Comments on: Rumor: Treo 650 Launch Details Revealed

A new article on the palmOne Treo 650 Smartphone article has been published on InternetNews.com. The piece extensively quotes a palmOne marketing director who confirms previous details and reveals most of the upcoming features of the new Treo 650.
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oops! posted that too soon...

pkuhns @ 10/18/2004 1:52:50 PM #
Thank you Internet News (whoever you are). Don't think this was supposed to post yet.

Bye Bye PDAs and Nokia... hello Treo 650!

Nokia 3650 bluetooth magnate

RE: oops! posted that too soon... Removed Already
morningstar1844 @ 10/18/2004 10:40:29 PM #
I think that they have remove the link already! I am glad that Palm Infocenter got it posted before the link disappered! I did not notice the smile before (allows for the larger and flatter keys, that's good)


Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings

hkklife @ 10/18/2004 1:52:10 PM #
That's a nice & informative article on the 650. Well, at least that confirms all of the rumors and sheds some light on the fact that P1 is putting everything they have into the Treo line instead of the Tungstens. However, I also find this a bit worrying. Out of all of the new P1 product released in '04, the Z31, T5 and 650 are just "tweaks" to existing models. The Zire 72 has been the only totally new one and it doesn't seem to be setting the world on fire from a user satisfaction or sales standpoint at all. Where is all of the R&D $ going? Just as how '01 and '02 seemed dark days for Palm Inc. before their super-strong '03, hopefully '04 is just a bump in the road before we start to see some seriously nice hardware in '05. Also, why do I keep hearing rumors of the Tungsten line being phased or complimented by a Veld? It's the rumor that will not die! You know, it would make sense for Zire & Tungsten lines to share cases/designs and just use the presence of wireless & cameras to differentiate them. Then have the Veld line be the "hardcore" high-margin power user line, like Nokia's Vertu (in theory, not in pricetag) or Maybach is to Benz.

More reo T650 thoughts:

I am still curious to see if the built-in camera will be Zire72 quality or a bit better.
I personally wouldn't be as upset over having the Athena connector replace the old Treo connector as I am with the loss of the UC on the Tungsten line. In general, people buy fewer peripherals for smartphones than for dedicated handhelds anyway. The Treo line combined also sold far, far fewer units than m500s-->T3s over the past three years.
WILL this thing have all of the bugs of OS 5.4.x worked out??? Finally, the question of wi-fi drivers for the P1 SDIO card remains but we *all* know the answer to that one, right? ("Our users don't feel this is a necessary feature" etc etc)

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
LiveFaith @ 10/18/2004 2:31:35 PM #
The article talks about "flash memory" aka the T5. If Gekko and company are right about their bug and speed assumptions on the T5, then this may not be good news? If a reset takes :30+ and universal searches have to trudge thru slow flash memory, then P1 is taking a big step backwards IMO.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
half full @ 10/18/2004 2:40:55 PM #
Man, I'm glad this baby is finally (almost) here. Thanks, let's go, sign me up. If the next update (6xx)is worth it I will re-up, if not I won't. Has this forum degraded to nothing more than a btch session? Hey folks, here is a news flash. IT'S THEIR COMPANY NOT YOURS! They do what they want. You all talk (see the T5 discussion) like you are share-holders or something, worring about the stock price, whether they are on the brink of disaster, the market share, how they should do their updates, blah blah blah...

Do you give your local supermarket this much crap with their products?? IF YOU DON'T LIKE A PRODUCT, DON'T BUY IT. MOVE ON, QUIT COMPLAINING.

I feel better already.


RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
hkklife @ 10/18/2004 2:58:44 PM #
Yup, I cringe to think about numerous "doom & gloom" scenarios offered up by forcing Flash memory on us for the main RAM. With SD prices as low as they are these days, there's NO reason for flash in the unit's main RAM. I still am dumbfounded these days when a n00b will post on PIC or Brighthand "Hi, I just got a new Zire but I cannot afford a SD card. Please tell me how to store a few low bitrate MP3s in my main memory" I mean, I recently bought a 64mb SD card for backup purposes for $9 shipped. P1 should just assume that anyone who can afford to buy a pricey Tungsten or Treo will have at least one SD card or will be one with their new unit. How about instead of this slow flash memory P1 incorporates a "RAM dump to SD" backup feature right into the OS?

