Comments on: ACCESS and PalmSource Announce the ACCESS Linux Platform

It was still there the day I left.

It's nonsense they're sort of stuck with if they refuse to break the POS 5 and previous model of how Search works, and at last count they were still refusing to do that.

(knowing grin)

May You Live in Interesting Times

You mean the fact that (if memory serves) Find sends a launch code to every find-registered application on the device in turn so the app can perform its own search on its data.

It seems to me that was a requirement because of the fact that under the old DataManager only the application that created a database had a clue what the structure of a record was. If the DM has been replaced with a real database engine there's no longer a reason to delegate searches to the apps: it should be much easier to just query the database directly. I'd expect the old model for performing searches to be something that lives on only within PACE.

By the way, I don't have any objection at all to the multi-tasking model that requires the developer to specifically code his intention that his app be able to go into the background when another one launches. Good mobile developers know how to save/restore state appropriately at appStop/appStart and have a good idea whether the application is the sort of thing where its presence in the background could serve a useful purpose. Most apps people use aren't going to do anything but waste resources running in a background thread, leading to the kind of memory management nightmares that Windows Mobile users have long complained of (and more recently Nokia 770 users). Make multi-tasking a choice for the developer and his users, not something you ram down everyone's throat by default.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

It is funny that 64mb is cramping on these devices when we used to be able to run workstations with good interactivity on 32mb or less.

feature bloat is not your friend

May You Live in Interesting Times

EVDO has been hacked onto FrankenGarnet. BT 1.2 wouldn't be a big deal to add...but things like A2DP might be.

VGA support, multi-threading etc. would be nigh impossible to hack onto it.

So, while a THOROUGHLY hacked & cleaned-up (as TVOR has long suggested) Garnet 5.9 would be sufficient to power low-end PDAs and, yes, cheap Treos for the next year or so, there's simply no way it can hang in there COMPETITIVELY through the end of '07 or early '08. In many ways the return of SSS (320*320) has been a blessing for Palm as that's far easier for Garnet to handle than HVGA.

I'd LOVE to see an internal Palm roadmap for the forseeable future. I am willing to bet it includes a trickle of new products with everything other than <$200 PDAs in '07 running WnMob. Expect lots of "undead" models ala T|C/Treo 650 that continue on long after their expiration dates have passed just to give the illusion that Palm's still "supporting" POS.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

I don't believe they will put time (and time is money) recreating their applications from zero unless the first REAL ALP device hit the shelves.

Cobalt's vapor burned Palmsource's arse pretty hard. It will take a great amount of time for them to regain the developers community confidence...

Ivan

I'm sure TVoR did. ;)

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

I saw that. It does look like they're also building in a SyncML client, but the press release specifically talks about leveraging PalmSource technology including HotSync and Palm Desktop (guess they'll need a new name for that, heh).

And btw, what's the good thing in SyncML?

Notice that it says SyncML DM/DS. DS is data sync. That's an XML-based protocol for synchronizing application data that will work over the air, unlike HotSync. DM is device management. Properly configured, that will enable admins to remotely manage software on the device, querying its state, installing or uninstalling software, perhaps locking the device down or deleting sensitive data if it's been reported stolen. That kind of stuff.

SyncML is rapidly becoming the new standard for over-the-air synchronization.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Interesting. Didn't know that. What are the implications as far as porting apps from the X version of GTK?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

I'm sure all the 3rd party developers are screaming "yes" please! It would simplify support if the executables are recognizably different for MAX API apps. The classic Palm apps that run in PACE will still be the same ol' same ol', though.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

To licensees, maybe, but not to actual people. As far as the user is concerned, the OS doesn't ship until there are devices running on it.

Of course. According to LinuxDevices.com the demand for this is especially strong with the European wireless operators. I'm thinking maybe mLinux is going to target the East Asian market (already is, actually), Europe gets ALP, and North America gets... probably 8 more years of Garnet! :-P

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Lisa, or, more recently, the original MacOS.

or an SDK that was released without an OS?

There are OS independent SDKs. That, supposedly, is what QTopia is all about.

"OS" has never been a clearly defined term. ;)

May You Live in Interesting Times

Therein lies the crux of the problem. Even if Access does manage to ship the OS by the end end of this year - avoiding delays - it will be up to twelve months beyond that before we see shipping devices running this entirely new operating system. That puts ALP well into 2007, and that's looking at the situation with great optimism. 2008 is more realistic, especially where cellular devices are concerned because you're dealing with two parallel development cycles; the hardware vendor's product development cycle, and the carrier testing and network integration phase - which can tack on several more months of lead time.

The other, more worrying, issue is that I'm reading that ALP will look nothing like the current PalmOS GUI we're all accustomed to. While I've been a big advocate in revitalizing and improving the badly aging Palm interface, I wasn't planning on chucking it out the window entirely, and I'm afraid that may be what we're up against. When the first images of ALP begin to emerge we may be startled by the changes.

All in all today's news is extremely bitter sweet. More bitter than sweet though.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

If I recall correctly, 3 months, but it's not a fair comparison. Maemo and the N770 are completely new to Nokia and don't have a direct impact on their main business, so the full project could be run in stealth mode until it was ready. It looks like it took about 24 months for Maemo to be ready enough to use.

May You Live in Interesting Times

You establish yourself in the open source community by being the developer of an open source package that gets heavily used.

Unfortunately for Access, none of the open source components mentioned are currently being developed by PalmSource. We shall have to see if they can really manage to add any value to gtk+.

May You Live in Interesting Times

Open Binder is the only thing of any signficance that they've contributed, and they are not the principle developer of it any more.

I tossed some driver changes and some filesystem fixes over the wall when I was there. They've got some more driver changes and maybe some power management they can toss over the wall eventually.

In the OSS community, that's not even enough to establish me as an individual contributor, let alone an entire company as a player.

Lefty very much wants to contribute to OSS and for PSRC to be a good citizen. He's championed that from the start of the Linux project. I wish him the best luck, because it would be an excellent demonstration of a good interaction, but I don't think the expediencies of the industry are going to allow him to contribute very much.

May You Live in Interesting Times

That's a damned shame. On the other hand, I know how it is. I've been working for several months for a client that has been more than willing to let us push the envelope with an open source framework (Eclipse, in this case) and contribute features and bug fixes back to the community. The team has a guy with committer status and we have what from a programmer's standpoint has been an enviable opportunity to make significant contributions to one of the major new features of Eclipse 3.2. It's exciting, but... it's also cost us a lot of time. Time that we were initially successful in justifying to the suits with the usual arguments for being open source, but which now is getting very difficult to justify as deadlines start to close in. And I consider ourselves to have been extremely lucky to have far-sighted execs who understood the benefit to the company long term.

When you contribute code to open source--major stuff at least--you can't just "throw it over the wall" and not deal with the issues that other users of the code bring up. The bigger the contribution, the more you're seen as being responsible for it, for making the big decisions when they come up, and the more time you spend dealing with concerns that maybe you didn't have to deal with for your own purposes. Yes, you get contributions back that benefit you. But if you're really being a champion like I was talking about, you have to have the time and inclination to be somewhat selfless. Or someone has to pay you to be that selfless (as I firmly believe IBM should do for my team!)

So, I can certainly see how at this moment in time it's difficult for PalmSource to contribute as they should. I still say that for their ultimate success they've got to fight mightily to get to the place where they are taking this leadership role. I'd like to think that ACCESS would have the resources to make this possible, but from what you say I wonder if they'll see the wisdom in it. I hope the case is being made at every opportunity.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

One can be sophisticated and still champion open source. Not, I suspect, that you could fathom the reasons why that can be a good thing for one's stockholders.

It'll be interesting to see how Google reconciles their secretiveness with their desire to do no evil with respect to OSS once the electric sheep get finished dreaming.

May You Live in Interesting Times

I'm a reasonable man. I'll even accept a personal check.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Hmmm... they've got that great Indian buffet across the street... and I hear they pick you up at the airport in a white limo... and put you up in this nice private bungalow.... Still they'd never have me. ;-)

Truthfully, I'm thinking more all the time that Moto is going to sleep out the whole native application scene and just suck on the Java teat for as long as it can. So, I'll probably lose our bet, but it'll be fun to see what happens with ALP anyway.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Also note that POS shares equal footing with Java. Also you still have not shown that Max UI=Cobalt.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

It also seems that for the most part that the PalmOS is basically thrown out, with the MAX apps and framework getting the most play here. I wonder how that will play out with 3rd party developers who are not so privy to wanting to work within carrier constraints.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

Very interesting. So APLOS (i.e, dog food os) will now have 4 different applicaton development tracks for devs to choose from?! I assume this is a good thing right?

