Comments on: Treo Rumors & Analysis: Four New Treos Forthcoming?

The MorningPaper blog is reporting that the new Palm OS-based GSM Treo seen in the recently-leaked cameraphone spy shots is decidedly not the rumored 800p.

What this may indicate is that the new formfactor now seen in a series of leaked blurry spy shots may actually give birth to four different individual devices featuring different operating systems and target markets.

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Tuckermaclain @ 8/9/2007 1:08:13 PM # Q
A new Palm (Palm OS) is always good news. Plinux is backwards compatable, right? Hopefully it will be better than the latest rehash of the tired old Treo 600.

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PalmOS II = Linux by Wind River ?

icarus @ 8/9/2007 2:11:37 PM # Q
Regarding the mentioned new PalmOS II:

I just wonder how this Palm announcement (seen at 1SRC comes in?

Just to give you some food for thoughts. :)


Palm III, Palm III, Palm m105, Palm Tungsten T, palmOne LifeDrive, palmOne Tungsten T5, Palm TX

RE: PalmOS II = Linux by Wind River ?
Gazpacho @ 8/9/2007 5:32:41 PM # Q
No, there is no indication that the OS for the Foleo will have any relationship with the upcoming PalmOS II on Linux, except they both have a Linux-kernel. That is, they're both fruit, but differ like apples and pears. ;)

For the time being, they will make use of Wind River's solution, but when they get more experienced with their own PalmOS II on Linux, I can envision them moving back to one company, one OS.

But as for now, they don't have any in-house Linux technology that is ready for production, do they need to outsource it to Wind River Systems.

FoleoCentral is the news, opinions & review blog about the Palm Foleo Mobile Companion

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Third platform

BlakeBot @ 8/9/2007 2:38:31 PM # Q

Wild thought -- over at Tamspalm, Tam Hanna, who is obviously well plugged-in, has recently posted some cryptic comments related to Palm OS 4, like these:

"As for Palm OS lowlevel internas, I expect a huge flood of OS4 internals to flood the market soon. Cant say more ATM though...except that staying OS4 compatible may pay out big soon!"

"OS4 guys...hang in there. News coming soon!"

Is it possible that Palm's third, "Very Low Cost" Platform is actually [an updated version of] .... Palm OS 4??? Probably still on 68k?

RE: Third platform
hkklife @ 8/9/2007 2:49:09 PM # Q
Would make sense (kinda/sorta) to do a dirt-cheap GSM, OS4-based featurephone, especially for emerging markets. But I really don't see a huge advantage of OS4 in any major areas. And OS4's weaknesses--major security issues, for one, and nearly non-existent wi-fi and BT support for another--would seem likely to pale in comparison next to a bare-bones Garnet architecture.

And OS4'd probably introduce enough compatiblity and support headaches that any cost savings or power thriftiness would be nullified.

My personal take on Tam's tidbit? There are perhaps too many issues surrounding a Garnet emulation layer residing on top of PLinux. SO...Palm's gonna say that "Palm OS compatibility" only extends to programs written to support OS 4.1.2 or older?!?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Third platform
hotpaw03 @ 8/9/2007 3:29:08 PM # Q
This sort-of makes sense from the point of view of a supplier, similar to Apple, who doesn't want to risk any application crashing their cell phone or other user device. When an 68k application crashes inside the Pose VM, it does not take down linux or OS X, for instance. The Windows or Mac GUI can still respond to the user (browsing the web, or making a phone call, for instance) while Pose quickly gets rebooted in the background. Because of the emulation sandbox, OS 4 can be VM'd a lot more securely than OS 5. This is similar to a JVM sandbox, except that Pose apps are typically a *lot* more responsive than Java applets when run in small battery operated environments, as well as JavaScript run in a browser.

Just a random possibility...

RE: Third platform
BlakeBot @ 8/9/2007 7:48:05 PM # Q
Good points... So maybe the very low cost Platform 3 is actually Garnet, while 1 and 2 are Windows and PalmOS II.
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Screen Size

yugadp @ 8/9/2007 2:55:27 PM # Q
I didn't see anything about a Palm OS or Palm OS II device with a landscape screen (320x480). Grrrr... I want a large landscape screen on my Treo...

The Dock is nothing but a glorified Windows Quick Launch bar. Give me a Taskbar or give me death!
RE: Screen Size
hkklife @ 8/9/2007 3:04:50 PM # Q
We'll probably see a parallel with 320x480 (or larger) being introduced into the Treo line and under Plinux with how it was introduced in the PDA line under Garnet:

#1 First devices are 320x320 while the bugs are worked out (Tungsten T=800p)

#2 Additional devices with same resolution screens appear thereafter while the OS is tweaked some more (Zire 72, T|C==800p's successor device)

#3 First 320x480 device appears with some quirks (Tungsten T3=whatever Plinux Treo comes out fall '08 or early '09 similar to Pat's classic Treo 800g)

#4 Large screen format is perfected (Tungsten T5/TX==Palm's eventualy answer to the iPhone in '09 or 2010).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

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All I want for Christmas is Palm OS UMTS...

freakout @ 8/9/2007 5:31:49 PM # Q
...HSDPA even better. C'mon, Palm, get cracking!
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4s @ 8/9/2007 10:13:19 PM # Q
If Palm wants to begin to compete with the iPhone, a nice place to begin would make these new phones easily sync-able with the Mac.

Just sayin'...


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Thanks Palm!

LiveFaith @ 8/9/2007 10:22:12 PM # Q
Thank you for the ''leaks''. The Foleo curveball + rumors calling that toy phone your next 800 level Treo pushed the remaining faithful to the brink of Palm suicide.

Nice recovery. And highly welcomed btw. I haven't seen so many + thots around here since eTullurian got banned. Now, better get those screenshots for us.

E-mail me some and I'll mysteriously blog them. Everybody around here trusts me reeeal good.

Pat Horne

RE: Thanks Palm!
cervezas @ 8/9/2007 11:04:02 PM # Q
I kind of miss eTellurian. He was sort of the Luna Lovegood of PIC, don't you think?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing

RE: Thanks Palm!
twrock @ 8/9/2007 11:32:07 PM # Q
Re: ET, any way he can come back and be limited to once a week or something? Yeah, I kind miss the guy too.

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RE: Thanks Palm!
Admin @ 8/10/2007 12:14:14 AM # Q
Re: E-T - The entity know ase-tellurian was only banned in the forums, where the constant off-topic nature of his posts became way too distracting for many members there. E-T is still welcome to post in the news articles, provided the content is somewhat relevant and does not detract from the discussions.
Completing the we-com Crumple-Horned Snorkack Circle
freakout @ 8/10/2007 5:44:24 AM # Q
A people-driven solution based on peace makes for eminently logical thoughts. The price of democracy is bad choices, but we also see more unique thoughts. In the end it all comes down to a simple question: is your e-knarr discounting the price of freedom? If so we may all soon be using virtual wallets.
RE: Thanks Palm!
cervezas @ 8/10/2007 12:08:01 PM # Q
Sorry Tim. It's just not the same.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
RE: Thanks Palm!
freakout @ 8/12/2007 5:33:16 PM # Q
Sniff. I tried. ;)
RE: Thanks Palm!
e_tellurian @ 10/2/2009 3:47:52 PM # Q

The e-knarr is the name of a prototype that could also be called friend-ship.



Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached

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It's too late.

CleverClaire @ 8/10/2007 10:54:15 AM # Q
This would have been great news 1-2 years ago. It's just too late.

Will the new Treos sell? Yes. Will they be nearly as successful as they would have been last year? No way.

I have been a Treo/Palm user for years and years. Last week, I like many, many others traded my flawed Treo 700p for a Blackberry 8830. I hate that I had to do it but the BB is so much better.

Blackberrys are outselling Treos 2 or 3 to one and that will just continue. The new Treos will help, but they are too late to the market. Way too late.

Why couldn't Palm release these 1-2 years ago????

RE: It's too late.
cervezas @ 8/10/2007 12:06:22 PM # Q
I disagree. There's such a thing as "too late" as in "we ran out of money," but I see no sign that there is such thing as "too late" when it comes to giving consumers choices in a growing, diversifying mobile technology market.

Palm doesn't have to have to sell more Treos than RIM or anyone else to be successful--they're a much smaller company, for one thing. They just need to execute on their philosophy of delivering a simple, responsive mobile computing experience.

I expect in the coming years we will see smaller companies than Palm putting out much niche-ier handsets (think "The J. Peterman Phone in Peruvian Vicuņa Leather") and making good coin of it. If Palm can keep improving and diversifying their products they'll do fine, too.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing

RE: It's too late.
CleverClaire @ 8/10/2007 1:54:28 PM # Q
That's fine. They can go from the dominant player in the small, portable computing market to a niche player with 1% of the smartphone market.

I think if you asked Palm and their investors they would disagree with your vision for the company. They do want to out sell RIM, HP, Nokia etc and lead in the smartphone market.

I hate seeing all these new Blackberrys showing up on my customers, co-workers and now my own belt. It means Palm has failed.

Yes it is great to give consumers more choices. But your options must be competitive. Palms are not right now. In another 8-10 months maybe they will be, but by then RIM will have their newer, higher resolution BB's out and although Palm may put out a great Treo, the momentum of RIM is very strong in the corporate world. And no way Palm wins much in the consumer world right now.

By the way, as much as I would absolutely love a Linux Treo, I won't be the first one to buy any new Palms. The Q/A has been absolutely horrible. The 650 was a disaster until the firmware was updated a second time. The 700w was also a big problem. Don't even get me started on the 700p.

And no, I am not a Palm basher. I have consistently pushed Treos for years.

RE: It's too late.
cervezas @ 8/10/2007 2:16:12 PM # Q
My point was that there is no "too late" beyond which Palm can't regain market share. It's all a matter of their execution.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
RE: It's too late.
freakout @ 8/10/2007 2:20:43 PM # Q
I disagree w.r.t. the 650; mine never gave me any problems and it still works perfectly two-and-a-half years later.

And as for Blackberries outselling them? So what? Who gives a damn, so long as the Treo does what you need it to? It's like those who crow about the fact that the iPhone is going to sell millions; it means nothing except that the companies that make them have successfully reached the lowest-common-denominator of customers. Blackberries are the McDonald's of smartphones. Ubiquitous and adequate. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sales don't matter, except to those who unhealthily tie their moods to a company's stock price. So long as Palm keep producing the most versatile, user-friendly phones on the market, it doesn't matter much to me how many they sell to other people, 'cause they've already got my vote.

I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

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OT: Nokia's smart phones flop in U.S.

Gekko @ 8/12/2007 8:20:44 AM # Q

Nokia: Smart phones, few U.S. buyers
The world's largest mobile phone maker has had a tough time selling to American consumers. But that could soon change, writes Business 2.0's Michal Lev-Ram.

RE: OT: Nokia's smart phones flop in U.S.
twrock @ 8/12/2007 11:59:24 AM # Q
From the article:
Stymied by U.S. wireless carriers, Nokia has begun selling "unlocked" phones, which are devices that can work on any wireless network, directly to consumers. All users need to do is remove the SIM card from their old phone, insert it into a new one, and -- voila -- start dialing.

"In Europe, people are used to it," says Michael Gartenberg, vice president and research director at Jupiter Research in New York. "But consumers here are not accustomed to purchasing unlocked, unsubsidized phones -- many don't even know they can transfer their SIM cards."

No, seriously, many American consumers don't know they can do this?! You've got to be kidding me.

But here's an interesting line:

To that end, Nokia last month started a viral marketing campaign featuring videos of jealous laptop computers attacking N95-wielding consumers. The message: Cell phones like the N95 are replacing laptops.

Hey, where have we heard that before? ;-)

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