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
gfunkmagic @ 10/18/2004 4:32:32 PM #
>>>>>Also, why do I keep hearing rumors of the Tungsten line being phased or complimented by a Veld?

I've never heard of this until you just mentioned it and quite honestly don't believe it...


>>>>In general, people buy fewer peripherals for smartphones than for dedicated handhelds anyway.

Huh? How do you know that? I've purchased two cradles, three different cables, chargers, an extrenal battery sled, etc for my Treo...

>>>>The Treo line combined also sold far, far fewer units than m500s-->T3s over the past three years.

Please post a link to this info. While the volume of units may be lower than other handhelds, I believe the average selling price per unit is much higher for the Treo than other devieces...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
treo007 @ 10/18/2004 5:02:15 PM #
Yea, I've got to admit that I'm not necessarily that excited about this. Why? Well, some initial thoughts:

Screen - The higher resolution requires a faster processor, which in-turn depletes battery life faster. Will the new battery hold up as well as that on the 600, or is this reason for the swapple option in the 650? Besides, I don't necessarily have a problem with the 600's screen at it's current resolution.

Bluetooth - Now, don't get me wrong. Bluetooth is obviously a great option; however, I'd really like to use my 600 to play mp3's in the car via a cassette adapter. I also happen to have a BT handsfree kit in my car. I somehow doubt I can use both. Might as well just stick with the 600 and 2-in-1 headphones.

Accessories - PalmOne charges enough for cradles, power options, etc. I don't want to have to buy 1) a cradle for home, 2) a cradle for the office, 3) DC Adapters for each, 4) a power cable for my cigarette lighter. Starts to add up.

I will say that the new Versamail (with Exchange use built-in) and the EDGE capability sound like nice additions. It's just not enough to get me to go through the cost and hassle of upgrading.

Here's what would have done it:

- WiFi (yes, it's been beaten to death, but for a reason);

- A BT car kit that plays audio & GPS instructions;

- More memory. Heck, if it had the same amount of memory as the T5, I could even overlook the lack of WiFi if it meant I could use the WiFi card;

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
Gekko @ 10/18/2004 5:08:46 PM #
hey 'half-full' - we are customers. we have the right to complain. and P1/S has the right to ignore us. and we have the right not to buy their products. and they have the right to go out of business.

http://www.infomaticsonline.co.uk/analysis/1144378

"The customer is not an interuption of our work, but the purpose of it." - Ray Kroc, McDonald's

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
tellit2be @ 10/18/2004 6:14:42 PM #
You're only a customer if you BUY the product...in this case, if you BUY the T5, THEN you can complain about it. Half Full is right...let them run the company the way they choose - if they have plans to take the company in a direction other than the Tungsten line, that's their choice. That's what the R&D teams are for - to research and develope the products they think will do the best for the company. If they see more profit in the future for smart phones, then they will put more money into developing that, and take money away from developing PDA's --- leading to a product such as the T5: minimal upgrades.
RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
tellit2be @ 10/18/2004 6:19:20 PM #
Sorry, I forgot to say: if you choose NOT to buy the product, you don't really have a right to complain because you're not a customer of THAT product. (Yeah yeah, we've all bought a Palm product before, but not many have chosen NOT to buy the T5, so they shouldn't btch about it). If you're not happy with what they put out, don't freakin' buy it...but don't cry about it either.
RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
JKingGrim @ 10/18/2004 6:27:22 PM #
there's NO reason for flash in the unit's main RAM


Sure there is. Flash ram helps get PalmOne out of dual wireless and dual expanision. The problem is that if the device (such as the T3) only has one slot and BT, if you put a wifi card in it, you wont have and flash RAM. You wouldn't be able to download large files or email files from the card. Therefore having a filesystem in RAM solves this problem. Putting in dual wireless or dual slots might please us, but it would raise the price, and the mainstream users wouldn't buy. Not everyone needs a dual wireless PDA. Now you might say that this problem could easily be solved by just putting in more RAM and using part of that as a ramdisk, but then you would get dismal standby batt life. It is also a nice feature that you wont lose your data. I like the idea.

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
hkklife @ 10/18/2004 6:31:19 PM #
Gfunk, I have no "hard" numbers to support my claim but it's just plain common sense. Take all of the m500s, m125/130s, i705s, T|Ws, T|Cs, Zire 71s and various T|Ts released since '01. All have had the UC onboard. Now consider the relatively small amount of original Treo 180s and 300s sold by Handspring and then all of the Treo 600s by HS & P1. I think it's safe to assume that there are more UC-enabled handhelds and peripherals out there than there are Treo accessories. I never was speaking in terms of total $ generated in regards to peripherals sold. Just the number of UC-equipped units in the market vs. Treo-connector units out there.

