MobileInfocenter

Comments on: Foleo Processor Details Revealed?

Rumor: A Flickr user has posted a new series of new pictures of the Palm Foleo in action at a recent 'sneak preview'. One shot in particular reveals what could be definitive information on the processor type and speed, which Palm has yet to officially declare.
Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (120 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Start a new Comment Down

FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/23/2007 11:17:57 PM # Q
The fact that the FOOLeo is using ancient hardware gives creedence to the theory that the FOOLeo hardware has actually been around for 2 years, waiting for the software development to be finalized. Unfortunately for Palm, the competition does not move in slow motion.

But one bonus someone elswhere mentioned: this suggests PalmLinux will actually be able to run well on plain Jane, current-generation Treo hardware (assuming Palm limits multitasking like on the FOOLeo). Palm just needs to get the software right.


TVoR




------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/7864/#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8060/#111823

RE: FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 6:08:30 AM # Q
> ...Palm just needs to get the software right...

You forgot the smilie.

RE: FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 11:09:37 AM # Q
What an interesting request outta TVoR!

Did attendees at these previews sign NDAs?

If not...


No one posting at Treocentral said anything about signing NDAs, so I doubt it. I assume Palm expected the fanboys attending these FOOLeo pimping sessions would all be cheap drunks and blindly GUSH about the FOOLeo pigtop laptop all over the Internet the next day.

I'm not sure why Palm is worried at this stage of the game. They only had - what 3 YEARS to sort the FOOLeo out. At this stage of the game it's too late to be wringing their hands over what woulda, shoulda, coulda...


TVoR

Foleo Retail Price Musings
hkklife @ 7/24/2007 11:41:08 AM # Q
BestBuy has been specifically mentioned as a retail parnter (in fact, the only specific non-Palm partner referenced by name) in Palm's Fooleo sales strategy.

Now, (as of this past weekend) BestBuy are one of the new nationwide retail chains still carrying the remaining Palm PDA line (Z22, E2, TX)--albeit at prices about 3-5% HIGHER than Palm's MSRP.

Assuming this oddball strategy continues going forward, expect the Fooleo to cost more from BestBuy than it will from Palm.com or from a Palm retail store/kiosk. Peanuts, yes, but once you hit $600, those extra $20-$30 tacked onto the pricetag hurt the Fooleo's chances even more (as if the $399 Acer Pentium dual-core notebook running Vista on sale a few rows over at the very same BestBuy wasn't damaging enough!)

As a wise man once said, "Whatta game!"

P.S. Remember how the T|E2 launched at $220 but was quickly dropped down to $200 (I think Brighthand or someone even wrote that Palm told them that the price would drop once the initial sales rush wore off)? I'd expect the Fooleo's $100 rebate to, upon expiration, become a permanent price drop. I think (6 months from now) Palm will mainly try to push mail-in rebate types of promotions like "Get a Foleo for $199.99 with the purchase of any new Treo and activation of service from ________!"

This STILL isn't the purely stand-alone, retail-oriented, no ties to carrier-branded devices whatsoever, mass-market device that Palm needs right now. Palm NEEDS a device that they sell to the crowd who do not want to see "Palm" and "wireless carrier" anywhere in the same sentence.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?
joad @ 7/24/2007 12:06:00 PM # Q
They don't call them "Worst Buy" without cause.

Terrible customer service, violent management, and the prices are usually retail or above. I like to visit there in the winters (when the carnivals are in hibernation) to see the freak show of "carnies" hawking extended warranties and people foolishly spending their money there.

Thankfully the internet has created choices for people stuck in areas where Worst Buy has eliminated any reasonable competition. Even if they had a full lineup of Palm hardware I wouldn't give them any money except if in desperate need of parts with absolutely no other choice.



WAY-OT: RE: FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 12:09:47 PM # Q
I visited BestBuy yet again the other day (think 'cause Kidlet had been promised a DVD or something) and was, a-GAIN, struck by how NOT "Best" BestBuy was for all things electronic.

I regularly get MWave and NewEgg SPAM (due to building Yet Another PC with their parts), now Crutchfield, too.

All HIGHLY recommended.

Smiley located! Film at 11!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 4:21:52 PM # Q
You forgot the smilie.

;-O

RE: FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 4:23:33 PM # Q
Terrible customer service, violent management, and the prices are usually retail or above. I like to visit there in the winters (when the carnivals are in hibernation) to see the freak show of "carnies" hawking extended warranties and people foolishly spending their money there.

Bwahahahaha!

Reply to this comment

Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/23/2007 11:24:17 PM # Q
http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=148352


Some poeople that went to the FOOLeo previews Palm has staged over the past month report MULTIPLE episodes where there are "issues" with the FOOLeo pairing with Palm-supplied Treos. 3 years of FOOLeo development and the syncing feature STILL isn't ready for prime time?

W W B D ?
(What Would Beersy Do?)

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 6:11:04 AM # Q
> ...What Would Beersy Do?

According to him in a "veiled comment", he signed up quite some time ago.

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 11:14:50 AM # Q
> ...What Would Beersy Do?

According to him in a "veiled comment", he signed up quite some time ago.

I believe Beersy is currently developing an app that scales directly from the Treo to the FOOLeo/desktop. You won't hear him EVER say anything negative about a device that he hopes will put food on his table. As someone once said: "Be careful out there!"

TVoR

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
cervezas @ 7/24/2007 1:11:28 PM # Q
Veiled? My exact words were "I for one am *very* enthusiastic, both as a user and developer."

I make a very nice living as a mobile application developer. I'm not announcing or promising any products for Foleo at this time. The "if" and "when" will depend on other irons I've got in the fire, and Pikesoft's main business has always been developing applications for other companies. I also wouldn't see much benefit in pre-announcing an application in any case. But the fact that I or any other developer decides to develop for the Foleo shows that they are willing to put real money where their mouth is.

As for you guys, you aren't even willing to put your real name on a PIC comment (not that I can really blame you, heh!)


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 1:23:36 PM # Q
Now:

> ...I'm not announcing or promising any products for
> Foleo at this time...

but earlier:

> ...Foleo is a great wide-open opportunity for developers, Pikesoft
> in particular. Can't promise anything just yet, but I think you'll
> be hearing an announcement or two from us later in the year...

I would have changed my mind, too, after finding out more about the Fooleo.

Giggle.

Still crazy
cervezas @ 7/24/2007 3:42:57 PM # Q
I would have changed my mind, too, after finding out more about the Fooleo.

No change of mind at all. I said I wasn't promising Foleo app announcements from Pikesoft before, and I said I'm not promising them now.

But from my perspective the system and specs on the Foleo seem pretty spot-on for what it needs to do. I'd rather have the good battery life and that big bright screen than a hotter processor.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 4:20:22 PM # Q
No change of mind at all. I said I wasn't promising Foleo app announcements from Pikesoft before, and I said I'm not promising them now.

As someone once said:

"Giggle."

Tee hee!

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
mikecane @ 7/24/2007 4:30:47 PM # Q
>>>As for you guys, you aren't even willing to put your real name on a PIC comment

I am. The Flopeo still sucks ass nevertheless.

