Comments on: Palm Says 3 New Treo Smartphones in 2006

Don't be surprised if that's nearly ALL of the new releases they have in '06 (other than a few final FrankenGarnet rehases/repackagings).

Anyone care to speculate what is going to be released?

My guess:

1. 700p. Basically the 700w with Garnet & 320*320. No other major updates other than EVDO and the improved camera. It'll debut on Sprint, never be on Verizon and take a while to trickle out to the GSM markets.

2. Low-end ~$200 Treo. Think Treo 600 (160*160) but with NVFS and a small/nifty/hip formfactor and colors. This one might omit the keyboard entirely.

3. "Hollywood" Treo. Essentially the 700p in a slimmer formfactor. Think of it as what the Palm Vx hardware was to the IIIxe -slimmer & stylish but no more oomph under the hood. Perhaps a return of the metal-clad Palm?

4. Treo 750w (minor updates for non-Verizon carriers) OR a home-brewed Linux solution. I'll let the true prognosticators here take a crack at what the 4th release might be.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

700w = yawn.

700p = 700w except Garnet. Sadly the massive antenna will probably still be there. I wish it were not the uglier 700w form, but I assume it will be due to dev costs.

Hollywood = Hipper trim and no antenna, hi-rez screen etc. TE2 specs, Palm OS

Lowrider = Z22 specs converged with keyboard and radio. Palm OS & no cam. Free or close to it from US subsidizers.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Wow! Palm hopes to introduce more smartphones in one year than it has in the past two years?!

Seeing the relationship between the Tungsten E, T5 and Tx, I've a cynical feeling that one of these "new" smartphones will look suspiciously like a Treo600 but come with NVFS memory.

By the way, what happened to all those Cobalt smartphones and devices Palmsource/David Nagel said we were going to see in 2005?
I wonder, have they disappeared with Jeff Kirvin, Dr Opinion, Lord Lucan, Glen Miller and Bigfoot?

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Did Nagel actually claim Cobalt would ship in '05? I know
GSPDA claimed they'd ship a Cobalt phone in '05, but I don't think PalmSource ever made a claim for '05 shipping.

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

The primary focus of this week's PalmSource Developer Conference is to unveil Palm OS Cobalt to the world. Mr. Nagel called it "the most important piece of technology that we've ever created."

PalmSource re-wrote 80% of the Palm OS to create Cobalt. It brings to the operating system features it needs to remain competitive, including full multitasking ability, native ARM applications, and other high-end features.

An overview of the features of Palm OS Cobalt is available in this article, and one showing PalmSource's future plans for it is in this one.

The question on everyone's lips at the PalmSource Conference is when the first devices running Cobalt will be available. Mr. Nagel and the rest of the PalmSource executives who have spoken have declined to say anything about this, pointing out that this is really up to the licensees. Larry Slotnick, the company's Chief Product Officer, would only say that devices running Palm OS Cobalt are "coming, compelling, and many."

Mr. Nagel said he expects to see Cobalt running on a wide variety of devices, including ones with large, high-resolution screens like tablets and e-readers. He also mentioned the possibility of Cobalt-powered digital video players.

http://www.brighthand.com/article/PS04_Nagel_Keynote

Yes, Nagel/PalmSource did claim that Cobalt devices were going to ship in 2004/2005. In fact, PalmSource people specifically said to the press that they had 11 (I'm pretty sure it was 11) Cobalt devices that they were expecting to launch in the first quarter of 2005. Didn't really happen, did it?

The TX gets more like 7 hours of battery life as a maximum, depending on how you adjust the backlight.

Nagel said a bunch of dumb stuff at '04 devcon, but I don't see any promises of an '05 delivery to end customers of Cobalt devices.

Like I said, to date, only GSPDA has ever claimed that a Cobalt device would ship in '05. And they've still got a few days...

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

Dec. 21, 2005 ... It aint over until the FAT32 sings!

BTW, Nagel's been fired ... with $3M severence no doubt. NEXT.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Now "Carl", be fair. That was OldPalmSource. This is NewAccess. Mike Kelley is telling the trade press that PalmLinux will be in the hands of NewAccess customers in '06, and I believe him.

