Comments on: SFGate Editorial on IPhone's Success & Palm

The San Francisco Gate has posted a new editorial entitled, "IPhone's success spawns generations of imitators-and challengers". The piece does not focus exclusively on Apple’s much-hyped entry into the smartphone market, however, as it also offers some discussion focusing on Palm’s cloudy outlook as well as some choice quotes from a Palm spokesperson.

Some interesting comments are attributed to Palm's Rob Katcher, senior product manager for smartphones, regarding the new Palm Centro. By far the most intriguing comment from Palm is the statement by Mr. Katcher that the iPhone hoopla has "cued people in" to touch-sensitive LCDs, a Palm hallmark since the launch of the original Pilot in 1996. Katcher additionally comments that Palm’s marketing push for the Centro has been geared to play up the touch screen's capabilities in light of the iPhone frenzy. Such statements directly from a higher-up at Palm will only make long-term Palm OS users wonder why Palm has not released a device with a resolution greater than 320x320 since 2005, as Palm has produced PDAs since 2003 utilizing 320x480 LCDs—the exact same resolution found in the Apple iPhone.

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iPod Touch vs. Palm

mbgrayson @ 11/6/2007 1:27:56 PM # Q
I have been using Palm products since the beginning: ten years now.

About three or four years ago, Palm was still on the cutting edge of technology, and did things like implement WiFi and bluetooth.

Currently, I have a Talm TX, Palm Tungsten T3, a Treo 700 P, and an iPod Touch, whcih is of course, new.

Currently, with my iTOuch fully 'jailbroken', it does most everything my Palm products can do, and mostly does them better.

The Safari web browser is so much better than Blazer on the TX or Treo. It loads MUCH faster, displays almost all web pages, and allows you to easily resize the screen to a readable and useable view.

There are still only a few third party apps for the iTouch, but more are being released every day. Also few accessories so far, and the iTouch cannot take SD cards or any external memory.

I would love to see Palm update and modernize their OS, browser, and hardware. If they stay stagnant much longer, they will be losing their loyal customer base to other products that are moving forward.


RE: iPod Touch vs. Palm
InsGuy @ 11/6/2007 2:37:11 PM # Q
I have the iPhone. What do you mean, "jailbroken" with regards to the iPod Touch? I ended up getting an unlocked iPhone, specifically for the ability to enter or edit Calendar events directly on the 'phone' as my daily situation may warrant. I was not able to do that on the Touch, so I was able to return the Touch. I've not heard the term "jailbroken", per se, with regards to the Touch, so I was curious if there was something new I wasn't aware of.

I have LOVED the iPhone since the minute I got it. Since mine is unlocked (from ebay), I use it for PIM, music, photos, and web surfing. That's really about all I use a pda for, and for me, since I use Mac computers at home and work, the iPhone was the perfect replacement for my aging Axim X30 (I've long since given up on Palm products), and my wife's Zodiac2.

Just my opinion.

All good things...

RE: iPod Touch vs. Palm
t3h @ 11/6/2007 5:40:40 PM # Q
Jailbroken = hacked to allow installation of third-party apps (it doesn't officially support them yet. I say yet, as the SDK has been announced, and will be released early next year...).

Palm TX + 1GB SD + Motorola v3x = awesomeness
RE: iPod Touch vs. Palm
hoodoo @ 11/7/2007 9:10:40 AM # Q
The iPod Touch "jailbreak" refers specifically to installing many of the iPhone programs on the Touch. Such as...drum roll please...editable calendar events. The Touch & iPhone are amazing pieces of hardware, regardless of Apple intentionally crippling some the Touch's software (mostly the PDA functions).

I bought myself the Touch, I'll probably wait until Apple releases functionality updates in early 2008 (rumour has it) before I "jailbreak" the touch.

I now have a Blackberry for work and the Touch for personal use...even so I still read Palminfocenter every day...hmmmmm. meanwhile the Treos (180 and 600), Visor, m105, etc sit in a drawer at home.

RE: iPod Touch vs. Palm
InsGuy @ 11/7/2007 3:48:52 PM # Q
Cool!! The calendar events was the number one reason I went with the iPhone over the Touch. Now, if that is a reality (or will be shortly), then that will REALLY appeal to a lot of people. I think the UI is pretty good now, so with the ability to allow 3rd party apps in the future, my next pda may be an Apple, too! :)

All good things...
RE: iPod Touch vs. Palm
hkklife @ 11/7/2007 4:05:16 PM # Q
You know, this might be a Herculean task but I'd LOVE for someone to list all of the functionality missing in a stock Touch vs. a stock TX.

