Comments on: Rumor: Windows Mobile Treo 670 Spotted?

In a week thats been filled with rumors comes another one out of the UK this time. Apparently a new Treo running Windows Mobile was briefly shown by an unnamed high up Orange executive.
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What's to hide.

LiveFaith @ 4/7/2005 4:25:56 PM # Q
Why didn't the guy ever show the obvious picture of the "670" running WinMob with the backlight on? Did he ever?

Devices look real, but I never believed that "some lady tried to sell me 2 of em', so I tooks pix with my camera" story.

Unfortunately for Palm fanboys, P1 will probably sell a boatload of these if they have at least 64mb. Will they be Dell "badge engineered" or not?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Windows Treo = the coup de grace for PalmSource
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/8/2005 10:56:17 PM # Q
After blowing hundreds of millions of $$$ with unwanted inventory, the useless overpriced acquisitions, the incompetent "leaders", the absurd "split" into the two Palms, the Cobalt bęte noir, the China MobileSoft Hail Mary... after all that, in the end Palm gets fatally stabbed in the back by... PALM!

Un-freakin-believable.





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Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: What's to hide.
I.M Anonymous @ 4/11/2005 1:17:23 AM # Q
Hey, Voice of Reason, would you mind trimming down your signature a bit? 22 lines is a little excessive, don't you think?

RE: What's to hide.
DonCarcharo @ 4/11/2005 2:47:42 PM # Q
[b]Hey, Voice of Reason, would you mind trimming down your signature a bit? 22 lines is a little excessive, don't you think?[/b]

Never mind the fact that its not even remotely funny and appears in 4 out of every 5 threads.

RE: What's to hide.
DonCarcharo @ 4/11/2005 2:55:49 PM # Q
You know what else isn't funny? My futile attempt to use BB code in a post.

/Secretly wishes he had a 47 line signature with the word "poo" in it.

RE: What's to hide.
AdamaDBrown @ 4/11/2005 9:33:53 PM # Q
If I recall correctly, the PIC comments system recognizes HTML for basic functions like bold, underlined, and italic text.

Reply to this comment

Other Links

skccs @ 4/7/2005 4:46:56 PM # Q
Look also here:

http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3736.html

HTC seems to be to nr1 producer of pocket-pc phones (QTEK, SPV uso.)

Look at that 1 April Joke too:

http://mytreo.net/news/archives/000434.php#more

Christian Stocker

RE: Other Links
ray00pal @ 4/12/2005 1:18:02 AM # Q
Note that it is a T-Mobile. That means bad coverage so thanks.
RE: Other Links
Surur @ 4/15/2005 2:32:01 PM # Q


Reply to this comment

Orange Windows Treo

GrahamBM @ 4/7/2005 6:49:58 PM # Q
I think the best English term for this would be "Bollocks!"

:))

Reply to this comment

The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.

legodude522 @ 4/7/2005 6:59:04 PM # Q
Oh, God no! Its suicide for Palm OS.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
vesther @ 4/7/2005 7:47:50 PM # Q
It's time that we start writing palmOne up for breaking their allegiance to the Palm OS System. Obviously, the Treo 670 probably violates all provisions of the Palm OS Licensing Agreement.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
jkirvin @ 4/7/2005 10:04:24 PM # Q
Anyone care to explain how this is bad for Palm OS? I'm curious.

Also, if I were a PalmOne stockholder (and I should be: call broker), I'd be royally pissed if they *didn't* offer a WM Treo. This is exactly what they should be doing.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
Kesh @ 4/7/2005 11:32:49 PM # Q
Keep in mind that palmOne is no longer married to the PalmOS. They're free to pick whatever OS they want for their hardware, including WinMob. It could potentially hurt PalmSource (the owners of PalmOS), but palmOne would probably *benefit* from having a WinMob Treo.

I'm a bit cautious about it, myself.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
jkirvin @ 4/7/2005 11:35:21 PM # Q
This won't cut at all into Palm OS market share. It might take a chunk out of RIM, though.

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Agenda?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/8/2005 1:31:41 AM # Q
Anyone care to explain how this is bad for Palm OS? I'm curious.

This won't cut at all into Palm OS market share. It might take a chunk out of RIM, though.

Wow. You don't see how having the best smartphone design now being available with PPC will hurt PalmOS marketshare? Are you on crack?

How many companies that previously would have ordered PalmOS Treos will now order "Windows" Treos so the IT department can reassure everyone that the entire system is finally "all-Windows, all the time"? So much for the Treo being a way to leverage PalmOS as a business solution.

Sprint and pa1mOne have a can't-miss hit here (I had heard it was to be called the Treo 700 - guess this got changed), but this move will damage PalmOS more than anything PPC could ever have done on its own.

This isn't rocket science, Kirvin. Comments like this from you show how completely out of touch you are with reality. Even Mike Cane understands that a PPC Treo hurts PalmOS. You must be the only one who thinks this won't damage the platform. Or is Palm paying you to post crap like that? Hmmmm... As I said before, you have ZERO credibility here now.






*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
AdamaDBrown @ 4/8/2005 4:04:11 AM # Q
VoR is correct--IT departments love to standardize on Windows for networking and support reasons, amongst many others.

