Comments on: Treo 800p Live Spy Shots
The pictures show a redesigned, yet familiar Treo look in a smaller and slightly slimmer package. This Treo 800 (unconfirmed name) is running Palm OS Garnet and features a touchscreen with a "smaller" translucent keyboard. Previously leaked images of a version of this model have also been seen running Windows Mobile. Read on for the full gallery.
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RE: Oh my...
and its not that ugly.....
hopefully there are other colors than white.
kinda reminds me of the Zire22.
My guess a cheapo phone and organizer,
no wifi and no bluetooth
RE: Oh my...
More ugly is the out of focus/shaky/fuzzy "spy" photos. I guess the trick to using one of these things is to squint really hard so you can't see how ugly it really is.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."
-Einstein
RE: Oh my...
LMMFAO!!!
Palm - keep putting more lipstick on this pig!
What we do know vs. what we don't
The keyboard is even smaller than the current version's (already becoming a bit tight on the 755p) and there do not appear to be any major external changes like a camera lens w/ optical zoom or anything similar.
I also did not notice a 3.5mm stereo headphone jack but the bottom panel is the only area not photographed. I have a feeling (and it's been reported on TC) that the Treo line is going to move away from the Athena connector and go with miniUSB.
So in this thing's favor it COULD have wi-fi. It COULD have a 3.5mm headphone jack. It COULD have gigs of onboard flash storage. It COULD have a fullsize SDHC slot. It COULD have A2DP. It COULD be running PLinux with EVDO Rev. A or HSDPA.
However, I'm predicting that this will just be a cost-reduced, higher-margin version of the 680 designed to target for the "hip" youth market and to give a final GSM POS Treo that's Fooleo compatible. I'm predicting a small 320x320 screen, a 1.3mp camera, 64mb of usable RAM, mini USB and a mini or microSD slot.
Thus, attaching 800-series nomentclature to this pig is quite misleading. I see this as more of, say, a Treo 580 or 610 than anything else. IS THIS Palm's answer to the iPhone?
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
If I recall the previous rumors said this guy was going to have a microSD slot, which if true could be anywhere - even under the back cover in the battery area.
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
IS THIS Palm's answer to the iPhone?
Oh please, say it isn't so!
They made the screen even smaller than previous Treo's? How about 480x320 Palm? How about a TX sized screen?
They made the keyboard even smaller so that people with even slightly bigger than tiny thumbs can't use it? How about NO hard keyboard Palm?
People had been asking for a Treo with the iPhone hardware specs for years before Jobs announced it. When is Palm going to do it? What's the problem already?!!!
Fer cry'n out loud, the Foleo with it's full sized keyboard gives them even more reason to sell a keyboardless Treo.
I simply do not understand Palm's obsession with a single form factor.
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RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
My Impressions ...
Looks? We'll, I'm not head over heels with it, but it's serviceable and at least Palm is trying to get outta the 90s. I'll give em' a point here. Multiple colors should be on the way too. I think that kids may be attracted to this design. Apparently, this is not pointed toward the biz community because . . .
Screen? Hopelessly small. May work for texting, contacts and other basics. E-mail, docs, web for adults ... Fajjitaboutit! This has to be for kids with 20-20 vision or better. Unbelievably, Palm wasted width outside the screen, even after shrinking this to Snickers bar width. After 8 years of moaning about screen real estate, I give up. They'll never get it. Never. Apple already does in their very first device. Sad.
Keyboard? I hope they are going for the younger generation. I mean younger as in grammar schoolers! No full sized hands are gonna play well with that infintile thing. Maybe soccer moms? Maybe teens. Maybe. I'm not even sure teens are sold on the QWERTY layout for texting. Many of them can blaze faster with a traditional phone and predictive text anyway.
Buttons? Nice and large. Should work nice. What is bewildering is how small the keyboard keys are and how large the app buttons are in comparison. If anything, shrink the app buttons and give us larger keys. Changed them up again to help the Treo community again think it's getting more than just warmed over scraps from yesteryear. Somebody's doing their job. Like the Lifedrive D-pad. It looked good on the LagDrive IMO too.
Cam? The lens opening is a bit larger than my pathetic 680 cam. Maybe Palm actually cares and is gonna provide 2-3mpx with decent capture device surface area (the real measure of a digicam) for acceptable photos. Nahhh, why waste my energy ... it's just a bigger, badder, better VGA.
BT? Of course it will be v1.2. Palm aint gonna sink any real resources into FrankyG at this point. This will be a legacy phone on release day.
WiFi? Lord Jesus forgive me for asking so foolishly and making mortal man look disdainfully on one created in your image. Aintgonnahappen!
Battery life? Should be decent with that thickness and that micro screen. Proabably has a 150mhz proc too. I predict 900mah.
Connector? Going waaaaay out on a limb here. It's the Athena and it's favorite 2.5mm sidekick. Why mess with such success?!?
Foleo? Yep, this phone makes the Foleo look like an absolute necessity. If Palm were the only phone mfctr on earth, then they would own it all. Pretty big IF eh?
Nomenclature? Surely this is the Treo 500, 515, or 550. 800 would be a joke unless this thing does one of those "Transformers" acts and pops out a VGA screen, bigger keyboard and has some serious horsepower. Looks more like a "300" level, but that's been used. Maybe it wont be a "Treo". Maybe it's the long awaited "Veld"! Anyone remember that?
Fact! Palm absolutely, positively does NOT listen to it's customers (except maybe the manual ringer switch). You've got to hand it to them, they are not politician-like poll driven company. I can't wait to hear how they'll spin this. Maybe as a Mobile Companion Companion?
Pricepoint? $99 withOUT contract and retail it their strong channels as an unlocked CDMA and/or GSM. Throw it in free with every Foleo. Much more than that and I can't see it getting much traction.
Pat Horne
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
I like your line of thinking. Please do not share it here tho. This is not the place. Apparently Palm reads these boards and makes sure that nothing we ask for is implemented.
Lets beg for a stronger IR port and smaller screens than this for better battery life. Heck, maybe a regular front keyboard and another to slide out from behind. Square screens only please. It confuses us when one side is longer than the other. Oh yeah, lets keep that OS footprint as small as possible. Maybe we could cut the clipboard limit in half?
Pat Horne
Palm!!! WHAT are you thinking??!!
I'm not sure if, at 23, I can still credibly consider myself in touch with the 'kids' anymore, but I can sure as hell say with one look that it ain't gonna appeal to my generation. Heck, I'm a total Treo obsessive and it makes me wanna puke.
The D-Pad sucks. The colour sucks - even more so than the Extra-Bland graphite of earlier Treos. But most unbelievable of all, the screen sucks. People called my 650 a brick. The 680 doesn't raise eyebrows quite as high, but it still quietly says to people "My owner is a bit of a geek". Even in funky red. But there's one thing that always draws compliments - the (compared to a 'regular' phone) big, bright gorgeous screen. This is one of the Treo's big draws for those who want to jump into Smartphoneville, those who are tired of texting on a tiny screen. And they're seriously considering shrinking it down???!!!!!!!
