Comments on: The Palm Pilot Story Video
Article Comments
(66 comments)
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.
RE: So long yet SO little accomplished
LOOK & LISTEN to those smug b@sturds! What were they cooking up already back then? The next question is telling too...listen how they think there will continue to be keyboard-free versions of the Treo! Don't you wish someone had had the savvy to ask them if they were planning on abandoning the glorious Graffiti they spend so much time championing in this talk!?!
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: So-long yet SO little
> day-to-day basis?...
He is "Chief Technical Officer" of PALM. No one has ever said what a "Chief Technical Officer" does at PALM, as far as I can remember over the history of the "new PALM".
> ...Does he even show up for work anymore...
Back during the (late) Handspring days he was already purported to be working one day a week for Handspring - I would seriously doubt he's working MORE than he did then now - he has both his Brain Institute and Yet Another Private Company to run.
> ...or does he just stop by to pick up his checks now and again?...
I don't remember seeing ANYTHING about a compensation package for him with the "new PALM", as such it is totally unclear (to me, at least) if he even HAS a paycheck. Maybe someday I (or someone more intimately interested in such things) will do a thorough study of late Handspring/early New Palm SEC filings to see if such a beast is mentioned.
In about two years, at his current PALM-stock sell-out rate, Hawkins will be out of his (current) PALM position entirely.
RE: So long yet SO little accomplished
>In about two years, at his current PALM-stock sell-out rate, Hawkins will be out of his (current) PALM position entirely.
It's smart to diversify his holdings. I'd be selling like a madman too. It looks like he's on a set automatic schedule. I'd put that shiit in cash and bonds. why take a risk? You only have to get rich ONCE.
RE: So long yet SO little accomplished
From the timeline at http://www.handhirn.de/en/history.php
* Released a landscape screen handheld
* Released a $100 price point handheld
* Released handhelds with integrated digital cameras
* Released two successful OS 5.x smartphones
* Released handhelds with integrated Wi-Fi
* Released handhelds with non-volatile memory for application data
* Released a handheld with an integrated hard drive
* Released a smartphone with a non Palm OS operating system
And the number one Palm achievement since 2002
* Palm is still in business in 2006
Yeah, they have accomplished so little in four years.
RE: So long yet SO little accomplished
2. Yes, but this could be done by many, many, MANY other firms--especially the Chinese & Koreans--if they so desired. The lack of any significant competition in the $100 market is due to the rapidly consolidating handheld market as well as M$'s high licensing fees. But it *COULD* be done by dozens and dozens of firms if they felt a need to have product at that pricepoint.
3. By any measure, this "accolade" is a huge stretch. Everything Palm's released with an integrated digicam has been, at best, barely mediocre and, at worst, nearly useless. Sony had a SUPERB quality "real" camera with 2mp with a REAL flash on the NZ90 back in '03 and I still would not call that revolutionary by any means. When <$100 cellphones have better quality cameras w/ flash than the "flagship" Treo 650 or 700, that's not an encouraging sign for Palm. This is a prime example of Palm doing something half-hearted just to say "we have a camera too".
4. By far the single-and only-undisputable "achievement" on your list, reylons. For further musings on the Treo's significance, see comments #8.
5.Again, Palm was YEARS late to the integrated wi-fi party. Look how it took to get integrated BT & wi-fi on a single model. This is just keeping up (barely) with the rest of the market, not setting standards.
6. NVFS, while an intriguing concept, has had NUMEROUS pitfalls that IMO still outweigh its advantages. Palm's units take a performance hit, have compatability problems with non-optimized and/or legacy apps and now have issues with security/privacy with data not being completely erased from devices when they are sold/lost/RMA'd.
7. See above. The ONE advantage the LD's HD offered (kinda large storage space for cheap $) has now been utterly and completely rendered useless by the plummeting flash RAM prices. Even a year ago, the LD's HD was a debatable inclusion. Palm's crippled "HD as memory" architecture was the nail in the LD's coffin. HDs in portable devices now ONLY make sense if they are at least 20gb in size. Storage space in the single digits is now achievable via flash and is superior in every way to a mechanical HD.
8. A WinMob Treo is an ACHIEVEMENT? Are you a Palm OS fan or merely a Palm Inc. fan? I didn't ask for Palm's nutshell history since 2002 nor did I insinuate the company had done NOTHING in that time frame. I am speaking of ACHIEVEMENTS--that is to say, "memorable and noteworthy successes that elevate the bar for mobile computing". Like it or not, the Treo 600 was Palm's final such product. And let's all remember who actually designed it (Handspring). Palm merely snatched up the crown jewel off of a dying company's otherwise empty treasure chest and has done PITIFULLY little to improve or otherwise advance the Treo since 2003.
