Comments on: palmOne Reports Q2 FY05 Financial Numbers
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RE: Good news!
More likely P1 has ceded the high end datacentric device market to the PPC vendors in favor of the growth (survival) market. I hope I don't have to switch to the dark side for a high end PDA.
Nevertheless, survival is the 1st order of biz, not pleasing psychotic enthusiasts like me.
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Good news!
Yeah, imagine them actually going after the core customers WHO MADE THEM and their fat paychecks and corporate looting possible!
Wow.
1) GAAP income = ???
2) If the whisperings about Palm having an inventory glut are correct + if carriers have already bought all the Treos they'll be needing for the next few months, Palm may have traded a rosy Q2 report for a disastrous Q3 report. Only time will tell.
3) Besides the Treo lineup, Palm has little innovative hardware and has clearly lost momentum to PPC hardware manufacturers. While the $200 (the PDA "sweet spot") Tungsten E may sell well for now, Palm won't be able to keep fooling the masses with their anemic high end ($400) offerings.
4) Quality control issues. If the QC disaster isn't addressed, Palm will continue to see astronomical return rates (some Treo owners have had their Treos replaced between 5 and 10 times in less than a year due to manufacturing defects!). Who pays for defective hardware? We do.
If Palm posts an honest (no shell games) Q3, I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong and that they actually know what they're doing. For now, I'll keep hoping that this suggestion of a turnaround is real and will result in better quality hardware for us all. Wall Street appears dubious.
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
RE: Wow.
I have a feeling P1 has a glut of Treo 600s but if they are shrewd enough with discounting and offerng software updates to bring the 600's functionality up to at leat a level near the 650 e-mail and browser-wise, they can ride that one out. A glut of Treo 600s is still a better situation than a glut of ancient mono Vxs or m500s.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them cap Treo 650 production earlier than ancticipated and put out a 'bugfix' model (T660?) with 64mb or 128mb ram and a few more minor tweaks.
RE: Wow.
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
palmOne has a lot of catching up to do
Second, palmOne needs to start working with Third Party Software makers in order to ensure that the final version of the released product will be 100% compatible with the third party's products. I don't want another episode of Decuma On-Spot, where the software crashes just about every program on the book or another episode of the Bits N' Bolts, where they've been announcing a Handheld-level anomaly.
Third, palmOne (though much to my opposition to use Hi Res Plus Screens on lower-end handhelds) needs to start using Hi-Res Plus Screens on NOT JUST the Tungsten T7 (upcoming), or just the high-end handhelds. IT'S ALL TUNGSTEN HANDHELDS that palmOne need to start using Hi-Res Plus screens. A Tungsten E2 with a Multi-Connector, 320x480 Hi-Res Plus Screen, and even 50MB useable volatile memory would be great for $200. For the next Tungsten Mid-Level Handheld, I would like to see the return of the Voice Memo, Vibrate on Alarm, and Dual-SDIO/SD/MMC Slots in addition to the Multi-Connector, and please no more NVFS. I'm getting sick and tired of NVFS because of this Flash Memory Controversy that has been running rampant since the announcement of the Tungsten T5 and Treo 650. Oh, all Tungstens need at least Bluetooth. For the Tungsten T7, Built-In Wi-Fi will kick butt. I no longer want to see a terrible-value palmOne handheld and I don't want to see palmOne make that same mistake with a "Built-In Drive" handheld without the vibrate and/or charge indicator (All Tungstens need Vibrate on Alarm and Charge Indicator). For the Tungsten C2, all the features of my proposed Tungsten T7 PLUS a 480x640 screen.
For the Tungstens:
Tungsten E: 320x480 Hi Res Plus with Active Input, IRDA and Bluetooth, Vibrate and Charge Indicators, Multi-Connector, 64MB (50 MB Useable) "Classic" Memory (NO MORE NVFS OK?), Motorola ARM-Compliant Processor (I'm sick and tired of all these Intel Processors being used) for $200.
