Palm Responds to 700p Issues Letter
One of the most discussed topics amongst the Palm community in the 2nd half of 2006 has been the myriad of bugs, quirks, and general "issues" surrounding the Treo 700p, Palm's flagship Palm OS device.
Steve Sinclair, Palm's Senior Product Manager for Palm OS Wireless Products, has responded to an open letter from a member of the TreoCentral forums. Steve has replied with a surprisingly detailed letter detailing his thoughts on the 700p ROM and on Palm's communication strategy. In short, Palm is working on addressing some of the major issues plaguing the 700p but nothing is expected to be released until Q1 2007.
The full text of Palm's reply may be found in here. (.PDF link)
Some background information on the issue:
The TreoCentral community were rallied by member Bob-C to try and make their collective voices heard. The TreoCentral community wrote a heartfelt letter in November imploring Ed Colligan to be more forthcoming with the Treo community about Palm's support stance for the 700p. The original thread can be found here.
Chief amongst 700p user complains (this author among the many dissatisfied) is its terrible LifeDrive-like lag when switching between apps. This is especially noticeable when switching between from an application to phone mode.
Another issue that plagues 700p music aficionados is the frequent audio stuttering and skipping. While Normsoft issued an update for PocketTunes shortly after the 700p's release, Palm has not even acknowledged the issue until now.
The final point of concern mentioned in the article (but by no means the 700p's final bug) is the 700p's mediocre Bluetooth performance, despite the Garnet Bluetooth stack being updated to 1.2. These issues include, but are not limited to, poor audio quality, dropped pairings, and limited headset compatibility.
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I hope people now believe those of us who had complained...
It would be nice to see Palm finally build a device that has been thoroughly debugged and has adequate specs given the price they're asking for their hardware.
TVoR
Read the actual letter
It does (refreshingly) acknowledge some of the major issues, and isn't so nasty toward "power users" as we've come to expect from Palm.
However, we may not see the first firmware patch until MARCH 2007 or later, and the massive lag (which they admit to) may *NEVER* be fixed because they apparently designed the memory to the WinMob specs and then bolted on PalmOS to the WinMob hardware. Delays are lengthened by the Carrier "partners" who have final say on what happens on their network, of course.
It's nice to have some thoughtful communication coming back to us from Palm for a change (rather than the endless marketing babble).
Time will tell if Palm really decides to change for the better. In the end, the proof will be when Palm someday releases and supports a Treo that seems to have been *properly* tested before and after release. In other words - excuse letters are less important to me than bluetooth that works, RAM that's sufficient, and app switching without lag RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX and not 9 or 10 months later.
RE: Read the actual letter
RE: Read the actual letter
They do do that. It's called the Treo 680.
RE: Read the actual letter
>They do do that. It's called the Treo 680.
Ummmmm, battery reportedly doesn't make it through the day for many users, sound quality and BT no better and possibly worse than the 650, build quality much worse.... If anything, the Treo 680 proves the point I was trying to make in the quote you referred to.
But you were probably just being sarcastic, but forgot the smiley face at the end.
RE: Read the actual letter
Mine was terrible out-of-the-box, but has gotten better very quickly. Should now last two days without trouble. (i hope) Plus, extended batts on the way.
sound quality and BT no better and possibly worse than the 650
Completely, utterly wrong. BT is much better and voice quality has shown a noticeable (although not spectacular) improvement.
build quality much worse....
Nope. Feels just as solid as the 650, apart from my slightly dodgy power button.
Seriously, it's a great unit. Worth the upgrade.
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: Read the actual letter
What is it with Palm and power buttons?
I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.
The responses are not, in general, cordial
Ouch.
RE: The responses are not, in general, cordial
If Palm is going to market to the common man (they plaster that goofy orange logo all over our bus and train shelters) then they gotta expect that our words will not be as well-crafted as the guy running their entire wireless division and the people who wrote it for/with him to address some very serious and justified complaints.
Would you like us to send our comments to you first for editing, Mr. Hemingway?
Palm has effectively dealt with the problems
Because, as we all know, when a message post thread disappears from sight off the "bottom of the page", it disappears from mind, too.
Invisible idiots, indeed.
Case closed!
Giggle.
RE: PR Department wrote it?
My boss and I have Treo 700ps, purchased about a week apart immediately upon initial retail availability of the 700p. Another coworker has a Treo purchaed in July after he returned his Q. Then I recommended the 700p to another colleague as the lesser of the Verizon Treo evils (the 700w being the alternative) so he bought one about a month after that.
I've personally used each person's device (none of them are even remotely close to power users and use their devices primarily as BB-style quick e-mail platforms with moderate phone usage). So that experience, coupled with my decade of experience with the Palm OS, can definitely vouch for the fact that Palm's claim that "some" 700ps are more affected by issues than others is utter rubbish.
All of these users (all upper management types, btw) are dismayed by the lag, the poor phone performance and the weak BT performance. One of the users came to the 700p from a RAZR V3c and was stunned at the lack of BT voice dialing and that Palm has the audacity to charge $20 for underperforming voice dialing software.
Mind you, none of these 3 users have SD cards installed and all have 50mb+ of available RAM. They've not installed anything onto their devices other than maybe MobiTV (in 1 case), VersaMail (in all 3 cases) and a solitaire game or two (all units). The lag is (mostly) not present on a freshly-reset device. But upon loading any PIM data from scratch (even beaming it over) and just one app the 700p starts lagging. Installing VersMail worsens the lag and (for Verizon 700ps at least--I believe this is actually mostly a VZW network issue) doing ANY kind of text messaging brings the unit to a screching halt.
Other than the fact that VersaMail is in ROM on Sprint devices and the SMS bug lockups seem to be much worse on Verizon, there's no real difference between the two units. And what does Palm mean by "different radios"? The Sprint & Verizon 700ps are IDENTICAL in every way other than the ROM image and exterior cosmetics!
As it stands now, if *I* had to buy a new Palm unit *today* the 680 and TX (and possibly the E2) are the only Palm products I'd even consider purchasing. The 700p & LifeDrive are fatally flawed, the Z22 is under-spec'd, and I wouldn't touch a 240*240 Windows Mobile product with a 10-ft TH55 stylus.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: PR Department wrote it?
Overall I'm less than impressed. Aside from the increased RAM, removed nub, and thinner design (only just) the 680 is a downgrade from the 650.
Initially I had considered purchasing a Crimson 680 for myself. Now I'm not so sure this device is worthy of the cash. Even the build quality isn't as good. The lateral plastic runners are extremely cheap, and the SD hatch acts as though it may flop open at any given moment.
-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com
RE: PR Department wrote it?
What about the improved RF performance & voice quality? And the improved Bluetooth? Remember, the 680 still has the most free RAM of any NVFS Palm device other than the TX...and the largest heap/cache sizes. Thats gotta count for something!
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: PR Department wrote it?
The increased RAM and cache is indeed nothing to sneeze at, but hardly standout. It matters little at any rate, because like it or not...this is all you're going to get now that the 650 is EOL. The 680 is a credible device, but it wasn't designed as an "upgrade" to the previous model; it's designed to tap a new audience.
For a 650 user this phone leaves something to be desired. As I said, it's doubtful I will purchase one. I plan on waiting to see the iPhone before making any smartphone purchase.
-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com
RE: PR Department wrote it?
-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com
RE: PR Department wrote it?
I found the 680 display to be a slight improvement; it doesn't have the blue tint that my 650 screen does. I have noticed I need to apply a bit more pressure to get a touchscreen response, though I wouldn't call it "flaky".
Even the build quality isn't as good. The lateral plastic runners are extremely cheap, and the SD hatch acts as though it may flop open at any given moment.
I like the new runners; they're more grippy than those on the 650. The SD cover seems fine, although the power button on my unit is a bit dodgy - it doesn't "click" when you press it.
Apart from the battery - which despite some initial concerns, is now giving me acceptable performance - it's better in nearly every way than the 650. As for the "pokiness", don't you find that it switches to the phone app a lot faster than the 650? I do...
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: PR Department wrote it?
My experience with a TT2 and TX have lead me to believe they are using an inferior touchscreen vs. older models. My old IIIxe, HandEra 330, and Zodiac2 all had very nice touchscreens. I replaced the touchscreen on the TT2 and it now has a very nice touchscreen as well. YMMV
I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.
Lag?
Someone tell me about this "Lag". Is it the same on the:
1. 650
2. 680
3. 700p
???????????
I have a 650 and while it's not close to being as snappy as my old T3, it's pretty usable and not *too* annoying.
RE: Lag?
RE: Lag?
RE: Lag?
That's not going to be good for business. That's not going to be good for anybody.
RE: Lag?
Interesting.....
You know, while I realize that the 700p isn't a perfect device, it is better than some of the other competing products I have tried ( and I cannot claim to have tried a majority of products available)
I've had mixed experiences of using the Treo 700p. Posted about it on my blog-
Anyways, its nice to see Palm responding in such a relatively forthright manner.
- cheers
RE: Interesting.....
If anything, the letter shows how difficult a position Palm is in as they have so many "masters" to serve:
1) Engineering limits
2) Stockholders (lack of RAM = "savings")
3) Carrier requirements
4) End users with varied needs
Although I don't envy being in the position of making all these interests happy, I hope a little more emphasis is placed on building the Treo with *more* than most users need, rather than building for the least of the end users as they have been doing. Or find a way to release a "cheap" model for people who just want to play Bejeweled and make calls, and a "normal" model for people who want to use it for email, remote desktop, database work, large PIM activity, internet work, etc.
I've never purchased a computer with more RAM and speed and been sorry, but almost every time I've underspec'd to save a few bucks it's come back to bite me later. With the capacity available, people find more and more reasons to use it later - but they come to hate the device if they have no upgrade path when they need it.
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There was a thread a while ago here about it
I still can't believe Palm is reacting so openly about this. Good to hear that they are working on improving customer relations and reliability of their products!
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