public. At $400, this device is doomed.

Of course, we are also lamenting the fact that is has been called a T series machine and not an E series. Had it been an E (at $300) we probably would all be saying "Well done, Palm, now where's our top end T?" With this one being called a T, we know there's no hope for another top end model being released for quite some time.

On the upside, this frees up some budget for me to buy a Treo Ace! Have you seen the new pictures on TreoCentral?? Pretty sweet device.

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
LiveFaith @ 9/29/2004 5:18:45 PM #
It's not a T5. That would be the most insane "upgrade" in history. Maybe an E2, but not T5. PalmOne may have made mistakes, but they are not suicidal.

Pat Horne;
RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
Altema @ 9/29/2004 5:18:48 PM #
"Close, but not quite... M515. That was the most lack luster upgrade effort P1 ever put forth."

Yeah, they should have called the M505b. However they did fix a lot of problems, and the M515 was one of my favorites. My daughter still has my old one, and it works just like the day I bought it.

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
dmacdonald95 @ 9/29/2004 5:29:48 PM #
I believe that is a Tungsten E with a bigger display, and a "Tungsten W-style" Dark Brushed Metal look.

Palm Zire -> Palm Zire 31 (in a few weeks ;-))
RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
peitron @ 9/29/2004 6:09:58 PM #
I agree that this would be a suicidal move. Enthusiasts and early adopters are key to a unit's commercial success.

Everybody has a friend who is the techie freak they run to and consult when buying new hardware. I doubt that any serious "geek" would be recommending a T5 if this turns out to be the final version.

I don't think that it's an intentional abandonment of the PDA market in favor of the smart phone market. A listed corporation always need to diversify. If this turns out to be true, I think it's just plainly a dumb move.

IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
tooele @ 9/29/2004 9:14:33 PM #
If these rumors of the T5 are true I don't think anyone with a T3 will upgrade because none of the "upgrades" in the rumors are worth spending $400 for.

It's a T5; deal with it
JShoo @ 9/30/2004 3:50:46 AM #
The evidence that a T5 is being released next week and not a TE is overwhelming, including even Palm's website. For this to be an "E" would require a massive conspiracy.

Leaving aside controversial areas like the slider and overall appearance, the T5 is a clear improvement over the T3, so I don't know why Palm should be ashamed of calling this "T5". The T5's processor is (slightly) faster, it has significantly more memory and the memory is flash, and it has newer and improved software & functionality. If the T5 is unworthy of its name, then so is the T3, which has poorer specifications.

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
Patrick @ 9/30/2004 4:30:06 AM #
I don't give a hoot about its name except for one thing: what it probably implies about other near-term releases.

Had they called it a T|E2, then I think there would still have been a chance to see a top-of-the-line T|T heritage model in 2004, one with everything this so-called T5 has, plus Cobalt, WiFi and the Voice Recorder that every previous T|T model has featured (dammit)!

Since this one is called the T5 there is little chance of such a superb model appearing soon, or ever, which is why I am very sad.

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
hkklife @ 9/30/2004 9:50:24 AM #
JShoo, a "clear" improvement over the T3?

Well, it's lacking a voice recorder which is essential to me. I am sure it adds mere pennies to the cost of each handheld in the long run. With all of that on-board storage it'd be a natural to have such a feature. The lack of a LED on the front to indicate charging status also reeks of cheapness as does the lack of an included cradle.

Then of course, you can argue over the OS, lack of wi-fi or several other features but I will keep my argument limited to the three factors that the T3 has over the T5.

For $300, all of the above would be acceptable. For $400 all of the above just adds up to a lazy-arsed, shortsighted effort on P1's part. Between this overpriced travesty and the nice but way overpriced Treo 650...ugh.

The average consumer in a retail store will not know about the superstitions associated with the "unlucky" 4. They will merely see this model next to a T3 and wonder why the T5 isn't THAT much better than the T3 even though it is seemingly 2 generations newer. A Jeep Liberty is called Cherokee in Europe. Land Rover's LR3 is still the Discovery overseas. Hasn't P1 ever heard of rebranding a product for the purposes of different markets?