Tungsten T7: A fixed Tungsten T5 with 128MB (100 Useable) "Classic" Memory (Again NO MORE NVFS, NO MORE BUILT-IN THUMB DRIVES), Voice Memo, Vibrate, Charge Indicator, Housed in Metal, Multi-Connector, using a Yamaha Audio Processor, using an ATI Video Chip, Dual SD/SDIO/MMC Slots, and using a Motorola ARM-Compliant Processor with Bluetooth, IRDA, and Wi-Fi for $400.
Tungsten W3: All the features of the Tungsten T7 with a "flippable" thumbboard, 480x640 VGA Screen. Like I said, ONLY CLASSIC memory NOT NVFS. No more Intel Processors please. $500.
Tungsten D: New addition to the Tungsten Line. D will mean "Drive". This will be basically a Tungsten T5 with the addition of Vibrate and a Charge Indicator, plus double the memory (128MB System Memory, 384MB Drive Memory) and please a Metal Case and a Motorola Processor instead. $300, no more than that!
Tungsten M: High-End Tungsten Handheld. M means "Multimedia". It will sport all the features of the Tungsten T7 with the addition of a 1.3MP Camera (Please let it be Kodak-quality), and a 480x640 screen. $650 to start.
Please, all Tungstens MUST run under Palm OS Cobalt. No more Garnet, please.
Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
RE: palmOne has a lot of catching up to do
Zire 32: Much like yesterday's Tungsten E Handheld, but with a Multi-Connector instead, and please give the Zire 32 4 Shortcut Buttons and a 5-Way Navigator instead. Give it a Charge Indicator and even a Voice Memo, and price it $150, and you've got an already powerful Zire Handheld, but please use Motorola ARM Processors instead. No more Intel Processors, UGH!
Zire 73: 64MB (50MB Useable for the least) Memory, all the same features with the Zire 72, but please make improvements on the Camera for the least, and please let us cover the camera lens when it's not in use. Thank you. Please add a 320x480 Hi Res Plus Screen with Active Input. Thank you. Multi-Connector and Vibrate is mandatory as well. $300 for the Multimedia Zire Handheld. Thank you.
Zire 81: 128MB (At least 100MB Useable) Memory, rugged casing, all the features of the Zire 73 Handheld, but with Wi-Fi added-on, and with dual SD/SDIO/MMC Slots, and I would like to see 8 Shortcut Buttons on this high-end Zire Handheld, running at $400.
Zire 91: Basically a Zire 81 with a 480x640 screen, a Kodak-made 2.0MP Built-In Camera, and with 256MB (I think at least 215MB Useable Memory should suffice) Memory (With all Zires, NO NVFS, if NVFS is being used, the Tungsten T5 is gonna be the final palmOne handheld I'll ever buy!). High-End Zire Handheld for $500.
All Zires MUST run Palm OS Cobalt. No exceptions or excuses, or I'll start to go mad.
Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
RE: palmOne has a lot of catching up to do
Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
RE: palmOne has a lot of catching up to do
>Tungsten E: 320x480 Hi Res Plus with Active Input, IRDA and Bluetooth, Vibrate and Charge Indicators, Multi-Connector, 64MB (50 MB Useable) "Classic" Memory (NO MORE NVFS OK?), Motorola ARM-Compliant Processor (I'm sick and tired of all these Intel Processors being used) for $200.
I suppose you meant Tungsten E2. Additionally, pa1mOne is actively working to correct issues associated with NVFS (or so they say), so I expect that ALL of the future handhelds will use it. And what's wrong with Intel processors?
>Tungsten T7: A fixed Tungsten T5 with 128MB (100 Useable) "Classic" Memory (Again NO MORE NVFS, NO MORE BUILT-IN THUMB DRIVES), Voice Memo, Vibrate, Charge Indicator, Housed in Metal, Multi-Connector, using a Yamaha Audio Processor, using an ATI Video Chip, Dual SD/SDIO/MMC Slots, and using a Motorola ARM-Compliant Processor with Bluetooth, IRDA, and Wi-Fi for $400.
As much as I'd love this handheld (as long as it was thrown into a different case), pa1mOne can't afford to sell a device like this for $400 (Remember the TT?). They're a small company with hardly the power of HP and Dell to bargain for component prices. $500.
