Comments on: Rumor: Full Info on m515 and m130

- I am a long time Palm user from back in 1996 when the Pilot 5000 and still am with my m505. For kicks I bought my wife a T615 and I don't care what anyone says the screen is "amazing" just like I said compared to any other PDA screen with a PalmOS on it I have ever seen. Is that going to make me give up my m505... no, but I will expect my next Palm this fall with an ARM processor to have a screen similar in quality. Can't someone ever say ANYTHING good about something other than a PDA made by Palm hardware? Sheeesh!

Dave

- your right... my point is right now Palm doesn't have anything close to the Clie screen but some on this board kill you if you say it, because of their huge support of Palm hardware. I am one of the largest supporters of Palm hardware considering each and every year since 1996 I have bought the top of the line model from Palm but that doesn't mean I can't give credit where credit is due.

NOW... if bluetooth is built into a m5xx form factor with a 320x320 screen comparable to the T615 with an ARM processor of decent strength and OS 5 from Palm... YOU BET it will replace my Palm, not a Clie version of the same thing. Why? I have loyalty to Palm as long as they continue to have industry leading hardware in what I need (basic PDA functionality perhaps with future access to my cellphone via bluetooth) with all the things I want (the best damn color screen out there)... so if I bought a PDA today it would be Clie (but I'm not buying today) but this fall I full expect Palm (as an independent hardware company struting its stuff) to have something comparable to the Clie screen with the goods I want...!

And I'll buy it. ;-)

Yes my kicks are expensive...!

Not in your assessment of the T615C screen - it truly IS very nice.

BUT, I think you're off in assuming that you get flamed if you say anything nice around about anything but Palm products. The fact is, the pro-Sony fanatics are the ones who appear to be controlling the PIC discussion boards. Say something nice about Palm, and you get flamed. Say something bad about Sony, and you get flamed. Make a statement that is simultaneously positive regarding Palm and negative regarding Sony, and you might as well receive death threats.

The profitability of these special editions (you may recall as LIMITED EDITIONS ala collector's items) when sold only at the Palm site is quite high and easily controlled from a production stand point.

I have a cranberry and look forward to 'colored' m515s and others.

Yes, there will be a model to replace the m515 - just like the P4 chip will be replaced by whatever new CPU Intel puts out.

Stop sulking, and buy whatever you want!

If you're looking for hi-res from Palm, you're going to have to wait until OS 5.
Otherwise, you've got plenty - OS 4.1, 16mb RAM, slim form factor, etc.

I'm willing to bet the battery life won't be compromised much if at all - Palm may have found a sidelight solution that provides more brightness with minimal power. It has been a year since they developed the m505, after all. What's more, the m515 should ship with DTG Pro 4.0, which includes Slideshow-to-Go. Not a bad deal, and NO PRICE INCREASE!

Oh, and here are 4 reasons not to buy a T615:
1) Poor stylus
2) Poor button design.
3) Lack of AVAILABLE accessories (The "Just Wait" excuse can only take you so far)
4) Terrific screen brightness and clarity is offset somewhat by the lack of color depth - it does appear slightly washed-out

Anyway, there may be one more stop for Palm OS 4.1 hardware and that is the 66MZ Dragonballs. Surely there will be some update to other hardware features when 66 MZ arrives......or maybe not.

So far the only announced product I have seen featuring a 66 is the next model of the Samsung (the Le SPH 1330 as seen in this link http://www.pdafrance.com/articles/article.php?cat=dossierdivers&id=108&p=7 )

-Timothy Rapson-

btw they're cheaper than SD

128 MB $57!!

If you play games, don't get the Sony Clie. Buy a Gameboy Advance. They're cheap at $69 in most places and play much better games than the Palm.

If you have large mitts for hands, don't buy the Sony Clie. In any case, your stumps for fingers will have a hard time with Palms as well. Get a day planner instead.

For the rest of us, the Sony Clie is an excellent choice.

..hmm another immature SOB
If you feel stupid becouse you already bought your m505 that's ok, learn to live with that, work extra hours and maybe next summer you will get one and maybe in 20 years you will be able to buy a BMW.

what a loser!

And you're shopping where...? It's easy to see at any mainstream store that there are many more accessories for the m505 than the T615.

