Gartner Reports Strong Sales for the Wireless PDA Industry

The latest report from Gartnet states the PDA industry had its strongest first quarter to date. Worldwide personal digital assistant (PDA) shipments totaled 3.4 million units in the first quarter of 2005, a 25 percent increase from the same period last year.

The report places Reasearch In Motion (RIM) as the leader during the quarter. BlackBerry shipments grew 75.6 percent in the first quarter, as the company became the No. 1 ranked vendor. palmOne PDA shipments declined 26.3 percent, and its market share fell to 18 percent, its lowest market share since it entered the market in 1996.

The numbers are somewhat skewed, as Gartner does not include Smartphone's such as the palmOne Treo 650 and BlackBerry 7100, but include wireless PDAs, such as the iPAQ 6315 and Nokia 9300. You can read the full report and market figures here.

"PDAs with integrated wireless local area network (LAN) or cellular capabilities accounted for approximately 55 percent of all PDAs shipped in the first quarter of 2005," said Todd Kort, principal analyst in Gartner's Computing Platforms Worldwide group. "This increase is primarily the result of the growing popularity of wireless e-mail, with users favoring larger displays and QWERTY keyboards that are operated with both hands."

Furthermore according to Gartner, Microsoft has become the No. 1 PDA operating system, as it accounted for 46 percent of worldwide shipments. RIM assumed the second position, as Palm OS slipped to the No. 3 ranking, due to Palm OS shipments declining 38.8 percent. "We expect that palmOne will be adding other operating systems and setting more of its own direction, while PalmSource is redirecting itself toward Linux and smartphones," Mr. Kort said.

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So the Windows Mobile Powered Treo is on the way

EdH @ 5/5/2005 2:55:13 PM # Q
"We expect that palmOne will be adding other operating systems and setting more of its own direction, while PalmSource is redirecting itself toward Linux and smartphones,"

Gimme that Treo Pocket PC. :-)

RE: So the Windows Mobile Powered Treo is on the way
Foo Fighter @ 5/5/2005 3:27:11 PM # Q
It ain't called Pocket PC no mo, yo. It be Windows Mobile from here on out. Word!

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: So the Windows Mobile Powered Treo is on the way
LiveFaith @ 5/5/2005 3:30:34 PM # Q
Wireless PDA:

Did PalmOne never see this coming? Only one unit with built-in WiFi in the past 3 years! Bewildering.

How hard is it to take the same radio and use it across the brand in the other devices? The average person looks at the battle as PPC vs Palm, even tho neither makes hardware. Palm has looked like a joke with Sony weaned out and PalmOne offer substandard hardware vs Dell, HP & Toshiba. To the average person it looks like WinMob is powerful and Palm is weak. Thus the figures and the marketshare.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: So the Windows Mobile Powered Treo is on the way
AdamaDBrown @ 5/5/2005 4:33:55 PM # Q
The OS may be called Windows Mobile, but the devices are still usually referred to as Pocket PCs, as the platform in general is sometimes as well. Think of it as "Palm" rather than "Palm OS Garnet 5.4".

RE: So the Windows Mobile Powered Treo is on the way
ackmondual @ 5/5/2005 9:41:47 PM # Q
QUOTE
Foo Fighter @ 5/5/2005 3:27:11 PM

It ain't called Pocket PC no mo, yo. It be Windows Mobile from here on out. Word!
/QUOTE

Not gonna happen. Not as long as people still call Palm OS devices Palm Pilots and PCs IBM Compatibles. Heck, look on the system requirements of any PC game that came out in the last 10 years or so and they still say "IBM PC or 100% Compatible"

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3[/signature1]

RE: So the Windows Mobile Powered Treo is on the way
drw @ 5/6/2005 1:31:50 AM # Q
And there's a sea of money ripe for the taking if they would just put out some new models.

> Only one unit with built-in WiFi in the past 3 years!

Used to be I'd wince when buying a pda/smartphone cause I knew within 6 months it would be out of date and I'd feel the urge to upgrade. Now I get the feeling that the Tungsten C is the end of the road. It's perfect and thus development can stop.

My 9 year old corgi is more productive than the geniuses at OneSource.