Besides that, there's a second reason it would be bad for Palm OS. Confidence in PalmSource is at an all time low. The Cobalt debacle, the sudden switch to pushing Linux, their refusal to answer straight questions, and PalmOne's reluctance to charge forward with PSRC's newest toys, all contribute to uncertainty and a lack of confidence, and PSRC isn't fixing it. Developers don't know what platform to code for, licensees are bailing, and users are dropping Palm for Windows. PalmOne is the last licensee of any impact in the market outside east Asia, and they've been singlehandedly carrying PalmSource since Sony pulled back to Japan. If PalmOne started offering Windows based models, it would be seen as an admission that even they don't believe there's a future in the Palm OS.

Actually, this *would* be good for PalmOne. They would open up a large new market segment, and I'm willing to bet that the 670 would have considerably better hardware, such as WiFi and 64 MB. They would sell tons of them. It wouldn't be good for PalmSource, but then again, PalmSource hasn't really done a whole lot to help lately.

Selling PalmOS - or not
SeldomVisitor @ 4/8/2005 6:40:48 AM # Q
Perhaps it is not understod by some PalmInfoCenter readers that PalmOne is not just a significant customer for PalmSource (the folks bringing PalmOS to The World), but essentially is the only customer for PalmSource (50+% of revenue? I forget - it's in their financial docs).

If PalmOne "Goes Microsoft" then PalmSource goes under.

Pretty much guaranteed.

I'd say that's a pretty good reason why this is "bad for Palm OS".

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
palmato @ 4/8/2005 10:37:11 AM # Q
>VoR is correct--IT departments love to standardize on Windows for
> networking and support reasons, amongst many others.

Such as getting latest viruses, troyans, worms, etc. (too many to list).
Hey, you dont' want to be left out of the loop!

More seriuosly that's one of the biggest problems with IT departments. In the prehistoric times, they used to say that nobody would be fired for choosing IBM. Well today it's microwsoft.
If IT managers are fired for choosing MS, maybe at the end of the day we will get better products.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
AdamaDBrown @ 4/8/2005 1:27:10 PM # Q
True, but they still do it. When it comes to PocketPCs, it's mostly because of networking--VPNs, SMB, and WiFi--and portability of code between desktop and mobile, for custom apps used by the company. There's also a view that it makes support easier since it's all Windows, but that doesn't really wash because it's still a different interface from a desktop.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
jkirvin @ 4/8/2005 2:05:50 PM # Q
Wow...

First off, nice reach, VoR. I call you out and this is the best you can come up with? Oy.

Maybe y'all haven't figured it out yet, but RIM's been outselling the ENTIRE IPAQ LINE in units sold. RIM is the 800 pound gorilla in the handheld space right now. That's what IT departments are buying, not Treos. The Treo is a successful smartphone, but most of the purchases are in the "prosumer" market, bought by the actual user even if the company pays for the service. The "fleet" purchases are Blackberries, and a Treo running Magneto tied to an Exchange server supporting push email could be a Blackberry-killing system.

Those sales are A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MARKET than the prosumers that buy Palm OS Treos and use them with POP or IMAP email. Therefore, the Windows Mobile Treo sales won't cut noticeably into the Palm OS Treo sales. Different products, different customers, different markets.

As for P1 offering a WM device hurting Palm OS, I doubt it. You guys are myopic, you can't see this from a "normal" person's perspective. Most consumers don't care enough to notice, and for those that do, this could actually help Palm OS's image. Many of the consumers I've talked to still think of Palm OS as a simple organizer OS while they see WM as a small PC. By showing that Palm OS and WM can actually run on the same hardware, it might prove that Palm OS is more powerful than people think.

I donbt think PalmSource cares either way; I wouldn't if I were them. The average consumer has never HEARD of Cobalt and doesn't care, so that doesn't hurt them. And when you get down to it, in a few more years Palm OS as WE know it will be a very small part of their business. Cell phones are where the money is, and PalmSource could probably exit the PDA market entirely without losing much. Sad for us, but true. Wingnuts here at PIC make the great mistake of believing that PDAs matter. Maybe they do to us, but not to the world at large, not to Microsoft, and not to PalmSource.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
Token User @ 4/8/2005 2:46:02 PM # Q
jkirvin - well said. Every coroporate meeting I go to asks about Blacberry integration ... why? Because it is a corporate device, that allows constatn contact with the enterprise. Would people be happier with a Treo? Maybe, maybe not. Most Blackberries are not used as converged telephony devices, but as wireless data devices.

How much faith can you put in a comment VoR? He's a guy whose signature "line" is five times longer than his posts - and filled with as much crap as the rest of his post.


~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
jkirvin @ 4/8/2005 3:22:50 PM # Q
Seldom Visitor sez...

"If PalmOne "Goes Microsoft" then PalmSource goes under.

Pretty much guaranteed."

Actually, no. That would have been true before the CMS merger, maybe. But not anymore. PalmSource will make far, far more money from cell phone sales than they ever made in handhelds. And you know what? They don't even have to sell them in America. We could never see a regular cell phone running a PalmSource platform and they'd still be fine. Lots and lots of sales in China. The China market is HUGE.