Now, it's entirely possible I'll be eating these words in 3-6 months' time. I HOPE I am forced to, especially with the Treo comments. However, I am just reporting on Palm's shipping/previously shipped devices and their dubious track record over the past four years. Even the staunchest Palm apologist or fanboy has to admit that Palm has had more legal/business/marketing manveuverings over the past few years than they've actually been able to devote time/$ to serious R&D & quality control. Again, let's hope I have to eat those words. I am just offering a fair, and reasonably critical assesment of Palm's doings from the perspective of a "frustrated long-time user/fan of the OS".
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: So long yet SO little accomplished
Hawkins has made great innovations; Graffiti, the original PalmOS, the PalmPilot, the expandable Visor, the Treo. However, he has moved on to other things, as is his right. He has his money.
Here we are now, with a 20 million PDA a year market when you include Blackberries, Palm and WinMob pure PDAs, Sidekicks, Treos, and high-end Symbian cellphones. The sky is the limit, and teck gadgets have never been so popular. (ipods, gameboys, etc.) Innovation in this market should be massive.
However, innovation is almost dead at Palm. They just sorta slowly add to the old PalmPilot, mostly doing a two-step-forward, one-step-back routine.
Handspring Visor, Palm V, Treo 180, Treo 90, Treo 600, Treo 650...
MTT
Hawkins made out OK
~$40,000,000 CASHED OUT sold shares.
~1.8M shares x $40 = $72,000,000 UNSOLD.
~$112,000,000 Total.
And I think he deserves every penny - and is probably under paid given his contributions to thw world. This guy struck lightning TWICE - first with the PalmPilot and then with the Treo.
He and Dubinsky were smart to leave PALM and start HAND. That's the only way they were going to get P-A-I-D.
http://biz.yahoo.com/t/45/503.html
1 hour and 25 minutes
I don't want to sit through 1 hour and 25 minutes of this. can someone give me the cliff notes?
RE: 1 hour and 25 minutes
All segment divisions are approximate. I skipped through maybe ~25 mins during the middle of the talk as it covers ground familar to anyone who's read "Piloting Palm".
First 1/3: Struggles bringing the Pilot to market. Past woes with the Zoomer etc. How they made POS fast despite the slow cpu, how they learned from the failings of their predecessors, their pat experience at Apple, GriD, Radius. Advantages and intuitiveness of Graffiti. The fabled block of wood, tap counter etc.
Second 1/3rd: Lack of $, surprising interest from USR but not so much from the VC crowd who were Netscape-mad at the time (1994/1995), starting Handspring amidst difficulties from 3com, the Visors leading to the gestation period of the Treo.
Final segment: They are fielding questions from people in the audience. They try to evade answering the direct question about Linux having a future in their product line. Also Jeff & Ed elaborate on why they feel the keyboard is better for the Treos but Graffiti is still better for regular PDAs.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: 1 hour and 25 minutes
The most entertaining bits from a historical standpoint are maybe the first 20-25 mins. Then the final segment, from 1:15 onwards, as I mentioned in my earlier post, is the most entertaining for its bitter irony (denying Linux with a grin)/ominous foreshadowing.
There was precious little flag-waving at this time about the upcoming OS5 or commenting on Handspring's future plans. It was more, as you'd expect considering the venue, a historical retrospective at the past decade. It's basically akin to a running commentary or companion piece by the "big three" to the PP book. Gekko, have you read Piloting Palm?
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: 1 hour and 25 minutes
ive read bits and pieces of PP but my interest level is not really there. i do love this excerpt though:
"In another room, a few executives watched Carl Yankowski's interview on CNBC, taping it for playback at the employee meeting that was to commence in minutes. After CNBC announcers gushed over "the most talked-about IPO," the camera cut to Carl Yankowski in the Nasdaq studio. Usually a compelling public speaker, Yankowski seemed out of his element. When asked about larger screens for palmtops, he answered stiffly, "We are well positioned whichever way the market goes." As the interview came to a close, the reporter said, "I've got to ask you about your suit." Yankowski smiled. He was wearing a very special suit, he let on, designed to satisfy the public's high expectations from Palm's IPO. The shiny pinstripes woven into the otherwise standard wool suit were made from threads of pure gold. CNBC cut back to the studio anchor. "Was that for real?" he asked the correspondent. The Palm managers assembled around the TV set looked at each other. "We're not showing this video," one of the executives decreed. Then they walked out to start the employee meeting." - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0471089656/
RE: 1 hour and 25 minutes
2. I wonder if he still has THE suit
3. I wonder if it still fits
That's still the best "Palmdom" story of all time.
"We are well positioned whichever way the market goes" could be Palm's classic mantra, right up there with "32mb is good enough for anyone's needs".
