MobileInfocenter

Palm Sticks to Foleo Summer Release Date

Palm Foleo Release DatePalm is indirectly denying the latest rumor report that the Foleo's release date has been delayed. A Palm spokesperson has told PalmInfocenter that the company is still standing by its original timeframe originally announced back in May, saying "U.S. availability for the Palm Foleo mobile companion will begin this summer."

If indeed correct, this would technically give Palm until September 23rd to make the device available. It will debut for $499, after a $100 mail-in rebate. As noted in our previous post, select developers have already received working Foleo models in retail packaging under NDA.

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price

joad @ 8/24/2007 4:05:58 PM # Q
"$499, after a $100 mail-in rebate." In other (more honest) words: Retail $599 with a $100 rebate offer available.

Sooooo... it's basically $600.00 up front, then you spend the next 2 months or so fighting with a rebate fulfillment house to get back $100.00 of your money to get the price they keep hyping.

$499.00 seemed quite high for what this is.... but in discussions it should be referred to as a $599.00 device if that's their *actual* valuation. For me, that makes it a no-brainer to put that $$$ into a better laptop rather than take a chance on a new device (from company that has no history with such a product) with (at best) limited functionality. It's a $600 flash-based crippled laptop, running a proprietary and limited OS, with a nice keyboard and pretty casing. And if you want to pay your cell carrier the $40/month for tethering (or risk violating your TOS by using a hack to defeat metering) you can use your Treo to get on the IntarWeb.

Couldn't they have put 256MB into the Treo 755 before risking the company on the Fooleo (and hence risking the 755 would be the LAST Treo)...?

RE: price
TooMuch @ 8/24/2007 4:52:35 PM # Q
Then don't buy it.

RE: price
hkklife @ 8/24/2007 4:58:50 PM # Q
No, they couldn't do that to the 755p becuase IIRC FrankenGarnet is limited to a maximum main memory size of 128MB. Palm could, however, either double up the 755p's usable RAM to 128MB ala the TX or simply stick with 64MB and then an internal flash drive volume like the T5. 2 gigs would be a good compromise between capacity and cost savings, especially in light of the neutered miniSD slot that Palm saddled the 755p with.

At least the Fooleo has a fullsizse SD slot that's even been confirmed to handle SDHC cards (and it should, in theory, work with 8GB+ card capacities as well).



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: price
freakout @ 8/24/2007 8:37:16 PM # Q
Overpriced, yes. But as for the "proprietary and limited OS"... c'mon, aren't you guys at all excited that Palm has managed to create a snappy (based on the hands-on vids with seen), instant-on Linux device, with such meagre specs? There was an interview with Linux kernel developer Con Klivas, who called it quits recently. There was a great quote:

We're all aware of what became the defacto operating system standard [Windows] at the time. As a result there was no market whatsoever for hardware that didn't work within the framework of that operating system. As a defacto operating system did take over, all other operating system markets and competition failed one after the other and the hardware manufacturers found themselves marketing for an ever shrinking range of software rather than the other way around.

Hardware has since become subservient to the operating system. It started around 1994 and is just as true today 13 years later. Worse yet, all the hardware manufacturers slowly bought each other out, further shrinking the hardware choices. So now the hardware manufacturers just make faster and bigger versions of everything that has been done before. We're still plugging in faster CPUs, more RAM, bigger hard drives, faster graphics cards and sound cards just to service the operating system. Hardware driven innovation cannot be afforded by the market any more. There is no money in it. There will be no market for it. Computers are boring.

And later on:

So Linux was created to service the home desktop personal computer, and the PC is here to stay. For those who were looking for some excitement and enjoyment in using their computer, the defacto operating system just doesn't cut it. We want to tinker, we want control, we want power over everything. Or alternatively we believe in some sort of freedom or some combination of the above. So we use Linux. That is certainly how I got involved in Linux; I wanted something to use on the home desktop PC.