The game has changed, guys. Catch up.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
AdamaDBrown @ 4/8/2005 5:32:28 PM # Q
The 'game' has not changed. Where are these miraculous cell phones? Where are the sales? They bought one small company in the Chinese cell phone software market. A worldwide revolution that does not make. Hype and PR fluff aside, PalmSource is still totally dependant on PalmOne for their revenue.

And, even if they did somehow manage to sustain themselves from cell phone sales in China in the event that PalmOne switched, what's the point? The Palm OS itself would be dead as a platform. There wouldn't be any significant players left making Palm OS handhelds. I don't think PalmOne is going to switch entirely, but if they did, it *would* be lights out for Palm OS.

RIM's recent sales spurt has been impressive, but there's no guarantee that they can sustain it in the long term, particularly in the face of advancing technology from traditional handhelds. Really, the only thing that RIM has had going for them is true push email.

And the 'prosumer' market isn't buying all those Treos. There are plenty of enterprise orders because, push email aside, the Treos make a good mobile email device, and they make a much better phone than most of the Blackberries. With a Blackberry, a lot of companies would have to equip their workers with a cell phone too. Not a problem you have with a Treo.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
Gekko @ 4/8/2005 6:09:18 PM # Q

Adama - don't you know that almost all new Blackberr's are PHONES TOO!!!!!!!!!



RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
jkirvin @ 4/8/2005 6:16:02 PM # Q
Adama sez...

"And, even if [PalmSource] did somehow manage to sustain themselves from cell phone sales in China in the event that PalmOne switched, what's the point? The Palm OS itself would be dead as a platform. There wouldn't be any significant players left making Palm OS handhelds. I don't think PalmOne is going to switch entirely, but if they did, it *would* be lights out for Palm OS."

First off, PalmOne isn't "switching" to Windows Mobile, they're adding it as an option. Just like Garmin and Samsung sell both Palm OS and Windows Mobile handhelds. You're thrown by the idea that "Palm" would be using Windows Mobile, but that misses the point. PalmOne is just another licensee, now, no more important, really, than any other. That they offer handhelds in both flavors is no more significant than Samsung and Garmin doing the same.

Secondly, so what if it was "lights out" for Palm OS handhelds? Handhelds as we know them are a dying breed. What we think of as a PDA only has two or three more years left anyway. They will be replaced by feature phones, smartphones, media players, tablets, UPCs, laptops and probably some form factors that we haven't yet seen. Mobile tech is a moving target, an evolving platform.

"RIM's recent sales spurt has been impressive, but there's no guarantee that they can sustain it in the long term, particularly in the face of advancing technology from traditional handhelds. Really, the only thing that RIM has had going for them is true push email."

RIM has such a commanding lead in the enterprise market that they'll hold strong for years yet. The only thing that could have brought them down was the patent issue, which seems to be moot at this point. No one but us here on PIC gives a flyin' rat's ass about "traditional handhelds" anymore.

"And the 'prosumer' market isn't buying all those Treos. There are plenty of enterprise orders because, push email aside, the Treos make a good mobile email device, and they make a much better phone than most of the Blackberries. With a Blackberry, a lot of companies would have to equip their workers with a cell phone too. Not a problem you have with a Treo."

I agree with you, I'd much rather have a Treo than a Blackberry. But that's not the reality of the market. Blackberries have much better name recognition with execs and they have more support in the IT department because of their largely plug and play push email solution. Microsoft might cut into this with the new WM and Exchange, but it's an uphill fight. The Blackberry is a horrible PIM and not a very good phone, but that doesn't seem to matter to those buying them in record numbers.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
AdamaDBrown @ 4/8/2005 6:26:58 PM # Q
Yes, I do know that Blackberries are also phones. But aside from models like the 7100, which doesn't have a full QWERTY keyboard, most of them aren't something you would want to slap against your face. The Treo is superior in that regard.

Jeff, I'm not 'thrown' by anything. I'm talking about a hypothetical in which PalmOne switched to Windows for most or all of its product line. I said, very clearly, that I don't think they will.

Yet more hype. No, handhelds aren't dying. As a matter of fact, sales went up last year, and smartphones aren't growing at anywhere close to the rate people claim they are. At the moment, even the most successful smartphone company, PalmOne, sells two handhelds for every Treo. There's also been a rise in connected handhelds, like the iPaq 'mobile messengers' and other HTC phone designs, but these are--shock of shocks--still handhelds.

Smartphones are a bubble, just like internet stocks, like Bluetooth, and a dozen other things. They have been hyped all out of proportion, and sooner or later they'll collapse. Then, when the hype has cleared, we'll see if there's a valid long-term place for them. And for the record, I heard that 'handhelds only have two or three years left' line three years ago, too.

RIM is in a sales spike, saturating their market because they don't have competition for push email. Once the competition arrives, I suspect that RIM will see a significant drop in sales, as well as the effects of their current sales spike. Somebody that you already sold a Blackberry to doesn't need another one.