>> To all the people critiquing the Sony Clie buttons:

If you play games, don't get the Sony Clie. Buy a Gameboy Advance. They're cheap at $69 in most places and play much better games than the Palm.

If you have large mitts for hands, don't buy the Sony Clie. In any case, your stumps for fingers will have a hard time with Palms as well. Get a day planner instead. <<

You need to GIVE UP that chip on your shoulder, Mr. Sony-lover. You've essentially said that the only people who would have a problem with the Sony buttons either play games or have enormous hands. I am physically capable of pressing the Sony buttons, and I don't use my Palm for games. Although they don't pose a physical problem, I still don't like the buttons. I would prefer a different design--even the buttons from the N series. What is so hard to understand about that?

Seems to me someone is a little too in love with their Clie (just what exactly are you sticking in that MS slot?), and needs to get off the soapbox whenever someone else points out an imperfection. You like it - GREAT. That doesn't mean we ALL have to...

Ahhh...maybe its just me (i know it isn't cause a ton has been reported about this) but the m505 takes the cake in the 'washed out colors' category. the t615 lacks color depth relative to the n760 and maybe the visor (havent really looked at the visor much), but is a lot better then the m505 in both depth and resolution. Hope the m515 is as good as its reported to be.

Actually, it's a little different than expected. I was having a tough time deciding between the M515 and the T615, and almost walked out of the store with the T615. After going to three stores to make sure I was not looking at any one unusually good or bad device, I picked up the M515 with the intention of trading it back in for the T615 (love that res!) if there were any disappointments. To my surprise, it was better than expected.

SCREEN
The screen, even with the sidelight off, has much better contrast than the 505. The colors have beter saturation, depth, and clarity... you can immediately tell the difference between the 515 and the 505 (again, with the sidelight off).

SIDELIGHT
One of the main advantages over the 505, but not my top priority due to my own 505 being brighter than normal. As they report on the low setting, the 515 is at least twice as bright as a normal 505, but only 30% brighter than my own 505. If you are a regular here, you may have seen me comment on my wife's M505, which blew mine out of the water in the brightness department. The 515 on the low setting is only slightly brighter than her 505. High setting is a different story altogether, and brought back memories of my IIIc, but without the grid being noticable. The high setting is actually too bright unless you are trying to impress someone, and I wish there was a medium setting.

"BLACK" GRID
There isn't one. The spaces between the pixels are smaller than the IIIc and are silver/gray. They are more obvious than the T615 because of the better resolution on the Sony, but even my 1024x768 laptop (and any other laptop screen I've seen) has grid lines that are more obvious than than either the M515 or T615. Between the M515 and the T615, the T615 is better in this department, but don't believe the posts that claim they stand out like a street map.

BATTERY
An unexpected surprise. Much better than my 505, as good or better than my old IIIc, maybe even as good as my IIIe if I keep the sidelight off. The IIIc would get me through ANY day with power to spare, and my handhelds get extreme usage on a good workday, sometimes 10 times the normal usage. Most PPC's need two trips to chargeland per day the way I use handhelds. I have not held back on using the M515, it has been through an entire workday doing everything my other Palms have done and more, and the battery is still at 100%. I don't know what else to say.

RAM
Same as the T615, so no advantage here, but twice as nice as the 505. 16Mb is good no matter which Palm you get!

BUTTONS
No skimping here, best in the business.

GRAFFITI
This was the only downside, as I loved the lit graffiti area on the M505. However, with the sidelight being so bright, you get enough "spillover" to see where you are tapping on the graffiti area.

Nothing else to report at this time. I still have the option to return the M515 in exchange for the T615, but I don't think the jog wheel and resolution are enough to pull me away. Now, the new ones from Sony with the flip screen, camera, and keyboard... THAT's another story! But they are in a different price range and I'd never get any work done!

Most "pro-Sony, anti-Palm twits" as you wrote were Palm users just like you that saw the light at the end of the tunnel, and regardless how hard you try to justify your Palm purchase, the Clies are superior innovative PDAs.
I know that Palm cheerleaders will say that the stylus and buttons suck but thats a minor thing compared to twice memory, much much better screen, you can actually see full width Word docs!!, easy acces w/jog wheel and USB hotsync that works.
Of course Sony's sales are far behind Palm, but thats becouse you only find them in BBuy and Circuitcity
:(!

Sure you can but you need magnifying glasses to see the miniature text! Don't waste yor time telling me that typing a word doc in that resolution is easier than in large font on a standard palm because it's not true!

Of course, using ThinFont or FontHack is a different matter but such "hi-res support" is something I could do without.

Yet another guy talking about his "wife's T615"... Maybe it's the same guy.

Note that I used the word "personally" in my comment above. I don't use a Palm keyboard or any other accessories, apart from a hard case and custom stylus. I suspect that most people, like me, use a desktop computer so much that they don't need a keyboard. I realise that there will be exceptions. For people *like me* then, the choice between the Sony and the Palm comes down to the specs/price of the individual unit. On balance, I *personally* feel the T625 offers more. But hey, the M515 isn't out yet so maybe I'll change my mind on 4th March or whenever it does come out.

Did I mention its my birthday on 4th March...

Both machines will be excellent pieces of kit. A couple of the Sony's features *I* like are the hi-res screen and the jog-dial. Still, like all you guys out there I'll be keen to see the 'official' specs when they're available.

Gordon from Edinburgh.

By the time there are any 615 peripherals out, there will be even MORE for the m515. Palm has an insurmountable lead as Sony had to force all the manufacturers to start all over again.

Boy, some people really have to rationalize in order to justify buying an inferior product!

I own a Sony and just want to say that the person who posted the above is a ******. I owned the m505 as well and it was a great machine until I lost it :-( The Sony is good but the m505 holds it's own no problems. I should state that my girlfriend bought me the Sony after I lost the m505.

The Sony DOES (don't tell me it doesn't coz it does!) feel much larger in the hand than the m505 but yes, the Sony screen wins hands down. Colours are a bit washy though. I would be happy with either an m505/515 or a T615c as reading ebooks and looking at pictures are not my thing at all. For me they are electronic agendas and nothing more...well, maybe stylish too!

So all you bigoted Sony posters, please stop saying that the Sony is so, so superior...because it just plain isn't...although it is still an excellent product as is the m505.

a) the rumoured (but, presumably, soon to be released) m515; or

b) the much hyped (but flawed) T615; or

c) a derivative of the T615 (details of which are speculation, at best).

This is insane. Put your analyst on danger money, baby.

Going by your your statement:

"This is a commonly-held belief that turns out to not be true. During PalmSource, Mike Mace displayed the results of a survey that showed that 82% of Palm users are aware that they can load third-party applications onto their handhelds and 67% have done so."

Out of 100 palm users, 18 haven't installed third party software because they didn't know they could, while out of the remaining 82 palm users out of 100, 27 have not installed third party software. 18 plus 27 equals 45 out of 100 Palm users that haven't installed third party software. That is pretty close to the 50% that the previous poster stated. It is also an excellent example of how numbers can be twisted to make it look in Palm's favor.

>> it does seem like they have a renewed focus and have started to emerge from a very difficult period.
Yep. Their moves this year have shown a lot of common sense. Boring? You could say that. The sex appeal comes in Q4 and beyond.

>> Turned the corner? I don't think so. Wait until everyone sees how grainy the screen on the M515 is.
Sony's impressive technology aside, non-enthusiasts are "ok" that resolution.

>> Everything else they are doing is from sheer desperation.
The OS5 architecture is to well thought-out to be considered desperation.

and you believed palm where they said it wast true?

(Not really, he only stated that it worked for a while, but it was amusing anyway)!

Talking abt bigoted Sony supporters. It is the same with this guy that try to scare people from buying Sony without any proof. Get a life. Do not twist the truth or put unfounded truth of yourself just that your beloved Palm Inc survice.

Oh, in case you want to know, I do not own any palm os. Intend to buy one. It is really ugly to see you guys fighting among palm os devices. PPCs guys will be happy to see this.

How would this work, wouldn't any new code using the new screen density APIs be optimized to run only on ARM and OS5? Or is there going to be some sort of emulation? I am aware that OS5 is backwards-compatible but is the Sony hardware forwards-compatible?

We'll have to wait until this fall for the ARM based/OS5 models to hit for the revolution to begin.

If you love your m505 what is your problem? Don't say the screen is lousy because it isn't. You may have a faulty unit. My screen is fine, absolutely no problems at all. You don't have to fork out a penny, you have a perfectly useable m505. Just wait for a few months and then shell out some cash on OS5 devices. Only someone who bedwets would actually dump an m505 just to get the m515. Has a better backlight and 8mb more memory on the m515 suddenly made your m505 unusable??? No, I didn't think so. Much more intelligent to wait and see what OS5 brings then dump the m505.

So, my caveat will be, buy sony if the nice screen and extra goodies are worth the chance of having to deal with their extremely crappy support if there is a problem.

And before you start saying Palm's support isn't any better, let me say that I've had on occasion in the last five years to call Palm support about six times. NEVER have I had the problems or gotten the run-around that I got the FIRST time I called Sony.

- awaiting the return of my (repaired) 615... in "approx 2-3 weeks", meanwhile back to the 610...

* 16 MB. Handspring did this first and the m515 will have it too.

* Better speaker. Been in the TRGpro since 1999.

* TV remote control. That's OK but it's not a major advance.

Sony keeps introducing new models but hasn't done anything really new in going on a year.

In that same time, they've made several major screw-ups. The T415's screen is a dud. Their wireless service is only for the low end S series and the modem is way too big.

You know, I feel bad writing this. I actually like Sony and their handhelds. I might buy one when my current handhelds needs an upgrade. But the Sony-heads here have this smug, insulting attitude that makes me want to prove them wrong, which is why I wrote this.

While they haven't done anything really "new," keep in mind that they added all those features onto a single device (T-series) while still keep in slim design. That's a feat in itself.

It's easy to pick apart elements of the clie, but you have to admit that sony's delivered on the wish list for most users who post on this site:
- slim design
- external speaker
- great color screen
- more memory

Also, it simply amazes me that most palm users who complain about the T415 screen being too dim are also the same people who justify that the m505 is bright enough when compared to the T615C.

Don't tell the truth to people who do not want to hear it. You might hurt yourself.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

people next time please compare apple to apple oranges to oranges. there's no point comparing a color model to a b/w model, anyways basically they both sucked, so you are just trying to debate which one is worse.

It would put an end to this 'universal connector' b***sh*t. Changing the connector for every new model.
Most accessories people use are large enough to hold a $10 bluetooth chip. One single keyboard would serve them all for years to come. Think of it. An entire industry would collapse! Noooo, you don't want that to happen, do you?

It would solve the communication issue with other gizmo's like mobile phones, desktop computers and virtually any other source of data around you that you can think of. At home, at the office, in your car, you mention it. It would be too much for you to cope with. All this information would lead to burnout. It would fill the 8mb too quickly. Don't ever fall for BlueT.

Other than that, it would be too convenient. You want to aim two infrared ports at each other. Now just don't move for a sec....
You want to carry around all those cables with you. Make sure you've got the connection with you.

And you most certainly do not want an USB port in your cradle. That would mean you could use USB peripherals today!!!!! Good heavens no, that should never happen. God forbid I should be able to plug in an USB keyboard in a pda cradle and type ahead. A whole industry down the drain.
Personally, I think this whole USB connection thing with pda's is way too fast. At least Palm understands this and will fry those who try and deny it ever happened.

Industry wide support for BlueT would mean Palm competitors could release pda's and existing peripherals would actually work!! Now we don't want that to happen, do we? Do you know how much money people have invested in these peripherals? Often more than the pda itself!!! Remember that when crying for BlueT!

WAAAHHHAAAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAA
sob sob

Cheers ;-)
Jan

/*
As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
*/

This would have been an easy and relatively cheap addition to the m5xx line. Easy because with the external model available this means that all the basic coding and testing of bluetooth has already been done.

Fixing the screen and adding 8 mb of memory brings Palm up to the standards that others have set.
Adding Bluetooth would have allowed Palm to cry victory again.
"Palm boosts technical innovation to new unprecedented hights" Yeah, I can see the marketeers crap. How about this one: "Palm sets new standards for industry" That's a nice one, isn't it? I think I should make a career move. "Palm back at the frontline of technical innovation" Oops I did it again.

Don't get me wrong. I think the 515 is a fine pda. But Palm missed a chance here. It is a big moral boost to be able to call yourself leader again after the period Palm has gone through.

And to mention something a lot of posters here do not want to hear about: over at the ppc camp, the first bt enabled machines are out. Bluetooth is not some experimental playground for nerds anymore. In fact, the bluetooth explosion was expected to happen last year. It is acually quite mature already.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
*/

The m125 will continue for a few more months.....the m105 should be discontinued by the end of the second calendar quarter.....it's replacement will be out by then.

The replacement for the m500 may be the m525..and may also have color, though I have not been given any solid proof yet.

Direct from a memo: "We plan to have all Palms support the UC by end of 2Q"

I should have a lot more by mid march

Bluetooth chips placed on motherboard now cost about $10. They think we will pay $130 to add it in a slot (the only slot available!)

NO, NO, NO!

No.
No.

I'm not saying that your technique will work or not but wouldn't the Palm be rendered useless after doing this?

If you'd wanted to be really out there, you should have suggested the m505 be taken apart and each piece soaked in gasoline.

From CNET

http://news.com.com/2011-1088-277831.html?tag=rmrftr

Palm bomb diffused with aplomb
Last week, Palm Computing staffers got a scare as their Santa Clara, Calif., headquarters were evacuated in a bomb scare.

Skinformants say a Palm VP was roaming the halls when he noticed what appeared to be a propane canister and a black briefcase sitting unattended in the hallway. No word if the witness heard a ticking sound emanating from the stray vessels, but the company confirmed accounts that the exec immediately phoned security.

Security at the Palm campus prudently decided that bomb diffusion exceeded their job description, called 911, and evacuated the building.

While staffers awaited the bomb squad, Chief Executive Carl Yankowski returned from his lunch break. On inquiring why the personnel of his troubled company was milling around in the California sunshine on a Monday afternoon, Yankowski was told of the mysterious propane tank and briefcase discovery and the resulting evacuation.

This was Yahkowski's cue to explain to his troops that he had brought his home barbecue's fuel tank into the office so the company's concierge service could have it refilled.

Skinformants report that Palm staffers subsequently enjoyed a productive afternoon.

Yanker was a CEO in name only. That idiot wasn't even fit to work in concierge. He's the kind of twit in elementary school you would have put into a corner with a dunce cap.

Yanker's recent explanations about his dismissal are completely inane and ridiculous. I put him in the same category as the Sugar Water Man, John Sculley. Marketing dorks nor sales people do not make good CEOs. It's a lesson the tech industry continues to repeat over-and-over-and-over-and-over again.

Better poor and right than rich and foolish.

Don't you have any homework to do?

2. The m515 uses the universal connector (as will all new Palms for sometime to come) and will not work with your existing cradle or collapsable keyboard. This is nothing new as the Palm keyboard currently come in three different versions: V series, m1xx series and m5xx series (or somthing like this - somebody correct me if this breakdown is incorrect)

It's just that the Sony crowd (and I'm talking to YOU, Mr. "Reality Distortion Algorithm") has this smug attitude that the T615 is somehow superior in every way to anything Palm offers, (or will offer) or anything anyone ELSE offers, either. You need to GET OVER IT. The T615 is a very nice machine. It is not perfect, however. The m505 is a pretty nice machine, as well, as are the Visor Prism, Handera 330, etc., etc., etc.

Why does the Sony crowd continually seek to crown their handheld as "king of all PDAs?" Are you that insecure in your own status as humans?

Someone PLEASE answer this for me...

It's just that the Sony crowd (and I'm talking to YOU, Mr. "Reality Distortion Algorithm") has this smug attitude that the T615 is somehow superior in every way to anything Palm offers, (or will offer) or anything anyone ELSE offers, either. You need to GET OVER IT. The T615 is a very nice machine. It is not perfect, however. The m505 is a pretty nice machine, as well, as are the Visor Prism, Handera 330, etc., etc., etc.

Why does the Sony crowd continually seek to crown their handheld as "king of all PDAs?" Are you that insecure in your own status as humans?

Someone PLEASE answer this for me..."

huh !? , what's up with this post, is it just me or is it not making any sense ?

"I'm not sure if some of the pro-Sony faction are truly understanding the argument here. I think most m505 users are rational enough to realize that the T615's screen is better.

It's just that the Sony crowd (and I'm talking to YOU, Mr. "Reality Distortion Algorithm") has this smug attitude that the T615 is somehow superior in every way to anything Palm offers, (or will offer) or anything anyone ELSE offers, either. You need to GET OVER IT. The T615 is a very nice machine. It is not perfect, however. The m505 is a pretty nice machine, as well, as are the Visor Prism, Handera 330, etc., etc., etc.

Why does the Sony crowd continually seek to crown their handheld as "king of all PDAs?" Are you that insecure in your own status as humans?

Someone PLEASE answer this for me..."

Now can somebody tell me is it just me or is the poster of the above message out of his mind ?

I am not pro sony, I don't even have a clie, but the fact is Clie does offer the best PDAs out there right now, and no matter what palm trolls say they still can't change the fact that M505 has the worst color screen in the history of computing.

It's just that the Sony crowd (and I'm talking to YOU, Mr. "Reality Distortion Algorithm") has this smug attitude that the T615 is somehow superior in every way to anything Palm offers, (or will offer) or anything anyone ELSE offers, either. You need to GET OVER IT. The T615 is a very nice machine. It is not perfect, however. The m505 is a pretty nice machine, as well, as are the Visor Prism, Handera 330, etc., etc., etc.

Why does the Sony crowd continually seek to crown their handheld as "king of all PDAs?" Are you that insecure in your own status as humans?

Someone PLEASE answer this for me..."

...??????

this guy is a moron or obsessed against Sony
the topic is BT!!!

jeez!!!

Try this link: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/m505

to get started, register, then go to the "photos" link.

Regardless. For new users, the Palm m130 and m515 are going to be hits baby!

"Finally, Knowing that all you Sony whiners will attack me for what I've just said, I say this: Wait One year and we will see where the sales figures are and who's left standing in the PDA wars."

hehe, many people said that in 2001 that Sony is going to totally cut their PDA product in 2002, guess what guys, it's Handspring who will stop making PDAs in 2002. Let's see who's next.

In 2001 Sony's market share jumped from less than 1% to 6%, doesnt those figures tell you something ? In fact I got my statistics from CNET which they got their data from some reliable market research comapnies. Unlike some ppl who just throw around numbers like 85% ppl want color, and worse of all he actually say it's a fact LoL, what a joke.

Indication that a new model is coming up in april/may.
A color 330 with some other minor improvements.

This means that there will be a powerful color pda on the market before the Sony/Palm/PPC wars will begin in the fall, before the holiday season. A pda with some obvious attractions for both first time buyers and seasoned power users.
HandEra could earn some serious money there. At the same time, it is a gamble to continue an aging (visual) design like the 330. Technically, this machine is up there with the Palms and the Sony's with enough features to stand out from the crowd.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
*/

There are too many people here who use every opportunity they can get to post negative flames about other people's pda's. Their own particular pda being far superior of course...

Sorry if I did not make that clear enough in my previous post.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
*/

People do not know this. The average user (first time PDA owner) is not surfing the net everyday looking for Palm news. Those first time buyers will go to best buy and look at all the different options and will buy on what the salesman/women tells them, which is very little...

And you're basing this on...? There are alot of individuals in corporations who use Palm PDAs, but don't confuse that with corporations actually buying them. For a large corporation to buy PDAs, they, the CIOs, have to consider whether or not they fit nicely with the pre-existing Windows environment. In addition, the Palm OS has been dinged constantly for its lack of real security measures.

>"Well If it weren't for the constant,incessant, putrid behavior which Most sony owners exhibit, then Sony might sell quite a few more clies."

Huh? How does one equate into the other? By your argument, Palm is definitely in trouble because of people like you who "exhibit" this "constant, incessant, putrid behavior." You base none of your arguments on fact and let emotion and conjecture run amok.

>"Wait One year and we will see where the sales figures are and who's left standing in the PDA wars."

Let's look back one year: Palm had 50.4% of pda market. Now they're roughly 38.4%. Sony had 1% in 2000 and now they're 6%. I highly doubt that the new units will revive their market figures, in light of increased competition from new hardware licensees.

You are an idiot.
Palm is now 2 companies: PalmSource(the OS) and Palm Inc (the hardware guys).

Are Compaq/HP/Dell/Gateway and IBM ripping off Microsoft (analgous to the PalmSource situation)?

Are Compaq/HP/Dell and Gateway ripping off IBM(analgous to the Palm Inc situation)?

PalmSource certainly doens't consider Sony to be 'ripping them off'. For PalmOS, Sony is good business.

You idiots should think before devolving into such a juvenile pissing match.

All I was trying to say is that with these two new handhelds, Palm has positioned itself as the true dominant player in the PDA market. I was also trying to paint a picture of what "I" think will happen in the PDA market in the coming future. Take it for what its worth.

And for those who must resort to calling me names, you people need to get a life. You're nothing but a bunch of Homebound geeks who have nothing better to do other than to bash people over the head for speaking their mind. SO what if I like Palm? SO what if I'm one of the millions who like and use Palm hardware and software? I work in the automotive industry and this debate reminds me of all the Ford Vs. Chevy debates that people always have. Yet Ford and Chevy both make good product and both continue to sell cars. The same goes for PDA's. Palm and Sony and Compaq may continue to sell many PDA's with many players who will come and go, i.e. Handspring, Handera, Psion, Apple etc....

By the way I DO welcome responses to my thoughts here and above but please can we keep this CIVIL, CONSTRUCTIVE Discussion. I'm not here to bash anyone for the Kind of PDA they CHOOSE to use...and I expect to be treated the same way.

Thanks again Ed. I can't possibly say enough good things about this site.

Posting anonymously is so much fun!

Before anything else i am a fan of all Palm OS pda's. I also am a fan of great products and companies who push the envelope of innovation and design. Quite frankly PALM's last greatest innovation was the Vx. Although i am a huge fan of the m505 screen in terms of power consumption, the impending m515 is what the m505 should have been. I love Palm but i have been quite disappointed with them as of late. I hope they recover from their 2001 debacle but they certainly can't afford another flagship unit flop.

Lastly i must comment on your gross generalization of Sony products. You fail to mention what 320x320 has done for the overall look of the Palm OS. although Sony'y Hires MAY only be a hack and not a true 320X320 that is restricted by the OS not SONY's capabilities. Imagine if Sony decided to go with a Pocket PC and all its hardware capabilities? As much as i hate to admit it, Sony has replaced PALM as the PDA leader of innovation and design. Not to mention good pricing of their products. Within the last 3 quarters how many units have PALM introduced? How many has PALM?

Lets hope that your assertions of PALM are correct, but i must point out that some of your statements are gross generalizations of the industry.

and this is not the kind of "CIVIL, CONSTRUCTIVE Discussion" I expect from people that uses Palm. I thought they are all very civilized that why they think all clie users are trolls.

Palm OS 4 and below does not support anything but 160 so Sony and HandEra had to hack the OS to get the beautiful screens their machines have, each in their own way.

Palm OS 5 will support other screen formats than 160 but the actual implementation differs from the hack that Sony used to pull it off. I believe Sony has already indicated that it will follow the new standard. Anyone more info on this?
Does not sound unreasonable because OS 5 means a new hardware platform anyway and code forking could lead to compatibility problems, and most developers would probably choose to follow Palm anyway.

Don't know about HandEra.

Cheers,
Jan

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One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
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OS5 will be running on ARM processor for sure.

However, some (many?) licensees are saying they will be offering first generation ARM units with OS 5.0 that can be flashed to OS 5.5 or OS 6 when it becomes available. You wouldn't get the hardware advances that come along in the year between os 5 and os 6, but you could still get the OS 6 updates. (At least the ones that don't require some new hardware advance, like speakers or audio hardware.)

Here is an example. The original Palm Pilot 1000 had 512k of RAM; the m515 apparently has 16M (ignore the SD card support for now). This means that in 5-6 years there has been an almost 32 fold increase in onboard memory or a roughly 3,100% improvement. Do you have a problem with this?

Will that rate of inprovement be kept up for the next 6 years? I doubt it.

The problem is that technology does not keep advancing at a steedy pace. After a while, all the possibilities of a particular breakthrough are exploited and it becomes harder to keep up the pace of innovation.

For example, monochrome screens are now about as good as they will ever be using LCD technology. Until different technology becomes available, it is just senseless to complain lack of innovation/improvements. (Color screens and hi-res are not innovations in the sense of new technology; they are just possible answers to different consumer needs.)

The point is this: Palm is listening to its customers and making improvements to its (already successful) products.

I think they deserve some praise, not just more of the same innane complaints.

I think the Palm site may be doing the port a disservice; my m505 has a range of at least 10 feet, and Pacific Neotek seem to give similar results here...

http://www.pacificneotek.com/range.htm

Ian Davenport