Comments on: Acer s50 and s60 to Be Available Worldwide (Updated)

Last week, it was revealed that Acer would be releasing its two new Palm OS handhelds in Europe. According to Cnet, the s50 and s60 will be available not just in Europe and Asia but worldwide next month. Both models have hi-res, 12-bit, TFT color screens and Memory Stick slots. In addition, the s60 will have a built-in MP3 player and a voice recorder. The s50 will cost $300 and the s60 will be $360 when they become available in September.

Update: Acer has updated its website to include information on the s50 and s60. It confirms that these models will be able to run non-memory Memory Sticks.

Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (89 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Comments Closed Comments Closed
This article is no longer accepting new comments.

Down

Long live palm OS

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 10:41:17 AM #
Another company, and another handheld thrown into the mix. Nothing breakthrough but it looks like these should be great handhelds. With all this competition the Palm OS seems to be thriving as never before. What is a great thing for all of us.
RE: Long live palm OS
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 11:36:30 AM #
Another chump, you mean. Does any one else see this as an interesting move by Sony? Acer is now competing head-to-head with Sony, and they've got Sony's blessing for it. This is a big move by Sony to promote the memory stick format beyond their own products, which is interesting in itself, but more interesting because its being done on the Palm platform which Sony already is the big mover-and-shaker in. I don't know how Acer can compete with Sony, but my guess is that Sony gave them good terms on the memory stick license, and will continue to do so as long as Acer isn't a real competitor. Of course the irony is that only by being a real competitor would Acer promote the memory stick platform.
RE: Long live palm OS
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 12:29:56 PM #
Or maybe they are just stuck with it.
RE: Long live palm OS
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 1:58:11 PM #
>Another company, and another handheld thrown into the
>mix. Nothing breakthrough but it looks like these
>should be great handhelds.

Couldn't agree more.

12 bit screen?

Moosecat @ 8/21/2002 10:50:45 AM #
Likely story. I bet it only has 11 bits.

But seriously, folks, I think these look pretty cool: small, hi-res, and MP3-capable. The lack of peripheral compatibility is a serious issue, though. Also, Acer -- with its relatively slight name recognition in the general market -- may have trouble making inroads in a market with competitors named Palm and Sony.

Not sure how I feel about the Memory Stick issue. I think that as SD/MMC makes its way into more consumer devices and prices fall, it will be increasingly problematic to be stuck with Sony's own baby.

RE: 12 bit screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 11:02:29 AM #
The thing with MemoryStick is, if you already have a lot of other gadgets (persumably Sony) that uses MemoryStick you would prefer that your PDA does too. Just image if you had a MS digicam or a videocam with digi capabilities. Just take the photo and put it into your Clie or Acer to view. They also have DVD and TVs that takes MS, and not all of them are from Sony.

In a perfect world, we'd all be using one flash format. Frankly that isn't going to happen any time soon. There are companies who still doesn't want to give up SmartMedia and have actually extended it into a newer format.

RE: 12 bit screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 11:21:04 AM #
Sigh...another day, another new model, another new perhpheral connector, another new series of compatability problems.

Do you see my point? Palm OS/Palmsource are never going to achieve world domination, much less wide-spread penetration of the US market if this nonsense keeps up. Greedy manufacturers, only concerned about making a few quick bucks by selling us new cases and styli and cradles each time around have no long-term vision. Sony can afford to keep this up, but the others cannot. Sooner or later, people are going to catch on that this is an endlessly vampiric game of trying to suck the loyal customers dry...and alienating those potential new users. Imagine the confused middle-aged buyer tring to fathom why the equally clueless compusa salesperson is telling him that the m125 is so drastically different from the m105 swo that they cannot use the same cradles/styli. Or, trying to deduce if an m515 will use acessories that only say m500/505 on the packaging. Just think how much Palm has spent updating their MMC card and UC acessory packaging to reflect the new UC-compatible m1xx series and m700s.

For example, the rash of 12 bit screens on the market recently (m130, Treo 90, Acers) will now require some company like Astraware to program their games in 3 versions (Zap 2000, 2012, and 2016, for example) or run the risk that Joe 6-pack thinks Astraware cannot program games properly because his game has all sorts of nasty dithering on the screen. Then there's the fun with Sony high-res OS4 devices vs Handera high-res vs. Acer's OS5 API on an OS 4 device...so if a developer wants to support everything, he has to release 6 "tweaked" versions of his same game/app (or run the risk of having bloated code).