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
Rome @ 9/30/2004 10:50:08 AM #
"The average consumer in a retail store will not know about the superstitions associated with the "unlucky" 4."

Unless you are Chinese....and last time I checked, one out of every four people on this planet is Chinese.

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
palmhiker @ 9/30/2004 12:56:13 PM #
If palmOne actually releases this device, at this price, it will pretty much confirm that they believe their only future lies in the smart phone market.

I expect right now, palmOne is working on several new versions of Treo's, and that is soaking up 80% of their R&D budget.

Sadly, the most we may see are incremental upgrades to existing handheld products, maybe a T-C with slightly better specs and the annual re-hash of the Zire line.

Very depressing...

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
Bostonnerd @ 9/30/2004 2:08:41 PM #

While only history can judge their wisdom, the device (if real) could very well be the beginnings of a newly revised prduct roadmap.

PalmSource has been loudly proclaiming the smartphone atrributes of OS5.x. Not much mention of Cobalt in any of the collateral. Why?......because Cobalt is overkill for the smartphone market. I would guess that the per unit license fee for OS5 is half of what it is for OS6 (purely an educated guess). They'll be lucky to recoup their R&D costs on Cobalt with only PalmOne as the only possible licensee. Developers have squeezed all they can out of OS5 for pure PDA development. The limitations of the OS, while seriously gating for a standalone PDA, will buy them time in the smartphone space

PalmOne is focusing on the smartphone market. They're stated this either directly, or indirectly a number of times. Given the financial status of the company, they need all the margin they can get. So......crank out lower end PDAs using existing (read cheap) technolgy, and suck in all they can from the smartphone space were margins will be higher for the foreseeable future. I really belive that PalmOne no longer considers high end PDAs strategic, and will conceed that market to Dell and HP. The majority of their R&D will be in the smartphone space going forward.

As always....IMHO

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
LiveFaith @ 9/30/2004 2:56:03 PM #
Gosh guys. I hope you are not investing money based on these photos. Nice speculation except for one small point ... this absolutely will NOT be the upcoming Tungsten T5. Hear me now and believe me later.

Pat Horne;
RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
mikecane @ 9/30/2004 6:27:23 PM #
Brutus awaits you, LiveFaith. Don't be a girlyman next week!

RE: Most disappointing reception for new P1 device ever?!
LiveFaith @ 9/30/2004 8:38:28 PM #

If you don't hear from me and it's NOT the T5, then I'll be in Aruba and delayed a few days until I can post "I told ya soes" from my beachfront hotel room.

If you don't hear from me and PalmOne did "commit suicide" with this thing, then you may not hear from me at all b/c I'll have company in from NJ!


Pat Horne;


olmo47 @ 9/29/2004 7:01:52 PM #
I reed all YOUR comments, “T5, wi-fi, bluetooth, two slots, not two slots, no wi-fi, no slider, I like the slider, why 256 of ram? PalmOne, screw up, moving to PPC, I m not buying, to much money, I am not changing, I am changing, palm need to get with the program” WELL, IF THEY CARE OR NOT.....50% WILL BUY it, 50% WILL NOT; YOU KNOW, “AVERATEC” HAS A SMALL 12” LAPTOP, WITH ALL OT THE ABOVE for $799.00. I have a palm, I love for what I do with it, I don need to keep up with the JONES? Some of you need to quit wining, and get a live.

RE: T5
AyDb @ 9/29/2004 7:56:31 PM #
I love to hear people spend their time b-tching about how other people are wasting THEIR time.

A laptop is not a palm
JShoo @ 9/30/2004 4:13:47 AM #
Because the T5 is so underwhelming, I recently considered switching to a sub-compact notebook. However a notebook is simply not the same thing as a handheld. I cannot strap a notebook to my belt and carry it with me everywhere I go. There are situations I run into everyday where a handheld is practical but a notebook is not.

"Switching" to a notebook would in reality mean that I also started carrying pencil and paper with me to replace the functionality I lost.

The great strength of the Palm is its seamless integration with the personal computer. I use whichever is appropriate at the moment.

My notebook is actually the least preferred of the three computers I own. I do as much work as possible on my desktop computer which has keyboard, screen, and computing power that is far better than any notebook which money can buy.