I mean, the lack of IR, expandable memory, stylus, character recognition, hard buttons etc is a given. But I'm talking about the iPod's lack of BT DUN, the inexplicably crippled calendar function, any other PIM shortcomings, etc.

If I really had the $ to burn I'd buy a damn Touch just to play with! But if I am going to buy an iPod then it'll have to be a 160GB Classic so I can put my entire music collection on there.

BTW: When ANYONE (including Palm employees) makes the $100 Centro (or $300 Treo) vs. $400 iPhone comparison they also need to factor in $100 for a (rare) 8GB microSDHC card, then $25 for a copy of Kinoma to make it anywhere close to an even comparison. I'm not defending EITHER company (both devices are considerably flawed IMO) but just trying to level the specs on both devices out as much as possible.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

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I still don't understand it

imfallen_angel @ 11/6/2007 2:20:40 PM # Q
What are the people at Palm doing?

My experience:

I've had 3 models, starting with the M105, then the M130, and now, I've had a Zire 71 for years.

I'd switch to a TX if they weren't as expensive. But for my needs, the Zire 71 has been so great, that my wife had to have one... so now we have 4 Zire 71, just in case one dies on us (and we got them cheap off eBay)

But anyways, I have used my Palm as a laptop, using and trying out so many software that I really have done everything that a laptop can.

Then, as mp3 players started to become more and more "standard" and popular, I've been using my Palm as my MP3 and media player, and years later, it still outdoes everything out there.

So where is Palm? Why aren't they showing this off more.

Why can't they push out a new TX with a few more options?

From what I've seen, the browser is the #1 thing that would need fixing, but the video and audio capacity are king when used with TCPMP and PocketTunes.

If Palm were to forge an alliance with Creative Labs and the people that makes TCPMP/PocketTunes/others and make a media player that would have the quality (audio) of the Zen and the abilities of the Palms, then push out some good publicity to seriously put them back on the map.

Simply put... make a Palm with full multimedia capacity, including 160-200Gb flash memory, a video/audio out, radio, microphone, camera, and better browser, AND make them really affordable, and I truly believe that nothing out there would compare.

And then push out the commercials... let everyone know that Palms are a strong/great choice.

The fact that software can be changed, updates, upgrades would have people thinking twice about the next machine they'd get.

Let them know that this would be a serious machine that's as easy as a toy to handle.

Let them know that this would be a music and video machine that can be used for word processing, spreadsheets and browsing.

Seriously... the potential is all there. But are they even looking at what people actually want?

The Foleo is a joke, the idea is good, but seriously, it won't sell the way it was. If they want a chance with it, then simply: less expensive, keep the touch screen, make it into a real laptop, simply explained: make a larger TX with a foldout full size keyboard. Heck, how about a folding screen? Make it something that people will be stunned with, not just "nice, another one of those".

Bad management is killing them. I know that if I'd be in charge, Palm would have never fell the way is has, and I could make it return stronger than ever.

RE: I still don't understand it
Tuckermaclain @ 11/6/2007 2:49:37 PM # Q
Four Zire 71s? Looking into my box of old Palms in my office I found:

1. Vx.
2. m500. Mint condition. One of my favorites.
3. m505.
4,5. Z71 x2. Wife uses one.
6. SJ33
7. Z72
8. T/X
9,10. T2 x2, new old-stock.

Others have been given away or died. Who has the most @ PIC?

RE: I still don't understand it
hkklife @ 11/6/2007 3:16:15 PM # Q
I usually always sold whatever Palm devices I had to fund the upgrade to the newest model. Of course, that's not so easily done in this day of smartphones/2yr contracts/carrier exclusives/Palm's glacially slow release schedule. Despite that, I've kept my original Pilot & Palm Pilot as well as my final "new" Palm PDA (TX) for nostalgia reasons.

Here's what I currently have:

1. Pilot 1000 (Bought at Egghead Software at launch in '96)

2. Palm Pilot Personal (Received as a gift in '97)

3. Palm Pilot Professional (with Palm III upgrade "card" installed)

4. Palm VII. Received as a gift a while back. Absolutely flawless condition

4. Palm TX (bought new at launch in '05)

5. Palm TX "just in case" unit bought last year

6. 700p 1.10 (my daily device)

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: I still don't understand it
PacManFoo @ 11/6/2007 4:00:13 PM # Q
My PDA history can be found in my signature. I still have in drawers the IIIxe, Visor Platinum, M500, now dead TX, and Tungsten T. As for the Newton's I still have the MP100 and Casio EM500 on the ppc side.

Played with the iPod Touch today and was blown away. I think I know now which direction I will be going now that I need to buy a new device. It still has some limitations that I don't like but just the browsing experience alone was so much better then the TX. Looking forward to see what happens in February.

PDA's Past and Present:
iPod Touch ???? Maybe soon.
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100

RE: I still don't understand it
abosco @ 11/6/2007 4:27:05 PM # Q
Aaron Ardiri probably has the largest collection. A few years ago, he posted a picture of his PDA pile. It was a mountain of old PDA's, probably six inches high and 18 inches across, coming to 40-50 PDA's.

I'm glad to see people here moving to the iPod Touch. It's the only remaining non-Microsoft PDA, so it's a logical switch from the Palm platform. And good lord is it good at what it does.

NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a

RE: I still don't understand it
pascanu @ 11/7/2007 4:52:42 AM # Q
1. Handsping Visor x2 (unusable)
2. Palm m505 (broke)
3. Palm m515 (parts)
4. Zire 71 (probably unsusable)
5. Zire 72 (my son uses it for games)
6. Palm TX (my wife uses it)
7. Treo 650 (2 years old, still working great!)

Handspring Visor -> m505 -> Zire71 -> Zire72 -> Treo650
RE: I still don't understand it
hoodoo @ 11/7/2007 9:23:45 AM # Q
1. m100 (broken)
2. m105 (6 year old daughter uses)
3. Treo 180 (in drawer)
4. used Visor Prism (in drawer)
5. treo 600 (in drawer)
6. z22 (wife uses)

***PALM look below****

6. Blackberry 7100 (currently in use)
7. iPod Touch (currently in use)

RE: I still don't understand it
InsGuy @ 11/7/2007 3:57:34 PM # Q
1.) m515
2.) Tungsten T
3.) Tungsten T2
4.) Zodiac 2
At this point, I laughed at the T3, for what they were charging and what it didn't do. Now, I crossed to the 'dark side'.

4.) Axim X3i
5.) Axim X30h
6.) Axim X50V (but changed back to X30 because it was more pocketable)

7.) iphone

Crap, as I look at this list, I didn't realize I'd had so many pdas since my first m515. However, I don't have any regrets with any I purchased, and I've always like the next one I got too. Since I was used to learning a new OS, when I switched to the Axims, learning the iPhone was no problem. I do have to say, for me, the easiest to use of them all has been the iPhone. I know many will disagree with me, but many will probably agree with me as well.

All good things...

RE: I still don't understand it
mikecane @ 11/8/2007 9:33:28 AM # Q
1) Palm III
2) Sony CLIE S320
3) Toshiba GENIO PPC (died in 6 months, but was off ebay; still...)
4) Everex Palm-size PC (bought as collector's item; what crap!!!)
5) Palm TE (died in less than a year!)
6) Sony CLIE S320 (had to buy a replacement off ebay)
7) CFed LifeDrive (the Pits!!!)

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Hmm, history a bit off...

WareW01f @ 11/6/2007 3:43:07 PM # Q
the iPhone hoopla has "cued people in" to touch-sensitive LCDs, a Palm hallmark since the launch of the original Pilot in 1996.

Not to split hairs, but the Newton was touch based. (and predates Palm) And the Palm OS has always been a bit to close to the early Mac OS (RezEdit, etc.) I often found better docs on Apples site for Palm development (fonts are a good one).

Course if you walk into an Apple store and mention a Newton now... you get a blank stare.
RE: Hmm, history a bit off...
hkklife @ 11/6/2007 3:58:02 PM # Q
Well, of course, I never meant that Palm pioneered the use of touchscreens in a handheld device. I was just referring to the fact that all Palm products (other than the Treo 500v & the stillborn Fooleo) have used touchscreens since the company's first Pilot in '96.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Hmm, history a bit off...
freakout @ 11/8/2007 2:35:17 AM # Q
Palm's recent launch of its first non-touchscreen equipped device, the internationally focused Windows Mobile 6 Standard powered Treo 500v on Vodafone, also is a bizarre departure from the company’s previously touchscreen-exclusive product strategy, especially in light of the strong support evidenced above for the Centro’s LCD.

