Comments on: IDC: Handheld Sales Dropped By 28.5% In 2006

IDC's latest Worldwide Handheld QView report is in and the numbers aren't good for PDAs. Despite some seasonal growth in Q4 '06, overall sales year-on-year still declined. In total, 5.5 million handhelds were sold in 2006, down 28.5% from 7.6 million sold in '05. Palm is still the market leader with a clear majority of sales, but year-on-year dropped almost 43% - most likely due to the fact the company didn't release any new handhelds in '06.
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PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO

Gekko @ 2/8/2007 9:33:30 PM # Q

Sorry, kids. It's over.



RE: PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO
Foo Fighter @ 2/8/2007 10:19:30 PM # Q
It's been over. PDAs are the toaster oven segment of the mobile device market; a long forgotten device that still some utility, yet nobody uses anymore.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com
RE: PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO
787B @ 2/9/2007 8:47:23 AM # Q
5.5 Million units is "over"? What are you smoking? It took years for the PDA market to even accumulate that many *total* sales.

There's no question the market is pretty-well saturated, and phones with PDA functionality are replacing stand-alone PDA's (Kyo 6035 replaced my PIII years ago), but we are a long way from "over".

- 787B
Pilot 1000 -> Palm III -> Kyocera 6035 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 680

What's a PDA?
cervezas @ 2/9/2007 11:52:11 AM # Q
If my Handspring Visor was a PDA, then so is the iPhone. Large screen, predominantly touchscreen interface, wide-area networking including voice (but activated from the screen rather than a keypad), software focus on stuff that works well with a bigger screen. Are the Nokia Internet tablets PDAs? What about GPS navigation devices that happen to run Palm OS or Windows Mobile? What about the handheld ebook readers that are starting to proliferate?

When people hear "PDA" they think "organizer" and that category is certainly being cannibalized by the smartphone segment. But there are plenty of new devices that are PDA-like but are not focused on personal information management and are gaining, not losing prominence in the market. PDAs don't seem to be going away so much as being reinvented in numerous different ways. IDS, Garnet, Canalys don't seem to be able to figure out a way to capture this splintering of the categories, instead trying to apply device categories from five years ago. Studies that don't come to grips with the new market segmentation will increasingly obscure what's happening instead of revealing it.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO
Gekko @ 2/9/2007 12:34:49 PM # Q

Obfuscation is not a virtue, Beersie.

1. PDAs are dead.
2. Smartphones are the future.


RE: PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO
cervezas @ 2/9/2007 12:59:44 PM # Q
Obfuscation is not a virtue

Exactly the point I was trying to make! ;-) But sorry if you didn't get it.

Smartphones are the future, not disconnected PDAs, as you say. So are media players, ebook readers, Internet tablets/messaging devices, GPS receivers, tablet-style phones and all the other categories that PDA's have evolved into. When the Model T came out it was in a category of its own: "horseless carriage". Sure people don't buy horseless carriages any more. Instead they buy compact sedans, sports cars, SUV's, pickup trucks, and RVs. Cars have broken up into special-purpose categories, and mobile devices are doing the same.

PDAs are horseless carriages. That they are going away is hardly a concern. The problem that is a concern to folks on this site is that Palm has so far only evolved the horseless carriage in one direction (we'll call the Treo a "sedan"). Some would like a "sports car" or an "SUV" or a "motorcycle". (Map those as you please to one of the new device categories I listed above.)

A lot of the interesting device categories that Palm could go into happen to bear a closer physical resemblance to a PDA than a mobile phone: hand-holdable tablet form factor dominated by a large screen. In fact just about everything I can think of this is not a phone (and even some devices that are, like the iPhone) is a handheld tablet of some kind. What I get from the comments here on PIC (and the suggestive fact that the GPS-focused Mio is growing when horseless carriage PDAs are declining) is that Palm is missing an opportunity to move into one of the growing handheld tablet categories.