PalmOS 68k - legacy palmos apps
MaxUI - Cobalt apps
Java
GTK

So java will now be integrated into the OS and separate java plugin will not be necessary?

--------------------
Gaurav

Current devices: Treo 650 + Axim X50v
Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600

Moderator, Treocentral

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

It would be a disappointment to describe MAX as being Cobalt. We're all hoping for something that will fare much, much better in the eyes of device manufacturers and wireless operators.

Like I said, I don't even think Palm developers will care if the API is somewhat different from Cobalt. It's not like there are a lot of us who spent the time porting our apps over from the Garnet SDK. All we care about is (1) does it ship on a good number of devices? (2) does it take two weeks to port a Palm application or two months? and (3) are there reasonably good development tools? Linux hackers won't even care about #3, just give 'em their GCC and they're happy.

Any way, I will be curious to see how MAX differs from Cobalt. The 2007 DevCon should be interesting.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Those voices are in your head, Adama. The rest of us can't hear them, OK?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Well, that was quite unneccessarily rude.

For the record, my statement was aimed at Doc Op, who had the following to say in response to asking where Cobalt was in this new OS.

MAX is derived from the cobalt layer. Duh. :)

So try looking before you shoot, eh? This isn't a Vice Presidential hunting trip.

Brawling? BRAWLING? You must've been spending some cold winter nights with Bubba Steve's Wifey, Beersie! ;-)

In all seriousness, I'd wager my gut instict now by saying that whatever PalmSource/Access CLAIMS right now about bits'n bolts being lifted out of Cobalt is just their way of trying to put a positive spin on that debacle. At any rate...it's too early to tell one way or the other. But, judging by their very lax standards for considering a licensee "active" on their website, I'm assuming the above.

If/when down the road the technical types here can verify how much/little was lifted from the corpse of Cobalt I'm certain they will comment with great vigor.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

The sad part is she could kick Beersy's sorry a$$ with one hand tied behind her back:

http://www.angryredplanet.com/~hackbod/rodney/story.html

Beersy getting p0Wn3d: http://www.angryredplanet.com/~hackbod/rodney/rodney22.jpg

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Skippy, in recent days you've said everything from six months to many years. About the only thing you haven't guessed at is geologic eras.

As always, your "unique" version of reality is a joy to behold, Marty.

Regular readers here at Palminfocenter know I said all along that PalmSource would not make their claimed PalmLinux completion date of Summer 2006 (because that date looked like a blatant attempt to deceive). 2007 (and most likely 2008) was the earliest E.T.A. for PalmLinux.

Now that NetFrontLinux is the "New Plan", everything (and nothing) has changed. 2008 would be an optimistic goal for this OS showing up. I would not even be surprised if - like Cobalt - NetFrontLinux NEVER shows up, and Access goes bankrupt. In fact, I'll go on record for predicting that Access will be out of business by 2009. You heard it here first, folks.

>>>Hearing you admit this publicly is not exactly helping PalmSource's attempts to spin this announcement in a positive light.

Oh yeah, that's right, you've already shown that math's not your strong suit. They started a year ago, skippy. They've just announced they'll need another year. There's your 18-24 months.

I haven't admitted anything that's not public plan of record at Access.

My math has proven to be a lot more accurate than MartyMath. Keep posting here though, Marty. Perhaps someone out there will not fail to see through your mendacity.

And Access/PalmSource will have bupkis to deliver even if you wait until February 2007. If you believe otherwise, you are a fool. (Evidently, you believe otherwise...)

By the way, Skippy, in your 'deep' analysis, you've missed the obvious again. It's amazing how you keep missing such huge factors, especially when Access has done everything short of put neon signs on them to point them out.

Marty, the only thing that's "amazing" is the fact that you STILL don't seem to understand when you've been shown to be a buffoon. Have someone read over the threads you've posted to and ask them to explain this to you.

Take care, Buddy. May the Lord have mercy upon your soul.

TVoR

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Skippy, in recent days you've said everything from six months to many years. About the only thing you haven't guessed at is geologic eras.

Well what have we here?