Return to earth from your trip already.

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
cervezas @ 7/24/2007 4:46:13 PM # Q
The Flopeo still sucks ass

Shhhh... that feature hasn't been announced. I expect you're going to love it, though, Mike.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 4:52:37 PM # Q
Cool - I'll quote you officially then - On Yahoo someone was touting your company's "blog" as a source of learned poop on the Fooleo.

Now I'll post, with link, that you think the Fooleo sucks ass.

Giggle.

Oh no!!!!! Be careful David!!!!!
freakout @ 7/24/2007 5:19:16 PM # Q
Uh-oh. SV is going to post on the internet. With a link, no less!!!

Pikesoft might as well just close its doors now. However will you recover from the crippling damage this malicious act will cause? (swoon)

Giggle giggle, tee-hee!

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 6:37:39 PM # Q
> ...With a link, no less!...

Of course - nothing means squat out here unless you can confirm it with an information source outside your control.

SV, the Busy Little Bee
cervezas @ 7/24/2007 8:22:06 PM # Q
nothing means squat out here unless you can confirm it with an information source outside your control.

Glad I could give you some squat to link to then. I really admire your far-reaching and selfless mission to educate the world about these critical sources of information, SeldomVisitor.

You can link to that bit of information, too, if it pleases you.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

416mhz. Video.

VampireLestat @ 7/24/2007 12:33:43 AM # Q
I hope CorePlayer will be written the ground up for Foleo.

At 416 mhz, best we can hope for is 320x480 30fps.
Which would be 'ok', for now.

Question is... will the Linux OS footprint be much heavier than Palm OS 5.
If it is equal or lighter (or more optimized), then video will be 'ok' at 480x320 or maybe even a bit more.

they really should put an Intel graphics coprocessor

RE: 416mhz. Video.
freakout @ 7/24/2007 2:38:45 AM # Q
Rather than Coreplayer, I'd like to see Palm actually come up with their own decent media playing software. It doesn't have to be anything flashy; it doesn't need special features; it just needs to be compatible a broad range of media formats and stick to Palm's (usually nice) simple UI principles.

There'd still be the option of purchasing more fully-featured and configurable media programs ala` pTunes or Coreplayer if the user so desired. But for Palm to not include any kind of out-of-the-box media functionality (apart from a simple photo viewer) is completely insane for a $600 device.

They keep pushing the "but it's not a laptop, it's an email/document machine" line, but I find myself becoming more and more convinced of the idea that they've had to rush it out before its ready. If Palm shipped Foleo with a decent built-in software package, then it could actually could be the "laptop replacement" that people have been clamoring for. And we do want it: who wants all the clunkiness of a desktop interface while on-the-go? The idea of bringing PDA sensibilities to the laptop is excellent one; but Palm appear to have made some serious mistakes in bringing it to fruition.

Here's hoping Foleo 2.0 is a stronger effort. As it is, they're limiting themselves to quite a small niche. Hopefully it won't be so small that they just abandon the idea altogether, ala` Lifedrive.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: 416mhz. Video.
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 6:20:08 AM # Q
> ...I find myself becoming more and more convinced of the idea
> that they've had to rush it out before its ready...

When "Member of the Executive, but titleless" Jeff Hawkins says DURING the very-public introduction of the Fooleo to Walt Mossberg and Kate Swisher:

== "...If I could do it again I'd put a faster processor in it..."

you could probably lay money on the line that the device, after three years, was indeed "rushed" out.

RE: 416mhz. Video.
joad @ 7/24/2007 12:10:37 PM # Q
Three years *IS* a rush for Palm. Heck, it took them a year to release their first firmware fix for the 700p attempting to address issues that should have been apparent in beta testing. I'd say they move in glacial time, but with global warming it would appear that the glaciers have the edge in speed.

Reply to this comment

kernel version...

feranick @ 7/24/2007 3:39:31 AM # Q
I am amazed of that such an old version of the kernel is used (2.4.21). The current version of the 2.4.x branch is 2.4.34. I wonder why.

I asked before this question, and as an answer I got: it's still in development. From back then, the version hasn't changed. Still in development?

RE: kernel version...
xpan @ 7/24/2007 6:27:05 AM # Q
version 2.21 is very very stable. I use it on my fedora and have no problems with it, whatsoever.

---
"home is where my computer is..."
RE: kernel version...
xpan @ 7/24/2007 6:28:58 AM # Q
... of course i meant version 2.4.21

---
"home is where my computer is..."
RE: kernel version...
pmjoe @ 7/24/2007 8:13:12 AM # Q
and most of the current open source mobile device development has moved on to 2.6 IMHO.

RE: ANCIENT kernel version in FOOLeo...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 10:34:00 AM # Q
This again suggests how long the LifeDrive 2 FOOLeo has been ready for: Palm is ready to release it with a 4 year old kernel! (Of course maybe Palm has decided that 2.4.21 is "good enough" and it's too much of a hassle to re-integrate newer kernels into the Foleo's version of PalmLinux.)

http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/

http://www.kernel.org/


TVoR

RE: kernel version...
feranick @ 7/24/2007 5:04:32 PM # Q
The real question about the kernel is not necessarily if the 2.4.21 is good enough, but how much of the innovation that went into the later versions of the kernel were left out. I am talking about power optimization for embedded devices. With all the work Nokia is doing on the 2.6 branch and Intel is starting for the embedded Linux platform, really I keep asking myself: why is Palm simply following its own path?

BTW, the fact that the 2.4.21 is very stable on Fedora does not imply that it will be efficient on an embedded device. After all I was quite unimpressed about the battery life of the Foleo. I wonder how much of that depends on poor power optimization.

Reply to this comment

and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???

pmjoe @ 7/24/2007 8:17:51 AM # Q
They could generate more interest with a Zire 22 replacement.

RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
Timothy Rapson @ 7/24/2007 10:17:12 PM # Q
Right, I just got a refurb TE2. I would rather have bought a new Z22 or something like the E31 my wife has but with a high res screen. What I really want is a Zire 73, camera and full screen. Alas.

RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
pmjoe @ 7/26/2007 2:02:44 PM # Q
Even if Palm doesn't release another PDA, someone there with half a brain must realize by now that Palm is going to lose millions on the Foleo. None of the reviews have been positive, and I see no demand from customers. Palm, please cut your losses and cancel it! Or at least, delay, delay, delay until you can get some devices out there people actually want which run the same OS, so you might actually get some developer support.

It's like the ship is sinking, so Palm decided to go build a dock to tie it up at. They need to right the ship first.

Palm is like the poster child for how to take a company who has been given every opportunity to succeed and the management will find a way to guarantee that they'll run it into the ground.


RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/26/2007 2:19:45 PM # Q
Except for the cryptic comments made by the CFO at the last earnings call that could be suggestive of PALM getting BACK INTO handhelds (my first impression was such), I think PALM ==has==to pursue the Fooleo and its equivalents at this time - they are losing any advantage (lost already?) in the smartphone sector.

That is, disregarding handhelds, they have no (intermediate to long term) future EXCEPT Fooleos.


RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
hkklife @ 7/26/2007 3:22:00 PM # Q
No, SV, I think we can safely consider Palm totally out of handheld/PDAs in the conventional sense of the term. They will most likely drop the prices one final time on the remaining three models and try to coast through the end of the year. I could also see them droping one model (maybe the E2?) and consolidating the two remaining models at the $79.99 & $199.99 pricepoints just to maintain a toehold on their retail presence until the Fooleo arrives.

AT BEST, assuming the Fooleo ends up with stronger sales out of the gate than we are expecting, I could forsee Palm releasing one or two spin-offs of the Fooleo architecture: The "fullsize" original Fooleo could be joined by a smaller clamshell Windows CE-sized device (no CF slot, video-out etc), and possibly a larger tablet-oriented device (Samsung Q1-sized perhaps?).

I think that the Treo line will continue along essentially changed for at least the next year, with the higher-end Treos running WM6 and the midrange and low-end Treos running WinMob Standard & various permutations of FrankenGarnet.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/26/2007 4:15:37 PM # Q
I am of two minds on the "out of handhelds" thought - those CFO comments (discussed somewhere around PiC already) could be taken a couple different ways, I guess. I took them - and may still take them - as to suggest that at least the CFO thinks there is a possibility that the profitable handheld sector may be worth considering anew rather than dropping.

RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
pmjoe @ 7/27/2007 4:33:03 PM # Q
I guess the thing to me, and for anyone who hasn't handled one ... the iPhone is essentially where Palm ought to be with PDAs right now. Beautiful screen, light/right feel, graphically appealing, combo of Bluetooth, WiFi and cellular, advanced input techniques, etc. ... but the thing that pulls it all together is OS X underneath. Apple has not gotten it perfect yet either, so there is certainly room for Palm in the market. Palm has needed a new PDA/smartphone OS for years, yet instead of putting resources into that, they develop a new OS for a one-off, low power laptop. Maintaining an OS is not a cheap affair either.

If Palm is going to get their act together, they need announce that the Foleo is part of an advanced mobile OS strategy to have a consistent OS across multiple Palm handheld/mobile devices (Treos/PDAs in particular). If Palm starts letting developers write apps for this hi-res, mouse pointer-based interface, having developers take those back to smaller screens and touch/button input is going to be a much bigger hurdle.

RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
cervezas @ 7/27/2007 7:20:08 PM # Q
Palm has needed a new PDA/smartphone OS for years, yet instead of putting resources into that, they develop a new OS for a one-off

I am quite sure that Foleo is not a one-off, and it is a matter of public record that its development hasn't been exclusive of smartphone OS development at Palm.
If Palm is going to get their act together, they need announce that the Foleo is part of an advanced mobile OS strategy to have a consistent OS across multiple Palm handheld/mobile devices (Treos/PDAs in particular). If Palm starts letting developers write apps for this hi-res, mouse pointer-based interface, having developers take those back to smaller screens and touch/button input is going to be a much bigger hurdle.

Probably. But not necessarily. B-) I like the question that underlies your comment: is there a way for an application to be written so that the same code can run on the large and small screen and render a device-appropriate user experience on each? I happen to believe there is.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

The photo(s) of the specs are disappearing....

SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 8:41:17 AM # Q
== "...My colleague wanted to pass on that he was removing
== the sharing of a certain photo - it apparently caused a
== bit of a stir at Palm..."

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1315077&postcount=61

Someone better transcribe them before they're all gone.

And someone who cares should ask PALM why they are SO anal about secrecy like this?

They are shooting themselves in the foot...or head.

RE: The photo(s) of the specs are disappearing....
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 10:17:06 AM # Q
And someone who cares should ask PALM why they are SO anal about secrecy like this?

Could it be... EMBARASSMENT? Do ya think? How many new 415MHz laptops have you seen on sale in say the past 5 years? Sheeesh.

P.S. Don't pretend you don't "care", hengeem. If you were as nonchalant as you want to appear to be you wouldn't be posting here about a Palm laptop that appears to be doomed to fail before it has even been released. Maybe YOU should sign up for the beta test...


TVoR

RE: The photo(s) of the specs are disappearing....
hkklife @ 7/24/2007 10:38:54 AM # Q
You know, I just had a epiphany of sorts. Or at least a nasty little thought!:


I think the Fooleo, in a smaller-than-its-current formfactor, was originally concocted as the 2nd "Mobile Manager" device from Palm. Palm always did refer to Mobile Manager(s) in the plural and the LifeDrive occupied a category of its own on palm.com. It's even possible that this thing's original roots date back to (gasp!) a Tungsten C2 concept!

Think about it. The Fooleo has similar (but slightly better) specs than a LifeDrive. It has an internal CF slot that could easily have contained an 8gb MicrodDrive (remember the reports on Brighthand back in '05 that said an 8gb Microdrive LD was coming soon?). It has a fullsize SD slot which departs drastically from Palm's new fascination with miniSD (further dating the Fooleo). I think that Palm was going to have it run either WM5 with a 320x240 LCD (maybe as a nifty followup device to '06's Treo 700w) or Garnet 5.4.x with a 480x320 LCD which would make it probably about the size of one of the old Win CE clamshells from NEC or Compaq or the old Atari Portfolio.

Palm was going to try to make it their video & mp3-playing, web-browsing, e-mailing alternative to the iPod. But then when Palm realized that Microdrives were on the way out in favor of larger flash capacities (this was also probably around when Palm & Access were having success in the long-term negotiations for the Garnet IP)and/or when it became clear that Garnet would have to be hacked up too much to run on a device with this sort of pricetag, they enlarged the size to a subnotebook, removed the Microdrive (and nearly all media functionality) and began shoehorning Linux in there. Then someone (probably Hawkins) had the bright idea to adopt Palm's neglected Bluetooth cellphone DUN capability from their OS5 PDAs and graft it onto the Fooleo to try and extend the functioality of the rapidly aging Treo line.

So there's probably how the device's gestation time went from a 12 to 18 months to ~ 3 years.

Makes you wonder what other good ideas have gotten squashed over at Palm over the past few years (remember the Tungsten T4 rumors?).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: The photo(s) of the specs are disappearing....
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 10:48:19 AM # Q
> ...Maybe YOU should sign up for the beta test...

Lol!

I actually toyed with the idea of simply lying about owning, say, a TREO 700wx and signing up...

Whatta game!

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner, folks!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 11:19:46 AM # Q

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8837/#135444

Expect a visit from Palm's Men In Black today, hkklife. Nice knowin' ya, buddy!

TVoR

RE: The photo(s) of the specs are disappearing....
cervezas @ 7/24/2007 3:36:40 PM # Q
Not sure why anyone would think that developing a device with a new form factor, new operating system, and new application suite should take the same time as developing a product that evolves an existing form factor, OS, and application set. It took a good bit more than 3 years to develop the original Pilot. I expect there will also be years of refinement ahead for the Foleo, just as there was for the Pilot.

I think people are probably right to suppose that Foleo is having to go to market a little sooner than planned to avoid having its marketing message diluted by release of other micro-laptop products that look superficially similar. As a result they're probably having to rely more heavily on 3rd party developers than they had planned for the 1.0 release.