Palm, GET REAL. Please! As your fans have been telling you for years, you should focus on three form factors:
1) The trusty, classic and popular Treo 600 design.
2) A similarly sized phone, but sans keyboard and with a landscape screen.
3) A small clamshell design. Think Treo 180/270, but about half the width. Standard number pad. It can do email, threaded SMS and simple web browsing. Lotsa people want the functionality of PalmOS without the bulk of the Treo.
If this is what that iPod guy you hired came up with, FIRE HIM. IMMEDIATELY.
Bleh! I'm off to kick a puppy or something.
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
Regardless, here's something I know with certainty: I'll coax about 2+ more years out of my 650 until it finally breaks, and then I'll probably switch to iPhone 3. Palm has been dying a slow death for several years, and this looks like the tombstone to me. Actually, it does look a little like a tombstone (if you squint.)
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
Having a tiny screen, limited internal storage, an antique OS, limited out of the box audio/video support, no wifi... is just not going to cut it. why would any body who is unfamiliar if the palm os buy is model and not just another nokia/moto/samsung/HTC model.
KAY
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
In the business space, Palm are perfectly right to focus on email as their killer app. But if they ever hope to really crack the consumer market, they've got to get smarter about media. If you're tech-savvy then it's quite easy to turn your Treo into a killer media player, but they desperately need to improve on the out-of-the-box experience.
And release a damn landscape Treo, already. With a 3.5mm jack.
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
HTC has hit after hit of their models.
Speaking of HTC, here's a slightly OT link: http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry1573.html.
The article is titled Googlephone could be powered by Linux and free of charge. Here's a paragraph I found interesting:
But the most interesting of all the speculation comes in the shape of reports emerging from Singapore that suggest talks with High Tech Computer (HTC) in Taiwan, manufacturer of some of the most innovative and powerful smartphone devices on the market, have reached a conclusion. Those same sources say that a Linux software based handset will be ready for launch as early as the first quarter of 2008. This could make for the ideal partnership, as the HTC handsets so far are technically advanced but somewhat let down by the somewhat unstable Windows software that powers them.
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
The obssession is based on a single factor - it costs money to design innovative form factors, and it costs money to hire and keep qualified staff to develop innovative form factors.
I've lost count of the number of people palm has laid off over the years.
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
The obssession is based on a single factor - it costs money to design innovative form factors....
Ok, I can understand that. On the other hand, unless the phone has the exact same mainboard, components and case, it's costing them development costs for every variation on the "standard" Treo design already.
When I say "form-factor" I'm talking about what it looks like in general, the general layout and style. The single form factor at the moment is a small-square-screen with complete keyboard. But I suspect that they (or whomever did it for them) had to pretty much start from scratch on this latest Treo. From my perspective it's nothing new, but from an design and manufacturing perspective, it is. (I'm assuming it really is much smaller than previous Treo's, and requires different components.)
So as long as they are going to have to do design work anyway, how about something "different" for a change? Maybe they could have listened to their user base a few years ago and beat Apple to the punch with that form factor in a truly "smart"phone.
I hope Apple really does open up the iPhone to true third-party development, but I really have a hard time believing that is ever going to happen. I guess that I'm just going to have to wait for a Linux phone platform to become popular enough and get a decent set of apps. At the moment nobody but Palm has the apps I want on my handheld/smartphone.
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
Never learned to read, did we?. I don't 'blindly dislike' the iPhone. It's got a great web browser. It's got a pretty decent camera. It's got a big screen. It looks nice.
It also has no buttons, no MMS, crippled BT, no 3G, no third-party applications, a non-removable battery and a minimum $500 price tag with a 2-year contract to a crap carrier.
Last word is all your if you want it, sweetheart. But I'd suggest you stop posting off-topic flamebait.
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
Oh, I don't know... maybe they'll sell a few of these, or toss them in for anyone smart enough to buy a Fooleo. Thankfully the Treo 755 is "good enough" to last a year or two until Palm figures out how to innovate or blows through their remaining ca$h trying to build even lower-end garbage and bizarre product lines they have little credibility in. Man, what coulda' been.......
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
>decent camera. It's got a big screen. It looks nice.
Perhaps it could have been stated differently, "your blind allegiance to that technologically decaying Phone/PDA...I think it's called a Treo.
Still, something like the iphone - which was brought up by several posters in this topic - demonstrates how out of touch Palm is with producing this lame-o treo 800 seven months after the iphone was demonstrated.
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
Treo Pros: It has a triple play of input options: touchscreen, exposed (important to emphasise) keyboard, and intelligent one-handed navigation. It has an instant-on button for every major function. It's available unlocked at a reasonable price (680). It has a massively varied software library, that is still expanding and being updated despite the constant "Palm is dying" mantra. It has the best SMS/MMS software on the planet, bar none. It has 3G (755, 750, 700). It has expandable memory. It's also a better-than-average phone.
It also has an ancient, homely and somewhat unstable OS, flaky Bluetooth performance, no wifi, a bulky form factor and a crappy 2.5mm headphone jack.
(I'd list "small screen", but to me the screen is huge. It all depends on whether you're comparing it to a PDA or a dumbphone.)
All in all, I prefer the Treo's downsides to the iPhone's.
Stop trolling. Or don't. I don't really care, 'cause I'm now going to happily scroll past every single one of your dumbass posts. Which I really should have done to start with, I suppose...
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
RE: What we do know vs. what we don't
What apple nailed is the operating system - multitasking and fast!
Seven years since I bought my first palm os PDA - and palm is still struggling with garnet - just goes to show that garnet will be the anchor that ties down palm.
EVDO Rev. A
RE: EVDO Rev. A
Don't forget to wish for improved/faster/more stable Bluetooth so that your Fooleo won't feel like it's on a 56k dial-up connection when it's pulling down attachments via your Treo...
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: EVDO Rev. A
Never underestimate Palm's ability to innovate beyond the reaches of human limitation! :-D
This just gave me a sick thought. What if Moore's Law was based on Palm's last 5 years of innovation? Uggggggh.
Pat Horne
Looks like their moving in the right direction.
Knowing Palm, it will likely be a shrunken meld of a 650 and Zire 71--extra mediocre.
RE: Looks like their moving in the right direction.
Going from the wonderful T|X display to this stamp sized excuse for a screen would be akin to going from an iPod to a 1979 Sony Walkman. From a T3 to a 650 pained me enough. This is even smaller.
Guarantee you one thing, it's gonna have some killer pixel density. No need for font smoother on this baby.
Pat Horne
RE: Looks like their moving in the right direction.
The smaller LCD & screen just shut the door on this one for me (assuming Ryan's tipster was 100% correct). Even wi-fi, 128mb RAM, and a 4gb internal flash drive couldn't make up for horrid styling and a tiny LCD & keyboard.
The 755p already minutely shrinks down the 700p's LCD and keyboard. Now this thing is taking the Treo formfactor into Zire territory....but by being 320x320 instead of 160x160 this thing'll be too small for anyone over 25 to see without squinting!
Anyone remember the original Gandolf leaked images from a while back where the screen actually looked decently large?