One size doesn't fit all for me. I much prefer to use the best tool for each situation.

RE: T5
RAMd®d @ 10/1/2004 2:46:12 PM #
You *know* something about the T5?

And you're already "underwhelmed"?

Please share your inside knowledge and put an end to the random speculation.

An armed society is a polite society.

Axim Killer?

Gekko @ 9/29/2004 7:56:11 PM #
Just for shiits and giggles, compare these specs to the alleged T5:

Dell X50v - High Configuration
Processor Type Bulverde XScale Processor PXA270 624MHz
RAM Memory 64MB
ROM Memory 128MB
Display 3.7" VGA Transflective Touchscreen (TFT)
Support for Dual Display
Graphics Companion Chip Intel 2700G (Marathon w/extended memory)
I/O Slots 1 Secure Digital (SD/MMC/SDIO) Slot
1 Compact Flash Type II (CF) Slot
Infrared Standard v1.2 (115kbps)
Internal Microphone Yes
Audio Out 1 Speaker
1 Stereo Headphone Jack (3.5mm)
Bluetooth Integrated Bluetooth 1.2 class II
802.11b Integrated
Synchronization Cradle
Operating System Microsoft Windows Mobile 2003 SE
Hi-Capacity Battery 2200 mAh
Dimensions 119 x 73 x 15.9 mm
4.69 x 2.87 x 0.626 in.
Weight 140g / 4.9 oz
$499 MSRP
Launch Date October 1, 2004

RE: Axim Killer?
AyDb @ 9/29/2004 7:59:18 PM #
Gekko, where did you get some of this info? Specifically the reference to 'dual display,' pricing, and launch date? I hadn't seen those bits before.

By the way, high-end RAM is expected to be 128 MB, not 64, and the 2200 mAh extended battery is supposed to be optional. The standard battery is supposed to be 1100 mAh.

RE: Axim Killer?
PixelPusher @ 9/29/2004 9:57:18 PM #
... Operating System Microsoft Windows Mobile 2003 SE

If only it didn't have this feature, I would go for it. I just can't go for a Windows PDA. I have tried them, but always come back to Palm.


RE: Axim Killer?
AyDb @ 9/29/2004 10:36:25 PM #
Yeah, but not everyone who will be comparing them will be fixed to the Palm OS. If they were, P1 would never need to be competitive.

Gekko, never mind the question about 'dual display', I recall now that there was something cryptic about that in the FCC docs.

Sorry, kids

AyDb @ 9/29/2004 7:52:36 PM #
It isn't a fake. It isn't disinformation spread by PalmOne. It isn't the T|E2. There's no big surprise coming. This is it.

RE: Sorry, kids
Captain Hair @ 9/29/2004 8:37:59 PM #
Stop! You're going to make me cry!

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: Sorry, kids
rikster @ 9/29/2004 10:45:34 PM #
The suspense is killing me !

I bet the picture is the T5... all palm users will just groan & move over to PPC.
Dell X50 ! - quite amazing compared to any palmone product !

RE: Sorry, kids
LiveFaith @ 9/30/2004 2:59:45 PM #
Aydb ... that TE2 with those specs aint gonna happen as a T5.

Pat Horne;

Hope for the future: cobalt 6.1

JShoo @ 9/29/2004 10:23:36 PM #
There is hope for getting good Palm hardware, but it will require patience. As the article on this site about the newly released cobalt 6.1 shows, it is the FIRST Palm OS with all the features natively in the OS which are needed to produce the PPC-killer palm which all of us want.

It will take some time to get there, but I believe that Palm DOES know that this T5 is not nearly enough. I also believe that a year from now, if not just six months, Palm WILL release the system we have been waiting for. They must to survive.

RE: Hope for the future: cobalt 6.1
Analytical @ 9/30/2004 1:29:33 AM #
I want to believe but its just hard sitting about waiting all the time. I've been a fan of Palm ever since the Palm III and i'd love to have a palm that does what I want (WiFi, BT, MP3, and all the other palm things we expect) but either Palm is teasing the market in a bid to improve sales or it just doesnt have it anymore.

Either way I'm not sure i'd agree with their strategy. I'm sure that they must have lost a fair share of Palm users already though their attitude of ignoring customers.