As for being secretive about the specs, I think it's pretty obvious: The Pilot's slow processor and meager memory were mocked mercilously before that product hit the shelves where it could be judged in actual use as hitting the sweet spot. As always, Palm wants the attention of potential customers to be on what the product can do for them and how quickly it performs those tasks in actual use, not on the technical specs.

The day Palm gives up on the idea that "less is more" in mobile computing and just try to compete on features and specs is the day they lose their strongest positive differentiator from Nokia, Microsoft, Intel, etc.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: The photo(s) of the specs are disappearing....
TooMuch @ 7/24/2007 7:12:57 PM # Q
"...Palm wants the attention of potential customers to be on what the product can do for them and how quickly it performs those tasks in actual use, not on the technical specs."

Spot on.

RE: The photo(s) of the specs are disappearing....
Timothy Rapson @ 7/25/2007 4:29:38 PM # Q
Wow, Hkklife seems to have a perfect explaination for this odd product.

Beersy, I usually respect you, but your last comment about Palm releasing products based upon what works rather than specs is the most rediculous bit of pandering chauvanistic drivel I have even read......or you are right and I have to actually go think before I post this.

NAH! I'll just post it and come back to apologize after everyone has stopped reading this thread.

I am happy to have such bright, witty, posts to read as those from all of you.

RE: The photo(s) of the specs are disappearing....
freakout @ 7/27/2007 7:52:56 PM # Q
but your last comment about Palm releasing products based upon what works rather than specs is the most rediculous bit of pandering chauvanistic drivel I have even read

Are you joking? What's so ridiculous about that? If it wasn't true, then Palm would be selling the fantasy uber-PDAs that so many long-time fans of the company keep asking for.

There's a reason that the hardware in the Treo line hasn't seen a refresh in years: what they've got works perfectly well for a smartphone, and it helps them keep costs down. And that's probably the same reason the Foleo has a (relatively) slow processor: it works fine for a simple email/document/web machine - which is all they say they're trying to accomplish with thist first version - and there's no point in driving costs up and hacking away at their own profit margins just to satisfy the internet crowds that prefer to look at specs rather than functionality as the primary measure of a device's usefulness.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: The photo(s) of the specs are disappearing....
SeldomVisitor @ 7/28/2007 7:01:12 AM # Q
I think you two may have a different definition of "works".

Reply to this comment

Ryan, you need to delete the photos ASAP

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 10:09:10 AM # Q
The original poster on Treocentral has indicated they want the photos taken down:


http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1315077&postcount=61


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/7864/#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8060/#111823

RE: Ryan, you need to delete the photos ASAP
hkklife @ 7/24/2007 10:22:13 AM # Q
Um, Voice, since when did you become such a conformist (especially to the requests of Palm)!?!?!

WHY did that picture cause such a stir at Palm? These things will be on store shelves in a matter of weeks. I wager it'll be just a day or two before one is dissected and posted on Engadget. The cat's gonna eventually be let out of the bag one way or another. Palm knew what they were getting into by letting "regular joes" into this little hands-on event. Besides, when Hawkins himself says he wished it had a faster CPU onboard, that pretty much summarizes the entire right thing in one fell swoop.

Seriously, sooner or later SOMEONE will reveal what the Foleo's specs are. It can be Palm or or it can be a user--and if I were Palm, I'd go ahead and try to spin the mediocre specs by saying that the Fooleo is infinitely expandable with SDHC & CF support and that a freebie media player is in the works and will be available for download soon.

I personally think Palm is ASHAMED of the Foleo's feeble capabilities in light to the competition's machines. So they are going to try to tout what it CAN do ad nauseum instead of listing concrete specs. The Fooleo is nothing more than another hybrid/retread of Palm's previous set of T5/LifeDrive-era specs (416mhz CPU, 128mb RAM, SD + CF slots). Somehow the Foleo's incomplete set of bundled apps reminds me a lot of the early days of the T|T: decent hardware but hobbled by an utter lack of software to take advantage of it (remember the AWOL RealPlayer fiasco back in '02?)

Palm needs to realize that the mantra of "instant-on, instant-off, e-mail machine" is going to sound as stale in 2008 as "Zen" and "PIM functions only" sounded in 2000/2001 when users were clamoring for lots of RAM, mp3 playback, high-res color screens, and gaming capabilities in Palm's PDAs.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Ryan, you need to delete the photos ASAP
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 10:54:14 AM # Q
What an interesting request outta TVoR!

Did attendees at these previews sign NDAs?

If not...

RE: Ryan, you need to delete the photos ASAP
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 11:00:09 AM # Q
Um, Voice, since when did you become such a conformist (especially to the requests of Palm)!?!?!

Personally, I don't care, but as the one who submitted the tip to Palminfocenter I felt it would be irresponsible to not let Ryan know the owner of these photos apparently does not want them published here.

WHY did that picture cause such a stir at Palm? These things will be on store shelves in a matter of weeks. I wager it'll be just a day or two before one is dissected and posted on Engadget. The cat's gonna eventually be let out of the bag one way or another. Palm knew what they were getting into by letting "regular joes" into this little hands-on event. Besides, when Hawkins himself says he wished it had a faster CPU onboard, that pretty much summarizes the entire right thing in one fell swoop.

As I said above Palm is probably (and SHOULD be) embarassed by the FOOLeo's pathetic specs. At the very least they could have used the 624 MHz version of the processor - which we saw in Dell's last PPC model... 2 YEARS ago! Like you said, even Hawkins admitted they cheaped out too much on the specs. (I STILL can't believe he said that publicly!)

Seriously, sooner or later SOMEONE will reveal what the Foleo's specs are. It can be Palm or or it can be a user--and if I were Palm, I'd go ahead and try to spin the mediocre specs by saying that the Fooleo is infinitely expandable with SDHC & CF support and that a freebie media player is in the works and will be available for download soon.

Maybe Palm is going to delay the FOOLeo's release to try and get the software bundle updated? It's going to take a lot of SPINNING and a TON of software (and lipstick) to make this FOOLeo pig look pretty. A PalmOS emulator at release could distract everyone from the specs, though. If Palm is smart they will push the release back to September or so, iron out all the bugs, license a PIM suite, beef up security, include MP3 and video players and maybe an IM app. And make the damn email app work WITHOUT needing a Treo! Did you read the posts on Treocentral about how Palm couldn't even get email syncing going at some of the demos? W T F???

I personally think Palm is ASHAMED of the Foleo's feeble capabilities in light to the competition's machines. So they are going to try to tout what it CAN do ad nauseum instead of listing concrete specs. The Fooleo is nothing more than another hybrid/retread of Palm's previous set of T5/LifeDrive-era specs (416mhz CPU, 128mb RAM, SD + CF slots). Somehow the Foleo's incomplete set of bundled apps reminds me a lot of the early days of the T|T: decent hardware but hobbled by an utter lack of software to take advantage of it (remember the AWOL RealPlayer fiasco back in '02?)

