Comments on: New Treos on Cingular in October?

Rumor: Engadget has obtained information showing the possible launch details for two new Palm Treo models. The document shows small pictures of two devices called the Palm Lennon and Palm Nitro and lists release dates for Cingular in October.
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Sweet...

goat_fajitas @ 6/27/2006 3:18:40 PM # Q
I can't wait. Hopefully will be a bit thinner too.

RE: Sweet...
Timothy Rapson @ 6/27/2006 9:53:24 PM # Q
They better be thinner, cheaper, quicker, and offer better battery life. The competition is getting fierce in the SmartPhone arena.
Motorola has really gone after this market with some killer products. Hope Treo can step up to the task.

RE: Sweet...
cervezas @ 6/27/2006 10:10:26 PM # Q
Timothy Rapson wrote:
Motorola has really gone after this market with some killer products.

Like what? The Q? Have you tried using a Motorola Q?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Sweet...
freakout @ 6/27/2006 10:26:12 PM # Q
"better battery life"

Erm, is that a joke? The Treo has a bloody fantastic battery life currently; it's certainly streets ahead of your usual dumbphone/iPod.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: Sweet...
SeldomVisitor @ 6/28/2006 7:15:51 AM # Q
The "specs" say that one model of the TREO gets about 4.5 hours of talk time and the Q gets about 4 hours.

Streets ahead?

Yeah...maybe...I guess so...

At twice the price.

RE: Sweet...
freakout @ 6/28/2006 7:33:20 AM # Q
And thrice the quality. :P

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: Sweet...
scstraus2 @ 6/28/2006 5:16:40 PM # Q
If the PalmOS one doesn't have UMTS I'm not getting it. I'll keep my 650 or go elsewhere. Why won't Palm just give me a nice high end GSM phone running PalmOS? I'll pay top dollar, just give me the damn thing. No, I'm not going to Windows Mobile. And if I do it won't be a Palm device. If palm forces me to switch to Windows Mobile, they will have lost me as a customer for good.

Reply to this comment

hmm...

medevilenemy @ 6/27/2006 3:44:28 PM # Q
Any hints as to what OS the Nitro may run? Is it possible that it might run the rumored PalmOS Linux being developed by Palm Itself?

RE: hmm...
AdamaDBrown @ 6/27/2006 4:44:42 PM # Q
Most likely it's the same as the 700p.

Reply to this comment

PalmOne?

SeldomVisitor @ 6/27/2006 4:54:47 PM # Q
.

RE: PalmOne?
cervezas @ 6/27/2006 5:08:55 PM # Q
Haven't you heard? They spun off their Windows Mobile group.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PalmOne?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/27/2006 6:02:46 PM # Q
Giggle.

Reply to this comment

PalmOne?

LiveFaith @ 6/27/2006 5:03:02 PM # Q
"PalmOne" brings into question, the date of the document. Could the plans have changed from "last year" etc? Will the maroon and yellow P1 beast arise from the ashes? Was someone at CNG just confused (rightfully so) about who the heck makes the Treo anyway?

If this is recent, it look like the Hollywood and Lowrider may be coming to pass. Also, the conjecture that WM for high-end and FrankyG on low end could be coming true as well according to the spec list.

WiFinally! Miracles do happen in Treoville!

Glad I just got a Cingular 650 ... not. Actually, I knew this was coming, so I'll just eBay it and switch if the Palm OS version is a knockout.


My unanswered Questions:
#1 Screen resolutions look terrible. Did they go back to 160x160?
#2 Why monochrome screens? Is Palm getting cheap or what?
#3 Why Lennon? Does it come with a sample of LSD and 90 day membership to the communist party?
#4 Why did they remove the little handle from the top? That makes it sooo easy to get out of my belt pouch. Maybe it'll be sold as an accessory.
:-D


Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: PalmOne?
hkklife @ 6/27/2006 5:21:28 PM # Q
My predictions (aside from more pain?) for Lowrider/Nitro:

-More of a focus on style/colors/bling

-Palm will take the basic trappings of the 700P and shoehorn it into a sleeker package. They will also replace the EVDO stack with the "old" EDGE bits from the Treo 650 GSM.

-I would not be surprised if Palm threw in some onboard storage memory and/or bundled an SD card with it. Even a full size headphone jack wouldn't be totally out of the picture. Either that or a hacked BT 1.2 stack with A2DP support for wireless BT headphones. Basically expect Palm to make amends for the lack of UMTS/HSDPA under FrankenGarnet by putting a few cool bits of tech that will appeal to the media savvy younger crowd. I doubt this will be a $200 smartphone...I predict $300 w/ 2 year contract, essentially slotting into the spot vacated by the outgoing Treo 650. To hit $200 would require Treo 600 & Z22 type screen and RAM technology.

-The final "classic" Palm OS model to be released aside from perhaps a final PDA model (TX2 or T|E3) alongside the new Treos in the fall.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: PalmOne?
cervezas @ 6/27/2006 5:26:50 PM # Q
LiveFaith wrote:
Why did they remove the little handle from the top?

Funny!

You joke but I've been carrying a RAZR around for a while instead of my i500 just to see what everyone else is experiencing and guess what: the lack of an antenna stub is *infuriating*! I don't want it jangling around with my change in my pocket so I use a holster, but I can't get the damned thing out of the holster when it rings because there's nothing to grab. The Samsung is so easy to flip out and pop open.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PalmOne?
cervezas @ 6/27/2006 5:40:21 PM # Q
I think hkklife has got it exactly right, at least as far as Nitro is concerned: a little thinner and sleeker, EDGE radio, and a few goodies like more storage and better BT to make up for the lack of UMTS networking.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PalmOne?
hkklife @ 6/27/2006 5:53:32 PM # Q
The RAZR is near perfection form-factor wise. I detest external antennae. If I had GOOD GSM coverage around me, a v3i + a TX would be near perfection. Unfortunately, I do not so it's a Verizon Treo 700P for the time being.

