Comments on: Rumor: Nintendo Licensing PalmSource Software?
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PalmOne Licences Windows?
PalmOne taking out a Windows Mobile / Pocket PC licence
http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3583.html
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
Would they *really* want to go up against that forthcoming hp Mobile Messenger?
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
18:00 CET is 12:00 EST.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
Nokia, and Microsoft want to steel palm customer base, but it seems it doesn't working. Sure hp, Dell, and all the big names make fantastic hardware for the platform, and some are fooled to buy it and test it, but they will realise, soon or later, this is not a palm, it just an unreliable crap copy.
As far as palmone doesn't make anything stupid, and listen to their customers, they will be fine and sell. But if they are going to fool around with Windows, and care less about Palm OS, their market can easily be stolen by another hardware maker.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
The market has grown since then, it doesn't means windows has stolen lots of palm customers.
Palm users buy from palmone using palm OS, which is quite natural, and even Sony couldn't beat palmone at its own territory, but believe me if palmone let down their customers by using windows instead of palm OS, they would open doors for other hardware makers. And I wouldn't even rule out the possibility that if palmone let down the Palm OS, palmsource become a limited hardware company as well.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
If PalmOne, the last remaining licensee of a platform that is already seen to be in trouble, were to jump ship, there would be no new manufacturers. PalmSource doesn't have the resources or the experience to become a hardware manufacturer with any real success, and no one else would want to pick up a snake-bit platform. Palm OS isn't some kind of dynasty that will always be there. It can fall victim to market forces as easily as anyone, and the two Palm companies haven't been doing anything to shore it up. Quite the opposite.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
If Tapwave can make descent hardware, palmsource can do better. It's not as advanced as building an Intel microprocessor. All the components are bought from specialists.
As long as they have 60M$, the brand, the engineers, partners, customers; they will do it - if they have too!
But they have 11 licensees so far, no need for them to make hardware.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
They have 11 licensees, and only one of them is more than an astrisk.
The brand would be destroyed if P1's switched. There's almost no way to create an analogy for what would happen if P1 dumped PalmOS, because there are almost no markets that are supplied by a single company. Confidence in PalmSource and the future of the PalmOS is already low because of the Cobalt fiasco, the confusion over Palm Linux, and P1's wavering on their use PSRC OSes. If P1 switched, it would be a staggering blow to PSRC, a vote of no confidence by the only base they have left. It would amount to PalmOne saying to the world that the Palm OS was no longer useful.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
Who on earth ever said PalmOne planned, announced, rumored, discussed or even had a bad dream after too much pizza over the idea that PalmOPne would S-W-I-T-C-H to Windows Media bloatware? If the idea of switching even has a bonafide "rumor", then I would like to see the link to it.
Yes, PalmOne may license another OS if they choose. Yes they worked a tiny deal with MS on an "mail conduit" for Treo. Yes, they may also be looking at the dominant smartfone OS, Symbian or even something with RIM.
I am puzzled by what psychological motivation one must have to carry on detailed conversations about subjects like "P1's SWITCH and PSRCs resulting demise", when the foundational ideas are purely fictional. Maybe it's your desire for MS to monopolize another tech market so you can feel good about being an owner or something?
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
I'm puzzled by the psychological motivation to put words in the mouth of others, to ascribe fictional nefarious motives to a debater, or to construct strawmen. There's been a major news story about PalmOne and Windows Mobile--since PIC didn't post an article, a discussion thread got started here. I participated in the discussion, on the theoretical premise of what would happen if PalmOne moved to Windows. Frankly, I don't see what's so hard to follow about that chain of logic.
As for being an 'owner', I don't have any Microsoft stock, if that's what you mean.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
I have to agree with AdamaDBrown on the above and so bringing this back to the original article subject of Nintendo not licensing the OS (or are they?), Sony dropping Palm OS altogether, Tapwave not even getting off the launchpad and PalmOne beating everyone on PalmOS enabled hardware (like who else is there?) then...
Why is Palm split into two companies?
Why not consolidate, forget about licensing the operating system to anyone and just provide the best possible experience in handheld computing and settle for a smaller market share?
Forget competing with Windows Mobile because Microsoft have bottomless pockets and will buy their way into the market the same way they have bought market share with Xbox. Likewise Symbian because of its quorum of handset manufacturers.
It was a difficult road but Apple appear to have done this successfully.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
there is another explanation - being short on a stock. 23% of palmsource’s stocks are shorted; no wonder some people attack palmsource so badly, to give a negative expression.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
The attacks are a common approach on any stock board. So much so, that bashers make the medium almost worthless. They spill into any place where investors may look to "get a feel" for a company.
AdamA,
My point is simply as stated. Where is a link to anything, even a decent rumor, that says P1 is S-W-I-T-C-H-I-N-G. Not diversifying, but S-W-I-T-C-H-I-N-G. You even stated it again. This is a discussion on PSRC rumored to be getting a new lisencee. I expect P1 to diversify, that's wisdom. Even if they use WinMob, then they would be fools to abandon Palm OS. I'm puzzled as to why you're so sure about S-W-I-T-C-H-I-N-G. I'll ask one last time ... can you link us to any news on such a thing?
Seldom,
Great quote except you're wrong in my case. I have no position + or - on PLMO or PSRC or MSFT. Palms are awesome gadgets, but my posts show plenty of evidence that I'm not a stock fanboy. I've lost enough $$$ on tech dreams over the past few year to even go there. When I referred to "owner" I was referring to a device, not stock.
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
That's true, up to a point.
Don't forget that M$ have their fingers in a lot of pies and their resources are not infinite.
In EVERY company, there is ALWAYS the problem of allocating resources and, more generally, priorities between different divisions/projects. This is where the beancounters come in - their eagle eyes focus on the bottom line and, sooner or later, it's inevitable that a loss making division will be cut.
The rumours are that WinCE/PPC/WinMobile/whatever division is still losing money (though the losses are relatively low now that the development program has been pared back).
Note that M$ staffers are openly admitting that, since the relaunch of the Tablet PC, the PDA-side has assumed a much lower priority over at Redmond.
S-o-o-o ... this raises some questions: How many years has it been that this division has bought time by claiming that they are just on the verge of cornering the market? What is it that M$' own market researchers (a.k.a. Gartner) are saying about the decline of the PDA market? How much longer will the beancounters allow a low priority division to chew up cash? That's anybody's guess.
Just don't assume that M$ will continue to waste its time and efforts on a division that is going nowhere.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
Thanks for the excellent post. It's easy to just assume that the "big boys" in hardware or software can just dump their relatively limitless cash into a venture, take it over and crush the little guys. Sure it is the basic gameplan, but it not a given success by any means.
Although Palm seemed so vulnerable in the face of Sony, Dell, HPs deep pockets and even H/S's initial innovations, they have shown an uncanny ability to stay afloat. One PalmOne exec spoke to this several months back. How and why they produced m100, i705, T|W and other underwhelming models made a lot of us shake our heads. Nevertheless, they HAVE survived. Even the "TE2" and it's near immediate and significant "special offers" will probably be profitable.
The big boys still have to answer to the shareholders. When the pressure is on, management looks for places to cut. While "Palm" has not dominated the world, it has survived while others have given up. Most notably Sony, but several on the PPC side. With HPs shakeup at the top and highly lackluster "Darth Vader Pez Dispenser" designs, I would not be so sure that they are willing to languish in a sideways market either. That pathetic rz1715 is bleeding badly and the others don't seem to hot either. Dell is even "discounting" and making "offers" on their awesome X50 series. But those HP communicators look pretty attractive. We'll see if this thing really becomes a two-horse race for PDAs afterall?
Anyway. Excellent thouhgts.
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
Palm Vs. pa1mOne + PalmSource. Fact Vs. Fiction.
Why not consolidate, forget about licensing the operating system to anyone and just provide the best possible experience in handheld computing and settle for a smaller market share?
Grasshopper: if you seek the answers to these questions, read the financial reports of Palm and then PalmSource and pa1mOne. The "split" was a sham done to make $$$ and save on loans.
Remerging a year after the so-called split would (deservedly) invite a great deal of scrutiny from the SEC.
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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
Palm Vs. pa1mOne + PalmSource. Fact Vs. Fiction.
[Yada Yada SNIP]
Just don't assume that M$ will continue to waste its time and efforts on a division that is going nowhere.
Microsoft's smartphone and PPC investment is already paying off for the company and they're now seizing a significant portion of the market. Microsoft is NOT going anywhere and to suggust they won't win this battle is naive. And by the way, Microsoft's resources don't have to be infinite: PPC spending is chump change for Gates. They've spent more on a couple lawsuits than they have on WinCE/PPC in the past 8 years.