>Tungsten W3: All the features of the Tungsten T7 with a "flippable" thumbboard, 480x640 VGA Screen. Like I said, ONLY CLASSIC memory NOT NVFS. No more Intel Processors please. $500.
The Tungsten W died a LONG time ago. It'd most likely be the C2. Despite all the hoohaha about the VGA Pocket PCs, it really isn't neccessary on a Palm. I've also envisioned a 'flippable' thumboard (in fact, I've actually put much thought into it. I need a life...), but practically it's be incredibly prone to breakage and made the handheld excessively thick. What is it with you and Intel? Anyway, I can see pa1mOne never releasing a follow-up to the TC, as they are (1) focusing on the smartphone market, and (2) most likely going to release the T7 with wi-fi.
>Tungsten D: New addition to the Tungsten Line. D will mean "Drive". This will be basically a Tungsten T5 with the addition of Vibrate and a Charge Indicator, plus double the memory (128MB System Memory, 384MB Drive Memory) and please a Metal Case and a Motorola Processor instead. $300, no more than that!
Here's what this puppy's missing: integrated USB cable. Nobody will want a Palm/Flash Drive if it doesn't have the cable built in. Make it a little 6 inch retractable cable (and the handheld slightly thicker as a result), and you'll be set. Additionally, I think that NONE of these should look like the TE/T5. That design is worn out.
>Tungsten M: High-End Tungsten Handheld. M means "Multimedia". It will sport all the features of the Tungsten T7 with the addition of a 1.3MP Camera (Please let it be Kodak-quality), and a 480x640 screen. $650 to start.
Add flash to the camera, and for that much, make it a 2.3 megapixel.
>Please, all Tungstens MUST run under Palm OS Cobalt. No more Garnet, please.
Agreed, but I believe that Garnet will be reserved for only the lowest of the Zires.
For the Zires:
>Zire 32: Much like yesterday's Tungsten E Handheld, but with a Multi-Connector instead, and please give the Zire 32 4 Shortcut Buttons and a 5-Way Navigator instead. Give it a Charge Indicator and even a Voice Memo, and price it $150, and you've got an already powerful Zire Handheld, but please use Motorola ARM Processors instead. No more Intel Processors, UGH!
Again, you and the Intels. Geez, you don't have to put it on EVERY FREAKIN' ONE! [End rant] Sorry about that. Anyway, this is much to powerful for the basic Zire. 4 buttons and D-pad? Yes. Charge indicator? Yes. Voice memo? No. 320x320? Yes. Multi-Connector? Yes (should be on every one until they introduce a new one).
>Zire 73: 64MB (50MB Useable for the least) Memory, all the same features with the Zire 72, but please make improvements on the Camera for the least, and please let us cover the camera lens when it's not in use. Thank you. Please add a 320x480 Hi Res Plus Screen with Active Input. Thank you. Multi-Connector and Vibrate is mandatory as well. $300 for the Multimedia Zire Handheld. Thank you.
I can say with near certainty that this is the most likely successor to the 72.
>Zire 81: 128MB (At least 100MB Useable) Memory, rugged casing, all the features of the Zire 73 Handheld, but with Wi-Fi added-on, and with dual SD/SDIO/MMC Slots, and I would like to see 8 Shortcut Buttons on this high-end Zire Handheld, running at $400.
We're getting into too many Zires here. 8 buttons!?!? Have you lost your mind? Adhere to the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid. Additionally, this Zire, and the 81 you describe, are too similar to the Tungstens you've proposed.
>Zire 91: Basically a Zire 81 with a 480x640 screen, a Kodak-made 2.0MP Built-In Camera, and with 256MB (I think at least 215MB Useable Memory should suffice) Memory (With all Zires, NO NVFS, if NVFS is being used, the Tungsten T5 is gonna be the final palmOne handheld I'll ever buy!). High-End Zire Handheld for $500.
No no no. How many PDAs does Dell currently produce? 3. How many have VGA screens? 1. pa1mOne is in no financial position to put two VGA palms out their, let alone nine (look up) new handhelds in addition to their touted Treo 'family'. I'm not going to go into specifics here, but this is what I'd like to see...
Zire 32:
320x320 screen
32 MB NVFS RAM
$150
Zire 73:
320x480 screen
64 MB NVFS RAM
Voice recorder
Enhanced 1.2 MP camera with flash.
Bluetooth
$300
Tungsten E2:
320x320 screen
64 MB NVFS RAM
Voice recorder
Bluetooth
$200
Tungsten T7:
320x480 screen
256 MB NVFS RAM (User defined palm/card)
Voice Recorder
Bluetooth
Wi-fi
Dual SD (one SDIO)
$400
Treo 700:
320x320 screen
32 MB NVFS RAM
Standard dialpad
Voice Recorder
SDIO
$250
Treo 710:
320x320 screen
64 MB NVFS RAM
Thumboard
Voice Recorder
VGA (.3 MP) camera
SDIO
Bluetooth
$400
Treo 720:
320x320 screen
128 MB NVFS RAM
Thumboard
Voice Recorder
1.3 MP camera
SDIO
Bluetooth
Wi-fi
$600
Treo 730:
320x480 screen
256 MB NVFS RAM (user-defined palm/card)
Voice recorder
2.3 MP camera with flash
SDIO
Bluetooth
Wi-fi
$700
ALL HAVE:
Charging LED (multi-color)
Multi-connector
Transreflective screens
4 buttons and a D-Pad (Treos excluded)
Replaceable batteries
Tungsten T-T3 and Treo 650 style reset holes (/w stylus)
A frickin' cradle, man!
ACCESSORIES:
Extra batteries with bigger capacities
Multi-connector keyboard
Treo Only: Battery cover with standard dial pad
Enhanced cradle with audio out
Treo Only: Uber-enhanced cradle with audio out, speakerphone, and phone jack (plug into household phone system)
"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: palmOne has a lot of catching up to do
These are nice lists and all but they are simply unfathomable for a small (and shrinking) company like P1 for support, marketing, and R&D purposes. All of the above lists fail to include any current carryover models and all seem more idealized "wish lists" moreso than a realistic product line given P1's current $ state and reluctance to innovate.
I think that the Zire 31, 72 and T5 models will all carryover along with the two Treos. I do see a new flagship keyboard Tungsten model (likely with dual wireless) this spring as well as a proper T|E2 (likely just the T5 with 64mb regular ram and 320*320 screen). I wouldn't rule out a minor refresh of the Treo 650 either. Treo 600 will be sold as long as the carriers want it and until the considerable inventory of current units is exhausted.
As a general rule of thumb, any and all units still carrying the old round Palm jewel logo will be EOL in the very near future.
RE: palmOne has a lot of catching up to do
I presume that's me AND the people in my head.
>These are nice lists and all but they are simply unfathomable for a small (and shrinking) company like P1 for support, marketing, and R&D purposes. All of the above lists fail to include any current carryover models and all seem more idealized "wish lists" moreso than a realistic product line given P1's current $ state and reluctance to innovate.
Well, yes, this is a wish list, but not everything on here would be released at the same time: Timing would go as follows...
January 05: Tungsten|E2
February 05: Treo 700, 720
May 05: Zire 73
September 05: Treo 710, Treo 730
November 05: Tungsten T7, Zire 32
Yes, I know this doesn't fit palmOne's release schedule.
>I think that the Zire 31, 72 and T5 models will all carryover along with the two Treos. I do see a new flagship keyboard Tungsten model (likely with dual wireless) this spring as well as a proper T|E2 (likely just the T5 with 64mb regular ram and 320*320 screen). I wouldn't rule out a minor refresh of the Treo 650 either. Treo 600 will be sold as long as the carriers want it and until the considerable inventory of current units is exhausted.
Yes, they will sell the Treo 600 until they're gone, as it still has profit potential. If pa1mOne really wants to focus on the smartphone market, they really have to release a <$250 Treo to capture the market. If they were to put one of those out, I can almost garauntee that they wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand.