Palm needs to realize that the mantra of "instant-on, instant-off, e-mail machine" is going to sound as stale in 2008 as "Zen" and "PIM functions only" sounded in 2000/2001 when users were clamoring for lots of RAM, mp3 playback, high-res color screens, and gaming capabilities in Palm's PDAs.

"Instant-on" as the FOOLeo's main selling feature? Pathetic. Palm is TOTALLY screwed.


TVoR

RE: Ryan, you need to delete the photos ASAP
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 11:13:10 AM # Q
> Personally, I don't care, but...

But..but...but..YOU are the chuba-whatever-the-hell-it-is!

Oh, yeah...that. Minor background detail, eh?

RE: Ryan, you need to delete the photos ASAP
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 11:23:25 AM # Q
That would be just SICK. Unfortunately, not.
Fooleo DOES support SDHC but the Treo 650 & 680 are unsupported?
hkklife @ 7/24/2007 11:26:18 AM # Q
First of all, one saving grace in all of this is that it IS confirmed by the TC faithful that the Fooleo can use 8gb SDHC cards. So 8gb of cheap SDHC + 8gb of cheap CF makes the Fooleo at least a much more appealing device on paper.

Now, what I also find odd is the fact that Palm is only "certifying" the Treo 700w/wx/p as well as the 750/755p initially working with the Fooleo. No 680 or 650 support? I can understand the 650 not being supported but the 680 is currently Palm's ONLY POS GSM device and, in all likelihood, their best seller globally.

It has a BT 1.2 stack (and a slightly more reliable one than the non-1.10 700p at that!) so aside from the sluggish EDGE speeds there's no technical reason I can think of. Maybe Palm is going to introduce a new POS GSM Treo this fall with miniSD and EDGE Evolution support? (things are reportedly so slow when going from the Treo to the Fooleo even with a CDMA EVDO Treo that a few minutes more for an EDGE Treo shouldn't matter!)

At least Palm could give an unsupported "it works but you ain't gonna like it" type of warning with the 680 like Sling gives to users of non-EVDO Treos!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Ryan, you need to delete the photos ASAP
joad @ 7/24/2007 12:23:19 PM # Q
>>It has a BT 1.2 stack

yeah, plus wifi "b," single USB port and no microphone. Cutting edge, eh?

RE: Ryan, you need to delete the photos ASAP
hkklife @ 7/24/2007 2:13:52 PM # Q
Joad;

I meant that the Treo 680 has a BT 1.2 stack vs. the 1.1 version on the Treo 650. I still see no legitimate reason why NOT to support the 680.

The Fooleo is also 1.2 compliant but I was really hoping for the Foleo to kickstart Palm's move into BT 2.0 w/ A2DP across the line.


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Ryan, you need to delete the photos ASAP
TooMuch @ 7/24/2007 7:25:01 PM # Q
"in 2000/2001 when users were clamoring for lots of RAM, mp3 playback, high-res color screens, and gaming capabilities in Palm's PDAs."

Large amounts of internal RAM didn't catch on (external RAM did). MP3 on a PDA never really made an impact (i.e. iPod is even a PDA). Hi-Res color screens made a difference. And all the so-called "gaming PDAs" flopped. One outta four ain't bad for verbal bomb-throwing though.

Reply to this comment

Foleo the must have email device bar none

Valhala @ 7/25/2007 4:04:33 AM # Q
Maybe Palm should put a solar cell on the Foleo, donate some to the third world as a goodwill gesture of corporate america where Nigerians could use it,so I can find out where the money I sent them to help the health minister get his assets back, and my fee for helping him. This would be excellant press for people outside of the US to see for themselves Palm's mastery of this technological wonder. I applaud Palm for tnot listening to the naysayers and going ahead with a project which will surely be the must have email device bar none.

Reply to this comment

Haha ... Long life to the n800 ...

khertan @ 7/25/2007 11:02:02 AM # Q
Haha ... long life to the n800 ...

Benoit HERVIER
http://www.khertan.net/
RE: Haha ... Long life to the n800 ...
sgiga @ 7/26/2007 2:05:20 AM # Q
He he. I've had my N800 for a couple of weeks now. It can stay in sleep mode for a couple of weeks on the battery, and is therefore pretty much instant on for all practical use. Battery drain in sleep mode is about 3% of normal use, and you have to recharge it *sometime*.

A slide out/folding keyboard would be nice, and more processing power wouldn't hurt for flash intensive web pages (most newspaper news pages are full of flash today). Other than those details it completely rocks, *and* I can put it in my pocket.

The N800 has only a 330 MHz processor, but that is a new and modern processor unlike the 400 MHz xscale on the Foleo. My good old T3 runs a 400 MHz xscale, and compared with the N800, the N800 is faster, much longer battery life, more responsive, much higher screen res. If the Foleo comes with a 400 MHz xscale, it will be slooow.

My whish list now after a couple of weeks with the N800 would be a N800 for factor with a 600-1000 MHz processor or a dedicated graphics processor and a sliding keyboard.

Reply to this comment

Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!

hkklife @ 7/25/2007 11:18:46 AM # Q
YEE-HAWWWW!

http://www.palm.com/us/support/downloads/windesk62.html

Gonna download it in a bit and give it a whirl. Full PIC news item to be posted shortly...



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Semi-OT: RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/25/2007 11:21:45 AM # Q
AH...you have a problem with deciding under what topic to place posts like these, too, eh?

My major problems with PiC is doing that AND doing a search - the search function(s) (?) appear to be totally braindead - or I am in attempting to use them.

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
hkklife @ 7/25/2007 11:47:55 AM # Q
Drop Ryan a line...I am sure he'd be delighted to help you figure out the ins & outs of PIC (and yes, PIC has a lot of "little secrets" to be unearthed!)



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
Ryan @ 7/25/2007 11:52:20 AM # Q
The search is powered by google, and is pretty well indexed:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/search.asp

There is also a search box on each page, usually on the top right or under the menubar on the homepage. If you have any specfic questions feel free to let me know.

Broken search and LOTS of iPhoen 3rd-party apps
SeldomVisitor @ 7/25/2007 2:42:26 PM # Q
I just typed in "hello world iphone" to the search and got crap.

Just wanted to find my own comment/post on the hacked-development of 3rd party apps for the iPhone so I could append this:

-- http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/25/iphone-dev-wiki-update-the-floodgates-have-opened/

Three = LOTS nowadays, does it?
freakout @ 7/25/2007 5:30:02 PM # Q
As Mr. Spock might say: fascinating.
RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/25/2007 5:39:30 PM # Q
You CONSISTENTLY are confirming my previous comment's validity about needing to sit on your hands.

== "...So far the list includes tools like a working Apache
== web server, python, shell -- and a pile of associated
== binaries like ls, rm, echo, csh, and tsh..."

Three, indeed.

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
freakout @ 7/25/2007 6:49:23 PM # Q
Dear SV,

I do not pretend to be an expert on Linux or coding. I can, however, tell you that a "pile of assorted binaries" is far, far, far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far (deep breath) far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far far from being an "application".

Tools like Apache fit that definition. Binaries like echo do not.

Giggle!

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/25/2007 7:07:59 PM # Q
You are correct - you are not an expert on coding.