Traveling in continental Europe and using a friend's cellphone made me aware of the astounding differences in cellular coverage & overall quality between here & there.

I bet more people will get excited over the sleekness & styling of the Nitro UMTS/HSDPA high-speed access.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: PalmOne?
cervezas @ 6/27/2006 6:10:35 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
The RAZR is near perfection form-factor wise.

That's what everyone says and I thought it might be the case when I first palmed one, but after a month or so I've decided that the form is much more of a liability than a benefit for me. It's awkward to open and hold, it's hard to get the earpiece centered enough on your ear to hear the call (partly a problem of insufficient volume), and the total lack of contour on the flat dialing keypad makes it impossible to use without looking at the phone. I'm obviously in a minority, but I find it hard to understand why people think this is a usable form factor. Pretty as jewelry, perhaps, but not usable as a phone.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Are they dropping the Treo brand?
freakout @ 6/27/2006 6:14:44 PM # Q
^^ Are we sure Nitro is going to be UMTS? If it's running Garnet, it'll probably have the same tech problems as before that were preventing a GSM 700p, right? Shame really, 'cause I'm certainly getting one.

The other question: are these codenames - Lennon sounds kinda stupid, although Nitro is pretty cool - and if not, will they still be known as Treos, or just as Palms?

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: PalmOne?
Surur @ 6/27/2006 6:15:14 PM # Q
From the leaked pictures, the GSM Treos will be slightly thinner, but not markedly so. Certainly not enough to call them sleek (Like Razr or Q sleek).

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: PalmOne?
cervezas @ 6/27/2006 6:27:05 PM # Q
Are we sure Nitro is going to be UMTS?

I'm pretty sure it's not going to be UMTS. Which is why hkklife was referring to Palm having to "make amends."


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PalmOne?
freakout @ 6/27/2006 7:43:30 PM # Q
Whoops, missed that post. Has anyone else noticed that PIC is a little erratic in how quickly it displays new posts? I can read an article one day and make a post, and then come back to read mine and see that three new ones appeared in the tree above it overnight. Weird.

As to the RAZR, David, I agree: it's formfactor is pretty but it's not a particular great phone. A very overrated device.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: PalmOne?
cervezas @ 6/27/2006 8:01:30 PM # Q
freakout wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that PIC is a little erratic in how quickly it displays new posts?

As far as I can tell the server makes a timestamp at the time you click the "Reply to this comment" button and uses that to sort the comments in a thread (as opposed to setting the timestamp when you click "Post Comment"). So if you're TVoR and spend two or three hours laboriously composing a 65 line post there may have had a few others post in the interim. When you actually hit "Post Comment" your comment could be inserted above those others.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PalmOne?
AdamaDBrown @ 6/27/2006 8:06:13 PM # Q
You joke but I've been carrying a RAZR around for a while instead of my i500 just to see what everyone else is experiencing and guess what: the lack of an antenna stub is *infuriating*! I don't want it jangling around with my change in my pocket so I use a holster, but I can't get the damned thing out of the holster when it rings because there's nothing to grab. The Samsung is so easy to flip out and pop open.

Buy yourself a Krusell leather/elastic case. I've got one for my Motorola v360, and it's great. You can leave the phone in all the time, and it's form-fitting, so you don't have to deal with slippage.

RE: PalmOne?
gbrinkman @ 6/27/2006 9:23:17 PM # Q
cervezas wrote about the Razr:
and the total lack of contour on the flat dialing keypad makes it impossible to use without looking at the phone

Were you comparing this to the Treo or other mobile phones? I am assuming other phones as the Treo is completely impossible to use without looking at it. Sometimes it is even tough to use while looking at it :)


RE: PalmOne?
cervezas @ 6/27/2006 9:46:30 PM # Q
gbrinkman wrote:
Were you comparing [the RAZR] to the Treo or other mobile phones? I am assuming other phones as the Treo is completely impossible to use without looking at it. Sometimes it is even tough to use while looking at it :)

Exactly. I have the same beef with the Treo. I sacrifice too much "phone" to get my "smart" OS. The Samsung i500 (which I mentioned is my usual Palm OS smartphone) doesn't have this problem because it has a nice 12-button keypad with fat, raised buttons.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PalmOne?
freakout @ 6/27/2006 10:20:58 PM # Q
^^ Oh, you big babies! :P

As a touch-typist, my Treo's thumboard makes it easy to use without looking at it. There's a notch on "F" key that makes it dead simple to find your location. If you've got contacts in your Favourites with a keyboard letter as the shortcut, it's a cinch. IMHO.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: PalmOne?
vixensjlin @ 6/27/2006 10:43:56 PM # Q
hkklife @ 6/27/2006 5:21:28 wrote
".... I doubt this will be a $200 smartphone...I predict $300 w/ 2 year contract, essentially slotting into the spot vacated by the outgoing Treo 650. To hit $200 would require Treo 600 & Z22 type screen and RAM technology....."

I guess you are talking about the MSRP, right? Because Amazon is offering Verizon Treo 700P at $299 after rebate. I truly hope there will be a $200 smartphone, for street price at least.

By the way, could somebody explain me why that PalmOS can not handle mutitasking stops 3G support? Treo 700P does support EVDO and it runs on PalmOS, why UTMS/HSDPA makes difference?

RE: PalmOne?
LiveFaith @ 6/28/2006 1:38:09 AM # Q
Dave bail me out here, but UMTS requires the ability to switch radios mid-stream if I'm not mistaken. FrankyG just aint going there.

Pat Horne
RE: PalmOne?
hkklife @ 6/28/2006 10:11:59 AM # Q
I was referring to Nitro's launch pricing by the carriers themselves, not resellers who offer huge rebates that usualy fail to materialize (Amazon, Chinatown cell shops etc). I'd expect the Nitro to be still positioned price-wise above the Q (at least where Verizon is pricing the CDMA Q now) due primarily to the flexibility of the platform and its touchscreen.

On a related note, CompUSA stores are now selling unlocked GSM phones. I saw a few Nokias, SLVR and a RAZR there last week. Maybe a sign of things to come for th retail cell phone market?



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: PalmOne?
cervezas @ 6/28/2006 10:19:19 AM # Q
Dave bail me out here, but UMTS requires the ability to switch radios mid-stream if I'm not mistaken. FrankyG just aint going there.

Basically, I think the requirement is that it be able to run and control concurrent data and voice streams without either being interrupted. And yeah, barring currently unsupported hacks or pretty dramatic changes, I don't see Garnet as capable of doing that.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PalmOne?
vixensjlin @ 6/29/2006 3:52:24 AM # Q
That's strange. The UMTS standard requires a phone be able to handle voice and data simultaneously, but EVDO does not? I thought EVDO is more advanced and quicker than UMTS.

RE: PalmOne?
Surur @ 6/29/2006 5:04:24 AM # Q

EVDO may be faster, but its not more advanced. Only the next revision of EVDO will have simultaneous voice and data.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: PalmOne?
freakout @ 6/29/2006 6:06:48 AM # Q
It goes (very, very roughly) like this:

EV-DO is from the CDMA2000 family of standards. It theory it supports data speeds of up to 2.5mbps, but most users seem to report about 300-700kbps data rates. It is limited to a 1.25mhz carrier signal. Does not currently support simultaneous voice and data, but that will change with Revision A which will also boost the on-paper data rate to 3.1mbps.

Original Flavour UMTS is a GSM standard limited to 384kbps, but allows simultaneous voice and data (provided you've got total UMTS coverage and there aren't any standard GSM towers lurking about). UMTS uses a 5mhz carrier for it's signal, which means it can handle greater numbers of users better than EVDO which in theory should allow for better average data rates for users.

HSPDA Flavour UMTS could and sometimes is called 3.5G. Pretty much any carrier who supports UMTS will have devices that support it. In theory it operates at 3.6mbs, but I haven't read much about such devices and thus couldn't tell you what the real-world results would be like.

In short: don't believe the American telcos BS about CDMA fool you. It's a decent but inferior technology and GSM has been the obvious global winner for quite some time now.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: PalmOne?
freakout @ 6/29/2006 6:49:11 AM # Q
"In short: don't believe the American telcos BS about CDMA fool you."

This place needs an edit function. *Please* give us an edit function!

RE: PalmOne?
javispedro @ 6/29/2006 8:16:25 AM # Q
Basically, I think the requirement is that it be able to run and control concurrent data and voice streams without either being interrupted. And yeah, barring currently unsupported hacks or pretty dramatic changes, I don't see Garnet as capable of doing that.
That's not entirely true. Garnet is a fully multitasking OS, and one of the best microkernels out there. It is fully capable of doing such a task.
However, none of the smartphones do use their core OS for typical phone tasks, they usually throw in another CPU, and let the smartphone OS send Hayes-like modem commands to the phone CPU.

RE: PalmOne?
cervezas @ 6/29/2006 8:23:37 AM # Q
Garnet is a fully multitasking OS, and one of the best microkernels out there. It is fully capable of doing such a task.

The problem isn't the kernel, which as you point out is perfectly capable of multitasking. The problem is the framework the Palm OS runs on top of the kernel. The UI application shell runs all applications as a subroutine of a single UI event loop. If it were easy to make this architecture compliant with the UMTS standard I'm sure Palm would have done it by now. One possibility (short of developing a new OS, which is what they are doing) would be to create a separate framework just for the telephony application. Then they'd have to hack in some kind of interprocess communication to get the phone to play nice with the Palm OS (which, after all, is supposed to be the Treo's strong suit, right?)

This is just my impression from what I know as a Palm OS application developer of several years. I'm not an OS architect but I keep waiting for one to come along and set me straight on this and it never seems to happen.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PalmOne?
javispedro @ 6/29/2006 6:16:04 PM # Q
I don't really understand what's the UI Thread doing here? This is a low-level issue, AFAIK.

RE: PalmOne?
cervezas @ 6/29/2006 9:56:05 PM # Q
In Palm OS the UIAS task is normally the only task running and it's the only one through which an application has access to system resources like memory for the stack and dynamic heap. So if you're downloading an email with a large attachment, for example, and then press a button to answer an incoming call, the OS must tell the email client to exit and release the memory it was using for the email download. The client (if it's written properly) saves its state in some graceful way to the storage heap and then exits to allow the system to respond to the user's request to answer the call. The email client (if it's smart enough) may be able to resume the data session when relaunched after the call is complete if the connection is preserved--and paused--during the phone conversation. But it can't download the email in the background of the conversation because it's been torn down to launch the phone app. In terms of the UMTS QoS requirements, the fact that the kernel can keep the data session active is irrelevant: what's important is whether the phone can actually transmit and receive application data concurrently with a voice conversation.

That's my understanding of it.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Bottom line: PalmOS 5 + 'real' telephony multitasking don't mix.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/29/2006 11:08:53 PM # Q
Beersy, PalmOS 5 cannot handle simultaneous telephony + app functions because - as you know - this is beyond its original (+ repeatedly hacked) architecture. Rewriting an ancient OS to try and keep up with modern multitasking needs is a pointless exercise. Such an OS would be a horrendous kludge and memory management would create nightmares. Not to mention all of the code development + maintenance Palm's small troupe of codemonkeys would have to perform on an obsolete OS.

Cobalt is what Palm needed... TWO YEARS AGO. Trying to scale back the ambitious plans of Cobalt and producing a stripped-down PalmLinux also makes little sense other than the need to once again have ownership of the OS.

Reply to this comment

Not named 'Hollywood'? I'm shocked.

cervezas @ 6/27/2006 5:20:15 PM # Q
Wow, could Sagio Investments have been more wrong about the upcoming Treos? I mean "Hollywood" and "Lennon" only share one letter in common. Looks like some of us may be owing AdamaDBrown a big apology. ;-)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Not named 'Hollywood'? I'm shocked.
TrafficGeek @ 6/27/2006 5:57:50 PM # Q
acutally, that's two letters in common. There's a "o" in Lennon. (or is it the Lemon?:P )
RE: Not named 'Hollywood'? I'm shocked.
cervezas @ 6/27/2006 6:00:11 PM # Q
Thanks, that makes me feel a little better. ;-)


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

Finally!

freakout @ 6/27/2006 5:49:40 PM # Q
Some good news for us GSM users. Looks like we won't be left out in the cold this year after all.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
Reply to this comment

Lemon?

jfme @ 6/27/2006 6:44:20 PM # Q
I want a Palm Lemon running WM 5.0
Reply to this comment

So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???

luria @ 6/27/2006 10:17:31 PM # Q
So, am I right in assuming that Palm will NOT be releasing a Treo with the Palm OS and UMTS/HSDPA? They can stick MS OS in their units and make it work with 3G but not with their own OS? So to those of us that use Macs and Treos for business are being left to hang?

Looks like we will have to chose between using our Macs or Palm OS but not both if we want the new 3G features. If so I don't see any reason to stay with Palm.

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
freakout @ 6/27/2006 10:54:05 PM # Q
"So, am I right in assuming that Palm will NOT be releasing a Treo with the Palm OS and UMTS/HSDPA? They can stick MS OS in their units and make it work with 3G but not with their own OS?"

It certainly seems that way right now. Remember, PalmOS Garnet goes back years and years and years. It's a very basic OS compared to the infinitely more complex Windows Mobile, and UMTS requires some fancy multi-tasking that poor old FrankyG just can't handle. (David's good at explaining this one.)

But fear not! As hklife has been speculated, it's likely that Palm will throw in some extras to make up for the lack of 3G.

In fact, with some of the ridiculously high wireless data charges you'll find (at least here in Australia), no 3G may be a blessing in disguise for your wallet. ;)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
luria @ 6/27/2006 11:23:17 PM # Q
I can't imagine what "extras" Palm could throw in to make up for a second class unit. A bottle opener might be a nice touch. As a smartphone is just a pda and phone, having a crippled ability to acess the internet, both by not having wifi and or 3g data speeds is rediculous. If they won't put all these features together in one unit running a Palm OS, why in the world would they expect us not to migrate? I mean, if I have to use Microsoft OS, there are much better units out there than palm offers. Don't get me wrong, I love my 650, but I've spent many months and $ on third party software to make it run the way it should have out of the box.
I have an unlimited data plan, but you have a world class soccer team, so I guess it's a draw : )
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
freakout @ 6/27/2006 11:36:03 PM # Q
I suppose it all depends on your definition of "crippled". I was reasonably satisfied with the dialup-esque speeds offered on the 650 when I was on a data plan; but for the serious GSM mobile internet user then a WinMob phone will definitely be the way to go for the next year or two. (Depressingly) At least until Palm release their next-gen OS (or license ALP).

If you're like me and just looking for the same superlative functionality the Treo 650 offered, possibly with a few new bells and whistles like extra memory, built-in A2DP and a sleeker formfactor, then Nitro looks like it will meet all your needs and then some.

As for our soccer team... it's a shame our World Cup matches didn't have world-class referees to go with them. ;)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
meeksomebody @ 6/28/2006 3:49:59 AM # Q
Sigh, don't complain about the referees. Look at Shamsul... Singaporean referee... From the land without the new Treo 700P

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
cervezas @ 6/28/2006 9:56:52 AM # Q
luria wrote:
As a smartphone is just a pda and phone, having a crippled ability to acess the internet, both by not having wifi and or 3g data speeds is rediculous.

Not if it's aiming for the low end of the smartphone spectrum (like folks who want to graduate up from a Nokia S60 phone).

Any way, "crippled" is a bit melodramatic. Personally, I've been reasonably happy with 1XRTT and EDGE data rates on my Palm OS phones since 2001. My complaints about the Treos are that I wish they were (1) more usable phones, and (2) more stable PDAs, not that they were better Internet devices. When I can get all-you-can-eat 3G data for less than $40/mo I might be interested in 3G, but for now I'd rather see Palm put out some Treos that address my other concerns.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
hkklife @ 6/28/2006 10:34:04 AM # Q
I'd trade out the EVDO on my 700P in exchange for a 320*480 screen and a bettter quality speakerphone & earpiece.

Heck, I'd trade up the whole PHONE portion of the 700P in exchange for a EVDO cellular data-enabled TX.


Palm, are you listening? Come up with something that's halfway between a TX and a LifeDrive. Take out the HD & wi-fi and put in a cellular radio EVDO modem. Give it the Treo's removable battery. Keep it 320*480 and don't leave out the screen rotate button, charge LED and voice recorder. With at least 128mb RAM & plenty of DBCache, with maybe 512mb internal storage drive for good measure, that thing could manufactured im small numbers and sold to power users/vertical markets and be a sort of cult hit/high margin device. Spun propertly it could even be billed as a "mobile manager"

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
luria @ 6/28/2006 11:40:14 AM # Q
When it all comes back to the Palm os being too old and simple to run wifi and or highspeed 3g I have to question why they think we would put down money for less of a product. Instead of updating the os they load another (MW) os with all the bells and whistles and plan on selling the rest of us a more limited product. Why? I don't think it is melodramtic if I am heavily invested in Mac and need to use my phone for business. Without a Mac-freindly palm os that includes 3G features, we might as well jump ship and other companies make superiour products. Waving hints of futures possibilites is disingenous.
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
cervezas @ 6/28/2006 1:00:40 PM # Q
Suit yourself. If you don't like Windows Mobile Treos you're just going to have to be patient. Some time next year Palm's plans for the new "Palm OS" should be hatching. Don't want to wait? Well, cryin' isn't going to make it come any faster.

Meantime, I don't seem to be alone in feeling that there is still a lot Palm could do to make a better Garnet Treo, even without 3G data, which if you haven't noticed, hasn't exactly been taking the world by storm in terms of people actually using it.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
luria @ 6/28/2006 2:11:45 PM # Q
>Suit yourself. If you don't like Windows Mobile Treos you're just going to have to be >patient. Some time next year Palm's plans for the new "Palm OS" should be hatching. >Don't want to wait? Well, cryin' isn't going to make it come any faster.

True, crying isn't going to change anything; taking my business elsewhere will. Paln os 6.1 was supposedly ready in "04 and reputed to be able to handle wifi and 3G. "sometime next Year" "should be hatching" dosen't pay the bills. You're okay with 1X? G-D bless you. For the rest of us, paying for old technology that palm "could" improve is just silly when there are clearly other compayies moving ahead. And I'm looking at Windows Mobile Treos. If I have to change os there are MANY options out there with superior product, in my opinion. Anyone know what exactly happened to 6.1?

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
cervezas @ 6/28/2006 3:19:10 PM # Q
If I have to change os there are MANY options out there with superior product, in my opinion.

Exactly two if you live in the Western hemisphere: Windows Mobile 5.0 and Symbian (UIQ or S60). Elsewhere (mostly Asia) you've got various Linux "smartphone" OSes.

If you say you don't like Windows Mobile I doubt you'll find the other options "superior."

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
freakout @ 6/28/2006 6:15:24 PM # Q
I think Luria meant that if he had to change to WinMob, then there's better hardware options than the WinMob Treos. And fair enough, there is. Although none of them have the Treo's killer formfactor or Palm's usability enhancements. (Which are easily emulated, I know.)

Cervezas said:
"Meantime, I don't seem to be alone in feeling that there is still a lot Palm could do to make a better Garnet Treo, even without 3G data, which if you haven't noticed, hasn't exactly been taking the world by storm in terms of people actually using it."

You mean sales, David, or people actually using the Treo to it's full potential and not just as a glorified address book? I think Palm should consider including some kind of tutorial DVD with the products, that explores every inch of the device and names a few good third-party sites to try additional software.

Luria said:
"paying for old technology that palm "could" improve is just silly"

That's the sticking point, dude: they *can't* improve it. The UMTS international standard requires a phone be able to handle voice and data simultaneously. PalmOS 5 just can't do that without a near-complete rewrite - effort that would be better spent working on the new PalmOS. (I gather from reading others around here.)

As for PalmOS 6, ask The Voice of Reason. And get some popcorn. ;)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
luria @ 6/28/2006 10:08:02 PM # Q
Tim, this is EXACTLY my point. If palm os 5 is the sticking point for umts functionality and palm os 6.1 was apparently ready in '04, what happened???
Official story of Palm OS Cobalt
cervezas @ 6/28/2006 10:26:58 PM # Q
The more or less official story about Palm OS Cobalt (i.e. the one that I was given during a LinuxPipeline interview with then Director of Product Marketing, John Cook) is that PalmSource bit off more than they could chew. They found that developing their own operating system from the ground up, including a proprietary in-house kernel and their own custom drivers for every hardware component a licensee wanted made it difficult to deliver a competitive product: "As a smaller company we were managing many, many moving parts." Drivers in particular "became a critical time-to-market issue." Various people in PalmSource have admitted that the company was frustrated by certain licensees' product-timing decisions, which I took to mean that timelines were being imposed by licensees or prospective licensees that they couldn't deliver on.

The decision to move to Linux meant that they didn't have to maintain a proprietary kernel and they didn't have to develop all the drivers and support software in-house. They could focus on adding value through the application framework and user interface. I don't know if it's true or not, but I've been told that devices are quite different from PCs in that many mobile device components get Linux drivers written for them before any other drivers are developed. There does seem to be a pretty good ecosystem that's developed for this.

As Tim indicated, others have given more colorful and fanciful explanations of Cobalt's demise. Certainly there's probably more to the story, but this much makes pretty good sense to me.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/28/2006 10:35:02 PM # Q
As for PalmOS 6, ask The Voice of Reason. And get some popcorn. ;)

Ahem.

PalmOS 6 ("Cobalt") was a mighty fine OS.













Bwahahahah!

TVoR

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
LiveFaith @ 6/28/2006 11:17:43 PM # Q
VR, that was pitiful. No fireworks. I'm disappointed in you.

Pat Horne
RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
freakout @ 6/28/2006 11:37:13 PM # Q
I was hoping for some hidden snide comments in the whitespace. Disappointment reigns!

David's explanation makes a fair bit of sense too.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/29/2006 5:29:49 AM # Q
VR, that was pitiful. No fireworks. I'm disappointed in you.

Forgive me, Rev. Cobalt's been beaten down so badly over the past three years that I just couldn't bring myself to offering anything but a little sarcasm. My PalmSource biotches (Hello DK!) blew 3 years on the Cobalt Catastrophe and Palm is now off on another desperate wild goose chase with the clock about to run out and no remaining time outs.

To be honest, Palm may have been be better off sticking with Cobalt and trying to fix the telephony and stability issues over time. Compatibility is screwed no matter what they do to create a next-generation OS from now on, anyway, so why not make a (relatively) clean break from the shackles of the Old PalmOS? Furthermore, mobile device CPU speeds are getting to the point that Cobalt would no longer run like a drunken two-legged dog, so Palm could have allowed technology to compensate for their own incompetence (following Microsoft's lead).

At this stage it appears that PalmOS is down for the count and will be relegated to lower end devices until it's completely phased out. Windows Mobile + StyleTap Platform accomplishes more (with MUCH less effort) than anything Palm is capable of coming up with on their own. Unfortunately, the failure to innovate on Handspring's groundbreaking Treo 600 design is about to bite Palm in the a$$. Nokia, Sony Ericsson, HTC, etc are producing better quality, less expensive, better featured, and more stylish cellphones than Palm can put out, so the Treo gravy train will soon come to a screeching halt. With Palm now completely dependent upon carriers, all it will take is for Sprint, etc to decide to go with a cheaper competitor over the Treos and Palm's revenues dry up overnight.

Palm needs to get bought out by a company with the resources to produce significantly new cellphones at a rate competitive with the rest of the industry (every 6 - 12 months rather than Palm's 24 - 36 month development cycle). Rumor has it that Palm has been courting suitors aggressively. Only problem is that Palm has very little to offer traditional cellphone companies and there are not many companies that would be a good fit with Palm. Plus, the "push" email feature now being built into Microsoft Exchange + Windows Mobile devices removes one of Palm's potential selling points. But looking at how craptastic RIM's hardware is, wouldn't it be interesting to see a "Treo 750" with much better specs + build quality integrating with RIM's email server software? Treo and RIM have good name recognition with business customers right now, but their business models are both very vulnerable to attack from Microsoft, carriers + cellphone handset manufacturers. If Palm had control over its own OS (whether that was a freshly rolled "PalmLinux" or a debugged version of Cobalt purchased outright from Access for say $35 million) and was bought out by RIM, both companies might survive longterm. Otherwise, both Palm and RIM are TOAST within 2 years.

TVoR's bold prediction: Palm gets bought out by RIM before the end of 2006. Less likely is a buyout from a silly, wealthy company like Yahoo or Google looking to hit the ground running with the current gold standard for smartphones + good brand recognition among business users. (Wouldn't a modified Treo 700p make a solid starting point for the GOOGLEPORT™ - Google's handheld device for the masses that will soon be serving up GoogleNet™? Hmmmm....)


http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8336/#117669

Copyright, 2006. All rights reserved.

TVoR
(Author. Pundit. Connoisseur. Visionary. Lover of all things hackbod.)

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
SeldomVisitor @ 6/29/2006 7:45:41 AM # Q
> ...Rumor has it that Palm has been courting suitors aggressively....

This makes total sense.

> ...Only problem is that Palm has very little to offer traditional
> cellphone companies...

PALM outsources EVERYTHING - when a company outsources everything, what's there to buy?

The thought of RIM buying PALM is interesting. More likely, IMHO< to merge with HTC, though.

HTC - now THERE'S an interesting company! And they do everything IN-HOUSE!

Giggle.

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
SeldomVisitor @ 6/29/2006 7:47:43 AM # Q
Ahem...the "merge" mentioned above should be read as

== "...more likely for RIM to merge with HTC...".

Palm(job) + RIM(job): real soon now. Yes! Yes! Yesssss!!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/30/2006 4:20:02 PM # Q
If you were Microsoft how would you feel about the main provider of handsets running your mobile devices merging with one of your main competitors? HTC has done well by Microsoft and would be foolish to be so bold as to pi$$ Uncle Bill off. There's plenty of Taiwanese ODMs that would LOVE to step in and make handsets running Windows Mobile. For HTC to give up that gravy train and gamble on the combination of a creaky old PalmOS/buggy new PalmLinux/slow-as-molasses, buggy Cobalt would be suicidal. I'd be shocked to see HTC's directors approve such a foolhardy move.

RIM makes the most sense; cash-rich Yahoo, etc are longer shots. I can guarantee you that without a buyout, Palm is DEAD within a couple years (and RIM soon after). I predicted the Handspring merger, the PalmSource sale and my streak will continue when Palm announces it is being bought out this Fall.

Bookmark this post. It's like gold in the bank, Baby. Pure gold...


TVoR

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
sdeetz @ 7/12/2006 8:24:07 PM # Q
Luria,

If you have to have 3G data speeds, Palm OS will not be an option until they can figure out how to finish their new OS version.

However, just because you switch to WM5 to get 3G doesn't mean you have to ditch the Mac. Missing Sync has a new verison available for download that nicely syncs windows mobile devices with iCal, Address Book, Entourage, etc on a Mac.

I have been a Mac user for a while now (work still makes me use Windows but my home is Mac) and I used to be a faithful Palm OS user. However, I evetually had to reluctantly switch to windows mobile due to many of the limitations that have been discussed here. (ie, I needed to be able to run multiple applications at once, connect over a VPN, push email with Exchange Server, and simultaneously talk on the phone while accessing our corporate website)

At first I thought I would hate windows mobile, but I found that it was capable of doing everything my Palm did and more. And there are now a ton of add on software available as well.

Once Missing Sync added the ability to sync with Macs, there was no going back. I can't imagine going back to Palm now. It took a little while to get used to some of the navigation differences, but once acclimated I found that I actually liked some of the items better than Palms methods. I still have my old Treo 650 and when I get nostalgic I start it up to play with it. But it seems so antiquated now that I have gotten used to the features in windows mobile.

A big feature that I am still amazed that Palm has not integrated into their OS yet is a Today screen. It is so nice having a home screen like the desktop on your computer that shows date and time, upcoming appointments and tasks, emails, text messages, etc. You can even get cheap plug ins like Pocket Breeze to show weather forecasts, and other items. It's like widgets on my Mac dashboard. You can also just start typing any name or number from the home screen and it automatically searches all my contacts to find all possible matches for however many characters I typed. Then I just select the one I want. It shows all possible phone numbers and email addresses and lets me choose whether to call a number, send a email, text message, or multiledia message. All from the today screen without ever having to go into the contacts list.

This is where I get really frustrated with Palm. If their OS can't do luti tasking, Wi Fi, or 3G, OK. I guess they need time to upgrade the OS. But a today screen and nice dialer interface are basic functions of a smartphone that they could easily put into their existing OS. To make matters worse, when they came out with their 700w windows mobile version, not only did they support all of these features but they made them better by adding a web search window onto the today screen, as well as picture and speed dialing to the today screen. Those are things they could have done in their own OS but didn't for some reason. And when they released the 700p 5 months after the 700w, it STILL didn't have these basic features they added to their windows version.

So don't worry too much about going to "the dark side". After some trepidation, I now feel like I am using the best of both worlds! Macs and WM5 is a unlikely match, but it works great!

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
sdeetz @ 7/12/2006 8:52:44 PM # Q
One more MAJOR difference I forgot....

My windows mobile device has not had to be reset even once in the 4 months I've had it. My Treo had to be reset nearly every week. NOT an exaggeration! The screen also constantly would get off center with the stylus and have to be re-aligned. These two problems have been the case with every Palm device I've owned, not just the Treos. So far I have not seen either of these issues with my windows device at all.

I hate to admit this because I hate microsoft. As I said in the last post I am a huge Mac fan and feel that Windows is a disaster. But I'm learning that my distaste for MS is PC related, not their mobile devices. Until Steve Jobs decides to make a true Apple PDA phone, WM5 is the best thing out there by far. (I used a blackberry recently as well and that's even worse than Palm!)

RE: So, no new treo with Palm OS and UMTS???
freakout @ 7/12/2006 9:24:47 PM # Q
A big feature that I am still amazed that Palm has not integrated into their OS yet is a Today screen. It is so nice having a home screen like the desktop on your computer that shows date and time, upcoming appointments and tasks, emails, text messages, etc. You can even get cheap plug ins like Pocket Breeze to show weather forecasts, and other items. It's like widgets on my Mac dashboard.

The Treo's Phone screen shows date and time, your next upcoming calendar event and the number of unread text messages and emails in your inbox. It also forgoes the stuff like weather forecasts in favour of a large on-screen dial pad (which I quietly consider vastly more useful on a phone). It's clean, simple and has none of the clutter of the bloated WinMob Today screen. And anything you like can be assigned a keyboard letter on the Favourites menu - web page links, email/msging recipients, Palm apps - so you've got 26 different shortcuts right there. And if we're going to venture into the realm of cheap plug-ins, there are a couple of launchers for PalmOS that can do the same job as the Today screen.

You can also just start typing any name or number from the home screen and it automatically searches all my contacts to find all possible matches for however many characters I typed. Then I just select the one I want. It shows all possible phone numbers and email addresses and lets me choose whether to call a number, send a email, text message, or multiledia message. All from the today screen without ever having to go into the contacts list.

The 650 and 700 both do the exactly same thing, except typing brings up the Contacts app instead of staying on the phone screen. Cosmetic issue, I guess. The 700 has this "search contacts from a drop-down list" behaivour in it's improved messaging app, though, which is a zillion times better than the neutered one included on the 700w.

But a today screen and nice dialer interface are basic functions of a smartphone that they could easily put into their existing OS. To make matters worse, when they came out with their 700w windows mobile version, not only did they support all of these features but they made them better by adding a web search window onto the today screen, as well as picture and speed dialing to the today screen. Those are things they could have done in their own OS but didn't for some reason. (emphasis mine) And when they released the 700p 5 months after the 700w, it STILL didn't have these basic features they added to their windows version.

One of two reasons I guess: (1) Palm are lazy and complacent, which is quite likely the case, or (2) The Today screen looks pretty but really isn't all that useful. Given that on a handheld device all of your information is ideally only one or two buttons away, and that you also have a very limited amount of screen real estate, what's the point of showing snapshots of all that stuff that's only a button away instead of dedicating the screen to its primary function: being a phone app.

Sorry if I sound overly aggressive and zealot-y and nitpicky and pedantical ;) here. There are many valid reasons why WinMob is technically superior to PalmOS. But personally, I find the Today screen to exemplify everything that's wrong about Microsoft's approach to handheld design.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

Reply to this comment

I, admittedly, am confused.

SeldomVisitor @ 6/28/2006 1:07:27 PM # Q
Why is this new set of posts about "new TREOs Coming Soon!" any more believable than any other prior set of posts about "new TREOs Coming Soon!"?

Should I just start...you know...hopping for foot to foot, too?

=======

Yeah, we "know" =a= GSM TREO is coming because some Microsoft weenie Who Should Know said so. But isn't that really it?

RE: I, admittedly, am confused.
AdamaDBrown @ 6/28/2006 1:12:56 PM # Q
Well, look at it this way. We know that some time later this year, there's going to be a GSM Windows Treo, which will have UMTS. The leaked specs fall more or less in line with the Verizon Treo 700w. Therefore, let's assume that this device is the GSM counterpart to the existing 700w.

That being the case, it's a reasonable jump of logic to assume that there will also be a GSM Palm OS Treo at some point, to counter the existing 700p. Now, we get a report of two GSM Treos coming out on Cingular later this year.

So yes, it's mostly supposition filled in with a couple low-quality pictures and the words of an anonymous source. However, it makes a certain amount of sense, so people get excited.

Reply to this comment

Cingular stores have brochures with pictures?

jfme @ 6/28/2006 2:43:42 PM # Q
http://forums.cingular.com/cng/board/message?board.id=palm&message.id=4717

A user in the board explains:

"I went into my local Cingular store to look at upgrading my Treo 600 to a 650 (since they're now selling the 650 for $199). I questioned if the price reduction was in anticipation of a new Treo coming out. The Cingular rep pulled out the laminated tri-fold page that had all the Cingular phones on it, including future phones.

It showed an MS-powered Treo with Wi-fi, called Lennon, due out in October. It also showed a Palm-powered version WITHOUT Wi-fi, called Nitro, also due out in October. It included pictures of the phones, and they didn't look like a 700. I'm assuming that in the months since the 700 was released (and a GSM version was being developed), other changes were made. I'll bet it will be called something other than the 700."
"

Reply to this comment

Lennon and Nitro being pulled

cervezas @ 7/7/2006 12:10:48 AM # Q
I was in a local Cingular store today and decided I'd try to start up one of those amusing conversations with the sales people that so often get reported on Treo Central. So while we played around with the Nokia 9300 they had there I nonchalantly asked the salesguy if they were expecting any new Treos soon. To my surprise, the guy started blabbing about how "the Palm guy was here a couple of days ago" and had told the reps there that the new Treos that had been planned as "Cingular exclusives" later this year were being "pulled"--or at least delayed for some indefinite period of time. He described one of the Treos they thought they were going to get as running Windows Mobile and the other as Palm OS (sounded like Lennon and Nitro to me). He also said something I couldn't quite understand about how Palm was experiencing testing-related delays in a new Treo for Verizon (not the same as either of those Cingular was supposed to get, if I understood correctly) and that somehow this is what forced the change in Cingular's release plans. Sorry, I couldn't get a clearer explanation out of him.

Before the Palm-loyal Microsoft-haters get to crying too much, though, they can indulge in a bit of schadenfreude over this comment by the sales rep: "Windows Mobile 5.0 is a disaster. We get more of the [Cingular] 2125s and 8125s returned than everything else in the store combined."

So there you have it. My fun evening at the Cingular store in Colorado Springs.



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
freakout @ 7/7/2006 1:32:48 AM # Q
^^ Perhaps he was referring to the original rumoured August release date?

God, I hope so...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
cervezas @ 7/7/2006 2:53:24 AM # Q
Perhaps he was referring to the original rumoured August release date?

Well, I figure you never know when you're talking to one of these sales people. But he gave me the definite impression that the two Treos were off the roadmap for the time being.

What do you care, kangaroo boy? You don't have Cingular down under anyway, do you? Who knows what (if anything) this means about when these phones are released elsewhere.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

schadenfreude??? Are you edumacated, Beersy?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/7/2006 4:21:02 AM # Q
I love it when you get biotchslapped. Sorry.

And guess what? Nokia, Sony Ericsson etc will be releasing their phones exactly as scheduled. Palm is about to learn the hard way that there is no room for amateurs in the handset industry. The Treo-derived halo effect that Palm is still milking won't last forever (or even another year, for that matter)...


TVoR

RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
SeldomVisitor @ 7/7/2006 7:00:51 AM # Q
There's something inherently cool about a rumor that two devices that are nothing more than rumors and are rumored to be Coming Soon will be delayed or are not coming!

Giggle.

Now THAT'S entertainment!

If a tree falls...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/7/2006 10:46:34 AM # Q
If vaporware evaporates, does it ever make a splash? Hmmmmm...


TVoR

RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
SeldomVisitor @ 7/7/2006 12:02:26 PM # Q
A stock near and dear to my heart is SONS (Sonus) - a network infrastructure company that does fairly significant business (or did) with Cingular. Much discussion has been taking place on the SONS message board(s) about Cingular's planned cut in spending:

-- http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/tech/telecom/10295376.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

and I have been blithely reading and responding to that discussion w.r.t. SONS.

But...BOING!...isn't this possibly relevant to PALM as well?

What's the topic of this sub-thread?

The plot sickens...

RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
freakout @ 7/7/2006 1:17:17 PM # Q
"What do you care, kangaroo boy?"

freakout's Law of Australian Release Dates: anything worth having is *at least* three months behind the U.S. and about $100-200 more expensive. ;)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
hkklife @ 7/7/2006 2:07:23 PM # Q
Hey, isn't Cingular going back to at&t (note the lower case characters) Wireless next year?

Maybe they are trying to keep the # of Cingular-branded (this kind of thing is very costly) releases (new product/advertising/literature/signage etc.) to a minimum between this fall and whenever the at&t push begins (summer '07)?

Perhaps the 700W is going to quickly be put out to pasture and Verizon is going to get a CDMA version of the Lennon launched simultaneously alongside the GSM variants?

OR......Palm's really gonna hedge their bets and launch the new WinMob GSM Treo in EUROPEAN markets prior to launching Stateside!?! Hmmm....

Won't the Q be seeing a pricedrop in the next few months? And isn't the Canary (RAZR successor) coming by year's end to satisfy the dumbphone market? Even with Nokia bailing on CDMA handsets, Palm is going to see, as TVoR stated, some brutal competition in the smartphone sector beginning this fall and going throughout next year (and this is just what the current roadmaps are showing).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
AdamaDBrown @ 7/7/2006 5:20:10 PM # Q
Hey, isn't Cingular going back to at&t (note the lower case characters) Wireless next year?

No, there was talk about them retaining the right to sell service under the AT&T brand if they so chose, but they're not actually going to go as far as renaming the company.

RE: Lennon and Nitro being pulled
Gekko @ 7/7/2006 8:12:24 PM # Q

hey hkk - how's your new Treo? Do you love it or what?

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