Foleo Processor Details Revealed?

Rumor: A Flickr user has posted a new series of new pictures of the Palm Foleo in action at a recent 'sneak preview'. One shot in particular reveals what could be definitive information on the processor type and speed, which Palm has yet to officially declare.

Foleo processorThis image of the Foleo's info screen seems to indicate the Foleo will use a PXA27x applications processor, listed as "XScale-Bulverde rev 7 (v5l)”. The same screenshot shows a 415.33 MHz CPU clock speed. This is the same line of processors found in the Palm Treo series and a number of other smartphones on the market today.

It is not clear if the chip itself is limited to 415MHz, as the PXA27x series of chips include SpeedStep technology, which allows the operating system to control the the processor speed based on load to save power. This line of chips was originally released in early 2004. It is available in four different clock speeds: 312 MHz, 416 MHz, 520 MHz and 624 MHz.

Another interesting picture from the same photoset shows the underside of the Foleo with the battery cover removed. The battery is comprised of 5 treo battery cells linked together and runs almost the full width of the unit. The battery compartment also hides a Compact Flash slot for additional user storage.

The Foleo's final specifications are still unclear as Palm has not announced the it's official final configuration. The Foleo is expected to be available later this summer for $499, the latest rumor sets its release date around August 22nd.

Thanks to the Voice of Reason for the tip.

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FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/23/2007 11:17:57 PM # Q
The fact that the FOOLeo is using ancient hardware gives creedence to the theory that the FOOLeo hardware has actually been around for 2 years, waiting for the software development to be finalized. Unfortunately for Palm, the competition does not move in slow motion.

But one bonus someone elswhere mentioned: this suggests PalmLinux will actually be able to run well on plain Jane, current-generation Treo hardware (assuming Palm limits multitasking like on the FOOLeo). Palm just needs to get the software right.


TVoR




------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/7864/#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8060/#111823

RE: FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 6:08:30 AM # Q
> ...Palm just needs to get the software right...

You forgot the smilie.

RE: FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 11:09:37 AM # Q
What an interesting request outta TVoR!

Did attendees at these previews sign NDAs?

If not...


No one posting at Treocentral said anything about signing NDAs, so I doubt it. I assume Palm expected the fanboys attending these FOOLeo pimping sessions would all be cheap drunks and blindly GUSH about the FOOLeo pigtop laptop all over the Internet the next day.

I'm not sure why Palm is worried at this stage of the game. They only had - what 3 YEARS to sort the FOOLeo out. At this stage of the game it's too late to be wringing their hands over what woulda, shoulda, coulda...


TVoR

Foleo Retail Price Musings
hkklife @ 7/24/2007 11:41:08 AM # Q
BestBuy has been specifically mentioned as a retail parnter (in fact, the only specific non-Palm partner referenced by name) in Palm's Fooleo sales strategy.

Now, (as of this past weekend) BestBuy are one of the new nationwide retail chains still carrying the remaining Palm PDA line (Z22, E2, TX)--albeit at prices about 3-5% HIGHER than Palm's MSRP.

Assuming this oddball strategy continues going forward, expect the Fooleo to cost more from BestBuy than it will from Palm.com or from a Palm retail store/kiosk. Peanuts, yes, but once you hit $600, those extra $20-$30 tacked onto the pricetag hurt the Fooleo's chances even more (as if the $399 Acer Pentium dual-core notebook running Vista on sale a few rows over at the very same BestBuy wasn't damaging enough!)

As a wise man once said, "Whatta game!"

P.S. Remember how the T|E2 launched at $220 but was quickly dropped down to $200 (I think Brighthand or someone even wrote that Palm told them that the price would drop once the initial sales rush wore off)? I'd expect the Fooleo's $100 rebate to, upon expiration, become a permanent price drop. I think (6 months from now) Palm will mainly try to push mail-in rebate types of promotions like "Get a Foleo for $199.99 with the purchase of any new Treo and activation of service from ________!"

This STILL isn't the purely stand-alone, retail-oriented, no ties to carrier-branded devices whatsoever, mass-market device that Palm needs right now. Palm NEEDS a device that they sell to the crowd who do not want to see "Palm" and "wireless carrier" anywhere in the same sentence.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?
joad @ 7/24/2007 12:06:00 PM # Q
They don't call them "Worst Buy" without cause.

Terrible customer service, violent management, and the prices are usually retail or above. I like to visit there in the winters (when the carnivals are in hibernation) to see the freak show of "carnies" hawking extended warranties and people foolishly spending their money there.

Thankfully the internet has created choices for people stuck in areas where Worst Buy has eliminated any reasonable competition. Even if they had a full lineup of Palm hardware I wouldn't give them any money except if in desperate need of parts with absolutely no other choice.