Some folks don't want to drive their Camry off-road or take it out cruising on the strip. Now do you get the point people have been making here?

Probably not. *sigh*

I tried.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Japanese and Chinese 'dictionaries' ...
Surur @ 2/9/2007 2:25:37 PM # Q

should really be counted also. They kick the pants of most current PDA these days.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

OT
freakout @ 2/9/2007 6:35:54 PM # Q
^^ I was having a thought about that the other day when I was reading that "Hawkins Hacks The Human Brain" (http://tinyurl.com/2thggo) article Gekko posted. If Palm/Hawkins really are working on a bunch of server-side services to be delivered over broadband, then Numenta's language translation stuff could be a killer. That article paints things so rosily, I'm already having visions of a real-life version of Star Trek's Universal Translator. ;)

The concept of 'extelligence' (the sum of all human knowledge, history, cultural experiences, traditions etc) has been a lot easier to grasp since Google made it so easy to sift through the net. I'm very much looking forward to the next bright idea on how to hook into it. Numenta seems promising, even at this early stage, and a 3G/wifi handheld/tablet/whatever that connects to a bank of HTMs could be very, very cool.

(Even if they say the first commerical devices are still 18 months away. A man can dream...)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO
freakout @ 2/9/2007 6:56:51 PM # Q
cervezas:
The problem that is a concern to folks on this site is that Palm has so far only evolved the horseless carriage in one direction (we'll call the Treo a "sedan")

(pout) Can't we call it a Batmobile instead?

RE: PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO
twrock @ 2/9/2007 6:57:06 PM # Q
David, very well put, but my guess is that the answer to your question is "no". I really think there are some who insist on not "getting it". Maybe they having a slow moment, maybe they are are having a slow "lifetime", or maybe they are just trolling.

My biggest hope is that a large screen, "connected PDA" is moments from being released by Palm. If not, then I hope that the iPhone will be a huge success and that if Palm has not finally woken up and put out a "PDA with voice", Apple's success will finally remove their blinders and force them to respond. But once again, for Palm, that may be too late. They need to quit responding and start leading again.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

RE: PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO
Gekko @ 2/9/2007 7:09:47 PM # Q

freakout - they are working on a Bluetooth adapter for your brain where your thoughtwaves will wirelessly beam data and commands to your smartphone and vice-versa. you will be able to dial numbers and access entire databases simply by thought.



RE: PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO
freakout @ 2/9/2007 8:55:06 PM # Q
^^ It wouldn't work for me; I've had a layer of tinfoil surgically inserted between my skull and scalp. Plus the world is full of thoughtless people like that jerk at the video shop who charges late fees even if you're only a minute past 6pm. How could they ever operate such a device?
RE: PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO
Foo Fighter @ 2/9/2007 10:19:25 PM # Q
freakout - they are working on a Bluetooth adapter for your brain where your thoughtwaves will wirelessly beam data and commands to your smartphone and vice-versa. you will be able to dial numbers and access entire databases simply by thought.

Yeah, but you have to think in Russian. Or at least that's how it worked in the movie Firefox. Plus I don't like the idea of having to wear a black flight suit and helmet just to communicate with my phone.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com

RE: PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO
SeldomVisitor @ 2/10/2007 7:20:08 AM # Q
> It wouldn't work for me; I've had a layer of tinfoil surgically
> inserted between my skull and scalp...

-- http://usability.typepad.com/confusability/2004/05/aluminum_foil_d.html

[note - the original afdb site appears dead, at least this morning: http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html ]

> ...Yeah, but you have to think in Russian....

== "...Oh, and the two new other phrases? ``Out of sight, out
== of mind.'' has a venerable history in machine translation.
== It is said that an early attempt to translate this phrase
== to Russian and back returned ``Invisible idiot..."

-- http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~copeland/work/babel.html

RE: PDAs: THE RACE TO ZERO
SeldomVisitor @ 2/10/2007 7:25:59 AM # Q
Pardon, should have added this as a finale:

-- http://www.tashian.com/multibabel/

== "...It takes text and translates it through about eight languages
== before depositing it back into English..."

