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Reminder: webOS Development Webcast This Wednesday

Palm is holding a webOS development webcast this Wednesday, Feb. 25 at 10 am Pacific (1pm Eastern). The free webinar will offer developers a preview of the webOS operating system and development environment, followed by a Q&A session.

The event will be hosted by Mitch Allen, who is vice president and software chief technology officer at Palm, Inc. Mr. Allen is also the author of the recently released intro chapter of the webOS development book.

From the site:

In this live, online event, Mitch Allen, Palm's Software CTO and a member of the Palm webOS(tm) design team, will recap the material included in the introductory chapter of "Palm webOS: Developing Applications in JavaScript Using the Palm Mojo(tm) Framework," a joint collaboration announced this week by Palm and O'Reilly, and will give you a preview into application development with the Mojo SDK. This is a great opportunity to hear an insider's perspective on webOS development and get a glimpse into the development environment and toolset for this breakthrough mobile web platform.

"Palm webOS is unlike any mobile platform available today," said Mitch Allen, vice president and software chief technology officer, Palm, Inc. "Because it leverages several industry-standard web technologies, including CSS, HTML and JavaScript, it enables them to build native JavaScript applications and provides a rich open development environment that's familiar to tens of millions of web developers. I'm excited to be working with O'Reilly to show the developer community just how easy and satisfying it is to develop applications for webOS."

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Grafitti in WebOS

sadams @ 2/24/2009 7:48:58 AM # Q
Hi,
I would like to know about the status of Graffiti in WebOS.
Have posted in the forum here (do people here still use the forums? - looks kinda deserted these days) too with some context:
ref: http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34898

Does anyone here know something about the future of Graffiti in WebOS?
Steve.

===========
Steve Adams
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RE: Grafitti in WebOS
SeldomVisitor @ 2/24/2009 8:53:58 AM # Q
Fingertips are large compared to stylus tips.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
crmealey @ 2/24/2009 8:54:29 AM # Q
I can't find anything on Graffiti for the Palm Pre. However, there is no stylus, so it would make sense that there wouldn't be graffiti. That being said, there are people who have made graffiti type apps for the iPhone as well as stylus's (that I guess you keep in your pocket), so somebody will probably do the same thing for the Pre.

What's the want for graffiti anyway?

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
Gekko @ 2/24/2009 9:11:24 AM # Q

no. it's 2009. move on and stop clinging to the past.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
Ryan @ 2/24/2009 9:44:31 AM # Q
Capacitative touch screens (which the Pre and iPhone use) do not work well for pen-input since it generally requires human skin to activate.

All of the Palm products pre-Pre have used resistive touch screens.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
bhartman34 @ 2/24/2009 10:00:27 AM # Q
For what it's worth, I think the move to a capacitative touchscreen on the Pre is a mistake. Maybe it's not as big a mistake as the lack of a mini-SD slot, but it's a mistake, nonetheless.

Having a stylus gives you enough precision to do things like jot notes and draw simple diagrams. It also makes dealing with a smaller screen (smaller than the TX-style PDAs, at least) more palatable, since you can touch the screen more precisely. (One of the things I've noticed on TealOS is that it's a lot easier moving the cards around with the Centro's stylus than it is with my finger.)

I've been weaning myself off the stylus since I got my Centro last year, so it's not a tragedy that they've switched to a capacitative screen, but I do think it's a move in the wrong direction. It's like moving from a pen and paper to finger-painting.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
sadams @ 2/24/2009 10:29:46 AM # Q

Interesting points on the capacitative vs resistive touch screens - i hadn't been paying attention to that - I have learned something :-)

re: "like moving from a pen and paper to finger-painting"
Yes - i agree and that's a nice analogy.
for some things finger-painting is fine (I always have done that on all my Palm devices over the last 10+ years) - but for *writing* it's not great.


re: no. it's 2009. move on and stop clinging to the past
in 1999 I didn't want to type on a "daft little keyboard" - and i still don't want to.
I don't mind if you do... but I (still) think it's inefficient and clumsy and Graffiti with a stylus is better (for me) :-)
So losing it is a step backwards to Psion's and stuff pre-palmos/graffiti.

re: What's the want for graffiti anyway?
I already said...:
"Have posted in the forum here (do people here still use the forums? - looks kinda deserted these days) too with some context:
ref: http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34898"

wasn't that clear ?????

Thanks for the comments - especially the helpful ones :-)

Cheers, Steve.

===========
Steve Adams
===========

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
SeldomVisitor @ 2/24/2009 10:31:22 AM # Q
Notice that all the (the one?) copy-n-paste demos on the Pre have (1) been performed painfully slow and (2) have involved text (only) on a single line (only).

There's a reason for that.

