Comments on: New Yahoo Mail Push Email Client
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RE: Suddenly seems to be push email EVERYWHERE!
Nobody in the world can out DEVELOP MSFT but anyone can out INNOVATE MSFT.
Innovation is what has been RIMM success. They hit the jackpot when they kept their system running on 911 for the Congressmen because the server was in Canada. Innovation was their game when they developed mass appeal for push email and quadrupled their subsciber base in two years.
This is Mike Cane's area at PSRC and I am very disappointed. He is the chief competitive officer of the Palm OS. And these are the very issues he is suppose to be addressing and leading. And what do you know another leadership failure at Palm.
And Mike with come back with some little quip trying to make himself look good while his job is make the Palm look good which indirectly makes himself look good.
So without be nasty, to Mr. Mike, why is Palm again a YEAR last and a dollar short in this push email business? And how is PSRC profiting from this?
RE: Suddenly seems to be push email EVERYWHERE!
Actually, I think you mean Mike Mace. Sometimes I wonder if the two Mikes are two sides of a split personality. ("Good Mike" and "Bad Mike".)
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
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The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
Cobalt lacks these features compared to Mobile 5.0
Quote from link on the discussion formums-- Cobalt phone....PalmSource says Cobalt is designed to make it easier to create new classes of mobile devices with advanced telephony and multimedia. That's what wireless carriers, who are looking for devices that help them sell wireless data services, are looking for.
In the above quote I see the reference to advanced telephony features. So where is Skype for Palm's VOIP, where is the built in remote eraser in the OS, were is the push email to compete with RIMM? Oh, three hugh features PSRC missed in Cobalt 6.0 and 6.1 as they were driving licenses away.
Oh and not to forget the above quotes reference to multimedia look at the new Brighthand link concerning MSFT and TIVO:
http://www.brighthand.com/article/TiVoToGo_Service_Now_Available
Another feature Cobalt lacks and has had the time to impliment in its vintage aging delay excuses.
RE: Suddenly seems to be push email EVERYWHERE!
Palm just does not understand the game. Palms only hope of survival, that is PSRC and PLMO, rests in innovation not development.
Nobody in the world can out DEVELOP MSFT but anyone can out INNOVATE MSFT."
What a perfect comment. How true. Microsoft has never, ever sold an original product. Even MS-DOS is just a clone of CPM. I could recite all the rest, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Windows itself copied from Apple.
Microsoft once offered Bob a new user helper. It bombed completely. Microsoft simply has no imagination or willingness to take real risks. It's sad, but true. The trouble for most information tech companies is that even if they do innovate, like Palm once did, they are merely copied and (again how well Benamy puts it) "out developed" by MSFT as MSFT leverages their OS position. There is no way for PalmOne or PalmSource to outdevelop MSFT. They appear unwilling to out-innovate anyone these days. So there you have it. Another corporate corpse claimed the MSFT war machine.
(BTW, I don't know which Mike you refer to at PalmSource. The correct name escapes me, but it isn't Mike Cane.)
Mike Mace, not Mike Cane
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
RE: Cobalt lacks these features compared to Mobile 5.0
Cobalt has no built in PUSH EMAIL... TIVO... Skype
Sure, these aren't features that are baked into the operating system. But that's because it is an operating system, not a suite of applications.
What Cobalt does provide are built-in mechanisms for making something like push email or video a good experience on a mobile device. The ability for a mail client running as a service in the background to pop up a window (optionally a translucent one) that shows you your incoming push email while you are watching TIVO for example. Ways to use multiple wireless connections gracefully so you can, say, stream a video from your desktop over WiFi while text messaging your girlfriend's phone over GPRS. That kind of thing.
Again, these are tools, infrastructure, that Cobalt provides to developers when they write appliations. But Cobalt doesn't develop the applications for the developer.