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It makes sense

drbuzz0 @ 2/8/2007 9:57:46 PM # Q
I assume you mean non-phone pda's. Everybody seems to have a cell phone now, and the services are reasonable enough to make them affordable to most who would buy a handhold anyway.

The combination of a PDA and cell phone into a smartphone is much much greater than the sum of the two parts. When you have a PDA you have a good interface for a full fledged html browser and other net stuff, and when you add cell capabilities, you have an internet connection.

Additionally, if you combine a PIM with a phone, you have your numbers and contacts on a device which you can call or message them directly from.

It only makes sense that the standalone PDA is very near the end of life.

RE: It makes sense
mainsled @ 2/9/2007 4:57:47 AM # Q
I do not understand why most people condemn the PDA as doomed. Perhaps are you speaking from the developer's perspective?

Speaking from a user's perspective, PDA and a separate cheap Bluetooth mobile phone make more sense to me and many other people I reckon. I make about 3 phone calls a day and accept about 3 phone calls a day, mostly from people I already know. So the benefit of contacts shared between PDA and phone is negligible. Time savings are negligible.

Is it possible to beam a contact from a cell phone into Palm TX?

Advantages of a PDA with a separate cell phone:

- A small phone that slips into any pocket makes more sense than a bulky smartphone with a small screen.
- How can anyone navigate a website on a small phone screen?
- How much text of an email can you read on the small screen?
- How can you organize your emails into tens of folders on a small screen?
- If I break or lose my phone I still have the PDA. With integrated solution, if I break or lose it I am disconnected for at least a week.
- With a smartphone/PDA separate, battery life must be much shorter, because a single battery must support all activities.

The problem of smaller screen when comparing PDA and phone is insurmountable no matter how much features you cram into the phone (GPS, EDGE, WIFI...).

As a user I feel really stupid for wanting a PDA when everyone screams "smartphone". Is the "smartphone forever " crowd really just developers and high-tech toy fans? Or is it really normal BFU users who crave the smartphones for good, valid and sane reasons?

RE: It makes sense
pottsme @ 2/9/2007 10:22:42 AM # Q
I tend to agree. What frustrates me is that since I don't have GSM/Cingular phone I've never been able to get my Palm T3 to communicate with my bluetooth-enabled phones for internet connection or dialing from Palm's contacts. The only thing I can do is beam contact info from my T3 to my cell via bluetooth.

I don't understand why Palm can't update their bluetooth funcitonality to work with most bluetooth enabled cell phones. Mine has EVDO, rather than GSM. Does anybody know how to make this work? That would make 2 devices worthwhile.

RE: It makes sense
pottsme @ 2/9/2007 10:22:42 AM # Q
I tend to agree. What frustrates me is that since I don't have GSM/Cingular phone I've never been able to get my Palm T3 to communicate with my bluetooth-enabled phones for internet connection or dialing from Palm's contacts. The only thing I can do is beam contact info from my T3 to my cell via bluetooth.

I don't understand why Palm can't update their bluetooth funcitonality to work with most bluetooth enabled cell phones. Mine has EVDO, rather than GSM. Does anybody know how to make this work? That would make 2 devices worthwhile.

Palm + CDMA Bluetooth DUN connectivity--the REAL (ugly) truth!
hkklife @ 2/9/2007 3:02:37 PM # Q
CDMA connectivity via BT has been a very, very touchy (not to mention ignored) thing over the past several years.

I've been a Verizon customer for nearly a decade so I cannot speak for Sprint & Alltel other than what I've read about online (in short, Alltel users have had some luck but Sprint & VZW handsets are nigh useless for Palm OS compatibility)

First, some history:

Verizon's first BT handset was the Motorola V710, introduced in mid 2004. I had two of these and they were pretty solid handsets, albeit rather flimsily built. I used the V710 for *FLAWLESS* BT DUN with my T3, T5, and Zodiac 2.