---
David

RE: So the Windows Mobile Powered Treo is on the way
ginsberg @ 5/7/2005 11:50:01 AM # Q
Microsoft Windows Mobile is the umbrella term used to cover the their three mobile platforms - Pocket PC, Pocket PC Phone Edition and Smartphone. Magneto is the next version of Windows Mobile - coming quite soon. The Pocket PC, Phone Edition and Smartphone names will persist. Anyone who thinks these names are going away anytime soon is mistaken.
RE: So the Windows Mobile Powered Treo is on the way
AdamaDBrown @ 5/7/2005 7:46:28 PM # Q
Actually, the Smartphone name may be going away pretty soon. Supposedly they're moving towards reintegrating the PPC and Smartphone OS designs, including bringing the full tap-free navigation setup to PocketPC.

Reply to this comment

PalmOne is doing OK actually

oneself @ 5/5/2005 3:27:30 PM # Q
That's what I wanted to see finally. Get 614,750 palmone sales, plus to it 1,009,040 Treo Sales (ftom here http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7788). What you get?

Clear leader - 1.623.790 PDA devices sold. If not count Nokia so called "smartphones"=).

Why newsmakers do not see it?

RE: PalmOne is doing OK actually
Surur @ 5/5/2005 4:17:11 PM # Q

So in a growing market P1 is shrinking by 200 000 units, and only shipping 13000 more Treo's, and they are doing OK? Doesn't sound like the Treo 650 is setting the market on fire at all.

Surur

RE: PalmOne is doing OK actually
oneself @ 5/5/2005 4:27:22 PM # Q
Yes, but not that bad as someone tries to tell. Something needs to be done for sure. PalmOS 5 is OK for TE2, but absolutely not good for device like LifeDrive. PalmSource is the key, not palmone I think. Where is Linux Palm?

PS. HTC is the king, actually=) This war is inside one company. They make Treos and HP's and Loox, Imates and Dells.

RE: PalmOne is doing OK actually
Surur @ 5/5/2005 4:30:29 PM # Q
Also, you should be subtracting the numbers, which makes things pretty dire for P1. The Canalys numbers are for ALL handheld, connected and unconnected.

So lets take 1009040 P1 sales - 614750 unconnected devices = 394290 Treo sales. About 400 000.

On the WM side 1976970 devices - 1573062 non-smartphone devices= 403908 smartphones sold. Now this excludes all the pocketpcphones (xda's, MDA's HP 6315's etc, ie pocketpc) and only include the motorola 220 etc's, SDA's, audiovox's etc.

So WM smartphones have already overtaken the Treo's, while pocketpcphones (which are tremendously popular in Europe) must have outsold the Treo many times over also.

Surur

RE: PalmOne is doing OK actually
AdamaDBrown @ 5/5/2005 4:33:49 PM # Q
That's not one millon Treo sales. That's one million sales total for PalmOne. In other words, 385,000 Treos in the first quarter.

RE: PalmOne is doing OK actually
oneself @ 5/5/2005 6:02:35 PM # Q
OKOK, you're right=) I misunderstood because of first words of palminfocenter about Canalys research: "A UK mobile research company has released new data about worldwide smartphone sales figures" (http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7788).

So what about HTC? I did not succede to find any informaion about it yet...

RE: PalmOne is doing OK actually
Surur @ 5/5/2005 6:21:08 PM # Q

HTC is doing wonderfully. Its revenue increased by 66% and its profit by 99% last year. Its sure its on the back of win CE market growth.

http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3550.html

Surur

RE: PalmOne is doing OK actually
AdamaDBrown @ 5/5/2005 7:30:55 PM # Q
Plus they took over manufacturing of the Treos--the 650 is the first Treo to come from them--and dramatically increased the number of providers that carry their PPC phones, particularly the Blue Angel.

Looking in the wrong direction?
Masamune @ 5/8/2005 12:07:23 PM # Q
Palm isn't doing amazingly well at the moment. However, in the smartphone stakes, Microsoft hasn't exactly got plain sailing either - everyone seems to have overlooked Symbian. Nokia is a very powerful company and with increasingly sophisticated Series 60 phones, the every popular Nokia Communicator line and Sony Ericsson UIQ series, I think even Microsoft is going to have trouble with this one, especially given the number of programming languages Symbian supports (OPL, C++, Java) and of course its also attractive to developers who don't like the Microsoft OS and way of working...

Symbian or Blackberry the real enemy?
Surur @ 5/8/2005 12:41:49 PM # Q

MS is fully aware of Symbian, but is following their usual strategy which has worked for them in the past, i.e. going after the business market. They are aware of Symbian, but see blackberry as the real competition. Only once they win the highly profitable business space will they will go after consumer space. Usually the cross-over from business to regular users seem to be sufficient in any case to ensure market dominance.