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
freakout @ 7/25/2007 7:13:34 PM # Q
So... I'm right then?

Giggle! Chortle! Snort! Guffaw! Titter! Snicker! Chuckle!


RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
Gekko @ 7/25/2007 7:22:57 PM # Q

am i reading this correctly? free Outlook sync included in the download? NICE!!!! No more looking for the long lost CD that came with your Palm? No more worried about version compatibility???????????? NICE!!!

Outlook 2007 synchronization: Allows you to use your USB sync cable to synchronize with Outlook 2007's Calendar, Contacts, Tasks and Notes.



'LOTS of iPhone 3rd-party apps'
cervezas @ 7/25/2007 8:55:07 PM # Q
SV wrote:
...So far the list includes tools like a working Apache web server, python, shell -- and a pile of associated binaries like ls, rm, echo, csh, and tsh...

Like the article says, these are tools for hackers not applications. For example, none of them have graphical user interfaces. Unless you count listing and deleting all the files on your iPhone from a C shell command prompt as having "iPhone applications," the 3rd-party app count still stands at zero.

And that's where I think Apple (by contractual agreement with Cingular, no doubt) is going to keep it, with the help of the iPhone's handy-dandy system update feature.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
freakout @ 7/25/2007 9:17:21 PM # Q
Hush, David - SV has seen $8.81 wiped off his Apple stock in the last day. Gotta try and turn that opinion around somehow!
RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/26/2007 6:14:38 AM # Q
Ahem - you readily apparently are not an expert in stocks, either.

Giggle.

[BTW - don't believe I've ever held a position in AAPL - and, as with all trading positions (as opposed to investing positions - but you haven't a clue what the difference is, eh?) - if I did I wouldn't hold it across the Close (that's 4PM for the naive) nor across earnings - so from now on when you attack me personally, please get THAT fact right]

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/26/2007 6:18:57 AM # Q
> ...these are ...not applications...none of them have
> graphical user interfaces...

That redefinition of what an application is is beyond silly and calls into SERIOUS question all sorts of things about your "developer" background and qualifications.

And THAT is no kidding at all.

Zing!
freakout @ 7/26/2007 6:51:04 AM # Q
Ahem - you readily apparently are not an expert in stocks, either.

God no. I have a life.

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/26/2007 7:41:28 AM # Q
Oh that's okay - the caution to sit on your hands, though, is still valid - if you're gonna spout crap, at least you should accurately spout crap. Granted, you've more than set a precedent for spouting inaccurate crap but one can always try, eh?

Here's the chart for AAPL (just for you tinyURLed!):

-- http://tinyurl.com/2dq584

you can clickety-click at the bottom to show 1-day, 5-day, 1-month, etc charts showing AAPL's historical behavior.

Last night, AAPL set a new high record for its history - $150-ish per share. That doesn't yet show up on the chart but it does show here:

-- http://tinyurl.com/2694pc

Since the data on this page is volatile (ahem, for the braindead that means it changes over time and, in this case, will change as of 16:00 tonight), here're the last few entries showing the prices from last night just in case you visit the URL too late:

time/price/trade-size

19:59 $150.18 300
19:59 $150.18 200
19:59 $150.20 100
19:59 $150.12 100
...

There were more than 16 million shares traded afterhours, BTW.

What does this all mean? Well, it means your multiply-inaccurate personal attack:

== "...SV has seen $8.81 wiped off his Apple stock in the last day..."

was roughly equivalent to, say, the 10-round "article" in value.

Giggle.

can we get any more OT?
freakout @ 7/26/2007 10:21:06 AM # Q
Oh, settle down you big sheila. I'm just toying with you now. Are we awake yet? :P

(my post was made after the AT&T quarterly figures were announced, but before Apple's came out. direct any complaints about inaccuracy to ars technica. ;) )

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
naio21 @ 7/26/2007 2:10:42 PM # Q
Crapple is a sh!tty company.

Ivan
RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
abosco @ 7/27/2007 12:15:50 AM # Q
You're right. If only every company had the innovation pace that Palm has maintained, we could expect the Commodore 64 in the year 2045.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a
more iPhone 'application' foolishness
cervezas @ 7/27/2007 12:48:52 PM # Q
I wrote:
Like the article says, these are tools for hackers not applications. For example, none of them have graphical user interfaces. Unless you count listing and deleting all the files on your iPhone from a C shell command prompt as having "iPhone applications," the 3rd-party app count still stands at zero.

SV replied:
That redefinition of what an application is is beyond silly and calls into SERIOUS question all sorts of things about your "developer" background and qualifications.

It wasn't a definition. But I'm curious: do you really folks will consider something that can only be executed on the iPhone through a terminal session on a connected PC to be an "iPhone application"? You realize that with no access to the GUI on the iPhone there is no keyboard, therefore no way to run an interactive session in the shell without a Mac or PC hanging off a serial cable. Hmmm... I wonder if I could run my "iPhone applications" from my Treo using a Palm OS SSH client and a home-made serial cable to connect the two devices. Since you're so interested I'll give it a try and let you know!

Either way, given your "old school" interest in command-line applications, I'm surprised you haven't been touting the dozens of such applications that the Foleo will be shipping with right out of the box (!) thanks to the Linux shell accessible from the console. There's even a KEYBOARD (w00t!) so you don't need a PC companion to run these apps like you do with the iPhone! No wonder you said you're hopping from foot to foot to get your hands on a Foleo. ;-)


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
jca666us @ 7/31/2007 8:58:30 AM # Q
actually an app has been written for the iPhone that utilizes the GUI.

Keep hawking foleo - qvc will be selling them for $89.99 each.


RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
freakout @ 7/31/2007 10:02:40 AM # Q
Wow, one whole app!!! Awesome!!! /sarcasm

Can't wait to see all the excitement when they have to re-hack those "apps", when Apple and AT&T break them with the next software update...

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/31/2007 10:26:23 AM # Q
> ...re-hack...

It's called a relink.

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
jca666us @ 7/31/2007 2:32:45 PM # Q
>Wow, one whole app!!! Awesome!!! /sarcasm

>Can't wait to see all the excitement when they have to re-hack those "apps", when
>Apple and AT&T break them with the next software update...

Freakout, is all you have - iphone - at a base - is better than any POS offerings.

Apple and third parties are working to improve the device...while my is slowly releasing bug fixes...

When Apple releases a proper SDK, what will you do? Start hack writing for iphoneinfocenter - LMFAO!

'When' - the iPhone mantra
freakout @ 7/31/2007 6:36:13 PM # Q
When Apple releases a proper SDK, I'll give the iPhone much more serious consideration for as my next mobile device. But they haven't, and it's possible they won't for quite some time. See this post for a more detailed explanation of why that's the case: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9491/#134990.

But apart from apps, the iPhone is still missing a few essentials. Like a freaking hang up button. Oh wait, I forgot, it's revolutionary!! :-
Anyways, I'm off to copy-and-paste text on my Treo. Because I can.