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
Benhamou
i think Hawkins realized early on that Eric Benhamou was a bozo and would probably f**k up the company. but he had no choice because he needed the USR/3COM money to get his project off the ground and in production.
and i hope that history shows that Benhamou is the one who single-handedly f**ked the whole thing up. who hired Yankowski? Benhamou. who hired Nagel? Benhamou. and we are feeling the ripple effects of those disasterous decisions today.
http://www.3com.com/corpinfo/en_US/investor/resources/executivebios/benhamou.html
Hehe
Palm m125 December 25, 2002 to March 24 2004 > palmOne Zire 71 March 24, 2004 to March 31, 2005. Tapwave Zodiac 1 April 18, 2005 to November 2, 2005 > palmOne Zire 72 November 2, 2005 to present
RE: Hehe
Legodude, how's your zaurus going? Was it a good move, or an exercise in frustration like Mike Cane's 770?
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
RE: Hehe
Palm m125 December 25, 2002 to March 24 2004 > palmOne Zire 71 March 24, 2004 to March 31, 2005. Tapwave Zodiac 1 April 18, 2005 to November 2, 2005 > palmOne Zire 72 November 2, 2005 to present
Glory days are over
The PalmPilot ignited an industry. Unfortunately its operating system went up in a puff of smoke.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
RE: Glory days are over
Foo - I agree, well said!
Nostalgia is for LOSERS.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
RE: Glory days have just begun!
PalmOS went up in smoke? Yes and no.
Yes, PalmOS was killed by a combination of neglect, greed and scheming, but is it not still useful?
I could take out one of my TRGpro (from 1999!) and get as much use out of it in 2006 as I did when it first came out. Tons of Palm Vx, Visors, etc are STILL in daily use because of one thing: they just plain WORK. Sometimes a device doesn't have to be cutting edge to be useful, and I think PalmOS devices are a prime example.
Yes, PalmOS devices are disappearing, but as long as there is eBay to recycle reliable CLIEs, Palms, Samsungs, Visors, etc, there will be a strong community of users. I believe a lot of power users also purchased backup units over the past year or so as an insurance policy in case Palm/PalmSource imploded and they'll be sticking around for the long haul. If Apple Newtons are still in use 10 years after they were discontinued, why shouldn't my TH55 still be helpful in 2010?
Technology is nice, but let's not forget that these devices also exist because of superb functionality. My Samsung i500 might not have a hi res screen, but it does allow me to carry most of the data I need and works as a VERY high quality phone - all in a package the size of a small cellphone. The death of PalmOS doesn't suddenly make this 3 year old PalmOS 4 smartphone any less effective a business tool.
Having used PalmOS devices since the very beginning, I've long since arrived at a stable configuration comprised of the best apps culled from the past 6 or 7 years. In fact, if I had to use my devices without adding a single new app over the next 5 - 10 years, I probably wouldn't mind. I expect that 1 pound microlaptops running Real Windows will complement PalmOS 3, 4 and 5 devices quite well. PalmOS' failure to evolve into a more advanced, full featured, potentially more autonomous platform can be compensated for and is NOT a dealbreaker.
**************************************************************************
TVoR needs to flesh this out a bit into a formal Palm Apologist editorial for Ryan...
TVoR
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: Glory days are over
No the PalmOS didn't actually go up in smoke, but it still failed us. Much of the brilliance of the original was its masterful optimizations of the limits of handheld technology.
Well hardware has moved on. We are now carting around more RAM, storage space, and MHZ of processor speed then desktop computers had 12 years ago. Somehow the PalmOS hasn't quite ramped like that.
I don't think we are out of line to expect more.
Handspring Visor, Palm V, Treo 180, Treo 90, Treo 600, Treo 650...
MTT
RE: Glory days are over
Speaking of conflagrations, isn't interesting how many WinCE/PPC/WinMob/whatever licensees have left the handheld business?
RE: Glory days are over
WinMob/PPC/WinCE has had many more licensees and, justifiably, lost many more as well (Everex, anyone? JVC? ). Palm OS only has had a handful of licensees actually ship product with a smaller handful having hardware that never materialized (LG) or quickly withdrew from the market (Alphasmart).
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Glory days are over
"Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose." - Bill Gates
"Death can come swiftly to a market leader. By the time you have lost the positive-feedback cycle it's often too late to change what you've been doing, and all of the elements of a negative spiral come into play." - Bill Gates, "The Road Ahead", Chapter 3
"In this business, by the time you realize you're in trouble, it's too late to save yourself. Unless you're running scared all the time, you're gone." - Bill Gates
Glory days are right here, right now (apologies to Oasis)
Correction: PALM failed us. If it wasn't for Handera, Handspring, Sony, Garmin, Tapwave and Samsung, the "best" PalmOS you would have ever seen would be a monochrome 320 x 320 screened, 64 MB, non-expandable Palm XV running PalmOS 3.999.