You're wrong about number 1, by the way. Switching from one kernel to another does change stability and performance problems. (Ask anyone who tried to use BSD on top of Mach.)

I can't say anything about 2, because that would violate an NDA.

I can't say anything about 3, because I wasn't around then, so I don't know.

I will say that 6.1 was running on real hardware in December '04. (I guess it is OK to say that, since it was already said that it was ready in August '04.)

But when it comes to embedded Linux, late is better, because it gives the hardware more time to catch up.

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

Why yes it does. That's why CPUs turn off during the idle loop ;)

But seriously, Moore's law applies to hardware, but software gets slower as it gets older, not faster. Fortunately for us users, it gets slower at a much slower rate than hardware gets faster.

More than a few times in my career I've seen people struggle for years with a performance problem in software merely to have it solved by the hardware outgrowing the issue.

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

Welcome back, Doc Op. I see your new medications have had no effect. How sad.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Handheld market as defined as portable PDA devices sporting an orange logo?

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Gartner data seperates data oriented handhelds and anything designed like a phone. To get a better picture, you need to add together the phone and handheld sales, both retail and online. That will probably add up to something like 60% Palm, 15-20% HP, and ~10% Dell, with the remaining 10-20% being various PPC phones and misc manufacturers. This is obviously not figuring in the Blackberries, or whatever else.

All present. All lies. All the time! :)

Gotta hand it to you, Gekko. It takes a subtle mind to conflate Marty Fouts' "Palm OS is dying" message with Dr. Opinion's "Palm OS is obliterating all competition" message and come up with a coherent lie that our "squad" is delivering. Perhaps coherence isn't the Anti-Truth Squad's goal but coverage. Since my lies lie somewhere in the middle between Marty's lies and Dr O's lies PIC readers have the full spectrum of lies available to them. Choose your lie: Palm OS is dying, Palm OS is in limbo, Palm OS is unstoppable.

Just remember: it's all a lie.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

beersie - just remember, it's not a life if *YOU* believe it.

I say ... BELIEVE and ye shall have LIFE ... Lizard Boy! :-D

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Cervezas wrote"

"Since my lies lie somewhere in the middle between Marty's lies and Dr O's lies PIC readers have the full spectrum of lies available to them. Choose your lie: Palm OS is dying, Palm OS is in limbo, Palm OS is unstoppable.

Just remember: it's all a lie."

ROFL, David. Nice one!

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Well said.

I don't know about 3G, but I do know they will be high-speed data access through the Scottish countryside.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

I doubt it. As yet, there's no uniform satellite data service that covers the world, and you would need a lot more power than the average Treo to punch a signal out there.

The reference to high speed data (wasn't it in Ireland?) was made by Colligan, who was talking about how their "next generation product" would let him have high speed anywhere, even looking up his family history as he drove through Scotland, Ireland, wherever.

No. It was Ed Colligen commenting about a month or two ago on using some kind of high-speed Treo product while driving/riding thru the Scottish(i think) countryside. Images of a 3G Euro device come immediately to mind.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Wouldn't it be rather dangerous to drive *through* a coast? I mean, as I understand coastlines, they usually have an ocean on one side. That's not conducive to driving.

Pat;
Good comments about the Treo 600 golden egg. Even though I don't like it personally I admire what it did for the industry at the time. And, of course, it kept Palm afloat.

At the time I knew/said the Palm VII was a joke. Same with the VIIx & i705. Even the T|W (the best execution of that series, however) was destined to flop.

Palm should never have even tried to graft phone functionality onto the T|W. Instead, they should have had in their lineup a cellular DATA-only Tungsten: Spring '03 could've launched the T|C & a "real" T|W. Both with OS5, same formfactor and esssentially the same specs. Take your pick between wi-fi or cellular. Then come out with a model in fall '04 or spring '05 shoehorning wi-fi & a cellular radio (BT would be redundant) into the same formfactor with a removable battery and a better keyboard (think a 480*320 T|C with a larger Treo 650 style keyboard and no antenna). THAT would've put the fear of Pat Horne into RIM!

Alas, it's not to be.

Palm has coasted on the glories of the T|E and Treo 600 for well over two years now. Imagine what a single Palm Inc. (no PalmSource spin-off) could do with Hawkins/Dubinsky/Colligan and most of the Handspring team onboard, the Treo waiting in the wings and without the distractions of the spinoff/PalmOne rebranding/Palm rebranding/an extra $30 mil/bidding for PalmSource etc.

There probably would not have been a LifeDrive--or at least such a disasterous execution of such a device--had they not tried to play the shell game with their investors & their dwindling base of loyal customers. Now they are OUT of excuses. It's time for them to produce or be turned into glue. I would expect NO LESS than four new smartphones in '06 if they are to even be taken seriously by the carriers and the industry.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

We sure have a lot of Brits here. Let's see: Surer, ChiA, KultiVator, SamH, who am I missing?

It's interesting just because I don't think of the UK as being a big Palm stronghold.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Huh. How about that... just checked and sure enough you guys *are* on the same globe as us! And here I thought the "U" in "UK" stood for Uranus. :)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

"In another room, a few executives watched Carl Yankowski's interview on CNBC, taping it for playback at the employee meeting that was to commence in minutes. After CNBC announcers gushed over "the most talked-about IPO," the camera cut to Carl Yankowski in the Nasdaq studio. Usually a compelling public speaker, Yankowski seemed out of his element. When asked about larger screens for palmtops, he answered stiffly, "We are well positioned whichever way the market goes." As the interview came to a close, the reporter said, "I've got to ask you about your suit." Yankowski smiled. He was wearing a very special suit, he let on, designed to satisfy the public's high expectations from Palm's IPO. The shiny pinstripes woven into the otherwise standard wool suit were made from threads of pure gold. CNBC cut back to the studio anchor. "Was that for real?" he asked the correspondent. The Palm managers assembled around the TV set looked at each other. "We're not showing this video," one of the executives decreed. Then they walked out to start the employee meeting."

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Who's Carl Yankowski?

I am.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

You can buy yourself PLENTY of mint condition TH55s with last summer's Majesco lump payout, eh, "Carl"? ;-) ;-)

Hey, they should have looked into my track record BEFORE they hired me.

I already have all the NEW (unopened) Bluetooth TH55 I'll ever need and have Bluetoothed my entire bunker. I'm especially proud of my Bluetoothed Bathroom. Last week I asked my old buddy Dianne Hackborn to code me a special app called "Flush" (complete with a swirling Palm logo animation) before she and all the American PalmSource employees are "downsized" by Cheap Chinese Codemonkeys next year.

Wait until you see Cobalt running on my TH55. Unbelievable. I'm running the latest version of Cobalt (code name: Ether) and it's almost as fast as when I use my 33 MHz Dragonball to transcode DVDs.

The bunker is carpeted with golden fleece and the wallpaper is made of written off Palm Vx. Don't hate me.

Love,
Carl "Bluetooth" Yankowski (a.k.a. "Tubby")

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Ether! VR, you're killin' me man.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

^^^ Don't forget the Flipper too!

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

I have no idea, but maybe he wasn't talking about number of countries, but rather number of subscribes. Who is large in China? Maybe he simply meant DoCoMo?

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

If it were DoCoMo, there wouldn't be any question about it not getting released in the US. DoCoMo's network isn't compatible to anyone else's. I'm guessing it's Orange or Vodafone.

Ed did say this Palm is being made specifically for this carrier and that it may not be released in the US.

By implication there's a possibility that it can be released in the US therefore this carrier must operate in the US, remember this Treo is being made specifically (ie exclusively) for this carrier. Therefore the carrier operates in at least two countries (ie the US and one other country, probably more) if they can market their exclusive phone without bringing it to the US.

For your information, Verizon Wireless is a joint venture between Vodafone and Verizon Communications. Vodafone operates in 41 countries around the globe - that's what I call international! It's undoubtedly the world's largest mobile operator and it's a real scoop if Palm is manufacturing exclusively for them.

"It is commonly said, and more particularly by Lord Shaftesbury, that ridicule is the best test of truth".
Lord Chesterfield

I've posted something similar before, so apologies to those who hate repetition.