Personally I'm sure Palm will eventually release some decent new hardware but it will be based on OS6. This seems to be where most of thier efforts are at the moment. I just hope its not too late in comming, and that its not too little too late.


RE: Hope for the future: cobalt 6.1
Gekko @ 10/1/2004 3:00:46 PM #



Market Forces

hyperdaz @ 9/30/2004 7:02:53 AM #
I really dont understand how shortsighted markets can be....

Why has the mobile phone had to attempt to intergrate everything into a phone.... reason sales.... not the fact "most" people wanted more from a mobile... the fact that no one would upgrade every six months...
I am sure if a phone maker made a mobile as a watch with bluetooth headset /pda connectivity, it would be a better success than trying to get people to download and watch the shinning on the bus.

good battery life and style/size are the key to this but I am sure it would be possible.... or will be possible very soon...

Now will the phone makers push the watch makers out or the watch makers beat the phone companies to the style and usablity of such device...

In this event a Palm sized PDA is even more useful....

forget the above even... and make a TungtenT model with a phone built in... then bundle it with bluetooth headset and leave the PDA as a normal PDA shape not a phone/PDA that does neither... due to size and shape...

funtionailty is what makes a PDA useful...

The TT models were a step forward for palm then the m5xx models when will they take another step ahead of the PDA race.???

flexible screens
voice reconision
.....................there must be much more but the point is Palm need to do the ground work and not just create a PDA thats outsourced to china and think thats all thats needed for the future...

I am sure they have to bite back at the smart phone through funtionality (their screens are normally larger, their size normally smaller, build better metal over plastic anytime)... thats why joining the smart phone is a major distraction from creating a PDA...

I always use SMS on TT because it faster easier and safer...

I am also interested to understand what splitting the company did for Palm...
You now have a software company making PDA software with really only one major force in the industry needing the software... say they create the software but Palm1 cant release or obtain the hardware at the costs they demand so dont release a product fast enough... PalmSorce not making much money out of PDA software but have all these phone manufators asking demanding ... then the PalmOne want to realse PDA hardware with OS7 but PalmSource has not maintained the PDA tree its placed all its dev team on phones and have nothing to offer what will Palm1 do????

RE: Market Forces
hyperdaz @ 9/30/2004 7:45:09 AM #
oh the pictures are as fake as a standard daisy spotted growing on Mars... using a pint glass from earth...

RE: Market Forces
LiveFaith @ 9/30/2004 3:01:32 PM #
Thank you hyperdaz.

Pat Horne;

hardcase ad?

ganoe @ 9/30/2004 9:03:15 AM #
If these images were from an ad for a hardcase on, why is there a also picture of a PDA without the hardcase? Was there also a cradle ad?

We'll all know for sure

mikecane @ 9/30/2004 12:29:02 PM #
-- in a few days. By next Tuesday, in fact.

So much excitement. I thought this thing had been talked out!

RE: We'll all know for sure
LiveFaith @ 9/30/2004 8:42:55 PM #

Don't take such a risk posting like that. C'mon commit yourself man. I've got my Viser maxxed out and credit on my two youngest kids selling short on PalmOne shares for Tuesday.


Pat Horne;

RE: We'll all know for sure
lamp @ 10/2/2004 8:37:36 AM #
It's going to be a loooong and agonizing weekend for a lot of us.

C/Net did post some news about the T5 and Treo 650, but it doesn't contain much that we didn't already know or speculate about.

A lot has been said about WiFi here, but I just want to remind folks that Starbucks / T-Mobile still charges a hefty fee for access. At minimum, it's $6 for the first hour (even if you use it just for 15 minutes)! McDonald's offers a $2.99 day pass, but I think they scaled back their roll-out.

In NYC, Bryant Park offers free access, but there is a sign-on screen. A few hours later after I used the service, I received in my mailbox what can best be described as a spam storm.

Yes, there are lots of unsecured hot-spots around which you can find with a net-stumbler, but I find people are learning to lock down their systems. My favorite free hotspots are slowly disappearing. The good news is that public libraries are slowly starting to offer free hotspots.