Fingertips are indeed big.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
freakout @ 2/24/2009 12:24:20 PM # Q
^^ Perhaps if you owned or used a Palm device, SV, you'd realise how stupid that line of attack sounds.

I use copy and paste on my tiny-screened Centro with my fingers all the goddamn time and it's a piece of cake. Not only does Pre have a bigger, finger-friendly capacitive touchscreen, but it's flush as well which will let your fingers go right past the edge of the screen. Which means it will be an even bigger piece of cake on Pre.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
SeldomVisitor @ 2/24/2009 2:06:53 PM # Q
You don't have a clue.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
freakout @ 2/25/2009 11:07:25 AM # Q
Thanks for the enlightened argument as always, SV. BTW, I'm still waiting for the explanation of how copy-and-paste creates a security hole on the iPhone?

Giggle. Chortle. Tee-hee. Snicker. Snort. Guffaw. etc

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
SeldomVisitor @ 2/25/2009 11:16:47 AM # Q
You apparently aren't thinking and still haven't got a clue what I was talking about, nor know the difference between a Centro and a Pre.

Elsewhere I supplied a link to a Palm video and Palm comment about copy-n-paste.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
freakout @ 2/25/2009 11:29:15 AM # Q
...and still haven't got a clue what I was talking about

I frequently don't have a clue what you're talking about, SV, because you post nebulous wink-wink-nudge-nudge rubbish with nothing to back it up.

But rather than make me stream a half-hour video in order to hear two comments, why not just cut out the middleman and quote directly? You sure make it sound like you've found a smoking gun! :)

P.S. It's a bit rich telling me I don't understand the difference between a Centro and a Pre, when you have never owned a Palm device yourself. (Or even used one recently, from what I can tell.) Why are you so interested in Palm, again...?

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
SeldomVisitor @ 2/25/2009 11:41:34 AM # Q
You haven't got a clue.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
freakout @ 2/25/2009 11:49:05 AM # Q
Well clue me in then, big fella! I'm waiting! :)
RE: Grafitti in WebOS
SeldomVisitor @ 2/25/2009 12:25:34 PM # Q
Grid granularity.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
freakout @ 2/25/2009 12:40:22 PM # Q
Oh! (smacks forehead) Well that explains everything! :
RE: Grafitti in WebOS
SeldomVisitor @ 2/25/2009 1:08:41 PM # Q
Yes, in THIS thread it does.

And since you haven't figured that out yet, you remain without a clue.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
freakout @ 2/25/2009 1:23:32 PM # Q
Of course I'm without a clue. As would be anybody else reading this BS. Because you have explained nothing! I know what grid granularity is. How does this relate to the merits of Pre's vs. Centro's touchscreens, and in turn what effect does it have on the selection of text with your fingers?

(And how does copy-and-paste create a security hole on the iPhone? STILL waiting on that one, SV.)

Perhaps you should just put up or shut up? But that would be too much to ask, wouldn't it.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
SeldomVisitor @ 2/25/2009 1:46:25 PM # Q
You haven't got a clue.

Or perhaps you should post BEFORE drinking.

RE: Grafitti in WebOS
freakout @ 2/25/2009 1:57:30 PM # Q
You haven't got a clue.

That's why I'm asking you simple, direct questions, SV, so you can edumacate me.

You don't seem to have any answers.

Funny that!

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Live webcast

Ryan @ 2/25/2009 10:09:05 AM # Q
Is anyone able to get into this now?

I've been stuck waiting for the java applet to load for the past 15 minutes!

RE: Live webcast
SeldomVisitor @ 2/25/2009 10:11:06 AM # Q
Yeah, I'm in - took quite awhile - I finally killed the Firefox attempt and went with IE. Nice windowed presentation environment, IMHO, after the agonizing wait...

RE: Live webcast
Ryan @ 2/25/2009 10:16:24 AM # Q
I'm in now too, had to use the dial-in for audio.
RE: Live webcast
SeldomVisitor @ 2/25/2009 11:13:56 AM # Q
Not a whole lot shown, just a few hints at previously-written but undisclosed "APIs", though I'd almost call them Style Sheets.

The demo part of the presentation consisted of editting some files and hitting refresh in a HTML-"browser" window to show the effects of the edits.

No "whens" mentioned and they didn't even overtly acknowledge the questions that had "whens" in them - such as "When is flash coming?". The "chat" window had lots of "when" questions...

RE: Live webcast
Ryan @ 2/25/2009 12:08:06 PM # Q
yeah, there weren't a lot of new details presented, but it was interesting. They will post the thing online in the next day or so for anyone that missed it.

The biggest reveal was some of the service api's and code behind designing the scenes and such. All in all, still looks quite promising for developers.

RE: Live webcast
SeldomVisitor @ 2/26/2009 3:55:17 AM # Q
The SDK for sure is not ready for prime time:

http://discussion.treocentral.com/1562638-post112.html

It's gonna be awhile.

