Comments on: WebOS 2 Update Not Coming to Earlier Pre, Pixi, Pluses

no webos update for you Engadget sat down for a talk with Jon Rubinstein today and in the process received confirmation of stunning bit of bad news: all of the older Palm-branded legacy WebOS devices-Pre, Pre Plus, Pixi, Pixi Plus-will not be receiving an update to WebOS 2.0 despite numerous earlier promises by HP to the contrary. As recently as last month, a leaked WebOS update schedule hinted that the rollout would start by March.

According to Engadget, Rubinstein stated that Palm "missed a product cycle" due to its financial woes last year and that the older devices lacked the horsepower to run not only WebOS 2.0 but any future variants of the OS. This sounds like more of a business and carrier partner-related decision than one tied to specific hardware limitations. At the very least, one would imagine that the Pre Plus' 512mb of RAM would ensure a WebOS 2.0 experience reasonably comparable to that of the Pre 2.

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I'm Done with These Liars

LiveFaith @ 2/10/2011 10:30:09 AM # Q
HP is run by a pack of liars. They PROMISED this. It was not hopeful, or wishful thinking, but a verifiable announced promise. One that had a lot of folks hold of on jumping to one of the modern devices available from other companies.

HP lied when they said they would no longer announce products and say they would be available in coming months. That was their CEO! Within 2 weeks they pulled another 2009 Palm disaster announcing 3 products that will not be available for 3-7 MONTHS, and no prices or carriers are even mentioned.

The Pre 2 was promised for VZW in the fall and it STILL cannot be purchased. They lied.

The corporate culture of HP apparently has sent the message loud and clear that NOTHING they say has any validity to it. Their promises are empty.

Yesterday's Clark W Griswold slap in the face was my LAST straw. I have been loyal to Palm since 1998 and my Palm IIIe special edition.

Palm was a tiny Nemo swimming among the corporate sharks (like HP), and I weathered through every one of their missteps, complaining all the way of course. I bought device after device and even was 1st in line in my city to pay full price for an ATT Pre which excelled my old Treo half the time and came up short another half. I survived that wimpy product due to the superstars at WebOSInternals, PreWare and the Hombrew community.

Enough! If HP were bringing something serious to the tech party, then I might have to eat crow. But, they brought a nice tablet (which I really don't want), a freakin' rehashed Pre that has basically no traction now, and that ridiculous Veer (off course) with the proprietary connector, small screen, and pathetic battery reduction.

I'm about the only WebOS user on this entire Palm fansite. And now HP has told me to upgrade or ki$$ their collective a$$e$. I will not, and from the looks of PreCentral, most their are jumping ship too.

I (and an army of others) have been screaming for you guys to bring the Palm experience to a LARGE screened, thin bezeled, thin tablet FF device. Apple listened and WALKED IN and took over. Google partners in droves took it a step further and rocked the world with a host of great tablet devices. M$ is trying to get in on the game.

You could have rocked the world with a 4", ultrathin, minimized bezel, tablet FF device with virtual KB. Palm handed you the best mobile OS to run on it.

But you idiots gave us yet another Pre and that ridiculous Veer. Instead of today's headlines screaming "HP brings new Superphones to the party", we see everywhere "Will their be a market for the Veer WHEN it finally is released".

Then you go on to destroy the last thread of a user base that you had by breaking promises. Fool me once, your fault. Fool me twice, MINE. I'm off to catch up on the rest of the tech world that has passed me by for the past 5 years, and see who to give my money to.


PS - I'm sorry for misstating the parts about delivering devices that don't inspire. I should have stated that the uninspiring devices will be available in the COMING MONTHS!


Pat Horne

RE: I'm Done with These Liars
hkklife @ 2/10/2011 11:53:19 AM # Q
I remember thinking when the m100 line was released that it was a foolish, pointless exercise in a neutered, low-margin, commodity PDAs when Palm should have been putting their $ into a new OS, color screens, multimedia support and a proper Palm V successor.

Then when the original Zire came out I thought the exact same thing.

When the Treo 650 came out (and the 680 + 700 series) I was underwhelmed and said they should be making a smaller, sleeker 320x320 device alongside a large-screen "T3 smartphone". We didn't get a 320x480 Palm smartphone until 2009's Pre.

I said it yet again when they brought Hawkins back to push the Fooleo when Wintel netbooks were already hitting the market and positively set to demolish anything Palm could hope to release. I was so pleasantly surprised to see Engadget's open letter to Palm as well as the news of the Fooleo's cancellation.

I said it again when the Centro came out but I ended up being dead wrong, as the Centro (especially the superb 128mb version) was the (final) surprise hit from Palm and packed all of the smartphone "essentials" of the time other than stuff that had been traditionally absent from past Treos (big screen, 3.55mm jack etc).

But the Veer looks like the most pointless waste of $ I have ever seen. No one was ASKING for a Pixi in 2009 and certainly not for a Pixi successor in 2011. Furthermore, for the handful of people that DID want a Pixi-style device, the original Pixi formfactor is pretty solid. I have one and the keyboard is quite usable. Take the existing Pixi, give it a substantial CPU boost, and remove the gesture area and bump the screen up to 2.8" 320x480 or so. Put WebOS 3.0 on there. BINGO! New entry-level smartphone for chump change. The Veer reminds of of the very bad old days of Palm---a pointless connector change, no 3.5mm jack, a small screen, and a fixed internal battery. It's like HP gave the green light to resurrect all of the worst mistakes from the past decade at Palm.

HP already HAD a suitable entry-level device in the Pixi that just needed a mild spec bump. Heck, they should probably have just dumped the Pixi and never designed the Veer. Instead they could've pushed an 8GB Pre 2 as the entry-level device. Then had the 16GB Pre 3 as the midrange handset and developed a proper 32GB, 4"+ candybar, all-touchscreen WebOS 3.0 unit as the flagship device.

I feel horrible for Pat and the handful of the PIC faithful who use a WebOS device as their daily driver here. Yesterday's news makes me very glad I got out when I did and moved to Android. I got a new Pixi Plus a few weeks ago when they blowing them out new for $60 because I figured it would be good to have a backup VZW smartphone in case something bad happened to my Droid X. Besides, it helps to actually own a WebOS device when trying to cover PIC stuff. I figured with the forthcoming update, that Pixi Plus was the most affordable, foolproof way to get a taste of WebOS 2.x.

Of course, being a tried & true Palm Pessimist, I was HIGHLY skeptical last fall when they "promised" the update for existing devices. I was even more doubtful when I saw the rash of Pixi Plus blowout sales over the past month and when the leaked OS update roadmap emerged and no one made any official comment about OS updates. Now we all know why. Palm from about 2000 onwards looks like it truly is going to end up as a textbook case:

-Palm failed to capitalize on their near-monopoly of the handheld computing market from 1996 onwards and caused many users to jump ship to PPC or simply stop carrying a PDA.
-Palm pissed off all of their faithful PDA users when they went smartphone-crazy from 2004 onwards.
-Palm then pissed of all of the Palm OS users when they adopted their bizarre WinMob strategy in 2006-2008.
-Palm once again pissed off all of the Palm OS users (many for good) when they developed WebOS and jettisoned official backwards compatibility as well as so many of the positive Palm OS attributes(PIM, Hotsync, removable storage etc). The Pre delays and Sprint exclusivity didn't help matters either.
-HP then pissed off all of the Palm WebOS users when it decided to basically abandon "Palm WebOS" in favor of "HP WebOS".
-Throughout all of this time of alienating the user base, the developers have been REPEATEDLY trampled and given a fat middle finger by HP and Palm.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: I'm Done with These Liars
LiveFaith @ 2/10/2011 12:56:42 PM # Q

Will you go over to the left coast and apply for a job with HP? They don't need you b/c they sell $29 printers and hook their buyers on $34 ink replacement. They'll make all the money they'll need. But, they need somebody with an ear on the ground in the smartphone world.

I think @ 3/4 of Palm decision makers jumped ship when they saw the handwriting. HP promptly replaced them with people just as stupid.
Pat Horne

RE: I'm Done with These Liars
mikecane @ 2/10/2011 5:13:58 PM # Q
Eh. I think you're getting excited over nothing.

I think the Veer and the Pre were in the design pipeline. HP didn't have its own phone designs so it went with those. Carrier pricing might help, although I doubt we're going to see lines for either of those.

The TouchPad is the thing I want. But wtf is its price and available when? Based of Apotheker opening his yap, I really expected the TouchPad to be in stores in weeks, not frikkin seasons!

webOS 3.0 clearly isn't finished, just as webOS 1.0 wasn't.

With HP spending over a billion on Palm to get webOS, I don't think we'll see them going nowhere with it, as ACCESS did after buying classic PalmOS.

These are still very early days for tablets, despite the iPad being out months (and it has been months, not a year yet!). An $800 Motorola Xoom is going nowhere. I think HP has the same kind of muscle Apple has to put out a tablet at a reasonable price. I'd be shocked if the 16GB TouchPad was over $499.

As for talk of a September iPad 3, that's Tokyo Apple Gruber saying that. It could mean nothing.

RE: I'm Done with These Liars
Gekko @ 2/10/2011 5:37:54 PM # Q

hell hath no fury like a Reverend scorned.

RE: I'm Done with These Liars
gmayhak @ 2/10/2011 6:33:14 PM # Q
A comments from Precentral...

Utter total, complete, embarrassing FAILURE. that's FAIL, as in more VAPORware. I was mortified that they even brought up the pre 2, what a total joke, totally stumped on the veer (vapor), excited for about 10 minutes on the pre3 (no gorilla glass?video out?awesome screen? list goes on), and just plain confused by the touchpad. I mean, seriously, why not buy an ios device at this point. Heck, that Atrix is looking sweet on the review at BGR review. THIS is what you come up with? THIS is what SHOULD have been at CES 2011, which they could have walked away with in the palm of their hands. Notice HP took the Palm logo off the PALM website? I hope this is because Palm is embarrassed by this Vaporevent. Sad, just Sad. they just can't get the hardware correct, ever. Nothing available now, don't even BEGIN to bring up the blah 2. Available in the Summer? umm, no thanks. Woulda been nice if nokia bought Palm.
For anyone that thinks this touchpad is "cool", truly compare it against the ipad. Worse screen resolution, no apps & no hardware top differentiate the two. Wow, the touchpad can share contacts and talk to a pre3. cool. that's SO think beyond. FAILURE!
Just remember: Duarte left Palm last Summer, and ALREADY he's made HUGE improvement in the Android. That's BEYOND!

HP you SUCK! I'll wait on Samsung at the MWC for the new Galaxy S2! I can't wait to ditch the HPalm name FOREVER! Hopefully your shares of stock fall and you stop making mobile products altogether because you have completely fallen off of your game! Ruby you should have known better than to show up with a "decent" product and not truly WOW us with carriers, prices, and drop are you guys still in business?

Tech Center Labs

RE: I'm Done with These Liars
StrawMan @ 2/11/2011 3:41:32 AM # Q
"hell hath no fury like a Reverend scorned."

Exactly, what I was about write - beat me to it.

But go on Reverend, join the rest of us on the outside - it's not perfect here either, but is much easier to take the dashed hopes and disappointment as an outsider having moved on looking nostalgically back at the past.

And my I be the first to welcome you to the new millennium - a lot has changed while you've been away and it aint all bad.

RE: I'm Done with These Liars
Gekko @ 2/11/2011 7:13:55 AM # Q

Reverend - maybe go to Best Buy -

according to this - they'll give you a $53 credit for your Pre Plus as a trade in -

RE: I'm Done with These Liars
mikecane @ 2/11/2011 9:36:58 AM # Q
>>>Just remember: Duarte left Palm last Summer, and ALREADY he's made HUGE improvement in the Android.


RE: I'm Done with These Liars
hkklife @ 2/11/2011 10:45:47 AM # M Q
No? NO? How can you look at Honeycomb and not agree that it is a giant step forward from the patchwork, ADD maddeningly inconsistent UI of Gingerbread and its predecessors (2.3 & below)?

Or are you just doubting that Duarte had enough time to work his magic after his arrival last year?

RE: I'm Done with These Liars
mikecane @ 2/11/2011 2:03:02 PM # Q
Honeycomb is a huge disappointment based on what he did with webOS. That UI is still for people who want to play under the hood. And probably always will be, given multiple home screens and widgets. It's neither as simple as iOS (Just Do It) or webOS (Just Type). Nothing I've seen in the Honeycomb demo videos passes the Make It Apparent test. Even webOS can seem confusing until people know about the power of Just Type. But at least there's that damn "Just Type" prompt to get them going (ala Windows' START button innovation). Honeycomb will also face the leave older devices behind hurdle when it gets to 4.0. That is inevitable.
RE: I'm Done with These Liars
mikecane @ 2/11/2011 2:07:43 PM # Q
Hey, Rev, did you see this?

The Engadget Interview: Jon Rubinstein and Steven McArthur talk webOS on PCs, 'Music Synergy,' competition, and more

Why the Veer and 3:

>>>Jon: The reality is... we missed a product cycle last year, so we're now focused on bringing these to market, and we have a lot more in the pipeline. Whether something's got 50 more pixels on the screen...

-- as I said. HP went with what was ready.



Engadget: And what OS version is the TouchPad running?

Jon: It's webOS 3.0.

Engadget: What about the Pre 3?

Jon: We'll issue an OTA update at some point so it'll get 3.0.

Engadget: What about the older devices?

Jon: Not the older devices. We wanted to add lots of cool new capabilities, and frankly the older products aren't powerful enough.

Engadget: Pre 2?

Jon: Pre 2 is okay.

Engadget: So the original devices... they're not getting an update?

Jon: No. But we're going to do something special for those people.

Palm rep: We want to support our existing customer base.

Jon: We'll do something. The older devices simply don't have the horsepower.


Man, Sony faced this same thing with the Reader 500. It was too weak and its flash space too small to give it the ePub and PDF upgrade of the 505. They did all sorts of things for the early buyers: a trade-in allowance that went on for quite a while. Given that the 500 was well-used and *old* by the time of the trade-in, I think it was a damn good deal. Most other companies just say, Eh, that's life.

I'd say see what they're going to offer you before abandoning ship, especially if you like webOS.

RE: I'm Done with These Liars
mikecane @ 2/11/2011 2:47:33 PM # Q
Annnnd there's more:

HP confirms legacy webOS apps will run on webOS 3.0, TouchPad keeps its Mojo

RE: I'm Done with These Liars
Gekko @ 2/11/2011 3:50:33 PM # Q

yeah keep waiting. like a chump.

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I'm done

M3wThr33 @ 2/10/2011 1:02:09 PM # Q
This was the last straw. I'd been with Palm since the Handspring Visor Platinum. That's over a decade with a myriad of devices.

The Pre is junk and I miss my Treo 650.

I'm going to be Android when my contract is up. No question. At least they seem to listen to people demanding stuff. You know, basic stuff, like a BATTERY that lasts over 20 minutes.
I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

RE: I'm done
LiveFaith @ 2/10/2011 5:23:09 PM # Q
That is like a giant echo. Even the die hards over at PreCentral are jumping left and right like rats from a ship. The handwriting is on the wall ... HP is doing another Compaq iPaq implosion and they do not and will not care. They can blow the entire $1.4B and hardly affect a shareholder.

They showed their true colors since the acquisition. Liars, deceivers, and out of touch with the market. This is NOT Palm anymore. HP took their OS and ironically (their crappy hardware, and is on another course altogether. Palm truly did die yesterday officially.

I've got a year left on my Pre +, but this rattletrap will never last that long. This summer, I'll make the switch. I'll start analyzing iOS, Android, BBOS, & even WP according to my needs. The first two have the highest interest, but up just not up to speed on their strengths and weaknesses enough to decide.

Taking Gekko's advice on the AT&T "evo" and checking it out. By summer even better options will be available. Oh, and HP will be trying to sell the also rans, that they announced 5 months before!
Pat Horne

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webOS 2.1 on Pre+

icarus @ 2/23/2011 4:04:17 PM # Q
Hey folks

What is your problem?

I got the webOS 2.1 upgrade for my Palm Pre Plus!!!



Palm III, Palm III, Palm m105, Palm Tungsten T, palmOne LifeDrive, palmOne Tungsten T5, Palm TX, palm Tréo 680.
& palm pré on the wish list !

RE: webOS 2.1 on Pre+
richf @ 2/27/2011 6:57:55 AM # Q
icarus, did you have to search this out or did it find you with out any effort on your part? I have run the update app and nothing found.
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->TC->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid>Pre Plus
Reply to this comment

HP stuff

richf @ 2/27/2011 7:13:49 AM # Q
Just updated my profile and wanted to see how it looked. Not bragging by any stretch of the imagination. Have any of you guys had experience with the early HP stuff? Even downloaded photos for a nostalgic look. Actually scouting around for something new to get and not very successful, so I went yesteryear.
Have a nice day!
HP 41CX->HP 75C->Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->TC->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid>Pre Plus
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