However, the desktop PC is crap. It's rubbish. The experience is so bloated and slowed down in all the things that matter to us. We all own computers today that were considered supercomputers 10 years ago. 10 years ago we owned supercomputers of 20 years ago.. and so on. So why on earth is everything so slow? If they're exponentially faster why does it take longer than ever for our computers to start, for the applications to start and so on? Sure, when they get down to the pure number crunching they're amazing (just encode a video and be amazed). But in everything else they must be unbelievably slower than ever.

Computers of today may be 1,000 times faster than they were a decade ago, yet the things that matter are slower.

The standard argument people give me in response is 'but they do such more these days it isn't a fair comparison'. Well, they're 10 times slower despite being 1000 times faster, so they must be doing 10,000 times as many things. Clearly the 10,000 times more things they're doing are all in the wrong place.

It's a long, detailed interview, read the rest here: http://apcmag.com/node/6735/

Instant-on is a great feature that is sorely undervalued by many. If the Foleo can match it with snappy software, on a crappy low-speed ARM and hardly and RAM, that really is an impressive achievement, and bodes well for any future handheld OS. (that's assuming, of course, Palm are going to use some version of the Foleo OS on handhelds next year)

It's overpriced for the meagre hardware it runs on, I agree. But it's innovative in a way that most hardware-driven upgrades are not. I think it deserves more respect than it's been getting. (Although Palm's... um... confused... marketing definitely doesn't help...)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

ugh, when's the edit button coming?
freakout @ 8/24/2007 8:38:52 PM # Q
(based on the hands-on vids with seen)

becomes

(based on the hands-on vids we've seen)

More coffee.

RE: price
sgiga @ 8/25/2007 1:39:48 AM # Q
Instant on is clearly underrated by most Foleo critics. Here is a video blog about instant on. (btw. How that soup he is making in any stretch of the word can be called coffe is beyond my grasp)
http://tabletblog.com/2007/07/instant-on-video-podcast.html

RE: price
LiveFaith @ 8/25/2007 2:37:02 AM # Q
Oooooooh! I love that quote Freakout.

Pat Horne
RE: price
jca666us @ 8/25/2007 8:35:19 AM # Q
>Instant-on is a great feature that is sorely undervalued by many. If the Foleo can match it with snappy
>software, on a crappy low-speed ARM and hardly any RAM, that really is an impressive achievement, and bodes
>well for any future handheld OS.

It depends - I'd hope that the OS can handle more innovative hardware designs say, for example, 512 meg., higher resolution displays, etc. etc.

If it can't, then we're not much better (aside from multitasking) than Garnet.

>(that's assuming, of course, Palm are going to use some version of the Foleo OS on handhelds next year)

I agree with that assumption, but the OS needs legs - and it needs to be intelligently extensible...no more Garnet-like hacking.

>It's overpriced for the meagre hardware it runs on, I agree.

It's overpriced because Palm didn't do any market research to see how much people would actually pay for this.

>But it's innovative in a way that most hardware-driven upgrades are not.

From a software perspective it's somewhat innovative for Palm, but that innovation is tempered by the fact that it's been long overdue.

BTW, the crappy hardware and boring form factor are stale.

This is not an exciting product.

>I think it deserves more respect than it's been getting. (Although Palm's... um... confused... marketing
>definitely doesn't help...)

Foleo got plenty of respect from people until they saw what it actually was. Now it's being seen as a sign of Palm's mismanagement.

RE: price
freakout @ 8/25/2007 12:04:55 PM # Q
It depends - I'd hope that the OS can handle more innovative hardware designs say, for example, 512 meg., higher resolution displays, etc. etc.

If it can't, then we're not much better (aside from multitasking) than Garnet.

It's Linux. A stripped-down, optimised-for-low-power-hardware-Linux, but Linux nonetheless.

I agree with that assumption, but the OS needs legs - and it needs to be intelligently extensible...no more Garnet-like hacking.

It's Linux.

From a software perspective it's somewhat innovative for Palm, but that innovation is tempered by the fact that it's been long overdue.

From every computer maker. Not just Palm.

BTW, the crappy hardware and boring form factor are stale.

You're so right. Who'd be interested in a compact, lightweight, low-power, high-res, well-built, easy-to-use, wireless laptop? Palm are insane! The company's headed straight into the gurgler, I tells ya... :-/


Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: price
rmhurdman @ 8/27/2007 12:30:25 AM # Q
Well-built? I'm guessing you've never seen or touched a foleo. Neither have I, but I know that Palm has been turning out low-quality, buggy devices for years. So before I take your word that the foleo is "well-built", you better have stress-tested it, preferably a-la ars technica.

RE: price
freakout @ 8/27/2007 4:43:42 AM # Q
From Ars Technica:

At first glance, the Foleo is fairly sexy...The Foleo's build quality was surprising for a sample unit. The keyboard had a decent feel, and the case had that rubberized soft-touch coating which gave it a slightly organic feel.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/08/10/palm-foleo--a-quick-look

Not a stress test, sure, but they're not the only ones to make such observations. From Brighthand:

Andrew Baxter from NotebookReview.com was with me, and he was pleased with the Foleo's keyboard, which is impressive as he's very demanding about such things. He said the key spacing and travel were both good...The overall build quality of the Foleo is solid, at least on the prototype I used. The casing is plastic, but that doesn't make it flimsy.

http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13139

From a Treocentral poster (probably the infamous TVoR under a new name). Came with some nice photos too:

First impression: Build quality appears to be MUCH greater than anything I've ever seen with a Palm logo on it. But it was a little bigger and definitely significantly heavier than what I had hoped/expected. The device surface has a more satiny rubberized (oxymoron?) coating than Palm's excellent Treo hard case or the new Treos. The ribbed ("for her pleasure"?) surface on the top surface of the Foleo is reminiscent of the ribbing on my ThinkPad's extended battery and contributed to making the Foleo very easy to handle.

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1312792&postcount=16

There's plenty of other such comments floating around the net.

RE: price
SeldomVisitor @ 8/30/2007 9:26:02 AM # Q
> ...Instant-on is a great feature that is sorely undervalued by many...

But "instant-on" is instant-on only for specially-designed programs. Over on TreoCentral Ben Combee has mentioned the need to re-write programs to enable instant-on; this suggests the "vast amount of free Linux software" out here will simply disallow "instant-on" or, upon sleeping and instant-on-ing, break (he didn't say what the actual problem was, just that there was a problem).

I think PALM had better get expectations into the realistic range soon or they may have a very-much-UNneeded PR problem on their hands.

Speaking of 'specially modifed proframs' for the Fooleo
SeldomVisitor @ 8/30/2007 4:18:27 PM # Q
== "...Foleo doesn't use standard bluetooth DUN or PAN. It uses a
== proprietary application that you put on your PDA. I don't know if
== I'm allowed to be more specific so I won't..."

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com//showpost.php?p=1338629&postcount=253

Reply to this comment

Palm has already produced more than enough Foleos

pmjoe @ 8/24/2007 7:30:18 PM # Q
... since virtually nobody is going to buy them.

It's really not too late for Palm to cancel this disaster. Are they listening?

RE: Palm has already produced more than enough Foleos
jca666us @ 8/24/2007 8:00:07 PM # Q
instead of squeezing the foleo out in time for "summer" palm should make every effort to ensure hardware and software are top notch.

Instead fools who buy foleo will likely be subjected to palm's "award winning" quality control.
We should start making bets to see how buggy this thing is when its released.

Does anyone think this will possibly be released in September???

RE: Palm has already produced more than enough Foleos
SeldomVisitor @ 8/24/2007 9:15:09 PM # Q
> ...Does anyone think this will possibly be released in September???...

PalmSource promised Cobalt by "end of the year". It was indeed "delivered" by end of the year.

Note the title of the article these are comments for.

Nuff said.

RE: Palm has already produced more than enough Foleos
LiveFaith @ 8/25/2007 2:42:36 AM # Q
***PalmSource promised Cobalt by "end of the year". It was indeed "delivered" by end of the year.***

SV, that made my stomach hurt. Having the Foleo result like that is akin to saying it will hit the release date, but the instant on feature does not work b/c Palm decided to leave off the power button. :-o


Pat Horne

Reply to this comment

Have you seen this animal?

Gekko @ 8/30/2007 7:21:33 AM # Q

any good?

"Now I can get some serious work done."

HTC Advantage 7501
Designed to liberate traveling executives from their bulky notebook PCs, the HTC Advantage is one muscled-up mini-computer. With a huge touch screen, full QWERTY keyboard and massive 8GB hard drive, the Advantage offers instant command of email and contacts, control of high-speed worldwide connectivity, and the power to create, edit, print or project any Microsoft Office document—all packed into a compact shape that fits in purse or pocket. For serious work on the fast track, why not give yourself an Advantage?
Key Features

* Microsoft® Windows Mobile® 6 Professional Phone operating system
* 3G (HSDPA-ready) and Wi-Fi® for global connectivity
* Direct Push to synchronize email, calendar and contacts
* Windows Media® Player Mobile for up to 5 hours of video
* Bluetooth® 2.0 for wireless stereo audio
* Built-in GPS to navigate anywhere, anytime
* TV & VGA Out feature to send PowerPoint® decks to external TV or projector
* Unprecedented 5" screen and magnetically attached keyboard
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* 3 megapixel camera shoots pictures and video
* MiniSD® expansion slot for unlimited storage


http://www.america.htc.com/products/advantage7501/default.html


Nope, But someone saw THIS one!
SeldomVisitor @ 8/30/2007 9:33:46 AM # Q
-- http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/palms-foleo-in-the-wild/

Wonder if (1) he reads PiC and (2) he was seeing how syncing was going and (3) what the phone was?


RE: Have you seen this animal?
freakout @ 8/30/2007 5:21:55 PM # Q
I like Engadget. But they really need to get over themselves:

We're still of the opinion that Palm should just abandon the whole Foleo concept and work on making the Treo competitive again, but despite our pleas, the company appears to be proceeding towards launch -- manufacturing delays or not.

You mean, they didn't cancel the entire product line and throw the last three years of hard work into the dumpster? My GOD! They're insane! Engadget wrote an editorial, it must be a terrible idea!!!

RE: Have you seen this animal?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/30/2007 6:40:31 PM # Q
> ...My GOD! They're insane!...

Yes, others think so, too:

== "...Well I finally got some hands-on time with a Foleo yesterday...
==
== ...as impressed as I was with the hardware I was also disappointed
== with the included software. Palm is insane for having thought about
== releasing this with what amounts to beta software..."

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com//showpost.php?p=1338551&postcount=158

RE: Have you seen this animal?
cervezas @ 8/30/2007 8:28:46 PM # Q
So that was TVoR (a.k.a. Chupacabra) agreeing with his "colleague" TVoR (a.k.a. Chupacabra) on the merits and demerits of the Foleo.

Should we perform the intervention now or wait until the day when one of him disagrees with the other and sparks a runaway chain-reaction "biotch-slapping"?

Never a dull moment in Palm fandom.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Have you seen this animal?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/30/2007 8:31:34 PM # Q
It's not clear, actually, who is who.

Or for THAT matter, it certainly isn't clear to THIS reader if TVoR is =a= "who" or a "them".

But, in any case, THIS statement stands!

== "...Yes, others think so, too..."

Giggle.

RE: Have you seen this animal?
Gekko @ 8/30/2007 9:33:18 PM # Q

Palm could literally offer a box filled with human fecal matter for $599 with $100 rebate and Beersie would try to convince everyone what a great deal it was. no shame.


RE: Have you seen this animal?
cervezas @ 8/30/2007 10:23:32 PM # Q
Not true. There'd have to be at least a $200 rebate before I'd even *think* about it. ;-)

Anyway, I seem to recall that you're the one who is going on about that Centro phone, not me. Personally, I've been waiting for a clamshell Treo for years, not some dinky candybar with yet another exposed keyboard and screen that I have to keep covered and clipped to my belt. I know a lot of folks are crazy about the Treo, and it's not a bad smartphone--I love Palm OS--but it's not at all what I'd be designing if I were Palm, and most definitely not what I'd design for myself. If it weren't for the fact that I can only activate one phone per account on Sprint (I need to use a bunch of handsets with different OSes for testing) I'd still be on my five-yr-old Samsung i500 with Palm OS 4.1.

Or maybe even my pimped out anodized gold aircraft aluminum Visor Platinum with the Sprint Digital Link and Vaja alligator skin case. Now *that* would turns some heads today! Sure it's a little impractical, but damn! That thing has character!

...and WiFi, too :-o

I will say this: I do have hopes (not entirely based on wishful thinking) that we'll see some interesting new things coming out of Palm in the coming few years. :-)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Have you seen this animal?
mikecane @ 8/31/2007 2:48:25 PM # Q
>>>I do have hopes (not entirely based on wishful thinking) that we'll see some interesting new things coming out of Palm in the coming few years. :-)

*snort!*

The first wishful thinking is that Palm will last a few more years.

RE: Have you seen this animal?
Gekko @ 8/31/2007 3:28:35 PM # Q

how does Mrs. Beersie like her fooleo?

http://tinyurl.com/2pdl98


RE: Have you seen this animal?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/31/2007 4:37:25 PM # Q
Looks like it could be an iPhone instead.

RE: Have you seen this animal?
mikecane @ 8/31/2007 5:41:09 PM # Q
So, it begins:

http://profoleo.com/

RE: Have you seen this animal?
mikecane @ 8/31/2007 5:51:18 PM # Q
It also begins:

http://foleofanatics.com/

RE: Have you seen this animal?
mikecane @ 8/31/2007 6:13:22 PM # Q
This too begins:

http://foleocentral.blogspot.com/

So now there are three!

RE: Have you seen this animal?
freakout @ 8/31/2007 9:09:21 PM # Q
How does Gekko like his trolling?

http://tinyurl.com/22vnb9

(Hey, if you can dish it out... :P )

RE: Have you seen this animal?
mikecane @ 9/1/2007 2:59:26 PM # Q
Could you, like, finally figure out how to suicide so PIC can be retard-free again?

RE: Have you seen this animal?
BaalthazaaR @ 9/1/2007 3:09:14 PM # Q
Now this is what I was looking for in a Treo... Just with a full size screen and a slide out keyboard for all those querty fanboys.

http://www.engadget.com/photos/hands-on-with-samsungs-sgh-i620-wm6-slider/375474/

RE: Have you seen this animal?
freakout @ 9/1/2007 10:10:24 PM # Q
^^ Looks nice. Horrible color though.

(And Mike, even if I did, there'd still be you. Tell you what: you go first, and I'll gladly form a committee to review the general idea of your plan in relation to a broader socio-economic context with a view to producing a final report sometime in 2010, with the power to make legislatively binding recommendations that will be acted upon in a sensible, timely fashion to be completed no later than 2364. Your input will certainly be heard, or at least raised and dismissed.)

RE: Have you seen this animal?
mikecane @ 9/2/2007 10:48:56 AM # Q
What a retard. PIC has has resident retard now, kids. Watch him drool. Mention Happy Meals and he drools faster!

So that's a 'no' then?
freakout @ 9/2/2007 8:12:40 PM # Q
And I thought it was a pretty generous offer too...
Video evidence of TVoR!
SeldomVisitor @ 9/3/2007 1:06:53 PM # Q
RE: Have you seen this animal?
mikecane @ 9/3/2007 2:40:55 PM # Q
It's so easy to top people here...

http://tinyurl.com/2oxzek

Too easy.

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