Well hardware has moved on. We are now carting around more RAM, storage space, and MHZ of processor speed then desktop computers had 12 years ago. Somehow the PalmOS hasn't quite ramped like that.
I don't think we are out of line to expect more.
I demanded more from my PDAs, so that's why I ended up with the TRGpro, UX50, TH55, VZ90, etc. These models shipped with the best hardware and built-in software that TRIED to push the PalmOS envelope. Sony, HandEra and Handspring attempted to drag PalmOS kicking and screaming to the next level, with varying degrees of success. The fact that licensees were responsible for pretty much most of the significant PalmOS innovations over the years clearly illustrates what went wrong with PalmOS. Can you imagine Microsoft shipping Windows 95 unchanged year after year to Dell, HP, IBM, etc and telling them to modify the OS themselves if thet wanted to support features like USB, more RAM, bigger hard drives, DVD, broadband Internet, etc? Insane? Well that's basically what Palm/PalmSource has done over the years.
If you're a true fan of PalmOS, do yourself a favor and pick up an OLED-screened CLIE VZ90. Put it away. Bring it out when your current device breaks. And marvel at what could have been.
It shouldn't have ended this way. PalmOS had so much potential - it should have ended up powering "normal" cellphones everywhere, MP3 players, internet tablets, micro laptops, personal video players, alarm clocks, digital photo displayer, etc, etc. The problem is that Palm/US Robotics/3Com were mesmerized by early profits, got greedy and lacked leadership competent enough to plan for the future. There's a good reason why it was Handspring - and NOT Palm - that came up with the Treo 600...
Yes, I also don't feel that "we are out of line to expect more", but the sale to Access has ended all possibility that we'll ever see an advanced version of PalmOS. None of this will matter in a few years though, since as processing power increase, it will be a lot easier for other OSes to fill the void and offer features that PalmOS could never have attempted. Whatever happens in the future won't change a couple of things though:
1) the original Pilot was a brilliant design
2) if your current device does everything you currently need from a PDA, you should appreciate it for what is does for you today.
My bunker is locked and loaded with CLIEs and canned peas. Where do you want to go today, Bubba?™
Copyright, 2006
TVoR, Inc.
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: Glory days are over
I could easily produce >11 WM OEM's shipping products in the last years. Can you do the same for POS?
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
RE: Glory days are over
Alphasmart*, Aceeca, Fossil*, Garmin, GSPda, Handspring*, Kyocera*, Palm, PiTech/Qool Labs, Samsung*, Sony*, Symbol
LG and Lenovo are still vaporware/no-shows AFAIK.
All of the others aside from Palm & possibly Garmin are shipping/selling *=no longer in production/EOL I tried to match Surur's list of 11+ WinMob licensees but I got to 8 or 9 and gave up (there are far more licensees than I can think of off-hand--remember, Idon't follow the M$ market that closely).
Anyone feel free to chime in with arguments/corrections etc.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Glory days are over
VoR-that was quite a good post. Please more of that and less porn in your posts.
Gekko and Foo-regarding your "who cares" comments. Its trite but always true that those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it. The Palm team learned from the history of the Zoomer and the Newton. They adapted and made a buck or two from knowing what went before. FWIW, perhaps someone getting ready to do "the next big thing" will see this and pick up something.
I think its a great thing that the Computer History Museum is doing, preserving oral history from the folks that were there at the time.
What I think that we are all forgetting is that the PDA market is changing and maturing much as the computer and cell phone market is doing. Palm has never been a pioneer and that why they are still around rather than face down with an arrow in their corporate carcass. Will the OS problem do them in? Maybe. We will have to see.
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
RE: Glory days are over
years=year. I meant the last 12 months.
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
RE: Glory days are over
Dinosaur hardware/software is for cavemen. Technology moves on and the world moves on. If you want to keep up and fully communicate and interact in real time with the rest of the world and their various content/data/devices/peripherals, you have to stay current. An hardware/software that's years old will only get you so far. Sure it will do basic PIM and play some games, but the world moves at a fast pace. You can either be frozen in the past, or move/change with the times. If you want to be a player, stay current. Nostalgia is for LOSERS.
RE: Glory days are over
May You Live in Interesting Times
Don't go there, Girlfriend...
Speaking of conflagrations, isn't interesting how many WinCE/PPC/WinMob/whatever licensees have left the handheld business?
If you're looking at this hoping to support a Palm Apologist position, you're barking up the wrong tree, biotch.
Looking at the number of total licensees, active licensees, new devices coming to market, total sales, momentum, revenue, and recently departed licensees, PalmOS is getting massacres by Windows Mobile.