The Zire line is still going strong, as would be expected, but with just the T5 carrying the Tungstens, I have to agree that a TE2 is in out near future, hopefully more near than future.
>As a general rule of thumb, any and all units still carrying the old round Palm jewel logo will be EOL in the very near future.
Agreed.
"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: palmOne has a lot of catching up to do
Not only does the proposed release schedule not fit P1's release schedule, it doesn't fit the release schedule of any 2nd or 3rd tier hardware company of P1's size. You have to take into account things like those little pamphlets Office Depot & Staples have for point of sale consumer education. You wouldn't have to replace those booklets every other month, would you? It is better to group releases into clusters like P1 currently does. That said, 2x a year is too infrequent in this day and age. The launch of the Tungsten T2 was perfect (July-Aug) as it allowed them to get the back to school crowd and ramp up everyone's expectations prior to the T3 launch in Oct/Nov.
I would realistically recommend they stick to the spring/fall launch schedule but also add a 3rd launch window in mid-summer for Treos and "refreshes" of current products (like T|T->T|T2). A mid-summer launch of a low cost Treo would absolutely be killer for parents buying their kids a phone for college etc.
RE: palmOne has a lot of catching up to do
>A mid-summer launch of a low cost Treo would absolutely be killer for parents buying their kids a phone for college etc.
EXACTLY! And they would also have time to get one for high school kids for Christmas (or the Holidays, if you prefer I be pc). A low-end Treo would completely capture the smartphone market for pa1mOne. Hoke'em while they're young!
"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: palmOne has a lot of catching up to do
RE: palmOne has a lot of catching up to do
The reason why I wanted palmOne to start using Motorola iMXL processors instead of Intel X-Scale Processors was mainly due to each hardware manufacturer having to add cost for the Intel Name. We consumers shouldn't have to pay any unnecessary hardware processor costs for a particular handheld. In fact, yesterday's handhelds (i.e. Palm M515) ran under Motorola Processors, so why shouldn't today's palmOne's handhelds do so?
Imagine yourself in a Handheld Manufacturer's shoes. You had to choose between a Motorola iMXL Processor (or any other Motorola ARM-Compliant Processor) or an Intel X-Scale Processor. Wouldn't you do research on these two processors first before making conclusions?
Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
It's too late for Palm
"Death can come swiftly to a market leader. By the time you have lost the positive-feedback cycle it's often too late to change what you've been doing, and all of the elements of a negative spiral come into play." - Bill Gates, "The Road Ahead", Chapter 3
RE: It's too late for Palm
"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: It's too late for Palm
---
David
RE: It's too late for Palm
RE: It's too late for Palm
"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
Is Bradley insane or just out of touch?
Which one is this?! Outsource to crappy manufacturers and alienate your core long-time customers by ignoring their desires?
And being, uh, clever enough to put out **32K Memos and a 1K Clipboard**?
"Our fall products raised the bar for competitors and earned widespread acclaim."
OK, clearly the man is insane... p1 is scroooooed.
RE: Is Bradley insane or just out of touch?
"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: Is Bradley insane or just out of touch?
http://biz.yahoo.com/t/06/4674.html
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
RE: Is Bradley insane or just out of touch?
How golden is *his* parachute, I wonder?
RE: Is Bradley insane or just out of touch?
Seriously, palmOne needs some quality control counseling and therapy.
Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
Ahem - what goes around comes around?
Giggle.
I think someone must own some PLMO stock...
RE: Ahem - what goes around comes around?
TWO: 29 Million is a lot of handhelds for a little company like pa1mOne.
THREE: What on Earth does your title have to do with the post?
"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: There will be no more Palm Tungsten devices.
Ok so NOW the teeming masses @ PIC are awaiting:
1. TVoR's PalmSource/Cobalt tell-all article
2. Sleuth's P1 roadmap leaks
3. Mike Cane's T|E review
!!
RE: There will be no more Palm Tungsten devices.
RE: There will be no more Palm Tungsten devices.
"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: There will be no more Palm Tungsten devices.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: There will be no more Palm Tungsten devices.
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Good news!