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
Treo 6/7xx: a near-perfect compromise. Gandolf: a POINTLESS one
I love the Treo 6/7xx form factor 'cause I think it's the best compromise you're going to get out a QWERTY-equipped phone. The keyboard dances nearly perfectly on that knife-edge between "too fat to be pocketable" ala` Blackberry, and "too small to be usable", ala this monstrosity. The screen, too, is big enough to be readable, not so huge that it sacrifices input functionality.
What idiot thought up this thing? Keyboard is now not only a big neon sign that screams "NERD!", but also too small to actually provide a nerd-device's functionality! The tradeoff used to be looks-for-utility. And now we have NEITHER.
Eight months ago when the iPhone was announced, I wrote in an editorial:
How Can Palm Compete?It's really not as Herculean a task as you might think. As we've already noted, the iPhone has essentially cloned the best bits of the Treo and wrapped them up in a prettier package. Palm needs...(snip!) (2) A keyboard-less Treo with a landscape screen, and PalmOS needs a visual upgrade. Like, yesterday. iPhone's UI looks gorgeous and puts both Palm OS and Windows Mobile to shame.... Simple huh? Heck, you could do it right now with a ROM update. Are Palm up to the challenge, or are we about to watch our favourite company get steamrolled? I think they can do it, but they need to move quickly.
The clock is ticking, Palm. Not just ticking, but the alarm went off a month ago. Stop hitting the damn snooze button and WAKE UP! This hideous creation solves NONE of your problems.
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: Looks like their moving in the right direction.
Guarantee you one thing, it's gonna have some killer pixel density. No need for font smoother on this baby.
Talk about a silk purse out of a sow's ear. ;-)
So I don't need font smoothing, but the letters will look like braille dots. Maybe I can make a quick buck selling matching pearl-white magnifying lens glasses for all of the nerds out there who can't see the screen otherwise. Should sell like ........... this thing does.
Can this really be happening?
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: Looks like their moving in the right direction.
RE: Looks like their moving in the right direction.
>I love the Treo 6/7xx form factor 'cause I think it's the best compromise you're going to get out a QWERTY-
>equipped phone. The keyboard dances nearly perfectly on that knife-edge between "too fat to be pocketable"
>ala` Blackberry, and "too small to be usable", ala this monstrosity. The screen, too, is big enough to be
>readable, not so huge that it sacrifices input functionality.
>What idiot thought up this thing? Keyboard is now not only a big neon sign that screams "NERD!", but also too
>small to actually provide a nerd-device's functionality! The tradeoff used to be looks-for-utility. And now we
>have NEITHER.
What's to get? Palm is seriously screwed - they may have iphone-like products in the pipeline, but consumers won't wait three years for them. They need to fast track what they have and get them out within the next six months.
Wow palm: You've managed to suck again
1. Small speaker, obviously not a higher quality or stereo speaker setup like LG, Sony, Nokia are putting on their phones
2. No forward facing camera - not surprising since the OS can't do video conferencing, but I guess this proves they have no intention of it ever doing so - hence not true 3G
3. Don't see a memory card slot - It's pretty reasonable to assume palm has ditched full size SD cards completely now.
4. Camera has no flash and based on the lens size it's obvious they're not going for any kind of real quality
5. Looks like they've dropped the 4-way nav button - one of the best features of the treo
6. No usb port, so it seems no USB host.. not that you'd expect something as useful and flexable as that from Palm. Frankengarnet couldn't do much with it anyway... unless they hacked it up some more
7. Did I mention how damn ugly it is?
I have no doubt it won't have wifi. Great...
So now that I've invested in so much palm software I guess I'm going to have to get a phone from another manufacturer. I prefer phones that don't suck
RE: Wow palm: You've managed to suck again
Further proof that Sony leaving was the death of Palm OS
The title says it all - once Sony left, the platform began its downward spiral. Sure, the Treo did relatively well, but it is now facing incredible competition, and Palm's offerings have a very hard time stacking up.
When Sony left the market, Palm stopped innovating. Not that they were innovating very much at all, but compared to the time after Sony stopped selling Clies, Palm was FLYING with innovation. They went from m505 to m515 in what, a year? That's a whole 'nother 8 MB RAM chip and a slightly brighter screen! Unprecedented from Palm (and I WISH I was being sarcastic here). I can't even tell the different Treo models apart. "Ohh, now it doesn't have an external antenna nub. I've never seen that before in a phone!"
-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a
RE: Further proof that Sony leaving was the death of Palm OS
Luckily no one is replying to this thread. (or not yet?)
--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: Further proof that Sony leaving was the death of Palm OS
-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a
RE: Further proof that Sony leaving was the death of Palm OS
Radical thought, I know. But please, don't let little ol' me stop you from "defending a dying platform". :P
RE: Further proof that Sony leaving was the death of Palm OS
RE: Further proof that Sony leaving was the death of Palm OS
I was and am no big fan of SONY, have rarely had any of their technology that held up as well as even a Treo 600, and their illegal rootkit vandalism of so many computers around the world should have put their executives in jail. But they did push the envelope of the PalmOS PDA and available components - and for that we can thank them.
I'm not sure who is more incompetent
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
Why a 40-year old wife is always bad? Do you mean the iPhone is like a 20-year old girlfriend and it's only fun for a short period of time? As time goes on, you will miss your 40-year old wife? :) And you will also feel a generation gap with your 20-year old girlfriend? :)
--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
And completely brain-dead.
This coming from someone using the most cerebrally primitive (and dead) mobile platform on the market - an operating system that literally can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
Oh wait, I forgot. iPhone is revolutionary! If it can't do it, you shouldn't want it!
Excuse me while I go and spend the day copy-and-pasting text on my cerebrally primitive phone. Because I can.
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
This new device may not appeal to everyone but that does not mean it has no merit. I can certainly see a market for a candy bar (as opposed to soap bar) form smartphone. The form seems similar to the Blackberry Pearl accept it has a QWERTY keyboard. As far as I know the Pearl sells pretty well. As opposed to burning Palm at every turn, should they not get credit for trying to expand the niche smartphone market. If the phone has not IR, no expansion and bluetooth and is sold for $100, I think could sell well even though it would not interest me at all.
Regarding the walking and chewing gum comment. As far as I can tell, the iPhone can only do one thing at a time (aside from playing music in the background and even that there is no basic control without returning to the music app). In fact, you can not jump from one app directly to another (every app change requires a return to the home screen). I have not read a single review or post commenting that if you leave the browser it will continue to download the page you hand opened, so I don't know if it can do that. But it does not seem to be particularly more adept at multitasking then the Palm OS. I note also, that if Palm released a device with no find function and no ability to cut and paste and no ability to expand the memory and no ability to install apps, you guys would be decrying the idiocy of Palm and predicting (yet again) its impending demise.
In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
Clearly Palm can do no right as far as you guys are concerned. I can not recall the last time I read any kind of positive comment from the vast majority of you regulars (there are some notable exceptions). This begs the question, why do you keep coming back and posting the same complaints over and over?
I think I saw some nice things posted about the Tungsten E posted around here five years ago. Why do these guys keep coming back? Why do they keep pining for Sony and their PDAs with their funny little buttons, slow processors, and skimpy memory? Why do they sing the praises of the Tungsten T3 after almost universally panning it when it first came out?
This new device may not appeal to everyone but that does not mean it has no merit. I can certainly see a market for a candy bar (as opposed to soap bar) form smartphone. The form seems similar to the Blackberry Pearl accept it has a QWERTY keyboard. As far as I know the Pearl sells pretty well. As opposed to burning Palm at every turn, should they not get credit for trying to expand the niche smartphone market. If the phone has not IR, no expansion and bluetooth and is sold for $100, I think could sell well even though it would not interest me at all.
It's hard to tell much from these blurry pictures which makes the long, detailed predictions based on them so amusing. Nevertheless, I do kind of like this phone. Part of this is the fact that I'm still using a Treo 600 which is getting a bit long on the tooth. I've resisted the urge to upgrade because I usually carry a separate PDA (currently a LifeDrive) anyway, so the small square screen doesn't bother me. I just whip out my LifeDrive when I want multimedia, wifi, and a nice screen. If I can get an unlocked version of this device at a good price, it will make a good upgrade for me.
As for the specs, I'm pretty certain that black square on the side of this device is an IR window, so it won't be completely stripped down feature-wise. Add Bluetooth and a mini-micro-or whatever SD slot they're using this week and I'll buy this. Hell, I might even buy a Foleo someday and pair it with this device (assuming Palm doesn't abandon the Foleo the way it did the LifeDrive). Hopefully, they'll make it in different colors -- this device would look much better in black, red, or dark blue.
Regarding the walking and chewing gum comment. As far as I can tell, the iPhone can only do one thing at a time (aside from playing music in the background and even that there is no basic control without returning to the music app). In fact, you can not jump from one app directly to another (every app change requires a return to the home screen). I have not read a single review or post commenting that if you leave the browser it will continue to download the page you hand opened, so I don't know if it can do that. But it does not seem to be particularly more adept at multitasking then the Palm OS. I note also, that if Palm released a device with no find function and no ability to cut and paste and no ability to expand the memory and no ability to install apps, you guys would be decrying the idiocy of Palm and predicting (yet again) its impending demise.
These guys did that when Palm released a device with an insignificant "find bug" that probably affected 0.1% of its users, so yes Palm can do no right and Apple can do no wrong it's just the way of the world.
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
If it doesn't do bluetooth, it is not Fooleo-compliant.
And that would be REALLY DUHmb on PALM's part.
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
Here, he says the Treo doesn't multitask, but he doesn't need all of that since he only listens to music in the background:
>>What do I care, Foo? It plays mp3s in the background - which is all I want
And then in the same post, he accuses the iPhone of lacking features in the OS!
>>Oh wait, I forgot. iPhone is revolutionary! If it can't do it, you shouldn't want it!
This is classic pot calling the kettle black. This is why your editorial was laughed at. You're a Palm fanboy in the truest sense, and you're defending a dying platform. Reread your post and try not to chuckle at your tunnel vision.
-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
>>Regarding the walking and chewing gum comment. As far as I can tell, the iPhone can only do one thing at a time (aside from playing music in the background and even that there is no basic control without returning to the music app). In fact, you can not jump from one app directly to another (every app change requires a return to the home screen). I have not read a single review or post commenting that if you leave the browser it will continue to download the page you hand opened, so I don't know if it can do that. But it does not seem to be particularly more adept at multitasking then the Palm OS. I note also, that if Palm released a device with no find function and no ability to cut and paste and no ability to expand the memory and no ability to install apps, you guys would be decrying the idiocy of Palm and predicting (yet again) its impending demise.
It does true multitasking, and it will download a page in the background if you go into another application. It's harder to notice while on EDGE because of the slower speeds, but on Wifi, you can easily tell. Tap a link, exit the application, and go read a new email message you were just notified of (with an Excel attachment that you can download and view). By the time you go back into the browser, it's done loading the page.
Oh, and then you can double click the earbud inline microphone piece to advance to the next track on your music list. Pretty cool.
-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a
WARNING! This post may contain traces of Sarcasm
And then in the same post, he accuses the iPhone of lacking features in the OS!
>>Oh wait, I forgot. iPhone is revolutionary! If it can't do it, you shouldn't want it!
abosco, I'd like to introduce you to a concept named "humor", defined in the dictionary as:
1. a comic, absurd, or incongruous quality causing amusement
In this case, it's (1) Foo accusing Palm OS of the being most "the most cerebrally primitive (and dead) mobile platform on the market". When he has a "handheld computer" (mocking quote marks intentional) that can't even copy-and-paste, a function as basic to computers as going to the bathroom is for humans. And (2) the incredibly amusing propensity of iPhone fanatics to swallow Jobs' 'it's REVOLUTIONARY!' Kool Aid hook, line and sinker.
This is why your editorial was laughed at. You're a Palm fanboy in the truest sense, and you're defending a dying platform. Reread your post and try not to chuckle at your tunnel vision.
Bosco, tunnel vision intentional. I enjoy playing the part of fanboy occasionally; it's difficult to mock idiots when you're in Serious Objective Journalism Mode.
Oh, and as for my laughable editorial... well, it generated a crapload of traffic for the site and generated a near-record amount of comments. Mission Accomplished.
Oh, and then you can double click the earbud inline microphone piece to advance to the next track on your music list. Pretty cool.
I can use A2DP to go forward and back. Wirelessly! Even cooler...
Excuse me while I go hang up a phone call with one touch while blindfolded. Because I can. :P
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
We can all argue about the merits of Palm V Treo but in the end the market will decide and we will see if The Fooleo and this new piece of chit is as desirable as the iPhone. I got a feeling these will go the way of the Lifedrive.
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
Oh dear God, don't you dare compare your editorial to some of the brilliant articles written on this site in the past.
abosco, I'd like to introduce you to a concept named "humor", defined in the dictionary as:
1. a comic, absurd, or incongruous quality causing amusement
In this case, it's (1) Foo accusing Palm OS of the being most "the most cerebrally primitive (and dead) mobile platform on the market". When he has a "handheld computer" (mocking quote marks intentional) that can't even copy-and-paste, a function as basic to computers as going to the bathroom is for humans. And (2) the incredibly amusing propensity of iPhone fanatics to swallow Jobs' 'it's REVOLUTIONARY!' Kool Aid hook, line and sinker.
Number one, don't teach me about humor. After that "Volvo driver" comment, I'm not so sure you have any at all.
Number two, the iPhone is far from perfect. But dear God, the Treos you keep defending are even further from perfect. So right now, I can't copy and paste crap. It's a pain in the ass and it would come in handy sometime. But what happens when you need to load a big webpage, Tim? Sit there, waiting for it to load? Can't look at your calendar in the meantime? Or read a few messages?
So coming from someone who always touts how much work you can get done on the Treo, tell me how that makes you more productive. Please, tell me how not having true multitasking helps the Treo with productivity. I'm dying to know.
-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
There is a saying:
Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It can't be done and it only annoys the pig.
This goes double for mentally-retarded pigs.
Savvy?
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
What's up with the other hand?? LOL!
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
Bosco:
Oh dear God, don't you dare compare your editorial to some of the brilliant articles written on this site in the past.
I didn't. Just stated the fact that it was quite popular. And provided me with an endless supply of laughs...
Number one, don't teach me about humor. After that "Volvo driver" comment, I'm not so sure you have any at all.
Let me guess: Volvo driver? :P
So coming from someone who always touts how much work you can get done on the Treo, tell me how that makes you more productive. Please, tell me how not having true multitasking helps the Treo with productivity. I'm dying to know.
It doesn't, and it's quite a severe flaw in creaky ol' Garnet. But they who live in iPhones, I mean, glass houses, should not throw stones...
Mike:
Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It can't be done and it only annoys the pig.
This goes double for mentally-retarded pigs.
Evidently I'm going to have step down a level! Dearest Mike: go **** yourself. You appear to sorely be in need of it.
jca666us:
God only knows why freakout is so overly concerned about one-handed operation of the Treo?
What's up with the other hand?? LOL!
I'm masturbating with it, jca, as I read your hot posts. Call me, baby.
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
>Uh-oh. The iPhone cheer squad has gotten their panties in a twist again. Here, let
>me help you with those ladies:
>jca666us:
>God only knows why freakout is so overly concerned about one-handed operation of
>the Treo? What's up with the other hand?? LOL!
>I'm masturbating with it, jca, as I read your hot posts. Call me, baby.
Freak, take your meds and a cold shower - I realize being confronted with the inferiority of the Treo and Palm OS on all fronts is too much for your fragile ego to bear.
Look, the Treo is an antiquated dinosaur...it's OK...really!
For your own sake, please reailze that it's not the end of the world - it's just the end of YOUR world!
Can 800p change SS Palmtanic's course?
Clearly Palm can do no right as far as you guys are concerned. I can not recall the last time I read any kind of positive comment from the vast majority of you regulars. This begs the question, why do you keep coming back and posting the same complaints over and over?
When you're standing on the deck of the Titantic watching it steam full speed ahead towards the iceberg it makes sense to scream at the top of your voice hoping the captain will wake up from his drunken stupor and avert disaster. It doesn't make sense to start saying, "oh look at those pretty icebergs".
The regulars here are passengers on board SS Palmtanic, they've invested a lot in Palm time, software and hardware. Many have already bailed overboard into the jaws of the WinMobile sharks but some still cling on in the hope Palmtanic will avoid the icebergs of WinMobile, Symbian, Nokia and HTC. It's scary having to leave your Palm baggage behind and swim in the cold shark infested smartphone waters, it's better for Palmtanic to change course and weave around the bergs. All the weaving may leave the passengers feeling sick, one or two may fall overboard but it's better than Palmtanic smashing into the icebergs leaving no choice but to swim with the WinMobile/Symbian sharks.
This Treo 800p appears to bring nothing new to the table, it's tantamount to repainting the bow decks of the Palmtanic in the hope the pretty colours will distract the passengers from the looming icebergs dead ahead.
As opposed to burning Palm at every turn, should they not get credit for trying to expand the niche smartphone market. If the phone has not IR, no expansion and bluetooth and is sold for $100, I think could sell well even though it would not interest me at all.
Palm is in no position to expand the smartphone market as now even the dumbphones have surpassed what the Treo offers, nevermind other smartphones.
That's why this 800p won't sell internationally assuming it's yet another Treo with no wi-fi and no 3G. In the UK it's possible to get a dumbphone with Bluetooth for $100. I imagine it's much the same for Europe and Asia too.
Now how dumb is that, the so called smartphone Treo which offers less than a dumbphone?
Just compare a Treo with the Sony Ericsson W880i. It's a dumbphone yet it comes with 3G, two cameras (2MP & videocall) email, web browser and 1 GB memory card to use it as a Walkman despite being as slim, if not slimmer than a Treo battery!!! These W880 are free on contract in the UK.
It's unsurprising that Treos aren't doing well internationally as they simply don't offer anything new or better to what is the standard now.
Palm is turning up to the Formula One race with a Model T Ford.
Palm has been getting by on its 'established name' in North America but even here it'll be swept away by the tidal wave of devices already flooding in as North America updates its 3G networks.
The only unique feature Palm has to offer is the Palm OS. There's now nothing which makes Palm distinctive from any other smartphone maker now that Palm/Garnet OS is no longer fit for purpose.
Thank goodness Styletap offers the lifeboat to we Palmtanic passengers still clinging on to some hope...
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
The only unique feature Palm has to offer is the Palm OS. There's now nothing which makes Palm distinctive from any other smartphone maker now that Palm/Garnet OS is no longer fit for purpose.Thank goodness Styletap offers the lifeboat to we Palmtanic passengers still clinging on to some hope...
Yes, Styletap might just give me a way to use a few critical apps on another platform if I have to go there. But WinMob would not be my first choice of OS's. Hmm, maybe there is some reason to keep one eye on ACCESS. Technically they still do own the code that runs my apps.
You may have been including it in your "Palm distinctive" point, but an equally important "feature" I think Palm offers me is the collection of third-party apps I've put together. It makes considering another platform a dreadful thought.
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
I presume Palm is busy trying to graft Palm OS onto Linux but that leaves me wondering why they see Access Linux Platform as being so unattractive.
It seems that ALP will be the more likely future for all of us with Palm OS devices. It's conceivable that Palm will fade away as a company but Palm OS will continue thanks to ACCESS. Orange has made a a strong commitment to ALP and no doubt this will soon bear the fruit of ALP devices with Garnet.
I'm now feeling a bit more optimistic but it looks as if I'll have to swim with the WinMob sharks with a Styletap lifejacket until 2008 at least.
I find it quite tragic that there are people here who think that a cut down Treo will save Palm's bacon. Maybe just maybe in North America but certainly not in the rest of the world. People who suggest that are out of touch with what the dumbphones can do now, the division line between them and smartphones has definitely become very blurred, for example there are several candy bar style phones that come with wi-fi now.
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
"does Styletap actually have a license to use Garnet OS or has it reverse engineered Palm OS"? I suspect the later.
I believe you are correct in suspecting the latter. I never heard anything about them licensing anything from Palm/PalmSource.
The last time I looked at their compatibility list, I didn't find a most of my "necessary" third-party apps. That doesn't mean they won't work, just that they haven't been verified to work. Besides, I really don't want a WinMob machine anyway.
But I'm not really convinced Access is the future. I'm still hoping Palm is going to pull off something, even if it is with their dying breath. But it's the kind of hope a kid has at Christmas when he asked for a bike and the biggest gift under the tree is the size of a baseball.
I either want a new PDA with all the features back (TX2 if you will) or a large screened, keyboardless Treo (480x320 minimum). If either of those shows up in the near future, I figure it'll hold me over until the "other" Linux smartphones have got enough traction and apps to make them realistic. Who knows, that might even be Access.
Of course the ultimate dream is that Palm actually stages a huge comeback and astounds us all! But that's got about as much chance of happening as the Cubbies winning the world series. (Yeah, I used to live in Chicago; yeah, I'm a Cubs fan.)
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
When you're standing on the deck of the Titantic watching it steam full speed ahead towards the iceberg it makes sense to scream at the top of your voice hoping the captain will wake up from his drunken stupor and avert disaster. It doesn't make sense to start saying, "oh look at those pretty icebergs".
I might agree that this is a reasonable reaction but some of these guys have been screaming the same thing for years and only the names of the devices have changed and are somewhat situational i.e. the T3 is now the greatest Palm device ever when it was formally a sign of all that was wrong with Palm. I also note that this hope you mention is clearly not an element of these comments.
Regarding your comment re: 'dumb' phone versus smartphone, the same criticism could be applied to the much lauded, universally praised iPhone. From what I regularly read here, it is my impression that, if Palm released their new OS tomorrow and it had all the eye candy of a more modern GUI and had true background multitasking but eliminated your ability to install apps, did not have a find function, had no ability to cut, copy or paste then the criticism of the regulars would be at a fever pitch. Heck, if Palm released a thin device like the w880i then there would be criticism of the screen size/resolution or the keyboard or the navigation or the intuitiveness of the GUI or some other issue. Even your post, in comparing apples to oranges suggests a certain level of blindness when it comes to the compromises that all of these devices entail. The Treo is not perfect nor is the iPhone nor is the w880i or the HTC Wing or the Sidekick, etc. However, each device does have their relative strengths, value and advantages. Thus this constant, repetitive bemoaning of Palm and the Palm OS serves no real purpose except maybe to re-enforce your own beliefs.
All this to say, I just wish the ration of constructive commentary to whining was greater and I did not have to sort thru so many purely negative comments (with no other purpose) to find the comments that are constructive.
In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
some of these guys have been screaming the same thing for years
Well it may be a reasonable reaction considering the slow pace of change with the Treo since Palm's aquisition of Handspring. Contrast this with the rapid development of the Treo under Handspring (from 180 to 600 in three years) and of Sony Ericsson smartphones (P800 > P900 > P910 > P990 >P1).
comparing apples to oranges suggests a certain level of blindness when it comes to the compromises that all of these devices entail. The Treo is not perfect nor is the iPhone nor is etc. However, each device does have their relative strengths, value and advantages.
You're the blind one in failing to see that the Treo 'orange' is really just another apple.
Palm markets Treos as phones which do more. What is this more that the Treos do? Palm states that it's Photos, email, web, messaging and email. But hang on, many mid to high end dumb phones you speak of offer these abilities too. So where's the Treo more? Touchscreen, well Sony Ericsson M600 has one as do several WinMob devices. Full QWERTY keyboard? Plenty of Nokias and WinMob devices with that. 3rd party apps? Again plenty of those with the Symbian and WinMob devices.
The only thing that we're then left with is the Palm OS and unfortunately in Europe and Asia that results in a Treo that does less not more, no wi-fi and no 3G.
No device is perfect but Palm's competitors appear to be making compromises in the appropriate places, responding better to customer's needs and offer a much more diverse range to meet their varying needs.
Besides how can you determine what relative strengths, values and advantages devices have without discussion? As for moaning, it's time Palm gives something truly novel for examination. Yes the iPhone has its limitations but it's novel user interface has definitely sparked debate and interest about the mobile industry.
Foleo aside, what has Palm given us in contrast this past twelve months? The same Treos from two years back but with internal antennas, extra memory and firmware the way it should have been in the first place. Just how much constructive commentary can that generate?
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
Even your post, in comparing apples to oranges suggests a certain level of blindness when it comes to the compromises that all of these devices entail. The Treo is not perfect nor is the iPhone nor is the w880i or the HTC Wing or the Sidekick, etc. However, each device does have their relative strengths, value and advantages.
Yes, each of these devices have their own strengths and weaknesses. I can certainly understand that. And it might even be helpful just to chalk it up to feature sets vs. calling it some kind of weakness.
But when Palm removes the microphone, vibrating alarm and LED from their "flagship" PDA, how would one expect "power-users" to react? (the kind of people who hang out here) These kinds of "compromises" are completely unnecessary. I should know because I now have both a mic and a vibrating alarm in my TX at a grand total parts cost of US$2 retail. It's this kind of decision making that drives people crazy and opens Palm up to criticism.
"We the people" have been suggesting/asking for a PDA-centric smartphone from Palm for how long with specs very similar to the iPhone? We truly believe it is something that should be easy for Palm to do given that they had all of the hardware, software, and know-how on board already to do it. I can not believe there was no market for such a device running the Palm OS, particularly if they had listened and delivered it years ago.
And the real problem here is that without any other company delivering Palm OS devices, there are no other options for those of us with significant investment in the platform. (I loved my HandEra and only hoped that they would have stayed in the business.) This is not about WinMob or Symbian or any other phone OS; for me it's about the Palm OS. If I wasn't committed to the Palm OS, I'd have jumped ship a long time ago. And even if I somehow ended up using a WinMob device, I wouldn't be using a Treo. Palm's hardware is not really all that "awesome". There's plenty of other, good hardware options. For me it's still about the OS that runs my apps.
So yeah, I guess I'll just keep "yelling" about it. I'm not yet ready to get off the boat, and I still have a tiny bit of hope.
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: I'm not sure who is more incompetent
They certainly do, but how many owners of these phones actually use them? That's where Palm's focus on simple, user-friendly interface design comes in. It's also how Apple so completely killed everyone in the DAP space; until the iPod came along, DAP interfaces and syncing sucked. They'll have a much tougher time of it in the phone market, where they'll be completing against several heavily established players, but the same rules apply. Hopefully, the iPhone's success will force a rethink on the part of the phone giants when it comes to UI design. Motorola, Nokia and Microsoft especially need to learn this lesson.
Palm, unfortunately, does not have Apple's marketing genius & muscle, otherwise their user-friendly devices might also be enjoying similar levels of success. As it is, they've carved out a profitable niche for themselves by focusing on the "simplicity" angle, and so long as nothing goes horribly wrong it should continue to pay off for them.
Any women in the house?
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Any women in the house?
It would be interesting to see a smartphone that isn't targeting the same male market as all the others. Such a product would probably bomb out almost universally with the narrowly self-selected group that hangs out here.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Any women in the house?
Based on my own anecdotal evidence, the most important factor is "small". I don't think this particular Treo design will be small enough. It certainly appears narrower than your standard Treo, but it still appears to have the same depth.
I think Palm's best bet in capturing the attention of the female market would be a small clamshell design. A shrunken down, colourful i500 with a few graphical enhancements could be a winner. A quick poll of my clamshell-toting 21-year-old little sister, candybar-toting Mum and clamshell-toting grandmother gets unanimous agreement.
I sincerely hope this is the brainchild of an earlier Palm designer rather than their new iPod guy, otherwise IMHO he was wasted money.
But back to original question: does PIC have a female readership that wants to chime in on this?
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
Any women in the house may be sworn to secrecy....
Reading the thread at Treocentral where Centernode have announced a new Palm beta testing opportunity (http://tinyurl.com/29jurf), the Centernode poster made a comment to the effect that they were looking for a very specific demographic. No further details, but what if that demographic was, say, cashed-up females?
And what if one of them is our spy here?
Maybe I'm crazy, but the timing is interesting. Applications for the test closed a few days ago I believe, and then these pics turn up? Coincidence? (insert X-Files theme)
RE: Any women in the house?
I assumed that was just another Viral Marketing play by PALM - get a bunch (a BUNCH) of TreoCentral Fanboys playing with "secret" devices and eager to spill the beans to The Community "ahead" of time.
There is a reason standard secrecy stuff is done on a "need to know" basis - the more that know, the more leaks there are.
The posts by some of those in that thread are humourously naive - perfect leak targets.
RE: Any women in the house?
RE: Any women in the house?
RE: Any women in the house?
Am I the only one here to think it's pathetic for a company to limit itself to at most fifty percent of the market? Yes some products by their nature will limit to one gender (sanitary towels, lipstick, skirts etc) but smartphones ?!?!?
Mobile phones are not just tools, they are personal statements--especially for women. If Palm's product designers have found that women have an interest in easier PIM/email/browsing on their phone but are put off by the male-oriented designs, why wouldn't it be a good idea for them to consider differentiating their line by adding models that appeal more to women? In other words, wouldn't it be "pathetic for a company to limit itself to at most fifty percent of the market?" ;-)
I'm inclined to agree with Tim that the ideal form factor for attracting more women to the Treo would be a clamshell. (I think a lot of men would like this, too, since flips are safe to pocket with keys and change, don't require a case or "Batman belt", are easier to operate while driving, and generally less geeky-looking.) But that isn't to say that the original Treo design couldn't be tweaked to appeal more to women.
As for the comments about the screen on this being too small, I'm guessing that the point again is to differentiate, not to move the entire Treo line to smaller screens. The word that Colligan kept repeating over and over during the last Analysts Day was "diversification." I, for example, prefer the smaller form factor and tinier screen of my Samsung i500 to that of the current Treos because the features I use most are voice, PIM and email, none of which suffer from the small screen (or even the 160x160 screen resolution). For me, smaller is better. Hopefully Palm now recognizes (belatedly) that there is another part of the market that wants nothing more than a big touchscreen display that covers the face of the phone, and will create a separate design that answers that group's desires.
Palm's best opportunity in the current market is to watch for substantial niches that fit its day-one focus on delivering simple mobile computing solutions. I think most of us here grossly underestimate the number, size, and variety of these market segments--and how much other mobility consumers differ from themselves. One of those niches is indeed the group represented on PIC and other fan sites:
* 98% male
* technophile
* Internet-addicted
* has owned multiple Palm devices, including PDAs. Probably has learned one or two versions of Graffiti
* downloads and uses lots of applications and tweaks for their devices
* relatively low opportunity cost for posting on fan sites: they are either hyper-motivated to do so, or they aren't very busy people. Just a guess, but most probably earn less than $70k/yr.
That description is the Palm user iceberg that is visible on the Internet. But it probably describes no more than about 5% of the people who buy and use Palm devices. And even less of the market that *could* consider switching to Palm for their next phone if the design was tweaked to suit their needs. It can't be said too often: the fact that you are posting or reading forums like this makes you part of a very small minority in terms of Palm's bottom line. Vocal, yes, but small.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Any women in the house?
I think Palm can pretty much forget about the youth market, the big names have made their mark and like it or loathe it, teenagers do like the brands. There's no way Palm who's currently struggling with the steady progress of the corporate/enterprise market can even hope to succeed with catering to the fast changing whims of the youth market.
It's utter lunacy for Palm to throw itself into an ever decreasing niche, if it isn't then why is it moving away from the still profitable PDA market? Even Colligan has said it outright with his emphasis on diversification, something Palm has spectacularly failed to do over the past four years and it's costing them badly.
Sony Ericsson and Nokia are spewing out every conceivable subtle variation of phone (diversity), any one of which can squash flat Palm's niche without even noticing.
That description is the Palm user iceberg that is visible on the Internet. But it probably describes no more than about 5% of the people who buy and use Palm devices... etc etc blah blah blah
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/business/worldbusiness/03nokia.html
Nokia sold 100 million phones worldwide in its last quarter alone, rhetorical question, how many phones has Palm sold in the last year
Many of the high-end phones, the Nokia 6300, the N95 and E65, showed “excellent performance, selling well in Europe
Funny these high-end phones have most of the features this vocal group of Palm users ask for (shame they don't have Palm OS)! The fact that this group is considered a very small minority in terms of Palm's bottom line speaks volumes of yourself and Palm.
RE: Any women in the house?
As blatantly sexist and (probably) ill-informed as it is to say this... It's true that they don't compare features in the same way, but they most certainly compare looks. If there's one thing women excel at, it's looking enviously (or bitchily) at other women's clothing & accessories - and the includes the ubiquitous 21st-century fashion statement that is the mobile phone.
(At least, this was very true of my ex...)
RE: Any women in the house?
Hopefully Palm now recognizes (belatedly) that there is another part of the market that wants nothing more than a big touchscreen display that covers the face of the phone, and will create a separate design that answers that group's desires.
And this is maddening! They could have done this ages ago. And I'm not yet convinced that they even think it's true. I won't be convinced until it's actually delivered. Why? Because this company's record over the past four years (has it been even longer?) has left me believing that they have an incredible capacity for ignoring the obvious and living is a state of denial.
What was Jeff's response to Ryan's question about PDA's and possible room for development? I'm starting to wonder if these guys aren't just sitting around, patting each other on the back for having created the "one and only perfect device" called a Treo (and it's "companion", the Foleo). What was that Ed said about the "computer guys" not being able to just jump into the smartphone market? Of course they couldn't, particularly because with Palm's years of experience, Palm had already created the perfect device and there is nothing more to consider. Well the "computer guys" jumped in and they did it with a phone that plenty of other people could see would be a good seller (even without being exceptionally smart, the phone that is).
Why not Palm? Why couldn't they see it?
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: Any women in the house?
I don't think there's many people who want nothing but a touchscreen except Steve Jobs, who has an obvious dislike of buttons. (I suspect he was abused by a button as a child.) How hard would it have been to put a phone button and a messaging button on the iPhone? Not very. Certainly, however, there's a big segment that doesn't want or need exposed keypads, and Palm should definitely address that.
Does this remind anyone else of the Pearl?
WTF?
Well Palm, if this IS your next installment, R.I.P. as Rim and Apple gobble away the market.
The Middle Earth
Gandalf refuse the ring of Sauron, the Lord of The Ring, but now, Gandolf accept the challenge and is trying to become The Lord of the RRRRRRRRRing.
JAJAJA..!!
Nice try Palm..
Casio B.O.S.S. -> Casio PocketViewer -> Palm IIIe -> Palm IIIc -> Tungsten T -> Tungsten T|3 -> Tungsten T|5 -> Palm T|X -> Treo 680
not that bad actually
The phone itself is actually not that bad. The changes needed is:
1 tear off the qwerty and install numpad and T9. This will slim up the phone considerable.
2 at least 3mp camera, bt 2.0 and usb 2.0
3 edge, 3g and (wifi and/or hsdpa)
4 install a top music player and sd card.
5 keep the garnet OS and keep the touch-screen AND
6 market the device as a PHONE. (garnet is too weak to be used in a smartphone with any credability, but alot of apps will be available).
7 sell it for 300-400 $
In short, get out of the ancient and outdated smartphone box.
Sidekick Sidekick Sidekick ... er, what's a Treo?
What’s Good for a Business Can Be Hard on Friends
http://tinyurl.com/3a3bpz
>>>Ms. McDowell said she followed her friends as they hopped around.
>>>In high school, she said, all her friends had the T-Mobile Sidekick — the sleek, palm-size phone with a full keypad. So she signed a two-year contract with the cellphone provider so she could send them text messages at no cost.
>>>Then in college, she said she and her friends switched to Nextel so they could “chirp” to each other on their walkie-talkie phones.
>>>Last month, she returned to T-Mobile after everybody in her circle migrated back for the new Sidekick 3.
Yep. I see Sidekicks everydamnwehere. And they're being *used* too. When I see Treos (they are fewer and fewer), they're generally... not being used except for voice.
Hey, I've seen *four* iPhones in the wild now.
RE: Sidekick Sidekick Sidekick ... er, what's a Treo?
This Zire 22 w/ cell radio will probably not be seen much, tho. Anywhere.
RE: Sidekick Sidekick Sidekick ... er, what's a Treo?
Expansys' Aussie page also has the unlocked 750 front-and-center, bearing the "Most popular" tag (for WinMob devices), although the top-selling device is the Ultra Brick O2 Flame. (http://www.expansys.com.au/)
After seeing those pics, it'll drop to 2%!
http://blogs.business2.com/apple/2007/08/a-graphic-view-.html
16% said they'll buy an iPhone
4% said Treo (that's *before* they saw these pics!)
RE: After seeing those pics, it'll drop to 2%!
Like alot of others here, I really depend on my Palm as a PDA. It functions like a secretary and has alot of resource software that makes my job easier. I'm not yet ready to bail on all my software.
This is the first phone since the Treo 180g that seems like it might be appealing to me to upgrade. The reason would be the small size. Sure the screen is teeny, but I'm usually near a PC where I could more easily use the desktop software. About 10% of the time I NEED my PDA and I'm not near the PC the little screen would suffice. Hopefully the hardware will be adequate.
It's not a move up, but would be an improvement in FF when I can dump my Razr and TX and have a passable replacement the volume of a Vx.
BTW, the Treo 180g was one of the most functional Palms ever made. Too bad they didn't improve it. The current Treos look like they evolved from a IIIc.
RE: After seeing those pics, it'll drop to 2%!
RE: After seeing those pics, it'll drop to 2%!
>the greatest movies ever made. (gag)
If quality was an indication popularity, then:
1. Palm would see steadily declining sales of the Treo.
2. Apple would have sold 500,000 iphones already.
Hmmm...
RE: After seeing those pics, it'll drop to 2%!
Palm seems to have screwed around with their Treo cash cow as much as they can, then walked away from it to hype "nonUMPC" stripped UMPCs and now this lower-end Treo clone. Well, good luck Palm - but if you're gambling that these new devices will make up for all the lost sales you had by stripping features and holding back on improvements on the 6xx/7xx series then I'd bet against you.
Of course Palm's response is always "if you don't like them then go out and build your own Treo," but honestly it's probably more likely we'll just buy the best compromise we can find from them and then sit back and evaluate what works and doesn't.
my dream PDA phone
RE: my dream PDA phone
I have one complaint on the iphone, no two. The steel body which is very appealing is slippery and is easy to slide out of hand and two being symentrical it is a little clumsy in orienting the the top or bottom, if they put some kind of nub on it so you would know what is the top it wouldn't be so awkward trying to turn it on and realizing it is upside down.
Other then that is the first device that has got me excited in years, nothing comes close to the coolness of the iPhone.
Treo 800p and Fooleo is a yawn, most interesting thinngs about watching this is how the fanboys spin it and I think like the Atari ET games that were buried in the desert, I see the same for these devices.
RE: my dream PDA phone
680 is OUTTA here!
Aside from the T|E, none of the above 3 models remained in production for Palm past a year.
The 680 has a reasonably good keyboard, a nice 320x320 LCD, a FULLSIZE SDHC slot, BT, good voice performance, etc. Its only main drawbacks are battery life and EDGE. I think that Palm's ready to kill the 680 and replace it with this white atrocity. Palm'll likely call it a 690p instead of an 800p and price it below the 680. I also suspect this is why we haven't seen any ROM updates for unlocked 680s....Palm had to replace the 650 last year and designed the 680 as a high-value interim bevice until the various permutations of the Gandolf could hit the market.
I also suspect that Palm will stick with a 1-2 Treo formfactor: this thing on the low end in various combinations of POS & WM + GSM & CDMA, with 750/755p variants for the high end.
We'd best prepare ourselves for another year of 320x320 (in two sizes) plus the usual 240x240 and then a new WM-based 320x240 formfactor (likely an enlarged/wider version of the Gandolf seen here).
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: 680 is OUTTA here!
(And I've been treating it with the utmost care too, after the last disaster! I use the jack for in-car mp3 and TomTom. On saturday night, it pulled its trick of sticking in headset mode. Fortunately, a gentle shake fixed it, but what about next time? I don't want to have to get the 680 replaced again, I just want a damn jack that doesn't crap out for no reason at all. The guy at Treotricks has yet to perform his audio jack fix on a 680, but I'm tempted to send him mine for experimentation.)
Back to the original topic: the 650 lasted what, roughly two years before being replaced by the 680? At least it seems Palm's release cycle is getting shorter.
And my new 1600mah slim battery arrived today. :D I will compare it to the stock battery and put up a short review in the next week or so, after its been through a few charge cycles.
late to the party
1. Take TX and bolt on GSM/CDMA radio
2. Remove glass/case ridge that is on all palm products
3. Add a Mobile version of Folio Linux
4. Add good software keyboard, keep graffiti.
5. Sell for $400 Subsidized.
Why is this so incredibly difficult for them?
RE: late to the party
Nearly every announcement from them for years has bewildered me. I almost have no Palm pulse remaining.
Pat Horne
RE: late to the party
Cobalt
lifedrive
foleo
Those mistakes have cost palm dearly - in the form of delayed, scrapped, and watered down products.
The palm of 2007 cannot easily produce an iPhone competitor...however I think they could assemble one from all of the failed/beta/unreleased products in their labs.
They are in desperate need of a vision...
800, 900, 500...what's in a number?
Hmmm...when is a Treo not a Treo?
[hmmm, part II - when is a 10-round article needing update!? Giggle]
RE: 800, 900, 500...what's in a number?
RE: 800, 900, 500...what's in a number?
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: 800, 900, 500...what's in a number?
It is getting kinda hard to separate HIS reality from real rumors, eh?
Lol!
Treo 800 ????
RE: Treo 800 ????
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