Upon "upgrading" to the LifeDrive in 2005, BT DUN ceased to function. The phone hadn't changed but something in FrankenGarnet had changed. This also goes for the Palm TX. So, in essence, the E2, T5, T3, T2, Zire 72 etc. from Palm all work fine for BT DUN on CDMA phones that have the proper DUN profile support. Now, for a while after the V710 Verizon WAS crippling their handsets by disabling the DUN profile but they've been much better having mostly full BT profiles on their new handsets released in the pat 6-12 months. Verizon USED to be at fault but NOW the blame falls squarely on Palm's shoulders.

*Palm ONLY wants to sell Treos and will use EVERY trick in the book to sell as MANY Treos as possible in the current quarter*. Everything else--ROM updates, R&D, maintaining customers' loyalty--is secondary to moving Treos.

Since the V710 I've had a Verizon V3c, V3m and now a KRZR K1m. None of them work with my TX for BT DUN. They've worked fine with both of my laptops for BT DUN. I can still send photos & contacts FROM my K1m to my TX (but not vice versa-I have no idea why). Using the +Mode=2 string I can dial contact on the phone from the TX via BT.

In fact, the packaging of the TX specifically states that a GSM phone + data plan are required for DUN usage. Nowhere does Palm mention CDMA connectivity.

In short, Palm intentionally disabled CDMA BT connectivity on their last two PDAs (LifeDrive & TX) to try and force their remaining loyal POS users to purchase Treos. It worked for me...but I'm sure as he11 not happy about it, especially given the 700p's pitiful voice performance and plethora of of bugs & quirks.

I think the CDMA crippling has something to do with the authentication process during the handshaking. Now, Alltel users have reported some minor success with their phones (different firmwares than VZW comparable handsets) but the connection still drops after ~1 minute unless you run a PTunes stream in the background to keep the connection alive. I think it might have to do with the fact that Palm OS doesn't support CHAP authentication (or, perhaps, Garnet DID and Palm removed it on the LD & TX) which is required to establish the DUN connection.

If you need further proof of this little conspiract theory, just check palm.com's support site to see the last time Palm updated their lame GSM PhoneLink Update software
http://www.palm.com/us/support/downloads/phonelink.html
June '05!! HOW many cool new GSM handsets have been released worldwide since then? This thing hasn't even been updated in the lifetime of the TX! If that's not proof tht Palm is he11-bent on abandoning traditional PDAs I don't know what is.

Palm is INTENTIONALLY trying to dumb down conventional PDAs to try to enhance the appeal of the Treo's "internet anywhere". With many, many dumbphones approaching the Treo in built-in funcitonality (and wildly surpassing it in voice quality, camera quality, BT performance and build quality), Palm would be wise to embrace the new generation of powerful handsets from Samsung/Moto/LG/Nokia/Sony Ericsson and market their traditional PDAs such as the TX as "mobile phone companions/PMPs/Mobile Managers".


For the record, my grievances listed above rank #2 on the Palm misstep list right behind their abandonment of the far superior Graffiti 1 alphabet.

If anyone has any further light to shed on the issue and/or can offer verifiable evidence to the contrary, by all means please post it here!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Reply to this comment

Points fingers at Palm

AndrewJackson @ 2/9/2007 12:10:08 AM # Q
Though it's true that people are loosing interests in PDAs, Palm is just shooting themselves in the foot with quality control and lack of features. They only want to promote Treos.

Former US President.
Reply to this comment

Palm's own fault

mikecane @ 2/9/2007 10:55:43 AM # Q
They've taken everything for granted.

It's only a matter of time before it's Taps for them, especially since they're betting their total fekkin existence on the Treo (more than half of which isn't even their own OS!).

If they had been in charge of Mother Nature, all life would have died out within a few generations.

Diversify, dammit!

RE: Palm's own fault
Gekko @ 2/9/2007 12:32:50 PM # Q

MikeCon - How's your LifeDrive's resurrection going? Or are you still procrastinating on that project too?