P.S. I'd rather take a refreshing hydrochloric acid shower than take up writing for an Apple-focused site. Of all the various breeds of fanboy across the 'net, Apple fanboys are easily the most teeth-grindingly annoying. Even moreso than PS3 fanboys. And that's saying something.

P.P.S. Sure, the iPhone can do more than the Treo out-of-the-box. For $500. With contract. Minimum. To shitty carrier. With no 3G. What a deal!

RE: Palm Desktop for Vista FINALLY Released!
jca666us @ 7/31/2007 7:25:14 PM # Q
freak, the palm os mantra should be - "who cares".

When will palm os multitask?
When will the treo have 320 x 480 resolution?
When will palm innovate?

Who cares - palm is nearly dead - love your antiquated device!

Freak you're not a good enough writer for an apple site - innuendo, speculation, and rumor mongering on your part are no substitute for facts. At least, that's how real writers operate.

Continue hack writing for PIC - I'll bet you $50 that apple releases an iPhone sdk before palm gets a new palm os released for the treo.


oh dear.
freakout @ 7/31/2007 7:50:38 PM # Q
Freak you're not a good enough writer for an apple site - innuendo, speculation, and rumor mongering on your part are no substitute for facts. At least, that's how real writers operate.

Lol. If you can provide a link to my innuendos, I'd be most obliged.

Here's some facts for you:

1) iPhone is overpriced.
2) iPhone is locked to one carrier only.
3) iPhone is such a revolutionary phone, it doesn't even have a hang up button.
4) iPhone is non-expandable. No extra memory for you!
5) iPhone is not 3G.
6) iPhone has no MMS.
7) iPhone has a crippled Bluetooth system. No Bluetooth GPS, keyboards etc for you!
8) iPhone.... oh, screw this, I'm bored now. Last word is all yours if you want it, sweetheart.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

Reply to this comment

Hey, Ryan - if yer gonna remove the photo then...

SeldomVisitor @ 7/27/2007 12:51:19 PM # Q
...at the very least transcribe its contents first and put that in its place!

Or do that and take a photo of the transcribed contents and put THAT in its place!

[read your TreoCentral note about it just now]

Reply to this comment

Ryan - Gerome from the TreoCentral forum

Gerorne @ 7/27/2007 1:11:49 PM # Q
I'm guessing you probably read this more often then check over there. Just wanna say thanks for giving your input. That cleared up the whole thing for me.

Gerome - PDALive.com
Reply to this comment

PalmOS? Who wants it!? Not Fanboys!

SeldomVisitor @ 7/31/2007 7:53:39 AM # Q
There are those who say PalmOS on top of Linux is a must have on the Fooleo and future "TREOs" (*).

This poll is (strongly) suggesting not:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=148771

==================

(*) When is a Treo no longer a Treo - no QWERTY keyboard? No Touchscreen? When? We already know it doesn't have to have PalmOS to be called a Treo.

Ah, more deliberate misreading. What fun!
freakout @ 7/31/2007 9:46:41 AM # Q
The poll you linked to has nothing at all to do with future Treos. It's about what people would consider essential for the Foleo. And surprise, surprise, emulation of applications specifically designed for a handheld device isn't high on the list. Shocking.

And a Treo is no longer a Treo when Palm name it something else. Wow, that was easy!

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: PalmOS? Who wants it!? Not Fanboys!
cervezas @ 7/31/2007 1:04:40 PM # Q
What Tim said.

Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily expect the next-gen Palm OS to highlight the Garnet emulation as much as it does the new developer APIs and the new capabilities they bring to users.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PalmOS? Who wants it!? Not Fanboys!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/31/2007 1:15:42 PM # Q
Lol!

In THAT case I guess I SHOULD have asked - when is PalmOS not PalmOS!?

RE: PalmOS? Who wants it!? Not Fanboys!
cervezas @ 7/31/2007 2:13:57 PM # Q
Food for thought on that subject: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8841/#135632

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PalmOS? Who wants it!? Not Fanboys!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/31/2007 2:27:12 PM # Q
Yeah, I saw that - sorta like the Apple iPhone's widgets.

Giggle.

RE: PalmOS? Who wants it!? Not Fanboys!
cervezas @ 7/31/2007 2:41:21 PM # Q
Yeah, I know... you think Palm is developing a thin client OS where everything runs in the browser. All because Bill Coleman joined the board. After all these years you really don't know much about this company at all, do you? (Or even about Bill Coleman, for that matter!)


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

Disappearing Photos

dstrauss @ 7/31/2007 11:47:08 AM # Q
By the time I got there, the "battery" picture was gone. I'm shocked they didn't demand the removal of the proof of a two year old processor as well. No more RAM (128k) and less ROM (256k) then the soon to be released HTC Kaiser PHONE, much less a terminal device like this. As my mother used to say - "You're a day late and a dollar short" If I were Palm, I'd be ashamed for a battery composed of a series of Treo batteries, but even more ashamed of a device that doesn't even use off the shelf components of a recent vintage. The Foleo is like old fish; the smell alone should put you off.

RE: Disappearing Photos
cervezas @ 7/31/2007 12:53:16 PM # Q
So, I'm curious. What current devices are people looking at that don't run Intel PXA270 out there? Looks like all the new HTC gadgets are using "embarrassing" 2 year old processors, including the Athena and the Kaiser just mentioned. Same with the iMate Ultimate 7150 (scheduled for release in Sept) and the Asus Eee that everyone here is so fond of comparing to the Foleo.

What people aren't getting about the Foleo (and it's kind of understandable, given the form factor) is that this system is designed to work very much like a PDA, not just in terms of the instant-on feature, but in terms of it being pared down for efficiency, light weight, and long battery life. I suspect that's one reason why Palm is insisting that Foleo is not a "laptop." If you can trim down Linux to be snappy on a 416MHz Bulverde processor with 128MB of RAM, that's preferable to me over a heavier system that requires a hotter processor, more RAM, and heavier, bulkier batteries. I've been forcing myself to use a WinMo Treo 750 for the last few months, and while it's a gorgeous piece of hardware it's an object lesson in the price that users pay for bloated system design. Nokia's S60 and Internet Tablet operating systems are even worse. It looks to me like the Foleo has avoided many of Microsoft's and Nokia's mistakes, which should be an encouragement to anyone who enjoys the responsiveness of Palm OS.

I'm sure there will be Foleos that are designed to offer stronger multi-media performance, but I for one will be disappointed if that comes at the expense of a heavier device or shorter battery life.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Disappearing Photos
hkklife @ 7/31/2007 1:52:00 PM # Q
Speaking of S60, David, have you heard about the NEW "version" of the Samsung i550? What was perhaps the best POS device that never was has been resurrected as a new GPS-packing smartphone running S60 but with the same i550 nameplate. WTF!?!!

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i550_gps_smartphone-news-288.php

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/07/30/samsungs-i550-brings-gps-navigation/

See, now really IS the time for Palm to resurrect the m515 & Visor Edge formfactors & branding! :-)

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Disappearing Photos
cervezas @ 7/31/2007 2:11:10 PM # Q
The Palm OS Sammy phone was the i500, not the i550. Still love that little smartphone.