RE: Live webcast
freakout @ 2/26/2009 1:16:45 PM # Q
^^ Hang on. You're linking that unless a user has chosen to open an app, it's... not open?

Shit man, sounds like Mojo might have to be delayed years to get that fixed. Palm are doomed!!!

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Is that gonna fly?

SeldomVisitor @ 2/26/2009 5:43:13 AM # Q
"Developers - if your application uses The Cloud you can have proprietary private code on the server(s) in The Cloud. If your application is standalone your proprietary code is open sourced."

Have I got that wrong?

RE: Is that gonna fly?
akalefty @ 2/26/2009 10:22:43 AM # Q
If you haven't got it wrong, someone's not thought things through terribly carefully...

RE: Is that gonna fly?
SeldomVisitor @ 2/26/2009 10:29:30 AM # Q
Palm has said quite a bit about applications. IMHO, they have totally stressed The Cloud as where it's at.

Unfortunately, I can't find it but I could swear I actually read a comment by a Palm employee about server-side/client-side differences wherein it was essentially acknowledged that client-side code was...open. Sorry I can't be more specific so take this paragraph with a pound of salt.

[the code on the page you're looking at RIGHT now is open - right click, "View Source" or whatever your browser says for the same functionality; might not be QUITE that easy under WebOS but it will amount to the same thing]


RE: Is that gonna fly?
akalefty @ 2/26/2009 10:53:57 AM # Q
"Open", unfortunately, is a heavily overloaded term; it doesn't necessarily mean "made available under a reciprocal/strong copyleft open source license"...

RE: Is that gonna fly?
SeldomVisitor @ 2/26/2009 11:14:53 AM # Q
Yeah, I'm just goin' with the flow - comments elsewhere on the same topic.

Let's say "fully revealed, visible, copyable" instead of "open", okay?

RE: Is that gonna fly?
freakout @ 2/26/2009 1:12:52 PM # Q
Mitch Allen said in the Q&A that this was a big concern of his, and they'd have "guidance" for people making client-side apps when they came out with the SDK.

Did you miss that bit? Sure forgot to mention it.

RE: Is that gonna fly?
bhartman34 @ 2/27/2009 1:11:17 PM # Q
Just because the Pre uses HTML 5 for its apps, that doesn't mean that the apps will necessarily be open (as in, contain viewable code). If the Pre has a JVM (or at least allows one to be installed) you could create a webpage that simply calls the Java app. And I'm sure there are other ways to have compiled code run on the Pre, as well, if Palm implements it that way.


RE: Is that gonna fly?
SeldomVisitor @ 2/27/2009 1:14:42 PM # Q
Java is not Javascript.

RE: Is that gonna fly?
SeldomVisitor @ 2/27/2009 1:20:57 PM # Q
BTW - PALm reiterated that client-side code was not 'secret" by poitning to the webcast and saying "We addressed that". See the link I made in the comment about "all apps are signed apps".

RE: Is that gonna fly?
akalefty @ 2/28/2009 10:00:15 AM # Q
Heh. That's going to be real popular with developers, I suspect.

So, if you want to keep your app proprietary, it has to live in "the cloud"... Whose cloud? Palm's? Nice. They can try to charge developers and users rent.

In other developments, it apparently isn't possible to give away an iPhone in Japan. I guess that explains why I never see 'em: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501927,00.html

Also, Apple inexplicably trusts its developers more than Google trusts theirs: http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/02/26/apple-killed-paid-apps-unlockeddeveloper-iphones-google-android/

RE: Is that gonna fly?
twrock @ 2/28/2009 4:31:23 PM # Q
In other developments, it apparently isn't possible to give away an iPhone in Japan.

I've seen a lot of iPhone advertising here in Taiwan, but not one in someone's hand.

Last summer when I was in the USA and met people who had lost their jobs, gone bankrupt, lost their house, and still were all excited to show me their cool iPhones with "unlimited" plans. Sometimes I just don't understand Americans.

"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Is that gonna fly?
freakout @ 2/28/2009 5:11:14 PM # Q
There's a quote that dates back to '97 (apparently) on protecting your Javascript...

Put the source on a floppy disk and bury it in a mason jar in your back yard. Make sure you delete all references to it from your system. To be extra sure, bury it blindfolded at night so you can't remember where it is in case foreign spies try to beat the location out of you.

Of course, you could write it as a Java Applet to make it tougher to figure out, but then, if you knew how to do that you'd probably also be able to write something really worth protecting...

Jeff

PS: The mason jar trick works well to protect your .GIF files from being downloaded too...

http://classicasp.aspfaq.com/general/how-do-i-protect-my-client-side-javascript-code.html

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