WAY-OT: RE: FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 12:09:47 PM # Q
I visited BestBuy yet again the other day (think 'cause Kidlet had been promised a DVD or something) and was, a-GAIN, struck by how NOT "Best" BestBuy was for all things electronic.

I regularly get MWave and NewEgg SPAM (due to building Yet Another PC with their parts), now Crutchfield, too.

All HIGHLY recommended.

Smiley located! Film at 11!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 4:21:52 PM # Q
You forgot the smilie.

;-O

RE: FoleoLinux + PalmOS emulator = PalmLinux?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 4:23:33 PM # Q
Terrible customer service, violent management, and the prices are usually retail or above. I like to visit there in the winters (when the carnivals are in hibernation) to see the freak show of "carnies" hawking extended warranties and people foolishly spending their money there.

Bwahahahaha!

Reply to this comment

Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/23/2007 11:24:17 PM # Q
http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=148352


Some poeople that went to the FOOLeo previews Palm has staged over the past month report MULTIPLE episodes where there are "issues" with the FOOLeo pairing with Palm-supplied Treos. 3 years of FOOLeo development and the syncing feature STILL isn't ready for prime time?

W W B D ?
(What Would Beersy Do?)

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 6:11:04 AM # Q
> ...What Would Beersy Do?

According to him in a "veiled comment", he signed up quite some time ago.

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 11:14:50 AM # Q
> ...What Would Beersy Do?

According to him in a "veiled comment", he signed up quite some time ago.

I believe Beersy is currently developing an app that scales directly from the Treo to the FOOLeo/desktop. You won't hear him EVER say anything negative about a device that he hopes will put food on his table. As someone once said: "Be careful out there!"

TVoR

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
cervezas @ 7/24/2007 1:11:28 PM # Q
Veiled? My exact words were "I for one am *very* enthusiastic, both as a user and developer."

I make a very nice living as a mobile application developer. I'm not announcing or promising any products for Foleo at this time. The "if" and "when" will depend on other irons I've got in the fire, and Pikesoft's main business has always been developing applications for other companies. I also wouldn't see much benefit in pre-announcing an application in any case. But the fact that I or any other developer decides to develop for the Foleo shows that they are willing to put real money where their mouth is.

As for you guys, you aren't even willing to put your real name on a PIC comment (not that I can really blame you, heh!)


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 1:23:36 PM # Q
Now:

> ...I'm not announcing or promising any products for
> Foleo at this time...

but earlier:

> ...Foleo is a great wide-open opportunity for developers, Pikesoft
> in particular. Can't promise anything just yet, but I think you'll
> be hearing an announcement or two from us later in the year...

I would have changed my mind, too, after finding out more about the Fooleo.

Giggle.

Still crazy
cervezas @ 7/24/2007 3:42:57 PM # Q
I would have changed my mind, too, after finding out more about the Fooleo.

No change of mind at all. I said I wasn't promising Foleo app announcements from Pikesoft before, and I said I'm not promising them now.

But from my perspective the system and specs on the Foleo seem pretty spot-on for what it needs to do. I'd rather have the good battery life and that big bright screen than a hotter processor.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 4:20:22 PM # Q
No change of mind at all. I said I wasn't promising Foleo app announcements from Pikesoft before, and I said I'm not promising them now.

As someone once said:

"Giggle."

Tee hee!

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
mikecane @ 7/24/2007 4:30:47 PM # Q
>>>As for you guys, you aren't even willing to put your real name on a PIC comment

I am. The Flopeo still sucks ass nevertheless.

Return to earth from your trip already.

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
cervezas @ 7/24/2007 4:46:13 PM # Q
The Flopeo still sucks ass

Shhhh... that feature hasn't been announced. I expect you're going to love it, though, Mike.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 4:52:37 PM # Q
Cool - I'll quote you officially then - On Yahoo someone was touting your company's "blog" as a source of learned poop on the Fooleo.

Now I'll post, with link, that you think the Fooleo sucks ass.

Giggle.

Oh no!!!!! Be careful David!!!!!
freakout @ 7/24/2007 5:19:16 PM # Q
Uh-oh. SV is going to post on the internet. With a link, no less!!!

Pikesoft might as well just close its doors now. However will you recover from the crippling damage this malicious act will cause? (swoon)

Giggle giggle, tee-hee!

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: Is Palm looking for last-minute FOOLeo beta testers? W T F???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 6:37:39 PM # Q
> ...With a link, no less!...

Of course - nothing means squat out here unless you can confirm it with an information source outside your control.

SV, the Busy Little Bee
cervezas @ 7/24/2007 8:22:06 PM # Q
nothing means squat out here unless you can confirm it with an information source outside your control.

Glad I could give you some squat to link to then. I really admire your far-reaching and selfless mission to educate the world about these critical sources of information, SeldomVisitor.