Additionally, the Treo connector never enjoyed much outside support as far as things like Stowaway keyboards.

Finally, I'm siding with Gekko on the other debate here. I've put plenty of $ in the Palm coffers over the years and done my best to steer people towards the platform that I felt best suited their needs. Gekko, myself, and everyone else here has a right to voice whever opinions we wish about the Palm platform. Have any of you pundits ever considered that there are plenty of eyes from P1/PalmSource that watch these sites & forums as a way of getting some FREE valuable market insight? Granted, the eggheads here may only comprise a small percentage of the total Palm user base worldwide but I challenge you to find a more or more vocal group of users on a single site (at least in the mobile computing world). Remember, many of us here have been w/ the platform since 96/97 and have "seen it all" so to speak.



RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
Gekko @ 10/18/2004 6:44:50 PM #
tellit - I'll complain at length as I see fit. That's what these forums are for. if you don't like my posts, don't read them, kind sir.

hkk - thanks for the back up.



RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
justauser @ 10/18/2004 8:19:59 PM #
I agree. Anyway, it'd be a pretty boring site if every comment simply said "new T5 - the T is for Terrific!" or "Treo 650, wow that's a bigger number than 600!" I say, trash talk the products. It’s the only way the average user who visits this site can make an informed decision about their future purchases. And besides, I have carried the flame for Palm for 7 years now amidst devoted PPC fans. I don’t want to hold aloft my brand new T$ only to be laughed at. I’d prefer to hear its shortcomings here first. You should be thanking these guys. You won't hear informed opinions like these from the teenage geek salesmen in the stores.

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
tellit2be @ 10/19/2004 2:17:30 AM #
Wow, Gekko, you sure don't take criticism very well yourself. I was just voicing MY opinion when siding with Half Full. Anyway, you may be right...Palm researchers may sit and read a few btchy complaints about their product here on P.I.C. - and the end result? The T5. Way to go.

Funny how you can voice your opinion about something, but when someone offers up a different one, you shoot them down and call them names, *******. Welcome back to the third grade I guess.

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
mikecane @ 10/19/2004 8:57:30 AM #
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
LiveFaith @ 10/19/2004 11:32:48 AM #
Mike,
If the previous post is right ... that aint Napalm your smellin'!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
joej @ 10/19/2004 11:44:48 AM #
Moderators - could something please be done about the language on this site (especially this thread)? I am not happy about my palm-interested kids being exposed to this stuff. Also, you run the risk of getting this site blocked by the numerous filters out there and thereby decreasing your readership.

Please, could everyone keep it clean???? If you want to rant and profane at each other at the same time perhaps you could exchange phone numbers or email addresses and do it in private.

I suspect someone will blast me with free-speech rhetoric. I support free speech. But just remember that not all PIC readers are adults.

Thanks

Newton. Sharp Mobilon. Psion 5, 5mx. Visor Deluxe. Clie N760. Palm Personal, III, T, T2, T3. SE t68i on T-Mo.

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
Alpha1220 @ 10/19/2004 11:49:27 AM #
Not that I am for disclosing personal details on the internet or anything, but I just wanted to say in response to the much earlier asanine post, that I am actually a shareholder in the company ... and a relatively large stake one at that. Does that mean I get more credence if I bitch?

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
Scott R @ 10/19/2004 1:34:03 PM #
Complaining is a good thing, at least when the complaints are specific and well thought out. The potential concern about this new flash RAM is certainly a valid one, IMO.

I'll probably end up getting one of these things, though I'd much prefer to see a clamshell phone a la the Motorola A630 running the Palm OS. Oh well, maybe one day. Hopefully there are some neat Treo devices with different form factors that they've kept a big secret. If not, I echo the comments questioning just what they've been doing in terms of R&D over the last year. Rest assured, Nokia isn't sitting still.

Scott

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musi
Tere @ 10/19/2004 4:34:04 PM #

Huh??? We can't complain unless we buy??? Yeah, right...