I think you underestimate the power of that which is trendy. Treos are being bought by companies not because of IT, but in large part because managers and executives want them. They mostly don't need push email, and they don't want a poor PIM machine like a Blackberry. These are the people who are driving the enterprise sales of the Treos and the XDA lines: the higher-ups who want something more stylish and can instruct the IT department to buy 5,000 of them. They're being deployed to workers too, but I can't count the number of stories I've heard from people about how their company's higher-ups all got Treos.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
jkirvin @ 4/8/2005 6:55:25 PM # Q
I guess we'll have to wait and see how this plays out in a year or two.

BTW, thank you, Adama. This has been a reasoned, thoughful discussion and a wonderful change of pace from the usual barking around here.

Raving on your Palm™
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/8/2005 9:59:04 PM # Q
Wow...

First off, nice reach, VoR. I call you out and this is the best you can come up with? Oy.

Maybe y'all haven't figured it out yet, but RIM's been outselling the ENTIRE IPAQ LINE in units sold. RIM is the 800 pound gorilla in the handheld space right now. That's what IT departments are buying, not Treos. The Treo is a successful smartphone, but most of the purchases are in the "prosumer" market, bought by the actual user even if the company pays for the service. The "fleet" purchases are Blackberries, and a Treo running Magneto tied to an Exchange server supporting push email could be a Blackberry-killing system.

Those sales are A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MARKET than the prosumers that buy Palm OS Treos and use them with POP or IMAP email. Therefore, the Windows Mobile Treo sales won't cut noticeably into the Palm OS Treo sales. Different products, different customers, different markets.

As for P1 offering a WM device hurting Palm OS, I doubt it. You guys are myopic, you can't see this from a "normal" person's perspective. Most consumers don't care enough to notice, and for those that do, this could actually help Palm OS's image. Many of the consumers I've talked to still think of Palm OS as a simple organizer OS while they see WM as a small PC. By showing that Palm OS and WM can actually run on the same hardware, it might prove that Palm OS is more powerful than people think.

I donbt think PalmSource cares either way; I wouldn't if I were them. The average consumer has never HEARD of Cobalt and doesn't care, so that doesn't hurt them. And when you get down to it, in a few more years Palm OS as WE know it will be a very small part of their business. Cell phones are where the money is, and PalmSource could probably exit the PDA market entirely without losing much. Sad for us, but true. Wingnuts here at PIC make the great mistake of believing that PDAs matter. Maybe they do to us, but not to the world at large, not to Microsoft, and not to PalmSource.

Kirvin, you're getting ridiculous. Do you even THINK before you type?

RIM is doing well because - like Palm before them - they were the first company to sell a device that successfully integrated the hardware and software to satisfy customers in a new niche. If the lost their lawsuit it could have been game over for RIM. Immediately. In 2002, Palm failed miserably to become what RIM is now to enterprise customers: a reliable "push" email device. Microsoft is not run by idiots and I expect they will soon start to use their own Exchange Server as a way to quickly leverage Windows Mobile Blackberry-Killers. IT will love to use "all Microsoft" solutions as soon as they're available. Don't think so? Try explaining to the typical IT type why PalmOS PDAs actually work BETTER with Microsoft Office than Microsoft's own PPC models.

I believe the bulk of Treo 600 sales are to corporate customers. The types who buy 100 - 1000 phones at a time. This is who Palm needs to market the Treo to. Individual sales to end users just increases support costs and creates a lot more headaches than corporate sales do. Sorry, Kirvin, but the lines between Blackberry/Treo/Windows smartphone don't exist. A wireless connected device is a wireless connected device these days and they all have plagiarized each other's features. (Didn't take long for the Treo 600 keyboard to get ripped off, did it?)

So you think PalmSource losing sales to Microsoft might actually HELP PalmSource's image??? Wow. You really are insane. Your "logic" seems to be the product of a diseased mind. Read your post again. Hilarious.

Let's see: the ink is barely dry on the China MobileSoft deal and suddenly you have this Asian saviour (a tiny startup company, by the way!) obviating the need for PalmSource to sell anything outside China??? Wow. Were you drunk again when you posted this nonsense?





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Raving on your Palm™
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/8/2005 10:34:03 PM # Q
Wow...

First off, nice reach, VoR. I call you out and this is the best you can come up with? Oy.

Maybe y'all haven't figured it out yet, but RIM's been outselling the ENTIRE IPAQ LINE in units sold. RIM is the 800 pound gorilla in the handheld space right now. That's what IT departments are buying, not Treos. The Treo is a successful smartphone, but most of the purchases are in the "prosumer" market, bought by the actual user even if the company pays for the service. The "fleet" purchases are Blackberries, and a Treo running Magneto tied to an Exchange server supporting push email could be a Blackberry-killing system.

Those sales are A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MARKET than the prosumers that buy Palm OS Treos and use them with POP or IMAP email. Therefore, the Windows Mobile Treo sales won't cut noticeably into the Palm OS Treo sales. Different products, different customers, different markets.

As for P1 offering a WM device hurting Palm OS, I doubt it. You guys are myopic, you can't see this from a "normal" person's perspective. Most consumers don't care enough to notice, and for those that do, this could actually help Palm OS's image. Many of the consumers I've talked to still think of Palm OS as a simple organizer OS while they see WM as a small PC. By showing that Palm OS and WM can actually run on the same hardware, it might prove that Palm OS is more powerful than people think.

I donbt think PalmSource cares either way; I wouldn't if I were them. The average consumer has never HEARD of Cobalt and doesn't care, so that doesn't hurt them. And when you get down to it, in a few more years Palm OS as WE know it will be a very small part of their business. Cell phones are where the money is, and PalmSource could probably exit the PDA market entirely without losing much. Sad for us, but true. Wingnuts here at PIC make the great mistake of believing that PDAs matter. Maybe they do to us, but not to the world at large, not to Microsoft, and not to PalmSource.

Kirvin, you're getting ridiculous. Do you even THINK before you type?

RIM is doing well because - like Palm before them - they were the first company to sell a device that successfully integrated the hardware and software to satisfy customers in a new niche. If the lost their lawsuit it could have been game over for RIM. Immediately. In 2002, Palm failed miserably to become what RIM is now to enterprise customers: a reliable "push" email device. Microsoft is not run by idiots and I expect they will soon start to use their own Exchange Server as a way to quickly leverage Windows Mobile Blackberry-Killers. IT will love to use "all Microsoft" solutions as soon as they're available. Don't think so? Try explaining to the typical IT type why PalmOS PDAs actually work BETTER with Microsoft Office than Microsoft's own PPC models.

I believe the bulk of Treo 600 sales are to corporate customers. The types who buy 100 - 1000 phones at a time. This is who Palm needs to market the Treo to. Individual sales to end users just increases support costs and creates a lot more headaches than corporate sales do. Sorry, Kirvin, but the lines between Blackberry/Treo/Windows smartphone don't exist. A wireless connected device is a wireless connected device these days and they all have plagiarized each other's features. (Didn't take long for the Treo 600 keyboard to get ripped off, did it?)

So you think PalmSource losing sales to Microsoft might actually HELP PalmSource's image??? Wow. You really are insane. Your "logic" seems to be the product of a diseased mind. Read your post again. Hilarious.

Let's see: the ink is barely dry on the China MobileSoft deal and suddenly you have this Asian saviour (a tiny startup company, by the way!) obviating the need for PalmSource to sell anything outside China??? Wow. Were you drunk again when you posted this nonsense?







*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/8/2005 11:14:12 PM # Q
The 'game' has not changed. Where are these miraculous cell phones? Where are the sales? They bought one small company in the Chinese cell phone software market. A worldwide revolution that does not make. Hype and PR fluff aside, PalmSource is still totally dependant on PalmOne for their revenue.

And, even if they did somehow manage to sustain themselves from cell phone sales in China in the event that PalmOne switched, what's the point? The Palm OS itself would be dead as a platform. There wouldn't be any significant players left making Palm OS handhelds. I don't think PalmOne is going to switch entirely, but if they did, it *would* be lights out for Palm OS.

RIM's recent sales spurt has been impressive, but there's no guarantee that they can sustain it in the long term, particularly in the face of advancing technology from traditional handhelds. Really, the only thing that RIM has had going for them is true push email.

And the 'prosumer' market isn't buying all those Treos. There are plenty of enterprise orders because, push email aside, the Treos make a good mobile email device, and they make a much better phone than most of the Blackberries.

ADB: Well said. Unfortunately, Kirvin will keep denying the truth and will then try in vain to marginalize you with his feeble "wingnut" label.


Have you heard the rumor on how long it will take to bring PalmLinux to market? Not pretty™. Current projections are that PalmSource would not last long enough as an independent company for them to be able to release PalmLinux.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
jkirvin @ 4/9/2005 3:33:36 PM # Q
VoR ranted...

"Kirvin, you're getting ridiculous. Do you even THINK before you type?"

Quite a bit, yes. Thinking, I might add, that companies are willing to pay for. Where's your bona fides? For that matter, why are you too gutless to use your real name?

"RIM is doing well because - like Palm before them - they were the first company to sell a device that successfully integrated the hardware and software to satisfy customers in a new niche. If the lost their lawsuit it could have been game over for RIM. Immediately."

And yet that didn't happen. See, that's the difference between reality and your tiny little head.

"I believe the bulk of Treo 600 sales are to corporate customers."

You're free to believe whatever you want, but you're still wrong. The vast bulk of Treo sales are individual "prosumer" purchases. Again, sticking to the facts will make you look like less of a tool.

"So you think PalmSource losing sales to Microsoft might actually HELP PalmSource's image??? Wow. You really are insane. Your "logic" seems to be the product of a diseased mind. Read your post again. Hilarious."

No, I think the Treo offered with Windows Mobile will help Palm OS's image. I see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, so let me try to make this simpler:

Many consumers see Palm OS devices as nothing more than simple organizers, "digital address books."

Many consumers see Pocket PCs as literally small PCs.

Proving that Palm OS can run on the same device as Windows Mobile will prove that the two platforms are similar in terms of capability.

The group of customers that want WM Treos and the group of customers that want Palm OS Treos will likely have very little overlap.

The small overlap between WM Treo customers and Palm OS Treo customers mean that there are few to no "lost sales" for PalmSource.

Now, VoR, let me help. What part of the above do you not understand?

"The ink is barely dry on the China MobileSoft deal and suddenly you have this Asian saviour (a tiny startup company, by the way!) obviating the need for PalmSource to sell anything outside China?"

Not necessarily, but it's not unlikely. Are you aware of the fact that there are more Chinese cell phone users than there are Americans, period? That the Chinese cell market adds 5,000,000 new customers every month? Of course you didn't know this. If you did, you wouldn't have acted foolish in public.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
mikecane @ 4/9/2005 4:50:55 PM # Q
>>>If you did, you wouldn't have acted foolish in public.

Are you kidding? He does nothing BUT. Hence the lame screen name that tries to prop up his whorehouse-sheet-laundering self.

Imagine this guy with some woman dumb enough to show an interest in him -- and him acting in person as he does here.

Blistermouth: Look at all my posts on PIC. I'm really a PDA expert!

Woman (not able to finish *one* post): You know, I've REALLY got to get the hell out of your life.

TVoR: 6, Kirvin: 0
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/9/2005 5:55:45 PM # Q
VoR said calmly...

"Kirvin, you're getting ridiculous. Do you even THINK before you type?"

Quite a bit, yes. Thinking, I might add, that companies are willing to pay for. Where's your bona fides? For that matter, why are you too gutless to use your real name?

If that was you "thinking", well I feel sorry for you. No sensible company would hire you since you obviously are clueless. (Are you still begging for a job at Palm, or did they actually already hire you to be a non-official Spin Doctor/Misinformation Manager? I don't need to post my credentials - my posts stand up for themselves and you're free to try and refute them if you can. So far, all you've proved to us is that you can't. My real name is [edited by PIC]. Shocked? Happy? Does that make my posts any more or less accurate now? Again, if you feel I'm wrong and you're right, you should be able to explain why. We're STILL waiting for you to post something that makes sense here.

"RIM is doing well because - like Palm before them - they were the first company to sell a device that successfully integrated the hardware and software to satisfy customers in a new niche. If they lost their lawsuit it could have been game over for RIM. Immediately."

And yet that didn't happen. See, that's the difference between reality and your tiny little head.


And had the Blackberry lawsuit been about anything other than someone trying to fleece Blackberry for a few hundred million $, they would have shut Blackberry down when they won the lawsuit. Instead, they reached an "agreement" with Blackberry and Blackberry had to bend over and take it Mike Cane-style.


"I believe the bulk of Treo 600 sales are to corporate customers."

You're free to believe whatever you want, but you're still wrong. The vast bulk of Treo sales are individual "prosumer" purchases. Again, sticking to the facts will make you look like less of a tool.

Please post links to where it breaks down the sales figures of Treos (private consumer vs. corporate). You can do it, Kirvin. I know you can. NOT.

"So you think PalmSource losing sales to Microsoft might actually HELP PalmSource's image??? Wow. You really are insane. Your "logic" seems to be the product of a diseased mind. Read your post again. Hilarious."

No, I think the Treo offered with Windows Mobile will help Palm OS's image. I see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, so let me try to make this simpler:

[SNIP some really shaky "logic" from a guy that needs to get someone to edit his drivel BEFORE he posts it from now on]

Now, VoR, let me help. What part of the above do you not understand?

Nothing you said makes sense, Kirvin. PPC and PalmOS device are now different flavors of the SAME thing: PDAs. They do the same thing these days, have the same features, run on the same processors and come with (almost) the same hardware. The average consumer only looks at what the devices can DO (PIM, camera, MP3, web browsing, etc.) and doesn't give a damn about which OS is running. If a PDA or smartphone comes with the familiar "Windows" name on it, the average consumer/IT peon may be more likely to choose it over an otherwise identical device running PalmOS. Such is the power of Microsoft's name and marketing muscle. That you don't seem to be able to grasp this is truly amazing. Even the newest newbie here understands that Microsoft has better brand recognition than "pa1mOne" (previously better known as "Palm"). I'm not going to bash you any more on this, since it now appears that you truly don't understand.

"The ink is barely dry on the China MobileSoft deal and suddenly you have this Asian saviour (a tiny startup company, by the way!) obviating the need for PalmSource to sell anything outside China?"

Not necessarily, but it's not unlikely. Are you aware of the fact that there are more Chinese cell phone users than there are Americans, period? That the Chinese cell market adds 5,000,000 new customers every month? Of course you didn't know this. If you did, you wouldn't have acted foolish in public.

Since you think you know so much about the Chinese domestic cellphone industry, why don't you fill in these gaps: How many phones/OS licenses did China MobileSoft sell in 2004? How big is their market share? How much did they make? What's that? Can't hear you, Kirvin. CMS is a TINY startup that happens to have some Linux engineers that PalmSource hoped could rescue enough Cobalt code that it could be cobbled into PalmLinux before everyone forgot who "Palm" was. The former Be engineers that were designing Cobalt started throwing too many wild pitches, so they were pulled in the bottom of the ninth, based loaded, PalmSource down three games to none and the score tied at zero. Do you really think China MobileSoft will save PalmSource's a$$? Do you still believe in the Easter Bunny?

You need to do some more READING before you can start touting yourself as a legitimate writer, Kirvin. Talk to Pogue or even Larry Garfield if you need some pointers. Take this as constructive criticism.


TVoR





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
mikecane @ 4/9/2005 9:08:17 PM # Q
>>>My real name is [edited by PIC].

What BS! Ryan is the only one who could edit out your name, and I doubt he's done that. Here this screeching eejit shows how stupid he thinks all of us are.

>>>and take it Mike Cane-style.

Continue your obsession with me, you illiterate. Your own "work" for PIC -- that ludicrous "Wah, Waah, Waaaah, Pweeeez Don't Kill the CLIE, Daddy Sony!" piece -- speaks for itself.

You are just a piece of meat, Mikey.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/9/2005 10:46:50 PM # Q
Bwa ha ha!





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Kirvin: Are you on the Palm payroll?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/10/2005 3:40:05 PM # Q
Just wondering, Kirvin: are you being paid by pa1mOne or PalmSource? Just want to make sure you don't have any conflict of interest here. Based on your bizarre comments in recent threads, I assume you're now being paid by one of the Palm Companies.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
hkklife @ 4/10/2005 5:33:34 PM # Q
I suspect he is. I made a comment last week questioning the status of his interview/job prospect with PalmSource and it went eerily unanswered. My guess is that he's contractually obligated to keep mum on his employment status and use writingon yourpalm.net as his "front".

On the OTHER hand, if he were so employed, it's unlikely he'd be making continued references to circumenventing DRM on the Zod, running Netfront on non-Clies etc etc.

At any rate, the discussions here on PIC have been livelier and more entertaining than they have been in months. Voice, are we going to be seeing your VZ90 review prior to the LifeDrive launch? It'd make for fascinating reading...and then maybe a side-by-side test between those two units as an addendum at a later date.



Astroturfing?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/10/2005 6:06:40 PM # Q
I suspect he is. I made a comment last week questioning the status of his interview/job prospect with PalmSource and it went eerily unanswered. My guess is that he's contractually obligated to keep mum on his employment status and use writingon yourpalm.net as his "front".

That's pathetic. This would mean Palm has sunk to Microsoft's level and is now "Astroturfing". Wow. I expect we won't ever hear a peep out of Kirvin about this. I'll see if I can find out whether or not he got hired and then "out" his Astroturfing a$$ here on PIC.

On the OTHER hand, if he were so employed, it's unlikely he'd be making continued references to circumenventing DRM on the Zod, running Netfront on non-Clies etc etc.

Isn't it funny how he claims to be a "writer", yet has absolutely no respect for the intellectual property of others? Maybe it's because he has no intellectual property himself... Did you see the way he tried to rationalize his promotion of the theft of the CLIE NetFront browser by Tam Hanna? Unreal. It was like watching a four year old lie about stealing cookies. And this is someone that might work for PalmSource? At that rate, maybe they can hire The Zodiac Killer to head up work on PalmLinux???

At any rate, the discussions here on PIC have been livelier and more entertaining than they have been in months. Voice, are we going to be seeing your VZ90 review prior to the LifeDrive launch? It'd make for fascinating reading...and then maybe a side-by-side test between those two units as an addendum at a later date.

A colleague borrowed it last week and I'm waiting to get it back to take the photos and screenshots for the review. If Ryan is interested in publishing it, I'll send it in later this month and he can publish it after he reviews the new Palm. Yes, it will make for an interesting contrast to the new Palm. A comparison test between the two would have to be done by someone else. I don't plan on purchasing any more traditional PDAs - we now have enough CLIEs to use for the next 10 years and won't be buying any pa1mOne products unless they somehow fix their quality control. All I really want at this point is for Samsung to release one of those Vaporphones they've kept announcing over the past two years.






*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
mikecane @ 4/10/2005 8:23:38 PM # Q
Poor blistermouth. When did the wife divorce you and what did she tell the judge that gave her custody of the two kids? I mean, after all, didn't the judge know you were a "medical professional"? Hahahaha. You couldn't buy another PDA if you wanted. Those alimony and child support payments must be killer. You should have come out of the closet earlier. Everyone knew it was all a sham, that "marriage." BTW, how have the hormone injections been coming along? I guess those blisters are actually bumps from the electrolysis...

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
jkirvin @ 4/10/2005 11:20:17 PM # Q
I'm out. I just don't have time for this anymore.

FYI, disclosure: http://tinyurl.com/5m2nb

Awwwwwwwww!
Gekko @ 4/10/2005 11:29:26 PM # Q

Awwwwwwwww! Looks like kirvin took his ball and went home!

What a big baby!



Drama Queens at PIC
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 4/11/2005 9:41:36 AM # Q
Poor blistermouth. When did the wife divorce you and what did she tell the judge that gave her custody of the two kids? I mean, after all, didn't the judge know you were a "medical professional"? Hahahaha. You couldn't buy another PDA if you wanted. Those alimony and child support payments must be killer. You should have come out of the closet earlier. Everyone knew it was all a sham, that "marriage." BTW, how have the hormone injections been coming along? I guess those blisters are actually bumps from the electrolysis...

Don't be so homophobic, Mike. People are people. I'm sure Dianne Hackborn is real impressed with your recent slur. Or are you no longer obsessed with her after seeing what she looks like? Dumba$$.

I'm out. I just don't have time for this anymore.

FYI, disclosure: http://tinyurl.com/5m2nb

Very dramatic, Kirvin. Your post on your little blog site is very classy:

"Sunday, April 10, 2005
PalmInfocenter and Astroturfing
PalmInfocenter Detailed Comment View (7748)

It's sad when good web sites go bad...

I'm never reading PalmInfocenter again, Ryan. You can't keep the trolls from engaging in personal attacks, and frankly, I've had enough and have better things to do with my time than deal with those wingnuts. I don't mind dissenting opinions, in fact I love them. I love a good debate. But these people aren't debating. They're engaging in personal attacks. They're trolls, pure and simple.

For those of you that don't read PIC (and you ain't missing anything), I've been personally attacked quite a bit recently by cowards who won't use their real names. My crime was saying nice things about PalmOne and PalmSource, which can't be allowed by this group of sad, bitter people.

However, I do feel compelled to state, for the record, my relationship with PalmOne and with PalmSource. I doubt the bitter will believe me, but for those you that still have open minds...

My relationship with PalmOne is purely that of a happy customer. I don't work for PalmOne in any way. I don't even get review units from them, although I'm certainly going to ask when they announce the Life Drive.

My relationship with PalmSource is a little more complicated. I have done some consulting work for them, for which I collected my one-time fee. I have also interviewed to replace Chris Dunphy as their Director of Competitive Analysis, and didn't get the job. They recently filled that position with someone from Transmeta. I no longer have any financial dealings with PalmSource at all. I am on an invite-only mailing list populated with PalmSource employees and folks that run Palm-oriented websites. There is no financial impact from being on this list.

That's it. I'm not being paid to shill for either company. In fact, if anything, losing out on the job at PalmSource could have made me bitter and antagonistic towards them.

But I'm better than that. I say what I say about these companies because I believe it. I'm a big fan of Palm OS and I'm a happy PalmOne customer. And anyone who doesn't like that is entitled to their opinion, but I just don't have time to listen to them anymore."

If that's your attitude, maybe now we know why PalmSource was wise to avoid hiring you. Think about it, Kirvin. I hope you have the guts to apologize to Ryan for your childish rant.






*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

PIC is #1
Gekko @ 4/11/2005 10:18:48 AM # Q

PIC is #1. PIC is the definitive site for no-holds-barred news, info, and discussion. kirvin only wishes he could create such a popular site. I found this hack/shill's posts here offensive as they were an insult to our intelligence.

GOOD RIDDANCE!

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
mikecane @ 4/11/2005 10:24:02 AM # Q
Me, homophobic? WHO keeps making the "bend over" comments to everyone? THOSE aren't slurs? You never did say what's up with the two kids. The move from Michigan to the Bay Area must have cost a few quid too -- or were you run out on a rail? When you choose your new feminine name, it's OK for it to begin with an R. Your birth name did, after all.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
hkklife @ 4/11/2005 11:19:12 AM # Q
Kirvin's comments about "stop living in the past" in response to the matters of a Graffiti 1 plug-in for current devices (which, I must add, was going along swell here on PIC until he stepped in and began his tirade) speak for themselves. He has, what, 3 domains of his own registered by now? I think he has plenty of places to air his views already.

I think it's time again to show our support for Ryan and his tireless one-man-show to keep PIC alive. Not only alive but devoid of the sanitizing that has rinsed all of the zeal from Brighthand, 1src, PDABuzz et al over the past few years.

Bravo, Ryan!


RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
mikecane @ 4/11/2005 1:27:30 PM # Q
Well, kudos to Ryan, of course.

"Rinsed all the zeal" -- so we're zealots now? But wasn't that Jeff's point?

For myself, I'd like to know how many Average People upgraded their OS4 units to an OS5 unit, tried to do the Graffiti they had learned, then found lhey were now wrlllng llke lhls -- got disgusted, and gave up on "Palms"?

G1 NOW. G1 FOREVER.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
hkklife @ 4/11/2005 1:57:17 PM # Q
Sorry, Mike, I meant to say that PIC was sticking true to its "no-holds-barred, no-punches-pulled, no hamfisted, bumbling explanations on why the T5 isn't as bad as it's made out to be, etc etc" guns in light of the advertiser-friendly whitwashing & dwindling interest levels that has plagued other mobile-related (TreoCentral & Engadget aside, of course) sites the past few years.

Zealots we're not. Just loyal, long-time POS users unafraid to call a spade a spade in regards to the events unfolding around what we feel is a superior mobile platform.

and, yes, G1 forever. Wanna pledge some $ to the G1 resurrection bounty?

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
mikecane @ 4/11/2005 4:01:21 PM # Q
Has anyone officially started a bounty? I'll be there. Not with much to start, but eventually.

RE: The dark side! First a little boy then became jealous.
hkklife @ 4/11/2005 5:16:07 PM # Q
Voice and I are good for $50 apiece. I think Gekko unofficially chimed in with support as well. I am sure after the jackpotI tossed out the idea of someone registering www.savegraffiticlassic.com or www.savegraffiti1.com and doing just a standard PayPal collection plate thing. I am sure the offers will rolling in after the pot hits $200 or $300 or so and we get a few mentions on some POS-friendly site/blogs.

WANTED