RE: Palm's own fault
hkklife @ 2/9/2007 2:43:34 PM # Q
Palm's idea of a diversified lineup is 320x320 screens on POS models and 240x240 models. Adding to that varied mix are having 1.3mp cameras on a few models but a VGA camera on the other. And let's not forget the choice of colors in the 680 or the fact that the 680 has SD while the similarly sized 750 has miniSD!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Palm's own fault
freakout @ 2/9/2007 6:31:55 PM # Q
STB, STB, STB...
Reply to this comment

Please - At least one more.

Rhauer @ 2/9/2007 12:07:23 PM # Q
I have been pairing my Palm to a AT&T-Cingular-AT&T phone ever since they introduced bluetooth. It's great. I much prefer the advantages of two devices. PLEASE PALM- at least give us one more state of the art, high end, pda that we can get excited about. TX has been great, use wi-fi so much more then I ever thought I would.

Please at least one more. .

Reply to this comment

Prepare for the inevitable

Tuckermaclain @ 2/9/2007 1:27:07 PM # Q
I currently have a Vx, 500, SJ33, Z71, Z72 hanging around that could go into service. I saved RAM images way back to Action Names circa 2000 on my Vx, and copies of all SD cards used on all OS4 & 5 Palms. I could get by in some fashion for at least a decade. I suppose I'll wait to see if there will ever be a new PDA released. If not, as soon as Palm closes the line I'll buy a handful of Txs and some replacement screens for them.

Anybody else have plans for the Apocalypse?

RE: Prepare for the inevitable
Gekko @ 2/9/2007 1:43:08 PM # Q

Out with the old, in with the new. Stop living in the past. Let it go and move on. Stop being so silly.



RE: Prepare for the inevitable
cervezas @ 2/9/2007 5:55:55 PM # Q
Out with the old, in with the new.

What, leaving so soon, Gekko? Your winning personality will be missed be one and all. I'm quite sure of it.

As others have mentioned, I don't think it would take a lot of R&D or design expenditure to get a modest refresh of the PDA line-up out there. Even without any recent releases PDAs still manage to be about a third of Palm's business, and they remain the market leader. They might figure they could keep those still-substantial revenues from sliding steeply without diverting many resources from more cutting edge products.

But here's another thought for you. Suppose that Palm has been working on their own new OS for the last couple of years as seems to many of us to be the case. Where would it be easiest to integrate that first? Devices that don't have telephony or cellular data radios or the pervasive issues of interruptibility that mobile phones create. PDA's (or some tablet-like successor to the PDA) would be the logical first target for a next-generation "Palm OS" to replace "Garnet OS". Also consider: non-phone devices wouldn't suffer from 12-18 months of carrier and FCC testing, another reason that we might see Palm's early OS innovations show up there first.

I'm not necessarily talking "PDAs" mind you. But probably something with a tablet form factor that would still run the old Palm OS applications. Maybe the first STB devices.

Just thinking.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Prepare for the inevitable
Tuckermaclain @ 2/9/2007 6:33:07 PM # Q
I don't want the latest greatest from Microsoft or anyone else. The m500 really is good enough for me to get by on. It holds all my contacts and appointments and a few other programs that make life easier. I find for me that the Vx/500/515 is small enough to fit unobtrusively and it does enough. A super-organizer with a little bit of computing power. That along with a Razr suits me fine. To each his own.

RE: Prepare for the inevitable
Gekko @ 2/9/2007 7:07:36 PM # Q

Beersie - I don't live in fantasyland like you do, i live in reality.



RE: Prepare for the inevitable
cervezas @ 2/9/2007 7:34:41 PM # Q
Heh, is that the reality where you acquire airlines and quote Sun Tzu to Charlie Sheen in the back of your limo or the one where you're a small bug-eyed lizard that sticks to walls? We've all been wondering.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Reply to this comment

Didn't have to be this way...