By the way, the reason we don't see a Skype client for Palm OS (a disappointment to me as well) is that the company that makes Skype hasn't written one and won't open its protocol or communications API to developers who would like to write one. Go complain to them, not PalmSource.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
That Other Mike
A-bloody-men for my part! I'd be *ashamed* to look at the rubble around my feet and have to say, "I did this!"
THAT guy, BTW, is agreeing to be interviewed on the following forum:
http://www.allaboutpalm.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44
Hey, Mace! No worries. I'm not going to register there. Waste of time.
RE: Suddenly seems to be push email EVERYWHERE!
Some good point in yr post - but I 'dont think we could call Yahoo and Sprint 'a bunch of unknown startups'.
RE: Suddenly seems to be push email EVERYWHERE!
They'll prefer the one that comes from their wireless service provider which they can just add to their bill. The solution that is "turnkey" is not necessarily going to be "all-Microsoft."
Take a look at what Visto is doing, for example: http://www.visto.com/news/releases/05_04_21_vodafone.html
Visto is not a household name, but with that Vodaphone deal alone they surpassed RIM's push email user base. Their product runs on Symbian, J2ME, Windows Mobile, and Palm.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
RE: Suddenly seems to be push email EVERYWHERE!
>>Will companies prefer a turnkey all-Microsoft push system or one cobbled together by a bunch of unknown startups? Guess.
Some good point in yr post - but I 'dont think we could call Yahoo and Sprint 'a bunch of unknown startups'.
I was referring to the companies like Good Technology that have been offering push systems for PalmOS for the past year.
cervezas @ 6/9/2005 7:14:59 PM #
>>>Will companies prefer a turnkey all-Microsoft push system or one cobbled together by a bunch of unknown startups? Guess.
They'll prefer the one that comes from their wireless service provider which they can just add to their bill. The solution that is "turnkey" is not necessarily going to be "all-Microsoft."
Wrong. Everyone bows to Microsoft. If your business runs Outlook on Microsoft Exchange and uses Windows + Office, your IT department will go with yet another Microsoft solution. The FrankenRIM solutions (PalmOS + Seven, Good, etc.) will be felt to be needlessly complicating support headaches. [Whether this is true or not doesn't matter.]
Businesses are CONSERVATIVE (for good reason) and I doubt Palm can break the Windows hegemony. How many people are running Netscape and Word Perfect these days? Try again, Bubba.
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
RE: Suddenly seems to be push email EVERYWHERE!
So how do you explain the fact that Treo, Nokia and Blackberry are all kicking Microsoft's butt in the smartphone market? What you say would make some sense if it weren't for two things: people are already very comfortable with how push email works with Blackberries and (via 3rd party software) Palms--it's Microsoft that's the late-comer; and as I pointed out, the wireless carriers are the ones who have to be sold on the solution, not the users. Users will take whatever push email solution the carrier offers them for the most part. They buy the whole package and the carriers make sure they can get it as a nice, neat, easy to use bundle. That's how the market works now and so far it's not at all clear that Microsoft will win in it. Certainly not the way they have on the desktop.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
RE: Suddenly seems to be push email EVERYWHERE!
Carriers are not completely unaccountable. We are still their customers, and there is competition between carriers (especially in Europe). They also look after their business customers very well, who buy 50 000 phones and services in one go.
The WM push solution is designed to work with or without carrier support. It only requires an extra SP to Exchange 2003, and a new WM device. Push is aimed at businesses, and they can afford to buy these devices off contact. Carriers can however not afford to not serve these customers, and will provide the devices they require. The synchronisation is over port 80 and 443, so unless the phone company want to block the whole Internet they will not be able to stop any business from implementing this solution. They will still however benefit from selling the bandwidth generated from synching e-mails, appointments and contacts etc, all without doing any work on their part besides selling a WM5 phone. Besides having SP2 and a Wm device, the company will not be paying a subscription to anyone, and they will have a flexible solution for much more than just e-mail. Imagine having your personal assistant carry one, and pushing tasks at him or her, or carrying one while your secretary updates your calender and contacts on the desktop, and having it show up instantly on your mobile device.