In the recent NYT interview:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/10/business/10extended.html?ex=1135400400&en=537604d0dc29b9a5&ei=5070

Ed Colligan mentions Vodafone a couple of times:

"The services Vodafone offers are very different to that Verizon offers, so we no have a dedicated team here building on the network and service preferences of our European customers.”

" The company will also continue to work to support Vodafone’s RealMail service"

Add to that the fact that Palm have opened an R&D centre in Ireland, a country in which Vodafone has a network but Orange doesn't, and the UK Palm site has been advertising the 650 on Vodafone but not Orange, and I think the signs are pointing to a Palm-Voda alliance (possibly with the loss of links with Orange).

Ed also said:

"When you see our next-gen product, it has a high-speed radio in it, literally bringing kind of broadband connection speeds to the device. It totally changes the dynamic of how accessible the Internet is as an information access point wherever you are and whenever you want to get access to it.
Everything from looking up the meaning of words, booking a table at OpenTable.com, to doing a Google search on my family history in Ireland as I’m driving through the Irish coast when we’re opening our center over there."

So we can conclude that Ed had a working 3G GSM device a couple of months ago and the Hollywood release might not be that far away.

Will it be POS or WM5? I've been quite convinced by surur's argument, both here and at TreoCentral, that Hollywood would be WM5, the major doubt being that a WM5 device mght tread on Verizon's toes (if not actually contravene the exclusivity agreement). I'm sure Palm doen't want to be in the business of upsetting the carriers with which it's worked so hard to build relationships. Reading between the lines though:

"Colligan also stated that one of these models was designed specifically for a large international carrier and may not ever see a US release."

might be "We'll release it overseas first and not in the US until we can do so without peeing off Verizon".

My prediction then (FWIW!):

Hollywood: WM5, quad band, UMTS, 320x240 screen, no keyboard, Vodafone, April 2006.

320x240 because 1) the WM5 UI is horribly cramped on 240x240, 2) movies would just be nasty in a letter box on a 240x240 (you can't have a multi-media device, code named Hollywood!, that's bad for movies, can you?), 3) VGA would probably kill the battery too quickly.

No keyboard because: 1) putting it under a 320x240 would make the device too long, 2) flips and slideout solutions make devices fat (Universal, Wizard) and it's supposed to be thin.

April because: it's the coolest month*

*sorry!!

I really don't see Palm tinkering with the form factor too much. Hard to see a lower end model getting better rez than the WM flagship too. I can see an antenna drop and a thinner device with small screen, but I don't see the keyboard getting lost, fo it seems the whole communication's side of convergence depends on it. JMO.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

>Benq P50?

Precisely:

http://msmobiles.com/news.php/3496.html

http://blog.treonauts.com/2005/01/treo_killer_ben.html

Did they ever release that thing?

"Keboard-less, touchscreen, phones have not done well in the UK market. Anyone remember Motos attempt many moons ago? No? Not suprised."

I've seen a few of the various HTC Magician-base devices arround. I actually had one myself for a while (hated it - diabolical one-handed navigation).

Hollywood will either be:

1)Thin and stylish
2)Keyboardless

or

1)Have a pathetic battery life (in comparison to the 650)
2)Useless for messaging

The way I see it, you can't slim down a power-hungry smartphone like the Treo too much without severely compromising the battery life. I can get two days of constant usage out of my 650 before it dies. Will Hollywood be able to make the same claim?

And even if it doesn't have a keyboard, it will *need* at least a physical keypad. SMS is a lot bigger in Europe and Oz than it is in the US. Touchscreens don't provide the tactile feedback you need when typing away, and Graffiti require two hands free.

It seems the best option is to just hide the keyboard, which has become one of the Treo's distinguishing features. Whether with a slider or a flip, or even leaving it exposed, I don't care. But you can't get rid of physical buttons on a phone. Years in the future maybe. But not yet.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

The Treo Flipper cometh ...
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treoflipper.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Here here! (or is it Hear Hear?)

Although, I'd like the flipper design better if it retained 650-style hard buttons in a row, rather than the 4x4 grid design. Hard buttons in a row works much better for games...

