Comments on: Open Thread: Post Pre Launch User Reports

Post Pre Launch TalkDiscussion: With the Pre's launch day now finally upon us, we'd like to hear how you made out. Did you brave the cold night on a sidewalk, find long lines or simply walk right into a store at 8 am? Let us know what the scene like in your neck of the woods. What was the stock situation like? Were there a lot of folks out for the Pre?

If you were among the lucky ones that picked one up, post and share your thoughts on the device so far in the comments below.

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b0rker @ 6/6/2009 7:17:18 AM # Q
DC's M Street store had a line forming when I arrived at ~7ish.. but started really forming as the doors were opening. Their stock is plenty someone said an employee said they had plenty for a line around the block.. There was a palm guy there and some paparazzi that was taking photos of people using it.

All and all it was a rather normal experience.. no one went crazy or fought. they let several people in at a time and when I walked back by around 9-930 the line was down to 5 or so people. So I'm sure the store has plenty to go around after the line goes away.

I'm pretty impressed so far with the interface, once I get contacts into the phone and start using it for work, msg'ing and the like.. I'm sure it'll be a very much needed upgrade to the 755p.

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Palo Alto

FlaSheridn @ 6/6/2009 10:43:07 AM # Q
My wife and I managed to get into the Palo Alto Sprint store last night around midnight. I'm a former Palm employee, so I'll spare you my subjective reaction, but the AppStore worked well enough for me to download Classic and the Twitter client Tweed. I didn't have a way to transfer PalmOS apps to Classic, but Tweed worked well enough for me to post a few Tweets from the store.
RE: Palo Alto
mikecane @ 6/6/2009 11:13:15 AM # Q
How much is Classic and Tweed?

Ryan, we need some reviewing of Tweed, with piccies!

RE: Palo Alto
Ryan @ 6/6/2009 11:32:59 AM # Q
All of the apps currently in the store are free. Classic comes with a 7-day trial, but I'm not certain what they are charging for it yet.

Mike, I had to return my Pre loaner already, Palm only let me keep it for 7 days. You can find some tweed info here:

RE: Palo Alto
mikecane @ 6/6/2009 2:53:27 PM # Q
Saw vid of Tweed and Spaz at another site. Thanks for head's up.

I'm not sure either one is doing Twitter correctly, tho. Having to call up another screen to enter a Tweet seems like friction.

RE: Palo Alto waiting list
FlaSheridn @ 6/6/2009 2:54:17 PM # Q
The Palo Alto now has a waiting list; supposedly you might be able to get one today. There were half-a-dozen people on the line to try the two demo units.

RE: Palo Alto
whiteasianrose @ 6/6/2009 2:59:25 PM # Q
classic is going to be $30 after the 7 day trial
tweed is free

also for some reason you can't ad flights to follow on the flight app

RE: Palo Alto
mikecane @ 6/6/2009 4:19:10 PM # Q
$30.00 seems like a reasonable price to preserve Garnet PIM data!
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Blows the iPhone out of the Water!!!

ScottG @ 6/6/2009 10:44:50 AM # Q
First I have the iPhone and I am an application developer for the iPhone as this has made me very wealthy in a rather short time. I'm going to base it off my experience of over a year on the iPhone now to the Palm Pre.

Now let me address the Mob at the local Sprint Store in Marlton, NJ on Route 73. I walked right into the store, added my name to the list then sat down on a nice cushion chair. I waited 28 minutes to be called up, and I'm thinking that a Sprint Customer as I am with a Family Plan of 4 Phones, all Palm versions probably got a push to the front of the list a little faster then a non Sprint customer. I don't know if this was the case or not, but when talking to some others that had been there since 8am for over 2 hours, and I walk right in and get called in under 30 minutes is very nice.

Much to my surprise I got a very nice deal with the family plan I had already. My concern was what i read on having to get the unlimited plan for all phones which would have made my monthly payments got from $180.00 to $429.00, which was the deal you get online in the pricing page. NONE of this was the case at all, in fact my Minutes for the Shared Plan of 1400 went up to 1500 minutes a month, and my Bill went down $10.00!!! Now that's a real Deal. Phone cost me $300.00 plus some other accessories I wanted. I get a Cash Rebate of $100.00 in the Mail.

Now on to the Phone, well all i can say is WOW!!! SUPER WOW!!! First the coolest thing is how as I'm a Mac User and this connected right up to my Mac Mail, showing all the sub folders I have setup just as i was sitting on the Mac using the mail App. The setup was quick, and all i had to do was enter my Email and Password, none of the SMTP stuff you always had to do in the past with ports and SSL's. Just a real nice way to pull this off on Palm's end. The Web Browser is STELLAR! FAST! and I'm seeing 3x the speed for sites to come up verse the iPhone with both having a clean cache so nothing is stored to increase the Web Page Pull Up. The Service it surprisingly fast on their network compared to the Treo 700P I was using prior to this upgrade.

I've got a lot of playing to do, and learning new stuff now too. I will update soon this write up as i have more time to play.


RE: Blows the iPhone out of the Water!!!
gmayhak @ 6/6/2009 11:08:58 AM # Q
Scott, how about a link to your iPhone apps?

Tech Center Labs

Reply to this comment

Lower Manhattan

mikecane @ 6/6/2009 11:11:27 AM # Q
Small Sprint Store, lower Manhattan:

Seven people at 7AM, doors open at 8AM.

When I next passed by at 10AM, fifteen new people on line.

Inside, I saw two live Pres people were molesting while waiting their turn to buy.

I would have had to wait on line to fondle a Pre. Eh, I can do that anytime in the next week.

I don't know how many Sprint Stores there are in Manhattan. This was a small store on Broadway near J&R/Wall Street. Two AT&T Stores in that area had larger lines for the iPhone - but remember, sales for that started at *6PM* (IIRC), not 8AM.

On Twitter, someone in Denver reported it and surroundings are already sold out (as of about noon EDST).

I think people didn't line up because of the pre-press about possible shortages. Only the maniacs did. If I eventually do decide to get one (prove you're a NEW Palm, Palm!), I can do so when stocks are replenished. And also *after* Palm has fixed that craptastic camera. (Really, that camera is a frikkin disgrace compared to the iPhone. I hope what's wrong is in software and not in the hardware optics!)

RE: Lower Manhattan
SeldomVisitor @ 6/6/2009 11:14:38 AM # Q
You may want to wait til they fix all the hardware problems - see TreoCentral's Pre forum for those (nee dead pixels, heat, light leaks, loose keyboards, etc).

RE: Lower Manhattan
mikecane @ 6/6/2009 11:29:17 AM # Q
So, is it still VAPORWARE, you eejit?
RE: Lower Manhattan
jca666us @ 6/6/2009 12:04:41 PM # M Q
if you read the article about designing the pre - palm knocked it out in 15 mos - as opposed to the typical 18 mos.

considering the hardware and software glitches - palm would have been well served to work on it an addl. 3 months.

I played around with webos earlier at a sprint store - definitely the best thing about the pre - the hardware definitely has a cheap feel to it.

the os is definitely less stable than the iPhone was at launch.

RE: Lower Manhattan
freakout @ 6/6/2009 4:08:03 PM # Q
So, is it still VAPORWARE, you eejit?

Hey, good question! I want to know too. SV??

RE: Lower Manhattan
mikecane @ 6/6/2009 4:19:54 PM # Q
And now that the Pre is out, shouldn't SV be out too - as in OUT OF HERE?
RE: Lower Manhattan
twrock @ 6/6/2009 4:42:53 PM # Q
mikecane wrote:
And now that the Pre is out, shouldn't SV be out too - as in OUT OF HERE?

Why? Nothing's changed.

He still doesn't use a Palm, hates anything Palm, and has no intention of ever getting anything from Palm. There's still plenty of FUD to make up about Palm and it's products. All he has to do is wait for Palm to announce their next product and he can once again have another product to denigrate by calling it vaporware (ignorantly so, but he'll do it anyway) and pointing out each and every potential flaw he can come up with (whether partially real or completely imagined).

No, no, no. He's staying. Nothing's changed.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

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DarthRepublican @ 6/6/2009 11:13:14 AM # Q
I didn't actually buy a Pre but I did stop by a downtown Sprint store to check it out. They had about 32 Pres for sale and about that many people lined up to buy them and people were still arriving when I left. Sadly, the demo units were kind of flaky. But the sales staff was friendly and helpful to the people who were ready to buy making sure that their phones worked before they left the store.

It's hard to make a real assessment from the demo when they tell you that its software is older and flaky compared to that of the retail units. That seemed counterintuitive to me. Why take a chance on losing a potential customer by letting them play with a buggy demo unit?