BTW, tellit, all Gekko called you was "kind sir." And you're
calling *him* thin skinned! :)

- Tere

half full wrote:
>IF YOU DON'T LIKE A PRODUCT, DON'T BUY IT. MOVE ON, QUIT
>COMPLAINING.

tellit2be wrote:
>You're only a customer if you BUY the product...in this case,
>if you BUY the T5, THEN you can complain about it. Half Full
>is right...let them run the company the way they choose

and:
>Sorry, I forgot to say: if you choose NOT to buy the product,
>you don't really have a right to complain because you're not
>a customer of THAT product.

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
Ezra4no1 @ 10/20/2004 3:20:20 AM #
I agree with some of the comments here about P1 lack of effort in their PDAs. P1 seems to be betting the "farm" on the Treo line and giving little effor on anything else.

I also must agree with anothers comment on how P1 can do whatever they want and how we the "consumers" and "customers" shouldn't complain. WE are their blood line. They exist because WE BUY THEIR Products and if the majority of WE think their products are beginning to suck or lack they THEY can lose repeat business from many of their current customers.

I personally believe that P1 has a responsibility to KEEP MAKING GREAT PDAs which they seem to be lacking and ignoring for the sake of a current trend. P1 is a PDA company first and they should always remember this and address this. Where would their Treo be if it weren't for current Palm Users or their PDA Based OS? I personally believe they could have a better Smart Phone if they keep concentrating on their Core Business and expand the PDA into new areas while pushing the boundaries of the smartphone industry.

But hey.. What the heck do I know? I'm just a person who spends his money on the products that I LIKE.

RE: Paving the way for the Veld?..and assorted Treo 650 musings
half full @ 10/21/2004 12:19:16 PM #
I was just suprised that we finally get some real traction with the future of the 650, it looks like a real upgrade. I know I have been waiting for BT and higher resolution before I buy. Yet right out of the box we get comments ranting about what they didn't do etc. Complaining is ok, it is just that I see so much of it, here there and everywhere. I am growing weary.

The world is so full of complainers, I guess that it is just so damn easy to find fault in anything. Can't we see the cup half-full just once in a while?

So here I am ranting and complaining about complainers. See how easy that was!


Flash memory size?

Wolfgard @ 10/18/2004 3:16:40 PM #
I had a chat with some Palm dealers a couple of weeks ago and they were quite sure the Treo 650 has 64mb worth of internal memory. I wonder where they got that info.

pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72
RE: Flash memory size?
Felipe @ 10/18/2004 8:59:32 PM #
32 ram
32 backup



Molasses Flash?

Gekko @ 10/18/2004 3:18:40 PM #
>"More important, Flash memory storage not only accommodates battery switching, but ensures that data won't be lost if the charge is."

Molasses Flash? Oh no, not again.



Yay! Edge confirmed! :)

gfunkmagic @ 10/18/2004 4:29:59 PM #
The most interesting bit of info imo is the confirmation that the GSM version of the Treo 650/Ace will support EDGE data connectivity! That's good news for gsm users, and combined with BT support, these features should help the Treo in the European markets...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Yay! Edge confirmed! :)
IanJD @ 10/18/2004 7:47:26 PM #
Not a lot of Edge in Europe at the moment, unfortunately, and very little planned by the look of it, apart from in France and Italy. :(

We have got a good amount of 3G coverage though, so this time next year we'll be waiting for the videophoning Treo.

RE: Yay! Edge confirmed! :)
Calroth @ 10/18/2004 10:57:04 PM #
The obvious flaw with video-conferencing being, of course, that the camera is on the wrong side of the device.
RE: Yay! Edge confirmed! :)
IanJD @ 10/19/2004 4:23:45 AM #
Which is why videophones have either two cameras, or a swivelling camera.

Looks like the article's been pulled...

Marshall Flinkman @ 10/18/2004 6:08:02 PM #
I just tried to reread it and got a blank page.

Future Treo

JKingGrim @ 10/18/2004 6:37:21 PM #
I think I'll take the time to request a future Treo. It worked for the T5 didnt it? The T5 is exactly what we wanted two years ago. Tablet design, HVGA, bluetooth ect. Well, two years from now I'll probably get a smartphone, so hopefully it will be out by then. ;)

Candybar form factor (same as 600 and 650)
320x480 screen (no keypad) if possible OLED
128mb flash RAM
USB drive functionality (like the T5)
bluetooth
d-pad, 4 app buttons, pickup/hangup buttons
athena connector (like the T5)
SD card slot
LARGE removable batt
Palm OS Cobalt 6.x

What do ya think?