T_W @ 2/10/2007 6:20:33 PM # Q
The death of the PDA is a self-fulfilling prophecy. No new units in years means declining sales. No new operating system in years just points to the lack of vision.

Amazingly enough, iPods are not dieing and being replaced by music phones. Maybe because the vendor actually continues to improve the product.

There's still a place for a slim, application-oriented device with a modern OS, a big screen, good battery life, good media capabilities and wifi.

Too bad we'll never see it from Palm.

As for Treo's, I have one but the Blackberry Pearl is damn sexier phone.

RE: Didn't have to be this way...
hkklife @ 2/10/2007 6:44:25 PM # Q
If anything, the Mp3 player market is regressing. It was easier to find a HD-based, 30gb or larger player supporting UMS a year or two ago than it is now.

I think everyone other than Creative has pretty much thrown in the towel for $200+ Mp3 players and retreated to either the crummy 1/2/4gb flash based players or gone to unwieldy PMPs.

I mean, Apple has an exclusive on the 80gb mp3 1.8" HD players and there aren't many players other than Cowon and Creative (both with aging players with a fair share of flaws) in the 60gb segment. Now, when we have 32gb+ solid state drives (SSD) in a year or two it'll be a different story. But to find a high-end, high capacity, non0iPod mp3 player right NOW is about as hard as finding a high-end, large screened PDA to purchase.

I basically see the PDA market going in the same direction as the mp3 players/DAPs I mention above. The "tradition" high-end large screneed PDA (many Sony Clies, the T3/T5/TX/LD) is regressing to small screened, lower spec'd smartphones (arguably less useful) on one end and costly/fragile subnotebooks (again, arguably less useful) or tablet PCs on the other.

Again, it didn't HAVE to be this way. Palm would still be wise to inject a few $ into annual refreshes off 2 or 3 $250 or below legacy PDA models to sell at retail (where they enjoy a near monopoly) and to keep the Palm name & branding in the eyes of consumers who don't spend time in cell phone shops.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Reply to this comment

How to start a turnaround.

VampireLestat @ 2/10/2007 5:48:02 PM # Q
- Follow my guidelines on how to design a TX|2.
- OLED is needed. <----------------- EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, WAY UNDERESTIMATED.
- Better soundchip.
- Updated, multitasking OS.
- Put a camera, a mic, a led, vibrating alarm, a cradle, replaceable batt.
- Little foot in back to hold pda up for movie viewing.
- Put dual stereo speakers in front of pda (not under dpad)
- 624 mhz (Core Duo 2 when possible hehe)
- Gamer-friendly dpad (no middle button). Bigger buttons (like on LD).
- Add programmable buttons on side. Scroll wheel.
- Better stylus.
- wifi, bt, and cell radios.

Focus on
- Pristine visual clarity at wide viewing angles.
- PIM
- Music (free high quality (NO DEMOS and BASIC VERSIONS! offer the best possible experience out of the box - this is WHY PEOPLE ARE BUYING THE DEVICE!) ogg, mp3, etc.
- Free radio station streaming.
- Free Video player (create app to easily link to YouTube, Google Video)
- Games.

If companies are not interested in making the above, then I will simply leave my money in the bank. As for the drop in Palm PDA sales, how could we expect anything other? I couldnt buy a new TX because they simply did not make/sell any new devices. We will see a surge in sales in the spring.



RE: How to start a turnaround.
VampireLestat @ 2/10/2007 6:33:34 PM # Q
And PLEASE put a new software keyboard in like WordLogic.com has. This pecking away business is old. All the numbers and letters on the at same time. Word prediction. TextPlus is OK for now but it has an annoying floating word list window (unlike WordLofic).

Palm should makes it own built in WordLogic software. Things like these are basic critical things that make the difference between a user embracing their Palm or very rarely using it (which in turn results in low future sales).

RE: How to start a turnaround.
Gekko @ 2/10/2007 6:50:05 PM # Q

VampireBoy - it's 2007, not 1999. Let it go.