Anyway, here's a shameless bit of self-promotion for my blog where I've posted a full "fondle report."
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1

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Pre, pre

rodent @ 6/6/2009 11:49:39 AM # Q
I will be waiting at VERIZON for my PRE...BUT I'll live my life till then.
RE: Pre, pre
Sweet Casey @ 6/6/2009 12:11:13 PM # Q
After unsuccessfully waiting on my company discount Sprint program to get me a Pre at midnight, I went to a mall Sprint store in Pittsburgh (South Hills) at 10 am. No line, plenty of Pres in stock, got mine right away. Well worth the wait. Sweet screen, fast loading, great wifi, great everything. I love it!
Reply to this comment

I tried

blackstrat @ 6/6/2009 12:41:47 PM # M Q
I started in Gary Indiana... in Madison Wi. There was a line of about 20 at 0600. I wasn't able to locate a Best Buy or a Sprint store I could get into until I made it to damn near St Cloud Mn. Needless to say they were all out... However he had one for me to play with... Sorry to say the little bit of time I had with it didn't impress me at all. The keyboard is about half the size of the 755... I have a hard enough time with this and my fat thumbs... I may end up going to a BB Curve
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Happy so far, but...

ackthbbft @ 6/6/2009 12:44:57 PM # Q
I was first in line today, arrived around 4:30am, and it did not take long for more people to show up. Despite being first, a couple other people got finished before me due to a bad workstation my Sprint rep had.

In the end, I picked up the phone, a Touchstone, the leather case (the plastic holster was tempting, but looked like it could break easily), and a car charger.

One very interesting thing about the Touchstone, since it gets power through the USB cable already included with the phone, and the car charger uses the same micro-USB connector, it would be conceivable to use a Touchstone in your car, and never have to remove the reportedly easily-breakable USB port cover (except when used in USB drive mode, of course). Unfortunately, the USB car charger they sold has a plug that won't fit into the Touchstone's receptacle. Since the car charger does not appear to be an official Palm-manufactured accessory, however, this is not surprising.

The device itself appears to have one bad pixel on it (grrrr), and some discoloration in the LCD on the upper right (tinted slightly yellow), and across the bottom (darker blotchiness, but only really visible on certain screens where the image is already fairly dark). I wonder if the spots of discoloration are due to the Touchstone battery cover's magnets (I'll have to swap the cover back again to check).

The device itself seems to work fine, though. I still have the plastic cover on the screen, and it still responds to touches. I'm sure dust and grit will get under it, but it should last until someone comes out with a scratch protector (heck, I should check Boxwave now to see if they already have one).

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LiveFaith @ 6/6/2009 1:53:30 PM # M Q
Dropped by the Chattanooga (Hamilton Place) store the afternoon. This was a ''official reseller'' store.

Dude said they got only 10 Pres and they were all pre-ordered (no pun intended) in the pat two weeks. No posters or anything in store.

He said he could put me on a waiting list. Also, he said the BB a block down had 220 and they were gone in 1.5 hrs. Every store in Chattanooga out according 2 him.

If anywhere near true, Palm / Sprint really botched this one. I wasn't planning on buying, and it still feels like a slap in the face. How many with money to waste were turned away today?

Pre: Revolutionary but not easier to use than Centro
JEMShoe @ 6/6/2009 2:16:25 PM # Q
My experience at the store was nice. At 12:30p, no line, two minutes to a young pretty saleswoman.

However my overall experience has not been good.

1) I called Sprint and they told me my existing plan would work on the palm pre (I had unlimited Vision data/text and 750 voice). However, I had to get a new plan for $27 more for 300 less minutes (or $47 for 150 minutes more).

So moral is, if you are a Sprint customer now, more than likely you will need a more expensive plan. People migrating from other carriers will most likely save money.

2) I have found that I really don't like the Pre as much as my Centro. Even though some of the features are nicer, the centro is easier to perform one-handed tasks. It is almost better to just leave the keypad extended on the Pre. How do you pick a contact without extending the keyboard (which takes two hands...which means can't do it driving for sure).

3)Also everything does not migrate over (my texting chats for example).

4) To my knowledge there still isn't a stock voice dialing app. No LED and the charging port is hard to access (or for $70 you can inductively charge). No lanyard loop. Speaker is weak.

5) Available apps are few.

Overall it is more money and less satisfaction for me. I did not like iPhone and I just bought an iPhone-like phone with a keyboard.

RE: Chattanooga
rcartwright @ 6/7/2009 12:10:48 AM # Q

Are there 2 Sprint stores at Hamilton Place? I went there about 5 pm there was a lot of Pre adverts in the store. I got about 40 minutes with it and was pretty impressed. Interesting to note the mini USB plug cover was flat gone on the unit I tried. My company has a pretty good discount with Sprint and I may get one in a couple of weeks, provided a ereader app that supports mobipocket apppears and Pocket tunes is supported.
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Chattanooga
LiveFaith @ 6/7/2009 7:01:29 AM # M Q
As I was leaving on I-75, I saw the big store (factory) in the mall area near Belk. That's prob the better store. I stopped at the one out by the Shallowford entrance.
Next time I'm up, I'll check out the demo at the other..
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No user report from me... I'm waiting!

CADJedi @ 6/6/2009 2:55:22 PM # Q

No user report from me... I'm waiting. I did want to go to a local store just to fondle one but I live in a rural area and none of the local stores had one yet.

Even if I could have looked one over, I'm still waiting. I absolutely need...

1. to have it work on Verizon. Sprint is not an option for me.

2. to have SD card support. I have many gigabytes of audio files and Word documents that I keep on my device at all times. No SD = me no buy.

3. to be able to sync to the Desktop. I don't use "the Cloud" and frankly never will. I sit at a desk all day and enter data, notes, contacts, and appointments... I NEED to sync my desktop to my Palm device, period. No sync = me no buy

RE: No user report from me... I'm waiting!
mikecane @ 6/6/2009 4:21:13 PM # Q
I'd be surprised if it ever gets SD (or other card) support.
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Working great!

solarview @ 6/6/2009 4:24:29 PM # Q
Purchased opening day at a Sprint store along with touchstone and car chargers with no problems. Showed up at opening time and had minimal wait. Configured bluetooth headset, transfered Outlook data via USB cable, and all is working great! Considering setting up with current hotmail rather than a new gmail account now that hotmail allows POP access. Screen preferences didn't show up in application launcher, but was located by searching for "screen." This one was for my wife. I'll be purchasing as soon as it comes out on Verizon. Hopefully by then they add video recording and full Outlook sync capabilities. Love Palm and based on this product it looks like they will be around for a long time.
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alanh @ 6/6/2009 5:21:53 PM # M Q
I dropped by a Sprint store in Durham. They had 25 in stock, and only 18 folks in "line."

I got one but didn't port my number yet to check on service quality. It's very nice so far with a few minor issues. I'm coming from a Treo 755p and my wife uses (and loves) an iPhone.

The digitizer isn't as smart/accurate as the iphone's and the scrolling resizing doesn't work quite as well. I preferred the keyboard on the treo, and sometimes the gestures don't register very well. I don't know if that's software or hardware.

Overall, It's very nice so far. The multiple cards has already been useful and is way more convenient and faster than app switching on either the treo or iphone.

The form factor is great. It's way smaller than the Treo. Despite the the added thickness vs the iPhone, it feels much smaller.

Jury is still out on battery life, and my work doesn't have an exchange server, so I'm not sure about PIM data will work for me. I've downloaded Classic but haven't tried it yet.


SeldomVisitor @ 6/6/2009 5:39:30 PM # Q
How's the ringer volume?

How's the speakerphone?

What do you think of the edge around the keyboard?

What do you think about the keyboard/main body connection?

Have you noticed blotches at the bottom of the display?

Have you noticed intermittent stuttering of the animations of the device.

Has your phone locked up? Have you viewed PDFs yet?

How hot does your Pre get?

freakout @ 6/6/2009 5:54:34 PM # Q
What does it matter, Seldom? The Pre is vaporware, remember!!
alanh @ 6/6/2009 8:02:43 PM # M Q
SV: I recognize your complaints. Overall, it's still much better than my Treo, and has some distinct advantages over the iPhone. It has locked up once and rebooted once. It is not perfect, but it looks very promising.
SeldomVisitor @ 6/7/2009 5:01:42 AM # Q
Thanks for the response. Mine were not complaints but real questions based off of OTHERS complaints to a poster on a forum where I expect, as you did, real answers rather than gushing Fanboy evasiveness. Very appreciated.

[we KNOW what's =good= about the Pre. We KNOW what's been gushed for 6 months about the Pre. Now it's time to KNOW what's not so good about the Pre so REAL comparisons - and all that go along with THAT - can be made between the Pre and the myriad NEW devices just out and coming out - maybe even tomorrow]


Aside to the poster-bashers - a device is vaporware until it is not. After it is not it is not. Thus your literally-stupid poster-bashing is beyond DUHmb. Enjoy.

okay sv, i'll play your game
whiteasianrose @ 6/7/2009 5:03:20 AM # Q
How's the ringer volume? it is loud enough, especially when you turn it all the way up

How's the speakerphone? speakerphone woks great

What do you think of the edge around the keyboard? the edge around the keyboard isn't an issue at all. when you type, hold, open and close the phone, there is no bother. designed very well.

What do you think about the keyboard/main body connection? the connection is fine for me. there is a "very" slight give left to right if you push it that way but again, nothing serious.

Have you noticed blotches at the bottom of the display? nope. crystal clear:)

Have you noticed intermittent stuttering of the animations of the device. every now and then, when opening a lot of data heavy programs it will stutter slightly. but hey, i stutter from time to time too haha

Has your phone locked up? Have you viewed PDFs yet? locked up? nope!

How hot does your Pre get? hot? not at all. haven't used the touchstone yet though so can't comment on that part.

twrock @ 6/7/2009 7:36:59 AM # Q
Yeah? Well, whiteasianrose, your assessment doesn't count anyway. It's too positive to be meaningful. You're probably just a Palm fanboy.

What we are looking for here is people who don't like their Pre's and have found lots of problems. Now those are people who really know what they are talking about. You? Not so much.


Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

twrock @ 6/7/2009 7:51:44 AM # Q
SeldomVisitor wrote:
Mine were not complaints....


...a device is vaporware until it is not.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Inigo Montoya

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Updated WebOS already...
twrock @ 6/7/2009 8:05:15 AM # Q
Well, so much for all the bashing that said Palm wouldn't release updates quickly.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
Updated WebOS already...
alanh @ 6/7/2009 8:11:21 AM # M Q
By the way, I ran the Update program last night just to see what it looked like. When I ran it, it told me there was a WebOS update 1.02 available at 67MB. (according to device info I was at 1.01.) It told me that it would dowload this when idle on high speed connections, or I could force it to download/install now. I chose to force and it loaded in a few minutes over EVDO. It wouldn't install as my battery was below 30%.

I plugged in and left the phone for a while to charge and when I came back it was installed.

SeldomVisitor @ 6/7/2009 8:17:14 AM # Q
Might want to use the keystroke that forces the Pre browser to really reload a page...

alanh @ 6/7/2009 8:56:23 AM # M Q
Whoops: sorry about that. Admins: can you remove my duplicate postings?

Thx, a

jca666us @ 6/7/2009 11:03:41 AM # Q
Hey twrock,

I'm impressed that palm released the 1.02 update so quickly - still let's see their track record with updates three or four months from now.

Palm hasn't had the best record with firmware updates.

twrock @ 6/7/2009 8:25:33 PM # Q
Alas, nothing is ever good enough.......

(Well, unless it's Apple.)

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

mikecane @ 6/8/2009 7:22:56 AM # Q
Hey, tw, you won't buy an iPhone because you want a keyboard and want gloves in winter.

No one says Apple is the best. But right now it is (just as Nokia once was best - because, like Apple and now, its competitors were such crap).

Given the dominance of the iPhone, the iPhone is the new Borg.

twrock @ 6/8/2009 9:48:13 PM # Q
Mike, I think you are remembering someone else. I've never wanted a keyboard on my device. The iPhone is great in that respect. I do want a device that has very good handwriting recognition, so I'm unsure if writing with a finger is accurate enough (vs. a stylus). And I don't even have to wear gloves in the dead of winter where I live. Although I do think it is disadvantageous to have to have skin contact. I really do like styli, and I really don't like smudged up screens.

I suspect I was goading someone if I made comments that implied I was concerned about having to take my gloves off to use the iPhone. (What? Me goad someone? Really?)

If the iPhone wasn't "locked up" Apple style, and if I didn't have to sign up for such astronomical monthly fees to get one at a reasonable price, I'd own one already. It is a very good phone.

And Mike, how can you possible say "no one says Apple is the best?" The web is full of people who say exactly that. Do you not see them?

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

mikecane @ 6/10/2009 6:24:04 AM # Q
If PIC was able to pull up search results like Google (no, don't tell me to use Google!), I'd find your posts from a year or so ago with mention of gloves and things. Lucky I am so lazy.

Only the blind fanboiz go on about Apple.

And have you looked at Android? That HTC Magic looks interesting. And now there's the Android Scripting Environment too.

Semi-OT: RE: NC
SeldomVisitor @ 6/10/2009 6:26:24 AM # Q
> If PIC was able to pull up search results like Google...

I'd just like to search for, say, "all posts by N with word X" in them and get a return of links to those posts.

twrock @ 6/10/2009 6:40:56 AM # Q
Yeah, I've yanked a lot of chains in my day. :-)

Look at the "OH GEKKO!!" thread for my thoughts on Android devices.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

twrock @ 6/10/2009 6:42:50 AM # Q
LOL. Don't worry Mike. SV's all over it.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
twrock @ 6/10/2009 7:11:00 AM # Q
I found it Mike! I found it!
Maybe I was talking about the thick leather gloves I have to wear when I'm welding. :-)
(But yeah, in context, I think it's pretty clear I was joking about what a trivial issue the whole thing is; the whole "I'll cut the finger tip off all my gloves, cause my momma didn't raise any dumbies" line was supposed to be a clue.)

Hey, I did see an article a few weeks back about a new, thinner touchscreen technology that's supposed to work with "whatever" you touch it with. Slap that on top of an OLED screen and even VampireLestat will be happy!

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

Reply to this comment

Spokane, WA

mapenn @ 6/6/2009 6:46:43 PM # Q
I'm visiting inlaws in Spokane Valley, Washington. My first stop was Best Buy at 10am opening. Unfortunately, we discovered that this Best Buy did not carry Sprint. So me and about 4 others headed a few blocks over to the Sprint Retail Store.

Busy but no lines. They had plenty of Pre's in stock. I was assisted immediately. Got the 'dog and pony show' and made my purchase.

Reply to this comment

Atlanta, GA

Scotland @ 6/6/2009 10:40:01 PM # Q
Showed up at my nearby corporate store right at 8am - the doors were open and there were about 30-40 customers in the store and probably about a dozen employees. The service was good and the process well-managed - they took my name and told me I'd have a 20 minute wait to see a rep. I played with a demo model while waiting.

The store had plenty of Pres for the early birds. They called my name, introduced me to the rep, and I got mine and was home by 8:50am. Didn't really play with it for a while due to the number porting (from ATT) having a few hour lag.

My thoughts confirm some of the reviews I've seen. Overall, the phone is amazing. It has some kinks to be worked out here and there but is quite impressive and well done for a 1.0 product. The screen is fantastic (no leaking on my unit), the keyboard is fine, the sliders opens and closes with a satisfying spring-loaded click (not sure what HW some reviewers who disliked the slider used, but mine works great) and the complaints some reviewers made about sharp edges seem completely overblown to me.

After using Treos for years, getting used to the new gesture/touch metaphor is a change but quickly starts to be intuitive and easy (reminds me of how fast I got acclimated to my original Treo). The device and OS have a lot of power (love the multitasking!!) - one reviewer said they had a wow moment where they thought to themselves how they were really holding a small computer instead of a phone and recalled thinking the same way with the original Treos - that is definitely the case. This is the device Palm fans have been asking for during the past several years - it has a full size screen, keyboard, 3G, Wi-Fi, a powerful processor, and next-gen OS.

OK - now for the downsides - the App Store only has a few apps and actually locked up the Pre (I had to do a reset). Classic locked up the Pre also. It seems like both need a bit more work (definitely got a bit of a beta feel). All other apps seem solid.

I think I also understand some reviewers' disappointment on the HW feeling cheap. Overall, the HW is great IMHO but there are a few disappointing corners cut - namely, the buttons and the USB cover feel cheap for an otherwise thoughtfully designed device.

Finally, under load, the phone gets hot in a relatively small section in the back case. This isn't causing me any great grief but was a bit of a surprise.

Overall, an amazingly solid effort. The Pre and WebOS have a few rough edges here and there but the pros by far outweigh the cons and the platform has lots of room for growth. It is a ground-breaking phone and an order of magnitude upgrade in my opinion over the Treos. We'll see how Palm and Sprint manage their continued rollout in upcoming weeks and we'll also see what new iPhones and Blackberries bring, but Palm is definitely back in the game.

RE: Atlanta, GA
jca666us @ 6/7/2009 3:22:04 PM # Q
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Bugs and issues I've found....

alanh @ 6/7/2009 10:00:06 AM # Q
Mostly in the web browser....

1. PDF links download, but rather than downloading and launching the PDF viewer, it says it can't find an application to view it. Once I actually got it to download, and when I went into the PDF viewer manually, it was there and I was able to read it.

2. There doesn't seem to be a way to scroll a multi-line textarea where the text exceeds the height of the area.

3. Going forward/back in the history causes it to re-post a form, sometimes with embarrassing consequences (see above)....

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I didn't buy the Pre this weekend, but I decided to!

bhartman34 @ 6/7/2009 10:38:40 AM # Q
Hi, Everyone.

I ended up across the street from a Sprint store last night, at a Verizon store, looking at phones w/ my girlfriend (who is on Verizon, with the rest of her family). I was actually torn between the Pre and the BlackBerry Storm, which I'd used for a few minutes when my stepmother let me look at hers.

Unfortunately (and as someone on here had told me, actually), the Storm is better in concept than execution. I could never tell whether I was supposed to press or just touch an icon or interface element, and when I did have to press the screen, the surface felt too stiff - more effort to press than a regular keyboard, and certainly more than a touchscreen.

So it looks like the visit to the Verizon store pushed me to Sprint. :)

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Micro-fondle demo disaster!

mikecane @ 6/7/2009 11:48:00 AM # Q
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wilmsoft @ 6/7/2009 12:27:52 PM # Q
Got to the store about 5:30am and was the 1st there til about 6. We had about 25/30 people in line.

I have to say the interface is AWESOME but, the phone is so 'version one' that there are a LOT of missing details. I thought about returning it and wait til they finished the product.

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mikecane @ 6/7/2009 1:35:47 PM # Q
So did Gekko buy one? Really want to know his reactions to it!

Come back here, you rich pig and oink at us!

freakout @ 6/7/2009 2:43:49 PM # Q
I think he may be lost to us forever. Too busy with his sleeves rolled up bug-hunting in the Precentral forums right now:

I for one am trying to avoid the place, lest it make me sick with envy!

mikecane @ 6/7/2009 3:15:45 PM # Q
Link does not work. Try specific post. Did he do a "I bought a Pre!!!!!" post?
freakout @ 6/7/2009 3:22:53 PM # Q

You can stalk his posting history there. Rates the Pre an 8.5. Seems to be having problems with his wall charger. Poor bugger. I'd almost feel sorry for him... if he didn't have a damn Pre.

mikecane @ 6/7/2009 5:21:49 PM # Q
Apparently these links are FAIL for people who DON'T have accts there.
hkklife @ 6/7/2009 8:41:56 PM # Q
Gekko told me a while back that he'd pretty much made up his mind months ago to get a Pre and replace his Centro with it. I tried to warn him of the usual Palm early adopter pain but he didn't listen.

Mike, do you have your Pre yet?

I gave one a thorough fondling yesterday and am stunned at the plasticky cheapness of it. That's a phone I DO NOT forsee lasting for the duration of most users' 2yr contracts. The area around the headphone jack & ring/vibrate switch and the microUSB ports seemed especially flimsy. Positively, the screen looks just as vibrant here as it did at CES (though I'd love to have another half-inch of screen space!) and the slider feels infinitely better than the Zire 71's or the T|T series from a few years back.

Really, the Pre's keyboard is nowhere NEAR as bad as some had made it out to be. I'd rank it similarly to the Treo Pro's but with slightly better tactile feedback and of course the nice smile layout. I just got annoyed by it being recessed but I am sure I could get used to it. It's certainly light years ahead of the rubbish that passes for a keyboard on the iPhone & Storm and better than the Centro's kb as well. I'd still like to see some kind of onscreen keyboard incorporated into future builds of WebOS, if for nothing else other than entering URLs in landscape mode.

I agree with someone else's comments here yesterday that the Pre would've gained a lot had Palm been in a position to release it 3-4 months later. The current hardware & OS certainly reek of being rushed.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

mikecane @ 6/8/2009 5:40:39 AM # Q
RE: OH GEKKO!! COME BACK!! ... he did
SeldomVisitor @ 6/8/2009 7:29:36 AM # Q
palmato @ 6/8/2009 8:18:44 AM # Q
Seeing the pre from the other side of the Atlantic, it seems the pim applications are a quite an issue for palmos users. In particular, the memo app is close to useless. I have lots of memos and even winmob seems to do a better job.
Palm will need to improve them quite a bit to lure me back :-(.

PS: I refrain from ranting about the SDK .... but the delay in releasing a public version (even a beta) it's getting really annoying.
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

Gekko @ 6/8/2009 9:56:02 AM # Q

hello - i hope all is well. i'm busy now but i'll stop back in a few hours. below is my review from the other site. this was like my T5 experience all over again! what a disaster!


06/08/2009, 08:52 AM

Going back to Centro

my issues -

1. Sound Quality of Phone - Awful hissing and humming in background.
2. i like the Contacts, Calendar PIMs of the old PalmOS. it just works. the webOS PIMs aren't as clean, simple, intuitive, and easy as PalmOS.
3. keyboard - while the keyboard isn't smaller than Centro, it is more uncomfortable to use. why? the end of the keyboard is sharp and it slices at my hand sometimes when i try to type. the sides are sharp too. also, the whole keyboard piece (that bottom of the phone) is thin and hard to hold vs. a candy bar. and the device is not balance properly when open. i always feel like i need two hands to use it. unwieldy and flimsy.
4. slider - i'm tired of opening an closing it to get at the keyboard.
5. responsiveness consistency unpredictability of WebOS - it didn't always do what i wanted it to do. i'd press a button and sometimes it would respond and other times not. Centro PalmOS might be simple but it JUST WORKED. WebOS has a mind of its own. OS gets shaky and chuggy and wobbly and it scares me holding my data. it was also unpredictable - many times doing a different thing for the same action.
6. battery life sucked. abysmal. all of this pushing and pulling and synergizing has a price.
7. multitasking - what multitasking? saving and icon to be brought up later is not multitasking! on my old Centro i can listen to STREAMING RADIO like Pockettunes while i surf the web or do email. i can't stream Sprint TV/Radio and do something else on the Pre. havent tried Pandora but i want live radio stations! and i opened up like 5 basic cards (3 were PIM) and it made me shut them down WTF? jumping back and forth from card to card with a hefty elay is not fun multitasking for me.
8. WindowsMedia Streaming - i like bloomberg radio etc. - can't stream it on PRE! Centro had no problem with WMA streams!
9. Synergy - i don't like it. i want a CENTRALIZED MERGED location for my data and the ability to move it whereever i want. with Pre/WebOS - in EAS my data is trapped in that EAS work server account. if i leave my employer, i better TRY to back up the Outlook data from the Outlook side in the nick of time. because once i'm disconnected from that server - the data is trapped in the PRE and no way to get it out. i don't like this. with Centro, all i have to do is change the EAS settings to a new server and sync and i'm good to go. can't do that with PRE. it puts my data in a locked proprietary silo that i can't get at.
10. Google Calendar/Contacts - suck.
11. Lack of SD Card - sucks. i want to Auto Backup my data to SD.
12. flimsy/clumsy USB door - yeah i can use touchstone to charge it but what about in the car?
13. No 5 Way - i miss that easy simple navigation. poking around with my finger is inaccurate and clumsy.
14. No "Select All" in Copy/Cut/Paste. sorry that Orange/Shift Key dance doesn't cut it.
15. Gesture area - annoying. holding the device i hit it all the time and do stuff and launch stuff i dont want to.
16. intermittent charging failure is a problem. i can't have a device that sometimes wants to charge and sometimes doesn't. not sure if this is a software or hardware bug but i'm tired of trying to track it down. my phone is my lifeline and i cant have a phone that sometimes wants to charge and sometimes doesn't.
17. Browser - seems great at first but the font is so small - in tired of constantly pinching and squeezing.

there's probably a few more that i can think of and will add later.

i've used PalmOS devices for 10+ years - III, IIIx, V, m505, m515, T, T3, 600, 650, 700p, Centro and i REALLY wanted to like this phone but i can't. i never used an iphone so i can't compare. but it pains me to write this and it pains me to return this phone. it also pains my wallet because i gave my perfectly good Centro to my sister on Saturday so i have to buy a brand new Centro. it will only be $50 after rebate but it's the principle. at least my sister has a nice phone she likes.

there are some great things about the Pre - the beautiful display is nice. and the GMAIL IMAP PUSH instant email is nice too. but i can't find much more.

this has been a good experience although a little painful. the positives are it forced me to clean up my PIM data and move to GMAIL for personal email - something i've been putting off forever. and i had the thrill of a new device - which faded too soon.

lessons learned -

1. always do a "Frozen in Time" Last Backup of your old device in its format before you migrate to the new device. On SD Card or USB Drive if you can. you need the time machine to get back if there's trouble in the future.
2. always keep your old device and accessories for a minimum of 2 weeks before you sell or give them away. even if you THINK you love the new device at first.
3. be skeptical of 1.0 generation devices. don't believe the hype.

i hope all of you that bought the PRE do really enjoy it. this is obviously just my personal opinion. so i go get another Centro and put alll of my data back on it so all will be right again in my world. i've said this before but PalmOS is like an old shoe. it's not the flashiest thing, but it sure is comfortable and worn in and just feels good. my only concern is - where do i go when PalmOS is EOL?

10am can't come quick enough!

best wishes and good luck to all!

mikecane @ 6/8/2009 12:30:37 PM # Q
Well thanks for stopping by, Gekko. I'd been wondering what the hell happened! None of that sounds good.
mikecane @ 6/8/2009 3:12:56 PM # Q
Oh, Gekko, I had to come back to give you a kick in the shins - for your posts wanting Palm to *rush* the Pre out. Don't you wish they waited some more now?
freakout @ 6/8/2009 3:52:20 PM # Q
That's too bad, Gek. You can always give me your Pre if you're tired of it. :P
Gekko @ 6/8/2009 6:56:59 PM # Q

uh helllllllllllllllllllllllo...........can i get some feedback on my feedback? does anyone that used the Pre agree with any of it? disagree? what did you think of the PIM? what about my other points?

my primary thesis is that old time PalmOS heavy PIM users will not like the Pre. it tries to hard to be eye candy - and is all flash with no substance. the webOS multitasks no more than Garnet with TealOS on top of it. it literally feels like the same thing. these webOS "Cards" are not multitasking! "saved state" is not multitasking!!!!!!!!!! yet these cards eat resources like there's no tomorrow! if it was true multitasking i could minimize Sprint TV and still have it running in a minimized card. this was no more than smoke and mirrors - just like TealOS. scarily like TealOS - compare the two - it's SCARY no wonder Palm wanted to pull the plug on TealOS!

what's the multitasking end user real world difference?

twrock @ 6/8/2009 9:34:01 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:
i've said this before but PalmOS is like an old shoe. it's not the flashiest thing, but it sure is comfortable and worn in and just feels good.

Yep, can't agree more. After looking at both the iPhone and Pre offerings (from descriptions), I still have to conclude that good ol' Garnet does almost everything I need and does it better than the new stuff. Unfortunately, Palm never released a large-screen, rectangular phone with Garnet.

Still, it looks like Palm and Sprint figured out how to launch a product. I might not be buying, but plenty of other people are. Now let's see if they can keep the wheels from falling off and maintain some momentum.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

SeldomVisitor @ 6/9/2009 2:56:46 AM # Q
> ...does anyone that used the Pre agree with any of it?...

The problem is, and Palm's problem is, no one here got a Pre.

freakout @ 6/9/2009 4:09:38 AM # Q
The problem is, and Palm's problem is, no one here got a Pre.

Oh brother. You really are reaching now, aren't you? The Pre sold out. It broke Sprint's sales records. There are waiting lists for more.

Yep. I'm sure Palm are real worried about this "problem".

Gekko @ 6/9/2009 6:42:53 AM # Q

i think long-time 5+ year PalmOS heavy PIM users will not like the Pre. real business users with heavy PIM needs will not like the Pre. maybe i'm not the Pre's target market?

Palm built its reputation on world class PIM with the original Palm Pilot. webOS and the Pre throw all of that great PIM history out the window. i wish they would have copied over the PalmOS PIMs over the webOS and build around that. do whatever you want, but don't mess with the PIMs. at this point, if PalmOS gets EOL, i can see myself going to WINMOB. hopefully by then WINMOB 7 will be out by then.

conclusion - exchanged Pre for a new Centro this morning. did a restore of all of my data and i'm back in business. the Pre is just not for me. i'm a heavy PIM and email business user and i need rock solid PIM and email functionality. they left that out when they made the Pre.

Centro is basic but it gets the job done.

good luck and best wishes to all.

mikecane @ 6/9/2009 6:50:36 AM # Q
I read a bunch of TreoCentral threads yesterday. Someone made the ominous comment that Palm basically threw away all their PIM history and started from scratch. That is screwy - and scary.

I'll keep reading until I can get a proper fondle of a Pre.

Gekko @ 6/9/2009 6:51:48 AM # Q

correction - YESTERDAY morning switched back to a new Centro.

(post text cut and pasted from another post from yesterday but wanted to update you guys without reinventing the wheel).

i think the PIC crowd is primarily old school PalmOS users as opposed to TC which consists of a lot of recent BB and iphone and dumbphone converts. going from a dumbphone to Pre/webOS is one thing. going from many years as a heavy PIM PalmOS user to Pre/webOS is quite another. the thing that put me over the edge was the Calendar - absolutely awful - i found myself lost and confused while trying to view and set appointments - it was painful, confusing, and i could not get a good visual glimpse of the present or the future.

Gekko @ 6/9/2009 6:57:51 AM # Q
>I read a bunch of TreoCentral threads yesterday. Someone made the ominous comment that Palm basically threw away all their PIM history and started from scratch. That is screwy - and scary.

agreed. Colligan should have said "ok let's do this thing but one thing you can not change is the core functionality and beauty of Contacts and Calendar. do anything else you want, but do not f**k with Contacts and Calendar." but my guess is Ruby the "Podfather" flew in like a white knight with Elevation's backing and ran roughshod over everybody - and they all deferred to him. and he made an iphone with a sliding keyboard. and everyone was afraid to tell the emperor he had no clothes.

i'd love to know what Hawkins and Haitani think of the Pre/WebOS.

BUT - hey maybe this thing will sell LOTS and i'm just not their target market. i hope they continue making cheap Centro phones with PalmOS/PIMs though because i don't think webOS will change their PIMs to the PalmOS ones.

twrock @ 6/9/2009 7:19:13 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:
at this point, if PalmOS gets EOL, i can see myself going to WINMOB. hopefully by then WINMOB 7 will be out by then.

If you make a switch to WinMob and then come back here and tell us how much it sucks, I am going rip on you with the biggest "I told you so" I can type.

Even if they EOL Garnet, your device will still work until it finally breaks. You've gotta hope someone gets it figured out by then.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

Gekko @ 6/9/2009 7:22:08 AM # Q

my point is if the EOL PalmOS and my Centro breaks, i don't have many choice left now do i? yeah i hope WINMOB gets it right by v 7.0 and i hope i can hang on until then.
twrock @ 6/9/2009 7:46:13 AM # Q
Well, you know what they say. If at first you don't suceed, try, try, try, try, try, try again. (Was that seven times?)

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/9/2009 9:12:23 AM # Q
Ruby the Podfather is a hardware guy, not a software guy. Someone else is responsible for software.

Perhaps what you're missing is that the standard PIM wouldn't be compatible with the way the Pre's software environment is setup. Maybe it conflicts, maybe having a native app screws up response of THE browser app.

mikecane @ 6/9/2009 12:31:53 PM # Q
>>>i'd love to know what Hawkins and Haitani think of the Pre/WebOS.

HAHAHAHAHA. Just this morning I was wondering if someone could twist Haitani's arm to tell us what he *really* thinks about the new PIMs! From counting taps to ... WTF?

Your summation of TC posters sounds about right to me. Seems like they're mostly in it for the Shiny Toy aspect and not the Let Me Wring The Bloody Fek Out Of This Machine For Some Real Work.

You know, there's also ANDROID. Have you thought about that?

MikeT5 @ 6/9/2009 12:41:32 PM # Q
I would like to thank Gekko et al., for his/their hands-on analyses of palm's new pre. Their comments have been very informative and useful. On Sunday, I had no difficulty locating a pre and obtaining staff assistance at a RadioShack located in a major metropolitan NYC (NJ) mall.

Firstly, I would like to point-out that I, too, own, and enjoy using a Centro, which I have personalized with third party sofware and accessories for greater functionality and comfort. My Centro is essential in meeting my professional and travel needs. While it offers passable entertainment value (I use it to play board games, crossword puzzles, listen to internet radio on PocketTunes, and to view an occasional clip on Coreplayer), I prefer using a separate, "recreational" device, such as an Apple iTouch, for media. My centro, nevertheless, is an indispensible and unparalled business tool that runs my essential productivity software, office suites, and medical, survey, and statistical programs, along with many powerful reference resources. I use two launchers, in addition to one included by palm. for program and file management, and menuing, and have added other programs to improve the centro's telephony and "today" (agenda) views. Browsing on Blazer is an admitted drawback, but Opera Mini has improved this on the Centro; and there are times when the rendering of a mobile web site is still preferable, using Blazer for a quick look, instead of zooming (or pinching) in and out of a web page with something more flashy.

Personally, I will continue to use my Centro for the forseeable future-perhaps until a second generation pre or webOS device has been introduced that addresses many of the concerns raised about its design and comfort. I concur with those who suggest that Palm also needs to ante-ip on its promise of PIM functionality and compatibility on the webOS platform. Like Gekko et al., I extensively rely on palmOS's core PIM functions. A few third party add-ons have further improved their utility for work, such as Quick Memos, for linking, placing calls, etc., directly from a memo. I do not think I can easily give-up my reliance on memos and tasks, nor can I afford to lose the functionality and flexibility of the original caledaring and contact managment that Garnet delivers so well.

That said, WebOS is the future and it is a promising one. I won't debate the multi-tasking limitations of either palmOS or webOS or, for that matter, the itouch or iphone, which require the user to leave one program and return to the launcher to enter another. Whether or not the cards on WebOs are true examples of "live-state" multi-tasking or something less is not as important to me as easier "task switching"-though it does appear that some media "multi-tasking" capabilities on WebOs has been curtailed in comparison to what is possible on palmOS. Regardless, webOS takes "task switching" to the next level on a palm device, exceeding a few of the better known third party programs and hacks that are available. Even Microsoft's WMOS, by comparison, is slow, overly complicated, and cumbersome, especially if it is engaged without a good third party task manager, as I have found.

I like the cloud concept and palm's use of it for centralizing, storing, sharing, and synergizing data, but I would also like to see palm offer its users the option and freedom to keep their sensitive data offline and sync'd on their own hardware.

I expect we will see improvements in the webOS platform, native programs, and third party support in the future. I also applaud palm for permitting use of third party emulators for those, who, like me, will need to rely on classic programs for some time to come, or at least until they have been reliably ported onto the new platform (which may not be the case for all of our "indispensible" programs). I hope these emulators will continue to evolve, too.

Several valid criticisms raised by Gekko, et. al., on the Pre apply to the itouch/iphone, such as the unintended, unexpected, and frustrating opening and closing of programs, stemming from innaccurate readings of finger gestures ("pinching" and "flicking") on the capacitive display. If palm improves the design and comfort of the pre's dedicated keyboard, and if we see these improvements on the upcoming EOS, and other models, this will improve a superior data entry solution in my experience and opinion, anyway. While I do not have large hands, I still find typing on a capacitive screen far too difficult and inaccurate than typing on small, dedicated keyboard on the Centro- learning curve notwithstanding.

Finally, I agree with those of you who, in using the pre as a business tool or consumer device, demand that a secure storage slot be added along with increased battery capacity; I hope these issues will be addressed in future iterations. It would be disappointing if palm follows Apple's lead in capriciously limiting their devices' storage capacities and expandability. It is one thing to plan for future obscelence and another to effectively curtail the full potential and practicality of a comparatively expensive device during its lifecycle.
I find this practice insulting, especially to consumers who are plunking-down a great deal of hard-earned money for cache.

For now, I will stay with my rock-solid, customized Centro, but I am likely to be a WebOS convert in the near future, provided that palm heeds its users' suggestions to include full PIM funtionality in its new platform, backward program compatibility with evolving emulators, and by releasing its SDK to developers who would like to port their extant and new programs to the webOS platform.

Congratulations palm! You're definitely back in the game and a force to be reckoned with.

Gekko @ 6/9/2009 3:41:33 PM # Q
mikecane @ 6/9/2009 4:00:41 PM # Q
Man, that's terrible.

Did you look at Android? The HTC Magic looks like a contender, but I don't know about its PIM features.

No hard keyboard, but you might want to investigate the software/OS anyway as there's supposed to be a flood of Android phones this year. I guess some will have keyboards.

Still waiting to have a real Pre fondle for myself...

Hey Cane, you're an ebook aficionado right?
freakout @ 6/9/2009 4:10:00 PM # Q
Gekko @ 6/9/2009 4:36:50 PM # Q
>Still waiting to have a real Pre fondle for myself...

MikeCon - i need you to put the PIM through its paces!

try to do some real world PIM stuff - set up appointments weeks in advance. then go back and try to find them and change the dates, attendees, times etc. then try to get a conceptual view of your schedule. add contacts, change contacts/notes/data etc.

twrock @ 6/9/2009 5:39:25 PM # Q
Re: PIM's, I'm a DateBk5 user. For calendar and tasks, all I'd need to see is DateBk in the app store, and I'd believe it at least has those covered sufficiently.

The idea of synergy with respect to contacts sounds very good. I have no idea about the effectiveness of the implementation in webOS to this point.

Re: Android, I've been following their development for some time now. I don't think the platform is where I want to be yet, but I believe it has great potential to get there. The HTC Lancaster is a very nice looking device for people who want a keyboard (although it is a slideout vs. the Treo/Centro form factor). I like the Magic Mike mentioned a lot and the Samsung I7500 is quite impressive with it's AMOLED screen. Still, the screens are small on these things vs. the 3.7" screen I'm used to.

If Google is to be believed, there are going to be a lot of Android based phones to choose from as early as the end of this year. So until my TX dies, I guess I wait and see.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

mikecane @ 6/9/2009 5:48:40 PM # Q
>>>i need you to put the PIM through its paces!

Damn right I will! I have an agenda for my fondle, dammit! All I need is to get my mitts on a Pre that *doesn't* have that damned stupid, cloggy Demo running on it.

Gekko @ 6/10/2009 5:12:25 AM # Q

Palm was the leader for managing your PIM data (calendar, contacts, tasks) and many people today still use Palm devices that are not phone-enabled just for these functions. Given that PIM was a strong suit of the Palm branding, I am quite surprised with some of the limiting functionality in the integrated PIM apps found on the Pre in WebOS. Palm has had quite some time to optimize their own integrated PIM suite and left out several parts that current Palm OS owners have come to rely on.

Calendar: IMHO, the Calendar application on the Pre is one of the weakest aspects of the device and I am very disappointed with it.

There are daily, week, and month views in the Calendar, but no Agenda view that shows you just your appointments for the next few days like we see on many devices. The week and month views are also basically useless in that neither actually shows you any details and just shows bars if something is scheduled. You have to always go into the daily view to see what is going on for that day. I would like to see a tap and hold, tap, or small preview window to at least show the appointment name and time (again like what we see on other mobile devices).

SeldomVisitor @ 6/10/2009 6:04:12 AM # Q
All the PIMs are javascript according to posts elsewhere, with source completely revealed now.

Hack them to your heart's content to make them PalmOS-clones!

reidme @ 6/10/2009 6:33:14 AM # Q
My opinion of the Pre is that the PIM software and the preferences customization is not as good as PalmOS, but everything else is better. This is a big issue for those of us coming from PalmOS (or maybe even WinMob) but not to anyone else. Palm isn't courting former Palm users, what other option do we have except Access, LOL. Palm is going after folks who would buy an iPhone or Blackberry and they are the vast majority. We're hearing a lot of complaints though because so many of the early adopters were Palm loyalists who hoped for an iPhone with "special sauce" and got shafted.

BTW, I have not had any hardware issues with my Pre. I suspect this is the usual vocal minority as with the iPhone launch (and almost any highly anticipated launch.)

Gekko @ 6/10/2009 7:10:43 AM # Q

>BTW, I have not had any hardware issues with my Pre. I suspect this is the usual vocal minority as with the iPhone launch (and almost any highly anticipated launch.)

YET. you've had the phone for a few DAYS. give it a little time before you give the all clear signal and start casting aspersions onto others.

Gekko @ 6/10/2009 7:11:39 AM # Q

WTF are all of the Pre reviews here? did nobody here buy one? or at least play with one yet???
reidme @ 6/10/2009 8:49:45 AM # Q
How did I cast aspersions? By saying I haven't had any hardware problems with my Pre. By implying that it is only people who do have problems that complain (and rightly so.)

I am very disappointed in the PIM software and lack of customization available (so far) on the Pre, especially since Palm made so much noise about "mobile is in our DNA." In fact they have thrown out all the old Palm DNA and replaced it with Apple DNA. I can understand why you would want to go back to the Centro. Personally, I am slogging ahead with the Pre because I do enjoy a lot of it's features and I don't see any other path forward. If some manufacturer would come out with improved hardware running an improved version of Palm OS I'd probably jump at it.

BaalthazaaR @ 6/10/2009 10:45:40 AM # Q
reidme wrote:
Personally, I am slogging ahead with the Pre because I do enjoy a lot of it's features and I don't see any other path forward. If some manufacturer would come out with improved hardware running an improved version of Palm OS I'd probably jump at it.

I know I keep posting this, but have you added your voice to those clamoring for a new GarnetOS device? In the comments section of tamspalm, there is an Access employee's e-mail address to indicate your interest.

reidme @ 6/10/2009 11:26:39 AM # Q
"have you added your voice to those clamoring for a new GarnetOS device?"

I haven't, but I will. Thanks.

mikecane @ 6/13/2009 10:25:59 AM # Q
Gekko will HATE this post.

I went and deeply molested the iPhone (3G) today.

Did the tests on its Calendar I had have planned for the Pre.

Set appt: LOTS more steps than Garnet, but less aggravating than WinMob.

Change appt date/time: More steps than PalmOS, but less aggravating than creating one.

Repeating: Yes, as aggravating as in creating one for any time. Can also create an All Day that floats at top (equivalent of PalmOS PIM 5.0 No Time/All Day)

The current day Calendar view does not compress empty time, which is a PITA. HOWEVER, there is a great List View that only shows what's for THE DAY. And this is one big scroll of *multiple* days. I liked the List view *very* much and, if I had an iPhone, I'd probably use that most of the time to see what's in my schedule.

Monthly View seems to be just the month calendar with a dot on days that have something on them. No preview. Eh, I never used Monthly or Multi-Day View in PalmOS. I think Gekko *does*, so he won't like not having that.

You can also attach a Note to an appt. But again, NO icon to show that a note is attached!! WTF?

What I HATED: There was still NO icon in a created appt to show either an Alarm or Repeat (or, as I just said, a Note). WTF is up with that?! I don't understand how Apple could overlook something like that. iPhone owners - did I miss a Setting somewhere or is that how it really is?

For ME, however, I could live with the iPhone's Calendar.

Contacts was very rich, better than PalmOS 5.0 Contacts, I thought. Lots of fields, including custom ones. I really think iPhone Contacts kicks PalmOS Contact's ass.

Notes: Well, that's still a bad joke on iPhone. When the hell will Apple get serious with that?

To Do? Eh, I never use it. I think this probably requires a 3rd-party app (iPhone owners will chime in if it doesn't!).

This is the third consecutive weekend I've fondled/molested an iPhone. It is getting eerie how *good* I am getting typing on that on-screen keyboard.

Now the Pre ... couldn't get my hands on one. Best Buy had a dummy model, so I basically slid it open and shut it several times and again was shocked at how damned *tiny* it is. Also tried the keyboard. That too is *very* tiny (makes the iPhone's on-screen seem HUGE!). The lower NYC Sprint Store is now down to *one* live demo model and someone was busy molesting the hell out of it already, so I didn't want to interrupt him. Next time!

hkklife @ 6/13/2009 12:03:42 PM # Q
Again, an ENORMOUS "thank you" to Gekko for putting the device through its paces on the stuff we DIDN'T know about. Of COURSE a Webkit-derived browser is gonna blow Blazer away. Of couse any 320x480 device will be a better media player than a 320x320 one.

But the classic PIM apps (along with Graffiti & the UI) are what drew me to Palm OS in 1996 and have kept me there ever since.

By the way, has anyone noticed that prices of the remaining stock of both new & used late-model Palm OS handhelds (TX, E2, Z22) has SKYROCKETED over the past month? Boy, I'm glad I stockpiled on cheap TXs when I did!

Even if my 755p craps out on me, I still have a like-new TX ready to accept its PIM data in addition to my original TX from '05. Now when THAT ONE dies, I may have a problem....I guess I will need to start migrating my 13 years of PIM data somewhere between now and then.

Pretty fair summary of the iPhone's PIM capabilities. I use monthly view all of the time, so that's important to me. I still think Palm OS contacts has the clear advantage in usability over iPhone, although I do give the nod to Apple for more fields (but then again, how many fields did we NEED back in 95-96 when they originally created Palm OS contacts? Most people didn't even have a cell phone or e-mail back then, much less a website or social networking info!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

mikecane @ 6/13/2009 12:07:56 PM # Q
>>>how many fields did we NEED back in 95-96

Most people would be shocked comparing the original Pilot to any OS 5 device. So much has been added since then. Makes you wonder what webOS will have added too, eh? (Heh, looks what's been added to iPhone since v 1.0!)

I've already read, btw, that Safari on 3GS is faster than Palm Pre.

And for those with an iPhone thinking of going to Pre? Might wanna rethink that:

SeldomVisitor @ 6/13/2009 12:17:02 PM # Q
The source for the "current PIM apps" on the Pre is available since they're written in Javascript et al and the Pre has been broken, etc etc etc.

Want the old PIM functionality!? Start programming! It's easy, haven't you remembered what Palms said?

mikecane @ 6/13/2009 1:48:51 PM # Q
Gekko @ 6/13/2009 2:18:28 PM # Q

today i went to an AT&T store and ran an iphone through its paces with Calendar, Contacts, and Web. i had never before touched an iphone other than holding one for a few seconds. i have NEVER bought an Apple product in my life and i generally despise the liberal politics and attitude of the company and most of its employees and customers.

i must say that the build quality, GUI, form factor, display, Contacts, Calendar, and Web handily beats the Palm Pre. and this is coming from a guy who has used PalmOS products exclusively since 1999. the iphone is SOLID and feels like an expensive device. i think it's the quality of glass, metal, and plastic used. the Pre feels flimsy, cheap, plasticky, creaky, and typing on it feels like you are trying to "type into a plastic cup" as someone on TC noted. the iphone OS was simple, easy, well thought out, and intuitive. the iphone onscreen keyboard was fine and sure beat having to f**k with a slider every time you wanted to type something. and the keyboard knew exactly when to pop up. i didn't get to totally to explore the OS and Applications - but from what i've seen i bet it only gets better. no idea how battery life is but i'm sure it can be no worse than the Pre. of course, iphone App Store and ecosystem and resources and support is a huge plus.

am i getting an iphone? not in the near future. i would continue to use my trusty Centro until i can use it no longer. i love my Sprint Unlimited Everything plan for $99/month. no way am i paying $150 (50%+) more for shittier service with AT&T. i have not played with G1/Android but i'm no fan of TMob and no fan of PIMs and Docs. WinMob is still a contender if v 7.0 expected in early 2010 kicks ass.

so i will lay in the weeds for the next 12 months and hunker down with my trusty Centro which reliably and easily does everything i need it to do.

mikecane @ 6/13/2009 4:20:42 PM # Q
The thing about iPhone battery life is the 3GS improves it. And it will continue to improve because Apple is a mutha in squeezing electrons for their juice. Just read a review of the new Unibody MacBooks that deliver some startling battery life compared to the prior models *of just a few months ago*. (I wish the damned MacBook Air had the 6-8 hours of battery life!!)

Also for the iPhone there is this:

Yeah, more weight to carry but I carried AA chargers with my GENIO and I think even the TE.

BTW, is Sprint *still* telling people *never* to remove the Pre's battery? I'm still trying to figure out why they said that in the first place. What's the point of a removable battery? And will Palm/Sprint void the warranties of people who use the upcoming rumored fat battery from Seidio?

I really wish I could get some molestation time on a Palm Pre. This is frustrating me.

nastebu @ 6/13/2009 4:46:22 PM # Q
The new iPhone is also supposed to be much faster than the current version, which goes some distance to nixing the advantage of multi-tasking.

As for the PIMs, my only complaint with the calendar is the lack of weekly view, which is just silly. As Mike Cane said, how can they not have gotten around to notes sync? Otherwise they work very well, and with MobileMe syncing in the cloud I've never had corrupted data and you never have to hook up the usb cable.

Non-syncing todos are a non-issue given the quite excellent third party solutions. I use Things, which is sophisticated and syncs perfectly over wifi.

The virtual keyboard works very very well for me.

Gekko @ 6/13/2009 4:56:05 PM # Q

the Pre's "multitasking" is B.S. saving state and opening and closing cards with an EXTREME LAG does nothing for me. smoke and mirrors.
Gekko @ 6/13/2009 5:16:20 PM # Q
abosco @ 6/13/2009 5:20:02 PM # Q
Am I allowed to tell all of you, "I told you so"?


m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

twrock @ 6/13/2009 5:24:48 PM # Q
From Engadget's article on Quickoffice for iPhone:
One of our most-wanted features here can't ever be added until Apple decides to loosen up its restrictions around email. Quickoffice even makes clear that the inability to access email attachments through the app is due to "current Apple OS constraints." Why does this suck, exactly? Imagine this: your manager shoots you a new Word document and wants you to add a few lines to the end. If Quickoffice had access to your email attachments, you could just enter your inbox, pull said file into whatever folder you wanted, edit it, re-save it and send it right back. That would be sweet, but alas, we've Apple to thank for killing our hopes and dreams.

There are so many compelling things about the iPhone. There are so many good reasons to consider going ahead and jumping into the Apple system. But just about the time I'm getting seriously interested, along comes another voice to remind me of what I don't like about the company and how their obsession with control plays out in how you can and can't use their devices.

And I think it's funny how some people will defend Apple's controls as absolutely necessary and then the next moment sing Apple's praises when "out of the goodness of their heart" Apple finally opens something up a little. Gosh, isn't Apple just wonderful! ;-)

Re: multitasking/saved-state, yeah, I don't care how it's implemented, just as long as the results make using the device more useful. (Even Garnet has some form of this with music playing in the background.) But help me think through this one. I've noticed that one of the most frustrating results of lack of multitasking for me has been when I'm on the web, and I need some data from somewhere else on my Palm to put into a web form or something, and I can't get to it without leaving the browser completely. So is that because Blazer on Palm is just a total piece of crap (a bit rhetorical there), or is it just not possible to leave a web browser in a "saved-state"?

When the screens we are looking at are this small, for the most part, a superior launcher is going to solve a lot of the lack of multitasking issues. Not all, but I can't see having multiple apps displayed on a 3.2" screen anyway.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

Gekko @ 6/13/2009 5:32:23 PM # Q

1. can iphone at least view attachments ie Office? so it just can't save them to the device????

2. go back to "page view" via the menu in Blazer and it will take you back to the same web page that you left.

twrock @ 6/13/2009 10:40:55 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:

1. can iphone at least view attachments ie Office? so it just can't save them to the device????

2. go back to "page view" via the menu in Blazer and it will take you back to the same web page that you left.

1. I dunno. But "inability to access email attachments" doesn't sound promising.

2. Will it take me back to my half-filled-out form? Will everything I've done so far still be there?

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

twrock @ 6/13/2009 10:55:00 PM # Q
twrock wrote:
2. Will it take me back to my half-filled-out form? Will everything I've done so far still be there?

Nope. Tried it.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
mikecane @ 6/14/2009 8:56:28 AM # Q
>>>The new iPhone is also supposed to be much faster than the current version, which goes some distance to nixing the advantage of multi-tasking.

Um, no. The funniest thing happened yesterday during my iPhone molestation. I got interrupted by someone on Facebook thanking me for friending him!

See piccie:

This happened when I was typing in my test Calendar entry. Suddenly I was interrupted by this big-ass full-screen dialog alerting me to a new message. Being curious, I decided to see wtf was up and that brief exchange ensued.

But after every one of my replies, thinking that was the end of it, I went back to Calendar - and got interrupted AGAIN.

It was a PITA. I can see how the Pre's Notifications area would have been nice to have during those moments!

And no, abosco, you do NOT get to tell us You Told Us So. This is webOS 1.0.2 vs iPhone 2.1 and soon 3.0. All of you are acting as if Palm doesn't have it's own big-ass To Do List of things they want to add/fix/tweak. This is Palm Pilot 1.0 all over again.

Personally, I've concluded that webOS is *not* the current software. webOS is a *paradigm* and I really am beginning to suspect that in a year or two, Pre owners will get an OTA update that will give them a *native* OS, not this HTML 5/JS/CSS mask currently on the Linux OS. But that's just me, being paranoid. And there'd be no shame in Palm doing that, either.

What I still need to know: Has *anyone* gotten Classic to work without it frikkin crashing? I mean *really* using it, as I would have to, to place all my LifeDrive data into it. So far, I've read nothing but crash reports from putting in a minor amount of stuff.

abosco @ 6/14/2009 8:57:07 AM # Q
You can view MS Office or PDF attachments right in the email application (in portrait or landscape), but you can't edit or save them. I agree, this is a major drawback. I'm still looking over my options for office suites on the iPhone. Maybe OS 3.0 will give developers some extra leeway to get this done.

m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G
mikecane @ 6/14/2009 9:51:01 AM # Q
Will OS 3.0 allow you copy text from an Office or PDF attachment? Or are these things basically image proxies?
abosco @ 6/14/2009 2:23:19 PM # Q
I don't think so. It's a step-up from images - multiple excel sheets are displayed in their own tabs that you can select. But beyond that, I don't think you can manipulate them, even with OS 3.0.

The lack of full support for Office documents is what prevents the iPhone from being a business-class smartphone. My company still won't allow me to access the Exchange server with my iPhone, although they did tell me "sometime in the future." Very frustrating, considering corporate Blackberries are humming along just fine for us.

m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

mikecane @ 6/14/2009 2:55:35 PM # Q
Quick App: Documents to Go for iPhone

TWO versions - one which will do email ATT *if* you have Exchange.

As great a step as D2G on iPhone is ... um, where the hell is that BLUETOOTH KEYBOARD, Apple?! (And Do Not Smirk, Palm - where is it for the Pre too?!)

twrock @ 6/14/2009 8:28:36 PM # Q
Global bluetooth keyboard entry poses a security threat for the iPhone, so Apple will not allow it. Bluetooth keyboards "violate" the purity of the pre-defined iPhone text entry systems and can not be allowed. ;-)

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
nastebu @ 6/14/2009 10:04:01 PM # Q
I've been wondering about external keyboards on the iphone. 3.0 makes it possible to have the phone talk to accessories, and opens up bluetooth a bit, but I haven't heard that any of that makes external keyboards possible.

Apple's restrictions can be annoying. In particular, Apple seems quite dead set on regarding the iPhone as a phone and not a pda, therefore the need for things like external keyboards or fully integrated office suites aren't priority.

To be honest, I've come to accept that. I've had an iPhone for almost a year and I've had *one* crash that required a hard reset. And I've *never* lost data. Sure, apps crash all the time, but that only means they quietly dump you back to the desktop. The function of the rest of the thing isn't affected, and I've never lost data in a third person app either.

That has a lot to do with keeping the software deeply restricted, no? It's not a bad trade off.

mikecane @ 6/15/2009 5:47:48 AM # Q
Apple would have to put a universal keyboard driver in the OS.

Maybe Jobs hates keyboards?

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Anthonyjt @ 6/8/2009 7:52:51 AM # Q
I am a devoted Palm user since the Palm IIIe. Coming up the ranks with a IIIC, 515, Tungsten, Treo 650, 755P. My family has been avid Palm fans at my direction and I must say my children actually use them to help organize themselves. Recently they have defected due to marketing and hype but I hung in there. I say all that to preface my review.
I decided to take one last step with Palm because of the incremental improvements I have seen with my life's organization. Over the years I have been able to handle more tasks throughout my day because of the information I always had a my finger tips. It has always amazed me how people would like what I was able to do, but were too intimidated to learn how I did it. With my 755p on its last leg I was ready for the next step but could not fully conceptualize what it would be. As an aside Palm has always been able to show me what I did not realize I was missing in terms of organization, if I just gave it a chance. I started using it. This is one concept I find quite difficult in explaining to people: " how do you know, you don't know?". That's what Palm has done with aplomb again.
My purchasing experience was great, kudos to Sprint. 20 minute wait and out the door. Being a mature technology user I don't get any kicks or excitement about waiting in line for hours. My time is too expensive. I must admit my initial impressions with the Pre were mixed. I could not get the rhythm on the system trying to stay with the previous thought of using the 755p. This rhythm has been constant back to the Palm Pilot so it is a drastic change. Change is good when it has been well though out. Once I got my arms around the "Cloud" concept I was off and running. The "cards" multitasking is excellent for the small screen and one handed use. All of the software was snappy once I figured out what I was doing and what it was supposed to do. As a long time PDA user the Pre defiantly takes it to the next level. I think it will take me a good month to separate out my different social groups I have organized thus far and set them in the Cloud to share and interact on a different plane. I hope other Cloud services will jump on the bandwagon with synergy to make the Pre an even greater success. Google was right on the money coordinating their calender and contacts with the Pre. Lets hope Yahoo does the same along with MySpace and all the other social networks. The phone itself has a very pleasing aesthetic look and a digital satisfaction as you hold it on you hand. The rounded corners make it feel organic and natural. Now for the critical side.
The sharp edge were the phone slides apart needs to be just slightly rounded. It won't effect the functioning of the slider, but it is uincomfortable. I noticed yesterday while getting to know the phone that after watching some videos the back lower 1/2 started to get incomfortably hot, like a program was still running in the background. It got warm enough I took the battery out to reset it to stop whatever was going on, This stopped it and I have not had the problem since. Every once in a whole the programs give a slight hesitation but not very often. . It took me a while to figure out how to do basic things like dim the screen to increase battery life or turn it on and off when the screen had gone too sleep. I still have not been able to link to it by bluetooth to transfer contacts. I think you have to transfer them to the Cloud then transfer to the phone. Thats one I'm still working on. Also the rhythm of ignoring a call with text has eluded me. I know you can do it, just how. These problems tend to make me rethink how I have done things in the past and see there is a better mouse trap. No complaints , just criticism.
All in all it has been a pleasurable experience. My goal with the better cloud interface is to start several blogs and see how it can be used in my profession. For those on the fence between this and the iPhone, if you're entertainment centered get the iPhone. If you're business center with excellent entertainment choices, get the Pre. The Pre has done everything the iPhone has and then some. The press (with dubious intentions) has such a bad taste in its mouth from Palm I think it will take the Pre a while to come from underneath that cloud( no pun intended). Just my thought
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Pre first thoughts

pencom @ 6/8/2009 11:25:40 AM # Q
Sprint store here in Vegas opened at 8:00…I got there about 7:00. There was a small line, which increased before 8:00. The store had 17 Pre units and all were gone within about ½ hour. I thought the store did a fine job and got everyone up and running pretty quickly. Hats off to Sprint for that. Sprint gave me a free Bluetooth unit for being a new customer. I took the Pre unit home and did something I generally don't do…I read the how to manuals and went on line to review the rest. The setup that Sprint did actually worked. I setup my e-mail and it works. Very simple to do. The WiFi worked without a hitch. Actually, I found that the network speed I was getting was a bit better then the WiFi so …I don't bother with it anymore. The first day….the network seemed a bit sluggish but I assumed that was because of the increased use of bandwidth. Sunday it was not an issue. Today it's not an issue. I took the unit around my golf course on Sunday checking for bars….got full bars all around the course. The more I use the Pre the more fond I become of it. Once you get used to how it works, there is no question that the WebOS is a winner. I downloaded Pandora and some other things, got a Palm update. My unit gets hot while charging and there is some concern about battery life. I'm going to monitor those issues. Other then that….the Pre is a gem.
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How decent is the calender function?

mkng @ 6/8/2009 11:34:34 PM # Q
Dear users who have already purchased the palm pre.
As I don't have a pre available in my country, I envy all of you who have purchased. I have refused to buy an iphone in anticipation of the pre, and have stuck with palm and my now centro.

My question is; for those who have bought a pre and used its PIM services, how good is the calender for day to day use. I disliked winmobile/iphone calender app because of making an appointment more difficult. Is it easy/quick to add appointments, and is there any function like floating appointments that Datebk6 has???

RE: How decent is the calender function?
mikecane @ 6/13/2009 4:30:43 PM # Q
You need to scroll up and read the posts about that already here.
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