Other than that, it's awesome.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Tim,

I've wondered the same thing myself. Hire someone to merge the DVDdecrypter + PocketDivXEncoder into 1 desktop app with a unmistakable user interface with limited options for 320x320 or HVGA. Have the option to copy the DVD direct to the SD at the click of a button. Skin TCPMP to look like your other apps and shazaam ... Pocket Movie Direct is born!

All the hard work's been done it seems.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Yes!!! Un-freakin-believable that Palm hasn't capitalised on the multi-media market! Palm OS devices were doing mp3 before ipod and yet apple came along with sexy looking units (with good ui design) and - most of all - MARKETING! All that work that went into the lifedrive and yet they failed to take it the extra 2% of the way and just add tcpmp and more importantly - advertise the CRAP out of it! I mean - everybody knows of the ipod - look at all of the tv / radio / billboard ads that Apple paid untold ten-of-millions for.
Now perhaps it's good that Palm didn't do this yet because of the technical flaws in their execution of the Lifedrive concept. But when v2 comes around, they need to make everybody in the world aware of the fact that this thing plays all video formats, all audio formats, AND does 5000 other things that the ipod and the newer media players cannot do. I'm talking a major tv ad campaign that shows kids playing Warfare Inc. and Edge while listening to their mp3s. Ads with smarmy ipod kids being cooly shown up by their Lifedrive peers demonstrating that their Palm does the same - and a million things more. I bet 95% of the north american population has never heard of a lifedrive and does not realize that u can even play video on a Palm (probably more likee 99%). The geeks here know, but just last night i ran into a clie user and told him about tcpmp. He couldn't believe that u could playback 'real' video on a Palm device. Most people still think Palms are those old black and white organizers and that real multimedia capabilities in a pda only exist in Pocket PC units.

Palm: advertise, advertise, advertise! Why are these guys acting so conservatively while the rest of the world is running them over? They need to take that $200 million (!!!!) tax rebate and just spend 30-40% on a major tv blitz. Palm - wake up!!! It's 2005, not 1998! Your market is no longer some $50-100 million niche market that you have all to yourself. You have competition now - but you have MUCH greater opportunity now too. Success is right there for the taking!

Well? What r u waiting for? Replace those stagnent marketing hacks and get going!!!

Palm seem to forget that lack of imagination in their product range = lack of reason for user base to upgrade to latest crop of devices.

It also gives early adopters little to wow their peers with - meaning less proliferation.

So the Palm economy suffers all round.

Now all we need is for Maxis software to bring out a "Sim Palm Inc" game and we could all have a go at running the company!

Hope you guys are all enjoying the festive season!

I am looking out of my study window at a very snowy English scene - the first time this close to Xmas that I can remember. Let's hope Palm future is less bleak.

KultiVator

GREED, GREED, GREED!

The road is now surely (Sururely?) paved for the 750W!

UNLESS...this pitiful amount was somehow forced upon Palm by Verizon. I cannot fathom why they'd impose such a restriction other than to keep their users running "lean'n mean" 700Ws so as to minimize the headaches of Verizon support personnel.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Well, that removes one bullet-point from the comparison table.

Treo 650
* Cant multi-task

Treo 700w
* Cant multi-task either.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

True, but this is certainly very far from a high end device. Why did they have to miss EVERY opportunity to make this device at least equivalent to the other devices on the market. It has less ram, less ROM, no WIFI, slower processor, older bluetooth, no A2DP, the list goes on. The only thing it has going for it is the form factor (as usual).

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

HkkLife wrote:

"I cannot shake the feeling that the 700w hardware has been "done" for a year or so."

You're probably right on this. Despite Palm putting on a brave face about the MS relationship, I bet the decision to prototype a WinMob unit was somewhat easier than the decision to put the thing into production.

That there new fangled Treo W.... it has no balls!

A Tired & Weary KultiVator

1. wifi hurts verzion data plan revenue.
2. 32MB RAZM is good enough for your average joe.

Surely you can run apps from the SD Card?

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Surur wrote

"Well, that removes one bullet-point from the comparison table.

Treo 650
* Cant multi-task......"

Sorry dude, got to call you on this one. I use my GPS with PocketTunes running in the background all the time. As you yourself have noted, anything's possible with enough programmer talent/motivation...

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Everyones's catching up with the Treo's abilities:
Just look at the Blackberry 8700c:
www.blackberry.com/products/blackberry8700/blackberry8700c.shtml

This Blackberry matches or exceeds almost all the features of the Treo 700w (Windows Mobile excepted)

If the Treo 700w is the best Palm has to offer for 2006 then the Blackberry 8700c is smacking its lips, waiting to eat the 700w alive!

If, as Gekko said, 95% of the market don't care about the crippled 32MB of the 700w, then that 95% is more likely to go for the "talk of the town" Blackberry than the relatively geeky Treo.

"It is commonly said, and more particularly by Lord Shaftesbury, that ridicule is the best test of truth".
Lord Chesterfield

maybe marcol is right - maybe 32MB on the WM Treo will function more like heap?

^^OK I was a bit confused with reality and hypothesis there. I hope you get the general idea though!

You can still buy Dells with 256mb base RAM and Windows Media Center...until recently you could get a Dell with 128mb RAM and Win XP.

Cutting RAM is the oldest cost-cutting strategy in the world-not necevssarily to save a few $ but to push people towards the higher-margin "loaded" model.

I've long maintained that Palm should at least offer from Palm.com "higher RAM" versions of their mainstream retail offerings. It really does look like the "generous" amounts of RAM lavished on the T|C, T3, T5, and TX doesn't apply in the smartphone world.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Its an assumption, but a pretty safe one.

PPC 6700
64MB RAM
49.42 available to OS
34.69 available to user after boot
15 MB used by OS

Treo 700w
32MB RAM
25.49 available to OS
10.84 available to user after boot.
15 MB used by OS

Dell x51v (non-phone)
64 MB of RAM
49.47 MB available to OS
32.65 MB available to user after boot
16.82 MB used by OS

HP 1950 (32 MB non-phone)
12 MB available to user after boot.

Its pretty clear, the way most of these devices are set up, that the OS uses 15+ MB.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

Well, that removes one bullet-point from the comparison table.
Treo 650
* Cant multi-task
Treo 700w
* Cant multi-task either.

... Surur, that's hillarious!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Treo 650
* Can't multi-task
Treo 700w
* Can't multi-task either.

Will it at least be able to perform background crashes?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

>Can a TREO be a TREO without a QWERTY keyboard? How strange!

Has been before, could be again! As I recall though the 180g was a bit of a flop.

Interesting note (from what I've seen, perhaps this is an incorrect observation):

The Earthlink Treo (riding on the Sprint network, btw) has not received ANY firmware or downloadable updates.

Perhaps that's Palm's strategy with the $200 budget Lowrider Treo--no support/mask ROM?

Aren't cell phones with non-updatable firmware a no-no, especially for CDMA carriers?

A keyboard-free Treo wouldn't be THAT big of a deal if implemented properly. Heck, I'd give up the keyboard in a heartbeat if I could have a decently sized 320*480 screen!

The NGage is now completely dead, btw. RIM's still in hot water. Now's the time for Palm to strike and to STOP being stingy with the RAM! Can anyone else recall a company posting nice profits & growth in a calendar year in which they release NO new smartphones (aka the "flagship product of the future")?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

The PALM CEO JUST got done saying more than one time under repeated questioning "early 2006".

If it were "earliest 2006" he would have said so.

Be Careful Out There!

The word "launch" has different meanings depending on who/what is incanting it.

HAND/PalmOne/PALM has the habit - historically unambiguously proven, BTW - of using "launch" to mean:

== "You can call 'us' and get info and maybe place an order even
== but don't expect to have it in your possession anytime soon"

The ORANGE release of one of the prior TREOs was a classic example of this.

This interesting use of the word "launch" has been widely (and often!) discussed. If you're interested in seeing just SOME of the cases, go over to TreoCentral's discussion boards and do an Advanced Search for posts by SeldomVisitor that have the keywords "treo" and "launch" - and maybe even "orange".

Unfortunately I am not the Michael Powell who is related to Colin (grin).

I sent you a Garnet one, Surur. It's the greatest gift of all I could give you: enlightenment. :P Merry Christmas.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Happy New Year

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05