You can link to that bit of information, too, if it pleases you.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

416mhz. Video.

VampireLestat @ 7/24/2007 12:33:43 AM # Q
I hope CorePlayer will be written the ground up for Foleo.

At 416 mhz, best we can hope for is 320x480 30fps.
Which would be 'ok', for now.

Question is... will the Linux OS footprint be much heavier than Palm OS 5.
If it is equal or lighter (or more optimized), then video will be 'ok' at 480x320 or maybe even a bit more.

they really should put an Intel graphics coprocessor

RE: 416mhz. Video.
freakout @ 7/24/2007 2:38:45 AM # Q
Rather than Coreplayer, I'd like to see Palm actually come up with their own decent media playing software. It doesn't have to be anything flashy; it doesn't need special features; it just needs to be compatible a broad range of media formats and stick to Palm's (usually nice) simple UI principles.

There'd still be the option of purchasing more fully-featured and configurable media programs ala` pTunes or Coreplayer if the user so desired. But for Palm to not include any kind of out-of-the-box media functionality (apart from a simple photo viewer) is completely insane for a $600 device.

They keep pushing the "but it's not a laptop, it's an email/document machine" line, but I find myself becoming more and more convinced of the idea that they've had to rush it out before its ready. If Palm shipped Foleo with a decent built-in software package, then it could actually could be the "laptop replacement" that people have been clamoring for. And we do want it: who wants all the clunkiness of a desktop interface while on-the-go? The idea of bringing PDA sensibilities to the laptop is excellent one; but Palm appear to have made some serious mistakes in bringing it to fruition.

Here's hoping Foleo 2.0 is a stronger effort. As it is, they're limiting themselves to quite a small niche. Hopefully it won't be so small that they just abandon the idea altogether, ala` Lifedrive.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: 416mhz. Video.
SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 6:20:08 AM # Q
> ...I find myself becoming more and more convinced of the idea
> that they've had to rush it out before its ready...

When "Member of the Executive, but titleless" Jeff Hawkins says DURING the very-public introduction of the Fooleo to Walt Mossberg and Kate Swisher:

== "...If I could do it again I'd put a faster processor in it..."

you could probably lay money on the line that the device, after three years, was indeed "rushed" out.

RE: 416mhz. Video.
joad @ 7/24/2007 12:10:37 PM # Q
Three years *IS* a rush for Palm. Heck, it took them a year to release their first firmware fix for the 700p attempting to address issues that should have been apparent in beta testing. I'd say they move in glacial time, but with global warming it would appear that the glaciers have the edge in speed.

Reply to this comment

kernel version...

feranick @ 7/24/2007 3:39:31 AM # Q
I am amazed of that such an old version of the kernel is used (2.4.21). The current version of the 2.4.x branch is 2.4.34. I wonder why.

I asked before this question, and as an answer I got: it's still in development. From back then, the version hasn't changed. Still in development?

RE: kernel version...
xpan @ 7/24/2007 6:27:05 AM # Q
version 2.21 is very very stable. I use it on my fedora and have no problems with it, whatsoever.

---
"home is where my computer is..."
RE: kernel version...
xpan @ 7/24/2007 6:28:58 AM # Q
... of course i meant version 2.4.21

---
"home is where my computer is..."
RE: kernel version...
pmjoe @ 7/24/2007 8:13:12 AM # Q
and most of the current open source mobile device development has moved on to 2.6 IMHO.

RE: ANCIENT kernel version in FOOLeo...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/24/2007 10:34:00 AM # Q
This again suggests how long the LifeDrive 2 FOOLeo has been ready for: Palm is ready to release it with a 4 year old kernel! (Of course maybe Palm has decided that 2.4.21 is "good enough" and it's too much of a hassle to re-integrate newer kernels into the Foleo's version of PalmLinux.)

http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/

http://www.kernel.org/


TVoR

RE: kernel version...
feranick @ 7/24/2007 5:04:32 PM # Q
The real question about the kernel is not necessarily if the 2.4.21 is good enough, but how much of the innovation that went into the later versions of the kernel were left out. I am talking about power optimization for embedded devices. With all the work Nokia is doing on the 2.6 branch and Intel is starting for the embedded Linux platform, really I keep asking myself: why is Palm simply following its own path?

BTW, the fact that the 2.4.21 is very stable on Fedora does not imply that it will be efficient on an embedded device. After all I was quite unimpressed about the battery life of the Foleo. I wonder how much of that depends on poor power optimization.

Reply to this comment

and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???

pmjoe @ 7/24/2007 8:17:51 AM # Q
They could generate more interest with a Zire 22 replacement.

RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
Timothy Rapson @ 7/24/2007 10:17:12 PM # Q
Right, I just got a refurb TE2. I would rather have bought a new Z22 or something like the E31 my wife has but with a high res screen. What I really want is a Zire 73, camera and full screen. Alas.

RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
pmjoe @ 7/26/2007 2:02:44 PM # Q
Even if Palm doesn't release another PDA, someone there with half a brain must realize by now that Palm is going to lose millions on the Foleo. None of the reviews have been positive, and I see no demand from customers. Palm, please cut your losses and cancel it! Or at least, delay, delay, delay until you can get some devices out there people actually want which run the same OS, so you might actually get some developer support.

It's like the ship is sinking, so Palm decided to go build a dock to tie it up at. They need to right the ship first.

Palm is like the poster child for how to take a company who has been given every opportunity to succeed and the management will find a way to guarantee that they'll run it into the ground.


RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/26/2007 2:19:45 PM # Q
Except for the cryptic comments made by the CFO at the last earnings call that could be suggestive of PALM getting BACK INTO handhelds (my first impression was such), I think PALM ==has==to pursue the Fooleo and its equivalents at this time - they are losing any advantage (lost already?) in the smartphone sector.

That is, disregarding handhelds, they have no (intermediate to long term) future EXCEPT Fooleos.


RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
hkklife @ 7/26/2007 3:22:00 PM # Q
No, SV, I think we can safely consider Palm totally out of handheld/PDAs in the conventional sense of the term. They will most likely drop the prices one final time on the remaining three models and try to coast through the end of the year. I could also see them droping one model (maybe the E2?) and consolidating the two remaining models at the $79.99 & $199.99 pricepoints just to maintain a toehold on their retail presence until the Fooleo arrives.

AT BEST, assuming the Fooleo ends up with stronger sales out of the gate than we are expecting, I could forsee Palm releasing one or two spin-offs of the Fooleo architecture: The "fullsize" original Fooleo could be joined by a smaller clamshell Windows CE-sized device (no CF slot, video-out etc), and possibly a larger tablet-oriented device (Samsung Q1-sized perhaps?).

I think that the Treo line will continue along essentially changed for at least the next year, with the higher-end Treos running WM6 and the midrange and low-end Treos running WinMob Standard & various permutations of FrankenGarnet.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
SeldomVisitor @ 7/26/2007 4:15:37 PM # Q
I am of two minds on the "out of handhelds" thought - those CFO comments (discussed somewhere around PiC already) could be taken a couple different ways, I guess. I took them - and may still take them - as to suggest that at least the CFO thinks there is a possibility that the profitable handheld sector may be worth considering anew rather than dropping.

RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
pmjoe @ 7/27/2007 4:33:03 PM # Q
I guess the thing to me, and for anyone who hasn't handled one ... the iPhone is essentially where Palm ought to be with PDAs right now. Beautiful screen, light/right feel, graphically appealing, combo of Bluetooth, WiFi and cellular, advanced input techniques, etc. ... but the thing that pulls it all together is OS X underneath. Apple has not gotten it perfect yet either, so there is certainly room for Palm in the market. Palm has needed a new PDA/smartphone OS for years, yet instead of putting resources into that, they develop a new OS for a one-off, low power laptop. Maintaining an OS is not a cheap affair either.

If Palm is going to get their act together, they need announce that the Foleo is part of an advanced mobile OS strategy to have a consistent OS across multiple Palm handheld/mobile devices (Treos/PDAs in particular). If Palm starts letting developers write apps for this hi-res, mouse pointer-based interface, having developers take those back to smaller screens and touch/button input is going to be a much bigger hurdle.

RE: and hasn't Palm cancelled this yet???
cervezas @ 7/27/2007 7:20:08 PM # Q
Palm has needed a new PDA/smartphone OS for years, yet instead of putting resources into that, they develop a new OS for a one-off

I am quite sure that Foleo is not a one-off, and it is a matter of public record that its development hasn't been exclusive of smartphone OS development at Palm.
If Palm is going to get their act together, they need announce that the Foleo is part of an advanced mobile OS strategy to have a consistent OS across multiple Palm handheld/mobile devices (Treos/PDAs in particular). If Palm starts letting developers write apps for this hi-res, mouse pointer-based interface, having developers take those back to smaller screens and touch/button input is going to be a much bigger hurdle.

Probably. But not necessarily. B-) I like the question that underlies your comment: is there a way for an application to be written so that the same code can run on the large and small screen and render a device-appropriate user experience on each? I happen to believe there is.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

The photo(s) of the specs are disappearing....

SeldomVisitor @ 7/24/2007 8:41:17 AM # Q
== "...My colleague wanted to pass on that he was removing
== the sharing of a certain photo - it apparently caused a
== bit of a stir at Palm..."

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1315077&postcount=61

Someone better transcribe them before they're all gone.

And someone who cares should ask PALM why they are SO anal about secrecy like this?

They are shooting themselves in the foot...or head.

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