RE: Future Treo
JonathanChoo @ 10/19/2004 6:03:11 AM #
I think we will need the keypad. One handed operation is essential for mobile phones. I can think of situations where I rather use the keypad to type out a SMS rather than using grafitti (eg. standing in the train).
RE: Future Treo
hkklife @ 10/19/2004 9:42:16 AM #
I'd personally love to see an arrangement sorta like the old Kyocera 7235 but in a candybar formfactor. 320*480 screen on the Treo and have the only hard buttons as the numberic pad with # & *, Send, End, and the usual Palm d-pad and hard app launch buttons. Oh, and a voice recorder button on the side!

I do NOT enjoy dialing phone numbers on a touchscreen as that is just asking for smudges on the screen. I am fine composing a quick SMS using multiple numeric key presses ala regular cell phones. For longer compositions I'd just use Graffiti or the onscreen keyboard. Basically, I would rather have more screen real estate as the expense of most of the keyboard.

A flip Treo would be nice but given P1's recent history of shaky hardware , I think we're better off keeping the moving parts to a minimum. I do think the extending T|T stylus would make a nice item to standardize on across the board. It remains the best PDA stylus arrangement to date IMHO.

RE: Future Treo
LiveFaith @ 10/19/2004 11:35:05 AM #
JKingGrim,

Just hang on buddy. The Treo 800g is soon to follow ...

http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800g.jpg



Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Future Treo
JKingGrim @ 10/19/2004 7:22:56 PM #
**DROOL**

External antenna on the Treo 650? What is this - 1994?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/20/2004 1:08:13 AM #
Any phone STILL packing an external antenna in 2004 deserves to bomb.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Future Treo
Texonite @ 10/20/2004 8:39:51 PM #
Does anyone care about antenna?

____________________
Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(
RE: Future Treo
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/21/2004 10:36:40 PM #
Does anyone care about antenna?

Ask yourself why Nokia and Sony Ericsson dumped external antennas. And why they make the hottest cellphones you can buy.

External antennas suggest laziness on the part of the phone designers.

Take a look at these phones and ask yourself what they would look like with an external antenna stuck on:

http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=us&lc=en&ver=4000&template=pp1&zone=pp&lm=pp




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Future Treo
Strider_mt2k @ 10/22/2004 2:08:05 PM #
There is no getting around it.
Internal antennas NEVER perform as well as external antennas. Ya just gotta get those things out there!

What it boils down to is what works for you in your area with your provider.



Pre-Bitches

timepilot84 @ 10/19/2004 1:30:43 PM #
I say, trash talk the products. It’s the only way the average user who visits this site can make an informed decision about their future purchases.

As an "average" user who's come to visit this site regularly, I can say with authority that the average user visiting this site will view the overly negative and obsessive opinions here, and dismiss them out of hand. Internet curmudgeons rarely bring useful info to the table and most people are smart enough to realize that. Simply because one posts frequently doesn't lend one any credibility.

RE: Pre-Bitches
Gekko @ 10/19/2004 2:54:19 PM #

Companies love dumb customers. The dumber, the better.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid!

Jeff 'n' Donna flavor Kool-Aid... Delicious!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/20/2004 1:11:53 AM #
Some of the Palm Kultists here would probably drink Jeff 'n' Donna's urine if they started bottling it tomorrow.


UrineCola™! Yummy! Thanks, Mommy!



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Pre-Bitches
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/21/2004 10:48:32 PM #
UrineCola™! Tastes best when freshly squeezed.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

"...a family of smartphones due in the Fall..."

IsLNdbOi @ 10/19/2004 11:06:05 PM #
"palmOne's CEO Todd Bradley has repeatedly mentioned that they are developing a family of smartphones due in the Fall."

If they are due in the fall, we probably won't be able to get our hands on them here in the US from any carrier until late next year. :(

RE: The close-knit Treo family of brainyphones
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/20/2004 1:16:16 AM #
As you know, some "families" have only one member still alive. So technically, he's not lying.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

How much would it cost?

powerhouse @ 10/20/2004 1:45:51 AM #
Does anybody know how much this would cost? Also would the initial release have unlocked versions? Treo 600s sell on ebay for USD390-430, unlocked.

RE: How much would it cost?
RogerV @ 10/23/2004 7:34:27 PM #
PCMag lists Treo 650 as $599.00 (call for details) on their PC Connection page (PG 40) in the new November issue I received today.

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