Additionally I don't see any Symbian Point of Sale terminals, or ruggerised devices for used by plumbers etc. MS is serving a much larger market than just the casual PDA user.

Surur

RE: PalmOne is doing OK actually
Masamune @ 5/8/2005 5:03:19 PM # Q
Sorry, I did mean purely in PDA terms, rather than as an overall company. But if you want to put sales of Symbian Smartphones head to head with Microsoft Smartphones, it will show that Symbian at present has a colossal advantage, although it does depend on how you define a Smartphone.

Reply to this comment

palmSource and its licensees need to get up

vesther @ 5/5/2005 4:23:27 PM # Q
"Stand up!!!"

Not listening to its power user base PalmSource's licensees have. Listening to its power user base Microsoft and its licensees have. Ignoring Wireless Fidelity palmOne has. Somewhat listening to the demands of many business users Research In Motion has. Ignoring its Power User Base serves well for the downfall of the Palm OS. Listening to the Power User base PalmSource and its licensees must do.

Listening to its power user base and features power users want all handheld manufactuers must do.

Base the Operating System on Unix for their Mobile Devices Microsoft must. Stabilize the Operating System for better third-party compatiblity PalmSource must. Fix the NVFS Problem on the Tungsten T5, GSM-Powered Treo 650 Smartphones, and Verizon Wireless-Powered Treo 650 palmOne must. Not doing the 512-Byte Syndrome NVFS must. Take no more than 16-32 bytes per block NVFS must.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002

RE: palmSource and its licensees need to get up
AdamaDBrown @ 5/5/2005 4:53:28 PM # Q
Perhaps too steeped in Star Wars hype, someone is. ;)

RE: palmSource and its licensees need to get up
vesther @ 5/5/2005 6:37:36 PM # Q
Lacking vibrate the palmOne Tungsten T5 has. Lacking the Charge Indicator the palmOne Tungsten T5 has. Lacking the Voice Memo/Recording Feature the palmOne Tungsten T5 has. Being the originator of the 512 Byte/Block-Syndrome the palmOne Tungsten T5 has. Upsetting many Tungsten T3 users the palmOne Tungsten T5 has. Overpriced the palmOne Tungsten T5 is. Horrible value the palmOne Tungsten T5 is. Being rushed to the market the Tungsten T5 is in my humble opinion.

It's just my Yoda impression Adama. palmOne has a lot of catching up to do and as I should speak, palmOne has a LOT OF MISTAKES to fix.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002

RE: palmSource and its licensees need to get up
LiveFaith @ 5/6/2005 1:38:44 PM # Q
Did not one of the PalmOne big boys just recently state that the company employees 80% software engineers and 20% hardware? Don't expect to many heavy hitters in the design area if this is true.

I know Palm OS is customizeable, but maybe this is why the glut of software folks at the supposed "hardware company"?

It seems to me that P1 could have copied the TC & T3 hardware designs and features while implementing incremental upgrades along the way to stay technically competitive. Why do so much adjusting for the Z72 & T5 when using nearly identical flagship hardware on second teir devices would suffice without re-inventing the wheel each time.

P1 is putting less features on their devices and having to work harder to do it. I know a 400mhz PXA255 is not as efficient as a 416 PXA270, but hardly anyone would notice the difference if the T5 had simply been a T3 refresh with NVFS and refreshed apps. In fact, we would have all been relatively happy I think. Why do all the internal and external redesigns at huge expense, and leave out all the previous feautures which took huge investments to develop?

Surely, P1 can't be saving that much on the parts for vibra-alarms, LED and to leave the function for tapping the center of the 5-way to turn on the device to see the date/time for 2 seconds. That last one just baffles me and makes me wonder if these guys are not about to just collapse.

PS - I know the T5 is a lot cheaper to mftr and service than the more complex T3 tho.



Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Reply to this comment

Lies, damned lies... and Gartner

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/5/2005 4:21:23 PM # Q
These numbers nearly are useless because of how Gartner defines PDAs. A more useful exercise would involve summarizing TOTAL shipments using PalmOS, RIM, Windows and Symbian and then breaking it down to also show the numbers of devices that shipped with cellphone radios on board. Period. Readers can easily discount the email-centric RIM "PDAs" and recalculate the numbers themselves to see how things shake out for traditional PDAs.

Still, the trends are clear. PalmOS is hurting after a year of being attacked on several fronts both from the outside (RIM, Windows, Symbian) and within (palmOne, schisms inside PalmSource). W T F was pa1mOne thinking by skimping on Wi-Fi and other features long since standard with its competitors? PPC and PalmOS are now essentially the same, so people are naturally going to choose whatever gives them the best hardware. With Sony, Tapwave, Garmin, Samsung etc. all non-players in the PalmOS hardware department and pa1mOne about to retreat into Bill Gates' nasty bosom, PalmOS is in for a ROUGH ride in 2005. How did it come to this? Nagel has a lot to answer to, but at this point, the die is cast.


Alas, poor PalmOS. I knew it well.

Thanks for the memories...


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
AdamaDBrown @ 5/5/2005 4:54:24 PM # Q
IDC and Gartner both have strange ways of defining what's a handheld versus what's a smartphone. I much prefer Canalys' numbers, which include everything: unconnected, WiFi/BT, smartphones, and mobile communicators like the Blackberries. This provides a much more accurate picture in terms of platforms, though I don't think it's broken down by what categories are selling. Still, that's not much of a mystery--the only smartphone selling in any large quantity is the Treo, at ~350k units per quarter, and most of the mobile communicators are either RIM or PPC.

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
Surur @ 5/5/2005 5:06:17 PM # Q
http://www.canalys.com/pr/2004/r2004061.pdf

Canalys numbers 2003 vs 2004. Between 2003 and 2005 P1 is only selling 40 000 more devices per quarter vs HP, which is selling 160 000 more per quarter. This is despite losing Sony and Handspring as PalmOS competitors. In fact Palm OS shipped about 1 400 000 units in q1 2003, vs win ce shipping about 1 000 000. Today the Palm OS market has shrunk by 400 000 per quarter, vs Win CE growing to double of about 2 000 000 per quarter.

Maybe its because the OS is more demanding that the Windows Mobile hardware is better. Either way sticking with Palm OS means going down with a sinking ship. The other windows mobile companies are doing well having a small slice of a large and ever growing pie. If P1 switched to windows mobile there is every chance they might start growing market share vs slowly fading away.

Surur



RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
Foo Fighter @ 5/5/2005 5:54:17 PM # Q
It's all a question of perception really. Personally I don't believe mobile devices with built-in cellular radios should be included with PDA sales, or vice versa. A cellular equipped PDA is a Smartphone. I don't care if the Treo 650 runs the same OS as my T5...they're not in the same category. One is a phone...the other is an organizer. Why Gartner thinks that Blackberry devices should be lumped in with Tungstens and Axims is beyond me. This study is based on a flawed definition of what gets counted and what does not.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
Foo Fighter @ 5/5/2005 6:16:22 PM # Q
"If P1 switched to windows mobile there is every chance they might start growing market share vs slowly fading away."

The thing is...they don't need to "switch". PalmOne can easily offer Windows Mobile based products right alongside the Palm-Powered offerings. No need to choose one side over the. Just offer a buffet offerings that appeal to all types of users. No matter what happens PalmOne needs to end its dependence on PalmOS...and FAST!

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
AdamaDBrown @ 5/5/2005 7:33:04 PM # Q
PalmOne couldn't switch entirely without losing a huge chunk of their market. They utterly dominate the under-$200 segment, partly because it's a place PocketPCs can't go due to the cost of good color screens. Not that I think they would completely switch, but I'm just saying.

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
lorettaboy @ 5/5/2005 8:24:19 PM # Q
Man, I just can't imagine PalmOne making products that run on the Windows Mobile OS. It just wouldn't be right if you know what I mean? To me, it would be like Apple dropping the mac os and shipping their systems with Windows XP.

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/5/2005 11:00:26 PM # Q
Surur @ 5/5/2005 5:06:17 PM

Maybe its because the OS is more demanding that the Windows Mobile hardware is better. Either way sticking with Palm OS means going down with a sinking ship. The other windows mobile companies are doing well having a small slice of a large and ever growing pie. If P1 switched to windows mobile there is every chance they might start growing market share vs slowly fading away.

Surur

No, PPC hardware is better simply because pa1mOne decided to sell cheaper, more profitable hardware, just as Sony decided to sell more expensive (but better built) hardware. Conscious marketing decision + product placement. Sticking with PalmOS is in NO way "going down with a sinking ship". PalmOS still is capable of doing what 99+ % of people need/want a PDA OS to do. It's all in the details. Tapwave, Sony, Handspring and HandEra have all shown in the past few years precisely how flexible PalmOS can be if a little effort is put into it. Sorry, Bubba, but the OS has a LOT more life left in it. We just need a few companies like Sony/Sony Ericsson, Samsung, Apple, Motorola, etc. to create the kind of high quality hardware that PalmOS deserves. Another iPod or Vx to create some excitement. And pa1mOne will be "swinging both ways" for a while, hoping it will increase their chances of getting lucky. Not a bad strategy, since it involves no risk (Sprint already committing for PPC Treo 700s) and no effort (pick up the phone, call HTC and ask them to retool the Treo 650 to work with PPC). Still milking Handspring's design after all this time... How sad. And remember, pa1mOne is now the ONLY player in the PalmOS market. Everyone else is gone. As Apple has learned over the years, you can still do quite well even if you become a "fringe" OS - as long as you don't get too ambitious.


Foo Fighter @ 5/5/2005 5:54:17 PM

It's all a question of perception really. Personally I don't believe mobile devices with built-in cellular radios should be included with PDA sales, or vice versa. A cellular equipped PDA is a Smartphone. I don't care if the Treo 650 runs the same OS as my T5...they're not in the same category. One is a phone...the other is an organizer. Why Gartner thinks that Blackberry devices should be lumped in with Tungstens and Axims is beyond me. This study is based on a flawed definition of what gets counted and what does not.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

Exactly. The definitions of the categories have always been suspect, but they allow for spinning of stats to better suit certain clients. Remember, these "research" firms have to make a buck somehow - and it's not from providing Palminfocenter readers with free market data.

lorettaboy @ 5/5/2005 8:24:19 PM

Man, I just can't imagine PalmOne making products that run on the Windows Mobile OS. It just wouldn't be right if you know what I mean? To me, it would be like Apple dropping the mac os and shipping their systems with Windows XP.

If Steve Jobs felt he could make a buck by selling Apple hardware running XP, he'd do it in a second. And probably sell his own mother while he's at it if the price was good. But XP Apples (expialidocious) would be so anathema to the Apple Cultists that the fallout and resulting damage to the Mac Mystique wouldn't justify the extra sales to fashionistas looking for Apple Style with XP universality. Palm, on the other hand, either thinks PalmOS can withstand the damage to its credibility that PPC Treos will inflict or else sees PalmOS as being potentially less capable than PPC/Windows Mobile. In any event, with no competition in the PalmOS PDA sector, pa1mOne can do whatever the he11 they feel like doing - if you want a new PalmOS PDA, who else can you get one from these days? Monopolies are A Bad Thing.



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
wannitnow @ 5/6/2005 1:48:45 AM # Q
What? And for Palmone to come out with crappy WM based hardware? Fat chance with competition like Dell and HP that anyone is gonna buy from them... To me the problem lies with PalmOne. I can put up with the OS but definately not the rubbish that P1 is trying to get away with...

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/6/2005 2:11:44 AM # Q
The Treo is STILL the best smartphone design available, so it makes sense to release a version with PPC on it. But putting PPC on any other pa1mOne hardware would be ridiculous, since besides the Treo, pa1mOne is selling pure sh1t. Pure sh1t.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
relyons @ 5/6/2005 3:08:21 PM # Q
The Voice of Reason squawked,

"Alas, poor PalmOS. I knew it well. Thanks for the memories..."

We'll miss you too, Voice.

Since you believe the Palm OS is finished, you won't waste your time posting to Palm OS internet forums anymore...

Good bye, Voice...

Eric

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
justauser @ 5/8/2005 9:36:04 PM # Q
Since when have Gartner reports ever been taken seriously? They were saying Palm was dead back when the Palm V was all the rage.

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
Gekko @ 5/8/2005 9:44:31 PM # Q

"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!" - Former Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
justauser @ 5/8/2005 11:10:27 PM # Q
Bush declares war over in Iraq - May 2003

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
Gekko @ 5/8/2005 11:37:20 PM # Q

Republicans keep winning.

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
justauser @ 5/8/2005 11:40:04 PM # Q
But the opposition is not eliminated

RE: Lies, damned lies... and Gartner
Gekko @ 5/8/2005 11:47:24 PM # Q

The opposition is a party devoid of optimism, ideas or solutions.

Good night.



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