It is odd. Having used the 500v for a week now, the lack of a touchscreen is super frustrating, especially with the sloooooooooow scrolling speeds and clunky WinMob interface. It wasn't so bad on the 750, 'cause you could always had the touchscreen to compensate. But without it, it quickly becomes apparent just how poor WinMob's standard interface design really is. So much unnecessary clutter to wade through!

Getting rid of it has enabled Palm to create a thinner, more lightweight device, though, which I suppose is more important to some. And the screen is gorgeous, even if it is still too small. Video especially looks great - it just looks better in "widescreen" (even if that does just mean "chopping off 80 pixels from the square-screen models).

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What I would do if I were a Palm Exec

jonecool @ 11/6/2007 11:29:15 PM # Q
1) Take the T|X device and insert the CDMA/GSM Radio.
2) Hire a team of graphic artist to create a new graphical launcher and update all PIM apps. with the images the artists create using either Garnet or the LinuxOS (whichever can get to market faster, perhaps have an internal competion among development groups *they share the graphic artists*. First devl. team across the finish line *product review* gets an all expense paid vacation to Hawaii).
3) Increase the width slightly to support a higher capacity battery (that is removable).
4) Kill Graffiti 2 (it sux) and use Graffiti 1 (they did win the suit didn't they?) and an new and improved on-screen keyboard.
5) Add a pop-out or slide-out physical keypad using the Treo-style layout.
6) Make sure my Development partners have one of these pre-production units for testing to ensure compatibility (i.e. CASL, HB++, etc.)
7) Make sure the launcher in #2 uses the same flipping technique of the iPhone (with a twist of Palm Zen).
8) Must haves: min of 64MB RAM, 16GB internal Flash storage, mini SD slot, WiFi, CDMA/GSM Radio, Bluetooth, 5-way nav, internal GPS Locator. 95% of what Palm has delivered in the past, just not all at once.

Market the heck out of it and call it "Flipper".

So, am I Fired or Hired?

RE: What I would do if I were a Palm Exec
pascanu @ 11/7/2007 6:23:56 AM # Q
Price tag?

Handspring Visor -> m505 -> Zire71 -> Zire72 -> Treo650
RE: What I would do if I were a Palm Exec
Gekko @ 11/7/2007 6:59:55 AM # Q

you're stuck in 2000. it's almost 2008. nobody wants this device.

RE: What I would do if I were a Palm Exec
tryingtoquit @ 11/7/2007 10:05:08 AM # Q
You’re so close. What I would do is:
1. Fire Culligan because it would feel good.
2. Make Hawkins go to every Bono concert until he apologizes for killing his pda line.
3. Force anyone who mentions Folio to pay hefty fees into a penalty jar, proceeds to go to focus groups to determine the color scheme for the Treo 1000.
4. Increase productivity by firing anyone not intricately instrumental in making my coffee.
5. Sell $24.9% of the company to Aerosmith.
6. Buy Apple so I can finally bring good management to that hapless concern.

RE: What I would do if I were a Palm Exec
mbgrayson @ 11/7/2007 10:41:10 AM # Q
License Safari from Apple...

RE: What I would do if I were a Palm Exec
Valhala @ 11/8/2007 3:39:34 AM # Q
Screw Palm, I have gone through the SubPrime bubble, The war, the reality of the iPhone, OJ, and then to top all this misery off Palm's fumbling of the foleo and the piece of stinking @*%# LifeDrive and Centro. Thankyou Palm for the added imcompetence we already have in a overly imcompetent world. When you are dead you will not be missed.

RE: What I would do if I were a Palm Exec
Valhala @ 11/8/2007 3:39:39 AM # Q
Screw Palm, I have gone through the SubPrime bubble, The war, the reality of the iPhone, OJ, and then to top all this misery off Palm's fumbling of the foleo and the piece of stinking @*%# LifeDrive and Centro. Thankyou Palm for the added imcompetence we already have in a overly imcompetent world. When you are dead you will not be missed.

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naio21 @ 11/7/2007 1:23:05 PM # Q
Crapple is a shyte company.

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