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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)
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******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
I want all you schmoes to print this out and tape it to the top of your computer screen:
"Death can come swiftly to a market leader. By the time you have lost the positive-feedback cycle it's often too late to change what you've been doing, and all of the elements of a negative spiral come into play." - Bill Gates, "The Road Ahead", Chapter 3
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3583.html
It doesn't really make a difference whether PalmOne were to split their high-end models--or even just the Treos--between Palm and Windows, or switch to Windows for everything. The crippling blow would be primarily a PR one. It would be saying "Even we, the other Palm company, don't think PalmSource has the ability to provide for business use, or anything more complex than a calculator watch." It would say to the vertical markets "Palm OS doesn't work for you. Buy PocketPCs." It would say to the consumer market "The Palm brand really doesn't mean anything. Oh, and can we confuse you over what OS we're running, so that you flee to a different company where you at least know what you're getting?"
Besides that, it's hideously difficult to push two different OSes at once. Just ask PalmSource. Or Samsung, for that matter. It creates market confusion, splits development effort, doubles costs, and takes up time and energy in trying to simplify and explain everything.
RE: PalmOne Licences Windows?
Now what about "We, the suckers"
can you all remeber Mike Cane's we the suckers and the TamsPalm followup Tam, the sucker?
We now see exactly this-Nintendo is licencing a kind of "Outlook" for the DS. And something else-trust me, for a plain PIM machine 4MB or RAM and 60MhZ are more than enough....
Just my 2 cents
Tam Hanna
Find out more about the Palm OS in my blog:
http://tamspalm.blogspot.com
Why palmOne has "Nokia Dreams"
More:
Why Nokia has "Microsoft Dreams"
http://wireless.itworld.com/4274/050214nokiams/page_1.html
(Wow, check out the Reply quote bug!)
Philips-Infineon-Samsung to run Palmix?
* Infineon and Samsung unveil a reference design for a Linux handset that works on high-speed third generation (3G) mobile phone networks.
More at:
If it'll run Linux, it should run Palmix, no?
All Your PC Are Belong To Us
Well, *some* PDAs...
>>>Note: Palm devices do not support the Orb Media Service. As future Palm OS releases support streaming media, Orb will likely support Palm devices at that time.
Hmmmm... no Mac version.
RE: Why palmOne has
Too bad it's not the other way around.
"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
RE: Too bad it's not the other way around.
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Too bad it's not the other way around.
altoughn I personally dislike Nintendo for their aggresive patent/general strategy(attacking samall end users, etc), their units usually are pretty nice and sturdy.
No comparison to my IIIc(3n exchanges), m505(upgraded due to screen system), TT(slaughtered x pairs of headphones->upgrade), TT3(4th exchange pending)..
Just my 2 cents
Tam Hanna
Find out more about the Palm OS in my blog:
http://tamspalm.blogspot.com
RE: Too bad it's not the other way around.
This is pure wishful thinking on my part. I just think my GBA SP is a really nice piece of work, and therefore I'd love to see what Nintendo would do with a Palm device.
Jon
"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
Another way to look at the problem
Well, this definitely is an interesting move-but what will it bring? Will the DS become a Palm powered handheld? Or…..
TamsPalm takes a look at the possibilities-read more at:
http://tamspalm.blogspot.com/2005/02/palm-os-and-nintendo-ds-demiperferct.html
Find out more about the Palm OS in my blog:
http://tamspalm.blogspot.com
RE: Another way to look at the problem
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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
RE: Another way to look at the problem
and your 1/4 page 'ipoo' signature is silly, obnoxious, obtrusive, and getting old. how about you spare us from it, HTML boy?
Special message for Geeko:
and every post you've ever made to PIC "is silly, obnoxious, obtrusive, and getting old." how about you spare us from it, Geeko?
Don't give up your high powered job as an Amway salesgirl, Sweetie.
*************************************************************************************
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
RE: Another way to look at the problem
RE: Another way to look at the problem
HTML boy - your posts and signature have all the maturity of a 14 year old. I guess 14 year olds do love potty-humor.
MikeCon - don't be jealous, pauper. Maybe I'll throw you a five-spot next time I see you sitting on the sidewalk holding your paper cup.
RE: Another way to look at the problem
Geeko, Geeko, Geeko...
Mary Kay cosmetics. But I doubt Geeko's intelligent enough to sell lipstick.
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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
Geeko Vs. BubbaSteve's brawlin' creampie of a wife.