Definitely with you on the idea of bringing back the m515 and Visor Edge form factors, though! :-)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Disappearing Photos
cervezas @ 7/31/2007 3:18:18 PM # Q
hkkwrote: "i550...the best POS device that never was..."

Oh yeah, never mind... I see what you were saying! http://www.brighthand.com/?newsID=2003

I doubt it would have surpassed the i500 in any case. No Graffiti area. No battery sipping 66MHz Dragonball. No rock solid OS 4.1.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Disappearing Photos
PenguinPowered @ 7/31/2007 10:20:34 PM # Q
[quote]So, I'm curious. What current devices are people looking at that don't run Intel PXA270 out there?[/quote]

Sharp, Sony, Moto, Nokia, Danger, and others all have TI OMAP phones on the market. Moto has a few frescale phones. There are a couple of windows mobile phones running Qualcomm chipsets, iirc.

I would expect Marvell chip sets to start showing up in products in a year, but before then I'd expect most of the PXA phones to be 270.


May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: Disappearing Photos
hkklife @ 7/31/2007 11:39:42 PM # Q
I used a Samsung global CDMA/GSM hybrid phone that looked nearly identical in appearance to the i550 for a while back in '04 & '05. SCH-A790, I believe it was. I have to admit that was probably the most solid feeling, best built cellphone I've ever had.

So I would have had high hopes for the i550 in a similar formfactor & build quality.

The 66mhz Dragonball was a sadly underutilized (appeared about a year too late on the market IMO) CPU for its time. I'd like to have seen Palm use it in the m515 or at least in the Tungsten W.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Reply to this comment

WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier

SeldomVisitor @ 8/7/2007 9:17:26 AM # Q
But what the heck does THIS imply!?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/7/2007 9:20:42 AM # Q
== "...Palm and Wind River will work to incorporate Wind River's
== Platform for Consumer Devices, Linux Edition to the Foleo over
== the coming months..."

!!!

Did PALM dump it's existing Linux implementation!?

=======

If so, and I'm not sure I believe it's so, then maybe Yet Another Internal Team has been decimated...

RE: WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier
freakout @ 8/7/2007 9:24:31 AM # Q
There have been rumour of Palm and WindRiver's collaboration for quite some time. I seem to remember Beersie talking about it last year.

Thanks for the tip, SV. If Kris or Ryan don't beat me to the punch i'll write this up for a news item tomorrow.

RE: WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier
SeldomVisitor @ 8/7/2007 9:29:36 AM # Q
Yes, searching PiC for "wind river" turns up numerous PALM/Wind River "rumor" hits.

RE: WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier
SeldomVisitor @ 8/7/2007 9:44:12 AM # Q
According to this:

== "...Wind River said that over the coming months, it will work
== with Palm to port the Foleo's software stack to Wind River's
== Platform for Consumer Devices, Linux Edition. Thus, although
== apparently not actually developed using Wind River Linux, the
== Foleo could be Wind River's biggest design win yet in the
== consumer electronics space..."

-- http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6844359014.html

PALM =has= dumped their existing Linux Fooleo implementation and jumped onto WindRiver's instead.

Note - I have zero idea of the veracity of that article but the "over the coming months" part of the PR-fluff would suggest it is true.

RE: WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier
SeldomVisitor @ 8/7/2007 9:54:43 AM # Q
Just to clarify that last post of mine, read it as:

== "According to this...:"
==
== ...
==
== ...PALM has"

I have no personal information about PALM's decisions other than what I've read.


RE: WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier
SeldomVisitor @ 8/7/2007 10:09:38 AM # Q
PALM has their own PR-fluff out now about this.

RE: WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier
hkklife @ 8/7/2007 10:22:00 AM # Q
SV;

That exact bit threw me for a loop as well.

Right now my initial gut feeling is that the Fooleo's launch date is gonna slip. It'll probably arrive in November with a $100 permanent price drop and a much more robust suite of bundled software.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier
hkklife @ 8/7/2007 10:27:27 AM # Q
I believe Beersie first droppped hints/theories/predictions of this as a possible collaboration back in March '06ish and the rumors of a PLinux featurephone powered by WindRiver date back to Oct '05:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8133/rumor-palm-to-release-a-linux-feature-phone/



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier
SeldomVisitor @ 8/7/2007 10:55:50 AM # Q
Nah - searching for "wind river" on PiC returns hits as early as late 2005.

RE: WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier
SeldomVisitor @ 8/7/2007 10:56:41 AM # Q
Oopsie - read too fast and missed that second date! Nevermind!

'In the next few years, up to 60% of Motorola's handset'...
SeldomVisitor @ 8/7/2007 11:28:17 AM # Q
== "...portfolio is expected to be based on Linux..."

-- http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070807/aqtu142.html?.v=12

RE: WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier
cervezas @ 8/7/2007 3:58:43 PM # Q
In the next few years, up to 60% of Motorola's handset'...portfolio is expected to be based on Linux..."

Moto's been saying that for almost as long as I can remember.

OK, maybe it's only been two or three years. In their defense, they *are* selling a huge number of Linux "smartphones" (really feature phones) in the Asian market. These aren't phones with open platforms that you can install native apps on, mind you, but they're a little more open than the iPhone since you can at least download and install Java apps and games.

As for the whole Wind River thing, this is about kernel and low-level kernel services, tools and developer support. Wind River's "Platform for Consumer Devices" is not an operating system, it's a platform on which a company like Palm can build an operating system with nicely-integrated tools for both system and application developers. I've been saying all along that Palm, like Motorola, ACCESS, and others before them would partner with a commercial Linux vendor to deliver the low-level parts of the system, rather than doing these in-house. Part of the advantage of Linux that there *is* this kind of layered ecosystem now.

The Wind River Workbench is the piece that will most interest application developers, because it's a state-of-the-art Eclipse-based IDE for embedded Linux development--the kind of thing that would be a huge waste of time for Palm to reinvent. The distro and toolchain have been under development at Wind River concurrently with the development of Foleo, so even the 1.0 version wasn't available at the time Palm started this project. I expect that Palm has known for some time that whatever Linux distro they built on at the start would be updated to the latest and greatest commercial Linux distro from a partner like Wind River or MontaVista near release time. If you want to say for dramatic effect that they are "dumping" the old distro they started with you could do that, but I'd be willing to bet that that distro, too, was something they licensed from a vendor back then, not something that Palm developed themselves and are now "dumping" (along with the internal team) in disappointment and disgust.

In other words, there's nothing to talk about here except that Foleo is going to be backed by the best kernel support and developer tools available today. But hey, it was an opportunity to slither in with some nice, baseless innuendo about Palm's incompetence, and you took it, SV. Good for you!

Sorry that not everyone who reads your FUD is as ill-informed as you had hoped they would be.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: WindRiver is Foleo's Linux supplier
twrock @ 8/7/2007 10:08:57 PM # Q
But hey, it was an opportunity to slither in with some nice, baseless innuendo about Palm's incompetence, and you took it, SV.

Hey, why change the pattern now? It's worked so well up to this point. ;-)


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
Reply to this comment
Start a New Comment Thread Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass: