Comments on: Tidbits About the NR Series

The first of Sony's NR series, the NR70, was released in Japan on Saturday. TWCUG has pictures of the packaging and some comparison pictures with a T600C.

There is a great deal of anticipation about when these handhelds will be released in other countries. According to a source at Best Buy, the PEG-NR70 is listed in that retailer's system. Apparently the same name will be used in both countries. Its price is $500 and SKU is 4586978.

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Cell phones?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 8:35:28 AM #
Does anybody know if and when Sony intends to add Palm phones (not the Ericsson stuff) to their lineup?

RE: Cell phones?
big_raji @ 3/25/2002 9:19:53 AM #
I don't think Sony will ever release a Palm phone. Not because they don't want to, but because they'll leave it up to Ericsson to do so. Sony probably won't want to release a phone that could compete with Ericsson.

The decision to use PalmOS will be Ericsson's decision, and from what I can see, they have no plans to do so.

---
If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

RE: Cell phones?
mtg101 @ 3/25/2002 12:42:59 PM #
Well... unless Nokia but out Symbian...

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russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
RE: Cell phones?
mtg101 @ 3/25/2002 2:18:08 PM #
ahem... buy out Symbian...

---
russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
RE: Cell phones?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 5:58:48 PM #
The only thing missing : a marriage of the N770C or their new NR product line with their CMD7 phones. Would be stylish and functional. Looks like were going to have to abandon this beautifull screen.
Treo is not an option, since no memory expansion possible.

$500 should be about right

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 8:34:39 AM #
At that price, the NR series should wipe out most Pocket PC sales for buyers who want extra features. In the meantime, people who want a less feature-packed PDA can opt for one of the current models, which might see a slight drop in price by, say, June.

What does it all mean? Not sure, but I would suggest that, given the instability of the Pocket PC's "business side," we might actually see it die soon...but not a moment TOO soon.

RE: $500 should be about right
rigter @ 3/25/2002 8:55:47 AM #
Hmmm... I'm afraid I do not agree at all.

The decision to use a certain machine with a certain operating system for business is more complex than that imho.
Important factors are network connectivity, administration tools, effort required to train both users and administrators, availability of peripherals, availability of service, availability of software that can be embedded in a company's software strategy and probably something else I forgot like cost of ownership throughout the life-cycle.

While it may not seem such a good idea to make a miniature windows OS for ppc's from a quality point of view, it does answer most of the points mentioned above. It simply feels familiar, including the blue screens, and doesn't need a lot of training.
Palm machines also score heavily on these points. Sony doesn't.

Business IT administrators don't like fast changes in hard and software. It makes their job more and more complex. They prefer a more stable platform.
Palm support is available worldwide. I don't know about Sony.
Palm peripherals are made by tons of companies, including networking stuff and also hardware for vertical markets. None of that for Sony.

No matter how much I appreciate the pioneering efforts of Sony, I would never recommend a company to invest in Sony machines for their Palm OS devices.
And with Handspring effectively killing off an entire product line in a single press conference I don't think that is a good move either. It takes years to restore the confidence of both the market and manufacturers that use the handspring platform.

At the moment there is no alternative for Palm hardware but Palm for a business buyer.
Companies with an installed base of Palms might have a look at HandEra. These are clearly aimed at the business power user. Limited availability is a problem, however.

Last but not least: Sony has never marketed their devices as being business tools either.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

RE: $500 should be about right
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 9:20:32 AM #
> At that price, the NR series should wipe out most Pocket PC sales for buyers who want extra features

You're perfect for a marketing droid position at any major corporation. I will provide good references for you.



RE: $500 should be about right
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 9:37:14 AM #
Hmm. Japanese model w/o camera, including 10MB ROM sells for around $389 in Japan.

US$500 for the US, no camera and possibly NOT 10MB ROM...

rip off...?

RE: $500 should be about right
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:04:02 AM #
>>>Hmm. Japanese model w/o camera, including 10MB ROM sells for around $389 in Japan.

US$500 for the US, no camera and possibly NOT 10MB ROM... <<<<<


They both have the same RAM as for ROM the japanese language needs more, english does not so why have it? Are you out hunting for ripoffs?
Maybe you should go buy the cheapest, Japanese pda you can find. I'm sure you will love it.


RE: $500 should be about right
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:09:17 AM #
The amount of empty space in the ROM will be the same. Japanese handhelds have to have huge ROMs because of their not very efficient way of writing.

Besides which, you need to give up on storing things in ROM. It's a desperate measure left over from the days when Palm handhelds didn't have memory cards. It's as outdated as the buggy whip.

This isn't a feature of the handhelds Sony is giving its Japanese customers and denying you. In fact, using any of those apps to store things in ROM is a violation of your warranty.

RE: $500 should be about right
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:21:30 AM #
I believe you are wrong in saying that storing data in ROM is a desperate measure!

First off, not everyone uses their memory card for backup, therefore having a copy of the more critical applications stored in ROM is definitely worth it in the event of a hard reset.

Secondly, memory cards are notoriously slow, so I rather have more data in ROM than on the cards.
Give me 10MB ROM ANYTIME over a 32mb memory card!

RE: $500 should be about right
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:25:36 AM #
I.A.M 10:04:02

>They both have the same RAM as for ROM the japanese >language needs more, english does not so why have it? >Are you out hunting for ripoffs?
>Maybe you should go buy the cheapest, Japanese pda >you can find. I'm sure you will love it.

That is about the dumbest thing I have heard!

What I meant was that Sony is selling a product for well over $100 more (still to be confirmed) with possibly less ROM compared to what it is selling for in Japan.

One CAN use the additional ROM. If your pea-brain has not figured this out yet, tough!

Maybe you should go back to your cave.

RE: $500 should be about right
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 11:52:32 AM #
Ahh, but lets think about this for a second.

Its supply and demand AND import export. A Honda is cheaper in Japan than it is here in the states.

It costs sony a pretty nickle to supply the US with these Clies. It is also a sign that the Clies sell better here than they do in Japan.

RE: $500 should be about right
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 1:25:39 PM #
"Japanese handhelds have to have huge ROMs because of their not very efficient way of writing."

It's another language. It seems inefficient to you maybe because you do not know it? I write Chinese, in some ways similar to Japanese. It's not inefficient, just different.

What about networking? Battery?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 9:04:36 AM #
Are there ANY options for 802.11b on this thing? I recall seeing here that Sony dropped memory stick 802.11b due to power drain. Any 3rd parties going there?

What options are there for extending battery life? Seems they should be able to include some sort of external pack. Without it, the low battery life scares me. I still see PocketPC people freaking out in the middle of the day when battery drains (no offense meant).

RE: What about networking? Battery?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 9:28:55 AM #
The Memory Stick connector probably cannot provide enough power for such a card. That would make it just as impossible for 3rd parties to provide one without external power. A big battery hanging off a Memory Stick slot is kind of a scary thing anyhow. 802.11b expansion options are probably going to be limited to Compact Flash cards or some kind of sled with a built in battery for the forseeable future.

RE: What about networking? Battery?
Palm_Otaku @ 3/25/2002 1:20:21 PM #
Sony offers a CF-sled adapter (PEGA-CF70) with it's own power supply in Japan. Because Sony likes to keep tight-lipped, we probably won't know if it (and/or the Infostick) will be offered to the rest of the world until the product is introduced.

There's also a CF-sled for the "T"-series but it's not offered here (yet?)

Other interesting accessories for the NR70-series include an auxilliary battery pack (PEGA-BC10) and screen protectors (PEGA-SP70)

Check out: http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NR70V/acc.html

RE: What about networking? Battery?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 5:09:35 PM #
I love it when a plan comes together. Palminfocenter came through with a WHOLE story just to answer my original question... or half of it.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3193&MODE=FLAT

too much

eke @ 3/25/2002 9:24:30 AM #
I'm all for meeting people's needs (wants), but this thing is just too much. It's too much money, features, size, battery drain, and complication. Just give me the basics and an excellent screen for around $250 and I, and millions other, will be happy.

RE: too much
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 9:34:29 AM #
I'll second that.

RE: too much
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 9:40:33 AM #
That's one of the strengths of the palm platform. You can get a good handheld for $200 or a loaded to the max one for $500. None of these are the "best". There is no one handheld that is best for everyone. As they kept saying at PalmSource, "Diversity is the killer app".

RE: too much
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 9:44:25 AM #
Go buy what you want then.

RE: yeah right..
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 9:45:55 AM #
Give me a regular car with a Ferrari Frame and race tires under 30000 I'll be a happy guy too.

That day will come...just not in the near future

RE: too much
eke @ 3/25/2002 9:55:58 AM #
I realize that there are numerous choices out there, it just seems that all the innovation and creativity is happening at the high-end.

RE: too much
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:03:40 AM #
The PalmVx was high end at one time.....

Eventually all high ends models become less-high end models.

The quicker the innovation, the sooner the 'downgrades' to less-high end models...

RE: too much
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:04:07 AM #
That's the way it works. New features get added at the high end. Companies want to make those models the most attractive to buyers because that's where the highest profit margins are. Later, the best features trickle down to the cheaper models. If Sony introduced an amazing new handheld with never before seen features for $200, they wouldn't sell many $400 ones.

This isn't a complaint. It's the way it works with lots of products. Cars, for instance. Houses, too.

RE: too much
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:04:26 AM #
Jeez... I hope HandEra produces a color model. Could be a good fit for the business users out there.

Sony will corner the market for those who want a cool device with all the extras (including price).

I have no need for all the whiz-bang features... just give me a good screen, long battery life, lots-o-memory, and the ability to use CF and SD/MMC devices (for serial, Ethernet, wireless, etc.)… So I can eliminate the need to carry a laptop.


RE: too much
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:24:49 AM #
It's called Product Life-Cycle 101

RE: too much
martopiggus @ 3/25/2002 10:59:55 AM #
jeez... gimme a break guys, there are plenty of choices out there, get the m130 that fulfills all your basic requirements. Buy what you want and leave the guys who got the money for these "whizbang" features.

RE: too much
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 11:37:03 AM #
I agree for me the NR70 is too much, esp. in size. I do wish a m515 type Palm came out with the 480x320 resoultion but minus the flip and keyboard. The nice part of this whole deal with Sony is that you have to give them credit for trying to mix up the market. Up until recently most PalmOS units were near clones of each other and PocketPC OS units are even worse for being nearly identical. Now we have choice and that is always a good thing.

RE: too much
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 12:56:26 PM #
Sony's pricing of NR series would be determined by their long-term strategy.

They might price it as $399 and $499 if they want to dominate the high end Palm market. If not, it will be $499 and $599.

$499 would be similar to what 710/760 were when they first came out without the camera.

If I were Sony, I would take the middle road and price them to be $449 and $549 to be competitive with PocketPC devices.

removable battery pack?

crustyedgeofinnovation @ 3/25/2002 9:39:47 AM #
there is a picture on tht linked site of the NR with a little compartment unscrewed...i don't know what it is, but to me it looks like there is the battery in there...if i'm right, i think it is a great idea...a little slot for the battery so that you don't have to open the whole device just for the battery... After heavy use and many syncs all batteries get a bit worn, I like to change mine every six months, this will make it easier on the NR series...it's a good idea...

RE: removable battery pack?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 1:46:02 PM #
The author of the article mentioned the hole on the left hand side of the device seems to be used for battery change, but he was not sure himself.

RE: removable battery pack?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/26/2002 10:11:27 AM #
May be Sony will introduce a better battery ($$$$$$) for us who hungry for longer battery life to purchase....

Pix

mikecane @ 3/25/2002 9:56:24 AM #
http://www.infosync.no has some very hi-res close-up pix of the NR. See pt 3 of CeBIT report.

RE: Pix
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:06:43 AM #
SOME = ONE

RE: It is all over the place in Hong Kong retail store
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:30:46 AM #
Just note today in the computer mall that NR70 ( without camera) is all over the place. Some shops even have a unit on display. On closer look :-

1. it is "big" (the biggest Palm OS device so far ?)
2. it is heavy (even more than Prism)
3. finish is similar to N760C. Keyboard is very nice, though I am not allow to try (no battery - the shopkeeper said :-(

RE: Pix
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:34:33 AM #
Sorry, I saw it in Hong Kong.

RE: Pix
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:37:01 AM #
What is the price in HKG for the NR70 (w/o camera ) ??

Thanks

RE: Pix
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 10:55:28 AM #
lowest reported price for the PEG-NR70 is HK$2980, that's about US$360. that's the approx. the same as the official price in japan, or more accurately, the Hong Kong parallel imported NR70 is slightly LOWER in price than the price in japan.

RE: Pix
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 11:00:41 AM #
Is that model with English, Chinese or Japanese language ?

Thanks.

RE: Pix
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 11:34:27 AM #
Japanese OS so beware. I was thinking of getting one, but since OS might be released this autumn, I am holding on to my N770C.

RE: Pix
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 11:35:20 AM #
Sorry, i meant OS 5 which would have ARM-based processors.

Just give me color GPRS Palm (slab, not clam form)

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 11:52:26 AM #
And you have my creditcard swingin'
This afternoon if you please. Do I really have to wait until summer for the Samsung, or do I have to switch to *cough*Pocket*cough*PC?
J.

RE: Just give me color GPRS Palm (slab, not clam form)
mtg101 @ 3/25/2002 12:43:45 PM #
Ermmm... what GPRS Palm from Samsung? I thought they were sticking with CDMA?

---
russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk

The first $600 Palm OS PDA ?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 12:12:18 PM #
Base on the pricing convention from previous Clies, the NR70 will be $499 and NR70V will be $599.

Forget about converting the currency, SONY never works in that way, if it is $59800 Japanese yen, it equals too USD $460 but will be $599 in US.

RE: The first $600 Palm OS PDA ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 1:15:57 PM #
I'm hoping for $500 and $550 but that could be a pipe dream.

RE: The first $600 Palm OS PDA ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 1:58:58 PM #
I seriously doubt the market would support $599 NR. The up coming LOOX is $599, iPAQ 64mb would probably be sold around $450, while m515 will sell for about $350. There is a possiblity Palm would introduce soon 16mb/66mhz that goes for $499. (it's logical upgrade for the m5xx series)

so the competition is stiff.

RE: The first $600 Palm OS PDA ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 2:07:06 PM #
have anyone seen the new pda running on ce.net os in cebit, it has the form factor of a palm meaning thin, but running on a 206mhz strong arm processor. sources say even at 206mhz the os runs apps much faster then the current ppc2002. dont flame me plzz just thought how funny ms os devices are trying to copying palm now ;]

RE: The first $600 Palm OS PDA ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 3:55:27 PM #
>I'm hoping for $500 and $550 but that could be a pipe dream.

Unfortunately your dream can not comem true...
They would be $499 (NR70) and $599 (NR70/V).

Now you guys believe in me?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/26/2002 1:12:56 PM #
It's showing in Bestbuy's system at $599, not the $460 you guys dreaming about.

What are the other things?

digilaw @ 3/25/2002 1:01:38 PM #
On the Taiwan Clie User Group page, in the first picture below the NR70 box, there is a memorystick module of some kind. Any idea what it is? Also, to the right og the NR70 box there appears what looks like an expansion MP3 player (the container says BC10 I believe). Why would the NR70 need that? Or is it some kind of phone attachment?

RE: What are the other things?
Ed @ 3/25/2002 1:10:11 PM #
The BC10 is a battery charger. The other is the Bluetooth Memory Stick.

---
News Editor
RE: What are the other things?
digilaw @ 3/25/2002 2:23:01 PM #
Ah, thanks Ed. Not nearly as sexy as a phone attachment, huh?

Yet another NR/T screen comparison

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 11:51:28 PM #
http://members.telocity.com/mdhuang/images/NR70-T615.jpg

Could a T series with 320x420 display be in the pipeline?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/26/2002 2:35:54 AM #
Just looking at all these NR pictures makes me balk at the size of the thing. Be honest. It really is BIG. The flipping screen requires soft graffiti, OK, but since Sony now has this display available, would it be too far out to imagine that they may have something of a T series with this nice display in the pipelane?
Johnny Christoffersen, UK

RE: Could a T series with 320x420 display be in the pipeline?
Timothy @ 3/26/2002 7:37:09 AM #
The problem with this is that Sony is so compulsive. Once they decide there should be three lines (300/600/700) they keep it that way forever. I would very much like to see a T series as you describe. Don't know what that would mean for their product line, though.

A thicker T600 type model with bigger battery and two slots is what I was expecting. Such a design might also include the vibrating alarm that Sony inexplicably left off the NR70. A model without the twist display would surely be less expensive, more durable, and smaller. But, how do you showhorn a model between a $400 T615C and a $425 NR70? I think Sony is in a very interesting place, not because of PPC and Palm, but because of the #1 selling PDA in Japan; the Sharp Zaurus. How well the Zaurus sells is the number one factor in this and it is hard for me to follow the news in the US, and not being able to read Japanese.

Anyone from Japan have news of how the new Zaurus is selling there? What the price is in Japan compared to NR70? When the Zaurus camera model will ship and what it's specifications are?

That will reveal the price of the new Sonys.

Incompatibility w/Sonys

PIC mobile user @ 3/30/2002 10:51:08 PM #
I am dismayed with the Incompatibility and differences in technology between the two newer Sony Clie models, 760C and the T615C.

The 760 seemed better thought out for travel. One did not need to buy a charger due to the power adapter being easily disconneted from the cradle and used as a charger. With the 615C, the connetor at base of unit is not the same type as the 760C. One has to bring the entire cradle, adapter, and the combined USB & eletrical cord, or buy a travel charger.

There is not a modem yet for the 615C. The modem for the 760C will not work due to the incompatibility of the connectors.

Joe
RE: Incompatibility w/Sonys
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/30/2002 11:12:26 PM #
you don't have to.
Sony's D connector has 2 inputs (USB and AC power) so you can use the power cord that comes with the craddle (unplug it from the craddle), if you need USB just plug in the USB cord, actually I find it more practical.


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