In the news, Philadelphia is working on free wireless for all, courtesy of the city government / tax dollars. But we know that won't happen before a Palm OS Cobalt, thin metal casing, tablet shaped, wifi and bluetooth device appears. Right???? :-P

WiFi,with all its promise, is still a mixed bag. I use the T|C, but I dropped it one too many times and cracked the screen. I can repair it for $125, but if Palm drops the price of the T3, I may pick one up instead of a T5 or Zodiac.

This is ridiculous !

rikster @ 9/30/2004 3:28:10 PM #
Come one someone in the know !!!! - tell us !!!!

There must be thousands of people who know wether the T5 has wifi or not. People who work at PalmOne. People at the printers for the packaging. People in the warehouses, stockpiling the boxes (if it does not have wifi, they should not stock pile too many).

Someone just tell us if it has wifi or not - so we can be dissapointed now rather than waiting a few more agonising days.

RE: This is ridiculous !
Patrick @ 9/30/2004 5:11:36 PM #
I actually think they have told us, but with all the hoaxes recently, nobody is believing them.

RE: This is ridiculous !
LatinTraveler @ 9/30/2004 6:19:45 PM #
I agree with Patrick. Either they did a very good job preventing leaks and hiding the Wi-Fi capability or they already told us and it is so bad that we don’t want to believe it.

RE: This is ridiculous !
LiveFaith @ 9/30/2004 8:45:33 PM #

I'm still hanging on to my promise P1 aint gonna do such a thing. But, if they did, we definitely won't want to hear it.

Pat Horne;

RE: This is ridiculous !
T. @ 10/1/2004 4:20:19 PM #
Thank goodness no wifi.

I just bought the wifi card so it was not a waste.

Why would anyone want it built in. All that means is you have to trash the whole PDA when someone finally releases an 11g device.

The only problem with the card is that you don't have RAM on it (although I have yet to run out of handheld RAM when downloading stuff). Anyway, it looks like the T5 will have more than enough RAM to solve that problem.

Details specs on T5

JShoo @ 9/30/2004 9:37:37 PM # has some new, detailed specifications of the T5 which will soon be released. Besides verifying the information and picture already released so far, they give a detailed breakdown of the 256 meg of flash: 160 meg internal flash drive, 55 meg for programs & data. They verify it is running OS 5.4. There is also a detailed picture of the cradle kit.

RE: Details specs on T5
happypalms @ 9/30/2004 11:18:55 PM #
I've read just about everything possible about the Tungsten|T5, and here is the info I've found:

Name: palmOne Tungsten|T5
Operating System: Palm OS Cornet (6.1)
Memory: 128mb RAM
Processor: PXA270 520MHz
Size: 4.7" x 3.0" x 0.66"
Screen Res: 320x480 (HiRes+)
Expansion: SD/MMC/SDIO(Three-in-one Port) & Universal Connector
Wireless Connectivity: Bluetooth, Wi-Fi (802.11b)
PIM Features: Calendar, Contacts, Memos, To-Do List, Note Pad, Voice Memo
Release Date: November 1, 2004
Price: $399.99

There have been some reports of it having 2 SD/MMC Slots, that is false. There will only be 1 SD SLot, and there will be no slider.

Palm m130 -> Tungsten|T -> Tungsten|T3

RE: Details specs on T5
rikster @ 9/30/2004 11:37:53 PM #
So, as we all expected, PalmOne are idiots & the only way to have Wi-Fi on this new device is to have a wafer thin very breakable card sticking out the top.

Well done PalmOne - you've lost a lot of loyal customers !

RE: Details specs on T5
rikster @ 9/30/2004 11:44:11 PM #
Am I missing something here, or is the only reason to upgrade from a T3 to a T5, a $50 256mb flash memory card ?

RE: Details specs on T5
Altema @ 9/30/2004 11:47:20 PM #
Nah, you also get a slightly faster processor and a little better battery. And you get away from the super-complicated-can't-decide-how-to-use-it-and-it-breaks-if-I-look-at-it-too-hard slider. The six T series in my family that have never failed or confused anyone here notwithstanding ;)

RE: Details specs on T5: I am confused
feranick @ 10/1/2004 1:08:17 AM #
What's this?

Operating System: Palm OS Cornet (6.1)

Aside note: The fact that the device will have 256MB ROM makes me wonder if PalmOne decided to go that way because of the lack of WiFi. Having only a SD slot, and using the WiFi card, there wouldn't be any space for the memory SD. So P1 decided to stick a bigger Flash ROM...

Who knows....

Happypalms specifications are false
JShoo @ 10/1/2004 4:24:33 AM #
Just in case anyone didn't notice, the device specifications given by Happypalms disagree with almost everything posted for the T5 so far. For example, there is no Palm OS called "Cornet". The only other place I have seen specifications like those was on an admitted hoax which came out at the end of August.
Side-grading from a T3 to T5
JShoo @ 10/1/2004 4:36:53 AM #
If the 1src specifications are true, there are few reasons to "upgrade" from a T3 to a T5. In fact moving T3 to T5 would be more of a side-grade than an upgrade, because each device has some features which the other does not.

The main advantage of the T5 is having the equivalent of a $30 128Meg SD card built in. The base (non-flash card) memory in the devices is nearly the same, 51 Meg vs. 55 meg.

Other than the 128 Meg flash drive, moving from T3 to T5 would be a trade off. The T5 apparently does NOT have a voice recorder, which the T3 does. Deciding which looks the best or whether a slider is good or bad is a personal preference. The T5 does have some features the T3 does not like the ability to appear as a removable disk drive on a personal computer, without the use of additional 3rd party software.

RE: Details specs on T5
LatinTraveler @ 10/1/2004 8:01:05 AM #
Guys, did you notice (and I suppose you did) that HappyPalm’s specs include Bluetooth and Wi-Fi?! (I don’t believe it though..)

RE: Details specs on T5
happypalms @ 10/2/2004 11:12:33 PM #
Sorry, I goofed. It is actully Cobalt (6.1), and yes there will be Bluetooth AND Wi-fi (802.11b), I am sure about all this.

Palm m130 -> Tungsten|T -> Tungsten|T3

RE: Details specs on T5
gfunkmagic @ 10/2/2004 11:20:09 PM #
>>>>>Sorry, I goofed. It is actully Cobalt (6.1), and yes there will be Bluetooth AND Wi-fi (802.11b), I am sure about all this.

Dear Gawd I hope so!!!!! But I would rather keep my expectations low considering this is PalmOne afterall... *sigh*

I support


I found this picture on a french forum

millydog @ 10/1/2004 7:17:15 AM #
RE: I found this picture on a french forum
s_teve @ 10/1/2004 3:20:56 PM #
If this site is true then the only possible answer is that the supposed t5 is in fact the item that is on Amazon. There are many reasons to support this. Amazon only believe in factual info, they are hardly going to post an image of something that is a fake. Perhaps it is a new form of the tungsten range
This could be a tungsten h or tungsten s ???

RE: I found this picture on a french forum
LiveFaith @ 10/2/2004 12:02:09 AM #
I thik a better name for this after 1 year of waiting would be ... Dungsten D

Pat Horne;

It's the OS, stupid

dustbunny44 @ 10/1/2004 12:03:31 PM #
Sorry for the subject line, but it seemed topical.

The point being that this is not really an announcement of new hardware, it's the first commercial availability of the new Cobalt software. The T5 is a T-model that has been slightly modified to better accomodate the new OS (see the recent PDA Buzz blurg about their secret insider info).

I say this without any inside knowledge, but it appears to me the OS is the real star in this delivery. Since the OS won't actually be here on hardware availability day (according to current rumor), it makes the new device a bit of a letdown. But I know I will buy one as soon as the OS upgrade is available.

I can't wait to see what it can do, and I'm sure other developers can't either (HW and SW). We will see lots more optimized hardware over time that can do more powerful things - this is, in my opinion, just the beginning.

RE: It's the OS, stupid
sgingras @ 10/1/2004 12:53:49 PM #
Hmmm...all the info that I have seen states that OS6 will NOT ship on the T5. T5s are shipping with OS 5.4.

How does that affect your argument?


It's the time lag...
JShoo @ 10/1/2004 3:37:57 PM #
I hope that the new T5 _IS_ upgradable to OS6. The thing is that the upgrade will take time. Given how unimpressive the T5 is, I would rather wait and buy OS5 & new hardware at the same time.
RE: It's the time lag...
JShoo @ 10/1/2004 3:43:15 PM #
I meant OS6 at the end of the prior comment
RE: It's the OS, stupid
dnazz @ 10/1/2004 5:32:43 PM #
The question I would like to hear answered is will an OS6 upgrade will be offered to T3 owners?

No cobalt on Treo either
JShoo @ 10/2/2004 4:41:43 AM #
It is interesting and important that the new Treo will not run Cobalt either. Now I don't think ANYONE believes that PalmOne is giving up on the Treo; Treo is what is keeping them alive. To me this says that P1 doesn't think that the old cobalt was worth using; instead they are waiting for the newly released OS 6.1.

As I have said in another posting, the new features in the new cobalt are clearly required in order to run the next generation hardware. So I don't think we can know that P1 has given up on handhelds in order to focus on cell phones. And I don't think we can say that P1 will never produce PPC-killer hardware. Rather right now everything seems to be waiting on the new cobalt.

Personally I am quite happy to keep my T3 for another 6 to 12 months while I wait to see what PalmOne does with the new OS.

Migrating from 320*320 to 320*480

gulmatan @ 10/1/2004 1:58:43 PM #
All this time and talk about Palm's line of 320*480 devices have gotten me thinking. What software (APIs, etc.) do I need to add so that my old software can easil;y be migratred for use on a new 320*480 Palm.

As an example, easch time I buy a ZLauncher/SilverScreen theme, it comes with the additional system file PRCs for 320*480 machines. Although they're named the same, it seems that they're the same files. So, I ask, when this happens, which Hi-Res PRCs would I install or are they all different?

Secondly, on my original question, do I need to get additional display PRCs that are standardized so that my software can be used on with a new 320*480 device?

Matt A.

RE: Migrating from 320*320 to 320*480
LiveFaith @ 10/2/2004 12:09:16 AM #
What you will find is that now many regularly updated apps support 320x480, while older ones will not. As you know the OS handles this automatically.

For progs like SS and many others, developers offer optional PRCs based on the device type (OS5, HR+, Sony yadayada) and this is a good thing, because they are optimized. The "readme" files associated with most software should explain which filename.prc goes with which device. 320x320 HiRes versions may only work in that mode and not in HR+, so you'll be able to tell after you try it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "additional display PRCs that are standardized"? But, if you're asking if all software needs "special" HiRes+ version PRCs, the answer in No. OS5.2.1 on a T3 determines screen mode @ 320x320 or 320x480 on the fly, so all old software works seamlessly. New apps simply access the extra screen real estate when chosen, but old ones work as the did b4.

Don't buy yet, the T3 will get a $50-$100 retail price drop come Monday. And ... if this thing is really the T5, it oughtta be selling on eBay for $225 by Christmas. PalmOne will be doing price drops rapidly trying and clear out the backlog of inventory in stores everywhere. I still can't believe it or accept it!

Pat Horne;

The two clocks are off

omegaphil6 @ 10/1/2004 4:51:53 PM #
In the picture of the unit with the launcher screen. Someone PLEASE tell me why the time on the top left tab on the unit is 7:01 am but the time on the T3-style toolbar reads 9:27???

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this or not yet, but i found this to be quite odd.

RE: The two clocks are off
techinfant @ 10/2/2004 12:15:14 AM #
would 9/27 be the date?

RE: The two clocks are off
The Black Moose @ 10/2/2004 1:42:26 PM #
I'll say this is peculiar. It would not seem to be a date. Nobody I know uses a colon with the date (maybe foreign countries?)

Who has a T3? Is this lower clock simply a date which (oddly enough) favors a colon over a slash? Is it somehow possible to set the second clock for a different time?

Why is it so hard to make?

DavisC @ 10/2/2004 3:16:59 PM #
If this device could just have Wi-Fi, I'd dump my damn PPC device and come running back to Palm. I've been waiting for over two years, and P1 seems to almost, ALMOST, get it right.
Why is this so hard to do?????