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8373#118396

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/9/2006 9:25:36 PM #

I said all along that PalmLinux (Cobalt leftovers + Linux kernel) was dead and that NetFrontLinux "NFL" (NetFront + PACE + even fewer pieces of Cobalt + Linux kernel) was the "new plan". Access realized PalmLinux was going to take too long and would not bring anything adequately competitive to the market. Thanks for confirming this, but you might want to re-read your NDA before PalmSource's lawyers rip you a new one.

Unfortunately, NetFrontLinux is not going to come close to meeting the original development timeline proposed for PalmLinux. The new roadmap will lead stralght to the Sea of Red Ink, right next to Cobalt Town. I feel Access weren't being realistic if they thought they could quickly integrate NetFront and PalmLinux into a STABLE OS in less than 2 years, especially with so few skilled codemonkeys.

NetFrontLinux will probably need another 18 - 24 months worth of development before being worth risking NetFront's good name on it. DoCoMo might be big enough to afford to blow $30 - 40 million on a gamble on such a long shot, but they aren't stupid and won't stick with NetFrontLinux when it becomes apparent that it's vaporware. Windows Mobile and less ambitious custom Linux platform development is not exactly going to stop over the next 24 months and they're already here NOW and shipping on REAL phones. NetFrontLinux is yet another pipe dream along the lines of Copeland, BeOS and Cobalt. PalmSource/Access don't even have enough codemonkeys to realistically take a shot at getting out a rock solid NetFrontLinux before the smartphone industry has standardized on other platforms.

**************************************************************************

You're just TOO funny, Marty.

Don't get hurt, Buddy. I don't want to see anything happen to my pet codemonkey...

TVoR

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

You can skip the quotes. We've all grown used to the way you write many claims and then later recall only the ones that suit your current whim.

Feel free to post a qoute backing up what you claimed I had said, Marty. I DARE YOU.

You really are a mendacious little piece of ****[*].

[*corn]

TVoR

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

It's cute when you rant like this, but 5 increasingly shrill posts in a few minutes?

Yon need to get away from the help desk and see one of the docs, Skip, you're losing it.

May You Live in Interesting Times

anyway, it's hillarious that you of all people would make an issue out of truth, when you wouldn't recognize the truth if it walked into that basement of yours and smacked you up the side of the head with the clue bat.

now be a good little troll and crawl back under your rock. the adults are talking about things far beyond your ken.

May You Live in Interesting Times

Although you can find places where PalmSource talked about Summer '06, you had to be careful to read exactly what they were talking about, and sometimes I think there was some misdirection. The plan I recall being announced around the time of the '05 DevCon (as confirmed again by Albert Chu today) was to release two platforms this year. The one that they suggested they'd release in the summer was the low-end PalmSource Feature Phone OS, not the Cobalt-based "Palm OS for Linux". There were indications that that first release might not run Palm OS applications at all, but merely have "data-compatible" PIM applications so people could easily graduate from their PalmSource Feature Phone to the smartphone platform. (This hasn't been discussed much here, but here's a link that indicates I'm not the only one who heard them say this: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,119914,00.asp)

My recollection is that the Cobalt-based OS was promised for the Fall of this year, not Summer. So, what the announcement has done is not so much to set back the release date for the new OS that the denizens of PIC have been waiting for as to cancel the release of the one that we, uh, weren't really waiting for.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Ambiguity no. Misdirection might be a nice word to use for it. Let's just say that this is different from what I recall being said at the conference that immediately preceded that interview. I don't believe the plan was to release the high-end smartphone/PDA OS in the summer and I don't recall anyone at DevCon saying they would.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7946

Low-end feature phone platform: "summer '06"
High-end smartphone platform: "second half of '06"

What PalmSource was cagey about is the fact that the low-end platform was not necessarily expected to be an open Palm OS platform. Read how PalmSource defines "feature phone" and you'll see that this means "no third-party applications, except Java".

All in all, I'm relived that they are leaving the work on that kind of platform to CMS with their mFone platform, even if we don't see those phones here in the states. PalmSource needs to keep its focus on mobile computing, IMO.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1925451,00.asp

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

I think the idea of someone licensing CE.NET and creating a better UI than WM's is exciting. Whether Intrinsyc has the skills to do that remains to be seen. I speculated on Treocentral recently that Palm ought to do that. They've already got a relationship with Palm and are gaining experience with .NET. Their big problem long-term with the WM Treo platform is that they'll have little to differentiate themselves from other WM licensees who will have access to the same built-in one-hand-friendly functionality. A custom home/phone screen isn't going to be enough. But if they licensed CE.NET, dragged Hawkins out of the brain lab, and made a truly wonderful UI on top of CE.NET coupled with an SDK for developers to take advantage of it, they could have something special.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

Unfortunately, the "leverage" gained is far outweighed by the cost of obtaining it.