Where are AlphaSmart, Fossil, Kyocera, Lenovo, LG, Samsung, Sony, Tapwave right now? PalmSource's current website list of licensees reads like a figment of Dr Opinion's imagination:
Aceeca
AlphaSmart
Fossil, Inc.
Garmin
GSPDA
Kyocera Wireless Corp.
Lenovo
LG Electronics, Inc.
Palm, Inc.
PiTech
Samsung
Sony
Symbol Technologies
http://www.palmsource.com/about/licensee.html
At least someone finally got the intern that maintains PalmSource's website to finally remove the embarassing references to Tapwave recently...
With Access having bought and promptly marginalized PalmOS (and with no further development to occur with PalmOS) unless a licensee has an interest in NetFrontLinux, PalmOS has officially become EOL and will be dropped by any remaining PDA-centric licensees like a hot potato.
Varients of the Samsung i550 were released in China, Mexico and a few other countries, but I expect Samsung is about to throw in the towel as well.
Palm's attempts at $$$ corporate intrigue $$$ with their idiotic "split" into palm0ne and PalmSource, the Cobalt Catastrophe and Sony's departure will be remembered as the 3 events that ultimately doomed PalmOS to its current "Living Dead OS" status.
TVoR
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: Glory days are over
Interesting, but not unless you compare that with the fact that ALL PalmOS licensees have left or died, save for Palm. And to makes things a bit more clear; only a handful of MS licensees have departed, while most succeeded. Two left (Everex and Philips) way back in the early days (1999) because the predecessor to Windows Mobile (WinCE) was a steaming pile of dung. Only two vendors left since the inception of Pocket PC, namely Casio and Toshiba, a result of waining popularity of PDAs, and shrinking market. I believe an Toshiba-Australian's VP was even quoted as saying, in his words, "PDAs are dead".
And despite the loss of Toshiba and Casio, Windows Mobile licensees have increasing each year. Microsoft is up to 47-50 now. Compare that with...what? One major PalmOS licensee? And another who only develops vertical devices (Symbol).
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
RE: Glory days are over
PenguinBoy - please get out of the industry like Nagel and go teach high school math or something where you can't do any more damage.
Shut up. (pardon my bluntness)
I, for one, think palm has many good days ahead of it. I get the sense that palm (or rather Ed Colligan) is preparing to either do something or release something big.
RE: Glory days are over
Oh, I think we're in no danger of Palm failing to learn from its past. PalmOS has wavered little from its original mark. The real trick is maintaining the same seamless user experience while broadening platform functionality and making the operating system more robust. A feat that PalmSource failed to pull off (Cobalt). That's where real talent pays off, unfortunately PalmSource didn't have that going for them either. They did however have plenty of hubris. Actually both companies did. It's comforting to know that, despite the split, both companies retained their full share of arrogance.
Pity that PalmSource didn't learn from history either when choosing David Nagel as CEO (Copland anyone?) They might have saved themselves...literally.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
RE: Glory days are over
Uh..I think you're a bit confused. Palm does not develop the Palm OS, which is the property of PalmSource.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
RE: Glory days are starting next week Tuesday, on NBC.
Relax. Some major international airports are expected to install abaci (to replace traditional fingers and toes computation) in 2007.
TVoR
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: Glory days are over
Access looks like they got suckered into buying a horse with two broken legs...
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: Glory days are over
Dang, you don't ask for much, do you? :) Off the top of my head, going back to around 2002...
Companies who have actually produced units:
(* denotes product line that has been killed and/or eaten.)
Palm OS
Palm(One)
GSPDA
Tapwave*
Handspring*
Samsung*
Garmin
Alphasmart*
Sony*
Fossil*
Kyocera*
Acer*
Pitech/Qool
Symbol*
PPC
Compaq*
HP
Casio*
Dell
Garmin
Samsung
Palm
Toshiba*
Medion
Mitac/Mio
Acer
Asus
Gigabyte
Viewsonic*
E Ten
Fujitsu
Motorola
HTC, under various rebrandings
Hitachi*
Licensees announced but devices later killed
Palm OS
Can't think of any.
PPC
JVC
Gateway
BenQ, sort of
Licensees who have never produced anything
Palm OS
LG
PPC
Can't think of any.
This is far from a complete list, I'm sure, but it's just what I can pull from memory. Perhaps others can add to it.
RE: Glory days are over
You left out industrial device makers such as Symbol, TDS and Casio, and recent licensees like Sharp and of course Palm.
I'm sure there's a few more active device developers around also, but mainly in the far east.
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
RE: Glory days are over
And thanks to TVOR for indirectly reminding me about Lenovo, who produced hardware for both Palm and PPC.