RE: How to start a turnaround.
Foo Fighter @ 2/10/2007 7:04:45 PM # Q
Uh, Vampy...no one would buy a "T|X 2" or any other contrivance based around a dedicated PDA form factor.

I love these delusional "all Palm needs to succeed is go back to the past" spouts. It's over my friend. I have a T|X, HP iPaq rx1955, and Zodiac 2 - all are collecting dust, and all are going on eBay next week. I suggest everyone clean out their closet and dump Palm as well.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com

RE: How to start a turnaround.
sungod @ 2/11/2007 1:27:08 AM # Q
I would.
All thow i am in agreement the “traditional” T|X PDA format is becoming less and less popular there are plenty of people (like me and the vample with bad dress sence) who don't want a convergent product.
I don't want a laptop but I love to reed me emails on the couch.
I want a descent screen to watch videos and preview pic's from my camera when I'm away camping.
I don't want a PDA that can't last a long weekend because I made a couple of calls.
I want to take my phone to the pub and not have to worry about breaking a touch screen worth more than the phone.
What would make my day would be a candy bar phone with a descent camera (think a Sony Cybershot but) with a mem card that can be adapted to SD.
With a basic calender function that can sync with my PDA both through the PC and live through a Bluetooth link.
Pair that with a T|X or its eventual replacement and (as the froggies say) war lar.

on a long enough timeline the survival rate of everyone drops to zero
RE: How to start a turnaround.
Foo Fighter @ 2/11/2007 9:30:51 AM # Q
The problem is that PalmOS is no longer viable for the device you describe, given the environment it competes in today. For $399 you can buy a Nokia N800 internet tablet which offers a far more powerful software platform based on Linux, a higher resolution screen, a REAL WEB BROWSER, and full HTML email. In short; a true tablet sized computer. What do you get with the T|X? A comically obsolete platform, hideously under performing web browser that can't properly render even the simplest website, lousy sync software, poor desktop syncing, etc.

Hell, for $350 or less (with coupons) you can buy a Dell Axim X51v, which sports a full VGA display. Install Opera Mobile and you've got a pretty damn good internet device. Much better than the T|X.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com

RE: How to start a turnaround.
hkklife @ 2/11/2007 8:55:58 PM # Q
Kent;

Do you own an N800? Any hands-on experience one at length? How's Nokia support for Vista? And is there an easy way to gain PIM functionality on the N800? And if so, any way to import data from Palm OS 5.x devices?

I do see (at least for the 680 and 700p) at least ONE advantage for the POS units--SDHC compatibility! Someone at Nokia should be flogged for not having the foresight to make the 2 SDslots on the N800 SDHC complianet. That'd make it an excellent PMP as well!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: How to start a turnaround.
sungod @ 2/12/2007 2:20:38 PM # Q
My Post was not about the T|X, but the T|X form factor after F.F. claimed nobody wanted one.
The only thing on my list that the T|X struggles at is the Internet stuff and I'm not a power user in that area.
Palm's pic viewer and TCPMP cover vids and pics to my satisfaction and the live sync is just a dream.
Getting back to form factor I forgot to mention pocket sized.
Oh and i live in Aus so the Nokia n800 is a no go.

on a long enough timeline the survival rate of everyone drops to zero
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ATTENTION: GEKKO!

hkklife @ 2/11/2007 9:57:54 PM # Q
Bloomberg has a live TV channel here on this new service (looks like a new competitor to MobiTV)
And they fully support Palm OS Treos!

http://www.smartvideo.com/whatison.asp

It's probably as close as you are going to get under POS (at least for the time being)

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

hkk
Gekko @ 2/12/2007 6:38:18 AM # Q

hkk - thanks but -

1. i like free
2. i'm just looking for Bloomberg radio, not TV
3. TV is already available via MobiTV
4. does Kinoma 4.1 (newest update) stream Bloomberg radio yet?

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