May You Live in Interesting Times

No. No one at PSRC is dumb enough to think that approach would work. Everyone understands that the only way to be seen in a positive light by the community is to give back.

May You Live in Interesting Times

May You Live in Interesting Times

Any idea when they plan to EOL Garnet completely?

Thanks!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

NEVER.

You cannot kill that which is Undead.

PalmOS 5 ("Garnet") shipped in June,2003 and was designed to be a stopgap measure simply for moving PalmOS onto ARM processors, buying time until PalmOS 6 ("Cobalt") was completed. It should have been discontinued at the end of 2004. Instead, in 2006 we find it bravely soldiering on, now crawling on its hands and knees. Gasping as it chokes repeatedly on NVFS, telephony and soon EVDO. This is disgraceful. If PalmOS 5 was an animal, it would have been put to sleep YEARS AGO.

TVoR

Free Cobalt! Free Tibet! Free James Brown!

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

I think I'm doing an interview of my own so I'll save the rest of my questions for that.

Thanks, Ryan.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

I'd also be interested in how much they would be willing to reveal about the work they are doing with DogFood (easier to say that APLOS) in terms of where the project is in current standing compared to what we read in the press release today.

Final question: do they think that another wait of a year would have a positive impact on carrier, customer, and manufacturer acceptance of DogFood (I really like that name, it actually sounds more fun than APLOS).

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

Come on, 'Toine. Why would PalmSource want to help users squeeze even more life out of their ceurrent devices? Get serious. PalmSource will keep incrementally upgrading Garnet until it reaches Version 5.9.9 and then will "pull a Cobalt" announcing that they have cancelled DogFoodOS (ALPOS) completely. Of course, by then Microsoft, Nokia, Samsung, etc will have their own STABLE mobile OSes, obviating the need for DogFoodOS.

How about asking them if their marketing people received a comment from *Palm* that they can pass on to us since the press release went out yesterday. It's been observed that that was conspicuously missing.

Dear Palm Developer,
I'm writing to you today because I'm concerned by the number of posts I've read that suggest that Palm's support of Palm OS is either wavering or short-lived. It is neither.

I thought I had made this perfectly clear with earlier statements, but let me reiterate that our announcement on Sept. 26th that we'll broaden our line of Treo smartphones to include ones made on the Windows Mobile platform is all about growing the Treo market. We want to deliver the Palm experience on Windows Mobile, strengthen our company's ability to deliver ever-more capable solutions and answer current and potential customers' requests for a Windows Mobile-based product from Palm. This is not a zero-sum game! This market is in its infancy, and if we can expand our opportunities by being a strong cross-platform provider of world-class smartphone products, then we should do so. At the same time, this does not mean we need to walk away from our existing products or technology partnerships, like Palm OS.

It's a fact that a large majority of businesses around the world use a Microsoft-based infrastructure across their IT assets. And many of those companies simply aren't open to products that use another OS. Some of our carriers also have been asking for a Treo on this platform. Finally, many end users in the world are attracted to the familiar Windows user interface. We can either answer that marketplace demand with a Windows-based product, or we can walk away from that business.

We have a rich product roadmap of Palm OS-based handheld computers, mobile managers AND Treo smartphones that we intend to deliver. Our Palm OS customer loyalty is extremely high, and we intend to continue to earn that loyalty with great Palm OS-based products. We have sold more than 30 million Palm OS-based products over the years, and it is not our intent to walk away from such a strong and loyal user base. That's why in May we extended our license for Palm OS, giving us the right to continue to make and market Palm OS-based products until 2010.

So, I'd like to ask you to look at our Windows Mobile news as a way to expand our market opportunity. We have every intention of continuing to support our Palm OS developers and to encourage the expansion of the already rich array of consumer and enterprise applications and peripherals for Palm OS. We're pleased Access has initiated the purchase of PalmSource because we believe Access has the resources to really invest in and develop Palm OS.

Net net, I believe that developing differentiated, software-rich products on a range of industry-standard platforms puts us in a unique position with customers and carriers and helps us expand the market opportunity for us, the developer community and everyone involved in the smartphone category. I hope you will agree.

Regards,

Ed Colligan
Palm, Inc. president and CEO

P.S. While we're going to keep milking PalmOS goodwill until it's no longer profitable, we realize that we cannot realistically support two different OSes longterm. We believe that Windows Mobile is our best bet to keep Palm afloat until we can find a Sugar Daddy as gullible as Access that will purchase our company. That time is coming.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

ALP will ship to licensees, Skippy, and it'll show up on real devices, and Nokia, Moto, et al, won't have any more stable OSes than they do now when it happens.

Access brought a fat wallet, a decent browser and wide-eyed dreams of cellphoneOS riches to the table. They'll leave penniless, disgraced and with their pants hanging aroung their ankles as Bill Gater zips up his fly with a smirk on his face.

As I said before:

1) Cobalt is DEAD.
2) Access is dreaming of NetFrontLinux ("ALPOS"/DogFoodOS).
3) NetFrontLinux will arrive too late to matter (despite the DoCoMo connection).
4) Microsoft wins again.
5) Whover gets the last post here is right.

When Access/PalmSource puts the blowtorch to your a$$ for all the vicious things you've said here about them, don't come crying to me. I tried to warn you, but dumba$$es like you only learn the hard way. Go ahead, Marty: use your tongue to prove that the stove is hot. I dare you to keep blasting PalmSource here. I DARE YOU.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Ahem...and as noted elsewhere:

-- http://gigaom.com/2006/02/16/revenge-of-windows-mobile/

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7946#109479

**************************************************************************

I hear the cleaning staff gave Gassée their resignations last week. Time for my buddy Jeff Kirvin to mail the Gas-Man his resumé?

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Hello TVoR, oh how I have missed you,

Thank-you for pointing out your old "Dianne is leaving" rumor posts, so I can again show how little you know. To whit:

* I didn't even start looking around for another job until November, a month after your LAST post saying you knew I was leaving. In fact I was not even thinking about leaving until after you made that post.

* I had no plan to leave PalmSource in December. I was on sabbatical in December, but didn't make that plan until after your last post of this "rumor". My last day at PalmSource was in January, and I didn't resign until early January.

* I interviewed at -Sun-?!? Are you frickin crazy? That is the most insulting thing you have said to me yet.

Plus, you forgot to include links to your other one or two posts -before- these also about my imminent departure from PalmSource. So all we have learned here is: yes, if you keep saying that a person is going to leave their current job, why, you may one day be right.

You truly are hooked in to the inner life of PalmSource. But don't worry, I think they have a pill for that or something.

Oh and I am really so hurt from you posting yet more links to the SM material on my web site. Gosh darn you, Voice of Reason, I didn't want anyone to actually see that stuff I put up on the web! Now where will I put all of my most private inner thoughts? Maybe I should start a LiveJournal??

You seem so titillated by it, though, that I can only assume that the continual virtual whippings you receive on PalmInfoCenter aren't enough for you. I know some good pro dommes if you need another outlet for yourself. Spending a little cash for a real floggging would probably do you wonders.

See ya!

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Oho, bated breath. "Like sands through the hourglass..."

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Free Tibet! Free Cobalt! Free Mike Cane!
Can't you hear the VOICES shouting in unison? ;-)

;-) ;-) ;-)

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

I know that a pixel-perfect Garnet COULD be replicated with few issues. I was primarily questioning the lack of ANY additional options such as pertaining to fonts etc. Or even an icon for one-touch beaming etc. I was sort of of hoping that Memos would evolve into a poor man's word processor/e-book reader much in the way that Media should evolve into a jack of all trades (mp3 player include) image/media viewing app.

Of course, all of this is VERY early (assuming it's real at all). Also, and this worried me from the moment I saw those pics, why aren't "Done" and "Details" at the very bottom of the screen? Does that screen look like a tiny 320*480 screen to you?

I was also HIGHLY disappointed to see the words "Graffiti 2" mentioned there...which brings me to your point about the lack of a touchscreen. What good is any stylus-based character input system (G1, G2, jot or otherwise) if the keypad is the primary means of data entry? Those screen shots just look like a whited-out DIA of a Garnet app runnning in 320*320 mode to me!

Ever since the days of typing in endless passwords of upper & lower case characters to continue my progress in Metroid on the NES I've wondered why no one has tried to come up with a really intuitive one-handed/d-pad based GUI or form of onscreen keyboard. Pperhaps this will be the first one of its kind!?! And no, I don't consider RIM's thumbwheel/jogwheel click-scroll-click efficient. Intuitive, yes. Efficient, no.

Wasn't Ryan promising an interview/Q&A session today and not just pics?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

yes - a rough translation is: "my fishing tackle is in the kitchen."

I am working on my article for today, but I still am waiting for official screenshots. I'm surprised no one has published anything on the live demo that they did in Barcelona.

-Ryan

I would be very surprised if they bought Palm, as Palm has nothing to offfer them, other than US distribution channels.

May You Live in Interesting Times

How 'bout the following:

1. Carrier agreements (always a biggie--especially for a Chinese firm!)

2. NAME recognition. Actually....TWO 'brands' to offer--"Palm" + "Treo". Look at the hoopla still ongoing over Lenovo being able to use the IBM label on their products for another, what, 4 years? Look at how Atari continues to come back from the grave..that name & that logo still hold some clout. Same goes for the legions of walking dead CE brands--Philco, Sylvania, Fisher, Westinghouse, Xerox, Zenith etc etc etc.

3. While the first two are nearly priceless (EASILY worth a combined $31 million *wink*), in addtion to the US distribution channels you mention there's still some pretty good momentum going in Europe as well as the everpresent possibility of resurrecting the conventional PDA formfactor and/or a larger tablet FF for emerging markets.

If nothing else, wouldn't a full-fledged Asian acquisition of the Palms make for some good gossip? Again, in NO particular order, I offer the following suitors to gobble up Palm:

1. LG
2. Matsushita
3. Cisco
4. Haier

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

(I didn't know you could read Chinese, david ;)

May You Live in Interesting Times

It's simplified Chinese. At least it is by the time I'm through with it ;-)

The PalmSource intelligence handset new strength does - uses Linux OS Haire first section intelligent handset N60

2005-7-28

Time under each big media spotlight, raises the head in the multitudinous intelligent handset amateur waits for, Haire the N60 ---- traveling cutting edge officially went on the market.

After Haire N60 is continues Tristar I539, PalmSource in a Chinese market strength does. This product is - moves the soft science and technology by the PalmSource subsidiary company (Nanjing) the limited company and Qingdao Haire corresponds first section which the limited company collaborates to promote to use Linux the operating system the Haire brand intelligence handset.

Moves the soft science and technology is the Chinese market most early is engaged in inserts the type Linux operating system research and development the merchant. Establishes for four years, continuously concentrates to inserts the type Linux operating system and the handset essential software research and development. It promotes slightly based on the Linux operating system intelligent handset solution by the essence, the electric quantity province, the speed quick, the probability strong, the skeleton clear, is easy to expand, the contact surface in a friendly way is practical and so on the characteristic 独领风骚 in the profession.

At present, moves the soft science and technology to rely on the solid software foundation of basic skills and the rich product experience, takes root China, takes a broad view the world, depends on its several hundred person of specialized handsets software research and development team and the nimble highly effective management strategy, provides the best software product and the globalization high-quality service for its huge and the fine customer community. Especially its mature stable intelligent handset solution fused massively complied with the market demand shocked the function, Guang Shou welcome in the profession. This plan enables the handset product not only to realize Gao Qing to travel the photography, the television broadcast (TV-Out), the music appreciation, the picture, the large capacity data storage, the PDA commerce assistant, the relaxed hand-written input, but also may through unique the installation procedure to carry on the handset function the unlimited extent.

2004 year's end, moved the soft science and technology to realize and the international intelligent handset operating system leader PalmSource merge. After this Haire N60 goes on the market also is the merge makes with joint forces the first new strength does. Moves soft technical and the PalmSource merge, gave moved the soft technical Linux intelligence handset software plan steadier operation platform and the broader application market. Current promotes the intelligent handset software plan relies on approaches the perfect system skeleton, the pleasant contact surface design, the relaxed joyful operation flow and the nimble practical design thought is obtaining the more and more many industry in colleagues' favour and the esteem.

Without a doubt, moved the soft science and technology fully to cast in Haire N60 moved the soft technical tired product year deep to insert the type Linux research and development experience, has received the PalmSource more than 10 years profession great software design thought, caused the buyer to be allowed personal to experience PalmSource to take the world-class software company everybody style. In addition, PalmSource 内推 will go against the level edition in 06 years in the global scope based on the Linux essence next generation intelligence handset operating system, but just promoted Haire N60 will be precisely PalmSource in Linux direction work cornerstone.

As the world well-known electron merchant Haire group, regarding extremely satisfies with PalmSource this cooperation. The Haire aspect indicated that, for promoted the Haire handset with the PalmSource cooperation the market competition strength to provide a convenient channel, Haire N60 the Linux intelligence handset, has manifested the future handset intellectualization and the entertainment fusion tendency, will certainly to receive the market the warm welcome.

We wish in advance the PalmSource China subsidiary company - to move the soft science and technology (Nanjing) the limited company in the Chinese handset market good news again and again. Was anticipating its can promote more sides with the more partner to have the competitive ability the high-quality goods handset.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

the "Haire brand intelligence handset " is almost as bad as this Chinese Restaurant's name:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3005/1029/1600/poon.jpg

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

it said

"OTIS SPUNKMEYER...Gotta Have it!"

and showed a picture of some young boy with his arm wrapped around a cookie. Very disturbing. Reminded me of Maxim Magazine's "Found Porn" section when readers send in pics of everyday products/advertising with hidden unintentional porn. HKK - you should submit that Poon.

http://www.spunkmeyer.com/

http://www.maximonline.com/

http://tinyurl.com/b4ymp

If StyleTap Platform can get some conduits working, it would suggest the Palm PIM apps could run as regular prc within DogFoodOS' PalmOS Emulator. Of course, if Access wants a truly modular mobile OS that can easily be stripped down to run MAX without PalmOS if a carier requests this, they need MAX-native PIM apps. I would be shocked if all of the PIM apps, browser, email app and any other core apps (SMS, etc) are not MAX-native. Access is not dumb enough to consider running PalmOS as being anything other than a nice "bonus" that is not crucial to the functionality of devices running DogFoodOS.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Access needs the PIM apps to be what NetFront is to browsers: the best of breed.

Date Book/Calendar needs to offer the power of DateBk5 and Pocket Informant, but should have the option of EASILY switching back to the simplified "Classic" PalmOS PIM interface. There should be a single button to cycle between "Classic" and "Advanced".

Memo needs to offer encryption, sorting by date created, etc. The ability to quickly send an individual memo to another app (e.g. email app) would be appreciated.

Address needs to offer photos, arranging by photos, photo-dialling, complete mapping to all Outlook fields, more custom fields, etc. Presumably this should be easy to do with the new database structure.

To Do needs to offer the features of HandyShopper, the ability to link photos to items, etc.

In fact, all of the PIM apps should support the linking of photos, voice memos, videos and other files to entries the way that CLIE Organizer pioneered. A large, customisable database of hi res icons that can be used by the PIM is also needed. Antoine (twizza) was right when he advocated for the development of a mobile version of an application like Microsoft's OneNote. With the improved searching abilities afforded by the new database structure this would make even more sense and could revolutionize how people use their devices.

Access has the opportunity to create an OS that has the benefit of taking lessons learned over the past 15 years and otimizing the User Interface to create an ideal mobile device. I hope they don't waste this opportunity to take mobile computing to the next level.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Sounds like Dynamic Menu, only that's in its own seperate screen, ala` Today on WinMob.

Ditto what you said about the Media app, too. Palm are going to have to rebuild it for whatever their next OS is anyways (assuming it's not WinMob) so they might as well make it *really* handle all types of media while they're at it.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Which begs the question, why the lack of fanfare? It's all the more puzzling since Nokia's neither Microsoft nor PalmSource have a real-time mobile offering at the moment.

Jeez. that's almost incoherent enough to be Skippy's writing.

Moving from dual core to single core is not an argument against using the Linux kernel, and the various embedded Linux players are well aware of TI's transitional plans.

There are fairly straightforward hacks one can do to make this transition, or, as Symbian has apparently done, you can use it as an opportunity to rework your system.

May You Live in Interesting Times