Whats has happened now is MS has brought out a standard solution, and Blackberry, Treo etc will go the way of Trumpet Winsock (anyone here remember them?)
Surur
HA HA
http://www.brighthand.com/article/In-Depth_Look_at_Windows_Mobile_Push_Email
RE: Suddenly seems to be push email EVERYWHERE!
Its like:
Device to server: Any new e-mail, tasks, or appointments..
Server:
Like imap idle the connection is kept open, and no further data is exchanged. Eventually the connection is dropped , which causes the device to initiate one further request. Very little data is passed (few tens of bytes)
When there is something the server responds Yes to the original poll, which may have been 10 minutes ago. This initiates an active sync.
Its very frugal regarding data usage when there is nothing to send, and because the contact is being initiated by the handheld its needs no cooperation by the cell phone network, or any changes on the Exchange server. Its actually very elegantly done.
The important part is that as soon as something changes the handheld gets notified. Not every 5 minutes when you poll or anything.
Surur
RE: Suddenly seems to be push email EVERYWHERE!
The other major issue is scalability. Push based server middelware solutions like RIM, Good, Visto don't scale much past 500 users per service. If you are a large company with thousands of users, the server and data center support costs add up quickly as you scale into the thousands. Even if the employee pays for the device and wireless service, the company still has to foot the bill for the associated server infrastructure. This combined with software licensing and carrier costs make it difficult for corporations to roll out these types of solutions to large numbers of users.
Not so fast...
Without that, you pay an extra $2.99 a month for what you get with VersaMail for free.
I think stick with getting my spam every 30 minutes through VersaMail for free.
RE: Not so fast...
Dean
__________________
Tungsten T3 - SE T68i
T1, VIIx, IIIxe, Pro
http://www.whizoo.com/bt_setup/ My Bluetooth Setup Page
RE: Not so fast...
And I think their "unlimited" option only applies to text messages to/from other Verizon phones.
What a rip-off...
http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/
BLA... Rather have IMAP
I support http://Tapland.com/
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GNM
sms-triggered
Chatter can do the same, as well as TRUE push with a capable IMAP email provider.
I kind of like Versamail's features over the new Yahoo program b/c with Versamail you can delete selected messages from the server as well, not just on your Treo.
Too Bad It's Yahoo!
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Pilot Pro -> III -> IIIe -> Nino (yeah...oops!) -> IIIc -> VIIx -> m505 -> NR70V -> NZ90 -> NX60 -> T3 -> Zire 72s
RE: Too Bad It's Yahoo!
http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/
RE: Too Bad It's Yahoo!
I beta tested something like this from Yahoo! a while back (web only interface at the time) and the problem was that, by the time I got the SMS alert, I had pulled messages off the server 2 or 3 times, so it was old news.
Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
2) Stop selling crappy, unreliable, poor value, under-featured, Chinese-sourced hardware. Palm had earned a good reputation years ago with the solid Palm III and V series but now a series of lemons like the Dungsten 5 and self-destructing Dungsten E have trashed all that goodwill. And cellphone buyers aren't very forgiving. Sell them a crappy Treo and you may easily have lost a customer for good.
3) Decide what apps most users should have out of the box and INCLUDE THEM IN THE ROM. HandyShopper, BackupMan, DiddleBug, YAUC, TealLock, etc. Don't expect users to waste hours, days, months searching the Internet for the best apps to help them use their PDAs to the fullest.
4) Dump NVFS CrapRAM™. It is unnecessary and PalmOS 5 is choking on it. Make 128 MB of RealRAM™ standard on all devices and include a good backup app in the ROM.
5) Include dual CompactFlash/SD on all non-smartphone PDAs.
6) Compete feature for feature with PPC: VGA screens, replacable batteries, dual Wi-Fi/Bluetooth, dual expansion, OLED screens, plain black metal cases, small/svelte size.
7) End the Cobalt Sham. Now. Everyone finally realizes Cobalt is dead. Pretending it's still a vibrant, viable OS just make everything else Palm says sound suspect.
8) Throw EVERYTHING you've got into getting an ultra-stable version of PalmLinux SHIPPING in 2006. Hire (outsource) some gifted programmers if the ones you have now can't get the job done.
9) Cut hardware prices to a less "optimistic" level. $400 T5? $500 LifeDrive? W T F are Palm's product planners thinking? Does Palm think there's an endless stream of suckers waiting to buy this offal?
10) At all costs never give up the speed, reliability and intuitive design of PalmOS. As soon as "featuritis" drives Palm to become more like PPC, Palm might as well surrender to Microsoft. The Tungsten 5 and LifeDrive seem to sugget that day is coming soon.
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
11) Add a standardized Media Player that has market share- Media Player 10, ITunes, Quicktime, Real, Sony, etc. License that media player from the company and get a portion of the download fee payable to PSRC for each unit of content downloaded as another sales outlet for the content. This would be another revenue source for the PalmSource so the Palm OS development could continue as PSRC NEEDS to attain PROFITABILITY as an important first step. Remember no bucks no buck rogers.
12) Have PSRC build specific OS's variants for specific wireless operators, Sprint, Verizon, T-Mobile, Orange, DoCoMo, etc. Encourage wireless operators to develop house brands of smartphone/feature phones that are subsidized and locked. License these wireless carriers just like manufacters and have them pay royalities to PSRC. This will create additional avenues of competition among the house phones and change the game away from the manufactures controlling the features and allow more product differination. These specific OS will be locked and only allow the apps certain wireless companies want this device to specificly use, ie. music, push email, optiumization of large company websites for thousands of workers or government sites, etc.
13) Include features on the unlocked unsubsidize OEM phones that push the technology verse trying to appeal to the individual wireless carriers preferences. Example: A Treo 650 that has dial-up Bluetooth and built-in WIFI that Sprint/Verizon does not want on their network. The UNLOCKED Treo 650U CDMA or GSM versions would have these features built in and available and be able to be used because the phone would be purchased from Palm directly without the subside from say Sprint and not be constained to the wireless industries limitations. The power users could get everything they want and the devices would not be ridiculeously limited such as blocking the bluetooth dial up and the wireless companies could push their limited revenue producing house brands.
14) Have PSRC counsultants for hire from PSRC paying PSRC on a contract basis to advice wireless operators building house phones, help wireless operators build their own phones contracted from ODM's. And create competition for PLMO.
15) Build devices with the PALM OS outside of the traditional PDA/Smartphone, Featurephone realm.
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
According to the about screen on my T|C security pref panel "Teal Security v5.10".
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
According to the about screen on my T|C security pref panel "Teal Security v5.10".
Um, as far as I know, TealLock is standard only on the Tungsten C and the Tungsten T2. It should be part of the ROM for EVERY PalmOS device. Period.
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
I doubt there's any money to be made that way. Apple barely makes money on iTunes despite millions of song sales.
12) Have PSRC build specific OS's variants for specific wireless operators, Sprint, Verizon, T-Mobile, Orange, DoCoMo, etc. Encourage wireless operators to develop house brands of smartphone/feature phones that are subsidized and locked. License these wireless carriers just like manufacters and have them pay royalities to PSRC. This will create additional avenues of competition among the house phones and change the game away from the manufactures controlling the features and allow more product differination. These specific OS will be locked and only allow the apps certain wireless companies want this device to specificly use, ie. music, push email, optiumization of large company websites for thousands of workers or government sites, etc.
Until PalmLinux arrives, locking phones down will be difficult. If you're familiar with how the Treo 600 and 650 have been hacked over the past two years you'll know how hard it is to stop those who want to bypass software restrictions. The carriers already "encourage" use of their own services, but if they push too hard people will reject the restrictions. No doubt the ability to "lock down" devices will be appreciated by companies if/when PalmLinux arrives.
13) Include features on the unlocked unsubsidize OEM phones that push the technology verse trying to appeal to the individual wireless carriers preferences. Example: A Treo 650 that has dial-up Bluetooth and built-in WIFI that Sprint/Verizon does not want on their network. The UNLOCKED Treo 650U CDMA or GSM versions would have these features built in and available and be able to be used because the phone would be purchased from Palm directly without the subside from say Sprint and not be constained to the wireless industries limitations. The power users could get everything they want and the devices would not be ridiculeously limited such as blocking the bluetooth dial up and the wireless companies could push their limited revenue producing house brands.
Less likely to work. As Palm shifts from selling PDAs to primarily being a cellphone supplier, they are at the mercy of the carriers. If carriers don't want something (e.g. Wi-Fi) because it hurts their profits, Palm would be crazy to sell
devices with those features.
14) Have PSRC counsultants for hire from PSRC paying PSRC on a contract basis to advice wireless operators building house phones, help wireless operators build their own phones contracted from ODM's. And create competition for PLMO.
Palm lacks the expertise to do this. Palm simply orders phones from a factory in the Far East that does all of the major design work for them.
15) Build devices with the PALM OS outside of the traditional PDA/Smartphone, Featurephone realm.
Too late. Palm needed to do this 3 years ago (micro laptops, GPS, ebook readers, portable typewriter/note takers, media players, etc.) but now can no longer afford to take design chances. At this point they should concentrate their resources on 2 smartphones and no more than 3 PDAs.
TVoR
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
Produce a device which will cause many loyal users to upgrade, resulting in a short term huge influx on cash. The improved sales numbers and sales market share will encourage developers to stay loyal too, and keep people thinking of Palm as a viable player.
Therefore a simple T5 sized device with WIFI, bluetooth, 128 Mb normal ram HVGA screen and dual slots. Should be cheap and easy to design and build, and could ship in six months.
Doesn't sound mad I hope. Instead of killing yourself by courting new markets constantly and neglecting your base, how about satisfying them for a change and get a quick boost.
Surur
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
This seems like such a no-brainer to me, too. And it's not just geeks that want this device. Every member (150) of my medschool class just bought PDAs. These people aren't tech geeks, but well over half of us bought PPCs for the sole reason of Wifi. And I doubt my class is unique.
I do think the LD was an attempt to innovate, but it's price makes it too much of a niche device to have a large impact.
By the way, good original post, VoR.
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
I would be willing to bet that a majority of the Palm devices out there don't have any 3rd party software on them.
"3) Decide what apps most users should have out of the box and INCLUDE THEM IN THE ROM. HandyShopper, BackupMan, DiddleBug, YAUC, TealLock, etc. Don't expect users to waste hours, days, months searching the Internet for the best apps to help them use their PDAs to the fullest."
Who decides what apps most users "should" have on their Palm??? I don't want BackupMan, I want BBVFS. Don't need DiddleBug, the builtin note application works just fine for my needs. I want DateBk5, but what about all of the Agendus users (poor soles) ;-). Not to mention that I have no need for HandyShopper, but would want an outliner...but who picks which one???
And, if they are in the ROM, what happens when the developer updates one and adds more functions? Or, is this the incentive for the developers to slow down updates? Since you can't really update the software on the Palm any further, only supply updates to Palm as they release new models. A quick way to kill development of software.
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
Feh! I don't need HandyShopper. And as it is, I'd like to get rid of the damned QuickTour icon -- I don't need others cluttering the launcher. I'll compromise: Throw them on an included CD-ROM. Then people can choose for themselves.
>>>4) Dump NVFS CrapRAM™. It is unnecessary and PalmOS 5 is choking on it. Make 128 MB of RealRAM™ standard on all devices and include a good backup app in the ROM.
Won't happen. Kirvin's column on this is correct. Your only hope is Tapwave or a surprise licensee. Don't hold your breath (well, since it's you, do!).
You address both P&PS in your comment. You should have started with:
0) Palm -- buy PalmSource NOW!
I'll add, for Palm:
Go small! Go back to your PIM roots and do a Rex-like unit, credit-card size form factor. Let those of us who can see through the multimedia sham of POS have a thin pocketable unit just for our PIM needs. Then we can go get an iPod or upcoming video iPod for *real* multimedia.
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
10) At all costs never give up the speed, reliability and intuitive design of PalmOS. As soon as "featuritis" drives Palm to become more like PPC, Palm might as well surrender to Microsoft. The Tungsten 5 and LifeDrive seem to sugget that day is coming soon."
Contradictions??? So which one is it? Be like PPC or NOT be like PPC?
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
Produce a device which will cause many loyal users to upgrade, resulting in a short term huge influx on cash. The improved sales numbers and sales market share will encourage developers to stay loyal too, and keep people thinking of Palm as a viable player.
Therefore a simple T5 sized device with WIFI, bluetooth, 128 Mb normal ram HVGA screen and dual slots. Should be cheap and easy to design and build, and could ship in six months.
Doesn't sound mad I hope. Instead of killing yourself by courting new markets constantly and neglecting your base, how about satisfying them for a change and get a quick boost.
Surur
Sounds like a good idea - and more importantly, an upgraded T5 should be easy to produce. Basically, Palm needs to release a Zodiac 2 in portrait orientation minus the dorky joystick.
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
Wrong again (as usual), Geeko. Palm still has at least another 6 - 12 months to turn things around. By that time the Treo head start will have evaporated and the smartphone playing field will no longer be tilted in Palm's favor. And Nokia (price) and Microsoft (Exchange) will be playing hardball. Since Treos are now Palm's main source of profit, if Palm fails to innovate this year it really will be "too late for Palm".
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
VoiceBoy - Your job at the PDA counter at Circus City does not make you an industry expert.
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
I would be willing to bet that a majority of the Palm devices out there don't have any 3rd party software on them.
Well you'll lose that bet. This isn't 1999 anymore. Most people install extra software (often mainly games) on their PDAs.
"3) Decide what apps most users should have out of the box and INCLUDE THEM IN THE ROM. HandyShopper, BackupMan, DiddleBug, YAUC, TealLock, etc. Don't expect users to waste hours, days, months searching the Internet for the best apps to help them use their PDAs to the fullest."
Who decides what apps most users "should" have on their Palm??? I don't want BackupMan, I want BBVFS. Don't need DiddleBug, the builtin note application works just fine for my needs. I want DateBk5, but what about all of the Agendus users (poor soles) ;-). Not to mention that I have no need for HandyShopper, but would want an outliner...but who picks which one???
Anyone at Palm with the slightest familiarity with the PalmOS application library could EASILY come up with a list of 10 - 20 apps that would vastly improve the functionality of Palms. Many of these apps are freeware, while others could be licensed for couple dollars each. Obviously every possible piece of niche software couldn't be included, but that's not the point. The point is to make Palms as useful as possible to as many people as possible right out of the box. Your arguments against this are absurd. Having these apps pre-installed doesn't preclude you using another app if it suits you better. If you prefer BBVFS, fine. USE IT. But everyone else that either wasn't aware that they should be backing up their PDA or who are OK with using BackupMan (the best backup app available for PalmOS, by the way) will have it available right out of the box.
I'd really love to hear you explain why you feel that including the FREEWARE app HandyShopper (probably one of the top 10 PalmOS apps available at ANY price) in the ROM could be A Bad Thing. Sheeesh.
And, if they are in the ROM, what happens when the developer updates one and adds more functions? Or, is this the incentive for the developers to slow down updates? Since you can't really update the software on the Palm any further, only supply updates to Palm as they release new models. A quick way to kill development of software.
Again, your argument makes no sense. Years ago, Palm used the excuse that it didn't want to add features to the ROM since doing so would hurt some developers. Palm then showed they really don't give a rat's a$$ about developers when they turned around and licensed MultiMail. And then Documents To Go. And then broke third party app compatibility with later OS updates + the infamous Data Manager/Data Mangler hatchet job. Has having MultiMail/VersaMail and Documents To Go been A Bad Thing? Is it impossible to load an updated version of software onto a Palm (either in RAM or by updating the ROM)? (Guess what? The new RAM copy will take over from the ROM copy. Wasn't that hard?) Has Documents To Go development slowed over the past three years? (MultiMail/VersaMail doesn't count since it's Palm's fault that what used to be an excellent, best-of-breed app was essentially abandoned as soon as Palm bought the parent company.) If Palm is scared about support headaches with having to update ROM apps they could simply supply the extra apps on the install disk. Or have them automatically loaded to the Installer when HotSync Manager is first installed. Or supply 128 MB of RealRAM™ standard so that later loading a couple MB worth of updates into RAM is a nonissue.
We already know Palm doesn't care what happens to developers. It's time for Palm to do the right thing and start offering value for the money. HandyShopper, McFile, YAUC, BackupMan, McPhling, a decent financial app that links to Quicken and Money, Vexed, TealLock, DiddleBug, a movie database, etc, etc. Show everyone what a Palm can do RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. Telling consumers to find these apps themselves while charging them through the nose for the same bare bones PIM apps that haven't really changed since 1997 is ridiculous.
The real reason Palm has not updated its software in 8 years is... because they thought they could get away with it. Zen of Palm, heartfelt concerns for poor developers, etc. were all just slick ways to spin the truth. Supplying apps creates support costs that Palm is unwilling to pay. Palm fails to see that instead, by continuing to rip off consumers with cheap hardware and no software, they'll probably soon pay The Ultimate Price.
TVoR
©2005. The Voice of Reason, Inc.
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
Oh please!
BTW, I see the Mace Filet & Grill at AAP is shaping up nicely. I'm glad you asked this:
- Will clipboard and memo sizes ever be increased for PalmOS 5?
Too bad PalmSource's Michael Mace will run and hide:
He won't answer a SINGLE hard question here. In fact, I'll bet the "interview" gets called off.
And don't be jealous that my posts are copyrighted, Cane.
TVoR
© 2005. The Voice of Reason, Inc.
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
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The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
Wait a minute here. In a prior post you swished that Bercow was trying to moo back developers. Has he taken his milk and gone home now?
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
Wait a minute here. In a prior post you swished that Bercow was trying to moo back developers. Has he taken his milk and gone home now?
Bercow is trying to undo four years of damage to developer relations. The fact that PalmSource had the cojones to charge developers for membership in a "special" developers club shows the company still is out of touch with reality. Bercow's a solid citizen, but I doubt even he can change this degree of arrogance at Palm. Incredible.
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7867#108287
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
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The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
RE: Top 10 ways for Palm to save the platform:
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
Latest Comments
- I got one -Tuckermaclain
- RE: Don't we have this already? -Tuckermaclain
- RE: Palm brand will return in 2018, with devices built by TCL -richf
- RE: Palm brand will return in 2018, with devices built by TCL -dmitrygr
- Palm phone on HDblog -palmato
- Palm PVG100 -hgoldner
- RE: Like Deja Vu -PacManFoo
- Like Deja Vu -T_W
Suddenly seems to be push email EVERYWHERE!
Had Palm come up with the Seven/Good/etc solutions 3 years ago they would be what Blackberry is now. And it's not like the technology was lacking at the time.
PROBLEM: These solutions are so late to the market that Microsoft has had time to regroup and will now leverage its massive installed user base of Microsoft Exchange servers to push Microsoft branded push email and scheduling.
Will companies prefer a turnkey all-Microsoft push system or one cobbled together by a bunch of unknown startups? Guess.
TVoR
"iPoo, therefore I am."
- Ricky Martin
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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038