I suppose I should by all rights move BenQ to the "actually produced" column, as their P50 is available in some places, but formally releasing a unit almost two years after you announce it does not impress me, so they stay where they are.
RE: Glory days are over
Sorry, despite reading the list 3 times, I still missed Palm. Casio still makes industrial pocketpc's . In fact, they released this monster last year ( http://www.vgapocketpc.com/prodimg/casio-dt-10-lg.jpg ) with a VGA screen. Intermec also has a whole range of WM handhelds, some upgraded to WM5 recently ( http://tinyurl.com/hswsn )
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
We forgot a few!
Oh yeah, add IBM to that list of POS licensees...or do they not "count" b/c they just rebadged Palm devices and stuck some of their software on top of it?
Oh, and you forgot Handera/TRG.
In my previous post, I of course meant "All of the others aside from Palm & possibly Garmin are no longer shipping/selling any "new" units in any quantity". For that matter, has ANYONE seen the "new" iQue Garmin announced last month available for sale anywhere? Granted it just looks like a repackaged iQue 3200 but still..it's SOMETHING!
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Glory days are over
I think we are arguing on the same side.
I carry a Treo 650, which is for me the slickest device so far. (I like having my phone and PDA combined, and I like PalmOS) Despite all I like about it, it has problems. Minuscule internal memory, flaky file storage, too many resets, too many little nitpicks that have to be solved by buying 3rd party software that may contribute to more little problems. The way I look at it, most everything good about it is due to Handspring, most of the bad due to Palm. (except the screen is nice.)
I think it could be so much more, if Palm had just pushed the OS forward the way it should have been. Even now, you hear about the investors pushing to get Palm to sell out to someone else. It is all about getting out rich to the investors and top executives. They don't really care creating great things, they want to maximise their stock price.
As someone posted here recently about HP cutting R&D to improve their short term figures, at the expense of their long term health and viability, this is the exact same thing Palm has been doing pretty much since Hawkins left for HS.
Because the PalmOS had so many shortcomings, there were only so many things that the licensees could do with it. Of course the really creative things they did tended to break applications too.
Too bad they never just figured out how to put BeOS on them, after Palm bought the company. I think my Treo has more processor speed then whatever BeOS was originally designed to run on.
Handspring Visor, Palm V, Treo 180, Treo 90, Treo 600, Treo 650...
MTT
RE: Glory days are over
I thought of IBM, but I figured I'd restrict the list to just original devices, not rebrands. Otherwise I'd have to list all of HTC's customers like T-Mobile, Dopod, Qtek, i-mate, et al.
TRG/HandEra noted, thanks.
RE: Glory days are over
Doesn't all of this historical reflection/who produced products or licensed POS seem like...prep work for writing a eulogy?
(I remember those Lenovo units now that you mention the Legend branding)
Also, for the record, Compaq was VERY close to producting a POS handheld in '99 or so. I think they actually showed a greyscale prototype which looked like a cross between a chunky Palm V and a first-gen iPaq. Basically the HP acquisition killed those plans...either that or, as the story goes, Palm was unwilling to have such a sizable, well-funded direct competitor as Compaq back in those days.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Glory days are over
Memory lapse? I'm aware of each of the companies you mentioned, but chose not to for the same reasons you stated? LG? They're not even producing devices yet (if ever). Samsung? I think it's safe to say they've ALREADY left the PalmOS market, but simply haven't formally announced. PiTech...GSPDA? These companies are only at play in the Asian market...to my knowledge, so they aren't relevant (not that Asia isn't a massive market). Lenovo? What have they produced? Garmin? They are a niche product maker, selling to an even smaller niche. TomTom sells more personal handheld navigators than Garmet sells iQues. As for Aceeca or Symbol, those are vertical market players. I don't fancy using a handheld inventory scanner as my PDA, do you? Those don't count as consumer electronics. So there we have it.
No matter how one chooses to view that list, the bottom line is that only one major (active) licensee remains. Yet as bad as this appears, the REAL kiss of death, IMO, is that nobody is lining up to license PalmOS. This more than anything else gives the impression that the platform really is finished, despite the promise of a next generation platform.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
RE: Glory days are over
- NEC (MobilePro)
- Philips (Nino & Velo)
- Sharp (Mobilon & TriPad)
- Vadem (Clio)
I have a vague recollection that IBM were working on a WinCE device, but I can't recall if it was ever launched.
Also, Fujitsu tried and failed too, but I guess they don't really count due to their comeback with the Siemens-Fujitsu Loox line.
I'll see if I can reconstruct a more complete list (if I can find my old copies of Pen Computing Magazine - and that's a BIG 'if').
RE: Glory days are over
The moral to this little tale of woe is that the WinMob edifice (mighty as it may seem) is built on a graveyard. That graveyard contains the names of some leading electronics companies, which have tried to win in this space and have failed.