On top of that, we have the fun job of trying to keep track of which units support I/O card functions and which ones do not. Furthermore, there is the amusing task of downloading program updates etc. and the slew (i'm pretty sure) of updates which will be needed by some legacy programs to run on OS 5.

Finally, a minor but worrying aspect is the new upcoming low-end Palm device. If its specs are as rumored, then how are all of the existing games/apps going to handle the 2 missing buttons? Can the plastic buttons and their necessary switches/wiring cost THAT much to Palm in the long run? If they are trying to target the teen/youth market with this device, then they are going to be pretty bummed when their new gadget they got for graduation won't play any action game that requires all of the hardware buttons. Now, if there was a fully integrated D-pad and only 2 "action" buttons....

My post here is not really about the Acer handhelds per se (they look to be quite nice, actually), but rather a statement about what is happening to the industry in general. I think that instead of whining about having a voice recorder or not, or the styling of a new unit, we should be worried about streamlining the standards and increasing compatability across the board, regardless of manufacturer. Perhaps if Palm were to release the UC standard for free...but that will never happen!

RE: 12 bit screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 3:04:47 PM #
It doesn't require a new version of any software. 12-bit screen is hardware, not software. So it can still run any 16-bit apps, they just don't look as good as if they were on a real 16 bit-capable screen.

Thomas Wilburn

RE: 12 bit screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 4:17:01 PM #
Moosecat wrote:
"Also, Acer -- with its relatively slight name recognition in the general market -- may have trouble making inroads in a market with competitors named Palm and Sony."

Only on your side of the pond. You've got to realize that the USA market, although currently the largest, is not the largest _potential_ market. Acer is already producing a Chinese OS Palm and already has Asian name recognition. I keep trying to remind people that China is really big and has a whole lot of people. You've got to think outside your borders.

RE: 12 bit screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 4:34:29 PM #
While you have a point that I agree with (the device manufacturers should spend more time on standards), your examples are not quite accurate.

Palm OS does not support 12-bit. Currently, pixels are either 1-, 2-, 4-, 8-, or 16-bit. Therefore, at the software level, nothing's different; developers don't need to make separate 12- and 16-bit versions of their applications, and it's not even possible if they wanted to.

The conversion from 16-to-12 bit occurs in hardware; the least significant bits of each color get dropped. For all we know, the hardware might even be doing some fancy spatial and/or temporal dithering to create the illusion that it's displaying more colors than it really is. With 320x320 pixels crammed into an area of around 2x2 square inches, you probably wouldn't even notice good spatial dithering all that much.

Regarding the various screen resolution APIs. First, there are only four main contenders: Sony's high-resolution API; PalmSource's high-density API; Handera's QVGA API; and the standard, vanilla 160x160 stuff (which technically isn't its own API, but nevermind that). (I frankly don't consider Handera's QVGA API to be much of a contender anyway.) Note that you don't need separate OS4 high-density and OS5 high-density versions. Applications programmed correctly (that check if a device supports high-density independently of the OS version) shouldn't care.

Second, no one forces developers to support each API. If developers want to support Sony's High-Resolution API or Handera's QVGA API, that's their choice. They need to determine if supporting non-standard APIs is worth the time and cost. Many have decided that it's not.

I'm not sure what you mean by "we have the fun job of trying to keep track of which units support I/O card functions and which ones do not". Properly programmed applications can determine whether a device supports external storage easily without checking the device's model.

RE: 12 bit screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 1:54:34 AM #
Ok, thanks to everyone for setting the facts straight about 12-bit color for me--that's it's handled in hardware and not in software. I'm not a programmer (far from it!), merely just a loyal Palm OS user whose head has begun to swim from so many standards and confituations on the market!

I think that my point was trying to play devil's advocate and show everyone here how confusing the market has become for the average non-techie user. Say, someone who installs an app or game here and there but doesn't get down to the nitty gritty like PIC readers do.

As far as the comment about card slots supporting I/O, it was not really from the standpoint of an app being programmed to recognize whether or not a device is properly enabled, but rather just of a user being able to say "Unit X can support such-and-such whereas unit Y from the competition cannot". This basically goes along with my friend (who works at Best Buy) saying how many returned AGP cards they get from customers furious that it will not fit into the AGP slot-less E-machines/Intel 810-based computers.

For example, using my SD/MS I/O comment, say Joe Consumer wanted to buy a bluetooth Sd card or GPS memstick....assuming they were readily on the market and available at any good mass merchandiser. Joe Consumer would have no way (unless the card's packaging is very concise and he reads the fine print) of knowing that his Treo 90 cannot accept the bluetooth that his friend's m500 Palm is using. You se my point now? Or if "Joe" wants to borrow the BT card for a few days to see how he likes it on his Treo. Same scenario if someone with the new Acer unit wants to try his buddy's Sony memorystick camera/GPS card.


I was just using the further confusion regarding the recent stories of confusion over 12/16 bit screens and whether or not an expansion slot support I/O cards to further my argument about someone needing to set some standards for this market.

At any rate, thanks for educating me about the finer aspects of dithering. One more question, though, can the Sony Clie NR series screens be considered yet another API or does that not really count since there are no apps that support the screen in its full non-Grafitti size/resolution?

What would be pure genius on Acer's part, IMHO, is if they utilized the Sony T-series connectors on the bottom of their new units. This would go a looong way to providing a breath of stability to the market and would certainly encourage manufacturers of peripherals to not be to hesitant about releasing new products (Stowaway keyboards etc) when new handhelds are released. I bought my m505 when it first came out last year and I recall waiting for what seemed like *forever* for UC cables and accessories to be released--anyone remember the eternity we waited for the official Palm hard case to come out? Let's encourage some standardization here, folks!

high density
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 3:10:44 AM #
actually, implementing support for the different screen sizes/apis is the matter of only a few lines of code. check out Memorix 2.02 (www.palmside.com) - it supports standard, sony hires, handera qvga and palmos5 high density (this is done by checking the version of the window manager. if it is >=4, the high density api is available).

Voice Recorder?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 10:58:52 AM #
Finally a voice recorder on a color PALM os handheld.
RE: Voice Recorder?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 11:29:38 AM #
Yes, this is a very welcome addition. As is the replaceable battery and decent up-down button. I'm hoping Sony will suit as these devices are missing a jog dial, something I am NOT willing to give up.
RE: Voice Recorder?
ahecht @ 8/21/2002 11:57:50 AM #
Not only that, but a handheld company finally realized that mp3/voice capability is only worth $60. It is silly for an mp3 add-on to cost more than an mp3 player.

RE: Voice Recorder?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 6:46:40 PM #
Forget voice recording, would be a better device if it had Bluetooth and used SD instead of crappy Memory Stick. The fact it apparently won't be able to use MS I/O cards is a big mistake. Same with the Treo 90 not using SDIO (I know, it's "coming", but so is the GPRS upgrade to Treo 180 owners).
RE: Voice Recorder?
ahecht @ 8/21/2002 8:36:36 PM #
No one said it can't use MS I/O. They only said it can't use the MS camera because of different display standards. The jury is still out on whether or not it could use devices such as bluetooth or 802.11b mem sticks.

MP3 Player
orb2069 @ 8/21/2002 9:24:58 PM #
I have yet to see a $60 player that has a user interface that's even half as good as the WORST UI on a PalmOS machine - Buy one of those $60 CD-based players and try doing something 'complicated' (Like, say, playing the second Clash song in the third subdirectory, or programming a play list) without reading the directions.

As example, on my ($80 when I bought it) Audiophase DM9118, to get to the second song in the third subdirectory:
[File/dir 9 "Space"]
[File/dir 9 "Space"]
[>> 3 G H I]

[File Search/Enter]
[File/dir 9 "Space"]
[ [] 2 D E F]
[File Search/Enter]
...And that's assuming that you KNOW off the top of your head where what you want is, on this disk.

It can do playlists, but I'll be damned if I can remember how without the manual in front of me, which is kind of the point.

If you know of a $60 MP3 player with a good interface, et me know about it, and I'll think about giving you the Audiophase as a gift.

Or maybe that would be a curse. Whatever. :)

RE: Voice Recorder?
useybird @ 8/21/2002 11:04:29 PM #
"802.11b mem sticks."

Who needs to wait for that to come out when the portable wireless can opener is coming one month before the 802.11b MS's come out.

----------------------------------------
Alcoholic: Person with an Alcohol problem.

Workaholic: Person with a Workahol problem.

Why OS 4.1

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 11:03:55 AM #
Why would any company release a unit running Palm OS 4.1 now...? I would expect a lot of publicity from Palm once the new OS hits... and certainly I wouldn't want to be an outdated device that can't be upgraded to the latest OS.
RE: Why OS 4.1
EDisk1353 @ 8/21/2002 11:11:43 AM #
My guess is that the OS 5 handhelds aren't going to hit the rest of the world at exactly the same time. So while OS 4.1's days might be numbered in America, we don't know that it might have months more to live somewhere else.

RE: Why OS 4.1
Liam @ 8/21/2002 11:22:33 AM #
Where is OS 5? When will somebody release a device with it? I feel bad for all of those that said they were going to wait.

Acer? ZZZZZzzzzz.....

RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 12:31:21 PM #
Simple.
Because there is still a thriving market (and will be)
for OS4x devices.
It has already been made clear that at leat initially, OS5 devices will be all or mostly high-end.


OS 4? NO MORE!!!
Foo Fighter @ 8/21/2002 1:45:38 PM #
Good gravy! Enough with this OS4/Dragonball hardware already! Are we EVER going to see OS5 before the end of this year? I've been holding of purchasing a new PDA for ages, just to wait for the next generation hardware, and so far I have seen NOTHING come down the pipe.

Palm, and licensees, have already missed the back to school season. If they don't release new products soon, they are going to waste a sizable portion of the holiday shopping season as well!

RE: OS 4? NO MORE!!!
mentalsrule @ 8/21/2002 2:07:19 PM #
actually the back to school season is from mid august, to early september, i havent even started schoool, let alone by supplies.

you should buy something, and get an upgrade plan from best buy or CC.

just because OS is out, doesnt mean its going to be released for us right away, give it some time, and stop being so impatient, or it will never make it here.

____________________
Ever notice how fast Windows runs?

Neither did I.

RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 2:09:24 PM #
By supporting the OS 5 hi-res API, plus MP3 recording and playback, this device covers many of the features of OS 5 devices with good compatibility.
RE: OS 4? NO MORE!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 2:32:36 PM #
No kidding. OS5 should have been out by now. Let's hope that we see it by October in time for the xmas push, otherwise we can predict that M$ will get a big share of the sales this year.
RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 3:06:49 PM #
> otherwise we can predict that M$ will get a big share of the sales this year.

Wow! You mean they might get over 20%?

RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 5:15:32 PM #
WTF, Handera 330 is still on OS3.5.3 so even an OS 4.0 would be an upgrade let alone OS4.1. The 5 guys who still own one are still patiently waiting for hell to freeze over and Handera OS4.0.
nice pda, but where's OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 6:27:05 PM #
Where's OS5? I wonder who will be the first with a OS5 handheld to market?
RE: nice pda, but where's OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 7:49:17 PM #
Yeah! Where's OS5!
Handera first with OS 5.0 device
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 9:13:38 PM #
I think Handera will release the first OS 5.0 device w/ color. That would explain all the secrecy and also explain why they skipped over OS 4.0, 4.1 etc...


RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 12:17:32 AM #
Ok guys, heres the news you all wanted to hear. My husband works for handera, and he told me that they have a Handheld that has the hi res (320x320) palm with virt. grafiti, with OS5 this device will be the first (after palm) os5 handheld.
RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 1:21:46 AM #
That is an interesting rumor, "anonymous". But nothing that most of us not married to a HandEra employee couldn't come up with. Do you have anything to back it up? How about a pic or two?
RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 2:25:28 AM #
Hmm.. im sure you would want some pictures, but my husband works there, but thats all he said. He did say also that there will be two versions One with the SD/CF slot like the current 330 and another one with the CF slot and either Wi-Fi or Bluetooth
where is os 5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 3:30:30 AM #
what are you talking about? palm os 5 should be out by now? hey! palm os 5 IS out by now! and i dont think a good device can be designed and manufactured and tested and everything within a month (if you dont want to buy crap).

why they still are selling 4.1? i heard of devices being released in fall that have monochrome displays and 4.1 - hey, there's already color! yes, but they still make monochrome devices. why? because people want it! maybe you dont want it, but people do!

the os 5 needs arm processors. they are much more powerful than the current dragonballs. thus, they also "eat" more than the dragonballs. like color "eats" more than monochrome. and some customers are not the gadgetgeeks and gamefreaks we all are, they just want to have the battery full as long as possible

RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 6:30:59 AM #
dangit! I kept my Sony Clie Peg320 and didn't buy the NR70V cuz i was like "Imma wait for the OS5 devices".... waiting, i shoulda bought the NR70V, at least i'll have the color screen.
HandEra and OS 5
Ed @ 8/22/2002 7:43:24 AM #
When I interviewed Mark Kubovich, HandEra's president, back in February, he said his company would certainly be releasing a handheld running OS 5, though he wouldn't go into specifics.

---
News Editor
RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 9:57:51 AM #
Re: the HandEra running OS5, unless HandEra plans to get out of the business entirely, we could have expected as much. Actually I'm more interested in the reported "hi-res" screen (320x320 vs. QVGA). If HandEra drops their QVGA screens, the 330 is dead overnight. But I certainly think it is the right move for them to make if they intend on staying in the game.
RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 8:20:03 PM #
"and he told me that they have a Handheld that has the hi res (320x320) palm with virt. grafiti, "

Hmmmm - if it has virtual graffiti AND supports os 5 hi-res API, wouldn't it have to be 320x480?

RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 10:07:08 PM #
I was talking about the general area of the screen (320X320) the grafiti area is a size of 320X160 , making the screen 320x480. I' just seen the "unit" today, and it looks nothing like the 330. it has more of a look like the edge, but slightly thicker
RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/23/2002 7:32:01 PM #
> another one with the CF slot and either Wi-Fi or Bluetooth

Both would be even better. Tell HandEra that if you have the chance.

RE: Why OS 4.1
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/25/2002 12:40:49 PM #
As I know, Acer s60 is running on Palm OS 4.5, not 4.1.
RE: Why OS 4.1
Ed @ 8/25/2002 12:56:21 PM #
Sorry, this is not correct. Please take a look at ths page of specifications for the Acer s10, s50, and s60:
http://global.acer.com/products/pda/spec_pda.htm

All of them run Palm OS 4.1

---
News Editor

This presents an interesting question....

XScale @ 8/21/2002 10:58:51 AM #
"The screens are compatible with the Palm OS 5 hi-res API, not the one Sony uses. This means they will not be able to use hi-res applications written specifically for Sony models. However, once handhelds running OS 5 are available, more applications will be written to use the OS 5 hi-res API."

So, once OS 5 apps are out in full force using the OS5 fonts and hi-res icons etc., does this mean that Sony could offer a software upgrade for the current models like the NR series which would allow them to use the OS5 UI? That is, you would get the standardized hi-res Palm fonts (as opposed to the too thin Sony fonts) and a new icon set. With these Acer models using the OS 5 API, it seems this might be a possibility, which would certainly make me more likely to purchase an NR70V now, rather than wait for full-fledged OS 5 ARM models to appear, especially if the price drops once ARM units are announced.

RE: This presents an interesting question....
Ed @ 8/21/2002 11:24:08 AM #
I've heard several people say Sony flat out promised at the PalmSource conference in February that it would release an update patch that would let its devices use the OS 5 API. If it did, I missed it but I've got a call into my contact at Sony asking about this.

---
News Editor
RE: This presents an interesting question....
bcombee @ 8/21/2002 1:20:58 PM #
I'm one of the people that remembers hearing this at PalmSource 2002; however, I'm not sure what direction this went -- Sony would patch existing 68K devices to support the OS 5 high-density API, but they also could support their old hi-res and hi-res+ libraries on OS 5 devices they bring out. Either way would be good, although I'm tempted to believe the backwards-compatibility of Sony OS 5 devices more than patches for existing ones.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: This presents an interesting question....
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 2:02:04 PM #
No, the direction of compatibility promised at PalmSource 2002 was allowing High-Resolution applications to run on Sony High-Density OS 5 devices, not the other way around.
RE: Additional Review Comments
EdwardGreen @ 8/21/2002 5:50:40 PM #
I imagine that at release there will be more Sony hi res apps than PalmOS ones, unless some developers on this site want to sugest otherwise.

Having said that we have had the os 5 emulator for some time - not that I have developed anything for over a year anyhow.

-
kHiTeDev

Sony's never been big on forward compatability...
orb2069 @ 8/21/2002 9:17:28 PM #
It dosen't sell new machines, it encourages people to keep their old ones - Which is the exact opposite of Sony's philosophy.

I'll believe an OS5 API patch for the NR70 when I see it, and possibly not then. Have they even done anything about the Memory Stick problems with the NR70 yet, other than that 'patch'?

RE: This presents an interesting question....
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 10:33:51 AM #
>>I'll believe an OS5 API patch for the NR70 when I see it, and possibly not then. Have they even done anything about the Memory Stick problems with the NR70 yet, other than that 'patch'?


good point. however, it shouldn't be that difficult for an independent developer to come up with a patch if sony doesn't.

Just a comment on the terminology

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 11:45:16 AM #
Can we develop a system of uniform terminology for the different screen resolutions out there? Given the number of different resolutions, and the companies trying to claim "hi-res" on devices with a 120x120 screen.

Proposed:

120x120 = standard (or lo-res when/if Palm Inc. introduces a higher resolution standard)

240x320 = enhanced res+SG or e-res+

320x320 = hi-res

320x480 = hi-res+SG or just hi-res+

Over 320x480 = Enhanced hi-res, e-hi-res+ and then super hi-res and super hi-res+

Or something to that effect. Just an idea...


RE: Just a comment on the terminology
ahecht @ 8/21/2002 11:59:43 AM #
This has a high-res (defined here as 320x320) screen. No handheld comes with a 120x120 that I know of

Also, there are already standard names used here:

160x160 -- standard
240x320 -- QVGA
320x320 -- hi-res
320x480 -- hi-res+
320+x480+ -- insane, unnecessary, and not likely any time soon.

RE: Just a comment on the terminology
Token User @ 8/21/2002 11:59:44 AM #
... or it could just be 160x160, 240x320 (QVGA?), 320x320, etc. Hey ... isn't that how they are currently defined?

More importantly is manufacturers getting their definitions right so you get 120x120x2 (standard screen, 2^2 colours) through to 320x480x16 (Sony Screen - Virtual Grafitti, 2^16 colours).

Another feature that might be more useful now is an "inch" measurement like they do for monitors or TV's, since screens are coming out in different physical sizes with the same resolution.

RE: Just a comment on the terminology
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 1:09:24 PM #
"No handheld comes with a 120x120 that I know of"

Sorry about the 120x -- I meant 160x.

"insane, unnecessary, and not likely any time soon"

Sounds like Sony to me. Except the "not likely any time soon" part.

RE: Just a comment on the terminology
bcombee @ 8/21/2002 1:19:16 PM #
Don't forget about the 160x240 screen used on the Samsung SPH-I300 and I330... there's no public API that I know to get at the extra screen space where their virtual graffiti area is, but it is yet another Palm OS screen form factor.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Just a comment on the terminology
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 4:36:18 PM #
Don't forget about this one:

www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3671

which has a wacky 560x160.

Also, in terms of supported programming APIs, there's a distinction between high-resolution (Sony's API) and high-density (PalmSource's API). In that sense, 320x320 devices that support high-density could be described as double-density.

RE: Just a comment on the terminology
jjsoh @ 8/21/2002 6:19:59 PM #
: Also, in terms of supported programming APIs, there's a
: distinction between high-resolution (Sony's API) and
: high-density (PalmSource's API). In that sense, 320x320
: devices that support high-density could be described as
: double-density.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm having difficulty figuring out what the difference is between high-density and high-resolution, other than the fact that they are different API's from PalmSource and Sony, respectively.

Is PalmSource simply coining a different phrase to describe their own high-resolution API to differentiate itself from Sony's?

Jim

RE: Just a comment on the terminology
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 1:56:56 AM #
> I'm having difficulty figuring out what the difference
> is between high-density and high-resolution

There really isn't a hi-res API in OS 5. Hi-res graphics use the exact same APIs that have been there since probably at least OS 3.x plus a couple functions. The "main" difference is that there are APIs to support bitmaps of varying densities, depending on the actual resolution of the screen. Thus the tendancy to use the term high-density when discussing hi-res in OS 5.

RE: Just a comment on the terminology
jjsoh @ 8/22/2002 10:57:57 AM #
Ah.. excellent. Understood now. Thanks for the clarification. :)

Jim
RE: Just a comment on the terminology
bcombee @ 8/22/2002 8:39:21 PM #
To add to this, the APIs in Palm OS 5 are designed to support lots of potential densities, including the 1.5x density of the QVGA screen (240x320) and the 3x density of a VGA (480x640) screen. In this repect, these calls are more future-proof than the HiRes API of Sony or the QVGA calls of the HandEra 330.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

They will be able to run non-memory Memory Sticks

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 2:26:22 PM #
According to Acer's Taiwan website , they will be able to run non-memory Memory Sticks, like Bluetooth, digital camera and GPS system.

-lyt

RE: They will be able to run non-memory Memory Sticks
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 7:20:45 PM #
Its a good thing for sony users then. the more pda that uses memory sticks the more companies will develope devices for it.

GS

RE: They will be able to run non-memory Memory Sticks
peter167 @ 8/21/2002 7:33:46 PM #
According to an insider in Acer, AT LEAST, the SONY bluetooth memorystick will not work on the acer models as of now because SONY has not provided them with drivers. That's what I heard. (It should be okay if the memstick devices are manufactured by someone other than SONY.)

Can someone confirm this?

******************
Lie is the future.

GPS ????
rockaos @ 3/21/2003 4:55:36 AM #
I have this great pda, but I need a gps module for it... anyone know a solution for me???
Is the Sony Memory Stick gps module compatible with acer s60????


THANKS

OS5 icons?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 5:03:11 PM #
The icons in the screenshots look like the OS5 icons.


RE: OS5 icons?
bcombee @ 8/21/2002 5:07:48 PM #
Yes, Acer is using Palm OS 4.1, but with the high-density extensions from Palm OS 5. It makes sense that they would build their icons using the new Palm OS 5 look, since the old-style icons were never available in a double-density form.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

This is what the m515 should have been...

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 6:39:59 PM #
The m515 should have had this hi-res screen/fonts and mp3/sound recorder/player/speaker.

Is Palm hardware asleep at the wheel?

Also - where are all the OS5 devices for back to school buying??????

Sheesh.

Back to school has passed for me...
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 7:35:20 PM #
And I am still waiting for an OS5 unit. This close to the Fall and new handhelds made it seem impracticle to buy an OS4 device. I want to see what Sony has in store for us before I spend.

I would definetly consider the M515 form with jog dial, virtual graffiti, and 320x320 along with OS5. But its Palm, so who knows...

RE: This is what the m515 should have been...
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 8:07:42 PM #
Originally I wanted to wait for OS 5 devices too. But s60 attracted me as it uses OS5 Hi-res API. That's great.

Maybe I'll just get this one, and wait for OS 6, since s60 seems to solve all my needs.

RE: This is what the m515 should have been...
useybird @ 8/21/2002 11:30:13 PM #
It seems to me that most everyone in these forums want a handheld in the Palm V/M5xx form factor. Come on! I want to be a 30-inch waist, but it'll never happen. Big is beautiful! Well, handhelds anyways!

----------------------------------------
Alcoholic: Person with an Alcohol problem.

Workaholic: Person with a Workahol problem.

Keyboard availability

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 8:35:34 PM #
Actually, BenQ (a division of Acer) already makes a keyboard that slides open to full-size, similar to IBM's butterfly keyboard.

It's available for IPAQ, Palm, CLIE (T/NR), and of course, Acer.

RE: Keyboard availability
Ed @ 8/21/2002 8:43:25 PM #
Where is this keyboard being offered? I checked the North American Benq website when I was writing this story and there is no mention of an Acer version of either of its keyboards:
www.benq.com/keyboard/index.html

I also checked the European version:
www.benq-eu.com/Products/

There is also no mention of it on Acer's own website on its handhelds:
http://global.acer.com/products/pda/accessories.htm

I'm not doubting it exists; I'm just wondering where people can find it. Hopefully, it will be released in all the areas where the s50 and s60 are available.

---
News Editor

RE: Keyboard availability
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 11:55:56 PM #
www.darfon.com.tw/product/input4.htm

www.yapn.com.tw/news/thread.asp?forumid=27&threadid=41418

RE: Keyboard availability
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 10:30:36 AM #
Darfon, of course, is part of Acer...

The Compaq branded one can be found at www.compaq.com/products/handhelds/pocketpc/options/keyboards.html

The CLIE and Acer ones can be found locally, but then I'm somewhere in Asia, and these two brands are much more popular here compared to Palm.

ACER Quality Level?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 8:51:40 PM #
What is everyone's impression of ACER in terms of quality/reliability of components/assembly? Weren't ACER PC's crap?
RE: ACER Quality Level?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 9:21:02 PM #
Damn fine, I have used quite a bit of acer and Aopen stuff in the past, (monitors, cd drives, mainboards, etc.) And it has all been excelent, despite the fact that they are a lesser known of asian company, I would be 1st on the list to get an acer palm, especially with MS support, if I didnt already have a 130 and wasnt waiting for a more substantial upgrade.
RE: ACER Quality Level?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 9:39:25 PM #
Acer WAS crap but I think they have evolved from a cheap Taiwanese copycat to an almost "A" class company. Not that they are a Sony - yet. But, I must say over the years they have steadily improved.

They did buy over TI's notebook business a few years back but I think they need someone to give it a Gateway makeover. Their design sense is still lacking. Perhaps they are still after the lower/middle market so the product design reflects that.

RE: ACER Quality Level?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 9:01:09 AM #
Heh, I just remember the atrocities of a few years ago that were the Acer "Aspire" home PC serise. IIRC, they sold fairly well but were an absolute quality nightmare. I still know a guy who keeps around as a linux box, and he's replaced almost everything inside the (cool looking) casing. If nothing else, the Acer name is permanently ensoured to someone like that, who went from a slow but trusty IBM Aptiva to the Acer nightmare. But from what I've read their quality has improved by leaps and bounds over the past few years. I am sure renaming their US retail line "BENQ" is an attempt to distance themselves from "Acer", which would probably scare off more than a few customers at Best Buy (where the Aspires were primarily sold).
RE: ACER Quality Level?
JonAcheson @ 8/23/2002 1:53:32 PM #
My first monitor was an Acer 15", and it was very solid. It wasn't a trinitron, but it held up well over time.

Eventually I gave it away, still going strong.

Jon Acheson


"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

MP3 Voice Recording

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 8:49:28 PM #
Everyone outside the Great China area might never heard of s10, predecessor of s50/s60. With s10, the voice being recorded via the built-in microphone is in MP3 format. Not the M$ .wmv format or any others. It's in pure MP3 format!! What's better is that you can also record to either internal memory or Memory Stick.

With s60 and its built-in 16MB memory and screen turned off (device locked), it can easily record up to 30 minutes of voice quality MP3 (64k bps). With 128MB Memory Stick, the recording duration extends to 4 full hours. All without recharges! If you happen to have 2 of 128MB Memory Stick, with full charged battery, recording 8 hours of voice is not even a problem! Try that with PocketPC...

I was trying to find an MP3 recorder before but either couldn't find one with good user interface, good quality, good battery life, or the price is simply too high. While s60 is only $50 more than s50, if you are going after s50, I would simply suggest to spend extra $50 more for s60.

Now I just wish there is a microphone jack, so I can get a better one (directional one) for even better clearity, though the built-in one serves just fine.

:)

Marky Mark

Why not try Plucker?
orb2069 @ 8/21/2002 9:41:02 PM #
> in MP3 format. Not the M$ .wmv format or any others. It's in pure MP3 format!!

Wow. MP3 takes serious (In Dragonball terms) horsepower to encode in real time. Unless they're using some strange hardware hack (DSP based?), I just don't see how that's possible. If it DOES do this, I'd be curious about the battery life while doing it... I've only seen a very few MP3 devices capable of recording, and most of those have been the notebook-sized Hard Drive equipped models.

RE: MP3 Voice Recording
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 11:35:24 PM #
From the spec of s10, it uses TI DSP (Texas Instrument) that's low power consumption. I've used it to record all the time and am very satisfied with its performance. MP3 does require tremendous calculation to encode in real-time. However, Acer has managed to do so with one additional DSP chip.

Now with s60, I do believe Acer still uses the same DSP chip. With color UI, it would be a pleasure to use it to record and replay!

:)

Marky Mark

Excellent

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/21/2002 11:08:44 PM #
This device looks excellent. For some reason I would have preferred sd/mmc instead of memory stick. I also would have preferred a better cover than what seems to be offered. Why do so many people view the screen cover as an after thought?
I love the battery option, fantastic.

The english specs are online...

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 11:30:18 AM #
http://global.acer.com/products/pda/s50.htm

It will support MSIO (bluetooth, etc...).

It will most probably have greater battery life than the clies (20 "days" announced for the s50).

It will be available worldwide

THis looks like a real winner.

Brice

RE: The english specs are online...
somas1 @ 8/22/2002 3:07:39 PM #

"THis looks like a real winner."

My clie 760's battery is dying and I will need a new palm soon. This would be the perfect choice if only it had a jogdial

RE: The english specs are online...
swinginjonny @ 8/23/2002 3:53:20 PM #
It says that the s60 screen is LCD. Is that a generic term or is it a specific description. Where does that fit with TFT etc?


(Self-confessed Palm Geek)

Not OS 5 - but.......

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 8:41:25 PM #
With the OS 5 hi-res API, could most people tell the difference? The only weak point here is that it uses 33mhz instead of 66mhz. With a 66mhz dragonball this thing would probably run software as fast as an os 5 device running at 150mhz (because of the overhead of PACE). If Acer was to release a 66mhz model - you basically (except for security fetures invisible to the user, and any new built in apps) have an os 5 device.
RE: Not OS 5 - but.......
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 11:36:03 PM #
Well, the other question would be if the Acers use the OS 5 audio APIs. If yes, then the main thing these would lack is the security features, and they might not run that Palm web browser that seems to be for OS 5 only.
Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass: