Comments on: New Treos on Cingular in October?
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RE: Sweet...
Motorola has really gone after this market with some killer products. Hope Treo can step up to the task.
RE: Sweet...
Motorola has really gone after this market with some killer products.
Like what? The Q? Have you tried using a Motorola Q?
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Sweet...
Erm, is that a joke? The Treo has a bloody fantastic battery life currently; it's certainly streets ahead of your usual dumbphone/iPod.
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: Sweet...
Streets ahead?
Yeah...maybe...I guess so...
At twice the price.
RE: Sweet...
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: Sweet...
hmm...
RE: PalmOne?
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
PalmOne?
If this is recent, it look like the Hollywood and Lowrider may be coming to pass. Also, the conjecture that WM for high-end and FrankyG on low end could be coming true as well according to the spec list.
WiFinally! Miracles do happen in Treoville!
Glad I just got a Cingular 650 ... not. Actually, I knew this was coming, so I'll just eBay it and switch if the Palm OS version is a knockout.
My unanswered Questions:
#1 Screen resolutions look terrible. Did they go back to 160x160?
#2 Why monochrome screens? Is Palm getting cheap or what?
#3 Why Lennon? Does it come with a sample of LSD and 90 day membership to the communist party?
#4 Why did they remove the little handle from the top? That makes it sooo easy to get out of my belt pouch. Maybe it'll be sold as an accessory.
:-D
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: PalmOne?
-More of a focus on style/colors/bling
-Palm will take the basic trappings of the 700P and shoehorn it into a sleeker package. They will also replace the EVDO stack with the "old" EDGE bits from the Treo 650 GSM.
-I would not be surprised if Palm threw in some onboard storage memory and/or bundled an SD card with it. Even a full size headphone jack wouldn't be totally out of the picture. Either that or a hacked BT 1.2 stack with A2DP support for wireless BT headphones. Basically expect Palm to make amends for the lack of UMTS/HSDPA under FrankenGarnet by putting a few cool bits of tech that will appeal to the media savvy younger crowd. I doubt this will be a $200 smartphone...I predict $300 w/ 2 year contract, essentially slotting into the spot vacated by the outgoing Treo 650. To hit $200 would require Treo 600 & Z22 type screen and RAM technology.
-The final "classic" Palm OS model to be released aside from perhaps a final PDA model (TX2 or T|E3) alongside the new Treos in the fall.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: PalmOne?
Why did they remove the little handle from the top?
Funny!
You joke but I've been carrying a RAZR around for a while instead of my i500 just to see what everyone else is experiencing and guess what: the lack of an antenna stub is *infuriating*! I don't want it jangling around with my change in my pocket so I use a holster, but I can't get the damned thing out of the holster when it rings because there's nothing to grab. The Samsung is so easy to flip out and pop open.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PalmOne?
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PalmOne?
Traveling in continental Europe and using a friend's cellphone made me aware of the astounding differences in cellular coverage & overall quality between here & there.
I bet more people will get excited over the sleekness & styling of the Nitro UMTS/HSDPA high-speed access.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: PalmOne?
The RAZR is near perfection form-factor wise.
That's what everyone says and I thought it might be the case when I first palmed one, but after a month or so I've decided that the form is much more of a liability than a benefit for me. It's awkward to open and hold, it's hard to get the earpiece centered enough on your ear to hear the call (partly a problem of insufficient volume), and the total lack of contour on the flat dialing keypad makes it impossible to use without looking at the phone. I'm obviously in a minority, but I find it hard to understand why people think this is a usable form factor. Pretty as jewelry, perhaps, but not usable as a phone.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Are they dropping the Treo brand?
The other question: are these codenames - Lennon sounds kinda stupid, although Nitro is pretty cool - and if not, will they still be known as Treos, or just as Palms?
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: PalmOne?
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
RE: PalmOne?
I'm pretty sure it's not going to be UMTS. Which is why hkklife was referring to Palm having to "make amends."
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PalmOne?
As to the RAZR, David, I agree: it's formfactor is pretty but it's not a particular great phone. A very overrated device.
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: PalmOne?
Has anyone else noticed that PIC is a little erratic in how quickly it displays new posts?
As far as I can tell the server makes a timestamp at the time you click the "Reply to this comment" button and uses that to sort the comments in a thread (as opposed to setting the timestamp when you click "Post Comment"). So if you're TVoR and spend two or three hours laboriously composing a 65 line post there may have had a few others post in the interim. When you actually hit "Post Comment" your comment could be inserted above those others.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PalmOne?
Buy yourself a Krusell leather/elastic case. I've got one for my Motorola v360, and it's great. You can leave the phone in all the time, and it's form-fitting, so you don't have to deal with slippage.
RE: PalmOne?
and the total lack of contour on the flat dialing keypad makes it impossible to use without looking at the phone
Were you comparing this to the Treo or other mobile phones? I am assuming other phones as the Treo is completely impossible to use without looking at it. Sometimes it is even tough to use while looking at it :)
RE: PalmOne?
Were you comparing [the RAZR] to the Treo or other mobile phones? I am assuming other phones as the Treo is completely impossible to use without looking at it. Sometimes it is even tough to use while looking at it :)
Exactly. I have the same beef with the Treo. I sacrifice too much "phone" to get my "smart" OS. The Samsung i500 (which I mentioned is my usual Palm OS smartphone) doesn't have this problem because it has a nice 12-button keypad with fat, raised buttons.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PalmOne?
As a touch-typist, my Treo's thumboard makes it easy to use without looking at it. There's a notch on "F" key that makes it dead simple to find your location. If you've got contacts in your Favourites with a keyboard letter as the shortcut, it's a cinch. IMHO.
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: PalmOne?
".... I doubt this will be a $200 smartphone...I predict $300 w/ 2 year contract, essentially slotting into the spot vacated by the outgoing Treo 650. To hit $200 would require Treo 600 & Z22 type screen and RAM technology....."
I guess you are talking about the MSRP, right? Because Amazon is offering Verizon Treo 700P at $299 after rebate. I truly hope there will be a $200 smartphone, for street price at least.
By the way, could somebody explain me why that PalmOS can not handle mutitasking stops 3G support? Treo 700P does support EVDO and it runs on PalmOS, why UTMS/HSDPA makes difference?
RE: PalmOne?
Pat Horne
RE: PalmOne?
On a related note, CompUSA stores are now selling unlocked GSM phones. I saw a few Nokias, SLVR and a RAZR there last week. Maybe a sign of things to come for th retail cell phone market?
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: PalmOne?
Basically, I think the requirement is that it be able to run and control concurrent data and voice streams without either being interrupted. And yeah, barring currently unsupported hacks or pretty dramatic changes, I don't see Garnet as capable of doing that.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PalmOne?
RE: PalmOne?
EVDO may be faster, but its not more advanced. Only the next revision of EVDO will have simultaneous voice and data.
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
RE: PalmOne?
EV-DO is from the CDMA2000 family of standards. It theory it supports data speeds of up to 2.5mbps, but most users seem to report about 300-700kbps data rates. It is limited to a 1.25mhz carrier signal. Does not currently support simultaneous voice and data, but that will change with Revision A which will also boost the on-paper data rate to 3.1mbps.
Original Flavour UMTS is a GSM standard limited to 384kbps, but allows simultaneous voice and data (provided you've got total UMTS coverage and there aren't any standard GSM towers lurking about). UMTS uses a 5mhz carrier for it's signal, which means it can handle greater numbers of users better than EVDO which in theory should allow for better average data rates for users.
HSPDA Flavour UMTS could and sometimes is called 3.5G. Pretty much any carrier who supports UMTS will have devices that support it. In theory it operates at 3.6mbs, but I haven't read much about such devices and thus couldn't tell you what the real-world results would be like.
In short: don't believe the American telcos BS about CDMA fool you. It's a decent but inferior technology and GSM has been the obvious global winner for quite some time now.
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: PalmOne?
This place needs an edit function. *Please* give us an edit function!
RE: PalmOne?
That's not entirely true. Garnet is a fully multitasking OS, and one of the best microkernels out there. It is fully capable of doing such a task.
However, none of the smartphones do use their core OS for typical phone tasks, they usually throw in another CPU, and let the smartphone OS send Hayes-like modem commands to the phone CPU.
RE: PalmOne?
The problem isn't the kernel, which as you point out is perfectly capable of multitasking. The problem is the framework the Palm OS runs on top of the kernel. The UI application shell runs all applications as a subroutine of a single UI event loop. If it were easy to make this architecture compliant with the UMTS standard I'm sure Palm would have done it by now. One possibility (short of developing a new OS, which is what they are doing) would be to create a separate framework just for the telephony application. Then they'd have to hack in some kind of interprocess communication to get the phone to play nice with the Palm OS (which, after all, is supposed to be the Treo's strong suit, right?)
This is just my impression from what I know as a Palm OS application developer of several years. I'm not an OS architect but I keep waiting for one to come along and set me straight on this and it never seems to happen.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PalmOne?
RE: PalmOne?
That's my understanding of it.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Bottom line: PalmOS 5 + 'real' telephony multitasking don't mix.
Cobalt is what Palm needed... TWO YEARS AGO. Trying to scale back the ambitious plans of Cobalt and producing a stripped-down PalmLinux also makes little sense other than the need to once again have ownership of the OS.
Not named 'Hollywood'? I'm shocked.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Not named 'Hollywood'? I'm shocked.
RE: Not named 'Hollywood'? I'm shocked.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Finally!
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
Looks like we will have to chose between using our Macs or Palm OS but not both if we want the new 3G features. If so I don't see any reason to stay with Palm.
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
It certainly seems that way right now. Remember, PalmOS Garnet goes back years and years and years. It's a very basic OS compared to the infinitely more complex Windows Mobile, and UMTS requires some fancy multi-tasking that poor old FrankyG just can't handle. (David's good at explaining this one.)
But fear not! As hklife has been speculated, it's likely that Palm will throw in some extras to make up for the lack of 3G.
In fact, with some of the ridiculously high wireless data charges you'll find (at least here in Australia), no 3G may be a blessing in disguise for your wallet. ;)
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
I have an unlimited data plan, but you have a world class soccer team, so I guess it's a draw : )
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
If you're like me and just looking for the same superlative functionality the Treo 650 offered, possibly with a few new bells and whistles like extra memory, built-in A2DP and a sleeker formfactor, then Nitro looks like it will meet all your needs and then some.
As for our soccer team... it's a shame our World Cup matches didn't have world-class referees to go with them. ;)
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
As a smartphone is just a pda and phone, having a crippled ability to acess the internet, both by not having wifi and or 3g data speeds is rediculous.
Not if it's aiming for the low end of the smartphone spectrum (like folks who want to graduate up from a Nokia S60 phone).
Any way, "crippled" is a bit melodramatic. Personally, I've been reasonably happy with 1XRTT and EDGE data rates on my Palm OS phones since 2001. My complaints about the Treos are that I wish they were (1) more usable phones, and (2) more stable PDAs, not that they were better Internet devices. When I can get all-you-can-eat 3G data for less than $40/mo I might be interested in 3G, but for now I'd rather see Palm put out some Treos that address my other concerns.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
Heck, I'd trade up the whole PHONE portion of the 700P in exchange for a EVDO cellular data-enabled TX.
Palm, are you listening? Come up with something that's halfway between a TX and a LifeDrive. Take out the HD & wi-fi and put in a cellular radio EVDO modem. Give it the Treo's removable battery. Keep it 320*480 and don't leave out the screen rotate button, charge LED and voice recorder. With at least 128mb RAM & plenty of DBCache, with maybe 512mb internal storage drive for good measure, that thing could manufactured im small numbers and sold to power users/vertical markets and be a sort of cult hit/high margin device. Spun propertly it could even be billed as a "mobile manager"
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
Meantime, I don't seem to be alone in feeling that there is still a lot Palm could do to make a better Garnet Treo, even without 3G data, which if you haven't noticed, hasn't exactly been taking the world by storm in terms of people actually using it.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
True, crying isn't going to change anything; taking my business elsewhere will. Paln os 6.1 was supposedly ready in "04 and reputed to be able to handle wifi and 3G. "sometime next Year" "should be hatching" dosen't pay the bills. You're okay with 1X? G-D bless you. For the rest of us, paying for old technology that palm "could" improve is just silly when there are clearly other compayies moving ahead. And I'm looking at Windows Mobile Treos. If I have to change os there are MANY options out there with superior product, in my opinion. Anyone know what exactly happened to 6.1?
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
Exactly two if you live in the Western hemisphere: Windows Mobile 5.0 and Symbian (UIQ or S60). Elsewhere (mostly Asia) you've got various Linux "smartphone" OSes.
If you say you don't like Windows Mobile I doubt you'll find the other options "superior."
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
Cervezas said:
"Meantime, I don't seem to be alone in feeling that there is still a lot Palm could do to make a better Garnet Treo, even without 3G data, which if you haven't noticed, hasn't exactly been taking the world by storm in terms of people actually using it."
You mean sales, David, or people actually using the Treo to it's full potential and not just as a glorified address book? I think Palm should consider including some kind of tutorial DVD with the products, that explores every inch of the device and names a few good third-party sites to try additional software.
Luria said:
"paying for old technology that palm "could" improve is just silly"
That's the sticking point, dude: they *can't* improve it. The UMTS international standard requires a phone be able to handle voice and data simultaneously. PalmOS 5 just can't do that without a near-complete rewrite - effort that would be better spent working on the new PalmOS. (I gather from reading others around here.)
As for PalmOS 6, ask The Voice of Reason. And get some popcorn. ;)
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
Official story of Palm OS Cobalt
The decision to move to Linux meant that they didn't have to maintain a proprietary kernel and they didn't have to develop all the drivers and support software in-house. They could focus on adding value through the application framework and user interface. I don't know if it's true or not, but I've been told that devices are quite different from PCs in that many mobile device components get Linux drivers written for them before any other drivers are developed. There does seem to be a pretty good ecosystem that's developed for this.
As Tim indicated, others have given more colorful and fanciful explanations of Cobalt's demise. Certainly there's probably more to the story, but this much makes pretty good sense to me.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
Ahem.
PalmOS 6 ("Cobalt") was a mighty fine OS.
Bwahahahah!
TVoR
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
Pat Horne
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
David's explanation makes a fair bit of sense too.
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
Forgive me, Rev. Cobalt's been beaten down so badly over the past three years that I just couldn't bring myself to offering anything but a little sarcasm. My PalmSource biotches (Hello DK!) blew 3 years on the Cobalt Catastrophe and Palm is now off on another desperate wild goose chase with the clock about to run out and no remaining time outs.
To be honest, Palm may have been be better off sticking with Cobalt and trying to fix the telephony and stability issues over time. Compatibility is screwed no matter what they do to create a next-generation OS from now on, anyway, so why not make a (relatively) clean break from the shackles of the Old PalmOS? Furthermore, mobile device CPU speeds are getting to the point that Cobalt would no longer run like a drunken two-legged dog, so Palm could have allowed technology to compensate for their own incompetence (following Microsoft's lead).
At this stage it appears that PalmOS is down for the count and will be relegated to lower end devices until it's completely phased out. Windows Mobile + StyleTap Platform accomplishes more (with MUCH less effort) than anything Palm is capable of coming up with on their own. Unfortunately, the failure to innovate on Handspring's groundbreaking Treo 600 design is about to bite Palm in the a$$. Nokia, Sony Ericsson, HTC, etc are producing better quality, less expensive, better featured, and more stylish cellphones than Palm can put out, so the Treo gravy train will soon come to a screeching halt. With Palm now completely dependent upon carriers, all it will take is for Sprint, etc to decide to go with a cheaper competitor over the Treos and Palm's revenues dry up overnight.
Palm needs to get bought out by a company with the resources to produce significantly new cellphones at a rate competitive with the rest of the industry (every 6 - 12 months rather than Palm's 24 - 36 month development cycle). Rumor has it that Palm has been courting suitors aggressively. Only problem is that Palm has very little to offer traditional cellphone companies and there are not many companies that would be a good fit with Palm. Plus, the "push" email feature now being built into Microsoft Exchange + Windows Mobile devices removes one of Palm's potential selling points. But looking at how craptastic RIM's hardware is, wouldn't it be interesting to see a "Treo 750" with much better specs + build quality integrating with RIM's email server software? Treo and RIM have good name recognition with business customers right now, but their business models are both very vulnerable to attack from Microsoft, carriers + cellphone handset manufacturers. If Palm had control over its own OS (whether that was a freshly rolled "PalmLinux" or a debugged version of Cobalt purchased outright from Access for say $35 million) and was bought out by RIM, both companies might survive longterm. Otherwise, both Palm and RIM are TOAST within 2 years.
TVoR's bold prediction: Palm gets bought out by RIM before the end of 2006. Less likely is a buyout from a silly, wealthy company like Yahoo or Google looking to hit the ground running with the current gold standard for smartphones + good brand recognition among business users. (Wouldn't a modified Treo 700p make a solid starting point for the GOOGLEPORT™ - Google's handheld device for the masses that will soon be serving up GoogleNet™? Hmmmm....)
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8336/#117669
Copyright, 2006. All rights reserved.
TVoR
(Author. Pundit. Connoisseur. Visionary. Lover of all things hackbod.)
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
This makes total sense.
> ...Only problem is that Palm has very little to offer traditional
> cellphone companies...
PALM outsources EVERYTHING - when a company outsources everything, what's there to buy?
The thought of RIM buying PALM is interesting. More likely, IMHO< to merge with HTC, though.
HTC - now THERE'S an interesting company! And they do everything IN-HOUSE!
Giggle.
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
== "...more likely for RIM to merge with HTC...".
Palm(job) + RIM(job): real soon now. Yes! Yes! Yesssss!!!
RIM makes the most sense; cash-rich Yahoo, etc are longer shots. I can guarantee you that without a buyout, Palm is DEAD within a couple years (and RIM soon after). I predicted the Handspring merger, the PalmSource sale and my streak will continue when Palm announces it is being bought out this Fall.
Bookmark this post. It's like gold in the bank, Baby. Pure gold...
TVoR
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
If you have to have 3G data speeds, Palm OS will not be an option until they can figure out how to finish their new OS version.
However, just because you switch to WM5 to get 3G doesn't mean you have to ditch the Mac. Missing Sync has a new verison available for download that nicely syncs windows mobile devices with iCal, Address Book, Entourage, etc on a Mac.
I have been a Mac user for a while now (work still makes me use Windows but my home is Mac) and I used to be a faithful Palm OS user. However, I evetually had to reluctantly switch to windows mobile due to many of the limitations that have been discussed here. (ie, I needed to be able to run multiple applications at once, connect over a VPN, push email with Exchange Server, and simultaneously talk on the phone while accessing our corporate website)
At first I thought I would hate windows mobile, but I found that it was capable of doing everything my Palm did and more. And there are now a ton of add on software available as well.
Once Missing Sync added the ability to sync with Macs, there was no going back. I can't imagine going back to Palm now. It took a little while to get used to some of the navigation differences, but once acclimated I found that I actually liked some of the items better than Palms methods. I still have my old Treo 650 and when I get nostalgic I start it up to play with it. But it seems so antiquated now that I have gotten used to the features in windows mobile.
A big feature that I am still amazed that Palm has not integrated into their OS yet is a Today screen. It is so nice having a home screen like the desktop on your computer that shows date and time, upcoming appointments and tasks, emails, text messages, etc. You can even get cheap plug ins like Pocket Breeze to show weather forecasts, and other items. It's like widgets on my Mac dashboard. You can also just start typing any name or number from the home screen and it automatically searches all my contacts to find all possible matches for however many characters I typed. Then I just select the one I want. It shows all possible phone numbers and email addresses and lets me choose whether to call a number, send a email, text message, or multiledia message. All from the today screen without ever having to go into the contacts list.
This is where I get really frustrated with Palm. If their OS can't do luti tasking, Wi Fi, or 3G, OK. I guess they need time to upgrade the OS. But a today screen and nice dialer interface are basic functions of a smartphone that they could easily put into their existing OS. To make matters worse, when they came out with their 700w windows mobile version, not only did they support all of these features but they made them better by adding a web search window onto the today screen, as well as picture and speed dialing to the today screen. Those are things they could have done in their own OS but didn't for some reason. And when they released the 700p 5 months after the 700w, it STILL didn't have these basic features they added to their windows version.
So don't worry too much about going to "the dark side". After some trepidation, I now feel like I am using the best of both worlds! Macs and WM5 is a unlikely match, but it works great!
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
My windows mobile device has not had to be reset even once in the 4 months I've had it. My Treo had to be reset nearly every week. NOT an exaggeration! The screen also constantly would get off center with the stylus and have to be re-aligned. These two problems have been the case with every Palm device I've owned, not just the Treos. So far I have not seen either of these issues with my windows device at all.
I hate to admit this because I hate microsoft. As I said in the last post I am a huge Mac fan and feel that Windows is a disaster. But I'm learning that my distaste for MS is PC related, not their mobile devices. Until Steve Jobs decides to make a true Apple PDA phone, WM5 is the best thing out there by far. (I used a blackberry recently as well and that's even worse than Palm!)
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
The Treo's Phone screen shows date and time, your next upcoming calendar event and the number of unread text messages and emails in your inbox. It also forgoes the stuff like weather forecasts in favour of a large on-screen dial pad (which I quietly consider vastly more useful on a phone). It's clean, simple and has none of the clutter of the bloated WinMob Today screen. And anything you like can be assigned a keyboard letter on the Favourites menu - web page links, email/msging recipients, Palm apps - so you've got 26 different shortcuts right there. And if we're going to venture into the realm of cheap plug-ins, there are a couple of launchers for PalmOS that can do the same job as the Today screen.
You can also just start typing any name or number from the home screen and it automatically searches all my contacts to find all possible matches for however many characters I typed. Then I just select the one I want. It shows all possible phone numbers and email addresses and lets me choose whether to call a number, send a email, text message, or multiledia message. All from the today screen without ever having to go into the contacts list.
The 650 and 700 both do the exactly same thing, except typing brings up the Contacts app instead of staying on the phone screen. Cosmetic issue, I guess. The 700 has this "search contacts from a drop-down list" behaivour in it's improved messaging app, though, which is a zillion times better than the neutered one included on the 700w.
But a today screen and nice dialer interface are basic functions of a smartphone that they could easily put into their existing OS. To make matters worse, when they came out with their 700w windows mobile version, not only did they support all of these features but they made them better by adding a web search window onto the today screen, as well as picture and speed dialing to the today screen. Those are things they could have done in their own OS but didn't for some reason. (emphasis mine) And when they released the 700p 5 months after the 700w, it STILL didn't have these basic features they added to their windows version.
One of two reasons I guess: (1) Palm are lazy and complacent, which is quite likely the case, or (2) The Today screen looks pretty but really isn't all that useful. Given that on a handheld device all of your information is ideally only one or two buttons away, and that you also have a very limited amount of screen real estate, what's the point of showing snapshots of all that stuff that's only a button away instead of dedicating the screen to its primary function: being a phone app.
Sorry if I sound overly aggressive and zealot-y and nitpicky and pedantical ;) here. There are many valid reasons why WinMob is technically superior to PalmOS. But personally, I find the Today screen to exemplify everything that's wrong about Microsoft's approach to handheld design.
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
I, admittedly, am confused.
Should I just start...you know...hopping for foot to foot, too?
=======
Yeah, we "know" =a= GSM TREO is coming because some Microsoft weenie Who Should Know said so. But isn't that really it?
RE: I, admittedly, am confused.
That being the case, it's a reasonable jump of logic to assume that there will also be a GSM Palm OS Treo at some point, to counter the existing 700p. Now, we get a report of two GSM Treos coming out on Cingular later this year.
So yes, it's mostly supposition filled in with a couple low-quality pictures and the words of an anonymous source. However, it makes a certain amount of sense, so people get excited.
Cingular stores have brochures with pictures?
A user in the board explains:
"I went into my local Cingular store to look at upgrading my Treo 600 to a 650 (since they're now selling the 650 for $199). I questioned if the price reduction was in anticipation of a new Treo coming out. The Cingular rep pulled out the laminated tri-fold page that had all the Cingular phones on it, including future phones.
It showed an MS-powered Treo with Wi-fi, called Lennon, due out in October. It also showed a Palm-powered version WITHOUT Wi-fi, called Nitro, also due out in October. It included pictures of the phones, and they didn't look like a 700. I'm assuming that in the months since the 700 was released (and a GSM version was being developed), other changes were made. I'll bet it will be called something other than the 700."
"
Lennon and Nitro being pulled
Before the Palm-loyal Microsoft-haters get to crying too much, though, they can indulge in a bit of schadenfreude over this comment by the sales rep: "Windows Mobile 5.0 is a disaster. We get more of the [Cingular] 2125s and 8125s returned than everything else in the store combined."
So there you have it. My fun evening at the Cingular store in Colorado Springs.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
God, I hope so...
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
Well, I figure you never know when you're talking to one of these sales people. But he gave me the definite impression that the two Treos were off the roadmap for the time being.
What do you care, kangaroo boy? You don't have Cingular down under anyway, do you? Who knows what (if anything) this means about when these phones are released elsewhere.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
schadenfreude??? Are you edumacated, Beersy?
And guess what? Nokia, Sony Ericsson etc will be releasing their phones exactly as scheduled. Palm is about to learn the hard way that there is no room for amateurs in the handset industry. The Treo-derived halo effect that Palm is still milking won't last forever (or even another year, for that matter)...
TVoR
RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
Giggle.
Now THAT'S entertainment!
RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
-- http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/tech/telecom/10295376.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA
and I have been blithely reading and responding to that discussion w.r.t. SONS.
But...BOING!...isn't this possibly relevant to PALM as well?
What's the topic of this sub-thread?
The plot sickens...
RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
freakout's Law of Australian Release Dates: anything worth having is *at least* three months behind the U.S. and about $100-200 more expensive. ;)
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
Maybe they are trying to keep the # of Cingular-branded (this kind of thing is very costly) releases (new product/advertising/literature/signage etc.) to a minimum between this fall and whenever the at&t push begins (summer '07)?
Perhaps the 700W is going to quickly be put out to pasture and Verizon is going to get a CDMA version of the Lennon launched simultaneously alongside the GSM variants?
OR......Palm's really gonna hedge their bets and launch the new WinMob GSM Treo in EUROPEAN markets prior to launching Stateside!?! Hmmm....
Won't the Q be seeing a pricedrop in the next few months? And isn't the Canary (RAZR successor) coming by year's end to satisfy the dumbphone market? Even with Nokia bailing on CDMA handsets, Palm is going to see, as TVoR stated, some brutal competition in the smartphone sector beginning this fall and going throughout next year (and this is just what the current roadmaps are showing).
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
No, there was talk about them retaining the right to sell service under the AT&T brand if they so chose, but they're not actually going to go as far as renaming the company.
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