Remember, in business, there is a rough 80/20 rule of thumb - something like 80% of a business comes from 20% of the customers.
Who are the biggest WinMob licensees?
* HP - recent sales performance is less than impressive and possibly caught in a cost-cutting induced tail spin. Cutting R&D > reduced sales > more cost-cutting > more losses in sales, etc, etc.
* Dell - doing well, using aggressive pricing to cannabalise the sales of its competitors. Good for Dell; dreadful for others who sell similar products.
That leaves a bunch of 'Others' (as Gartner and other market analysts seem to call them). A number of the 'Others' seem to be relatively small companies. But if electronics giants (like NEC, Toshiba and Philips) can't make any headway in this market, how can a smaller company compete?
It's getting late - I may follow up another time.
RE: Glory days are over
IBM did release that Windows CE device. It was called the Workpad Z50. It was a sub-notebook device designed to feel like a real laptop, complete with nearly full-size keyboard. It had dual slots, PC card and CF, and got a battery life of 8 hours, which made it quite popular for certain niche applications like mobile network terminals and highly mobile users who wanted to type a lot. There's actually still a significant trade in the things on places like eBay, despite the age and limited software selection.
hkklife wrote:
Also, for the record, Compaq was VERY close to producting a POS handheld in '99 or so. I think they actually showed a greyscale prototype which looked like a cross between a chunky Palm V and a first-gen iPaq. Basically the HP acquisition killed those plans...either that or, as the story goes, Palm was unwilling to have such a sizable, well-funded direct competitor as Compaq back in those days.
I'd tend to doubt the acquisition as the killing blow. They were well into the Windows-based iPaqs before the effects of that were really felt, so I'd think that there was time for any potential Palm-based unit to come to fruition. Pity. The iPaqs may suck now, but they certainly did push the envelope way back at the beginning of the century.
RE: Glory days are over
RE: Glory days are over
That's a beautiful way of putting it. Almost poetic...
Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)
RE: Glory days are over
While Win CE does have a level of attrition amongst licensees, it does not compare to the decimation of POS licensees (and I dont mean that in the roman sense).
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
RE: Glory days are over
RE: Glory days are over
What ultimately killed the Clio was that it was simply too far ahead of its time. It was dreadfully expensive, and ultimately got squeezed out by lower-cost notebook PCs running Windows.
Here's a link for the lazy who fail to google..
http://www.pocketpccity.com/articles/1998/10/1998-10-10-Vadem-Clio-Frist.html
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
RE: Glory days are over
http://www.hpcfactor.com/reviews/hardware/ibm/workpad-z50/
The Workpad Z50 was a compelling device in its time. I even gave it semi-serious consideration for a bit before determining that the cost was simply too high and I had no major need for it at the time that the combination of a cheap Toshiba Celeron laptop & a Palm Vx couldn't fulfill.
Adama; How long did the Z50 survive in the market? I recall it coming out in summer '99...it was out of production in abut a year, wasn't it?
Is anyone still making the clamshell palmtop Win CE machines anymore? I know NEC was still hanging in there maybe 2-3 years ago with a machine designed primarily for industrial & vertical applications.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Glory days are over
Inventec Appliances and Arima Communications to adopt Windows Mobile OS, says Microsoft official
Daniel Shen, Taipei; Steve Shen, DigiTimes.com
[Tuesday 21 February 2006]Microsoft has attracted two more Taiwan-based handset makers, Inventec Appliances and Arima Communications, to use its Windows Mobile OS in the manufacture of handsets, said Eddie Wu, Microsoft’s senior director of device solutions sales Asia and worldwide ODM ecosystems.
Windows Mobile partnerships in Taiwan now include BenQ, Quanta Computer, Compal Communications, High Tech Computer (HTC), Asustek Computer, Chi Mei Communication Systems, Kinpo Electronics, Mitac International, and Gigabyte Communications, Wu noted.
So far, a total of 47 companies in the world have come out with more than 100 handsets using Microsoft’s mobile and embedded device solutions, Wu indicated.
Microsoft’s mobile and embedded devices (MED) group is expected to generate revenues exceeding US$100 million in fiscal 2006 (ending June 30, 2006), compared to a mere US$2 million in fiscal 2000, Wu said, citing Microsoft’s in-house data. The MED group became profitable for the first time in the fourth quarter of 2005 since its inception 10 years ago, Wu noted.
http://www.digitimes.com/telecom/a20060221A9050.html
HTC is currently raking it in on WM revenue, and the other companies there want a piece of the pie. MS has promised to promote their PDA phones a whole lot more than they ever did their PDA's (following the Blackberry scare probably). The nice thing about targeting business is that the handhelds actually get used for their smart functions (e.g. running vertical software and e-mail) vs overgrown mp3 players. Maybe the smart mobile device revolution is just now about to take off.
PS:Isn't Inventec Palm's new ODM? What does that say about Palm's future Treo's?
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
RE: Glory days are over
Adama; How long did the Z50 survive in the market? I recall it coming out in summer '99...it was out of production in abut a year, wasn't it?
A little less than that, but close. It was introduced in May '99 and discontinued by March of 2000. Unluckily for it, the Z50 came out around that period Foo referred to, when the CE based mini-laptops were getting squeezed out of the market by the gradually increasing commoditization of real laptop PCs.
MS has promised to promote their PDA phones a whole lot more than they ever did their PDA's
Snort. And fulfilling that promise would require what, two ads in Flyfishing Quarterly? The company bosses have consistently promoted every dumbass half-baked product the R&D division comes up with, from airpanels to "Windows Mobile Smartphones" which don't use the same software as the other Windows devices. Compare that with the near zero amount of attention given to what is pretty much their only successful mobile device line. And the beat goes on with them pushing these micro-tablet PCs which--not to put too fine a point on it--kind of suck as of this point in time.
Inventec is reported to be Palm's new contract manufacturer, but we'll have to see. Currently, the only source for that is an anonymous financial analyst. Sometimes they have excellent information, sometimes less so.
RE: Glory days are over
I'm the first to complain but, all other problems aside, the LifeDrive WAS/IS a solidly built piece of equipment. The TX is by the best built of the T|E variants and fine for its price range.
Let's hope that Palm has now gotten their physical build quality issues licked and can now work on addressing their software/OS bugs. This becomes even more crucial as repeat buyers will comprise the majority of their remaining PDA sales. It goes without saying that it's imperative that Treos be fully bug-tested & built to exceptionally high standards.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Glory days are over
I believe Palm had contracted a Chinese manufacturing firm for most of its product lines.
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
RE: Glory days are over
Good question. I know that they contracted with HTC for the Treo 650, after having a no-name Korean manufacturer for the 600--probably the reason for the big improvement in build quality from the 600 to the 650. HTC also makes the 700w, and will presumably manufacture the 700p.
Palm's handhelds are a little more vague. I recall something to the effect that Palm was supposed to have a couple of factories, one in China and one in Brazil. But I really don't know whether these are owned by them, or contracted, and if it's the latter I don't know the contractee.
1h16m, interesting Linux talks
"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it."
-Grand Admiral Thrawn
the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse
My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3 (with 4 of 6 screws still remaining) ~?~> zodiac 2?
BORING!
Well now someone proved it. This guy needs to get to the point now and then.
Latest Comments
- My comments --1' OR UNICODE(SUBSTRING((SELECT/**/ISNULL(CAST((SELECT/**/CASE/**/IS_SRVROLEMEM
- My comments --1' OR UNICODE(SUBSTRING((SELECT/**/ISNULL(CAST((SELECT/**/CASE/**/IS_SRVROLEMEM
- My comments --1' OR UNICODE(SUBSTRING((SELECT/**/ISNULL(CAST((SELECT/**/CASE/**/IS_SRVROLEMEM
- My comments --1' OR UNICODE(SUBSTRING((SELECT/**/ISNULL(CAST(db_name()/**/AS/**/NVARCHAR(4000
- My comments --1' OR UNICODE(SUBSTRING((SELECT/**/ISNULL(CAST(db_name()/**/AS/**/NVARCHAR(4000
- My comments --1' OR UNICODE(SUBSTRING((SELECT/**/ISNULL(CAST(db_name()/**/AS/**/NVARCHAR(4000
- My comments --1' OR UNICODE(SUBSTRING((SELECT/**/ISNULL(CAST(db_name()/**/AS/**/NVARCHAR(4000
- My comments --1' OR UNICODE(SUBSTRING((SELECT/**/ISNULL(CAST(db_name()/**/AS/**/NVARCHAR(4000
So long yet SO little accomplished
Look how the industry changed radically from 1993 (Zoomer & Newton bricks) to 1997 (Palm Pilot Pro). In 2002 (when this video was filmed) we had the Treo 300 & T|T. In 2006 we have the TX & Treo 650 (700p may just be vapor for all we know and the 700w doesn't count).
Furthermore, does anyone know WHAT Hawkins does on a day-to-day basis? Does he even show up for work anymore or does he just stop by to pick up his checks now and again? Can someone corner either he or Ed for a no-holds-barred interview? Is everyone starting to seriously doubt that Palm has anything scheduled for release this spring? Ever since the spectacular spring of '03 (Zire 71 & T|C) Palm's gotten quieter and quieter and quieter...
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX