Comments on: Palm LifeDrive Review

The LifeDrive is the first product from palmOne's new mobile manager category of products. This new class of device is the first PDA released domestically to include a built in hard drive. It's aim is to be a repository for your digital content, be that photos, movies, music or large volumes of office documents. Read on for the full review.

Read the Full Article Text Here

Article Comments

(254 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

...

SaxonMan @ 5/22/2005 6:33:56 PM #

excellent review ryan....
we'll see if i settle for the lifedrive or the axim x50v

regards,
Rainer/SaxonMan

RE: ...LD or Axim 50v

bobbdd @ 5/22/2005 10:38:47 PM #

Please, I'm NOT trying to start a flame war....but I too, am struggling with this same question.

I'd be very interested in the previous posters thoughts and others.

I'm concerned with the new LD's speed to start up the hard drive and wonder if the space can be done with compact flash, SD, etc.

I'm looking for PIM, bluetooth, WIFI, music, MOVIES, primarly and have BOTH the LD and Dell Axim X50v on order.

So, I know I'm on a Palm site, so go gentle and share your thoughts, please.

RE: ...

ggeoffre @ 5/22/2005 10:56:18 PM #

Are you really interested in a Personal Information Manager (PIM) or a Personal Media Assistant (PMA)? The reason I ask is that Palm has one of the best convergence devices on the market, but it is not the LifeDrive it is the Treo 650. The Treo 650 is a true PIM. If you are looking for a true Personal Media Assistant, then also consider looking at the Archos Media Assistant:

http://www.archos.com/products/overview/pma_400.html

RE: ...

Timothy Rapson @ 5/23/2005 10:18:44 AM #

Yep, the LifeDrive and the X50V are about the pinacles of the PDA world and may each represent the best PDAs their respective companies have ever produced.
They now both support native format files and folders.
They now both have hi-res full-size screens.
They both now have a full set of applications.
They offer remarkably similar value.
They each now feature such simple features as screen rotation without rebooting, sleek exteriors, dual storage, WiFi, BlueTooth, etc.

This is the toughest choice ever for PDA buyers.

I won't be ready to upgrade for 6 months to a year. Wonder what these features will be available for by then? I think the race is coming down to price, price, price. Right now, the Axim goes for as little as $360. The LifeDrive will not be available for that price for some time. That might make your decision for you.

RE: ...

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 11:12:59 AM #

>>>This is the toughest choice ever for PDA buyers.

No it's not. You leave out the fact the PPC PIMs (bundled and 3rd-party) are all crap. No, wait: LESS than crap.

Have fun missing all your appointments because the alarms don't go off.

RE: ...

Surur @ 5/23/2005 1:09:07 PM #

Talk about FUD. PPC PIM's are fully functional, and the super PIM's have won numerous awards.

http://www.pocketinformant.com/awards.php

Surur

RE: ...

Khris @ 5/23/2005 6:07:43 PM #

My alarms always go off on my Axim. Perhaps you just don't know how to operate the more powerful PDA's on the market.

RE: ...

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 7:02:38 PM #

Dangle a little bait called Truth and the PPC weenies jump on the hook. They make fishing so easy!

Let's see...HOW many PPCs are out there with NON-FUNCTIONING ALARMS?

That you two happen to have bought THE NEWEST UNITS that might have (or even might not have) fixed that problem doesn't mitigate the fact that MOST PPCs in service DO have that problem. And it's been PPC weenies who have posted about it!

Next!

RE: ...

oneself @ 5/24/2005 1:44:12 AM #

Lifedrive is a better choice, if you need better reliability. You will need to reset only if some kind of bad application will hang, and not each time you use your PDA for more than hour (which is Windows memory issue on desctops or PDA's). About same difference and Win-Mac.

HDD spin, as I've seen on Life Drive is almost same delay as in windows, when you run any application for the first time after reset.

Better battery on LD. If it uses HDD - about same (about 7 hours mp3's you can get on LD and on 50v. if 50v works on 208Mhz=). But if you work with SD or cached PIMs - LD works longer, as it's 416 mhz, 1650mah vs 624mhz, 1100mah.

3D on 50v is advertised feature, but it is supported by 2 games only and probably will not be supported any more.

Dell with CF Microdrive for 4Gb (16g) costs more and weights more. And Dell will not work as flash drive, because transferring files through ActiveSync is very slow, so you need reader and additional wires-moves.

After having TCPMP player Palm becomes in par on video playback with PPC. Other soft is mostly better and-or faster on POS.

LD works with images much faster than Dell (seen it in some reviews).

RE: ...

oneself @ 5/24/2005 2:16:37 AM #

Also LD's screen is bigger. Though it's not VGA, but HVGA.

I wonder which LD's lowest brightness is, as it's too bright to read-see movies in dark on Axim. (look: http://www.hpc.ru/lib/arts/2116/low.jpg).

RE: ...

Surur @ 5/24/2005 3:00:03 AM #

Some of your points are valid, but especially for video the Dell Axim x50v is the best device. You can take movies directly from your desktop at almost any resolution and play it without trans coding. Thats real convenience. No waiting 30 min change to "LifeDrive format"

And hello, PPC's are much more stable than recent Palms. In some of the reviews published here people had devices reset on them while they were playing with them in store! How many soft resets are that per day?

The new OS will have direct X included, which will support the graphics chip.

The battery life issues is real, and its the Dell's great weakness. At least you can swap the battery when its gets low, and you can get a massive 2200 mAh extended battery.

Surur

Get serious Ryan. Is the LifeDrive really rated 8.5/10???

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/24/2005 4:12:34 AM #

6/10, maybe.

------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: ...

jkirvin @ 5/24/2005 12:23:48 PM #

No, it's just not as bad is you wish it were. PalmOne has another potential hit on their hands.

RE: ...

Surur @ 5/24/2005 1:00:45 PM #

Care to put on record how many PDA's you think P1 will sell this quarter? 500 000, 400 000. How many devices (including Treo's) this quarter? 800 000, 700 000? Less?

Surur

RE: ...

mikecane @ 5/24/2005 6:01:35 PM #

>>>ome of your points are valid, but especially for video the Dell Axim x50v is the best device. You can take movies directly from your desktop at almost any resolution and play it without trans coding. Thats real convenience. No waiting 30 min change to "LifeDrive format"

Care to go on record with VERIFICATION of that "30 min change to 'LifeDrive format'" comment?

RE: ...

Surur @ 5/24/2005 6:34:03 PM #

Mike, again, I don't usually say things without "verification".

If your video format isn't supported by Media, you can use the LifeDrive Manager desktop application to automatically convert the video to ASF format while copying it to the LifeDrive's internal disk. Be warned that like many video conversion processes, this isn't fast and is slower than some standalone converters. We converted a 30 meg 320 x 240 WMV to ASF format using LifeDrive Manager and it took 30 minutes, creating a 130 meg file!

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/palmone-LifeDrive.htm

Of course you don't have to convert, but high bit rate video will need to be converted to play on the LifeDrive. Not so on the Dell. Now if 30 megs took 30 minutes, I wonder how long a typical 300MB Dead Like Me episode at 800 kb/sec will take.

Surur

RE: ...

mikecane @ 5/24/2005 7:58:05 PM #

They must have added things since I read that review. That wasn't there previously.

That is APPALLING!!!

RE: ...

AdamaDBrown @ 5/29/2005 1:13:00 PM #

Oneself, most of your information is incorrect. I've had PocketPCs run for 2-3 weeks without needing a reset.

Application start times on a PocketPC vary depending on the processor, model, storage location, program, and screen resolution. If you want to see a fast machine, try out the Axim X30 624 MHz, or the iPaq hx2750--they're as fast as anything.

MP3s off the LD's hard drive last for just over 4 hours. The only way to get 7 hours, at least on my unit, is to not use the microdrive at all. On minimal settings, the Axim will run for 8.5 hours. Also, the Axim's battery is replacable, and you can get a high-capacity 2200 mAh battery for it.

Actually, there are four or five full games that support the 2700G, a couple of video players, and probably half a dozen more demo programs.

An Axim X50v is $360. A 4 GB microdrive is $140. Total is $500, the same price as the LifeDrive. The Lifedrive would have better battery life and the USB drive function, the Axim a better screen and video chip.

In the course of having both models, I've seen no significant difference in the way the two handle photos. Pick your poison, the speed hit of a hard drive versus the speed hit of a VGA screen.

RE: ...

Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2005 9:53:13 AM #

I really wish people would stop peddling this old myth. As someone who has owned both types of devices, it may surprise you to know that a PalmOS device typically needs to be reset more often than a modern Windows Mobile Device.

Now, back in the days before WinMobile 2003 (like PPC 2002 and first generation 2000 hardware), there was a LOT of truth to this. Previous PPC devices that I've owned crashed if you so much as looked it funny. But over the years both the hardware and software has become increasingly more stable, while the reverse has happened in PalmOS's case. Every recent Palm-powered device I have owned in the last two years has been nothing but trouble, belching out Fatal Exception errors, self resets, lockups, and other odd behavior. At least when a Pocket PC crashes it does so for a reason. PalmOS often crashes for God only knows what reason. There are times when I'm using my T5 running some app that the damn thing just stops and resets itself. Quite a common occurrence with VersaMail...especially on the Treo 650. Ah the Treo 650....I LOVE that device but it's about as unstable as a farm tractor hauling a shaky load of Nitroglycerin.

Granted, I no longer use Windows Mobile devices, but I have had various units in my possession at times. So I know what it's like to use both platforms. That's not to say that WinMob isn't without its serious shortcomings, like a retarded memory management scheme that forces you to share RAM with a glutton OS. Thankfully that's going away soon in the form of WinMob 5 (Magneto).

But lets do stop bandying myths about, shall we? Windows Mobile instability is as mythical as PalmOS's supposed reliability.

This has been a public service announcement by Foo Fighter. The more you know....

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: ...

oneself @ 6/3/2005 4:06:58 PM #

I really have too much resets on my T5=( Same as I had on FSC 420 if not more. But if anything works on T5 - it will work forever. And not couple hours like in WM, than you have to reload.

I have an X50v but I use my old Palm

Simian @ 6/5/2005 5:15:52 PM #

I bought a Dell Axim X50v last December and 4 months later I went back to my Tungsten T3. I decided to try Windows Mobile for a while. Built in WiFi sounded good and so did VGA. The X50v was good but it's not a Palm. It was a waist of money but no I know that the grass isn't greener on the other side.

RE: ...Soft Reset

nat187 @ 6/30/2005 7:27:45 AM #

After many hours of reading various forums & playing with different handhelds in stores, I finally made the decision to go with the lifedrive, it was either that or stay with the old trusty , yet crusty m130.

I never had to reset, or had applications reset themselves as many times in 3 years with my m130, as I have had with my lifedrive in not even a week of ownership.
However I must admit to messing with it as much as i can by installing apps and pouring gigs of music at it every night to see what it can do.

Maybe if I stop messing with it..............

We shall see.

RE: ...

MonkeyMike @ 9/6/2005 9:03:45 PM #

As for the codec issue, try this: http://tcpmp.corecodec.org/about

--
http://arpx.net/docs/top_10_palmos_applications - my top 10 palm apps.

Delays!

auto194419 @ 5/22/2005 7:15:04 PM #

The've managed to ruin the best feature of older palms - snappiness. Eh. When my T|T3 finally dies I'm getting one just like it.

RE: Delays!

Baryn @ 5/22/2005 8:03:00 PM #

It has four gigabytes of hard drive space. From what this review is saying, there is no delay in smaller programs like the PIM apps. If you have to wait five seconds for Docs or a media player, it's because the hard drive needs to be accessed. That's reality. When 4GB of flash memory becomes cheap enough to include in a PDA in ten years, then you may complain. Until then, you cannot see a good thing hovering in front of your face.

RE: Delays!

ggeoffre @ 5/22/2005 10:52:33 PM #

Earlier observations pointed out that the proclaimed 64MB that is specified as "RAM" is actually a dedicated Hard Drive partition (a.k.a RAM Drive). If this is true, then more than just opening doc files would be subject to serious lag times.

RE: Delays!

silkentiger @ 5/23/2005 1:04:56 AM #

I really don't understand why Palm1 had to mess with a formula that worked well before. It astounds the mind. Use 128mb/64mb of real ram and the microdrive like a big SD card. This way, you can install programs to the RAM and they will run at normal speed while only accessing your content files (games, books, MP3s, video) will incur delays. I think everyone would be fine with that but slowing down my program launching is a definate deal breaker. :( I think most buyers of a unit like this is like me, will run several different programs one after another. Not reuse the same 5 applications. And the MP3 skipping issue, dear God what were they thinking!? I mean this is a hugely expensive device. Anyone plunking down that kind of money is buying it either as a Palm enthusiets or as a MP3 device with PakmOS on it. Two stikes for both types of users. That leaves only the 3rd category which is the user with more money than sense.

RE: Delays!

Timothy Rapson @ 5/23/2005 10:27:50 AM #

32 MB of real ram won't work for me either. I have that on my Zire 72 and I can't load larger pictures and PDFs because I don't have enough RAM. I need to keep certain apps in that RAM so that they sync. I am not interested in those workarounds that sync from storage cards.
Ah well. Perhaps next years model will offer a real 64 MB RAM, a camera, and lower price.
Not saying this isn't nice, but not for me, not yet. And the biggest deal killers are the price, RAM, and camera.

I wish PalmOne would update the Zire 72 to 73 this Summer, but doesn't look like that'll happen.

RE: Delays!

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 11:16:26 AM #

>>>That leaves only the 3rd category which is the user with more money than sense.

Or maybe me. Who *still* needs GBs of storage and doesn't really give a fek if an MP3 skips now and then. But I've yet to fondle it, so this is a hypothetical assertion (note that "maybe").

Will Mike Cane EVER buy a new PDA (and keep it)?

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/23/2005 3:06:42 PM #

Or maybe me. Who *still* needs GBs of storage and doesn't really give a fek if an MP3 skips now and then. But I've yet to fondle it, so this is a hypothetical assertion (note that "maybe").

Bull. You keep talking about buying a new Palm and still all you have is a 4 0r 5 year old monochrome CLIE. Time for you to put up (and actually BUY something) or S T F U. You've contributed all of $30/year to the Pal economy, Cane. Thanks. You're quite the high roller.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Delays!

rasty @ 5/23/2005 6:10:21 PM #

Actually a RAM Drive is the other way around: emulating a drive in ram. The 64mb on the LD look like just a big swap file!

RE: Delays!

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 7:05:21 PM #

The LD is not generally available yet. My local CUSA sold out of their allotment and other stores have yet to get it. And no, I won't buy online. I need a throat within reach if I need to negotiate a return.

RE: Delays!

benjin @ 5/24/2005 12:27:10 AM #

I agree mr mikecane, I bought the replacement plan too. 6 benjamins is an expensive purchase, but atleast I can settle my griefs locally and sit well with letting people dink with my toy.

Compusa said I get 21 days to decide if I even want to keep the thing.

Gotta say I see no reason to return it yet (5 days and counting - upgraded from a Zodiac which replaced my T3)

RE: Delays!

ggeoffre @ 5/24/2005 11:24:57 PM #

sory rasty, you are correct, a swap file, not a ram drive, i got it backwards

Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

palmdoc88 @ 5/22/2005 7:49:44 PM #

Wouldn't it work better with concomitant Wifi and other BT devices? I thought palmOne licensed it already.

T3 & T5 user

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

Captain Hair @ 5/22/2005 9:03:48 PM #

Better question would be 'Why not Bluetooth 2.0?' There are numerous computers with 2.0 out there, why not Palm?

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

gfunkmagic @ 5/22/2005 10:29:55 PM #

>>>>Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

The reason is that PalmSource has lisenced the BT 1.2 sig for use only in Cobalt and the Lifedrive of course only runs Garnet! However, if PalmOne wanted to, they could have just as easily lisenced BT 1.2 themselves and integrated it into the LD...but since most deviecs on the market still use the 1.1 spec, they choose not to...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

abosco @ 5/22/2005 11:19:02 PM #

They're both compatible with each other. There is very little benefit to using BT 2.0 besides being able to say on the box USES BLUETOOTH 2.0.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + T637

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

gfunkmagic @ 5/22/2005 11:28:14 PM #

ALEX!!! Wassup bro!! :)

>>>>>There is very little benefit to using BT 2.0 besides being able to say on the box USES BLUETOOTH 2.0.

Actually, there are a few things that are definitely better in BT 1.2. (I think BT 2.0 you're referring to was recently released but very few devices are using this). For one thing spec 1.2 supports A2DP (BT stereo headphones etc) and HID profiles (BT keyboards etc) which is not supported in 1.1 afaik. Also BT 1.2 uses freq hopping tech to reduce interference with wifi...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

silkentiger @ 5/23/2005 1:14:07 AM #

Not to mention BT 1.2 offers more battery saving functions.

RE: Why not Bluetooth 2.0?

ChiA @ 5/23/2005 10:34:39 AM #

[i]There is very little benefit to using BT 2.0 besides being able to say on the box USES BLUETOOTH 2.0[/i]

Bluetooth 2.0 is meant to have a transmission speed up to three times faster than bluetooth 1.1/1.2. This is something you regard as very little benefit.

Some Apple and Dell laptops are [b]already being sold[/b] with Bluetooth 2.0. It is a fairly new standard so I guess it'll take most other companies time to adopt.

It was an opportunity for PalmOne to adopt but nevermind, the LifeDrive is an innovative device even without Bluetooth 2.0.

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 11:10:11 AM #

>>>LifeDrive is an innovative device even without Bluetooth 2.0.

Geez, at least let's give them *some* credit for going with *USB 2.0*!

>sound of crickets as we await the PPC weenies to list all their devices with USB 2.0< -- feel free to yawn while we wait.

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

Surur @ 5/23/2005 1:35:55 PM #

mike, wont you ever learn?

NEW Samsung i300 Smartphone with 3GB Hard Drive!

Just found this out from gizmodo.com and mobile-review, seems samsung is about to drop a bomb on us, they've finally showed off their new windows mobile smartphone. It isn't a clamshell, but i think i looks damn nice, very much like the k750i from SE.

From what I can see, these are the specs:

Windows mobile MAGNETO!
1.3mpx camera with flash.
3GB HDD (JUST PLAIN AWESOME!!!).
Scroll wheel navigation.
Video recording (mpeg4).
MP3/WMV/AAC/OGG player.
320x240 262k screen.
Size: 113 x 48 x 20 mm (a bit big?).
Weight: 130 grams.
bluetooth 1.2
USB 2.0
WCDMA/EDGE?

Im not sure about all the specs, don't know russian, but this is what i've come up with so far.

Can't see what else, but the picture seems to be running mediaplayer 10. Strange charger though, doesn't seem to be mini usb.

http://www.modaco.com/lofiversion/index.php/t202845.html

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 2:24:51 PM #

It'll be interesting to see how that HD works with WM5.

But cellphones -- including the Treo -- don't excite me.

Now show me a *PPC* with USB 2.0.

>cue sound of crickets<

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

Surur @ 5/23/2005 2:39:14 PM #

Mike, do I have to excite you?

Unfortunately only the new OS (WM5) support USB 2, so you will have to wait a few months for devices with USB 2 to come out.

Surur

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 7:07:32 PM #

And don't forget those HDs. I *really* want to read the posts about that "persistent memory" and HD combination!

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

m130fullbutcontent @ 5/23/2005 9:04:16 PM #

Gosh, wot a big screen that new Samsung has....not. Not really a true competitor to the LD market - close - but who wants to use lots of visual media with a sceen that big ? You'd ruin your eyes in no time.... :(

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

rsc1000 @ 5/23/2005 11:56:29 PM #

Bah! it runs frekin 'Smartphone' - meaning limiting, non-touchscreen interface without rich controls, etc and no PPC compatibility (i.e. no software!), and an interface marginally better than god-awful Symbian phones.

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

oneself @ 5/24/2005 2:21:25 AM #

Surur, I've seen this phone on exhibition 3 months ago=) Why should anyone need this? for music? I have 20 hours of everything I need on 1gb SD card.

And no movies on the phone.

RE: Why not Bluetooth 1.2?

Surur @ 5/24/2005 2:36:02 AM #

Hey, way to exaggerate.

Its a 320x240 screen. Did all the Treonaughts not brag about how you could navigate the whole thing without a stylus. This device is of course the same. Has to be, hasn't it. I has no stylus. Now I personally prefer PPCPhones, but that does not mean Smartphones are useless.

And yes, having 3Gb of music with you on your phone is cool enough. You will have to carry a phone in any case wont you. And of course it can play video.

The main point is that it shows whats possible, and this will spread to other devices soon.

Surur

No ZEN any more.

neuron @ 5/22/2005 7:59:35 PM #

"but is a departure from what many are used to given the relative quickness of the Palm OS."

"4 and half hours battery life"

I think this review agree much with Bargainpda.com's review. The speed and battery life are real problems.

RE: No ZEN any more.

ggeoffre @ 5/22/2005 11:02:12 PM #

Palm is probably feeling the pressure from other technology markets. The Palm OS was originally designed for Information Management, not Media Management. There are trying to break into a market that they are not the leader in. Both Sony and Apple have the lead here. This may be why so many sub $100 PDAs are being sold by Palm, and the reason that so many competitive PDA manufactures have left the US market. The US pays more for Entertainment now a days.

RE: No ZEN any more.

oneself @ 5/24/2005 2:25:13 AM #

ZEN did not help to keep sells. If you are ZEN fan, use T3-T5 or Treo 600. A lot of people do, but these are not interesting people for market.

Milquetoast Review

Gekko @ 5/22/2005 8:03:32 PM #

Ryan - If I want to read basic specs, I'll go to palmone.com and read their propaganda. Next time tell us what your gut says.

RE: Milquetoast Review

Admin @ 5/22/2005 10:46:20 PM #

I only had so much time to do this, let me know specifically what more you want answered and I will get to it.

I never do battery stress tests like leaving the unit on and looping a file because it doesn't really tell you any real world usage.

RE: Milquetoast Review

ggeoffre @ 5/22/2005 11:07:31 PM #

There have been several concerns posted in these forums about the LifeDrive; including battery life and slow response time (both related to the use of the new hard drive). There is probably no need to review the PIM capabilities of the LifeDrive, everyone can read the specs and expect that this Palm device will perform the same as other palm devices (less the memory and speed issues) in so far as PIM functionality is concerned. But does the LifeDrive really deliver where it comes to the Media aspects of the device. Does the music library management match that of the iPod? How easy is it for a novice user to acquire, manage, transfer and view movies on the LiveDrive?

RE: Milquetoast Review

neuron @ 5/22/2005 11:40:14 PM #

I think you should understand Ryan about this review. Obviously he doesn't really feel that GREAT about this unit. He can't talk too much about the problems of this unit either, in case that many Palmers get hurted.

RE: Milquetoast Review

jkirvin @ 5/23/2005 9:27:48 AM #

Not to mention that any balanced and objective review won't be negative enough for some of the posters here. They want blood, and they will have it!

RE: Milquetoast Review

Gekko @ 5/23/2005 9:34:27 AM #

Heeeeee's baaaaaacck. I thought he took his ball and went home. Hey kirvin - Nagel got fired - now's your big chance to run the company, know-it-all.

how's your forum site doing? more than 3 posts there yet?

RE: Milquetoast Review

jkirvin @ 5/23/2005 9:50:40 AM #

Alas, I came back because of the Nagel thing and the rampant misinformation about the LifeDrive's speed (go see one for yourself before you believe anything!). I knew I'd take a hit from the haters, but I'll do my best to ignore them and help inform the rational readers of PIC...

Got tired of listening to the crickets on your site, Kirvin?

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/23/2005 10:06:26 AM #

On our last episode, jkirvin barfed:

--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7748#105783

Sunday, April 10, 2005
PalmInfocenter and Astroturfing
PalmInfocenter Detailed Comment View (7748)

It's sad when good web sites go bad...

I'm never reading PalmInfocenter again, Ryan. You can't keep the trolls from engaging in personal attacks, and frankly, I've had enough and have better things to do with my time than deal with those wingnuts. I don't mind dissenting opinions, in fact I love them. I love a good debate. But these people aren't debating. They're engaging in personal attacks. They're trolls, pure and simple.

For those of you that don't read PIC (and you ain't missing anything), I've been personally attacked quite a bit recently by cowards who won't use their real names. My crime was saying nice things about PalmOne and PalmSource, which can't be allowed by this group of sad, bitter people.

However, I do feel compelled to state, for the record, my relationship with PalmOne and with PalmSource. I doubt the bitter will believe me, but for those you that still have open minds...

My relationship with PalmOne is purely that of a happy customer. I don't work for PalmOne in any way. I don't even get review units from them, although I'm certainly going to ask when they announce the Life Drive.

My relationship with PalmSource is a little more complicated. I have done some consulting work for them, for which I collected my one-time fee. I have also interviewed to replace Chris Dunphy as their Director of Competitive Analysis, and didn't get the job. They recently filled that position with someone from Transmeta. I no longer have any financial dealings with PalmSource at all. I am on an invite-only mailing list populated with PalmSource employees and folks that run Palm-oriented websites. There is no financial impact from being on this list.

That's it. I'm not being paid to shill for either company. In fact, if anything, losing out on the job at PalmSource could have made me bitter and antagonistic towards them.

But I'm better than that. I say what I say about these companies because I believe it. I'm a big fan of Palm OS and I'm a happy PalmOne customer. And anyone who doesn't like that is entitled to their opinion, but I just don't have time to listen to them anymore.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Why don't you apply for Nagel's job now? I'm sure having an amateurish blog qualifies you to run the company...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

Ready to apologize to Ryan, me and all PIC readers, Kirvin?

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/23/2005 10:18:08 AM #

Be a man (for once) and apologize for your previous dumba$$ attacks here.

Do you have the guts to admit you were wrong, or will you pull your usual coward routine of cheap shotting people and running off to your mama's house to hide under the bed?

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Milquetoast Review

Scott R @ 5/23/2005 10:36:10 AM #

...getting back to Ryan's point...

Ryan, I agree with you about real-world usage patterns and battery life, but remember that palmOne is labeling this as a "Mobile Manager" and with a 4GB HD, music and video playing is going to be a big reason for most of the early adopter Palm OS fans who buy one of these. So, I do think it would be important for you to do a couple of stress tests. I would recommend the following:
1) Create a playlist of numerous MP3s (to ensure that it doesn't just buffer them all in RAM and still needs to access the HD periodically) and see how long it will run. Of course, letting the screen turn off automatically is perfectly acceptable.
2) Play a full-length movie and/or several 1/2 hour shows with brightness set to max (one test) and brightness set to some lower level that you deem acceptable (separate test) and see how long you can go before the battery dies.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

Jeff to Voice: UY,YDAMF!

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 10:59:09 AM #

Parse that!

At least, that's what Jeff *should* say.

>>>Be a man (for once)

-- as if YOU ever were?!

Ha-ha-haaaaaa-hah!

Swish away, Widdle Voicey.

RE: Milquetoast Review

cbowers @ 5/23/2005 1:20:49 PM #

Agreed, ScottR, those *would* be expected real world usage of the LifeDrive. Now that it's targeted as a media player, playing MP3's or video to battery exhaustion fits within normal usage.

RE: Milquetoast Review

cbowers @ 5/23/2005 1:24:32 PM #

I dunno Jeff, I have to say that while I disagree with the fervor and personalness of the "anonymous" dissenters to your posts, I have generally tended to agree with the comments. I appreciate the effort put into your podcasts and posts, but your presentation seems overly focused on defending the companies and you miss or gloss over the substantially valid points being made. And your presentation seems to leave the impression that debating would be nearly as pointless as your responses to your "anonymous" dissenters.

I'm just suggesting that from my lone viewpoint your debate could benefit from a view of the issues from several steps further back.

I also have to say that your out for blood comment, underscores your cynicism of the user base. Truly, if PalmSource and PalmOne would find their way from making the same mistakes over and over, the userbase (at least the dissenting portion of it) would be much appeased. I remember days of greater happiness in the land. But in those days I recall a licensee that listened directly and personally and built a product that not only fit me, but compared well to the competition (palm and non-palm), and brought new features to the platform (and shared them with other licensees).

RE: Milquetoast Review

cbowers @ 5/23/2005 2:06:23 PM #

BTW, that's my real name.

RE: Milquetoast Review

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 7:09:29 PM #

VoR: Hahahahahahahaha. Thanks for the laugh.

RE: Milquetoast Review

Gekko @ 5/23/2005 7:50:45 PM #

>"And your presentation seems to leave the impression that debating would be nearly as pointless as your responses to your "anonymous" dissenters."

cbowers - very well said. his arrogance kills me.

RE: Milquetoast Review

jkirvin @ 5/23/2005 10:23:35 PM #

My only real beef with the haters is that they are just that. They offer no constructive criticism, they just attack. They demand things that obviously will never come to pass (PalmSource and PalmOne are both in business to make money, not to appease a niche), then bring down the thunder when they don't get their way.

I'm quite open to civilized debate, ask the denizens of my WOYP Google Group. But that means debating the issues, not attacking the person. The former simply doesn't happen here all that often.

And btw, if the stuff I'm hearing in the grapevine is on target, party over Nagel's departure while you can. There's an excellent chance he was let go because he wasn't focusing on smartphones *enough*, which means there will be no rebirth of handhelds.

RE: Milquetoast Review

cbowers @ 5/23/2005 11:37:16 PM #

"My only real beef with the haters is that they are just that. They offer no constructive criticism, they just attack."

No I'm saying my beef is that, that's all you seem able to see in them. You dismiss the points so readily I'm not sure you even see them. And I say that because much of the time I find myself as the target of your podcast rants at least indirectly. And much of the time I just find myself shaking my head at how dismissive you are to a lot of valid points, and just plain dead wrong on others. While I agree that the missives are misguided in their personal nature (and I tend to steer clear of those), I see the very valid points being made in them and re-resonate many of those. Taking your comment at face value, I perceive that you're only seeing the venom and missing the points within. But then that's the problem with that approach, and why it's not the most effective tact (ahem to the anonymous attackers). But perhaps Hell hath no fury like a spurned palm evangelist.

"They demand things that obviously will never come to pass (PalmSource and PalmOne are both in business to make money, not to appease a niche), then bring down the thunder when they don't get their way."

Bah, rubbish (not to put too fine a point on it). What I see is more often than not, they demand things that the competition is already doing, and at a lower price. If PalmSource and PalmOne *want* to make money, they need to figure out how to do the same or lose even more of their lost platform advantage. And they demand the innovation and listening to the customer (and not just the bottom feeding walmart/AOL crowd buying up low end Zires), that former licensees did before they were priced out of the market.

"I'm quite open to civilized debate, ask the denizens of my WOYP Google Group."

Not been there, perhaps I'll have to stop by.

"But that means debating the issues, not attacking the person."

Agreed. But take the good with the bad, and the dull with the deft. And I think more leading by example is in order. Perhaps we can ignore the venom and still address the message? There is some very sound arguments in some of those missives, and perhaps it wouldn't get so intense if it was actually heard.

"And btw, .... which means there will be no rebirth of handhelds."

Oh jeeze. Getting me started on our first debate point are we?

RE: Milquetoast Review

jkirvin @ 5/24/2005 12:00:03 AM #

Okay, this I can deal with. Thank you for keeping a civil tone.

Which podcast rants did you feel were directed at you? I'd like to discuss your thoughts on that.

RE: Milquetoast Review

Surur @ 5/24/2005 2:51:56 AM #

Jeff is a palm apologist of the worst kind. He expects you to be loyal to the Palm brand, while only expecting PalmOne and PalmSource to think about profit.

If P1 only has to think about their wallet, and this excuses all their penny-pinching and stupid engineering, why should users have any emotional reasons for buying Palm, instead of pragmatically thinking about the best devices out there?

Surur

RE: Milquetoast Review

Alpha1220 @ 5/24/2005 6:55:15 AM #

Hey guys, question: When did it suddenly become okay to gang up on a guy on a HANDHELD BOARD?

Maybe I'm missing out on the history or something [because I don't pay that much attention to the backstory that goes on in these comment sections ... I'm of that crazy 'old school' sort that values discussion and comment that are on topic as opposed to BS ;)]

Listen to podcast 24: the man is clearly not being an apologist for Palm. In fact, it seems to me he takes a balanced track, since he: a. admits that he was overly enthusiastic about the LD based on specs, b. negatively critiques the unit based on what he has heard about the product, but, most importantly, c. takes a wait and see attitude until he personally can get a hold of one of the little beasties.

A Palm apologist would be pumping the latest and greatest, regardless of whether it is a brick or a wonder.

Fill me in if I'm off base in saying that people should welcome anyone to the board -- if one person skews slightly negative, another skews slightly positive in their outlook, but it all balances out and it contributes to informed discussion, which is why we're here in the first place.

RE: Milquetoast Review

jkirvin @ 5/24/2005 12:27:08 PM #

Thanks, Alpha1220, but it won't make any difference. I've refused to drink their Kool-Aid, and they hate me for it. Surur's a PPC troll, that I can understand. But I don't know why VOR and Gekko can't stand it when anyone says anything positive about new Palm devices.

BTW, my "fondle report" on the LD will be posted shortly on WOYP. I still need to test battery life for myself, but I'm impressed. The lag thing is a myth, I can confirm that.

RE: Milquetoast Review

Surur @ 5/24/2005 1:17:26 PM #

But I don't know why VOR and Gekko can't stand it when anyone says anything positive about new Palm devices.... Surur's a PPC troll, that I can understand.

Does swooping in and making an insightful comment make me a troll? I guess that is how you would see things.

Surur

RE: Milquetoast Review

rye&ginger @ 5/24/2005 2:31:59 PM #

palmOne and palmSource are coorporations. It is their number one mandate to make profits for shareholders, by LAW. Other factors are secondary. Debate can be made on the best way to ensure long term profits, but looking at how the most profitable co. opperate, consumer demand is usually not a factor (MS, Walmart, etc..)

As fans of Palm hardware and OS, its hard to come to grips with that buts its the truth.

RE: Milquetoast Review

Alpha1220 @ 5/24/2005 3:16:56 PM #

Sorry about the rant, but:

Consumer demand is most definately a factor for a business the size of PalmOne IF IT WANTS TO STAY IN BUSINESS (not trying to be contentious here, but this should be said).

Depending on which market you're looking at, MS is at worst a monopolistic firm, sometimes a duopolistic firm, and, at best an oligopolistic firm.

Walmart often has spatial monopolies.

In both these instances, you're absolutely right, they don't have to respond to consumer demand; they can play with output levels, price schedules, etc.

But Palm doesn't have this luxury. Given the size of the marketplace and the presence of several other competitors, Palm absolutely must respond to consumer demand, at least in the MR.

Lol, I suppose I should emphasize though, that the key phrase is "IF IT WANTS TO STAY IN BUSINESS". If that's not a goal, then we would call that ... umm ... suicidal ideation in the market? or something snappy like that.

A debate should focus on whether or not Palm is addressing consumer demand, making sure to realize the presence of specifically targeted markets, both mass scale and otherwise. But the assumption should always be that Palm must address demand to survive. I pray to God that the people in the boardroom at Palm/PalmOne still remember this from their intro econ courses.

Grrr...

mikecane @ 5/22/2005 8:16:26 PM #

>>>On the top middle portion is the status LED. It pulses orange to indicate hard drive activity and green for WiFi use. It also lights up orange when the unit is off and plugged into the charger but does not change when fully charged.

Geez. In a **$500** machine!

>>>while more robust apps can see up to a 5 second wait at maximum

Ach. How long would I wait on an OQO... and that costs $2K!

>>> I was disappointed to discover the LifeDrive still uses the same old fashioned pilot 1000 alarm sounds for the calendar.

Why should this be surprising? Hah!

>>>One problem I had was with listening to mp3's in the background. Anytime I switched to another application or the device read from the hard drive would cause the music (being played from the HDD) to be interrupted by short, yet annoying, pauses and clicks. This only happened with files on the HDD and not files on an SD card. It sounds like the drive may have some issues with multitasking and listening to music off the hard drive.

Argh. But at least it doesn't stop while on the SD. But really, the whole point of the HD is...

Well, I still need to fondle it myself...

RE: Grrr...

jkirvin @ 5/23/2005 9:28:43 AM #

Yes, Mike, you do. Trust only your own eyes, there's too much misinformation about this already.

RE: Grrr...

cbowers @ 5/23/2005 1:46:08 PM #

I guess a review is only as good as the review unit, and the reviewer it's sent to. Seems PalmOne has a hand in both.

I wonder if there's not a role for greater involvement of the Palm User Counsel here though in a number of areas.

RE: Grrr...

benjin @ 5/24/2005 1:31:54 AM #

My LED turns Green when fully charged.

RE: Grrr...

Admin @ 5/24/2005 8:23:24 PM #

hmmm, thats odd mine hasn't ever turned green after a full charge.

RE: Grrr...

mikecane @ 5/24/2005 8:33:40 PM #

More evidence review units aren't as good as the ones owners purchase...

License DECUMA ON SPOT, dammit!

mikecane @ 5/22/2005 8:58:51 PM #

If you nitwits at p1 aren't going to relent and give us back Real Graffiti, at least copy Sony and throw Decuma Alphabetic on the damned device! And make sure it uses the DIA area, dammit! Right now, it will NOT work on the latest devices, and when it did, it rode ABOVE the DIA.

You pack of autists DO know that it runs on *PPC* and uses the SIP, don't you?!

Hey -- TATTOO that first paragraph on your FOREHEADS so you can't look in a mirror without being reminded!

I'm sick of this G2 crap and having to pray for someone with guts to hack G1.

Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan...

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/22/2005 9:13:26 PM #

I hope you update this review in a week or two once you've been able to use the LD regularly for a month, Ryan. Remember: a lot of people base their purchasing decisions on what you say, so a lot more detail (e.g. timed battery life tests using just Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, MP3, regular non-wireless apps etc.; commenting on Wi-Fi strength; further analysis of the arcane memory architecture; side by side comparisons of the screen to competing models; evaluation of build quality; testing processor and hard drive speeds; detailed evaluation of how good the included apps are; bug reports (Data Mangler, etc.); stress testing hard drive (e.g. open contacts, then play an MP3, then open contacts, then play another (different) MP3; open large [multi MB] document stored on Microdrive, close it, open another large file on Microdrive); stylus quality; OS stability (did you experience any crashes during your testing?); security strength; reset times, etc., etc.)

A lot of people rushed out their reviews of the LD so they could be among the first on the web to say something about the device. A lot of those reviews are fluff. ("Fantastic" fluff. ;-O) Delaying/updating your review should allow you to include the depth and breadth most others lack and would be much appreciated by those depending on you for a no holds barred review.

A comparison test between the LD, Zodiac 2, CLIE VZ90, Tungsten T3, Tungsten T "5" and European CLIE TH55 at a later date would be revealing...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan

LiveFaith @ 5/22/2005 10:37:01 PM #

Wow VR, that's impressive. Could you provide us with a list of all the reviews that YOU have done so that we can see how you execute all your great ideas?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan...

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/22/2005 11:11:37 PM #

Yes, I could but then I'd have to... kill you.

When I review PDAs I try to do it from a power user perspective (more info rather than less) and then let the summary explain to newbies whether or not the PDA is a good buy. While there's nothing wrong with fluff reviews, it's nice to read a well-written, comprehensive review - especially on a device as important as the LD.

Here are a couple of (in my opinion) well-written reviews of the TH55 for you to compare. I think other reviewers would do well to try and emulate the thoroughness of these reviewers:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6604

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=1969

http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/sony-th55-en.shtml

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

More CrapRAM™. Great. Just great.

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/22/2005 11:36:32 PM #

How about more in depth analysis of the dumba$$ memory architecture, Ryan?

As I posted elsewhere, the LifeDrive has the same Rube Goldberg-style memory allocation seen previously on the Dungsten T "5" and Treo 650, only it's been notched up another level. There is 32 MB of NVFS CrapRAM™ that - like on the Dungsten T "5" and Treo 650 - is broken down into 16 MB for the PalmOS to be inflated into when the device is turned on, and 16 MB for heap memory and space for active apps to play with. Then the 4 GB Microdrive is split into a true storage area and a bogus 64 MB CrapRAM™ partition that is hoped to lessen the overhead (slowdown) of using Microdrive by caching frequently/recently used apps for faster access. At least that's how I understand it ;-O

By using the BogusRAM 64™ MB hard drive partition instead of giving users a healthy dose of RealRAM™, Palm has needlessly created a new set of speed problems that will be anathema to traditional Palm devotees.

Rule #1: Never cut corners where customers will notice it...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan...

Alpha1220 @ 5/23/2005 12:06:42 AM #

For all the great things about this site/its contents, I'm going to have to agree: the review was lacking.

As said above, many many people are making basing their decisions on 'trusted' review sources, and their is a large onus of responsibility on those sources to come up with depthful reviews, whether they are positive, neutral, or negative about the product.

I see very little that differentiates this review from those released in the early hours of the product launch several days ago. Very briefly, here are things that could have been covered and were not:

- Bluetooth/Wifi interoperability
- What the devil is going on behind the memory structure
- Dependability of the harddrive
- Any changes to Garnet in 5.4.8
- At least a tacit acknowledgment of the variant reviews coming out on Lifedrive, some positive, some negative, and the source of this
- Screen quality
- Multimedia conversion steps/options included inbox
- Presence of new security features on the device
- Addressment of the 'hard reset=goodbye drive' issue
- Variation in the 400mhz X-scale and the 416mhz X-scale: are these different chipsets? 16mhz improvement? What's going on here
- 3rd party options for media with this unit (in the reviewers opinion)
- Finally, how about a bit of thoughtful analysis on this release, its viability, the signs it shows for palm, etc.

Should this all be included in a single review? Maybe, maybe not. Should much of it, or things similar in depth be so covered? I believe they should. Look, this isn't amazon.com or the NY times: people come here with the expectation of truly informed comments on these little electronic wonders we call PDAs.

I salute the site in general, but I expect more from it than this, and hope it will so be in the future.

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan

silkentiger @ 5/23/2005 1:16:20 AM #

I would also be forced to agree here. I've been reading pretty much every review of this device that has been released. They are all pretty much the same. I was expecting more from PIC.

On the other hand, I seriously appreciate the detail you have gone into in terms of confirming the dumb-ass memory system of the Lifedrive. That tears it for me and I am not getting one. So maybe the review was enough from that perspective.

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan...

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/23/2005 1:40:03 AM #

If Ryan is unable to update thus review (VERY few online reviews ever get updated/revised as further experience is gained with a device) it will be up to Palminfocenter readers to post their real-world experience.

Mine was disappointing, but because it wasn't with an "official" production model, I'd suggest you take it with a very large grain of salt. In my less than 5 minute "LifeDrive test drive" forcing Microdrive access and switching rapidly between Microdrive, BogusRAM™ and CrapRAM™ caused unacceptable delays and even crashed the device.

The screen seemed OK, but was still inferior to the CLIE VZ90, Dell X50v and even the CLIE TH55.

Once spinning, the Microdrive served up continuous media flawlessly. I didn't have time to test the background playing of MP3, but the stuttering described by others when using the Microdrive for Palm apps at the same time as playing MP3 isn't surprising.

$500 and no cradle? Wow.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan...

Admin @ 5/23/2005 1:48:47 AM #

With all the hypercritics here (myself included) it was not easy to cover every little feature in one all encompasing review. As I get to torture the unit some more I will post and update article that addresses some of the concerns.

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan...

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/23/2005 8:00:41 AM #

...it was not easy to cover every little feature in one all encompasing review.

"That's not a bug - it's a feature."

;-O

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan

Sam H @ 5/23/2005 8:29:46 AM #

As I get to torture the unit some more I will post and update article that addresses some of the concerns.

Thank you.

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan...

Alpha1220 @ 5/23/2005 9:01:47 AM #

Thanks for commiting to updating.

Also, I second what TVOR said: I think that (sigh, as in the case of the last few units amongst the community -- not specific to PIC either) a good understanding of this product is going to come from users giving feedback once some true production models start circulating. Good example: T5. Whether you're a critic or a proponent, you can see that it took a while for the dust to settle, so to speak, with regard to the ins and outs of it.

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan

silkentiger @ 5/23/2005 9:59:11 AM #

Thanks Ryan, that is seriously appreciated!

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan...

hkklife @ 5/23/2005 11:05:04 AM #

Thanks, Ryan!

Are you currently using the LD as your primary PDA on a daily basis?

Has there been official word yet from P1 regarding the conflicting OS revisions floating around on the review units?

RE: Sounds like you pulled your punches in this review, Ryan

jkirvin @ 5/25/2005 2:58:34 PM #

Alpha1220, I addressed your questions in my Fondle Report:

http://www.solomedia.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1305

Improvements needed

vesther @ 5/22/2005 10:12:19 PM #

Sure the LifeDrive made a good impression, but here the improvements:

* Vibrate!!! Gee, why not on this baby?
* Improved LED--Blue for Bluetooth, Red for HDD Usage, Orange for Charge, Green for Full Charge, and Yellow for Wi-Fi.
* Western Digital-made Mini-Hard Drive. I'm assuming that the Hitachi HDD used on the LifeDrive only has a 2MB Cache. Wouldn't you rather use a Western Digital Mini-Drive that has an 8MB Cache instead? Maybe increase the Cache to between 8MB-16MB for the next LD Release? Otherwise, the abmyssal cache could be the reason there's a huge delay. I'm a fan of Western Digital drives and drives with generous read-ahead cache, that's why.
* Firewire Support. Period.
* 802.11g and Bluetooth 1.2 Compatibility. Don't you prefer to get "things" done in a hurry? ARGH!!!!
* Decuma Alphabetic. Why not on the LifeDrive? Crashed like hell on the palmOne Tungsten C and crashed like cats and dogs on the Tungsten T5. Zi and palmOne needs to start working together as I am sensing a sudden disturbance in the living Force here.

For now, I'm going to give the LifeDrive some slack since this is just the first incarnation of a brand new concept but I'm going to be expecting a lot more things from the LD in the future, though.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002

RE: Improvements needed

vesther @ 5/22/2005 10:19:37 PM #

Oh yeah, I forgot an improvement needed for the next line of LifeDrives:

* User-defined Partitions, which the user is free to set the partitions anyway he/she pleases.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002

RE: Improvements needed

LiveFaith @ 5/22/2005 10:40:22 PM #

vesther,

Pretty impressive there. I would say that P1 probably opted to deal with the 8-limit find bug instead. Next iteration may actually deal with the Pilot 1000 alarms. In 2017 I hear the clipboard limit will be doubled or even tripled with Garnet OS 5.9.9.9.8.7!

Actually P1 aint Sony or Samsung. They are little fish in the big tek pond, so it's really hard to expect every feature to push the cutting edge. It would be nice, but not realistic I'm afraid. They have to pick their battles effectively or profits are history.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Improvements needed

gfunkmagic @ 5/22/2005 10:54:40 PM #

>>>>* Vibrate!!! Gee, why not on this baby?

Umm...vibrate feature on a device with a spinning HD wouldn't be too smart eh?

>>>>* Firewire Support. Period.

Only apple people care about this...

>>>>* 802.11g and Bluetooth 1.2 Compatibility.

Juat be thankful there is 801.11b on this thing! Look above for BT 1.2 explanation

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Improvements needed

vesther @ 5/23/2005 8:44:04 AM #

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Removeable Battery and, if possible, Interchangeable Drives via Compact Flash.

Not sure if it's possible, but if Interchangeable Drives is not a possibility, then I would understand, but at least a Removeable Battery.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002

RE: Improvements needed

Surur @ 5/23/2005 8:55:46 AM #

Interchangeable drives are impossible with the current scheme (as your 64Mb memory is on there), but if they make major changes it should be possible.

Surur

RE: Improvements needed

BuzzWriter @ 5/23/2005 9:06:44 AM #

Excuse me, but there are some Mac users out here - and speed matters. As for the firewire issue being a Mac-only concern, you need to let all those 3rd party card suppliers know that Firewire speed doesn't matter. For that matter, Dell offers laptops with firewire and IBM offers firewire-ready hard drives. But then, the LifeDrive also uses BT 1.1, which also doesn't support the wireless keyboard and mouse that have been making my T5 more useful for capturing data on the go.

Mac user, marketing communications specialist

RE: Improvements needed

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 11:19:28 AM #

Re: WiFi & BT -- I'm *still* waiting for someone to try the BT keyboard *while* online with WiFi. Why is this basic test being overlooked? With the OQO -- which includes both -- owners have reported interference between the two when run simultaneously.

RE: Improvements needed

cbowers @ 5/23/2005 6:47:00 PM #

Doesn't have to be interfering. I would expect if it is on the LifeDrive, it's the OS implementation.

My Apple Powerbook has BT 1.1 (note not 1.2), and WiFi, and there's no interference when I'm surfing or network browsing while using a Bluetooth keyboard (or hotsyncing, or doing BT phone related tasks).

RE: Improvements needed

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 7:00:47 PM #

Yes, as does other hardware, which makes the OQO problem all the more puzzling. And if a *$2K* unit can do it -- why not a $500 one?

RE: Improvements needed

Surur @ 5/23/2005 7:02:27 PM #

Maybe its simple proximity, which should make interference more of a problem with smaller devices, especially handhelds. BT 1.2 specifically addresses this problem.

Surur

More clear explanation about LD memory architecture?

gfunkmagic @ 5/22/2005 10:32:51 PM #

Okay so there is 64 MB of "progaram memory" which is on the HD and 32 MB of volitile SDRAM which the user never sees. However, afaik not all of the 32 MB of SDRAM is used as cache. Other PalmOne devices with NVFS also only have 32 MB of actual SDRAM, but it is divided into separate DB cache/Ram buffer (10 MB) and dynamic heap (6 MB) with the rest used to store the uncompressed rom image. Thus, the Lifedrive memory architecture should be almost exactly the same as the T5 with the exception that the T5 uses Nand while the Lifedrive is using a HD:

Tungten T5:
NAND Flash (Total Size = 256 MB)
Boot Code (< 1 MB)
Compressed ROM (14 MB)
User Data or Storage Heap (64 MB)
Internal Volume (178 MB)

RAM (Total Size = 32MB)
Decompressed Rom (16 MB)
DB Cache Area (10 MB)
Dynamic Heap (6 MB)

The Lifedrive should be similar according to the above information:
Hard Disk (Total Size = 4 GB)
Boot Code (?)
ROM (16 MB) User Data or Storage Heap (64 MB)
Internal Volume (3.85 GB)

RAM (Total Size = 32MB)
Decompressed Rom (16 MB)
DB Cache Area (10 MB)
Dynamic Heap (6 MB)

The difference in performance between the T5 and the Lifedrive is probably due because the DB cache on the T5 is kept in sync with Nand while on the Lifedrive is is kept in sync with a slower HD...

If the above speculation is true, then IMO PalmOne has made a mistake by not increasing the size of the DB Cache. Can anyone else here confirm or correct the above representation of the Lifedrive memory? Thanks...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

More potential Hardware hack

TrafficGeek @ 5/22/2005 10:53:58 PM #

hmmmm...one wonders if the battery placement will permit replacing the back panel to one with a battery compartment and make the battery user replacable...

...likely need some connector changes also...can't wait to get my hand on one and start the inspection...

RE: More potential Hardware hack

gfunkmagic @ 5/22/2005 10:58:08 PM #

If is uses the same internal battery as found in the Treo 650, then you should be able to hack it and replace it with higher capacity batteries like those found for the Treo...hopefully that is...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

Some Questions for Ryan!

athreya @ 5/23/2005 7:23:51 AM #

1) Can the lifedrive be used for making PPT presentations to an external display? Whats the output port?Is it possible wirelessly using any software or device (accessory)? Does it come with a remote? Whats the best presentation software available for this in the market today?
2) Is the HDD response response TRULY slow enough to make it a showstopper?
3) Is the email client, always on, all the time, like Blackberry? Does email get PUSHED or is it PULLED?
4)Im planning to purchase the virtual keyboard? www.vkb.co.il to go with this. How does one assess compatibility of the device?
5) Whenever Skype mobile gets released, is this compatible with it?

thanks a lot. I am an old and loyal fan of your website from India. Made all my decisions after reading your reviews only.
Cheers
Athreya

RE: Some Questions for Ryan!

jkirvin @ 5/23/2005 9:31:31 AM #

Many projectors support WiFi, so yes, this should work.

2) Is the HDD response response TRULY slow enough to make it a showstopper?

NO. Try one for yourself to see.

3) Is the email client, always on, all the time, like Blackberry? Does email get PUSHED or is it PULLED?

Pulled. But it can be pulled at specified intervals automatically and it's completely transparent. One of those examples of the multitasking Garnet's not supposed to be able to do if you believe the haters.

RE: Some Questions for Ryan!

athreya @ 5/23/2005 9:46:11 AM #

thanks a lot.
but if it is just a wifi connection one would need to stand next to it to advance the slides.

has anyone any experience with IRma Infrablue or the Margi presenter to go or the Pitch Duo on Palm OS? thanks

RE: Some Questions for everyone!

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/23/2005 10:28:00 AM #

1) http://www.margi.com/products/prod_ptg.htm

2) Depends on how you plan to use your PDA and how much waiting bothers you. Only you can answer that question.

3) Email is PULLED. Palm is trying to get true push email going on the platform, but was slow to get on the bandwagon. They will now have to license RIM's technology in an effort to compete. (Check out Seven, Good Technologies, etc. for some decent email solutions. Even cheaper: Snappermail set to automatically pull your email.)

4) Email the company.

5) Skype is not expected for PalmOS any time soon. Given the processor speed + Rube Goldberg-style memory architecture, it's debatable if Skype could even work acceptably on the LD even if it was available...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Some Questions for Ryan!

cbowers @ 5/23/2005 2:08:16 PM #

"(Check out Seven, Good Technologies, etc. for some decent email solutions. Even cheaper: Snappermail set to automatically pull your email.)"

Even cheaper, Versamail (included in ROM) set to automatically pull your email (even allows you to set the hours between which it will do that).

At least assuming they haven't pulled that feature from the version in my Tungsten C's ROM. And here's hoping that they also fixed all the bugs that they refuse to for Tungsten C users.

RE: Some Questions for everyone!

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/23/2005 2:37:02 PM #

Even cheaper, Versamail

I was assuming he wanted a good app (SnapperMail) rather than to become a bug catcher for Palm with its VersaMail...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Some Questions for Ryan!

athreya @ 5/23/2005 3:31:19 PM #

thanks...

any tips on PPTs? somehow information on that is scarce..the margi's website is well known but im told they are phasing out that product..dont know compatability with the LD...

RE: Some Questions for Ryan!

cbowers @ 5/23/2005 4:11:13 PM #

Don't know if phasing out is an issue if it solves today's problem on today's hardware. I've been using the SD Margi to Go version for a couple years now, and not been back to the Margi site since. I imagine that will continue for the next couple years regardless what they do with the product. It's current requirements are an SD slot (with SDIO). I've used it on both PalmOS 4 and 5. I don't see any issues barring it's use on the LifeDrive.

The other solution involved a small box connected via with universal connector (not useful for the LifeDrive), and ran a small 386 processor. It was touted by the quickpoint/quickoffice folks. It was about the same price. Now however they don't seem to mention it. And the PalmOne Canada site has dropped any mention of universal connector accessories, and there are few mentioned on the PalmOne US site.

However I see they have a bluetooth version available now, that may be your route to go. See the igo pitch bluetooth version here:
http://store.palmone.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1343478&cp=1157588

My 2 cents

mikvo @ 5/23/2005 2:08:40 PM #

Well, I finally stopped by CompUSA today and played with the LifeDrive myself. Here's my impression (about 15 minutes of hands-on experiementing).

Background: I have been using a Tungsten T for amlost 2 years. My wife has a T3, and I have also used that a little, but most of my experience is Tungsten T.

First of all, size. I have heard everything from "not as bad as I expected," to "wow, what a brick!" I lean more towards the former. Side-by-side with my T|T (clear plastic case on), the thickness was very close. With a similar case on the LD, the thickness would obviously increase. But it really didn't seem to bad. Length was almost identical to my T|T when open.

Performance. Perhaps it's all relative, but I ran through every application that was on the thing from PTunes to DocsToGo to all the PIM apps, to the Media app, to VersaMail, to Blazer (surfed the web for a while), and I saw no delays anywhere close to what I experience every day on my T|T which runs most apps from an SD card. Granted, it was 15 minutes. And granted, there was not much in the way of PIM data on it. But I was extremely satisfied. If I was used only to a T3, perhaps I would feel differently. I'm not. And I didn't. WiFi in the CompUSA store seemed very acceptable. My T|T / Bluetooth setup at home doesn't hold a candle to the performance I experienced there. Blazer worked extremely well in both optimzed and non-optimized modes.

Would I prefer the form factor of a T|3, or even T|5? Yes. Would I prefer full flash memory to a HardDrive for maximum performance? Yes. But I can say, as a T|T user, that I was in no way disatisfied by the performance from my brief test run. I'm not ready to run out and by one without more information than just that, but I thought I provide a brief perspective from someone isn't used to the fastest of currently available PalmOne devices.

Virus Question

Ba-gug @ 5/23/2005 3:08:41 PM #

Just curious, with the HD on the LifeDrive do you think we will see new viruses like those on a PC?

RE: Virus Question

cbowers @ 5/23/2005 7:03:49 PM #

The storage media has nothing to do with the issue. So no.

Discussion more enjoyable without iPoo

jlshelton @ 5/23/2005 7:30:35 PM #

Is anyone else tired of the iPoo press release?
How about keeping the discussion to the topic: review of PalmOne LifeDrive?

RE: Discussion more enjoyable without iPoo

Gekko @ 5/23/2005 7:49:39 PM #

yes. it was played-out months ago.

RE: Discussion more enjoyable without iPoo

mikecane @ 5/23/2005 8:06:43 PM #

You don't get it. He's FOS and it's the only purgative he gets!

Size!

AJG @ 5/23/2005 9:20:39 PM #

Now I understand that this particular device itself has a rather large volume due to it's battery and HD. I'll cut PalmOne slack for this guy. I am concerned with where they are taking the size of their PDA's! I started out with a Palm Vx. It is still my favorite next to my TT2. It was so hot and so small. Sexy design comes in .4 inch thick. Awesome. Then I went to the m505. A little thicker; .5 inches. Noticable but no big deal. And now I'm onto my favorite of them all, my TT2. Not only cool looking, but collapsable. Only .6 inch thick; again a little thicker but not a big deal. But where does it end? How thick are these things gonna get. for me, the size is huge. I want small. Pocket size gizmos. My TT2 is nearly perfect in every way. Here though the T5 got bigger, the E2 got bigger and now this this is just plain big. Again, I'll cut them some slack for what this is capable of, but can't we get back to sexy little pda's like the Palm Vx? Key word *little*. But thank you for bringing back the aluminum case. I don't like plastic for my PDA or computer. Just my opinion though. :-)

-AJ

RE: Size!

oneself @ 5/24/2005 2:47:35 AM #

YES! HP1940 was last hit in this kind of size. Still popular in hp4150 and fsc 420 form. No solution from P1 for this kind of market (small size, big screen) yet...

Personal Battery Experience

benjin @ 5/24/2005 1:38:13 AM #

WIFI

I work in a phone support center and manage 40+ techs (at any given time.) We use MSN to communicate, so I configured my lifedrive with Chatopus and let it run non-stop. Then I can roam the office answer questions as they come to me via MSN (in person, graffiti 2 responses are too slow.)

No hard drive usage I'd immagine, except when I used the palm to do other things (while Chatopus 'multitasked' in the background - Chatopus is a robust program, it prevents auto-off and turns off the display instead.)

I got 5 hours and 15 minutes of continuous usage before the wifi shutdown from low power (6%).

If I had a cradle, I could easily have the thing last a whole workday with the normal stops I make at my desk to recharge the thing.

If I ever do a hard-drive-intensive test, I'll post results here.

RE: Personal Battery Experience

oneself @ 5/24/2005 2:46:42 AM #

It's interesting=) With my FSC 420 I have less than 3 hours.

RE: Personal Battery Experience

Surur @ 5/24/2005 3:37:11 AM #

Its good, but thats consistent with his large battery, and not doing anything that would churn the hard drive (such as switch apps or loading/saving data). He would not get the same while surfing the web for example, due to constantly saving cached data to the HDD.

But yes, 5 1/2 hours is very good for screen on and WIFI. (Was the screen mostly on or off?)

Surur

RE: Personal Battery Experience

benjin @ 5/24/2005 5:17:35 PM #

The screen only pops on when a message is received (or when using other functions of course) SO the screen was mostly off.

I tried using the hold button to prevent the screen from turning on when I bumped a key, but I was constantly turning the unit off when I just wanted to turn off the hold.

Java?

millarj @ 5/24/2005 11:08:30 AM #

Sorry for the newby question: Does Blazer 4.1 on the LifeDrive support java applets?

Thanks!

Puff piece

tthiel @ 5/24/2005 1:06:30 PM #

This review was nothing but a cheerleading puff piece. This device is a loser in so many ways.
1. Few people will pay $500 for a Palm with a 4 GB drive. They have no need for it. There remains a large gap between this device and the E2 and the T5 ain't it.
2. Seek times are around 6 secs from most testers and it gets worse not better as you use more apps.
3. Pathetic battery life.
4. Bluetooth 1.1????
5. No cradle???? For a $500 device???

Pass.

RE: Puff piece

Admin @ 5/24/2005 8:29:54 PM #

1. You get a lot, you pay for it
2. Most of the seek times were less than 3 seconds max
3. I would not call the battery life pathetic, more mid-range and it's all going to depend on your daily usage pattern
4. Not that much of a big issue
5. I agree

RE: Puff piece

Ba-gug @ 5/25/2005 11:24:20 AM #

Although I don't think it is a "puff piece" it is not for me, so I will be sticking with my T3 till the next Palm is released.

"Hambug or Ba-gug, that's me.!"

RE: Puff piece

jkirvin @ 5/25/2005 3:01:32 PM #

I just SO don't understand the people passing on the T5 and now the LifeDrive to stick with a T3. I owned a T3, and it was *pathetic*. The battery life sucked, the build quality was shoddy at best (how many screws do you still have in your T3?), and the slider was a loose, floppy pain in the ass.

Why does this craptastic device keep such a fanatical following?

RE: Puff piece

mikecane @ 5/25/2005 3:39:39 PM #

Speeeeed. Every time I played with one, its raw speed astonished me.

RE: Puff piece

jkirvin @ 5/25/2005 5:22:56 PM #

Hmm, interesting. I certainly have no complaints with my T5, though it does bench a hair slower than the T3. Doesn't seem like enough to counter for all the things the T5 and LifeDrive do so, so much better than the T3, but to each their own.

RE: Puff piece

Gekko @ 5/26/2005 9:12:06 AM #

MikeCon - Agreed. The T3 is the FASTEST Palm out there. It's RAW SPEED is amazing and blows every other Palm away. Obviously, a big part of the reason is because it's not hobbled by NVFS/Flash/Hard Drive and a cobbled together FrankenGarnet. I need SPEED and RELIABILITY.

The unemployed, socially-awkward people with 12 contacts and 9 events just don't get it.

RE: Puff piece

radleyp @ 5/26/2005 2:10:17 PM #

Jeff, the answer to your negatives is very obvious. What the T3 has over the T5 and clearly over the LD is SIZE! I have long carried a pocket diary, and its primary feature must be that it goes in a pocket (jacket, shirt or front pants). Any PDA MUST do that as well, or I pass on it. The T5 does that OK, the LD not at all - which is why the LD is out for me - but the T3 does it best. Nor do I understand all this griping about missing screws - four of us in my office have T3's and no one has had this problem. Where did you carry your T3, in a paper bag? I find the T3 design ingenious, and the T5 design ordinary. I must also note that I do not use, and never have used, a case: the flip cover is ideal, because it keeps the unit small (and my pocket provides enough protection). I am, BTW, astonished at your reference to the T3 as "c..p" - and I think if you look at comments all over the Palm sites, you will find most people saying that word more correctly describes the T5. Philippe Radley

RE: Puff piece

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/26/2005 9:53:11 PM #

The unemployed, socially-awkward people with 12 contacts and 9 events just don't get it.

What are "contacts"?

;-O

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™

RE: Puff piece

DavisC @ 5/31/2005 1:10:59 PM #

Well, after five days, I returned my LD. The delays for disk access were just too aggravating. Example: Bejeweled would get interrupted during gameplay for about 2 secs while the device would access the disk to display the "Bonus" screen. I was averaging 3-5 seconds for program access. BAH! I'll wait for the next generation. Meanwhile, I'm still stuck using my M$ device.

RE: Puff piece

hkklife @ 5/31/2005 2:08:20 PM #

Gekko;

If you are looking to nit-pick, I think the T|C is actually a few hairs faster than the T3 for some odd reason but that's basically irrelevant. I had been running my T3 drastically underclocked to save battery life. After playing with some of the newer Palms (T|E2, Treo 650, Zire 72) recently, I clocked mine back to 400mhz and was again blown away by the snappiness.

Have you given any thought to sticking a higher capacity battery in your T3 as seen on th Brighthand forums?

Sometimes I scare myself

mikecane @ 5/24/2005 5:46:12 PM #

RE: more memory
mikecane @ 5/2/2003 7:03:09 PM

*sigh* Even if Palm SG offered a 128MB PDA, that would only be *catching up* with PPC -- the GENIO GD (PXA255) in Japan has had 128MB for two months. And there was a GENIO model (PXA250) before that with 128MB too.

Let's have a model with a multiGB hard drive built-in. Now *that* would be something. Hmmmm... the iPalm (copyright by and trademark of Mike Cane -- heh heh).

RE: more memory
mikecane @ 5/4/2003 3:26:14 PM

>>A hard drive sounds nice though I am sure it sucks batteries dry.

Hello! How frigging long does the drive spin to dump a multi-MB song from itself to the iPod's RAM? This is not read-off-the-Microdrive-and-kill-the-batteries PPC-like stuff I'm talking about. It's spin-up, read, dump, spin down. It CAN be done -- especially with the 1500 mAh batteries Palm SG is using. Or the ones Sony is using in the NZ.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=5320

-- it just took them TWO FRIKKIN YEARS to catch up!!!

===============

But VoR [aka The Ugly Truth] is always good for a laugh...

>>>I expect a purchase by Sony [of palmOne and PalmSource] before January 15, 2004.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=6117

But JKingGrim Scares Me More!

mikecane @ 5/24/2005 5:53:54 PM #

RE: more memory
JKingGrim @ 5/5/2003 2:36:50 PM

>>>>A hard drive sounds nice though I am sure it sucks batteries dry.

>>Hello! How frigging long does the drive spin to dump a multi-MB song from itself to the iPod's RAM? This is not read-off-the-Microdrive-and-kill-the-batteries PPC-like stuff I'm talking about. It's spin-up, read, dump, spin down. It CAN be done -- especially with the 1500 mAh batteries Palm SG is using. Or the ones Sony is using in the NZ.

Great! Then my Palm turns into a PPC. No more execute-in-place. Say bye bye to Palm OS Efficiency.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=5320

RE: Sometimes I scare myself. No, you scare EVERYONE.

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/24/2005 9:52:07 PM #

But VoR [aka The Ugly Truth] is always good for a laugh...

>>>I expect a purchase by Sony [of palmOne and PalmSource] before January 15, 2004.

The Palm "split" was a sham, Cane.
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

Sony left when it was obvious the OS was going nowhere fast and that they couldn't control it. Sony's financial problems and the desire to focus on PSP were two of the final nails in the CLIE coffin.

Your "predictions" show how clueless you are, Cane. The few things you've got right over the years were merely stating the obvious, or things that were already happening. Making accurate predictions in tech industries isn't easy, but your record is HORRIBLE.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=2754
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4641
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6395

2002:

- Apple will license Palm OS and produce a "Palm OS Companion."
- Palm will abandon the low-end and mainstream consumer markets.
- Java! The very word gives Gates and Ballmer indigestion.

2003:

- Sony Drops Memory Stick
- Dell & Gateway Do PalmOS

2004:

- Oracle Corp. Acquires PalmSource & palmOne
- Opera for PalmOS
- PDA Fuel Cells Arrive

And if you want to get into a pundit war, The Ugly Truth would utterly DESTROY you. Don't invoke TUT's name in vain. You might not like the consequences of conjuring him/her up...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Sometimes I scare myself

cbowers @ 5/24/2005 11:39:02 PM #

"Hello! How frigging long does the drive spin to dump a multi-MB song from itself to the iPod's RAM? This is not read-off-the-Microdrive-and-kill-the-batteries PPC-like stuff I'm talking about."

Not long, but it's enough that if you do it frequently you'll kill the batteries. My 3G ipod indeed has a 7-8 hour battery life but that's only using Apple's prescribed test. Meaning about a CD's worth of songs (12 or so) in a playlist set to loop over and over, encoded at 160Kbps, at medium volume, EQ off. Change the variables and the battery life is less. Plus, what if your data reading isn't serial and predictable? On an iPod a playlist let's the ipod read ahead to fill the buffer 32MB (which I gather is more than the lifedrives cache space). The hard drive will likely rarely spin up.

However, jump around and listen to a few songs from this CD, a few from that one, use some EQ, a little backlight (remember this is still a small power sipping 1 bit 160x128 monochrome screen), and listen to more reasonable encoding rates for someone with more refined ears, like 192-224VBR and your battery life is about an hour and a half.

No wifi, no bluetooth, no large color screen, no 400+Mhz processor (dual 90Mhz ARM actually), etc. Just a HD spinning up frequently, and a processor decoding MP3 and AAC.

For reference the ipods battery is about half the capacity (850mAh)

RE: Sometimes I scare myself

radleyp @ 5/26/2005 2:57:26 PM #

Where did you get this hour and a half stuff? Did you perform a test of some sort? Or is it that every minute or so you changed tracks? I do have pretty good ears, and I listen to lots of different things on my iPod (from books to composers who went to sonic extremes, Richard Strauss to Terry Riley), and I have never experienced anything of the sort. Besides if you are really into good sound, why are you listening to mp'3 encodings at all? Philippe Radley

RE: Sometimes I scare myself

cbowers @ 5/27/2005 12:23:22 AM #

"Where did you get this hour and a half stuff? Did you perform a test of some sort?

Yes, I have a 40Gig 3rd Gen iPod. And just the way it is.

"Or is it that every minute or so you changed tracks?"

Nothing so regimented. Just usual usage when you want to listen to a lot of different stuff, and when more often than not, things are played in random mode.

The only time you get Apple full rated battery life when you use it as I stated above, excepted from Apple here: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61475

For most, that's not normative use. If I was going to play a CD's worth of medium quality songs, over and over, I wouldn't be doing it on an iPod, but rather a cheap portable CD player, or perhaps a Flash player.

"Besides if you are really into good sound, why are you listening to mp'3 encodings at all?"

You'll note the absence of "MP3" in my post. High bit rate AAC, and Apple Loss-less format, where appropriate, through Shure E3's or my Home Rig. Takes up more of the 40Gigs, but there you have it. The better the systems you listen to your music through, the higher the fidelity the source media needs to be because the flaws are more apparent and distracting.

Another way of getting a couple hours or less out of your iPod is booting Linux on it to play your music (but more than likely to do other stuff). Probably closer to an hour than two.

Check the specs. It's just a plain fact that HD's have a sizeable power draw. The only way to mitigate that and the latency is via cache. It'd be nice of there was a bit more of it in the Lifedrive.

I wonder how long before a McPhling type app comes out that lets you choose favorites to keep in the cache, rather than just the last 5 apps, or whatever it is...

Palm dropping support for LD?

sr4 @ 9/1/2005 7:16:10 PM #

LD owners have been getting by with the poorly fitting T5 cradle for some time now, and have been awaiting the advertised LifeDrive specific cradle that was "coming soon". It now appears that Palm confirms there will be no LD cradle at all, despite advertising it initially.

egidius
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Berlin, Germany

This is the pretty disappointing news I got from Palm yesterday, so I guess it's final:
"Thank you for contacting Palm Technical Support. My name is Flordemay and I will be assisting you with your issue. I understand that you would like to know if a new cradle kit for LifeDrive™ has been developed. I also understand that you would like to find out when the ROM update for LifeDrive will be released.
We appreciate your feedback. This will help us improve our products and services. There is no new cradle kit for LifeDrive. There is currently no update available for LifeDrive. But I suggest that you check www.palm.com/us/support for updates on LifeDrive accessories. Rest assured that we would definitely announce new accessories as soon as they are available."

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?p=849154#post849154

What do you do to a failing product line? Cut your loses?

Surur

RE: Sometimes I scare myself

hkklife @ 9/1/2005 8:35:22 PM #

Palm's only hope of salvaging something from the LD debacle (IMO, the company's worst misstep since the m500 SUDS days):

1. Issue an LD patch IMMEDIATELY. Whatever that patch doesn't fix, KEEP patching until it's at least as stable as the T5 is currently

2. Discontinue the LD immediately and offer a bundle of a cradle/extra styli or case and a LD for $400 to clear our remaining stock.

3. Release (sometime in calendar '05) an LD2 w/ all of the patches in ROM, a cradle in the box, at least 2x the RealRam cache of the first LD, and a 6gb Microdrive. Launch it with a slightly compelling MSRP of $450ish and hope for the best.

4. Know that flash-based storage is still the best choice for PDAs. By year's end 2gb SD cards will be under $100 (they are $110ish now for generics online). By this time next year, 4gb cards should be ~$200 and offer BLINDING speed compared to the MicroDrive. Retreat from the "HD-in-a-PDA" concept until near-iPod size & capacities >20gb can be achieved.

Life Drive mods?

jbeedham @ 5/24/2005 6:34:28 PM #

I am curious where the CF Drive is sitting on the inside and if it would be possible to take it out and swap it with a solid memory state Compact Flash card.

I am starting to wonder if it would be a better to buy an el cheapo Zodiac 2 at Fry's for $269 and then put a wifi card and 2gb sd card on it(until the 4gb ones come out). Not sure if the wifi drivers are available for Zodiac 2 though.

-------------------------------------------------------
Proud owner of a Sony TJ-37!

Write cycles.

orb2069 @ 5/26/2005 9:11:36 PM #

Flash ram blocks (unlike hard drives) have a finite number of write cycles - Which would get eaten up every time the system spins down and caches it's ram, every time anything changes or updates. At the end of six months, you'd probably have to pull the drive and reformat it just to mark off all the failed blocks - Failed blocks that would be periodically mangling your data when the system tried to save things over them.

1000->Personal->IRUpgrade->TRGPro->HE330->Treo 180

RE: Life Drive mods?

cbowers @ 5/27/2005 12:46:27 AM #

6 months eh? NOT!.

I guess the T5 is doomed to a 6 month life span then...
Firstly there's no data corruption or reformatting. The blocks are handled by the memory controller on the card blocks are taken out of service (and sometimes remapped to spares) in the normal course of use. The flash will over a very long time just show less and less available space. No reformatting.

Besides that, flash memory controllers use wear leveling, spreading the writes out over the memory blocks (in part why de-fragmenting is somewhat pointless as the controller works against you). This way no one block gets written over and over. Where this breaks down is when there is little unused space left in the flash memory to spread the writes over.

Even still each block has enough write capacity the in all likelihood outlast the life of your device.

Just thinking back to my Old Palm's and HandEra devices, and the hundreds of times an OS was flashed to that small flash rom space. But worse in terms of "wear" the nightly use of FlashPro, BackupPro,. Apps and data rewritten into the remaining flash rom space (with little room for wear leveling), nightly.

Suffice to say, if you can work 800K to 4MB flash as hard as I have over time, without any failures, Joe Palm user is not going to see any pre-mature drive failure, of large multi-MB/GB flash volumes where wear leveling can spread out and do it's thing.

RE: Life Drive mods?

rsc1000 @ 5/29/2005 2:42:35 AM #

>>Not sure if the wifi drivers are available for Zodiac 2 though.

They are - check the tapwave site for the download.

Oops. PalmOne beat to their next LifeDrive rev already...

cbowers @ 5/25/2005 1:16:26 PM #

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000750044526/

Also note the price PalmOne...

PalmSource/PalmOne has hinted at tablets for quite a while. Yet again, they had all the pieces and failed to just do it.

RE: Oops. PalmOne beat to their next LifeDrive rev already...

cbowers @ 5/25/2005 1:23:06 PM #

A hoot to read the comments already on this one:

"Same price as a Palm T5 but with 3x the resolution, Wifi+BT, and Linux OS... SOLD!"

"i have been waiting for u all my life baby... come to papa... goodbye LifeDrive..."

"This is the device I need to keep in the living room. Guess what my wife is going to get for Christmas?"

"With an addition of PIM software and a note taking app, I'm sold!"

PalmOne, PalmSource, absent licensee that PalmSource won't woo, where were you on this product type?

RE: Oops. PalmOne beat to their next LifeDrive rev already...

Surur @ 5/25/2005 1:55:49 PM #

My god, that thing is lovely! At that price I'm definitely getting one!!

Surur

Dreeeeeeaming

mikecane @ 5/25/2005 3:36:45 PM #

Palm has been having Nokia Dreams.

And now Nokia is having Palm Dreams!!

Nokia didn't give up after the NGage disaster. Whatever shortcomings V1 of this device has will be fixed for the next rev. Get a GB HD in there and we've got something. It already has a better OS *and* browser than the LifeDrive. And probably HWR *better* than that Abomination from Hell, G2!

Hell, if the Linxheads can fix up a way to attach a pocket drive to this version, who needs -- or wants -- the LifeDrive after this is out?

RE: Oops. PalmOne beat to their next LifeDrive rev already...

HunterHawk @ 5/26/2005 10:52:39 PM #

I like nokia products a lot. If this had come out at he same time as the lifedrive, I probably would have bought it instead.
UNIX/Linux would be great, the screen is bigger, and nokia knows how to build radio devices with excellent battery life.
Opera beats blazer hands down.

BUT, this is nokia we're talking about, so if past experience is any indication, this thing won't be seen in the US this year. It may be available for import, e.g. from expansys, but
by the time they tack on a small premium for their service [which is quite good BTW], it will probably cost more than the LD.

So far the time being, the life drive has one incredibly important feature the nokia doesn't, and that is you can buy a life drive. Comparing an existing product to something this far on the horizon is fun, but really not all that useful.

Nokia's warning shot to Palm

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/26/2005 11:35:47 PM #

"Hey Palm: you make a phone again, we break your legs. Capiche?"
- Pekka Ala-Pietilä

Debian + Gnome? That wasn't very hard now, was it PalmSource? Why reinvent the wheel, Cobalt-style? (Unless you're trying to rationalize paying millions for a white elephant (Be)?)

Open source with easy SDK access? Almost sounds like they're trying to be developer-friendly so they can get some real apps for this thing. What a concept! Mark Bercow is already trying to do damage control and mend fences with developers at Palm, but the arrogance Palm showed over the past two years might not be easily forgiven.

Inexpensive hardware? W T F! You mean consumers don't like getting gouged for cheap hardware? Wow. Quick, someone call Palm and let them know about this amazing new strategy.

BUUUUUUUUUUT...

- No apps. PalmOS kicks EVERYONE else's a$$ here.
- Limited memory. (Easily corrected.)
- Remember N-Gage? Nokia has a history of colossal mistakes when they try to go beyond their traditional market. And they'll probably cut their losses quicker this time if this thing flops.
- Sony PSP can + will be upgraded/hacked to do a lot of what this thing can do around the house. Also, commodity pricing on laptops means you'll soon be able to get a serviceable laptop for $450. Why should consumers bother with a brand new OS?
- What's the UI really like? PalmOS rules UI comparisons for a reason, and if the Nokia UI sucks, all the best hardware in the world is meaningless. Linux + crap UI = toy for geeks only.
- And again, no apps.

I'll bet a TH55/E will still TROUNCE this thing, despite the pretty specs. But Palm must be crapping their pants these days. Besides the Treo franchaise, Palm's got bupkis.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Oops. PalmOne beat to their next LifeDrive rev already.

dona83 @ 5/30/2005 10:31:03 PM #

Plus I don't see any mention of any PIM operations on this thing. Without PIM functions, it's a no buy for me... I'll get a Tungsten T5 thanks.

RE: Oops. PalmOne beat to their next LifeDrive rev already.

mikecane @ 6/3/2005 8:35:05 PM #

>>>Mark Bercow is already trying to do damage control and mend fences with developers at Palm

Yeah, right. I'll believe this guy even has a *dim* idea of how to do this job when I see DECUMA ALPHABETIC IN THAT SOFT GRAFFITI AREA -- just as it can be with PPC. Until then, the guy is nothing but a big moo.

A few questions I haven't seen addressed yet

hkklife @ 5/31/2005 2:12:14 PM #

I've been out of town without 'net access for a while so my apologies if this was covered in the past week or two.

A. Does anyone out there (non-cheerleader types, please) have enough knowledge of the LD's FrankenGarnet architecture to know if the majority of its hardware-related issues are unfixable or might a software/OS update down the road remedy SOME of the woes? This is, of course, assuming P1 can be bothered to try and address any of them...

B. Also, any idea if an NVFS update is in the works for the T5?

C. Any idea if P1 has something up their sleeve for a midsummer update or will we not see any new hardware until October, as per their glacial standard release schedule? I would immediately buy something with LD specs in a T5 formfactor (plastic and all) as long as the battery life was at least as good as my T3 (given normal usage patterns-I'd only use wi-fi sparingly and on occasion).

D. Has anyone anywhere had the balls to try and replace the LD's MicroDrive with a carefully partitioned and formatted CF card for improvements in speed/battery life/heat?

My T3 is fading fast and I need to determine whether or not to snag a lightly used T3 now and "sit on it" OR if I can coast for a few more months.

The BatDrive?

mikecane @ 6/3/2005 1:49:20 PM #

Palm again misses out on a licensing/promo opportunity...

http://tinyurl.com/alz7x

I await Pat's PShop version...

RE: The BatDrive?

Foo Fighter @ 6/3/2005 3:02:02 PM #

Ah yes, nothing says "I'm a foutry year old virgin" like a comic book hero computer. SpiderMan monitor and Green Hornet mouse not included.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: The BatDrive?

Gekko @ 6/3/2005 6:07:31 PM #

I bet you kirvin is getting one of those.

RE: The BatDrive?

mikecane @ 6/3/2005 8:32:09 PM #

Ah, yes, now let's see, what do handles such as "Gekko" and "Foo Fighter" say about those people...

RE: The BatDrive?

Foo Fighter @ 6/4/2005 9:52:32 AM #

Speaking of dumb ideas, where is that nutball that met with Jeff Hawkins back in the Handspring days, trying to sell him a stupid Batman ad campaign...."If Batman were real, he'd use a Treo"? I'll bet Hawkins laughed the twit right out the door. Don't call us, we'll call you.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: The BatDrive?

Gekko @ 6/4/2005 10:45:20 AM #

>Ah, yes, now let's see, what do handles such as "Gekko" and "Foo Fighter" say about those people...

"Greedy Capitalist Republican"? "Alternative Rock Fan"?

RE: The BatDrive?

Gekko @ 6/4/2005 10:47:37 AM #

>where is that nutball

http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/member.php?u=19289

RE: The BatDrive?

mikecane @ 6/4/2005 12:53:11 PM #

Ah, the squeal of critics who offer nothing better!

Let me see:

Gekko's campaign: If Gordon Gekko of "Wall Street" was real, he'd *steal* a Treo. -or- If Gordon Gekko of "Wall Street" had a Treo, he would have never been caught!

Foo's campaign: Treo. UFOs not included.

ROTFLMAO!

Best build quality of a PDA I've seen

Cheetah @ 6/15/2005 12:31:56 AM #

For now, I don't need the big storage of the Lifedrive, but there were two things that really struck me when I tried out the Lifedrive at a store.

1. that is the best screen I've seen in a PDA

2. it's the best build quality I've seen in a PDA, and compared to most of the PPC's out there, there is no contest. As I've looked at some of the PPCs I've been surprised by how poor some of them are. Also as Palm has tried to trim the price, I've felt quality has dropped in the Palm camp as well. However the Lifedrive was beautiful with solid feel buttons and a very smooth 4 way button.

Perhaps the best designed PDA overall, and I'd buy one in a second if the size was smaller.

RE: Best build quality of a PDA I've seen

Gekko @ 6/15/2005 1:05:11 AM #

beauty is only skin deep. would you marry a "10" if she was a psychopath?

You're TOO funny

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/15/2005 1:11:24 AM #

For now, I don't need the big storage of the Lifedrive, but there were two things that really struck me when I tried out the Lifedrive at a store.
1. that is the best screen I've seen in a PDA
2. it's the best build quality I've seen in a PDA, and compared to most of the PPC's out there, there is no contest. As I've looked at some of the PPCs I've been surprised by how poor some of them are. Also as Palm has tried to trim the price, I've felt quality has dropped in the Palm camp as well. However the Lifedrive was beautiful with solid feel buttons and a very smooth 4 way button.

Perhaps the best designed PDA overall, and I'd buy one in a second if the size was smaller.

Which is it?

a) You work for Palm
b) You're being sarcastic
c) You haven't seen many (any?) other PDAs
d) All of the above

The build quality of the LD is nothing special and there are a LOT of PDAs with nicer screens than the LD. Maybe you've been beaten into submission by Palm's 3 year string of crap, so now anything looks good by comparison. The LD has a cheap-feeling case, odd buttons and a stratospheric price. Hardly "the best designed PDA overall".

Anyone smell burning Astroturf?

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Best build quality of a PDA I've seen

hkklife @ 6/15/2005 2:41:51 PM #

Voice/Gekko/et al;

It has the nicest screen I've ever seen on a device released by Palm/P1. Nothing more than that.

The build quality IS excellent. It feels solid as can be with zero creaks/wobbles that usually plague modern PDAs. The tactile response of the buttons, while not a PSP by any means, is still very good. The d-pad/navigator is the best I've used (other than the Treos) on a PDA in its FEEL. I still don't like P1's new Treo-style one handed navigation vs. the older OS5 style (where you'd hold down the center button to return to the launcher). The style of the hard buttons isn't ideal (I'd prefer them in a cluster ala Zodiac or just in a straight line like the T|T) but they will suffice. They are still leagues better than the T3's buttons!

Unfortunately, the unit is ruined by too many software & OS glitches to list here. No laundry list of nice specs or bundled software can make up or a PDA that ends up wasting multiple minutes each day crashing and rebooting ad indinitum.

RE: Best build quality of a PDA I've seen

Gekko @ 6/15/2005 3:02:52 PM #

hkkk - I know this already.

RE: Best build quality of a PDA I've seen

tankute @ 4/18/2006 12:02:22 PM #

Wıth a screen this size and the disadvantages of a harddrive (size, heft, fragility, power consumption), this thing was meant as a media device. Yet for the price 4GB is woefully small. If it was 40 (or even 20) it would have been very interesting. As it stands the thing is pointless, or maybe its only point is as an object lesson. 2GB SDcards are getting cheaper by the minute.

IIIx -> T|T -> Treo650

We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

mikecane @ 6/15/2005 4:01:50 PM #

Want to know WHY latter devices from palmOne are buggy pieces of crap and why we keep seeing FEWER updates of programs carried over to new increments of Garnet?

You MUST read the following --

PalmOne: Help Us Help You --
http://www.solomedia.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2050#2050

And after that, LISTEN to this podcast where the gloves are removed --

Kirvin Gone Wild: Rips into FRANKENGARNET!! --
http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=1089

After this, the title of my "We, the Suckers" piece becomes even more true!

The Conversion of Saint Kirvin

Gekko @ 6/15/2005 4:06:46 PM #

So now the same guy who stubbornly and continuosly blamed sloppy developer programming and customer user error for the "few and rare" bugs/crashes of the T5 and LD has suddenly had an epiphany? And he FINALLY acknowledges and accepts as his own through revisionism what the so-called "WINGNUTS" have been preaching for the last year - that OS 5.4+ is really a cobbled-together buggy/unstable "FrankenGarnet"?

Congratulations, Kirvin. You're ONE YEAR LATE.

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

mikecane @ 6/15/2005 4:33:15 PM #

Well, Gekko, at least he saw the light and repented. When will *you* repent, you miserable sinner?

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

Surur @ 6/15/2005 4:51:05 PM #

I take full credit for the transformation!!

(or at least I'm the only poster from here who challenged him on his podcast home-ground at 1src.com)

Surur

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

mikecane @ 6/15/2005 5:12:01 PM #

I see your delusions have not desisted...

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

Strider_mt2k @ 6/15/2005 5:26:33 PM #

Um Surur there have been a couple of people working on him on this one, but props for hanging out and discussing it just the same!

The question is, will we all pull together and let Palm know how we feel about this?
http://www.1src.com/headlines/show/001089.html
I know it was posted, but it bears posting again.
http://www.solomedia.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2050#2050

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

Gekko @ 6/15/2005 5:37:21 PM #

"It's too late for Palm." - Michael Dell

"Death can come swiftly to a market leader. By the time you have lost the positive-feedback cycle it's often too late to change what you've been doing, and all of the elements of a negative spiral come into play." - Bill Gates, "The Road Ahead", Chapter 3

"In this business, by the time you realize you're in trouble, it's too late to save yourself. Unless you're running scared all the time, you're gone." - Bill Gates

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

mikecane @ 6/15/2005 6:43:07 PM #

Starting epidemics requires concentrating resources on a few key areas. Connectors, Mavens, and Salesmen are responsible for starting word-of-mouth epidemics, which means. . .your resources ought to be solely concentrated on those three groups. No one else matters. -- Malcolm Gladwell [DoCoMo - Japan's Wireless Tsunami: How One Mobile Telecom Created a New Market and Became a Global Force by John Beck & Mitchell Wade; pg. 34]

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

Surur @ 6/15/2005 7:20:55 PM #

Just to play Devil's advocate (you know I love it!) just because Kevin agree with us on some things, doesn't mean we are necessarily right. P1 presumably have some method to their madness.

Surur

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

mikecane @ 6/15/2005 8:19:24 PM #

>>>P1 presumably have some method to their madness.

Let me help you out there:

P1 presumably have some METH MADNESS.

One of your best lines yet, Cane:

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/15/2005 8:48:56 PM #

P1 presumably have some METH MADNESS.

So you do serve a useful function afterall...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

That dumba$$ basically copied everything we said at PIC

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/15/2005 8:55:57 PM #

Please warn us when you're linking to more of Kirvin's Krap.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

jkirvin @ 6/15/2005 10:26:54 PM #

The difference, Voice, is that I have info from real developers to back it up. It's called reporting, and I prefer it to unsubstantiated ranting. (although that also has its joys)

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/15/2005 11:05:36 PM #

The difference, Voice, is that I have info from real developers to back it up. It's called reporting, and I prefer it to unsubstantiated ranting. (although that also has its joys)

Kirvin, you flatter yourself. You are NOT a "reporter". You're a (very) amateur writer who blogs about Palms. You aren't even knowledgeable about PalmOS, Palm hardware or Palm's business side, even though you pretend to be a Palm guru. Palm Svengali would be more accurate.

Everyone knows how CESD feels right now about Palm - it's been difficult for him to hide his contempt for a company that shows such little regard for developers. You linking to a statement by CESD isn't exactly "reporting", Bubba.

http://palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7210#100342 Look: I'm a "reporter" too!

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7394#101610

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7866#108764

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

OK Kirvin, this is your last shot

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/16/2005 1:32:19 AM #

Since people like you have apparently convinced Ryan to start censoring posts at Palminfocenter, I'll no longer be posting here in the future. Before I'm done I'd like to hear you try to rebut ANY (of the MANY) threads in which I've DESTROYED you in our "debates". Foo Fighter has also exposed you as a fraud, but that's besides the point. This offer expires in 24 hours - after which time hopefully others will step up to counteract the BS you've spread everywhere.

I hope you get hired by PalmSource.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

AdamaDBrown @ 6/16/2005 2:06:55 AM #

Say, Jeff, I thought you swore weren't coming back here until all the mean people were banned?

In any event, most of have already heard this from various developers. I can't count the number of times that I've heard developers talk about what a pain building for 5.4 is compared to a more modern OS like Windows or Symbian. Or the degree to which 5.4 has essentially been piled, one bit on top of the next, because the hardware designers don't have access to an OS that natively includes such useful features as persistent storage, a file system, multithreading/multitasking...

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

Surur @ 6/16/2005 2:58:17 AM #

From your quote, just to confirm, the Datebook issues ARE a NVFS issue (with copying/Mirroring RAM to FlashROM)?

Surur

Astroturfing on your Palm...

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/16/2005 3:30:51 AM #

Say, Jeff, I thought you swore weren't coming back here until all the mean people were banned?

As usual, the guy is a fraud. He ran away - tail between his legs - back to his little blog site after getting exposed as a clueless fraud here a few weeks ago.

http://palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7748#105721

He then ripped into Palminfocenter on his blog site:

Sunday, April 10, 2005
PalmInfocenter and Astroturfing
PalmInfocenter Detailed Comment View (7748)

It's sad when good web sites go bad...

However, I do feel compelled to state, for the record, my relationship with PalmOne and with PalmSource. I doubt the bitter will believe me, but for those you that still have open minds...

That's it. I'm not being paid to shill for either company. In fact, if anything, losing out on the job at PalmSource could have made me bitter and antagonistic towards them.

http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/2005/04/palminfocenter-and-astroturfing.php

Of course he shamelessly popped up here a few weeks later to try and do damage control for Palm's latest sales dud, the DeathDrive:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7840#107744

Funny how all of us that really know Palms seem to think Kirvin doesn't know what he's talking (and "Writing on [his] Palm) about.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

mikecane @ 6/16/2005 8:28:56 AM #

VoR minced:

>>>Since people like you have apparently convinced Ryan to start censoring posts at Palminfocenter, I'll no longer be posting here in the future.

Of course, he broke his "word" not five minutes later.

Stop giving us false hope! You're acting like the two Palms!

The Shame of palmOne/Palm

mikecane @ 6/16/2005 1:17:44 PM #

palmOne had Nokia Dreams -- WITHOUT the Nokia Vision.

Note to Ed "Delight the Customer" Colligan -- THIS is how a REAL company operates:

Tiny open source window manager catches a giant's eye
http://mobile.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/06/08/1948202&from=rss

You're *beyond* Damage Control at this point, Ed.

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

jkirvin @ 6/16/2005 1:28:14 PM #

Adama: I think I've had the desired effect re changing the tone around here. After all, Voice is leaving and Gekko is increasingly strident. He'll give up eventually.

Voice: I couldn't begin to care what you think. If you had the proof I've documented, why didn't you use it? All anyone hears from you are allegations, but nothing to back them up. Buh-bye.

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

mikecane @ 6/16/2005 1:37:19 PM #

VoR was too busy with his vanity posting. Instead of that idiotic CLIE article, he blew his chance to do a *real* one.

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

twrock @ 6/16/2005 8:51:51 PM #

Since people like you have apparently convinced Ryan to start censoring posts at Palminfocenter, I'll no longer be posting here in the future. Before I'm done ... This offer expires in 24 hours

Mike, I think he implied he was planning on sticking around for another 24 hours to have a final go at jkirvin if he was up to it. But with the time zone differences, I can't figure out when that 24 expires. Should be soon if it hasn't happened already.

TVOR, I don't think Ryan "started" censoring posts just recently. He has done it before, and hopefully he'll keep doing it when necessary. I'm not an advocate for heavy-handed censoring, but you have gone way over the line on any number of occasions. (Need I remind you of the posts with no other content than to make comments about someone's wife and her alleged "private practices"? Might those not have been "Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, Inane or Offensive"?) So if leave you must....

And Jeff, try not to take too much credit for the "changes". You have no idea how much of it was you and how much of it was other people or influences. And the jury's still out on whether or not your particular influence in the process was for the better. If this site turns into some mush-brained fanboy forum because people with sharp minds and wit don't want to be here, I for one will be very disappointed. Time will tell....

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/16/2005 9:27:24 PM #

TVOR, I don't think Ryan "started" censoring posts just recently. He has done it before, and hopefully he'll keep doing it when necessary. I'm not an advocate for heavy-handed censoring, but you have gone way over the line on any number of occasions. (Need I remind you of the posts with no other content than to make comments about someone's wife and her alleged "private practices"? Might those not have been "Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, Inane or Offensive"?) So if leave you must....

If you're referring to my posts about BubbaSteve's "wifey",
I stand by them. She's a wild little Danish girl quite fluent in French, if you know what I mean. God it's great living in Silicon Valley! The money! The decadence! The perversion!

As usual, when challenged on any point, Kirvin sucker punches the individual (conveniently pretending not to see the arguments put forth) and then runs back to hide under his mama's bed, quivering. Pathetic. The guy has yet to stand up to anyone in ANY online debate I've ever seen him in. Absolute chicken sh*t.

Regarding the censorship issue: it's Ryan's site and I'll respect his right to run it any way he chooses. No hard feelings. Unfortunately, there are now no more Palm sites that aren't afraid to tell it like it is. (I was stunned by Ryan's recent review of the pa1mOne DeathDrive and seriously wonder if Palm had threatened to pull its advertising $$$ if Ryan didn't fall in line with the other pom-pomed, Rah-Rah cheerleading Palm sites. Oh well. We've now lost HandEra, Sony, and PalmStation. Maybe the writing was on the wall...

In the future, I'll be making guest appearances on the new PDA blog site, "Random Ravings".

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

Admin @ 6/16/2005 9:38:14 PM #

It's not censorship, it's moderation. I am all for open discussions, however you (voice) cross the line far too often. Stay on topic, don't insult, flame or threaten other people and remain civil and there is no issue.

RE: We, the Suckers -- a sorta sequel

twrock @ 6/16/2005 9:49:40 PM #

Censorship: "the suppression or attempted suppression of something regarded as objectionable" (Encarta)

Call it "censorship" or "moderation", makes no difference to me. But I do appreciate censorship done in moderation.

Random Ravings web site

twrock @ 6/18/2005 2:06:40 PM #

So long Voice. I'll try to drop in on you from time to time over at Random Ravings. (So are you Dave or Katie?)

Here's the link for anyone else who is looking for it:
http://hippydave.brendoman.com/

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

The lifedrive is TOO Cheap!

fermi337 @ 6/16/2005 2:15:44 PM #

Think about it. If you compare it to a t5, for one just one hundred extra dollars you get, a 4gb hard drive, wi-fi, a voice recorder, pocket tunes, metal casing and much more. I think the lifedrive should have been priced at least 600 USD.

RE: The lifedrive is TOO Cheap!

Gekko @ 6/16/2005 2:22:43 PM #

Nobody is buying and keeping now at $400. What planet are the fools on that would pay $600?

Now go back outside and play in the street.

RE: The lifedrive is TOO Cheap!

fermi337 @ 6/16/2005 3:10:30 PM #

600 dollars? I'm sorry, but the list price is 500 dollars and some retailers sell it for as low as 421 dollars.

RE: The lifedrive is TOO Cheap!

twrock @ 6/16/2005 9:22:10 PM #

If you are comparing the prices of the T5 and LD, the proper conclusion is that the T5 was WAY overpriced to start with.

RE: The lifedrive is TOO Cheap!

fermi337 @ 6/17/2005 3:23:45 PM #

Even if the t5 was priced at 300 USD, the lifedrive is still cheap at 500 USD.

RE: The lifedrive is TOO Cheap!

nat187 @ 6/30/2005 7:56:32 AM #

Why should the price of a gadget such as the lifedrive, or any other matter?
We should be used to higher prices on release of a new product due to the cost of technological advancment, and if no-one purchased the new devices, the vendors would cease to deliver them.
If a PDA is too expensive, buy a pen and a box of sticky notes.

RE: The lifedrive is TOO Cheap!

hkklife @ 6/30/2005 11:51:04 AM #

Considering the number of SHOWSTOPPING bugs on the LD, even $350 would be too high IMO.

The LD never should have shipped in such a buggy state, ESPECIALLY the frequent with bundled apps & wi-fi connections

P1 should make a list of things to watch out for or have a readme.txt file that lists remaining "issues".

A patch for the LD should have been available within the first month of release. It's now the last day of June and the LD has been available at retail for 6 weeks now and nothing more than a meagre wi-fi access point patch? 3rd party developers have already addressed the lack of simultaneous button inputs and tried to address the lag. Where's P1's response? I just saw that the LD is the 6th best selling handheld at retail---shocking considering how late it was released, how hideously bad some users' (ie mine) LD experiences have been, how few chains are carrying it and its staggering sticker price.

RE: The lifedrive is TOO Cheap!

nat187 @ 7/11/2005 2:08:19 AM #

well after 18 days of owning and using the lifedrive drive it has died a horrible death.
Pulled it out of my pocket to use the calculator at a restaurant to add up the cost of the meals, it was really hot and really dead.
Tried to reset, it hung on the palm one screen.
tried to hard reset, same again.
let it cool down in the open air for a while, same thing.
All it did was make a faint ticking sound, presumably the hard drive trying to read.
I had backed up the day before, so i only lost a little IMPORTANT info( i had got used to backing it up twice a day because it reset itself so often).

I have given the dead Lifedrive back to the store from which it came, i'm now waiting for a hx4700 to arrive overnight.
Hopefully my handheld experience will be better and less laggy with some real RAM onboard.
Maybe i will be able to check my email at a wireless hotspot without a reset happening......and so on.

And i always said i wouldn't buy anything HP again, stick with the Palm i thought.

RE: The LifeDrive is TOO Cheap!

sr4 @ 7/11/2005 2:51:20 AM #

Please go here http://www.ipaqhq.com/ , ask some questions about problems, pitfalls and third party software, to have the best chance of a smooth transition.

Surur

any heat on this unit

joelleward @ 7/30/2005 6:40:49 AM #

heat, where there is speed and bigger processor there is always the heat question.is there any problem with heat?

Nursing

RE: any heat on this unit

sr4 @ 7/30/2005 6:45:43 AM #

There is heat, and sometimes a lot of it, like when you load a lot of media and use the hard drive a lot. I do not know if there is a problem per se with the heat however.

Surur

what a piece of junk ....

eloyex @ 12/6/2005 11:56:11 AM #

i bought a new lifedrive LD 3 months ago ..
nice at the begining ... like a new marriage !!
but few weeks later, started to crash without logical reasons ..
playing MP3, surfing the web, looking for a contact ...what an
unstable animal .. !!!!!!! i have friends with treos and tunsgtens and worked really fine and predictable ..

mine also EATS the battery up at speed of light ..
mine, overnight , without any reason, depletes the battery totally . I turned off wifi, blue-t, infrared, and all the possible choices, but nothing .. still eats battery overnight .. nobody understand why ...

Palm support guys, very nice people by the way, tried to help me, and recommended to upgrade the ROM version... i did it with great expectation , carefully following the procedures, as i need this machine fully operational.

Now, i have a self-reset machine .. !!!!
never recovered from the update. Now the machine self resets over and over and over ... no way to get it back to work ..

so, i have to return the unit to bestbuy.

What a crappy thing. This is what happens when marketing pushes engineering too far, to get ready a product without the necessary debugging and testing ...

If you think i am not skilled enough , i have 22 years as electronic engineer and director of a telecomm company for a long time. Used to deal with setups/configurations/OS and so for a long time ...

Why the release of a machine not tested enough ..
i am not alone on this though ...
well .. good luck with your LD ...
i am 200% frustated with the LD.

eloy fernandez
LanPro Miami

RE: what a piece of junk ....

meeksomebody @ 3/18/2006 11:17:00 PM #

Ouch. Mine LifeDrive never had a problem until its screen cracked. I don't wanna have a defective unit when exchanged...

Lifedrive

cliff_l @ 3/30/2006 10:23:07 AM #

bought a lifedrive but like someone else posted (about a new marriage) the love of it was short lived. Overall the thing is just too big and bulky for the modest gain of 4 gig of stotage space - concider Apple's IPOD at 30 or 60 gig and how small it is. I fully expected Palm to have come out with a Lifedrive II with a bigger harddisk by now, not just dropping the price by $100 Here's hope that they will redesign the unit to be more closer to a TX, in style and size & bring back the voice memo, vibrate feature.

Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

SeldomVisitor @ 9/14/2006 11:56:58 AM #

Windows Mobile, large screen, 30GB disk, etc etc etc.

http://www.comingzune.com

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Gekko @ 9/14/2006 1:24:06 PM #

Zune will feature a 30GB HDD, 802.11b/g wireless connectivity, an FM tuner, USB 2.0 interface and a massive 3" LCD screen. Microsoft confirmed all of those specifications today and disclosed a few more for good measure.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4168

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Gekko @ 9/14/2006 1:24:45 PM #

"When you go to war, you go to win." - Colin Powell

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

SeldomVisitor @ 9/14/2006 2:14:14 PM #

What is a little surprising to me is that all the Me-Too Media, the blogs, everywhere I've read (including some MSFT words) are suggesting this is an iPod competitor alone.

I placed the original of this thread under THIS article on purpose.

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Foo Fighter @ 9/14/2006 2:54:09 PM #

zzzz....ZZZZZZZZZ....zzzz...ZZZZZZZZZ

Pfft! A "me too" attempt by Microsoft to take on Apple's dominant position. Apple has already established a cult icon status with both the iPod and iTunes music store. As well as building an entire industry of third part support.

Zune begins from the basement level with a long staircase to climb. And what does MS have but an obvious iPod clone..and an uninspiring one at that? This player really doesn't offer anything not already covered by other Plays For Sure devices floating around from Creative and others.

Worst of all Zune seems, like so many Microsoft-designed products before it, a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. What exactly is Zune's angle? Is it a life raft designed to "rescue" me from the evil clutches of Apple, whose product and online music store happens to be the best solution on the market?

Good luck, boys. You're going to need it.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

SeldomVisitor @ 9/14/2006 3:11:02 PM #

On THIS website Zune is "important" vis-a-vis PALM's "product" they say they're gonna hit Europe (er...somewhere...I don't think they explicitily said "Europe") with, IMHO.

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

SeldomVisitor @ 9/14/2006 3:14:04 PM #

Just reread the purported words - they did explicitly say "Europe"...

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Gekko @ 9/14/2006 3:23:18 PM #

>Pfft! A "me too" attempt by Microsoft to take on Apple's dominant position. Apple has already established a cult icon status with both the iPod and iTunes music store. As well as building an entire industry of third part support.

Sounds just like the Palm OS in the late 90's, silly.

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Gekko @ 9/14/2006 3:30:03 PM #

Console unit sales and market share numbers for 2005

Sony PlayStation 2 5.51 million 55 percent

Microsoft Xbox 2.40 million 24 percent

Nintendo GameCube 1.56 million 15 percent

Microsoft Xbox 360 607,343 6 percent

Source: Mercury News Research

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

cervezas @ 9/14/2006 3:40:23 PM #

For once Gekko is actually right about something. The day when the iPod had "cult icon status" or dominated its market has come and gone: http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2006/07/demise_of_a_dar.html

It'll take an iPhone for Apple to get its music player mojo back. And I'm not so sure that Jobs is willing to hand over the kind of control to the "four orifices" (a.k.a. carriers) that would be required to get an iPhone to market. They'll want his balls for the privilege of using their networks: that is, it won't be the iTunes store that will be selling you your music on an iPhone (should such a thing ever materialize).

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Gekko @ 9/14/2006 4:58:51 PM #

RE: iPhone or equivalent. How cool would it be to download entire songs to your mp3 phone right over the air, mobile, on demand, and in a snap?

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Foo Fighter @ 9/14/2006 5:58:25 PM #

Meh! The DAP market is soon to become commoditized, so there won't be much revenue opportunity to be had for Apple or Microsoft in the long term. Why Redmond chose NOW as the opportunity to get into this space I do not know. Especially since Zune will place Microsoft on a collision course with its Plays For Sure partners. I'm sure the folks at Creative will absolutely love Zune.

You could argue that Microsoft sees real revenue opportunity in content delivery and distribution, but Apple is the single leading distributor of legal music downloads...and even they aren't earning much profit (so far) selling music; the bulk goes to record labels.

So where is Microsoft really heading with Zune?

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Foo Fighter @ 9/14/2006 6:08:43 PM #

>> "And I'm not so sure that Jobs is willing to hand over the kind of control to the "four orifices" (a.k.a. carriers) that would be required to get an iPhone to market. They'll want his balls for the privilege of using their networks: that is, it won't be the iTunes store that will be selling you your music on an iPhone (should such a thing ever materialize)."

And on that note (excuse the pun) we've heard rumblings for the past year or more that Apple may have plans to become an MVNO, which would essentially enable them to bypass the four orifices and independently control it's own network (albeit virtually) and content distribution, ala Virgin Mobile. It's not clear whether any of this will become reality, but analysts continue to swear the iPhone does indeed exist and is coming next year.

One can only hope.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Gekko @ 9/14/2006 6:46:04 PM #

Foo - it's a loss leader for MSFT to help them control the world and your soul.

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

SeldomVisitor @ 9/14/2006 7:19:37 PM #

> ...So where is Microsoft really heading with Zune?

Think well beyond music and videos:

== "...We believe in connection. We're launching a product
== with a very simple idea. We're putting Wi-Fi in everything we
== do..."

The thread was placed under this article on purpose.

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Gekko @ 9/14/2006 7:58:32 PM #

Objective: Inflict maximum pain on the enemy.

What the DeathDrive Should Have Been...

Gekko @ 9/14/2006 9:17:16 PM #

http://tinyurl.com/koa3e

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Foo Fighter @ 9/14/2006 9:40:11 PM #

>> "What the DeathDrive Should Have Been..."

Don't be too hard on Palm. They executed poorly with LD, but their hands were tied in no small part to the Paleolithic Palm operating system (Garnet).

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Gekko @ 9/14/2006 10:01:23 PM #

Nah. They tied their own hands. They could have done a WinMob LD. We all choose our fate in this life. At least they were smarter with the Treo.

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

hkklife @ 9/14/2006 11:50:19 PM #

Foo;

Had Palm simply put 64mb of RealRAM on the LifeDrive and treated the 4gb Microdrive as an "internal" storage volume ala the T5, they'd have been fine.

OR, had Palm had the astounding foresight and vision to ship a T5/TX-sized unit with 1 or 2gb of internal flash OR just given the LD a standard CF slot everything would've been fine.

But, even with FrankenGarnet's usual limitations, they really gave the LD the death blow by crippling it with too little RAM cache and trying to run the OS off of the hard drive.

A VGA LifeDrive 2 with a huge (30gb+) HD running WinMob would/could still be an interesting device. But Palm would have to bring much more to the table in this day & age for a portable media device.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Re: What the DeathDrive Should Have Been...

SeldomVisitor @ 9/15/2006 6:31:19 AM #

Wow - interesting.

Maybe we're seeing Hawkins' Next Great Thing rolling out slowly!

Or its death, too.

Now THAT'S entertainment!

Zune Product Shots & WiFi In-Action Video!

Gekko @ 9/16/2006 7:54:11 AM #

Zune Product Shots & WiFi In-Action Video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaKp_r0hFz0&eurl

p.s. Why Macs Suck

Gekko @ 9/16/2006 8:01:32 AM #

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSA4tiriHrc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZvt6Plo4jk

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Foo Fighter @ 9/16/2006 9:35:01 AM #

Gekko, you tool. That video is from 2001, and based upon the earliest releases of OSX. It is indeed funny as hell (whomever this guy is, he should have gone into showbiz), but no longer accurate or relevant. Largely everything he says was true at the time...and I can personally vouch for it. Particularly the part about applications that crash disappear right before your very eyes. I had that happen to me countless times in OSX 10.1 and 10.2. That problem actually had less to do with OS issues and more to do with third party software development at the time. You would be working away at your desk, just typing something in say Microsoft Word for example, when suddenly..Poof! Word disappeared! And you would be like...where the hell did it go? Usually the disappearance would be followed by a error message that says "Application unexpectedly quit". Ah..the good old days.

But as I said; the video, while truly funny, is no longer relevant. It would be like me claiming that PCs suck because they are beige and Windows Me crashes constantly. Funny though when you think back, Windows Me was Microsoft's "state of the art" consumer client OS at the time Apple unveiled OSX, which changed the industry. XP didn't arrive until October 2001. OSX 10.0 shipped in March of that year.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Gekko @ 9/16/2006 10:14:35 AM #

I wouldn't know. I'm in the real business world and we don't use crApples. I do despise that turtlenecked, arrogant, scumbag liberal Steve Jobs and all the liberal ponytailed, granola-eating, pot-smoking, tie-dyed shirt and sandal-wearing, war-protesting, artist-wannabe sheep in his cult.

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

SeldomVisitor @ 9/16/2006 1:46:58 PM #

> ...I do despise that turtlenecked, arrogant, scumbag liberal
> Steve Jobs and all the liberal ponytailed, granola-eating,
> pot-smoking, tie-dyed shirt and sandal-wearing, war-protesting,
> artist-wannabe sheep in his cult.

-- http://fun.hit.bg/i/1067BillGates.jpg

-- http://images.businessweek.com/mz/05/02/0502best/images/linus_torvalds.jpg

-- http://www.computerhistory.org/events/images/phpgISRO2

-- http://pencomputing.com/palm/Pen47/nageldubinsky.jpg

etc etc etc

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Gekko @ 9/16/2006 2:18:54 PM #

I'm not sure what your point is and I can only say that 1978 is not 2006.

RE: Coming in 10 minutes - the Zune

Gekko @ 9/16/2006 2:22:11 PM #

p.s. is Donna D. a rug muncher?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Cumming in 10 minutes - the Sappho

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/20/2006 12:12:32 PM #

p.s. is Donna D. a rug muncher?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geeko, what does Donna Dubinsky's dietary preference have to do with anything? Why would you insinuate that she's a...

VEGETARIAN?

LIFEDRIVE CRASHES BAD

dr1joe @ 11/20/2006 4:48:46 AM #

My LifeDrive just crashed after having it for just 2 months. No bumps or drops. It was working as usual until I put it on the cradle and it went belly up. Piece of crap.

Why was this prominently featured at...

SeldomVisitor @ 2/15/2007 12:19:08 PM #

...the top of the Home page as the "Featured Article" just now?

Giggle.

it does change

LifeDrive owner @ 1/26/2009 6:33:16 AM #

i've had a LifeDrive for about 5 years, so ive noticed that when fully charged (95-100%) it changes from orange to green. Also programs like p-tunes have the option to turn off the screen and flash the LED green to indicate that it is playing. Finally volume overboost makes it even louder with minimal or no distortion!

RE: it does change

mikecane @ 1/26/2009 7:24:52 AM #

I've had a damned LifeDrive for two years and green isn't ALWAYS fully charged.

< Home | Return to Article | Comment Board

Account

News Higlights

Latest Comments

I got one -Tuckermaclain
RE: Don't we have this already? -Tuckermaclain
RE: Palm brand will return in 2018, with devices built by TCL -richf
RE: Palm brand will return in 2018, with devices built by TCL -dmitrygr
Palm phone on HDblog -palmato
Palm PVG100 -hgoldner
RE: Like Deja Vu -PacManFoo
Like Deja Vu -T_W