Comments on: Toshiba Begins Mass Production of .85 Inch Hard Drives

Toshiba is putting its .85 inch micro hard drives into volume production by the end of the year, ahead of schedule according to the company. Toshiba's tiny hard drive is the first drive to deliver multi-gigabyte storage in a sub-one-inch form factor.
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Match Made In Heaven -- iPod

dmacdonald95 @ 10/1/2004 3:42:54 PM #
These Drives would be great for the iPod. Stick 1 in, and have an ultra iPod Mini, double a few up and you've got yourself a portable Music Player capable of eBook Storage, Backup, and FM Playing Capabilities! (Add a Voice Recorder that records onto one of the Hard-Drives, and it'd be even better!)

Palm Zire -> Palm Zire 31 (in a few weeks ;-))

One SD Slot: Good enough!

CaptMyCapt @ 10/1/2004 4:02:24 PM #
Well if P1 dropped one of these babies into the design of their handhelds, we'd only need one SD slot.

I, Captain

"You will never make progress trying to sail into the wind - chart your course!"

RE: One SD Slot: Good enough!
ardiri @ 10/5/2004 3:26:35 PM #
these harddrives look around the size of an SD card :)

what if the harddrive was enclosed within an SD card housing with pins on it so it could be used "as" an SD card? i guess, it would come down to flash vs harddrive argument - but, when these things get smaller and smaller; anythings possible :)

Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer

We'll never see this...

gfunkmagic @ 10/1/2004 4:24:46 PM #
Sorry, but my belief and expectations from PalmOne are so low right now, that I can't ever see PalmOne utilizing one of these. Heck if they won't even integrate friggin wifi into the T5, why do you think they would integrate a HD?! Ohh...but you say there's a Flash drive with 160 MB free!! Big diddy woop... :(

I support


RE: We'll never see this...
pkuhns @ 10/1/2004 5:04:01 PM #
hmm... doesn't the Tungsten C have WiFi? And didn't Palm just come out with a re-branded WiFi card? And doesn't the Clie TH55 have WiFi? As well as any NX60/70/73/80 with Sony's CF WiFi card? And the Clie TG37 too.

Last time I looked there were a number of WiFi Palms...

And what do we know about the Tungsten 5? ZERO CAUSE IT ISN'T OUT YET. Pop a cold one, wait a week, and stop cryin'.

Nokia 3650 bluetooth magnate

RE: We'll never see this...
LiveFaith @ 10/1/2004 5:04:45 PM #
gfunk ... gfunk,

I know where you're comin' from on the T5. I've stuck my neck out saying that the rumors CAN'T be. Even if they are I won't believe it I don't think. With Sonly out of the pic, HP producing those Darth Vader Pez dispensers and Dell in delay, it was PalmOne's chance to shine.

I think my palm-dreams shall be crushed too, if PalmOne lays an egg Tuesday. Notwithstanding Brutas! :-D

Pat Horne;

RE: We'll never see this...
gfunkmagic @ 10/1/2004 5:15:34 PM #
>>>hmm... doesn't the Tungsten C have WiFi?...

Oh yeah...ONE friggin handheld with wifi that over a year old!! Wonderful, glorious!!, no. And btw, if you haven't noticed, Sony bailed the NA market a while ago...ergo no support from them. If the T5 specs are true and PalmOne actually royally screws up with no integrated wifi, then I'll have absolutley no faith in them...Godforesake the Treo though cuz I hope like hell they don't screw that line like they're doing the Tungsten...

I support


RE: We'll never see this...
just_little_me @ 10/1/2004 7:45:16 PM #
They've apparently screwed the Treo650 with it's palty 20MB available storage... :-(


RE: We'll never see this...
smap77 @ 10/1/2004 8:34:54 PM #
Am I missing something here with the current threads of "not enough storage"? I mean, my TT with a 256 MB SD more than sastifies my storage needs--Plucker, AvantGo, Warfare Inc, Kinoma, and Aeroplayer take up some room, surely, but not the whole thing, certainly.

My Question: What do people store on their Palm that requires so much memory? (Or is it just bitchinjustforbitchins sake?)

RE: We'll never see this...
Strider_mt2k @ 10/2/2004 7:37:16 AM #
Some of us have pursued machines that can play music or video files.

Those files, or groups of them require alot of storage space.

RE: We'll never see this...
PilotMad @ 10/2/2004 5:43:35 PM #
Dear P1 while you're adding one of these babies to the (T100 zzzz..) if i haven't died by then. PLEASE make sure they're hot swappable so i can upgrade without buying a new machine.

Just my two cents ...

Palm Nirvana or bust!

RE: We'll never see this...
CaptMyCapt @ 10/3/2004 8:12:35 PM #
Yes, smap77, you are missing something. Space (memory card) has always been the final frontier. Look at the HD space that was available to PC users a couple decades ago, and look at it now. Look at where memory cards started. I just purchased a 1G SD card, and I'm happy for the moment. I use it for apps, music, and at least two feature movies for business trips. Without the movies I was maxing out a 512. You know how the saying goes, "build it and they will come." So, now matter how spacious cards become, someone will find a way to use it up.

I, Captain

"You will never make progress trying to sail into the wind - chart your course!"

RE: We'll never see this...
ardiri @ 10/5/2004 3:29:52 PM #
    Oh yeah...ONE friggin handheld with wifi that over a year old!!

Sony UX50, Sony TH55 - not just the Tungsten|C has wifi.

Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer

RE: We'll never see this...
gfunkmagic @ 10/5/2004 4:25:35 PM #
>>>>Sony UX50, Sony TH55 - not just the Tungsten|C has wifi.

Yeah, but I was referring to PalmOne specifically. Besides Sony left the market...

Also, how the heck do you italicize on the front page discussions anyway?

I support


Super Micro HD + Mobile Devices = Not Practical

dhchung @ 10/2/2004 4:39:58 PM #
Mini-ipod, Muvo2 are popular since they are physically smaller than other MP3 players with mass storages.
However, as flash drive manufacturers keep on introducing larger capacity drive, capacity will not be the biggest concern for consumers (think about a 10GB MP3 player with a 100GB one).
The concerns go to drive's reliability, speed (for camera users), and power consumption.
I can't see the Toshiba HD winning any of these.
I never dare to shake my Canon G5 camera greatly since I am using a microdrive. It's fragile. And it'll be worse on the Toshiba drive.

RE: Super Micro HD + Mobile Devices = Not Practical
RhinoSteve @ 10/2/2004 8:48:14 PM #
You got that right. A Micro-sized hard disk has no place in a PDA. The usage scenarios are just way too different for a flat file system to work with a PDA. Flash is where it is and the minority that tries to pack their entire life in a PDA can wine. The real majority of people that buy this T5 will love it.

* Very very few people use WiFi on a PDA. Why?? Several reasons:
-- PDA screens are to small for the amount of data that you get from most WiFi terminals.
-- PDA input is not dynamic enough to place in enough data to make it useful.
-- WiFi was never designed with PDAs or any other handhelds in mind. Power consumption is always an issue.

* Dual WiFi / Bluetooth hot spots are becomming more common. If you want a LAN and a PDA, think Bluetooth and not WiFi.

* The T5 will sell VERY well since it hits what most people want:
-- Thin
-- Big display
-- Good looking and low profile docking connector
-- Better battery
-- MUCH better memory retention.

If you want WiFi, get a T-C -- the best selling enterprise PDA of all time! -- or a WiFi card for your T5.

PalmOne has another winner and the moaners here can just kiss off.

RE: Super Micro HD + Mobile Devices = Not Practical
gfunkmagic @ 10/2/2004 10:30:18 PM #
>>>>Very very few people use WiFi on a PDA....

Where on earth did you get that stat. Do you mean from users of PalmOne devices? Well, maybe that's b/c there is ONLY ONE DEVICE FROM PALMONE WITH INTEGRATED WIFI!! Good grief, I don't understand all these naysaysers who are telling everyone else that they don't need wifi on their PDA's. Almost every major midrange and highend PPC has integrated wifi and even Sony added wifi to many of it's clies before it left the market. The lame excuse that wifi is not useful for PDA's is a weak and fradulent statement!!

>>>>PalmOne has another winner and the moaners here can just kiss off.

Sheesh, and people accuse me of being a Palmie fanboy! Dude, users here have a completely valid concern over the pathetic support PalmOne has given to wifi funtionality in it's handhelds. Alot of long time users here are completely fed up with Palmone continually falling short of expectations with their new handhelds. In this respect, I am very sorry to see the demise of Sony in the PalmOS market outside of Japan. The T5 with it's listed rumored specs for $400 is absolutely ridculous imo. I don't understand how the P1 marketing 'geniuses' can think they can get away with this at this price point. If it was priced a humdred bucks lower and marketed as a TE2, then it would be totally different...but it is not unfortunately...

>>>>>You got that right. A Micro-sized hard disk has no place in a PDA. The usage scenarios are just way too different for a flat file system to work with a PDA. no wifi and no micro-HD for pdas!! Hey at least you're being consistant!!! -_-

I support


Hard drives vs. Flash memory
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/2/2004 11:14:56 PM #
For those keeping score at home:

Gekko = +1
RhinoSteve = -2

Any PDA released in 2004 should have integrated Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and at least 64 MB of user-accessible RAM. Period. Anything less is simply unacceptable. If Palm tries to Palm off any new release without INTEGRATED Wi-Fi (sorry, coupons for 50% off the Wi-Fi SD card don't count in a device with just a single expansion slot) they deserve the fallout this will bring.

After trying out some of the latest PPCs, I'm now convinced that while Microsoft's user interface is still lacking compared to Palm's, I doubt people will be able to resist the PPC hardware and prices much longer.

The advent of these new monster sized flash cards obviates the need for micro hard drives. In portable devices, no moving parts always beats moving parts. After filling up TWO 1 GB Memory Sticks with movies, MP3, etc., I'll be looking out for these puppies when they arrive.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Super Micro HD + Mobile Devices = Not Practical
BimBoy @ 10/3/2004 10:02:43 AM #
I think you mean "any [u][i]flagship[/i][/u] pda released in 2004 should have wifi and bt", and I wholeheartedly agree. Sony leaves, releiving the pressure on P1 to innovate, and they simply kick back and release same ole meager updates.

Back to the new micro HDD.. I wonder if these can be implemented in existing memory formats, and not be a means to yet another format to be released. They already have a promising future in the form of cameras and m3 players.

RE: Super Micro HD + Mobile Devices = Not Practical
RhinoSteve @ 10/3/2004 4:07:13 PM #
I knew this would create a firestorm. Well here is my view.

-- Guys like you are not worth supporting. If you want a "all mondo PDA" you are going to put in a WiFi card and load it up with OS patches. You are in the minority. You are not a computer user, you are a consumer electronic user and that is how PalmOne is selling this.

-- Sure, other branded PDAs have WiFi but guess what? Once they are purchased, WiFi is not used very much at all. It is a novelity that it is "geek cool" to have but proves not to be useful.

-- The rumored T5 in fact hits all the points of what is needed by most of the market and not the "ubergeeks" that bitch and moan on this site. Again, you guys don't matter in volume sales. If things were done right in your view, you'd bitch about something else like a lack of designer colors or the battery not running a double shift. Oh, and then you'd only buy one unit.

Man, a beer and reading this list is more amusing than the wackos that go to coffeeshops and only concentrate on their laptops as they refuse to make conversation with the people on the table next to them. (Hope at least one guy is reading this is at a coffee shop and looks up to notice the real world around him.)

Also, I don't recognize the authority of any scorekeeper here. Impressing geeks don't make money. Selling to masses that have a social life does.

RE: Super Micro HD + Mobile Devices = Not Practical
dhchung @ 10/3/2004 8:49:39 PM #
Guys, newest PDAs offer Wifi or any other features doesn't mean the user really needs them. I would say it's a feature to attract consumers rather than real benefit to them. Think of T3 400MHz CPU, almost no programs can utilize it except for emulators for games.
My conclusion is that some additional features are marketing hype and may not be useful in real life. I agree the three reasons that the other person of this topic said about why wifi is not and will not be popular.

Regarding to the super microdrive issue, it will not be useful as well:
1. The price for now is too expensive
2. The drive consumer more energy and more fragile compared to flash card
3. When the price of the super microdrive drop, the flash price will drop as well, making multigigabyte flash memory affordable for general consumers.
For the other side of the token, of course we can't ignore the demand of mass storage in the future mobile market.

Memory types and how Palm needs to re-invent itself.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/7/2004 5:13:23 AM #
I think you mean "any [u][i]flagship[/i][/u] pda released in 2004 should have wifi and bt", and I wholeheartedly agree. Sony leaves, releiving the pressure on P1 to innovate, and they simply kick back and release same ole meager updates.

Actually, I meant exactly what I said. ALL PDAs released this year should have come with at least integrated Bluetooth, 802.11b/g and 64 MB of RAM. It takes around $15 worth of parts to include those features. High end PDAs ($400 +) should have also been adding 4 inch OLED screens, 256 MB RAM, dual expansion slots (CF and SD or Memory Stick) and improved battery life.

Unfortunately, people's expectations are now so low that Palm and company have been able to continue serving up moldy, re-warmed leftovers. With innovation nonexistent, it's no wonder the PDA market is moribund.

Imagine a CLIE UX50 style unit with Palm OS 6, 4 inch OLED screen, 6 hour battery life, MP3 player, 1.3 MP camera that can also shoot videos, voice recorder, Divx/MPEG player, integrated 802.11b/g and Bluetooth, 256 MB RAM, Documents To Go, email software and web browser. Can you say laptop replacement? That's where the platform needed to move to in order to ensure its survival. If you want to push Palms as just an organizer, a $60 basic monochrome Zire already fills that function very well without the added cost + complexity.

Smartphones may soon bring in more money than PDAs to Palm, but Palm seems to be giving up on the PDA market far too easily. Palm needs to cover these niches:

- Ultra-basic monochrome organizer - $50
- Basic color unit - $150
- Midline color unit - $250
- Higher end Tungsten C style PDA with keyboard - $300
- High end model with all the bells and whistles - $400
- Ultra-basic Treo - $99 with contract
- High end Treo - $250 with contract

And to the clueless poster above: Hard drives are pointless in (often-abused) PDAs, since flash memory is durable and can now be had in decent sizes for reasonable prices. Most people that use + abuse their PDAs would likely take a 2 GB Compact Flash card over these fragile hard drives any day.

Palm's missing a big opportunity to advertise themselves as an "iPod-killer"/laptop replacement/portable movie player/"Blackberry-killer"/web browser all rolled into one. Pity.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Super Micro HD = USELESS
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/8/2004 10:56:18 PM #
One thing worth noting is that unless the hard drive type storage media is dirt cheap, it will go the way of obsolete, poor-value technolgy like Zip drives. When IBM came out with the original CompactFlash MicroDrives a few years ago, the amount of data thef could store was several factors beyond that of the biggest regular CompactFlash cards. That was their main (only?) advantage. Unless the new hard drive media came in huge (10 GB) sizes or cost less than half what regular memory costs it will be a massive flop.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

WE can feed the hungry too

e_tellurian @ 10/4/2004 2:18:22 PM #
Ryan, good info.

Some see value in .85-inch hard drives.

Eh i was on the bus today and they have many signs on a bus too. Some signs were asking to donate money to the hungry. i threw a loony at the sign it bounced off without leaving any value except a bump on a passenger¡¦s head (jk).

Some emerging technology will offer the choice to help feed the hungry while traveling on the bus too.




completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution

RE: WE can feed the hungry too
mrantisocial_3 @ 10/11/2004 9:57:06 AM #
>>>>>>>>>Very very few people use WiFi on a PDA.

That is the most retarded statement i have heard in a long time. Almost every ppc has wifi. Many games and apps use wifi on the ppc. And u said its not useful. How the hell is checking ur email anywhere not useful. The verdict is simple. If u want an organizer get a palm. If you want a full fledged multimedia device that can connect to other computers and pdas wirelessly get a ppc. I am never buying another palm. Not just because they suck. My T|E broke 4 times 3/4 they came broken. It was a piece of crap that literally fell apart. Now I got a palm with a broken button and the cheep ass paint is coming off from using the buttons to much. I HATE U PALM!



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