That dumba$$ would probably try to slip you a black and white one-sided photocopy of a bill.
Ryan should arrange a real Death Match between Geeko and BubbaSteve (or BubbaSteve's brawlin', hard drinkin', gang bangin' creampie of a wife). They'd have to scrape Geeko's remains off the mat.
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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
MS to PalmSource: Drop Dead
http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3589.html
-- but then, let's remember who the source is. Hello there, ska!
RE: MS to PalmSource: Drop Dead
I can see the point and the theory, but that sounds about like expecting Michael Jackson from his middle linebacker position to knock Gerome Bettis on his fanny in next years Super Bowl.
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
Michael Jackson has nothing to do with Palm Pilots.
If Bettis was 8 years old I'll bet Michael Jackson would welcome the opportunity to do some heavy Bettis-fanny-knocking.
Don't drop the soap, Jerome. And belated happy birthday (yesterday)
Love,
Michael "Wacko Jacko" J.
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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
End of Story: PalmOS to be a SKIN
Said so.
PalmOS is not a skin. Get it through your thick head. Please
"Cook said that by the end of this year, the PalmSource line-up would probably include Palm OS for Linux, Palm-powered mass-market phones, and PIM applications on standard phones that have a Palm OS look and data compatibility.
The mFone product range will eventually be rolled into Palm OS Garnet, previously known as Palm OS 5.
No release date has been fixed for Palm OS on Linux, but Cook said that it will probably be decided by the time of the PalmSource Mobile Summit and Developer Conference in San Jose this May.
Also at 3GSM, PalmSource and device maker Group Sense PDA (GSPDA) will announce a new phone handset running Palm OS Garnet. The Xplore M68 Smartphone has 64MB of memory, built-in Bluetooth capability, an email client and Java support, and is available immediately in Europe.
The first handsets based on PalmSource's latest platform, Palm OS Cobalt 6.1, are expected later this year, according to the company."
Enough BS, promises and spin. Unless you have product SHIPPING with the OS, it's all just vaporware.
PalmLinux ready by the end of the year, huh? Maybe this moron might want to let George and the rest of the PalmOS crew know what he's predicting. PalmLinux likely wouldn't be ready by the end of 2006, much less 2005!
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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)
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******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
RE: End of Story: PalmOS to be a SKIN
And they're unbundling the apps.
All as I said.
RE: End of Story: PalmOS to be a SKIN
How much for a Palm PIM skin? Can PalmSource survive selling just skins? By the time this comes to fruition, won't PPC PIM be polished up enough to make the Palm PIMs extraneous?
Your boy Nagel really did his homework on this one, MikeCon.
RE: End of Story: PalmOS to be a SKIN
And I also think former PalmOS users would prefer to sync those PIMs to Palm Desktop, not Outlook.
On a side note...
PalmSource: Port to PPC *NOW*
PalmOS is a skin. The apps will now be unbundled. Get it on PPC. Save yourselves.
RE: PalmSource: Port to PPC NEVER
Will you ever get it through your head that there is NO (Zero/Zilch/Nada/None) magic to the PalmOS PIMs? A first year computer science major could come up with similar/better apps in a couple weeks. PalmOS PIM on the Nintendo DS (a childrens' machine, by the way) helps neither PalmSource nor Nintendo, for that matter.
If PalmSource had been able to convince Nintendo to run PalmOS (eg through dual booting the hardware), then they'd have something to crow about.
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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)
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******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
RE: PalmSource: Port to PPC *NOW*
RE: PalmSource: Port to PPC *NOW*
Mike: Palm's built-in PIM apps "ain't all that". Sorry. And I'm one of the biggest PalmOS PIM fanboyzz around. And just as PalmOS has ultra slick apps like DateBk5 that transform the PIM functionality, PPC also has numerous PIM add-ons. Still, average users would be just FINE with PPC's built-in PIM apps.
I was thinking of doing a series of in-depth articles for CLIE power users and a review or two of some recent PDAs that have been ignored at PIC. Since you can't afford the TH55 etc, stay tuned: you'll have to enjoy the CLIE experience vicariously...
Don't be a hater. You loser.
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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)
*************************************************************************************
******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
RE: PalmSource: Port to PPC *NOW*
Nintendo oughtta be gettin' more than just the PIMs
[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3[/signature1]
RE: Nintendo oughtta be gettin' more than just the PIMs
RE: This ain't your daddy's Batman
[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3[/signature1]
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